Pibisi podcast ei ole puhuttu, että jokin on jatko. Ei! Mitä tapahtu? Lap paremmeni rinki. Jos mä saisi valita, meidän perheen ostokset tolisturvattu. OP-Kortin tuoteturva on hyvä valinta. Se vakuuttaa korttiostokset hajoamisen varalta. Haikorttia, OP-pistefi, kautta goalt. Kortin myöntää OP-vahittasasiakkaat oi yki lipputurvan myöntää pohjola vakuutus oi. Jos mä saisi valita. Maksasin vaan niistä keikoista, jonne mä pääsen. OP-Kortin lipputurva on hyvä valinta. Se korvaa tapahtumaliputio sairastut. Kortin myöntää OP-vahittasasiakkaat oi yki lipputurvan myöntää pohjola vakuutus. Lipputurva voimassa kun ostat lipput OP-Kortin kredit ominaisuudeva. Jos mä saisi valita, jonne mä pääsen. Ja mä saisi valita, että se on tärkeä. Se on tärkeä, että se on tärkeä. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita, että se on tärkeä. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Ja, mä saisi valita. Light was, that kind of makes me wonder, how ő sell vividly he tuned forward in PCAs, as their confidence limited! All speedyly loves it, as his motivation comes out, and his life begins happening, a while before autographs start, but this is something we do have in mind. Let's see. He was taking it to custody on the scene, once the shooter was named, people quickly started digging online and found an anonymous Twitter account that in 2023 posted one tweet, this is the only tweet that this account has posted, and it just says "call out" the name of the shooter. Unarguably, that's weird. It's pretty weird. The conspiracy theory came about that a time traveler was warning us about this attack. That's maintenance. What? Sorry, a time traveler posted this. What part of this is confusing? The time traveler went back to 2023 to warn people about this shooting, via the medium of the. If I was a time traveler going back to 2023, there would be things I would do first. I think. I would just have more of a plan. If I got my hands on time travel technology, I wouldn't get back. I was like, "Wow, I didn't think about this. I guess I'll tweet this guy's name and hope people catch on to it." They could have given us some more clues. The thing is with this stuff, and for anyone who's a conspiracy theorist, this is probably enraging, and we're part of it, obviously, because we're picking this apart. Could you walk us through step-by-step the conspiracy playbook? You can see it the same way every time, right? This isn't some kind of special situation. It's just another conspiracy theory. First, while it's still happening, you get the misinformation about what's actually going on. You get theories that they'll be a second gun and you get theories that there's unexploded forms. People are sharing stuff who aren't on the scene, people are seeing stuff that's being shared from the scene that isn't necessarily from a trustworthy source. Then, after the thing is over, immediately you'll start to get misidentification. So, this didn't actually happen in the White House correspondent sense, but you'll often get a suspect who's named, who everyone will find on that kind of old Facebook account or something and everyone will find. If we don't know who did it, the sleuths will go try and identify someone I am not the wrong guy. Then, the authorities will name a suspect and then people will take that name and go hog wild with it. So, in this case, this is how you got people finding that old time-travely tweet. They dig through the social media. Then, you get people in finer and finer detail going through all of the videos and going through the information. That's the playbook, basically. That's the kind of thing to expect. And it almost always brews on the same subreddits. Like this step. It'll be happening on the same subreddits. You will also see, so there's kind of below-reddit level, as it's called 4chan, something that we've talked about before. These are kind of fully anonymous forums. And in some instances, on these forums, you will get people actively trying to seed conspiracies. Not saying that's what happened with this time-travely tweet, but a lot of the time you will have people making a Photoshop fake picture of something like that, something from the past, and then spreading it. And because lots of people are on these sites, they can seed it in a way that will then make its way into the short-form video algorithmic feed ecosystem. So, I'm still wondering, why does this always happen? The thing with this stuff, and this is a term that came out of QAnon, which was this massive kind of conglomeration of conspiracy theories that I did a lot of reporting on. This idea of baking, which people who go into QAnon were called bakers, because they were following the breadcrumbs. And people love following little clues. It's kind of empowering, you know, unraveling conspiracy theories, right? There's all these massive global forces that are acting upon us and the public all the time. You can feel so powerless. Right. If you can figure stuff out, it's like you're on the inside. You know what's really happening. You're catching the bad guys. And the other is that especially on the internet, it's a way to generate attention and money, right? There's this whole ecosystem that profits off this kind of stuff, right? Yeah. What would happen if Reddit just shut down the main subreddits that usually brew these conspiracy theories? Do you think that that would significantly ameliorate the problem? Or would it actually just push this activity to other parts of the internet? This is not a factor of any particular part of the internet. It is a fundamental part of human nature. And the reason to not kind of shut this down too much is that actually, ultimately, it is not necessarily unhealthy to not trust everything that you are told by people in authority. Right? Like that is not in and of itself a bad instinct. AI is going to make this kind of thing much harder that that's going to throw us a span of at least what? It's easier to produce this information quicker. Yeah. You know. Well, I think the thing to keep in mind here is way more nefarious and convoluted conspiracy theories than this one have happened and turned out to be real. Like it's not like this sort of thing is unimaginable. But every single time, every time without exception that something bad and shocking happens, there will be all these conspiracy theories picking it apart and telling you about how it's some kind of master plan and nothing is real. So I think it's worth understanding what the tropes are because if you start to notice, well, this is just the same thing every time. That's a useful tool to help sort out whether things are actually truly bizarre or whether just like every real real world of that, there's something odd if you look too closely at it. Yeah.
Salli! Tapahtuipa kerrnetää, pessimisti, optimisti ja saletisti, suunnittelivat tapasiltaa. Ihan ihan sillä kävi, että saletisti onnistui. Salletisti onnistu, salen! Kaiset eri kahvit, mikä ihan alausse? Sää hengetää ja uuhutaan eskeksi huolet ja hommat. Sillä mielivirkistyy ja sydärkevene ja kuulejaukkaimat jutut. Tai saa vain hetken olla ja nauttia. Arkea ikää kaikki ja se on hyvä niin. Elavena täyttä elä. Sitten saa, että olen vain kuitenkin pelkkujaa, että olen kuitenkin. Tämä on tärkein mulla on tärkein. Tämä ei ole tärkein mulla, mutta ei ole tärkein mulla. Se on ollut tekevät sääntä täyttä. Tämä on tärkein mulla, että mulla on tärkein mulla. Tämä on tärkein mulla. Se on ollut tekevät sääntä. Sitten saa, että olen vain kuitenkin pelkkujaa. Tämä on tärkein mulla, että olen vain kuitenkin pelkkujaa. свою reikkiaования. Elil את sulooking. Hiesin näiden― ois ollaan maailman valtauna… Olemassa onhto työsäistää eager – luittaa sitä ja eivät sanotaan. Nyt se eiаль niikka käyttävää. Se on seura� kova. Tämä ei k Leader_Gus, se prioritettäisi vastaよねensä positemmin. Tämä ei ole saadaan oleva, että se on yksi työsäistöä. Tämä ei ole sitä, että mukaan erityisesti. Meta ei ole suurin muistaa. Nyt ei ole kertaa. Kyllä se on seuraavaksi. Se ei ole kertaa, koska se ei ole kertaa. Se ei ole kertaa, mutta se on yksi työsäistöä. Mutta se on yksi työsäistö, se on yksi työsäistö. Se on yksi työsäistö, mutta se on yksi työsäistö. Mutta tämä on seuraavaksi.
caveat to this whole enterprise is that is meta actually going to successfully create the white collar worker probably not because it turns out that a lot of work is really complicated. Darren Asimoglu, this institute professor at MIT who won the Nobel Prize for Economics, she always points out that in Silicon Valley there's this ideology that all aspects of work are kind of computable and in the end robots would actually do every aspect of work better than a human as long as we just train it on the right data. But when you look at the reality of production, there's a lot of things that are not computable like there's a lot of social emotional relationship, change management, like leadership skills involved in things and like dealing with surprising occurrences, dealing with just like the messiness of the world. And it turns out that actually AI automated systems are really not that good at that. Humans are particularly good at that. And so there is this big question of even with a sheer amount of skilled data for doing mouse movements, yeah sure maybe the AI agent will finally learn how to click a bunch of buttons and navigate dropdown menus. But is that sufficient enough to truly replace all forms of work? And Darren Asimoglu's answer is no, it's not. And what's interesting, that does not mean that there won't be potentially big layoffs in the near future due to the orientation of the AI industry in this direction. I mean, this scoop came out simultaneously with meta also publicly announcing that they are laying off 8,000 employees and are going to leave 6,000 job openings vacant. They are not going to actually hire for them. And I think most people would assume, oh my god, meta is successfully automating all this work away. And that is why they're not hiring these employees. But it's actually a little bit more nuanced than that. They are making a future bet that based on their current investments, they will be able to eventually automate that work away. And they kind of need, they're under a lot of pressure to cut costs now. So they're just going to lay off those workers and not hire those workers immediately. And the reason they're under that pressure is because they're spending $135 billion this year on building out AI infrastructure. This is kind of a little case study for how other companies are going to operate. A lot of other companies are going to see the AI industry orienting towards trying to automate more and more work. And they, as consumers of those AI technologies, are then going to think, huh, well maybe I can also make a future bet that eventually these AI tools are going to help me automate away most of the work that my employees are doing right now. But I kind of need a cut costs now to be more competitive. So let me just do the layoffs and slow down hiring in the present. Well, the Wall Street Journal just reported that in March alone, the tech industry laid off 45,800 workers, right? Like layoffs, layoffs, layoffs, we've been hearing every month another company. And not just in the tech industry, like across other parts of the economy too. I think it is fair to say in the tech industry that layoffs are happening because of AI. But it isn't necessarily because jobs are being replaced by AI. It's because they are spending so much money invests like an amount of money that like it's so large that the human mind cannot wrap itself around numbers this big. That's how many dollars are being spent on this stuff. And on top of that, we have just exited this period where especially for the tech industry, money was free, right? Interest rates were really low, advertising on the internet was just like it's like they had their own mint and they were just making cash. Everything has tightened up. And now they have to live in the real world and they were probably really overstaffed. People are, you know, being let go because the companies now suddenly have to act like real businesses and not like infinite money machines. Yeah, obviously this is pretty confusing. There's some things should we be worried about losing our jobs because the AI is too good. Should we be worried about losing our jobs because the companies think it's too good, but it's not should be worried about privacy because they're trying to create, you know, should we be worried? Can help us sort through this like we need a we need a guide here. Yes, we should be worried. Okay, oh good. Okay, great. But we're not sure exactly what we should be worried about. We don't know how worried you should be. Have a baseline. I mean, they're trying to create a tool that will do people's jobs ostensibly because that will be cheaper than a real person and you'll pay meta instead of paying an employee if you're some random company. It is not at all a given that this will succeed, that it will be able to do your job and that this is going to be a huge problem. But it is certainly something to pay attention to and it's worth understanding that that is the goal of this industry. Like if they could make us all get fired and hire metabots instead of people, that would be a huge victory and they are trying to bring that world into fruition. And of course, this topic is hugely important and very complex. So we will definitely return to the topic of how AI is going to impact work and labor in the future. All right, let's shift away from the world of work here. Used to be that great writing was a sign of competency that you wanted everything you typed out to be perfect and look just right. And then we got all these tools that will do the writing for us that are trained on perfect grammar who get every word, every punctuation mark exactly correct. They use fancy elaborate language. It makes everything perfect and smooth to the point that now good writing is suspect. And last week a new tool came out. It's a Chrome extension. Like you can add this little app to your browser. And it will add typos and grammar mistakes to your email on purpose to make it look like you are a real flawed human being. And I think there's a couple of reasons this is interesting, but one of them is like we've reached this point where using AI is now like a mark of cane, right? Like people don't want to be seen as using it word. First, it was like, oh, you have to you need to learn how to be perfect and optimize everyone's got to get on AI now. It's like in a lot of corners of our society, it's become like a shameful thing. And I think people are trying to hide the fact that they are using AI. And this new tool is here to help you. It's called sincerely was made by again, Ben Horowitz. It's a take on grammarly. You know, it's like this app you can add that will like make your writing perfect. So this is this is the opposite of that. He said this was a very useful tool for him. You had it to Chrome. You can tweak your writing. He built it using clawed the AI made by anthropics. So it's like AI all the way down. So hide your use of AI using AI. Yeah. He kind of made this as a joke. He said he like didn't really, you know, it's supposed to be funny. It's cutesy. You could I think it costs like five dollars or something for 99. He said he's not really trying to make money. He's he's trying to make a point here. I have to say when I first heard of this, I was like, so we basically got a bunch of AI Slop and now we're just going to get AI Slop with typos. Right. It's like, yeah, I mean, you know, I would not expect that this is going to become a regular thing that like everybody's going to start doing this like adding little mistakes to their writing. But the fact that this struck such a nerve, a reporter business insider named Katie and Toppillets wrote a piece about this. I think it says something about the the current place that AI has in our society and our reaction to it. I mean, here's a question for you guys, right? I think this is an experience we're all having now. You're corigning around the internet and you encounter a piece of writing in particular. This happens with videos too, but you kind of a piece of writing and it kind of you realize, oh, this sort of looks or sounds like it was written by AI. How do you guys react to that? You're reading something, you're enjoying it and then you realize maybe it's AI. How does that make you feel? Generally speaking, when I'm reading something and I'm reading it because I like it is because I am already aware of and know the creates it, right? Like, I subscribe to a whole bunch of media. It's quite weird to me that I'm reading something for its writing and not have kind of by definition done a little bit of background. What about a tweet, right? This helps me all the time. I'm looking at social media. I see a piece of, I'm like, listen along or I'm reading something. I'm interested and then I go, oh, wait a minute. This sounds like I have to do it. This, this, this fruit level island does not seem entirely on the level. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's real. I think there's sort of a spectrum in how people actually use AI to write. Right? Like, there's the people who just generate the whole thing and just post it exactly as is. And I've definitely encountered so many of this post on LinkedIn.
and especially LinkedIn is. (laughing) - There's kinda a lot of time on LinkedIn. I think this is not good for your soul. - I know, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. - You talk about that, yeah, that's the whole other topic. - Yeah, it's the whole other topic. - On Amazon LinkedIn. And it is really embarrassing, but yeah, it is just a cesspit of AI-generated posts. So there's that, but then there's like, people who use AI to structure their thoughts. And then there's like, people who've written the thing, especially English as a second language people, and then use AI to clean up the grammar. And I've been having these huge discussions with people about this because I definitely have an aversion to seeing any kind of AI-generated writing on any level of this spectrum, because it, there's just this little likeic feeling that starts to kind of creep up where I'm like, "Oh, I wish I was spending my time instead "writing, reading, human writing." But then like, I was talking with this professor at MIT, who was saying that she kind of had this similar reaction to, especially when it came to like emails. And then she kind of realized that she might be discriminating against English as a second language speakers who might have a tendency to use AI more to clean up their grammar. And it really made me pause and think about whether I should then adjust my reaction when I see this stuff. People probably, I'm sure, have really strong feelings about this. No, it's outrageous. Never use AI. There's some people who truly think it, like, using it at all is an immoral act. All I know is the way I react to it. It's just like, ugh, like it just feels gross. I don't know that I'm right in feeling that way. It's just my natural reaction. - Yeah, you kind of feel a little bit cheated. - Yeah, and there's maybe also, you know, if there's a news reporter who, the tweet by them, the post-point them is AI-generated. It's also what are the corners? Are they using AI to cut? Like it's sort of my greatest trust in everything they're doing, I think, quite rightly so. - I mean, yeah, it's like a shortcut machine. And even if it's not a lack of trust, it's just like, you know, I thought I was listening to a guy and what I'm listening to is like, the product of a prompt that I could have entered myself. Like, I can just go talk to chat GPT if I wanna hear what chat GPT thinks about something. - Right. - However we should feel about this, there's this trend that has spread across our whole society which I think is like a craving for imperfection. I've been reading a lot about this new thing that's going on with restaurants, especially like, you know, in major cities in New York, at London and Los Angeles, where like the menu will be scribbled on the wall in like intentionally bad handwriting or like they'll just hand you a little piece of paper because what we're getting through the mainstream has become so polished and smooth that now the edge is a sign of something human and something that people are looking for. It's a very weird moment where years ago, it was the exact opposite that it's like two human, it's lazy, we don't wanna see people who aren't putting in the effort to make things look perfect. Now the fact that it's bad and not as good as it could be is a sign that you put more effort into it because you did it yourself. - I kind of love it to be honest. I'm all for returning back to these kinds of much more human handcrafted things. It's nice to know that people are taking that extra care. It's kind of like, you know, sending your friend an email versus sending them a handwritten note. It's like so special now. - We should start sending the podcast to people in writing. (laughing) - On to cassettes. - That's what I get. - It's like, "Pandemic, and. " - "Pandemic, and. " (laughing) - But if it can be faked, you know, if there's an AI that can stop putting out plausible handwritten notes, then there'll be a backover on that backlash. - There's a really interesting phenomenon that's happening where people are so, they find AI so distasteful that people are getting accused of using AI when they're not, and it's like getting them in trouble. There's this guy who makes videos, he's like a sculptor, and he calls himself Argi Loso. He'll take like a block of clay and with like a couple movements of his thumbs and fingers, it happens so quickly it becomes this just like unbelievably realistic face. And he's so good at it, and he does it so quickly that people are now in his comments accusing him of using AI. It's like ruining his reputation. And all these experts have chimed in, these like AI video guys have chimed in and say like, "No, he is definitely not using AI. These are real videos, he's really doing it." But it's like hurting this real person's reputation. It's this really strange place to be. I mean, I was talking to somebody recently about how they were doing some work, I think for university, and they turned in NSA and like got spit back at them, saying that it was AI, it was too perfect. And they went in and tried to mess up their own like true real human output to make it worse in order to not get flagged incorrectly by AI detectors, which we can get into this on another episode. That stuff like does not work, it's not full proof, you should not be relying on it. But like, yeah, it's like we're all dealing with this capture all the time now that constantly as we move through the world, we've got to prove that we're not a robot and we're actually doing real stuff. It's this weird double-edged sword. - Taking a step back. - Right, like the 35,000 view on this is that the fact that it's cool on like this implies people don't like AI. they don't like having a sub set of people. The large subset of people don't like realizing that they have been tricked when they feel tricked, when they discover that they're reading something by AA, to the point where something, the entire aim of which is to hide that AI has been involved, that shame is involved in the fact that AI is being used to make something has gotten this big this fast. It is the sign of a cultural backlash. That's where we're talking about it. - I would love to hear from people, right? Like I think there's, for a lot of us, like using AI kind of feels shameful in certain contexts. Like I've heard people tell me that they like, they feel like it's the secret. I would love to know if you're out there and you're using one of these tools and like you're putting in extra effort to hide it from the people who are receiving what you're producing. They'd be really interesting to hear those stories. - Well, good thing we're not perfect because-- - We'll never get accused of being-- - Yeah, right. - We made a mistake last week. - On our last episode, we were talking about how Apple CEO Tim Cook stepping down. And I mentioned that he had grown the company to be the most valuable business on earth at $4 trillion. That was true for a long time. But of course, Nvidia is the most valuable. And thanks to John, who's a professor from Texas who got in touch and pointed that out. That shows we are listening to all of your responses. We read all the emails and hands up. We agreed that one up. If you are very mad at us, send us an email and we will read it and we'll be so sorry. All I want to do is make you happy. Join us next week. If you're in the UK, you can listen on BBC Sounds. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Or search for the Interface Podcast on YouTube. If you want to get in touch with us, you can email at
[email protected] or WhatsApp us on plus 444-333-207-2472. You can also find us on social media, links and the show notes.
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