Why Everyone's Reading Clothing Labels Again

Introducing Meta Glasses. You have questions? They've got answers. Hey, Meta. What's the capital of Peru? Lima. How do you say, where's the restroom in Spanish? Don de Salvano. Hey, Meta. Is a hot dog a sandwich? Technically no. Spiritually? Yes. Hey, Meta. What should I do with my life? That's one of life's biggest questions. What do you think? Ask anything with the new Meta Glasses. Hello and welcome to the debris from the business of fashion, where each week we delve into our most popular B.O.F. professional stories with the correspondence who created them. I'm Senior Correspondent, Shina Butler-Young. Somewhere between the fitting room and the checkout, a lot of shoppers now do the same thing. They flip the tag, not to look at the size or even the price, but for the fabric content. Consumers want to know what they're dealing with. Is it cotton, polyester, elastane? A few years ago, that was a niche habit. Now, it might just decide whether you buy the item of clothing at all. Gap thought out the hard way this month when it re-released its beloved 90s happy striped knit. It was an instant nostalgia hit, right up until people read the label. 80% polyester, 20% elastane. Within days, the comment section had filed a gap classic somewhere next to she in. That reaction isn't really about one knit top. Searches for natural fiber are up over 100% in five years, suggesting this isn't just a niche sustainability debate anymore. Shoppers are concerned about skin, health, microplastics, and whether synthetic has quietly become a dirty word. So today, I'm joined by sustainability reporter, Shiazah Wallet, to understand what's actually driving the run on natural fibers. And if this industry can give people what they're suddenly demanding, Shiazah, welcome back to the debrief. Thanks for having me, Shiazah. I'm so excited to chat about this. Okay, so consumers seem to have developed an obsession with natural fibers. And then these conversations around fiber composition have now moved well beyond these niche sustainability circles. Shiazah, when did you first realize that this was becoming more than a sustainability conversation? What changed? I feel like the realization started to come up in the last six months more than ever before. I think what started happening is people just instead of just talking about durability and value being like, "Oh, this clothe that I have didn't last me as long so I want something better material," is starting going more into this health conversation, which we weren't just seeing affect clothing, we're seeing it affect every part of our lives. As you said in the introduction, now it is going to become more informed and aware about every aspect of what they're consuming. And I think clothes were kind of this final frontier for that. People already care about what they're ingesting with food, whether they're putting on their skin and clothing kind of became this item that not as many people were thinking about. Obviously, we're also seeing this happening in conjunction to the wellness trend. I wrote a story a couple of months ago that how sustainability brands are changing their marketing and positioning on wellness. And it felt like all this was kind of coming together at the same time. It felt like this is more than just sustainability because sustainability means both for the people and the planet. And it feels like the average consumer is not really thinking about the planet as far as a lot of our sources and the story talked about it's far away from them. But it's become a lot about how people can live better lives. And I think that's when I started to become more than just about sustainability. You say six months ago, was there like a tipping point or a headline or a moment when you felt or you saw like it's hitting fashion in a new way? And I asked this because I've heard a lot probably in the last year or two around microplastics and like it's in everything we eat. And now if it's in your clothing and I've heard like murmurings of that for a while. And I don't remember when it became a big deal when I started to think, oh, wait a minute, like is this denim jacket containing any microplastics? Was there a headline or was it just this culmination after a couple years of chatter? I think it's interesting because I don't think the six months has been like there was a headline in this last six month that really blew things up. I think it is very much a culmination. But particularly the microplastics conversation, I think it's just being propelled and it's just increased so much more in the last two to three years. And that's partially because of legislation and advertisement bands that you're seeing. It's largely because of you know, I suppose when you're going watching documentaries or seeing something on the street, you see ads that are showing that you know our stuff is organic and better. So I think it's kind of been this compounding effect over the last two to three years where you're seeing all these moving parts around healthier like retail items. You know, and I think that's kind of what we're seeing fashion adopt to now and fashion consumers and troopers are responding to. We'll probably unpack this a little bit more later. So I'm asking prematurely in many ways, but do you feel like it represents a genuine shift in consumer behavior? Or does it feel like the next wellness thing? That's what I can't tell the difference between like when you started reporting this where you're like, this deserves a story now because there's a shift. Or did you think here's another blip in a series of events that keep happening in the world of sustainability? I think this is a serious shift and I think I feel that I've felt that in my reporting very significantly. And this one was a great example of that because I don't think health is a trend for people, you know. And I think when that entered the conversation and became really clear that people are willing to pay a premium for this stuff like natural fibers, what's healthier for them, what's wellness, what's clean. And the words no longer sustainability and premium I feel like. So I don't think this is a trend at all. I think it would have been a trend if it was like, you know, a certain type of clothing in the summer. But even in that space, we're seeing a complete shift and we'll get into this deeper as we talk about the different kind of levers that are leading people to shift towards natural fibers. But I think it's anything but a trend in this point. And that's something that we wanted to really get in this story right that this is more than a trend. And also it seems like different generations are arriving at their motivations for different reasons like in reading your story you talked about some that resonated with me as a millennial, which is that a lot of it for us is probably around what we buy for our children. I think it's health across each generation, but health and as parents, it seems to be a big motivator for millennials talk a little bit about how it's different for Gen Z, you know, the environmental things seems to be important. Gen X has its own motivations. How are they different. I think this was this is a really interesting point that a couple of sources for the story brought up that I'm not really myself even thought about it happened to be the fact that a lot of younger shoppers are driven by the value that they're signaling. And so for them, it's a lot about, you know, climate change, like how can we be better citizens and how can we shop better for that. And you know, I will say that the fashion industry historically has put the onus of making a difference on consumers. And I feel like right now the younger shoppers are carrying that burden because people who are older, like whether you have millennials or like, you know, Gen X, I think the idea is like, you know, how can I live a better life. You're going to signal that you're trying to do something better for the world. I mean, some people are that you have those sustainability brand consumers who want that regenerally grown cotton, you know, shirt and willing to pay $800 for it. And I think in general to your point, you know, like I think the mature consumer bracket, if you will, they're trying to look at, you know, how can I live a healthier, better life. And it's more of a living standard question that it's for let's say a younger shopper who's still kind of maybe has the energy and also the mindset that yeah, I want to have good quality stuff. But I also want to think about what this means at a more distant kind of supply chain level, I think. That is not to say this is the majority of consumers we're still looking at, you know, people who are very decisively what they buy, but I think what's interesting about this trend is that you're seeing it across different age brackets, but the end result is this shift, right. So I think that's what's the most interesting part. I clocked being lumped into the older demographic about three different times, I just let the record reflect on. So I want to talk a little bit because you mentioned, you know, that there is, or you infer that there's a brand opportunity here when you talk about people being willing to pay a premium regardless of their motivation. So you have these brands like Reformation, Dillon, Hacked, or just a few examples that are really leaning into it. Obviously, a more meaningful lean in that what we saw 15, 20 years ago, like these brands have new information, there's new supply chain changes that make them do this a little more effectively, you know, beyond the eco friendly labeling of it all, the green washing of it all. And then, and then gap learned the hard way, something else, right, like this, this iconic net being criticized on social media because it of the swap out. So I want to double click on the gap a little bit. What were people saying and how did how long did it take for it to bubble up on social media because obviously there's a campaign that goes out on social media, people go to the store and they shop and they think to come back and read the label and then go comment like help us picture what happened and what people were saying. Yeah, I mean, I think the response was quite quick actually because it released like I want to say early June and I think in a week it was in stores and I think it started off with some tick tock commentary where people were showing the labels, but I think what started really good interaction is that comparisons to fast fashion is like, you know, what am I praying for here? You know, just to remind everyone like this item, this happy strap 90 item, it was in collaboration with Zach Posen, who's kind of, you know, come into gap and really change gaps game like, you know, it's doing really well as a business after a long time. So the disappointment was doubled down on by the fact that this is supposed to be like a premium level of gap, right, you know, it's like above $100 is dresses not like $40 or something. And so people I think are associating now price with natural fiber, which I found really. interesting. I think that's what this instance really doubled down on, which is this idea that, you know, I only want to pay a higher price when something is cleaner, better, healthier for me. And that's quite interesting because, you know, historically, at leisure or active, where has been more synthetic driven because of its performance qualities. And so people working out who care about their health and wellness, they were probably wearing more polyester at some point in time. I would argue, majority still definitely wear some forms of synthetics because that's what the majority of the market offers when it comes to health and wellness. So I think that was really what that this occasion and this event really highlighted. It's like people's, I guess, desire and demand for something that's better for them when they're paying a higher price. Do you see this is a sign that sustainability at long last can be a competitive advantage? I mean, that's my view. I'm not a sustainability reporter, but I as someone that I remember my first story about sustainability, probably about a decade ago. And there was a lot of excitement. And I remember brands saying, you know, it's like some elements of fashion or like a commodity. It's like coffee or, you know, or corn or whatever other commodities exist. And when there's been things are so similar, our advantage is going to be that we have the more sustainable version of that thing. And it didn't really come to bear. I mean, for many different reasons. But with this new obsession with natural fiber, is it now more likely that brands could really trade on this idea that they are, you know, that they have better materials? Does it feel more real? I think this is a two-pronged answer, actually, because I think, unfortunately, the reality is some brands are going to bank on this moment and just maybe make some shifts and have more cotton and linen in their in their material makeup or in their offerings and maybe especially in the summertime when the weather is so hot, which is something we haven't gotten into. But that's been a big driver, especially in the summer months when we've looked at the data of when people are searching for natural fibers that's pulling people towards them. I think most brands, and I'm talking about like in the average consumer brands, like, you know, high street brands, I think the sad reality is that they'll probably make a lot of shift and have more items that are going to be natural. But that doesn't mean that that's going to be sustainable per se because the reality is natural does mean that it might have a higher carbon footprint or material footprint, depending on how it's grown. And that's kind of been one of the biggest reasons that we see so much impact on cotton prices when the climate's worse. And there's a clean climate impacts on agriculture and farming. And it's all of it's very much interconnected. On the other hand, to answer your question about, you know, is sustainability going to become this kind of winning moment for certain brands or able to really pull this off? I think for the brands have always been committed to sustainability. This is going to become a big driver of consumers coming to them. So that's something actually touched on on the wellness story. It's like brands can see the consumers want this healthier item. And the ones who've always been committed to kind of having their supply chain be clean, knowing about sustainability from in the more circular way. I think they might have a competitive advantage in that sense because people will go to them knowing 100% for sure that what I'm getting here is natural. But that is not to say that other brands won't bank on it, but whether or not that'll be good for, you know, sustainable fashion, I think is is an open question. And I think most of us report on it, think that it is just going to be this moment where the broader fashion industry latches on to this as a capitalistic moment to be like, okay, people want this, we're going to deliver no matter what. I believe that. And you know, it's interesting for the non-sustainability reporters among us or for the uninitiated, because I find this interesting in reading your story that, you know, this definition of something being, you know, natural and that equals good because it's a lot of borrowing from health terminology. Natural equals, you know, better we've seen this with beauty as well. Exactly. Like what does it actually mean? Can you give us the too long didn't read version of why cotton wool, etc. isn't automatically more sustainable. And what what the unnatural fibers actually can do better in terms of sustainability and climate change. Right. I mean, there's a long technical answer, but the simple answer is that when you have some things that's derived from the earth or from animals. So for example, if you talk about wool, like you need to grease cows for that. And that cows emit a lot of methane and carbon dioxide when they're grazed, that immediately means that the carbon footprint of making wool to that final version that goes into like a sweater is going to be much higher than like, you know, certain synthetics. And particularly polyester, which there's just so much of like one, like let's say like one thread of polyester will have a lesser carbon footprint than like one thread of wool. And on the average scale, right, I'm not talking about recycled or anything like that. And with cotton, it requires more water for agriculture. There is like, you know, whether patterns that need to be taken into account. And if you're not growing it in a way, which is regenerative, aka, you're able to replenish the soil as you're growing the cotton, it will also have a major environmental footprint. So it's really about what we get from the earth and make it into clothes. And silk is the same silk also has a very high footprint. And it's something that sustainable brands are actually having the most difficulty navigating because getting the high level of silk in a different way is very difficult. Yeah. So anything that's derived from nature is kind of naturally has a higher environmental footprint because it's from the earth. How do you think, and I don't know whose job this is, but how do you encourage consumers to ask better questions about materials without it turning into this overly simplistic natural equals good and, you know, synthetic is bad. Is there a way that that conversation happens? Or what's your, what's your best tips if there's a brand listening and wants to do a better job and maybe not have profit be number one, okay, I'll stop. But like, you know, I'm saying is there a way? I don't know. I mean, it's tough because I do think the duty is of the brands, but at the end of the day, you know, as you mentioned, they're selling a product and they're going to try and resonate with whatever the consumer wants. So yes, I think in terms of consumers becoming better aware, I think we're already seeing them asking questions that are going to make them better form one of the stats that we shared in this story was, you know, the searches for what is visco's really or like, what is visco's rising by some 5,000% in the US over the last five years because, you know, I think whenever you hear like a non, I guess recognizable fiber, you know, whether that's visco's or whether visco's is a cellulosic fiber, by the way, it is a natural fiber, but a lot of people associate with polyester, just because it sounds, doesn't sound like cotton or linen or wool, right? So I think consumers are already asking questions about particular materials and what they, what they entail, but I think in terms of consumers being better buyers of natural, I think you would be that kind of person of toadastah ask, like, oh, is this cotton? Where is this cotton from? Or you'd be asking questions like, you know, how is this cotton sourced? And I think those can give you much clearer answers than like, oh, this thing is just cotton because that cotton could also include forced labor, which is also unsustainable, right? So we've had these problems and they're very much a reality and there's been a lot of legislations that are kind of moving in tandem. So it might be that, you know, brands actually will become more sustainable, not just because of this natural fiber demand, especially we were thinking cotton the second biggest material on our outside of polyester. There's always forced labor regulations coming into place. So it might be that both of those come together and consumers wanting more and regulations asking for better might lead brands on average to be doing better when they're providing an offering natural fiber apparel. So we'll see if that happens. I think legislation almost always will move the needle at least a little bit. And then I want to, I'm going to move on to this sort of the future sustainability, but you talked about this a little bit earlier, but I want to ask it sort of more directly because at leisure and athletic goods in particular, they use a lot of polyester. You mentioned that. Why can't brands simply get rid of polyester? Like it is more than half of what we're seeing when we go to the mall and buy clothing. Why is that probably not going away? Right. So number one is it's cheap. It's cheap. It's cheap. Like it is so cheap because it is subsidized by number one, the oil lobby, but also in general, there's just so much of it in this world. And also in terms of at leisure in particular, it's these kind of incomparable and very unique performance qualities that polyester has and synthetics have like in the 60s and 70s when it became this big innovation that could allow you to make clothing that was more malleable that would be able to be more waterproof and things like that. It created an opportunity for us to use this material across different types of clothing. So you could have a polyester shirt, but you could also have a polyester waterproof jacket. And I think that's one of the reasons that fashion can't really shake it off at the mass level, but even at the very high performance level, and I wrote a story on this a couple of months back, it's like polyesters, performance, and also malleable qualities are so unique to itself that it's very difficult to replace that in many ways. And you know, I won't discount the fact that there's a lot of innovation happening right now, especially with biomaterials. And a part of it is to do with the fact that there's a consumer interest in that, but there's also brands who want to see what the next frontier is like what can we do? How can we innovate? Those are the innovators of the world, right? But those are highly in like pilot stages or very niche brands that have done it and have put it into market, but you know, it's not like you're, you know, the store on your high street that you go and buy clothes from every day. We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this. Hey Meta. Any last minute tables for two tonight? Sure, there's a great Italian restaurant 15 minutes away. Hey Meta, where's the nearest flower shop? Five minutes away, straight down Broadway past the Bodega. Their lilies are trending on Instagram. Just saying - Hey, Meta. (whistles) Am I forgetting anything else? - How about setting a calendar reminder for next year? - Meta glasses available in more than 20 styles. - I wanna talk about the future of sustainability now. The question or the thought that kept coming in my head as I was reading your story about the natural fiber obsession was it reminded me, and I think you know where I'm gonna go, 'cause we bond over my diversity coverage and your sustainability coverage. But I was reading and I kept thinking, it feels like similar to diversity, and I watched the trajectory of that movement in fashion. It's like those human interest values driven, areas like diversity sustainability, they almost need a sidekick for people to care. Like brands had believed that they, you know, when you do a survey and you ask consumers, do you care where your clothes are made? Do you care the diverse workforce is behind the scenes, you know, of the fashion brand that you love? They almost always say yes to that, like who doesn't wanna say yes to that in a survey? I mean, hopefully. And then when they go out to shop, that's just they just don't, the leap from that perspective and that value to their wallet is very, very large. Do you feel like why this is moving now is because it has a sidekick, and that's probably a derogatory word, but that's a came to my head. Like sustainability needs a sidekick. Like it needs to, it needs to be hand in hand with health and you're like your wellness as a person or your children's wellness for people to care. It needs to be a values conversation. You know what, this cotton or wool holds up better over time for my money than the polyester thing. Like it needs something else. Is that, does that resonate with you as a sustainability reporter? - I think I agree with the sentiment that you were saying, but I think the framing actually wrote about it in the last sustainability newsletter. I wouldn't call it a sidekick as much as I would call it the realization and the actual kind of end result point where people are acting on this, is that everything is increasingly feeling interconnected in this world. And I think in terms of when we talk about help being like quote unquote sidekick, I don't think it is because I think what it is is like we have climate change exacerbating, we have people being worried about their health more ever since the pandemic. And I think all these things together is what makes people feel sustainability is more important than ever. But I think the reality is, you know, like the word sustainability is what doesn't resonate with people anymore. And so we have these new other words to fill in for it, right? And I also think it's largely about practicality, like at its heart and its core, sustainability is about what's practical and best for this world. And you know, different industries have made it so that something else, which is not sustainable, is convenient for you. So I think what's happening now is that we're returning to this reality as you know, it's getting hotter and people are literally needing to swim in the rivers to cool themselves off and that leads to fatalities. And you're kind of like, okay, I want to dress better so I'm not hot just walking everywhere. And we saw record temperatures this summer and we're probably going to see a bit more. And I think all this stuff is not really a side conversation or something that you know, is being added on for people to care about, you know, diversity and sustainability to your point. I think it's just time is showing us that what we've been pushing for is just becoming a reality for people and they're addressing it and acting on it now because it's, they're being confronted with it, you know? And I think the news that I talk about that, like, you know, I think we need to look at sustainability as this very interconnected thing. And I think now consumers are feeling it at the practical level, which is why now the industry can be told and pushed in that direction as well, like, listen, like, you know, you can't be looking at this as a one prong or umbrella solution to all these different moving parts. - Do you think the conversation then has become more sophisticated? I don't think it's become less. I kind of was thinking through this question of like, did it become more or less sophisticated? I think I can answer my own questions. It's probably more sophisticated, but I wonder, in addition to that, are consumers then now asking better questions or just different ones than they were five years ago? - I think absolutely. I think people's vocabulary around what they want has become more better informed. And also, I think people have always known how to verbalize how they feel, right? So it's like, you know, I am extremely hot. It's like 45, like, you know, degrees Celsius. And in Europe and Paris, where, you know, it's kind of like, I think even if people didn't know how to vocalize, okay, these are the kind of check boxes I want to fill for what I buy all the time because it might come off as, like, you know, Snobby or like, you know, I'm a certain type of buyer. I think people 100% know how to talk about how they're feeling and how clothes can meet that, meet them there. And I think that's what we're seeing right now, which is yes, the sense of sophistication, but also this reality where people are reacting to all these changes in a very personal and practical way. Yeah. So we're gonna do lightning round. I am going to apologize in advance because I think the first lightning round, a question that we generated might have been answered already or it might be, you'll tell me if it's stupid. You'll let me know. First lightning round question. This goes, is it natural fiber or synthetic in disguise? And I'm gonna preempt by saying you talked about this already that people might be confused, but it is indeed go for it. It is a natural fiber, but I will add nuance here that I didn't add before. It in many instances, and this is largely to do with the way labels are printed and done, which is like when something exists in a really, really small percentage, it's often deleted from labels. So like, let's say it's visco 80% and it might be that 2% of that visco might actually be synthetic. So it becomes what we call a semi-synthetic, but that's a labeling issue and that's something that issues also dealing with a lot now, which will be interesting to see how we, how a lot of customers are gonna buy something because it says 100% natural, but I think the owners of this will fall on brands. - I'm glad I asked that question. That was a very good lesson. See there you go. You learn something new every day. Second lightning round question. What active wear, a genuine evolution or just a novelty? - I think it's a general evolution. I think you see more and more across the market. And I think a lot of these bigger brands, internally and out grappling with how do we get to a bit more natural at leisure. And I think I'll say one thing, like Elastane is one of the key ingredients in at leisure and athletic performance wear. So say that you have like 100% wool workout clothing, like a bra let and a pair of leggings. It might, I mean, most of the time, even today, like I'll probably have a certain person of this Elastane, but we're seeing some major, major changes in the last in space where it's becoming biobased. And there's a particular manufacturer that's doing that work. And they work with all the biggest brands in the world, you know, from Unikeys and Adidas to your like, we lemons and stuff like that. And so I think that it will become this great shift because we're seeing that Elastane moving towards natural too. We're seeing innovation there that's growing and scaling up. - I hope you're right. And the last question. So this whole movement, is it a lasting shift in how people shop or is this 2026s version of a wellness fad? - I think this is something that's gonna last. As I said earlier, I don't think the climate's getting any cooler. I don't think that people's concerns about health are ever gonna decrease if anything. I think the more people read. And, you know, we could argue it's almost too much that people are exposed to today that makes them maybe even anxious as shoppers. And, but I would say that this is something that's gonna last. I just think it's gonna evolve in its ways where I will just mention this like microplastics, for example. We've seen so many like crazy studies come about it. You know, it's in people's placenta, that's in your brain, like all these crazy things. And then this year, a Guardian article looking at researchers said that, you know, there was kind of an over exaggeration in that study 'cause it wasn't peer reviewed to the extent that it needed to be. So there was a bit of that. So, I'll see stuff like that, that kind of tempers, the extent of knowledge that's available and what people are getting at. But I think on average, I think we're entering a very different era of how people shop, which is one where they wanna know what they put on their bodies more than ever before. I agree with you. I think we're gonna land in the middle. At some point, there are periods of over correction and then we sort of get back to the middle. I remember 20 plus years ago, that's all I'm gonna say, getting a book when I was like, you know, a little girl and it was about all the things you need to live a better life. And it was like, get all organic sheets and all these things. And I was a little girl in the Caribbean, my mom was reading this book and we laughed and we laughed at the ridiculous, and you're like, oh my, we would have to buy a whole new house to make this work. And then you fast forward 20 plus years later. And I think, I don't think we would laugh at that book, we're closer to maybe people attempting to live that way. But I imagine we're gonna have these big shifts and we're gonna be further ahead than we were when we laughed at my mom's book 20 years ago. We probably won't be leaps and bounds. That's my guess. - Yeah, I would just absolutely think that what we might see a little bit is like the commodification of people's health interests by the fashion industry. And then we'll see that, you know, Denoumont at the end. They're so smart now shoppers. They're gonna be like, okay, these people are trying to like, just sell me whatever under the guys and the framing of health and natural. So I'm gonna maybe shift towards understanding even more. But I think in any case, it's like shoppers are smarter and more aware than ever. And that's not a trend, you know what I mean? Even if the products we see might come and go. But I mean, as I said, like, I don't think this is something that's isolated to one year. I think this is a long journey that we're on. And the world is on as well. Like, you know, we're gonna see hotter summers, we're gonna see colder winters. And that's gonna translate into how people buy stuff on a practical level. And I think we're seeing it in the West now, but I mentioned this in my article from my sources, but I also seen it, you know, first hand, like in South Asia in the Middle East and hotter climates and tropical climates, you know, in the Caribbean. Like, you know, people wear our natural because it's kind of what historically has always been first of all the most available, but also the most breathable. And now we're just gonna see this happen at a more global Western scale as well. - We trust your predictions. Shiza, thank you so much for joining us today. - Thank you so much for having me. Sheenah, this was great. Please be sure to check out Shia's article why consumers are ditching polyester for natural fibers and more for reporting on sustainability at businessofashion.com. These and other stories are available to B.O.F. professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Angel Nemoff. I'm Shina Butler-Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts. [Music]