2949: Why Eating Less and Training More Is the Reason You Are Not Losing Fat

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MindPump. MindPump. With your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in history. This is MindPump. Today's episode, we helped callers. People called in and we coached them live on air, but this was after the intro. So in the intro portion today, it was 64 minutes long, we talk about fitness and muscle building and fat loss and diet. We also talk about current events, family life, and we also talk conspiracy theories sometimes. So it's a lot of fun. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in, we'll help you. Send your question to MPLifeCaller.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Juve. This is red light therapy. So if you've heard about red light therapy, it helps your skin recovery, inflammation, that it does pretty much almost anything. 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This program focuses on, you guessed it, the abs and the butt. It's 40% off. We're going to throw in muscle mommy. 15 or muscle mommy. Plus we're going to throw in two free guides. Here's how you can sign up. Go to MAPS, absandbutt.com. Use the code launch for the 40% off and all the free stuff. Here comes the show. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at MindPumpStore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to MindPumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. working out. I think she said five to six days a week. She was doing cardio on top of it, short rest periods. She was restricting calories, restricting carbohydrates, and she was trying to get pregnant. So the goal was to improve her fertility, heard one of our episodes, cut everything way down, followed a more appropriate strength training routine, took long rest periods, cut out the cardio, bumped her calories, became pregnant, had two kids, and now she's, you know, her youngest is 15 months old. This woman is eating 2,700 calories a day and following MAPS 15 and walking about 10,000 steps a day. That's the entirety of her workout. In spite of the recommendation to lose like 10 pounds. That's right. And so, and this is a common story. This is a common story where people over-diet, over-restrict, over-train, and they get in this weird place where they're like, nothing's extra five pounds or 10 pounds. I can't possibly work out more. If I eat any less, I'm going to want to kill myself. Like what is going on here? And it seems like, it seems like stopping all that and eating more would just cause a bunch of fat gain to happen. When in reality, that's exactly what many people need. They need to improve their metabolic health through the process of feeding their body properly and building some muscle and moving in a different direction. You know, we had Dr. Tina in studio yesterday and we were talking about this and I said something to her in regards to this. It's like, it's almost like when we're, when we're hammering the body like that, restricting calories, training intensely, low rest periods, you're doing all this work, right? Eating clean food. So you, you, you think that you should be seeing those yet you don't. It's almost like your, your body goes in this like protective mode of like, I'm not going to respond because of how much stress you're applying to the body. And then even when you kind of go back and you start to feed and you scale back, it still takes a few months. It still takes a lot of times at least 60 to 90 days. And you know, my theory on that is it's almost like your body doesn't trust you. It's like, you've been beating me up with these low calories, high intensity, pushing like crazy for so long that I'm scared to death of what that looks like. Okay, you're finally feeding me, letting me rest a little bit. This feels good, but I still don't trust you yet. You're going to, you're going to stay here until you've been in that place for a little while. And then it's just, it's crazy. What happens is all of a sudden, you know, and every client's different, how exactly long that takes, but typically takes about 60 to 90 days. And then all of a sudden it starts clicking. Your body can only adapt to so much stress. Um, and exercise is a stress. I remember the first time one of the first hints at this for me personally, as a trainer, I was a young trainer. Uh, so I must have been, I had to be, I wouldn't think it was 20 years old yet. Um, in fact, I know I wasn't 20 because by that time I was a general manager. So I wasn't even 20. And I had this woman that I trained twice a week. And she also did lots of the group X classes, tons of them. And she tracked her food and did all stuff. And she was middle-aged and she was like, I can't lose this extra. I had a big amount, but I just can't lose it. I remember looking at it and it didn't make sense to me as a young trainer. Cause at that point it was all about, you know, move more, eat less. I'm like, she's consistent. She's working out like crazy. She never misses a session with me. She never misses her group X classes. She's tracking her food. Her calories are low. And I don't want to bring them down any lower because at least at that point I understood, man, if we go too low, she's going to, this is not going to be good. And I remember I convinced her me in this direction. Wasn't that I thought it would give her better results. What pushed me in this direction was I just identified she looks fried. Like she looked fried. And so I said, you know what? We'll start this up again later. This was literally what I told her. What I want you to do right now is let's just, let's just get some rest. And so she replaced, this is literally what she did. She kept training with me twice a week, replaced the group X classes. I don't remember what they were, but we're talking late nineties, all group X classes back then were, you know, move until you die, right? All of them were the, you know, the step classes and whatever. I said, stop doing those. Start doing the yin yoga class that we have here at the gym once a week. And for people unfamiliar, yin yoga is a very slow restful yoga. You're not holding poses hard. You're like sitting on the floor, holding a stretch, whatever. I said, just do that. Let's get you to rest a little bit. And she did. And she got leaner. And I remember being confused. It just didn't math. Like you're burning less calories. What the heck is going on? And I had another trainer that worked for me. Uh, at that time I was a fitness manager. There was this, uh, older, uh, trainer. She wasn't older, but she was older than me because I was so young. And she said, oh, her body just needed to feel safe. Those are exact words. And I'm like, well, that doesn't science, but something happened. And that was kind of the first hint that I ever had as a trainer that, you know, overdoing it, uh, might actually produce the opposite. Uh, of what we expect. And if we scale things back sometimes, uh, or many times, that's the answer that we need. I mean, eating is part of the recovery process. Like that's a vital part where your, your body needs those nutrients to replenish itself. And, and, you know, rest, we're always kind of toggling too. Are we, are we doing too much? Are we overstressed? Like, do we really need to add, you know, more intensity or more exercising? Uh, when in fact, like the resting is going to move you forward, uh, you know, even more so, but yeah, the, the, the eating part, I think a lot of people kind of skip over that as much as like a big factor to the whole thing. I think this is far more common, uh, than we even realize. And, and why I say that is it's been really interesting the last couple of years. I don't remember what year it was when we first launched the first maps 15 protocol, but, uh, I didn't expect it, uh, to do what it did. Like, uh, we, we knew that, um, it would have some sort of appeal to, uh, people because it was specific time and people that's busy. Yeah. So, I mean, I, I knew it would sell a little bit. Like I didn't, that was that part, but I didn't expect the overwhelming response of people getting crazy results from it. Not beginners. Yeah. These are like seasoned people. And so looking back now, and I don't know how much this has shifted and changed just in the last few decades or what, I don't know if it's because of the, you know, because we had a crazy decade of uh, COVID and political stuff and so much division and stress outside of the normal stress that everybody has, family, work, kids, all that stuff. Um, but it's wild to me, uh, how many people are seeing crazy results on the dramatic reduction of volume, uh, in their program. And I think that's a testament to this. I think that a lot of people are just, uh, under nutrition, right. And overstressed and E and this is speaking to our audience. This, I'm not talking about the general population that eats pizza, drinks beer, sits on the couch and watches Netflix all day long. I'm talking about people that are interested in working out and exercise and, and, uh, would say that they try and live a healthy lifestyle. I think those people, uh, are, are overstressed and have a lot, uh, going on. And when they apply working out, and nutrition, it looks like cut back because I know I could eat better and see how much exercise I can do and push. And, uh, and it just doesn't. And some people are resilient. Some people have bodies, uh, and can handle, this is what makes us all, uh, unique. And there's always exceptions to the rule that they can add just even more stress and still see some results, but damn near everybody that I've seen. Um, in fact, I don't, we have, yeah, I've yet to see somebody that we put on a master team program that's come back and said, it didn't work. It's always worked better than what they were currently doing. I find that wild. Isn't that interesting? I think what's important. First thing that I think is important to, uh, focus on with this. And this is, we often talk about strength, right. And how important of a metric this is. And now I do want to be clear. It's not perfect. So just always chasing strength. Isn't a perfect metric. At some point you have to move away from it. Uh, but when you get to that point, you've done a great job by the way. So when you get to the point where you're getting so strong that the risk of injury outweighs any benefit you get from adding weight to the bar. Well, now we're in a different place. Okay. But once you've gotten there, you're doing pretty damn good. So until you get to that place, strength is a great metric because you can't get stronger. Uh, and not even enough, you can't get stronger consistently and have confidence. You can't get stronger consistently and have confidence. You can't get stronger consistently while you're undernourished, underslept, overstressed. So, and, and strength is objective. Like the mirror is very subjective. The scale is objective, but it only tells you mass. It doesn't tell you body fat versus muscle or water. Uh, but strength is clear. If you did two more reps today on this lift than you did last week or two weeks ago, you're moving in the right direction. Yeah. And a lot of things have to be done. Right. For that to happen. In other words, if you're undernourished, everything else can be perfect. You won't get stronger. If you're underslept and everything else is perfect, you won't get stronger. If you're over-trained and everything else is perfect, you won't get stronger. So I think the first thing to, to, to understand with this, as we get into how to eat more to lose fat is this, when you're eating more, the metric that is going to tell you more than other metrics, not to say that other metrics aren't important to look at, but the one that is going to tell you more than other metrics, not to say that other metrics aren't at the top through this process of eating more to lose body fat is strength. Because if you're eating more and not getting stronger, then we're doing something wrong. So that's the first thing, most important thing to pay attention to. And as we get into nutrition, and I'm just going to say this, stick to whole natural foods. Okay. I think that by this point, uh, we don't need to make that point too hard, but stick to whole natural foods. You said it earlier, pizza, garbage, food, whatever. We're not talking about that. Talk about whole natural foods, aim for a high protein diet. Now, uh, now I've, I've seen a few posts and we'll get into this later. Uh, I've seen now on social media, people are pushing back against this, uh, high protein recommendation. Uh, but here's the deal. Okay. There's always individual variances with how people, uh, react and respond to workouts, diet, uh, sleep, but there's general, there's large generalities and the data around a eating a very high protein diet. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think diet when it comes to body fat, muscle satiety, longevity, it's clear, uh, is, is pretty consistent. It's pretty consistent. And this is what it looks like for most people aiming for, cause you can be a little short of this, but aiming for about a gram of protein per pound of target body weight is the upper limit of the benefit you'd get from high protein. In other words, if you want to maximize the benefits of, uh, of, of hitting high protein, then that's the number you should aim for. Now, of course, there's variant, there's individual variances there around that. This can be very hard for some people to do because protein produces incredible satiety, by the way, one of the reasons why it helps with fat loss. Uh, it could cause digestive distress in some people, in which case don't ignore the fact that you have digestive issues. Let's not go a gram of protein per part, you know, per pound of target body weight. If it's messing up your stomach or maybe find ways to add fiber or change the sourcing, but generally speaking, when you're eating more to lose body fat, we want to feed strength and we want to feed muscle and strength with the protein. Cause that's what sets us up for that metabolic advantage later for the fat. Well, regardless of what the culture is kind of pushing everybody towards like protein is essential. And so it's like, it has to be part of the conversation to what degree, you know, fits you best as an individual variance. But, you know, for the most part, like it has to be, uh, a protein that you're considering and incorporating in your strategy. I think that number is, is still even on the conservative side, just because one very few people can do it consistently to back to my point about, I think that if you put in the context of the average American, that is family, kids work overstressed. Most people that are going to the gym probably aren't following a map 15 type of protocol. So they're doing more volume, more intensity. Uh, the re the requirement for that protein in order to, to build strength and to build muscle just becomes even greater. I noticed a huge difference in myself when I fall a little short of that number is a lot. And when I fall a little short of that number, I'm okay. Muscle doesn't fall off of me. Yeah. Um, I don't get fat, but I also don't recover the same way. That's right. And, and, and I know that when I make that extra effort to get another one of those protein meals in, or to get that protein back up even higher, I just re I recover better. And when I recover better, I'm stronger. When I go back to the gym, I build more muscle. And so, yeah, you could get away with not hitting those numbers. Uh, but I have yet to see it not greatly benefit anybody barring the people that you're talking about that are exceptions to the rule, um, which is a very small percentage of the population count on one hand, the client. Yeah. Everybody else, uh, would, would, would dramatically see improvement just by really pushing that number up. That's right. Now let's talk to, let's talk about carbs. Okay. Uh, for most people, it's gonna look closer, like a ratio of two grams of carbs for every gram of protein. So two to one ratio. Now, carbohydrates are not essential. Okay. That's true. You can never eat a carb again and you'll be okay, but it's not ideal. Uh, it's also a source of calories and trying to eat enough to build. Um, without carbohydrates is really hard. It's just really hard. Protein produces a tremendous amount of satiety. Fat is underneath that. Mm-hmm uh, and if you just do it with fat and protein, it's gonna be really hard to fuel your body enough to build, uh, strength and muscle. Plus carbohydrates fuel you. Yeah. They give you energy in your workouts. They better performance. They, and, and going to lower carb, uh, can oftentimes cause hormone issues. Uh, and you see this more often in women than men. You'll hear this from functional medicine practitioners. So, so aim for about two grams of carbohydrates per pound of target body weight, or if you're hitting a protein two grams for every gram of protein, that's a nice general number. You know, speaking of carbs, as you bring that up, I mentioned to you guys recently, uh, that I just had, I had like a big calorie and carbohydrate day the other day. And the takeaway for me was how, um, you know, kind of insidious, uh, it, it can be where low carbohydrate kind of lower calorie. You, you start to adapt to the workouts and this becomes like your new norm. And I, while I was in it, I didn't realize that how much my workouts were suffering until you added extra calories until I added those extra calories and carbohydrates. And I went, oh, okay, this is what I should feel like. And so sometimes people think that, oh, I don't need carbs. I'm fine. Uh, I don't, you know, my workouts are good. And it's not, it's like, again, I would urge you if you're somebody who does that, uh, you know, load up on cards, uh, the day before, or, you know, plenty in a couple meals leading up into a workout watch the difference and, and tell me you don't have one of the best workouts that you possibly had. And then you can really feel, uh, the power of that. We forget that it, we forget this right. That, uh, fueling your workouts or fueling performance is a great way to look good. It's a great way to look good. If you fuel your performance, meaning if you fuel yourself with food to perform better in the gym that is a nice pathway towards the aesthetics that you're looking for it's a nice pathway to strength stamina energy and carbohydrates help they just do by the way the data on carbohydrates is clear i know you hear people say oh you could build muscle this that look it's a fact okay when they compare no carbs or low carbs to a moderate higher carbohydrate diet when it comes to strength output power output it's clear it makes a difference the only time it doesn't really make that big difference is when people are like doing super long low intensity type endurance in which case even the top athletes in those categories will have carbohydrates at least during those events so they definitely make a difference then comes fats okay fats are not bad you need them they're essential if they get too low good luck trying to make anything happen it's just bottom line you want to mess up your hormones uh a great way to do that is to have your fat be too low so because here's what's starting to happen now the protein conversation has become so uh has become more mainstream at least in the fitness space that now you're getting a lot of people saying okay cool i'll eat the protein but i'm gonna do it with whey protein shakes chicken breast and tilapia yeah egg whites and egg whites and they're minimizing fat and the fat is too low and so you've got women eating like 30 40 grams of fat dudes eating like 80 60 70 grams of fat way too low guys your fat fats are a part of this you need the fats they're essential so don't be afraid of the fats now you don't even necessarily go chase fat like you will with protein but don't avoid fat this is where the problem happens is when when you're eating the protein and you're consciously avoiding the fat from your whole foods if you don't try to avoid fat from your foods then you'll get it's easy don't don't eat chicken breasts have chicken thighs don't always eat the leanest cut of meat have a ribeye occasionally don't eat tilapia have salmon it's like it's don't get the extra extra lean ground turkey have regular ground turkey have ground beef it's all there olive oil it's all there olive oil it's it's like it's so yeah when you cook feel free to cook with olive oil use butter things like that if you just do that but then eat all whole foods and good foods you're fine it just it you don't need to chase it yeah i don't even need i don't need a client to count it i don't know it's just like that's the way to eat the only time i've had clients who ate a whole food diet hit their protein intake uh and you know ate adequate carbohydrates like we're talking about and their fat was too low was because they were actively avoiding fat yes they were eating chicken breasts they were eating white fishes they were not using oils at all they were not using butter at all or two out of their three or four meals was a shake yeah you know or something like that yes uh here's the other thing um during this process the scale in the mirror don't count anymore so just just stop don't while you're trying to eat more to lose fat or should i say eat more to build to set yourself up metabolically for fat loss stop studying yourself in the mirror okay first of all that's subjective number two when you eat a little more you're gonna have more water in your mouth and you're gonna have more fat in your mouth and you're gonna have more muscles you're gonna have better pumps you're gonna be a little bit more hydrated you might feel a little bigger if you sit and study yourself in the mirror and you're like wait a minute yeah i look like i'm getting deter you from progress you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna uh reverse course way too fast you're gonna over correct it's like when you're driving a car and it starts a hydroplane it turns a little bit so you whip the steering wheel yeah and now you crash like everybody knows when you hide your plane don't whip the steering wheel it's the worst thing you do kind of slowly allow your car so studying that the mirror get out of that stop doing that and then the scale at this point stop watching the scale now that's one thing to gain a sudden 10 15 pounds but when people try to eat more to set themselves up for fat loss and they see the scale goes up three four pounds oh no yeah and they go in the opposite direction never really giving it a chance uh to work and if you've done this right and you've set yourself up right and this should take a few months at least you're in a place where your calories are high you're strong as hell you feel good now you can come out of it and cut and then watch the fat come off your body and it's going to feel so much easier than what you've you've experienced in the past it's just patience that's right it's being patient and and waiting for that we want everything to happen so fast and that we're using those two things that I think are just are really bad indicators the mirror and the scale are just so deceiving I can't tell you how many clients uh were doing so perfect and because the scale stayed the same or even went up one pound uh they assumed it was bad yeah and it wasn't in the right direction or because uh they had a little more carbs that day or water or it was that time of the month or whatever and they were more sodium in the diet the day before and they're holding some water and so they think they look at it they look puffy and they think that's fat like I can't tell you how many people misinterpret uh what they're seeing in the mirror and what they see on the scale and that lack of patience and belief in the process uh results in over correcting let me ask you a question Adam I already know the answer but just for people listening have you ever gained weight and gotten leaner and have you ever lost weight and gained body fat percentage yeah yeah 100 someone's like how is that possible yeah if you're if you're current let's let me just paint a picture you're a woman you're 25 body fat you're 150 pounds and you gain 10 pounds of pure muscle okay you're now 160 pounds you've gained 10 pounds on the scale of pure muscle your body fat percentage went down because your total body fat is now a smaller percentage of your total body weight by the way you look leaner also so it's not just a number we're not just playing with the math here if you look in the mirror you're like whoa I look leaner now I'm going to paint a different scenario you're 150 pound female 25 body fat you lose 10 pounds of muscle pure muscle you're 140 pounds now you're lighter on the scale your body fat percentage went up and you look softer and this is that's how that happens well I'll say something I think that'll it'll come off a bit controversial but it's the truth and I'm sure you guys would agree with me I get a client she hires me she hasn't worked out in a while or ever uh needs to lose 30 or more pounds and uh I get a hold first thing I always do is let me see what you eat eat the way you do I get a hold of the diet I make some adjustments normally what the adjustments are is like one thing I add protein to the diet or whatever with that and uh two weeks goes by and we hop in the scale and she's down five pounds I'm disappointed and I'm actually pushing her to eat more calories yet her goal was she hired me I want to lose 30 pounds I what that tells me is that we're in too much of a deficit we've just introduced strength training for the first time right so I know that we're lifting weights now and if she's going down on the scale that means we're not feeding enough calories for that body for what we're doing right now and I want to take a mass advantage of the fact that we're lifting weights and that is a novel signal and that she's going to build a lot of muscle right now and so I want the scale to take a massive advantage of the fact that we're going to have to hover around the same maybe I see a couple pounds at the beginning because there's this exchange of inflammation and water weight coming down but I do not want to see this rapid drop right away it's too low of calories and I'm not reaping the Max benefits you're not setting her up metabolically no I'm not reading the Max benefits of lifting weights lifting if she's not hadn't been lifting weights before I got a hold of her or hadn't in a long time and we start lifting weights even though the goal is to lose 30 pounds on the scale I don't want to lose right out the gates I want to build muscle right now no and I want to eat adequate calories and that is really difficult to explain to somebody who hires you or decides I'm going to make a lifestyle change I need to lose 30 or 40 pounds and they see the scales have to go down and think that's a good thing it's like no it's not we just started lifting weights we should be building muscle right now that doesn't mean we can't lose some body fat while also building muscle because then what that more looks like is a beautiful exchange where the scale stays the same that's right that's right 100 speaking of controversial I'm going to say something that sounds controversial but I'll back it up there isn't a thing that red light therapy doesn't improve on the body there isn't a thing that it doesn't improve I mean it's it's it's improving the cells that's it so for some we're made up of a bajillion of these things yeah and if they make them better should make everything so here's the thing so years ago so years ago we were probably it does sight said hearing yeah if you could shine the red light on the structure of your body you would be able to do a lot of things yeah but if you could shine it in the ear yes okay so years ago we had a company juve we work with them now who approached us and told us about red light therapy I was complete I had no idea what photo biomodulation was I did not know about red light therapy I knew anything about it and I remember they told us it does this that and the other and I looked at him and I looked at I said I'm like this this this is crap it doesn't work and they said hey look at the studies like fine I'm always open to look at studies and the studies there's tons of study hundreds of studies some of them going back to the 60s and 70s okay because we've been studying this wavelength of light for a long time and so then I was like what is this how does this work so red light is on the light spectrum and it literally feeds the mitochondria of your cells so when it shines on your body and it does penetrate through the tissue so it doesn't just go on the skin but they're it can go it does go below the skin into muscle as well all the cells that it touches do better at what they're supposed to do so here's what you see in the red light therapy studies it improves eyesight uh it improves skin health it builds muscle they've actually done studies where they shined it on one leg and not on the other leg and they strain train and the one with the red light built a little muscle it enhances fat oxidation if you shine red light this is 100 look it up this is going to sound crazy but it's true if you shine it on your testicles you make more testosterone so red light therapy is wild it's wild we've known about it for a long time but in the past in order to use a red light panel that produced enough of this wavelength to really make a difference you had to go to a super expensive spa because these panels were tens of thousands of dollars now you can go to juve and for hundreds of dollars you have a panel at home and you basically put it wherever you want better skin you want less stretch marks whatever and it works we can't we can't be far off from builders building it into houses and stuff like have a red light room yes we can't be far off from that that would be sick for the knowing knowing what we know about it and i think the bathroom is the best place for it makes the most you're already in there showering you're naked yes i feel like that's i think the future is some of these homes will start to build it internally into the home and it'll be you flip the switch and your your bathroom red light uh mobility yeah yeah i've seen gyms already do it where they have like red rooms like that yeah yeah so they've already they've already uh gyms have already started to do something like that but it just makes more sense to me because you the benefits of getting it on a on a regular basis that you would want to do it somewhere where it's already like to because the one the one thing for me it's it's something that i have to do like go do like we have ours in our bedroom and even then it's like it's so close and easy but i still i get you started standing right exactly get out i get out of the shower which i just spent 10 15 minutes in the bathroom and shower to now stand in front of it in the next you know another 15 you want to multitask yeah i mean just uh being honest and it's not like oh being lazy or something like that it's just like i got it i have to do if there was a god this i'm just going to give someone an idea because you know group these like group class type you know fitness studios tend to pop up they're always different themed and they're typically trendy and then they kind of go away what if somebody did a workout class and it was like red light that exists already really oh yeah yeah they have red light therapy yeah yeah you could probably google and find it's not just red light bulbs it's actual red light therapy well i mean i don't know if they're i don't know if they're using juve or what brand they're using that's like they're using the red light that does yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah really yeah yeah no way you remember what's his face at santa cruz had a red room yeah it's called the red room but yeah i think it's just the red lights but like imagine a workout 10 minutes yeah i guarantee you look at the red light right there look at pilates they have some combining low impact workers with pilates yoga bar red light therapy biological benefits of photobiomodulation yep wow yeah no it definitely exists it works it definitely exists in the gym world which i think is cool but i i think way cooler to have in a home wow yeah because again that's oh yeah of course because that still requires you go to the yoga class yeah and you have to take it at least a few days a week yeah yeah so ultimately just like hammocks you know naked and it's just just lay there yeah it'd be like perfect i love it yeah all right i got a conspiracy theory oh let's hear you guys let's hear this one's gonna love this one so getting spicy so there's a couple things if you're trying to this is for all the conspiracy theory uh people out there right so and there's a lot of us out there which uh can we drop the theory part uh soon or so so so far i think we're like 10 and oh yeah yeah well no drop the conspiracy part just a theory now yeah just yeah it's legit it's a legitimate theory we'll just call it a prediction uh but uh so what i've been seeing in uh because if conspiracy theorists theorists like to look at trends and one of the things that they'll say is that when something big when a big psyop let's say is about to happen they prep us ahead of time yeah and they'll prep like news articles yeah yeah they'll start getting people's awareness up a little bit they'll start kind of testing the water setting people up before they drop the hammer sure okay so i've been seeing a lot of people who are like oh yeah i don't know what to do and i've been seeing articles uh about how two things one i think president trump put out a big like warning and said hey our energy systems are super vulnerable yeah for attack yeah like we need to do something about this and then i saw several news articles of them saying an 18 month blackout could possibly happen right with a big cyber attack so there's that so everybody's like uh-oh what if our infrastructure is easy to be could be under attack okay we got that then we got uh what's happening with ai um and anthropic is coming out and there's people who just right now quit anthropic who are doing posts on x who are like i quit because uh this is dangerous and because nobody is trying to slow this down everybody knows it's dangerous but everybody's moving forward because the idea is well at least we'll get there first yeah but this stuff is getting leading to like sky level yeah like this is like we got to be careful so meanwhile too you see um there's people kind of showing a lot of um costcos like selling flashlights everywhere and selling uh gas cans and selling you know a lot of like you know stuff for like a power outage basically which was interesting i did see that like you know and so that was like hmm what if what if there's a generators because now we're prepped everybody's prepped the power system is vulnerable and uh ai could could be something dangerous what if rogue ai a rogue ai agent comes out cyber attacks the hell out of everything it shuts everything down now we're screwed for a while until the government comes out defeats rogue ai yeah and and says hey guys savior everybody's money was wiped out here's what we're going to do we're going to start over with a digital currency because your money was wiped out but it's okay we're going to put everybody zero no more debt right but we're just going to give everybody digital currency i mean you've layered a couple conspiracies there yeah yeah yeah that's not a conspiracy that's like four or five different bro plan because i and i feel like this is a movie i don't i don't feel like it's fair for you to do that because all it takes is like one of those things to come true and you're like see i told you it's like there's like five conspiracies you just labeled right there because i because i don't crystal ball i definitely don't disagree that you know uh because i'm not a a big believer in this this bitcoin push that we've had forever other than the fact that it's going to be a way for the government to control money even more so and it's been sold to us as it's a way to decentralize and not have control which is bullshit do you think the alien thing they just dropped it because it's just like everybody's like nah wait a minute the aliens dropped bitcoin is that what you're saying what i mean is there's so much hype about aliens and then it's like you know now everybody's kind of moving more to ai because it's like they're like oh my god i don't know what to do with this like maybe not everybody when you guys were talking don't you remember i said when we were all talking about this is all bs it's something else is happening so something already happened while that would the guy well let's let's do this the way we were all looking at the alien thing let's go back in time i think the aliens lost some momentum yeah let's go back in time before doug quickly before doug because i know he's giving me the look like stop going so hard here but let's let's just go back in time during what some people would say was a psyop that happened recently we all remember uh the policies around covid and i think a lot of people now look at them and go we went way too far with some of the things we did and we caused more damage do you guys remember the fear stuff that was happening that had nothing to do with covid you had uh you had the race stuff going on you had politics stuff we had antifa going on it was like fear fear fear fear fear now you're primed covid now everybody's like yes please lock us down and please throw people in jail who don't get vaccinated whatever so maybe it's just more okay more fierce more the fear to drum it back up to scare us yeah but so the rogue ai aliens have the right ai to control us i don't know dude i don't i'm trying to follow this i don't think i don't think the ai and the robots things are going to do anything near what everybody thinks it is i think it's going to be to me it's like the the dot-com push i've made the case on why there's so much news and conversation about it is to keep money flowing in that direction yeah you know it's uh first we got to build all the ai and it's going to be the most amazing thing for us oh no it's going to kill us so we got to build other ais to protect us from those ai it's like anything to keep billions and trillions of dollars flowing that direction well so you'll like totally you'll like option b then adam because i have two conspiracies i had one you're going to cover all your bases so you're going to definitely be right yes let me throw out all the conspiracy theories so no no i i space stations those cost a lot of money i purposely created one for justin and then i have one for you okay i'm here so anthropic's about to go public okay okay so what's in the news right now people coming out saying we quit because this is way too powerful and there's also rumors that they have a a that they believe that they have a 100 cure for cancer this is all leading up to their ipo so maybe it's to pump up i believe that one i knew that doug and i are on the same boat with this this most everything's money money money motivated power control stuff all the fear stuff is a bunch of all right i mean i i think what's more interesting to talk about since you went this way because it's been did you see the recent uh you know ai robot thing that goes in your house that's supposed to fold laundry and compete with the what's the other one neo or whatever you could just see it oh yeah it's like it's instead of like having it instead of looking as human like it's on this like uh it has like more like um like on a track the bottom of it but it's more like wally yeah yeah it looks exactly it's more like wally than has arms supposed to fold your laundry it's supposed to be like half the price of what the neo thing is where i can't help it's because it's so by the way because everybody knows you and i have been debating about this for so long that everybody sends me every one oh yeah i get and update every single i you know just but yes you are based off of the amount of people that flood my dms if i would have known that that was the winning or winner or loser who would get bombarded by their audience it's me who lost that for sure the the funny part that i just cracks me up that nobody talks about like because it's just like it's gonna do this it's gonna do that it's like you see how painfully slow and retarded this thing looks it's ridiculous dude like i could just imagine sitting on my counter watching this thing do dish like let's pretend it actually figures the dish thing out but you watch it move like i it's like nails on the chalkboard type stuff like i would just get up and be like give me the plate so i could do it because it looks so awful and so slow yeah but it doesn't sleep it doesn't have so it can be slow it'll keep working so it'll just it'll fold and clean so so i'm laying in bed at one o'clock in the morning i clean clean and my dishwasher opening and closing and the laundry buzzer going off like yeah awesome bro that sounds like a great idea and then he falls down my stairs because he's freaking retarded that sounds awesome right you see that guy so or freaks my seven-year-old out because he's he's walking through the taking the clothes off the hall yeah the whole trying to fold your kid yeah hallway at two o'clock in the morning terrible dude uh what was it the olympics they had for him um yes the competition yeah the one that like beat the record for usain bolt so somebody actually recreated the same like mechanics uh to try and beat usain bolt like running like the robot yeah hilarious dude you guys check yeah i i saw those and like like a couple of them like exploded like they fell and like sparks were coming out it looked like yeah i didn't know if that was real or i'm like is that real is that like it was silly yeah i don't know i just i i have a hard time uh imagining like let's pretend it does all the things that we say it's going to do which i also think if it does it's going to take a very long time before it does it pretty efficiently it's like is it really uh they say they say 10 years 10 years yeah so uh kurzweil right that's his name kurzweil that was his name kurzweil he predicted the singularity happened 2021 yeah and they're saying that he's kind of on point that it seems like that's the direction now anthropic it's speculated right now that their ai is already able to improve itself so that's the beginning of the singularity right where it starts to make itself better and then once they make themselves better then the acceleration uh amplifies uh just very quickly huh there's the running robot you know you know what's crazy about that i don't care about a running robot because you could just get an rc car that goes fast we already have robots that are way faster that's why the stuff that we use to show to have a boxing the stuff that we're showing to show like the complexity of what it's doing so that it doesn't impress me when it and then the ones that actually like where i could see a use case for it is folding laundry doing dishes is painful yeah it's like oh cool we can make this thing go really fast in a straight line it's like oh neat you know i'm saying or we can program it to dance and do this weird stuff it's like what robot would you buy like would you get a robot and if so what would it have to do no what would sell you it's a really good question because i don't i don't think i would like it in my house in my way uh doing chores i just don't think so not to mention uh it's kind of too late for me because i've connected the value of that like uh so it's like okay uh i don't know if i would want this thing walking through my house uh i don't know if i would want this thing walking through my house uh and doing that stuff so you really wouldn't buy a robot for anything yeah i don't i don't know not to mention that that you could uh you know right now they're all attached to somebody in the philippines that can that looks in your room at any time at once is that funny which by the way i think it's over there they're like don't worry if it gets stuck in the corner somebody will jump on and and back it out for you it's like oh that's exactly what i want my phone i got you yeah i'll help so i mean if you're already the person who's paranoid that our tvs listen to us and our our iphone or our ipads have cameras that are can already do it like i mean yeah let's put a robot in there that's got eyeballs i'm saying i could definitely and pivot around your house i've been seeing posts of people who've been using agents to make clips off of content create new channels gain subscribers and make money and it's all because they told the watching these channels i don't i think that's a short window i think that's a short window it's all bots that are watching it you know it's like i don't know i think a lot of it is hacked for views like you'll get like bots farms to like come over and watch these things and make you know some some money but i don't know i don't believe it i don't believe people are sitting there watching these you know you know what maybe i finally thought of something i was like god there's got to be something all right landscaping outside okay yeah you can landscape for me but you know my landscaper's so damn cheap like it's he'd have to be super inexpensive i mean these things caught what do they cost per month i forget what they cost my landscaper costs i think less than that so i'd have to have it have to be cheaper cheaper and better than yeah because then you're not employing a dude like you know what i mean right right at least you're giving you know yeah yeah so it would have to be it would have to be cheaper and better to do that and so let's pretend that can be in 10 years it could get to that point uh that wouldn't bother me he's outside where i can't i don't have to see him and he's like and you know and i and then he parks himself away when i wake up in the morning my yard looks beautiful every single day i can see that it's kind of cool well so along those lines i think it's kind of cool i think it's kind of cool i think it's kind of cool the outside of my house all day like so so along those lines did you guys see the study the data that just came out on iqs uh and for the first time ever i'm gonna pull it up we're seeing them go down have you guys seen this oh yeah i've seen this i mean that's of course obvious we're outsourcing all this basic critical thinking stuff uh so so check this out school test scores continue to collapse internationally okay so they're actually going down very quickly and what the speculation is that the social networking made us less social unlimited information made people dumber and technology used during childhood has made children less distracting them from actually learning yes so uh because our brains are being trained with this like quick dopamine like kids don't read they're not paying attention they're not focusing and they can just little genie to think for them that's right scores are going down okay can i tell you a little bit about that story i think it's super cute and i love it just shows you too how much our kids are listening so i'm i'm in my son's room um laying on his bed my aunt my aunt my aunt and cousin are visiting uh they share a lot of values that we do and and uh you know we're talking about we talked about toy story five i finally got to see it right yeah yeah love that with the direction yeah so good and i was kind of sharing the story of like how surprised i was that it didn't impact my my fellow peers and the one because they literally let their kid through their kids on the from it they're watching it on the right yeah yeah i just thought that was so crazy but i'm i'm talking to my aunt and my cousin and we're kind of sitting there and max is like in his room playing with his legos and his toys and stuff he's not involved in question but he's obviously ear hustling and i don't realize it and just we're talking i was talking about just the the dangers of the ipad and being addicted to it and youtube how bad youtube is with the algorithm with kids and it's just like absolutely not like so uh he i can hear him and i guess he goes in the room and i'll tell katrina this is right before bath time you know daddy's talking about uh really bad stuff i don't like it and katrina's like hey what are you talking about in front of him i'm like what do you mean what am i talking i'm talking about nothing she's just like he says you're saying things uh that is bad and this and that and i'm like oh he's he overheard me talking about youtube and how it's bad and all these things like that and for all the reasons and uh says i daddy won't talk about it anymore max don't worry i was just like i'm looking at katrina just kind of like eye roll you know so he can't see it it's like he's like being overly sensitive about it so that was just this weekend right so yesterday he goes to uh to vicky's barbershop he'll get his go get his haircut and one of the things that he gets to do when he goes to vicky's and she does it to keep him still so that on the tv she puts up boss battles which is a a youtube video and they're youtube videos of just the game mario game of all the villains that the guys oh yeah and so it's one of the things that we've allowed him to continue it's like street fighter but with the the characters yeah yeah yeah yeah and and you can you can look on youtube and there's just hours and hours of just people you know mario fighting every major boss and thing and he loves it so it's been a thing that we've allowed him to do forever on on when he gets his haircut and stuff he keeps him still and it was so cute because katrina tells me you know so funny he get his haircut and she goes to put it up on the tv oh you want to watch your your boss pals he goes no no no i'm getting too old for that and i'm like oh my god it's so hilarious it has to be because of because you heard that conversation yeah and then i tell you guys the other thing that that was just hilarious too about him again more of him like listening and just picking up his stuff uh the uh red dye in the in the candy yeah so the new school teacher this year so interesting she tells the parents on on the first day which katrina is just like oh my husband's gonna look into that i doubt that's true and she says like hey just so you guys know um on test days we give the kids a small uh half of a gummy one single like red dye well a gummy bear or something like that i don't know what what the gummy is or what but sugar basically and they're well you can google this and because i did and looked up the studies uh it's not true even though there's a prevailing theory and idea that's a myth that giving kids sugar right before a test makes them like hyper like get cognitively more focused and so of course i went down the rabbit hole looking up the studies that tried to prove this and this and that they've been it's been long disproven obviously this teacher has not been updated on her science and stuff like that and so i i tell katrina like yeah no we'll we'll be telling them to skip our son on on something you know what it could do it could just create a good association like oh test time sure i mean i'm sure that's okay because some kids hate tests yeah yeah i'm sure you can make an argument um for it i didn't even know it was a thing or whatever but i thought what was hilarious so this is the first week week of school right so then they had their first test this this last week and she goes they had it by side of my son's like does this have red dye she's like no it doesn't have red dye so he and and he i he told me the story like she he didn't tell me about the red dye thing uh until i asked like hey i heard you took a test today did they give you a gummy and he goes yeah she gave it she gave me a gummy like that but daddy didn't have red dye and i was like okay so you're fine i was like dude this kid this kid listens and hears everything dude it's so so hilarious did you look it up doug that uh it doesn't do anything no i know it doesn't but there's actually there there they thought it did there was like a a movement there for a while there i think what they probably noticed if they noticed anything uh anecdotally was a positive association so kids are like yeah i get to have my candy and then it's test time you know which okay okay i guess you could make that argument you know what type of deal sure my i gotta tell you guys my sister so i gave my parents the freedom super patch the pain patch the one i love that i don't know if our our team did this intentionally what the these are the two brands that we were most skeptical uh working with and they're on yeah together i know i don't know i don't think they've ever had we've ever had both of them on at the same time no so so so i'll get into that right so but i gave some to my dad uh because my dad has got some arthritis stuff and so i gave him a packet of the freedom patch the super patch that's for pain and when they came over he tried it and he's like whoa i think this works i'm like that the studies show it's as good as like an nz and so he's like i like this so he took it home my sister had hurt her knee working out she tried it and she was like oh my god i don't and she took the whole bag my parents are always so generous she took the whole bag and she's like i want more of them so now i have two family members that have used it that are just like this thing's amazing i think it's so crazy that when we first started testing them i think i was one of the first people to test it and um i at that time i had like some forearm pain that i've been dealing with and you asked me i was not the one to look the studies it's always you who looks at the studies and you're like well do you notice anything and i'm like yeah i notice and then when i describe the no i give you a number i was just like it goes from an eight to a nine and i'm like yeah yeah i gave you like a number of what you know if i had to rate my pain i think it's that this number and taking it is brought so it's not like it got rid of it but it brought it down to this is about what and you were like and i remember you reading the the studies you're like exactly what the study said it's like exactly exactly what the study said i didn't know that so it was fascinating because it wasn't like i knew of the study and then i was just for people listening there's no medicine in it there's no supplement in it it's not a transdermal patch it's a patch with ridges on it and it uses signals it uses something called haptic technology which is kind of this new field of research that essentially when you place certain patterns on your skin and you move the uh it communicates to the brain and it can change the how the brain perceives things this is a real science there's real studies behind it there's over a dozen studies that support uh this specifically super patches um the two with the best studies are sleep and pain those are the two i use the most yeah the sleep one is phenomenal it will definitely improve your REM sleep when you use it i mean is is it the same um is it the same like neuropathway or similar science is how braille works well yeah in a sense that you know you could perceive through touch you could read using those same that's kind of what sparked the the study uh you know for people they can go back and listen to the episode but the gentleman who spent i don't remember how 40 million dollars on the disorder and he's an engineer brilliant engineer and so he kind of deduced and got all this reason spent lots and lots of money and through trial and error essentially and through looking at you know brain uh wave um readings yeah eeg tech which there's there's thousands of these patterns yeah maps and patterns which is crazy and it actually works which is really you know speed of that i should have sent it to you i sent it to justin super fascinated in this it was actually one of this one of these trainer guys that i follow talks a lot about fascia training and things like that and he's a sports performance guy really interested in a lot of the stuff and i've i think i've sent justin multiple stuff that he's put out because i find it really interesting and he recently posted about this i brought up to tina you weren't in the room but i brought up to her and she's like oh yeah no that's a real like that's what i used to quit smoking back in the days and so it is um like little very similar like yeah whatever technology you call that where it's you put these stickers yeah and they have acupuncture points in your ears in your ears look that up doug because um i'm familiar so you can go to acupuncturist they'll take these little it looks like beads almost and they'll tape them yes yeah okay yes so look up the data on that because i've had clients who also swore by it i've never looked so they're they're using it for like uh high performing athletes are using it to increase performance and the studies that he was talking about are super fascinating do uh do they work so the doug you can go ahead and ask uh does acupressure work for smoke cessation well don't go smoke i don't care about that i was more interested in the fitness one she just well i want to see for smoking oh uh i want to see what the data shows on smoking specifically uh or let's see can be helpful supplemental tool to reduce nicotine cravings and withdrawal symptoms but there is limited clinical evidence that they work effectively on their own most medical studies indicate that can successfully lower the psychological and physical intensity of immediate cravings it is most reliable when combined oh so it does something yeah i mean that's what she claimed i care more about what he was claiming related to like have you guys have you guys ever had like a legit acupuncture i have i have katrina has a acupuncture so she they they her and her mom they see have you noticed anything for it you know i told you guys my experience years ago i went i had a um somebody worked in my studio i haven't done it enough to like that like to i had a weird experience so this was back when i was you guys think i'm uh skeptical now and i'm still skeptical i'm a very i'm a skeptic by by nature but back in the day i was like if it is not science then it is no you know if i don't see the data then forget it right yeah and i had this woman that worked for me that i respected who swore by this acupuncturist um you might have even gone seen her dog did you ever go see nora no do you ever okay so anyway she kept talking about her and she kept sending her clients to her and the clients kept coming back talking about how great it was and i was like placebo placebo placebo anyway long story short she challenged me and she said go see her because i got in this like debate with her she's like go see her why don't you try it and see first i'm like fine i'll go so i went to go see her she did her thing on me where she tested me she's like you have too much yang energy which i guess is it you know gives you too much heat or whatever they say in chinese medicine and and she said uh i'm i can do a treatment on you to bring that down and she said do you want a mild or an aggressive treatment and i said give me the most aggressive you can give me and she said are you going back to work because if you're going to go back to work and you're or you're going to drive i don't want to give you the most aggressive treatment because you're going to get really drowsy it's going to really and i'm like i'll go home i lied to her i'm like i'm going back to trim my clothes this is going to do nothing so she did it to me she did the acupuncture i laid there did the whole thing she moved the needles i'm like whatever i don't notice anything i pay her and i leave and i come to work and i swear you guys i'm sitting there waiting for my client and it felt like i drank two servings of nyquil i'm sitting there and suddenly i'm like oh bro i could not keep my eyes open i was like this is oh i felt so i had to cancel my appointment had to take a nap in the back and i was like i don't know if that was a powerful placebo but dude look at i felt it i just sent to the group thread doug the video because i wanted sal to watch the video of what i was doing and i was like what uh of what i said oh the athletes yeah yeah and so maybe doug can pull it up and give a sound so you can actually hear hear him talk about you know what's tough about athletes what they talk he he the way he communicates it is like the inner ear is like this connected to the entire body like the it's like a map of the body that's chinese that's chinese yeah yeah no it's yeah it's talking about it through fascia um yeah ear seating yeah yeah so this is classic this classic chinese medicine yeah speaking of meridians and energy and uh very classic i the way i would explain it in western uh medicine uh really has to do with like referred pain like that's a real thing um how you can push one area and feel it somewhere else or you have a heart attack you feel it in a place so maybe something there yeah i can see pain relief especially if that's like a constant signaling yeah that you could sort of reroute or like uh you know confuse the system yeah i mean is it yeah i mean there should be value there for sure you know what i want to ask you justin is the the you have you you brought up mr t - Yeah. - And I haven't heard his name in a long time. know you guys remember like you know your childhood was like a lot of mr t yeah he was i honestly didn't i thought he was in more things like he was really like rocky three and they went into all that of like how he ended up 18 getting that role yeah in the a team and so and then all the cartoons and commercials and all that but that's it that was like his legacy um and anyway this doc they go into like how you know he he really like started off in rough like in the projects in chicago and uh like his mom i guess one time he was trying to make make it out of there and was like working in the city and his mom was like held up uh and and robbed and by by like uh these guys were holding her up and like with with knives and he found out about it and like um anyways went back and took handled you know handled these guys yeah and like totally beat them you know within within an inch of their life uh and then he just had this like drive to to to be a protector and like you know i gotta be around for my mom and i want to be a protector so he ended up getting into like uh being a bodyguard and he was the first like celebrity he had was like uh michael jackson he was like a bodyguard for him for a while michael jackson's bodyguard yeah no way yeah and then he was a bodyguard for um i forget his name but he fought muhammad ali and won frazier no um oh oh i don't like i i didn't remember not the other the s i think it wasn't sunny liston uh who who beat muhammad ali it was joe frazier and there was another guy that was a heavy puncher like frazier i can't remember his name yeah he was a real heavy puncher uh but anyways he ended up um he ended up diana ross michael jackson muhammad ali it was steve mckean leon spinks leon spinks that's who he is joe frazier so he must be kind of a badass if you're if you were if you're joe frazier and you need him so yeah so what's cool about it too is like he's so like you talk about authentic authenticity like it comes through a lot in this documentary like he's just like you would not mess with mr t dude like he he like everybody feared him you know like he would show up and and because he he like protected um uh spinks too in this one like um fight where basically the whole crowd was like you know going against him because i don't know if that was the ali fight or not but like you know they were like grabbing at him and all this and like mr t's just knocking fools out like left and right on and getting him out of there and he so he hired him on full time uh but he built this reputation of being this like total like tough guy and then uh he was on some tv local tv show where it was so funny because it was like a competition of like bouncers and so he's like you know the quickest to be able to jump over the bar run over like you know throw somebody out of the bar and it's like this you know it's like it's like it's like it's it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like anyways it was it was a pretty was it a documentary yeah what was it i'll watch that yeah it's on netflix yeah it was really good what was it called what was it called something mr t is it new i didn't see that brand new oh wow but anyway like the thing is too like his his whole persona with his like chains and all that and like the the feathered earrings and the mohawk oh it's an untold i love the untold yes pity the fool yeah it explained like i mean he took that from an african tribe and he took that from an african tribe and he took that from an african tribe and so it wasn't like mohicans it's not like you mean his hair oh his hair yeah his hair and like they weren't like tons of gold tons of chains well well the whole thing was that was like you know he's talking about like slaves that came over and so he was actually wearing he's like they wore the shackles like i'm wearing you know the gold and it was like sort of in honor of that but anyway anyways like he it was a really cool story because it it showed too that like he he had somewhat lost his way because he got rich and famous and all this and then realized you know like he was kind of losing touch with like you know the community and all this he goes back and became real like faith-based and like he's he's still i don't know if he's alive right now or not but like i think he still is but he i mean i i actually was able to meet him one time when i was in chicago and uh and it was so cool dude i i like idolized him as a kid for sure did you really yeah dude i loved him as like b.a barracus and uh you know and him connected for wrestling so i just uh i enjoyed it a lot he was he's like the definition of a character did you ever eat his cereal you do did you ever have a cereal look at mr t cereal doug yeah there was like mr t's and there's et like cereal i would i i tell you what bro look at see oh my god mr t cereal i never had it was it good no it wasn't good i don't think there's any marshmallows in it i can't wait to watch that i'll totally watch that real dude i i i thought he was uh i thought he was cool the a team was rad dude yeah but they're they're super bad no no well it's funny i mean he did a really good interview uh uh with uh what's this what does the t stand for or is it just oh so the whole thing about mr t he wanted to be addressed as mr because his dad was addressed as boy his brother was boy like everybody was boy and he's like you're gonna you're gonna address me as mr and so like oh wow he put that in there oh his real name is lawrence true old uh to road to road oh mr t wow that's and he legally changed his name yeah when he turned 18 so he did that before he became famous yeah badass yep that's whoa dude that's cool that is really a whole vision for those stories i can't wait to watch it i i really enjoyed it yeah what is butcher box so this is a company that delivers meats to your door and more so if you want grass-fed meat you can get it at butcher box.com and you can get it at butcher box.com you want heritage pork you want wild caught fish and you want it at a good price you go to butcher box every month they deliver a box to your door with the cuts of meat that you selected now you've got the cuts of meat you've got the healthy stuff you can put it in your freezer ready to go ready to eat and you save a tremendous amount of money my favorite cuts are the tri-tips they also have gluten-free chicken nuggets that are incredible actually the best chicken nuggets i've ever had making that up their pork is amazing try the ribs i've never had better ribs and it's all the best quality stuff if you're into quality if you're into protein and you like to save money go to butcher box.com slash mind pump on that link you'll get free ribeyes new york strip steaks or filet mignons in your box for a year for free plus twenty dollars off again it's butcher box.com slash mind pump here comes the show this segment of the podcast is brought to you by mind pump fitness coaching this is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable six figure plus businesses and careers in fitness look it's round table based so you can hear adam justin and myself teaching you how to build a better business get more leads close more deals close bigger deals and be more effective trainers by the way our course is nationally recognized in fact it gives you 1.9 ceus with or for your nasm certification find out more at mindpumpfitnesscoaching.com our first caller is philip from ontario hey how you doing man hey guys how are you how are things going brother oh you know they're all right they're all right how can we help you yeah so thanks for having me back on for this update i really appreciate the insights um just a little recap from from before uh i guess for the listeners too uh i called in with a uh pinched nerve pathway in my lower spine a slight bulging disc uh you guys you know suggested uh systemic inflammation and to drastically reduce volume so i took that to heart um the first week i took a complete deload week um and then subsequently after the um the weeks following that was that was our game plan of uh doing uh uh maps 15 symmetry uh and then i was going to the gym every day maybe six days a week uh maybe not seven uh but i was at the gym still for like an hour and a bit and the remaining time would be used for mobility and um as well as just walking on the treadmill um as far as the mobility exercises go i didn't know quite was what was good for for my issues so i kind of did what i thought was best um but after the initial like month or two uh i'm sorry to report that there wasn't really much of a change i'd still have some intermittent lingering uh discomfort here and there um but the one thing that i did fine uh my wife sent me a video of uh the mcgill three exercises um and i started incorporating those in the mobility and i noticed there was a bit of a change my symptoms were seemed to be slightly reduced or at least had a little bit of a change and i started incorporating less flare-ups but one thing was really clear when i was doing those exercises i didn't realize how weak my core was uh so my core is you know i shake when i'm doing any kind of like a plank or anything like that and i just wonder if there's any kind of um crossover there for sure yeah um i figure everything's interconnected um so again i don't really have much of a background in this stuff so i'm not sure how it's connected but i know what it must be um and then another another symptom that i forgot to mention the last time i was on um if i'm ever in a squatted position and I can I have really good ankle mobility and I can squat very low uh but if I'm working on something you know whatever changing a tire it doesn't matter but if I'm in a low position for a long period of time and I go to stand up I have like a one in four chance that there's like a nerve that pinches inside my groin area enough to bring me to my knees again and I have to kind of walk it off for a bit and it's it's very odd and it's only been since this incident so I don't know if that's just a pinched nerve or what's going on there or if there's a tightness but yeah so that's that's pretty much where we're at remind me what part of the uh the the back had the bulging disc again I think it was the l5 and s1 okay yeah so core your core um is huge strength and stability it supports that yeah one of the one of the best analogies I'd give to clients when explaining how this becomes this is important for everybody but this is exponentially more important to you because if we do have a slight bulge disc it is every once in a while hitting that nerve which is just shooting this pain up and down you so think of it like this if you had a pen like this and then I would tell my clients your core is built up of all these muscles that wrap around the spine and when it's strong it works like a vacuum and it tightens up around the spine and supports it when it's weak there's all kinds of play and movement there and so the you've already noticed that your core is really weak I mean there's all kinds of play going on with your spine and it's not being supported by those muscles you do getting a really strong core right away will probably start to alleviate some of these symptoms and pain that you're having and so that's actually a really good sign that you figured this out because that's going to help uh to address your your point about like you know this I'm guilty of this also so I can d I can deep squat with great form totally fine uh if but if I'm cleaning my my car all day like I was the other day over the weekend and vacuuming and I go to stand up oh my god my back will lock up and the reason why that is is because I'm not squatting down in perfect form while I'm cleaning my car I'm bending over and I'm putting that stress in my low back versus properly supported in the muscles and so I'm my guess is when you feel that locking up like that it's because you're probably not sitting down in this beautiful squat while you're working or bending over you're probably hinge just bending over and then that's what's bothering versus why you're fine when you do squats because your mechanics are well your muscles are supporting the stress instead of the low back supporting the stress yeah so just to be a little bit more specific um all joints have a uh end ranges of motion and what muscles do is they stabilize and protect and strengthen and what you don't want is a joint to support and ranges of motion like it's like my knee hyperextending the ligaments keeping my knee from hyperextending versus my hamstring so if you're noticing weakness in your core that would be where I would uh 100 for sure uh focus uh is on strengthening the core and being very meticulous and careful about your form and your technique on strengthening those muscles um sometimes people will overwork the hip flexors when they're trying to strengthen their core um and that can cause problems not that you want you don't want your hip flexors to be strong but if you're if your core muscles are weak your your abs your obliques your your TVA then your hip flexors tend to take over and they attach and one of the hip flexors attaches to the lumbar spine and so that can actually cause more problems when there's uh you know that kind of a for lack of a better term imbalance so I would really focus on kind of really carefully strengthening the core a correctional exercise specialist in person would be very valuable so if this is kind of this ongoing thing uh sometimes chiropractors are well versed in correctional exercise sometimes uh other times it would be a good physical therapist or sports medicine specialist but correctional exercise in person would be worth its weight in gold remind me where you're based out of uh in Ontario Canada okay yeah maybe I'll just say bring reaching out to Brink in our forum might have contact you could it would be virtual no no he might have contacts oh I see I see yeah he could he could do virtual too but I mean in our private forum which if you're not in there I'll have dad dad I'll have my dad I'll have Doug Jordan shallow get you in the private forum um and uh Justin Brink who's a movement specialist he he if you uh tag him in there and and let him know that you've talked to us on on here he not only can help you virtually but then there might be somebody personally uh there personally that he's got he's connected all over the place and so maybe he could refer you uh but uh we also too have some really good mind pump TV videos Sal did a uh hip flexor deactivator video on mind pump TV and we've got some good ab exercises on there where we're really stressing the technique in there that will be valuable but none of it will replace somebody who knows what they're doing and seeing you in person correctional exercise is so individualized it's it's not like traditional exercise it's very individualized and when you do the right correctional exercise it makes a huge difference okay now in terms of of of again I know taking to what you just said to heart in terms of you know correctional is very specific to the to the user or um what what are some exercises that are probably safe like I'm thinking cross cable chops things like that is that uh what do we look at vacuum poses like what am I looking at yes but it's hard to say it's hard to say because technique is everything so uh rotating could be great and it could also hurt you depending on how it's being performed um and and what the actual issue is so it's it's hard to say because uh this seems to be very specific um and taking some time off uh and you know training with less volume didn't seem to fix it and there are a few movements that you seem to notice uh that benefited you the McGill three so it's hard to say um you know with cases like this uh and I you know just again I hate to point in this direction because I'd love to give you just the right answer having someone there in person is where I would refer like if you were my client um I would watch you carefully and and help identify it through the movements and then even if that didn't work I often would send people to a correctional exercise specialist that was even better than if you can't find that I think the next best thing in my opinion is a virtual video with with Brink because Brink will have you do movements virtually and ask you how do you feel so good he's going to be able to even virtually obviously like Sal saying nothing beats having a specialist like that watch you because if I was watching you move and you made a sound or you said oh I feel that here I would modify and change on the fly and be like okay we're not gonna do that we're gonna do this instead and so that's what he's communicating Brink if you can't find that Brink will be able to do that virtually with you uh better than anybody else I know and so uh definitely if you can't find someone in the in the area reach out to him and at least do that virtually it'll be it'll be worth the visit for sure or two that you do with him just to just to get some just to get some good movements that you can go work on on your own so you go okay these are the things I need to do this is how I need to perform it this is how it should feel and then he'll prescribe to you do it this many times a day or a week or whatever and then really work on that but all in all I know you didn't get to see great progress from the our last coaching with you but this is a good sign that you've been able to isolate it to the how weak your course because this will make a huge difference I know clients that have lived their whole life with a bulge disc and had zero back pain and then I've had other clients with a slight dip and it's bothering my crazy uh one of the key differentiators between those our clients are the clients that really developed a strong core that supported that spine made a huge difference and so that that's right it's a good sign that you've figured this out because there's room to really improve this yeah and it's it makes a lot of sense like I know it's the same thing with like the pop can analogy right if a pop can is full of soda and you poke the side of it it won't crumble but with an empty one it will like I know I know there's a lot of a lot of um you know supporting structures in there that that require some some some integrity and some pressure that's right yeah on a silver lining uh with with this the last two months this whole summer about doing this reduced volume um and I I'm sorry to say that I was always struggling with the whole less volume uh do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of um and having gone to the gym six days a week and doing oh Christ I don't know 18 sets per per workout and all this uh and switching to dedicated six sets of workout uh I got leaner yeah isn't that weird and eat more isn't that weird yeah it's crazy it's absolutely crazy so uh that has been eye-opening I have now realized that I have more of a of a new fulcrum point right where I'm like do a little bit more volume but like I don't have to do anywhere near as much before I can spend more time doing mobility more sauna more awesome awesome dude very eye-opening that is that is silver lining bro that's great and it's great news you work on this core I think you'll see a huge difference yeah I'm excited I'm excited right on man all right man thanks Phil okay thanks guys much appreciated and and keep doing what you're doing all right take care uh yeah the first off uh I love that he was doing so much less volume got better shape I love that people people do that it blows them away you know correctional exercise um is so incredibly valuable I mean we could we teach our coaches here if they're going to spend any time on improving their skills that's one first place is because, um, it, it solves a lot of issues. I mean, I just recently had an experience of that with my own hip. Um, and it took three sessions for C dramatic reduction in pain. Uh, and this was an issue that I'd been dealing for a long time. I just really didn't focus on it a hundred percent. Um, it makes a huge difference. Uh, so a lot of people live with this kind of like, I got a bad shoulder. My back's always kind of bothering me. And if I avoid these exercises, I'm okay. Like directed correctional exercise that's individualized oftentimes fixes things. Yeah. I'm glad you guys pointed him to coach though. Cause a lot of times, uh, even watching the videos and like emulating the movements, uh, you know, sometimes clients don't really have, they're not quite in tune with their body to that degree to be able to create that kind of bracing and that type of, um, you know, strengthening around the area, not exceed it. So, um, you know, to learn that as invaluable. Oh man. I mean, especially, I mean, considering one of the examples he gave was like wood chops, like talk about a movement that could make or break. Right. Like if you don't have the foundational strength connection to your core, to activate it, tighten it up and keep it tight through that movement. Uh, that's like a recipe for an injury and a movement like that. Or it could help. Yeah. Or, yeah. Or it could be amazing. Right. So it depends on how it's done properly. It can be amazing. And by the way, you can't tell an expert can tell, but most people would look at the both done wrong, done right. And would not be able to notice. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. That's what makes the core need feedback. A lot more unique for the typical coach or someone to just look at and be like, Oh yeah. Cause you'll do the movement. It'll look, you know, you'll move in the same plane, but if it's not, if he's not activating, uh, constantly, it'd make a huge difference. Our next caller is Savannah from Florida. Hi Savannah. Hi Savannah. Hi guys. How can we help you? So I originally sent this, um, when I actually broke my ribs. So I'm thankfully in a better place now, but, um, I am a professional equestrian. So I ride horses and unfortunately I broke my ribs doing something with the horses, but I'm also really into fitness. Um, I've been lifting pretty consistently and seriously for about five or six years. Um, I started a strength training business specifically for equestrians trying to kind of bridge that gap. Um, but during this time I was trying to figure out what could I do to not lose strength? Because obviously I still had to, to be able to work and, you know, be able to, when the time came to ride again, not, uh, be behind and, uh, trying to catch up there. If there was anything both, um, in the gym and also sides like BPC, uh, one 57, you know, using a peptide, that sort of thing. And in your guys' opinion, short-term injuries, how much strength would I actually lose? Versus I know we talk about, you guys talk about, um, strength coming back quickly and it's a muscle memory and all of that. But in my head, I'm also, you know, what I just felt like I was going to lose everything that I had worked so hard for. Yeah, no, good question, Savannah. Thanks for calling in. So are you, you know, is it okay if I'm a little bit direct with kind of what I think the issue is here? Please. So the issue here is fear. So you have a, you broke explain that injury to me a little bit. Cause that's a pretty gnarly injury. Breaking ribs affects a lot. That was the hardest thing. I've injured other parts where you just kind of kick on and, you know, you brace it, work other things. The ribs really slows you down. Oh yeah. You can't do anything. How many ribs did you break and where I brought broke, um, seven and eight and I got kicked unfortunately. So it wasn't even a call. Yeah, it was, it was pretty brutal. I got to say, darn it. So the issue is fear here. So here's the deal. Uh, you can't do much, uh, as you're, I'm sure you already aware the ribs, uh, are connected to almost everything. So doing almost any movement, uh, that requires any kind of bracing, which is almost everything, uh, is going to be very difficult with broken ribs and broken ribs can take a little while to heal. All the supportive structures can take a little while as I'm sure you're experiencing, you will get weaker. You're a hundred percent going to get weaker. Okay. The things you could do to help yourself, uh, get better quicker or to help yourself. Not lose as much strength is to heal faster. So you have to change the mentality from, Oh no, can't lose the strength. What can I get away with to how can I get myself to heal as fast as possible? That's the best strategy. We'll get weaker. Yes. Will you lose muscle? Yes. Will it come back very quickly, faster than you can imagine? It comes back there. Muscle memory is radically, uh, amazing, um, at its abilities. It's crazy. I don't know if you've ever broken a limb before and had to do it. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. I've had to wear a cast and take the cast off and you see how much the muscle atrophies and then it just comes back on its own. Has that ever happened to you? Uh, since I was a kid. So a long time ago, it comes back so fast in the meantime, if you can do isometrics, that would be the best thing to remain connected. You can also use stim to help keep the muscles connected. Um, uh, but isometrics would be the best thing. And it's part, it's probably going to be just the limbs because again, the ribs are at your trunk and any kind of supported anything, uh, is going to affect the ribs. So you might be able to sit and do like a leg extension and squeeze the leg, or maybe do a leg curl and squeeze the leg or do an abduction and squeeze, you know, and just kind of tense things. The good news about what I'm saying is you could practice it often. So you could do it, you know, five times a day, you know, type of deal. Um, and then in the meantime, uh, rest, feed yourself. The other fear sometimes people have is, Oh my God, I get so fat. Okay. So restricting calories will slow down recovery as well. Now I'm not saying eat garbage, but get adequate protein, adequate fats, carbohydrates. Um, and then the peptides that have the most effect on speeding up recovery, uh, in order of effectiveness, and you can combine them all is BPC one five seven thymus and beta or TB five hundred, uh, GHK, CU and KPV. But BPC is the most effective thymus and beta or TB five hundred would be second. Those two are the most powerful to bot together. And then if you want, you can combine GHK, CU and, um, KPV. Uh, and all of those are, are they work synergistically to help, uh, heal the body to help with collagen, connective tissue, muscle, bone, all of that stuff. And then when you're able to get back into training, the mistake that people often make is they. Think they need to go hard. Mm-hmm actually very little will get the body to start getting stronger. You don't need to make up lost time. It's crazy. I'm telling you how crazy it's gonna blow your mind when you start to kind of get, first off, you're gonna be shocked at, oh my God, I'm so weak. And then the following week, you're gonna be like, whoa, I feel a lot stronger. And then like by week four and five, you're gonna be like, whoa, I'm coming back very, very quickly. So just, just rest in that the mental part's gonna be a hard part cuz you're probably very active. Mm-hmm um, yeah, I know. So your, your sport requires a lot of your, your, your doing it a lot. You're also in fitness. So the mental part part, cuz now you're like kind of forced to sit still, which is really, really tough. Right. That's probably, I think the hardest part, honestly, not much to add to that other than maybe, uh, red light therapy. If you have access to that, that's great. So, and you can shine it right on the ribs. Yeah. So live in front of that thing. Uh, get in, get in front of that, uh, pretty frequently. Um, are you in the, uh, Ocala area? Where in Florida are you? I'm Wellington. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Matthews is. Oh, he's out there. Yeah. In the question area. Oh, here's the other thing too. Are you able to get into a swim? Cuz uh, a, a pool and water with its buoyancy sometimes. It won't help. Yeah. Can provide a little bit of stability. Are you able to do that? Yeah, for sure. So you can even get in a pool and like walk. That's a good call. Back and forth. Mm-hmm you want that blood circulation, you want movement, but it has to be really light and, and not a lot of impact. So, you know, I think, yeah, swimming would be a great. Biggest. Mistake though, that, uh, trainer slash athletes, which you are both make is too much, too fast, too soon. Yes. 100%. Keep it light. That, that is the, the, and, and that you wanna talk about, uh, the fastest way to lose more muscle is trying to trying too hard, too fast and setting yourself back and an extra week or two of slowness or taking your time is not gonna hinder your progress. Trying to do something you shouldn't be doing yet is we'll set you way back. We'll set you months back. And so remember that. Yeah. But in my head, I know. I trust me. I know because, and I know, I know so well because I'm guilty of making the mistake more than once. All of us have done it repeatedly to ourselves. Yeah. So we're speaking out of experience. I know how much it, it sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One more question. So you say calories and protein are obviously important. I've never not ridden like in my entire life, I've always been able to ride. So I don't even really know what maintenance is in that sense. And I know walking is gonna be, I'm gonna be walking more than normal. So should I almost go above what I think you're better off going above than going below. That's for sure. Yeah. At the very least eat exactly as you were before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't try to adjust it cuz of the reduced activity. Some people will make that mistake. Okay. Well, I'm moving less. So I'm gonna cut my calories down, uh, which actually, um, now you're sending two singles. I mean, I, I can tell you're lean through your long sleeve shirt. So you, you are Yeah. Better off. Adding a couple pounds of body fat 100% to speed up the recovery. Then you are just trying to hover right around the same way. So we definitely bowed on maintenance. surplus than trying to figure out well now i'm not riding so maybe i should only eat this much like eat too much accidentally put on three to five pounds that's better for us yes yes okay yeah yeah that makes sense yep yeah how long do you how long did they tell you it's gonna take honestly not a great answer they're like four or six weeks could be eight weeks like okay ribs suck yeah you don't want to sneeze i what week are you on right now how far in are you right now um so i'm actually i'm past now i'm pretty in a good good spot i'm at like eight weeks now okay good and how do you feel like you said i was pretty discouraged at the beginning and now i feel better there i can still tell i can still feel things actually um the hardest thing is like chest exercises which i guess yep yeah rotation chest exercises rows with like a little bit of weight and then you're like oh my god i'm not hard squeeze might be difficult you know because the ribs if you look at the ribs they attach to the spine they come around and they're just kind of floating and there's all these muscles that attach and connect to them and so it can be it feels unstable it can feel uh like it's unstable after they're healed for a while yeah yeah that it was a very odd feeling and um i just started riding again too and that was a very odd feeling okay so since the ribs are healed so the brakes are healed right you're saying they're totally healed now okay breathing exercises are going to be really good for you yeah yeah okay so full diaphragmatic breaths that expand the rib cage contract the rib cage you want the rib cage to stretch and come in don't get crazy with it so don't go do a dumbbell pullover where you're trying to like really because you'll pull something but like focus on the breath because here's what also happens so i'm glad we're at this point and this brings me to another thing that's important broken ribs uh or when they heal sometimes people develop breathing pattern issues that last a long time because you had to breathe differently maybe not even realizing it because of the rib injury real shallow and so and then that can continue to cause problems for for a long time so practice full diaphragmatic breaths uh throughout the day um so that's that's another thing to add interesting that makes sense though yeah cool thank you guys yeah you got it be patient you're gonna be good be patient all right thank you thanks for calling in thanks so much bye of all the bones that would suck i think the two that i would hate to break the most i mean i'm sure there's other ones but just off the top my ribs yep and collarbone those two because they don't put us they don't put like a cast on you no they don't like help it like you break a collarbone it just we're gonna let it heal the way it is like okay i'm just gonna not do anything and hold myself together that's your new collarbone yeah ribs ribs would probably be that i mean i've never had a broken bone so thank god not if i'm wood uh but ribs sounds painful well i've broken bones i've never had a broken bone so thank god not if i'm wood uh but ribs sounds painful bruised in person so i went snowboarding and my friend's dad was actually like snowboarding with us and he decided to try and keep up and went on one of those platform jumps and right in front of me and then his hat flew off and he goes to catch it in the air he sideways lands sideways right on his ribs and broke all his ribs on his left side it was so brutal yeah so yeah he was in a lot of pain all right our next caller is mike from arizona mike what's up dude what's up mike what's up fellas how are we good how can we help you i got you so uh before we get started uh of course have to give some thank you to you guys um i have probably a dozen maps programs i have probably every sponsor that you guys work with i i have or uh have had with the exception of maybe eight sleeps so if you guys have any extra in the back room let me know that's next um but but the amount of sleep that you guys have is a lot of sleep that you guys have is a lot of sleep that you guys have money that i've spent with you guys and all your sponsors comes nothing close to the value that i get from you guys you know just the way i understand fitness and nutrition and health and wellness um is beyond beyond anything so even i'm a i'm a golf professional in arizona and i opened my own golf instruction company uh about three years ago and just the parallels that you guys talk about coaching uh clients and golf instructions very very close so um you know sell a lot of your analogies that you use with you know your clients and you talk about i take and make my own just to put a golf spin on it so cool very cool sometimes when you talk golf sal uh it's a little like i'm not i have i don't know very much about golf at all just chalk it up to sports i did beat them at top golf does that count mike hell yeah it counts oh man don't say that adam uh oh you probably remember this we've chatted a few times but maybe about two years ago you guys were doing a event in trucky and i was going to come out and give you a golf lesson and get on video business oh that's you that's you okay you look familiar too i was like man i feel like we met before okay yeah yeah okay i remember now so i still owe you one some some way or another we're gonna get that in no no i would love that i would love that dude that's for sure right on so question um i've been doing mass programs for about four years um i've done anabolic i think twice advanced three times aesthetic performance power lift um for maybe the last year or so i've been doing maps 15 style programs and like anyone who's on the fence about that like they're legit so i didn't think i would love it as much as i do but man like it's such a great great program all of them so um so i being on the 15 protocol for like i said the last year i wanted to switch things up body feels good um wanted to you know uh increase the volume want to see if i could put on a little bit more size um so my original question i had you guys was like hey like how should i go about this um since the first email i sent in i some there's been some updates i went ahead to dexa scan um dexa showed that i am i'm six feet tall 220 15 body fat and 181 pounds of lean so i'm 41 i realized hey i'm i'm doing all right for 41 real girl you won yeah you won you're doing great yeah yeah yeah thank you um so like i said i'm working with a practitioner i'm on trt for the last year and a half um i just had my labs drawn and it was showing that my igf1 was fairly low so i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working with a lot of people for a long time and i've been working be optimized do as much as i can see like remeasure dexa in in three months now when the dexa came back it showed that i had 1.6 pounds of visceral so just kind of like looking through the lens of health hey maybe that's a better idea to to get that 1.6 off me versus trying to get another five pounds of of muscle um but i want it both so what's what's what's your guys's recommendation how can i uh you'll probably i'm stubborn in in process of adding five pounds of muscle you'll probably pursue the the lower body fat percentage so that i would go that direction but i i'm more curious about i'll let you go so on a minute but i'm before we jump out of these 15s i want to know how much golf you're playing so i don't golf a lot so i actually tell people that i don't really like golf anymore i golfed a ton um but i get my feel of golf by teaching it so i'm around it every day i get to talk it i get to help people better at it so i don't need to go out and golf you know four hours you know every day or so i mean i golf probably a dozen times a year at most so okay so i gotta impede training mike there's really no wrong way for you to go i mean you're doing so well 15 body fat is great you've got a lot of lean body mass um i mean you could use peptides to bring up igf1 you could go you could go hgh as well it's not going to be as dramatic as testosterone trt can be quite dramatic with its effects hgh and growth hormone you know you you'll notice that over the course of a year or two you might get a little leaner you know better sleep that kind of stuff um there's really no wrong way to go i mean where i would point you in the direction of is whatever feels the most fun because you could go on a cut you can try to gain muscle you could you could work on mobility you could try new skills because you're in such a good place dude it really honestly it's like what what's the most fun for you the other i have the other question i might ask you too uh because i do i think sounds so right like you're in you're in a great place this is kind of like right where i like to hover this is uh i hover right around this body fat percentage we're very similar size um when you when you look at your diet uh eating drinking whatever the things are is there anything that you that stands out to you that's egregious that you know you could tighten up or be better at because maybe the pathway is just that like you're like yeah for me i'll just tell you i know when i could be having more whiskey than i probably need to have in the diet and so it's just like and then i get the dex and i'm like i'm a little higher on the body fat percentage i should probably lean out i should probably cut back on something like that but how do you feel about your diet when you assess it yeah i mean i'm like i'm very it's kind of cruise control like it's not yeah i'm not restrictive it's just like i'm in a good place diet wise like i enjoy my treats um i i try to eat clean i you know i eat 200 plus grams a day um so i'm doing i know i'm doing everything right but like i go back and forth the other day you know i hit a pr on bench of 385 um and then it's like so one day i love being strong and i'm like let's bulk let's go let's get 405 and then the next is no let's get down to 10 and see what that looks like for fun because i've never been shredded before so it's like so it's every day it's it's kind of back and forth okay well so then i do have an opinion on that at 41 i would push you to get leaner from my personal experience of having that exact thought and then injury and shit happens like that so you you're already uh we talked about this the other day on the podcast like at one point when you start pushing 300 pounds on bench squatting 400 pounds dead lifting 400 reward you you yeah you are reaping you are reaping 300 pounds on bench squatting 400 pounds dead lifting 400 you yeah you are reaping 90 of the benefits of what lifting heavy weight's going to give you go adding another 20 pounds is all ego that wants that next thing and what it's not going to serve you so it's why at our age why go do that when uh we're we're getting leaner absolutely could serve you like if you've never been shredded and nine percent body fat there's a lot of value in that there's a lot of value of like and learning about what that's like learning how to diet like that training that way that and that's a lot safer your strength is going to come down a little bit who cares you're already hella strong you know i'm saying like get get shredded get lean enjoy that process challenge yourself that it's challenging as shit so challenge yourself that way i wouldn't push you uh and this would be different advice if you were benching 185 and you're like guys i'd be like cool we got we got a lot of room still to get bigger and stronger there's not going to be much benefit for you getting stronger other than the fact that you're you're lifting crazy weight yeah uh but you know what adam's saying like a couple people getting leaner i mean the discipline involved what that looks like i don't know i don't know i don't know what that looks like what that feels like there's some stuff you can learn you're in such a healthy place that you know i'd say go for it uh one word of caution when you're cutting is you've got to drop the intensity and not get addicted uh or should i say not marry the weights that you're lifting sometimes dudes are like no i'm not going to get weaker you know i'm trying to get nine percent yeah and then that kind of becomes a problem uh it's all diet dude it's all going to be structured diet it's all going to be like prepping your meals you know all that stuff i don't know math 15 let's diet to get to nine percent once you get down to nine percent let's go let's uh increase volume increase calories and just let let it do its work like literally just go like like you stay the volume we got because it was to sal's point when you start cutting all of a sudden ramping up your volume right now is not going to serve you no no no so it's like so keep your volume and that so run a maps 15 style but do it in a diet cut out all the goodies and and maybe pick up the activity a little bit as far as walking moving steps those things and here and get lean and here's another thing too with the guy like you you're doing so well dude that let's say you go on test of maryland uh this is a growth hormone releasing peptide if you kept everything the same you're probably going to drop and i you know i'm careful when i say this because this is not for everybody but for a dude like you one to two percent yeah you'll probably drop down one to two percent yeah just from the test of maryland over the course of like six to nine months uh you combine that with a calorie deficit you know drop five hundred calories you'll probably get down to like eleven percent without like really hard focus just some focus so that's just another thought so i am from the my practitioner i did i'm two weeks into test of maryland i from maryland okay uh i'm doing bpc tb and then uh ss31 and mozzi okay are you using ss31 and mozzi at the same time yeah how do you feel do the gym lifts like i do it uh two days a week like dude yes okay yeah i'm on mozzi for some people both both of those combined at the same time could be too much is that what gave you your little issue it was yeah i could not take them both at the same time okay i did not can i ask what was going on uh it's just too much mitochondrial like amping and so std's flared up you had to go to the hospital no no those are no i felt uh it felt bad it made me feel not good it was just too much mitochondria so i can do one of them isn't that when you got the serotonin thing no oh that's the other time i get it all confused for all the things you've been testing yeah yeah so i i've done it i've done the combination uh i think two like monday and thursday before lift and like that's i just hit the pr so i don't like i feel great in the gym so no negative yet but going back to your tests morellen plus mozzi alone will probably drop two or three percent yeah yeah yeah so you can keep everything the same dude and you're probably gonna over the course of six to nine months but where we're all at in our life uh i mean your your strength you're you're winning you won you're at the place you want to be to me this is ideally to kind of hover around this totally you think it's cool to go up or down but the i really have changed a lot of my opinions around the pursuing the like really pushing the pr thing because the the the risk versus reward at this place in our life is a lot of the time it's a lot of the time it's a lot of the time it's a lot of it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense yeah and it's it's still challenging i have my moments like the other day i was in squatting in the gym and uh there was this power lifter chick that was listening right next to me and i was like fuck she's like literally doing more weight than me right now like that was really tough for me to not like intentionally start and i'm like get out of your get out of your head like like it's so i still got to have the conversation with myself because it's all ego that makes me want to do that it's not going to serve me anymore at that point and you're you're at you're at pretty peak strength dude to you're not going to get much benefit from that you get more benefit from getting shredded though you know you know what you could do mike honestly because like i said you'll probably drop two or three percent just kind of staying where you're at right now maybe two percent i would say you could hire a coach and get real crazy with your diet i'm getting down to nine percent is kind of wild you know ten nine eight percent it gets kind of weird there's a lot of mental stuff that goes on it's very meticulous you gotta you know weigh measure things type of deal hiring a coach uh and just going through that might be something if you're interested in going that far but i gotta tell you you're you you won dude you're kicking butt i'd say just i don't think i'll just have fun like that's the best advice i can tell you just have fun so i like that's the thing that i never want to get to a diet or like in the gym where it feels like work like i just it's just as you guys know it's going to the gym is my therapy it gets me it's my time so yeah um i did i was on a cut for about 12 weeks or so and it was like i didn't drop uh below 2600 but i did lean out to i probably dropped 12 to 15 pounds so i did just come off of a cut oh okay yeah no i wouldn't go in a cut then yeah yeah dude yeah just bump your calories up and get strong have fun dude yeah because 2600 is about as low as i would take a guy your size yeah i wouldn't go any lower than that because that would really really be a quality of life decrease and you get some negatives and i can't go lower than i'm so damn hungry when i was at 26 yeah that's what i'm saying dude you're a big guy dude so you probably are you're probably good at 3000 3200 that's probably going to keep you lean strong good you could probably get up to 3800 to build muscle you know it's probably your range i mean you literally could just do what that's why i asked the thing about you know you're better than anybody like i know what my handful of things that don't serve me in the diet if i just restrict for like four six weeks from those things i can drop two three percent it's like when you hover around the place where you're at it's like okay i could you take out the gummy bear yeah i can stop the i can whiskey for a month you know i'm saying i could stop the ice cream after dinner like i could do like there's there's a handful of things i know that i love which you could also enjoy and and be 15 body fat but if you want to mess with some things you can play with that for a while but you're bro you're you're at where wherever we try and coach everybody to get to yeah in your mid 40s strong as shit activist you're at the top of the mountain dude you're a great value great balance of muscle aesthetic you're not you're you have good body fat on you you're not you're not too shredded you're not too you're perfect dude so uh you could just kind of fuck it up from here to be honest well thanks for nothing we left you with nothing bro just i just my only one thing you could go either way but just i just caution you with the strength thing uh because you're you're 41 right you said right this is yeah i mean literally 40 to 40 i'm turning 45 stronger than 99.9 percent this is 40 40 to 45 where i'm at now is where all these injuries start to happen like crazy and it was a lot of me chasing numbers that i just didn't need to do anymore you know yeah i hear you so i did i'm three weeks into anabolic again and i did just start uh uh ice hockey league um i haven't played in like about 10 years last night was the first game but um so i did introduce a i mean a big cardio stimulus into my my uh life and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm anything change still just have fun well now i okay so that does change advice because then to me your training should be something that's going to complement and bulletproof your hockey because this is exactly how it hurts wakeboarding and basketball or my injuries were picking that up later in my life you know i don't know what you were like in hockey size wise but when i was playing sports and and jumping around on wakeboards i was not 220 and i was a little i was he sent he sent us some pictures of you and i was like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like and he's pretty damn athletic for being a big guy so yeah yeah so maps 15 uh performance would probably be good while you're playing hockey yeah Yeah. Right on. Yeah, dude. Well, then that's what I'll do. 15 performance. Good. Do it, Mike. Good, dude. And then next time we're up in Truckee, we'll link up. Yeah. I sure hope so. Well, Arizona. I know, Sal, you may have been out for the Peptide World Conference. Oh, yeah. Open door. If you guys are in Arizona and you don't reach out, I'm going to be pissed. Okay. We go there once a year now. Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah. Help us beat Sal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And knock down those Angry Birds, dude. Yeah, yeah. All right, keep us posted, Mike. I'd like to hear how it goes for you, brother. Right on, guys. I appreciate the time. Take it easy, man. Yeah, it's not often that people get into that great place, but I got to say this, you know, because sometimes, you know, for people listening, if this is you, there's a difference between climbing the mountain and enjoying the view. And sometimes when you're climbing the mountain, you get to the top, you're at a place that you can learn to enjoy the view and not chase so hard after certain things, and then that becomes a problem. Like you said, I'm like, you know, it's 380 bench. Like, what if he's like, I want to get a 400? Like, I want to break 400. It's cool, but the risk of injury- What's it going to bring you, though? It's going to bring him nothing other than he can say he benched 400. Substantial. No, no. I mean, it's not often we talk to somebody like that on the podcast. So, and I don't know. I think I feel extra passionate about this conversation because I've wrestled with this the last five years of my life. And so, and I think when I really think back to, and I'm sure there's somebody who's listening who's like, oh, that's a weak answer you guys gave me. It's good. Plus, he's- But it's like, no, I mean, at this point and stage of my life, like health, longevity, maintaining that athletic, strong 15% build is way, like, man, tearing my pec, tearing my Achilles, tearing ACL, MCL, all that stuff was, were horrible setbacks, horrible setbacks. And I went through periods of time on some of those injuries where I was depressed and frustrated. And it's like, dude, if I- You could have not done that. Yeah, I could have not. If I go back and do it all over again, I'd be like, what are you doing chasing numbers like that? Our next caller is Michelle from Ontario. Hi, Michelle. Welcome back. Hello. How are you doing, Michelle? Hey, how are you guys? Good. Good to see you. How's it going? It's been an interesting month, I will say. Okay. Fill us in. Fill us in. Let us know. I'm going to say it's been more of a negative. We just had a lot going on this month. So I haven't been, like, the greatest at everything. So that's been kind of, like, frustrating. But, like, I know I have to take it, like, day by day. I'm starting work in a couple of weeks. So, like, that's been, like. On my mind, too. So, like, I don't know how things are going to work. My son started daycare. So that's been a lot. And then I even, like, injured myself. So, like, that kind of, like, halted everything. So, like, that's been, like, my biggest thing of, like, how do I get back into it after an injury? But, like, how do I also, like, still focus on working out without, like, pushing myself too much? I totally get that. How did you hurt your back? What happened? Honestly, like, I think it's just, like, sleeping weird. Like, my back and my upper back. And my neck. Like, it just, like, I couldn't turn my neck. Like, it was just, like, really, like, hard. I even, like, went to, like, get a massage to kind of, like, help that work out, whatever it was. But, like, it just, like, I don't even know how it happened. And, like, that's, like, more of the annoying part. Yeah, that sucks when that happens. That's happened to me before. So, the thing to remember, Michelle, with the fitness journey, okay, is that we want to use exercise and nutrition, not just for these things, by the way, okay, because there's, especially with weight loss. Yeah. There's a diet. There's so much that goes around our food, like celebration and connecting, okay? But we also want to be able to use those as ways to improve the quality of our life, regardless of what's happening in our lives. And so, sometimes what happens is we'll go through something. Like, we had a client. I actually got on a call a while ago with one of our trainers and their clients. And we had talked about the previous year that they had done coaching. And there were a couple really difficult situations that had happened within that. One of them was a personal one. The other one had to revolve around illness and injury. And so, she was a little bit, well, she was disheartened. And she's like, man, that was such a tough year, which it is. It definitely was. And then I said, look, had you not had a coach or had you not worked on these things and had good nutrition and worked with your exercise in a proper way, how much worse do you think it would have been? And she's like, oh, it would have been a lot worse. And I think that helped her kind of get a different perspective. And I think that helped her kind of get a different picture on what fitness and nutrition can do. Because sometimes what we do is we look at them and we create this ideal. And then things happen in life, illness, job, maybe a random injury. It could be lots of different things. And we're like, man, it just sucked. It didn't do anything. But the reality is those things helped so long as we applied them properly. So, I want you to kind of have that. The other thing I'd like to add, if it's okay, Michelle, is you're going through a challenging part of life. You had a baby. Going back to work. That's very challenging. You know, kids going to daycare. Very challenging transitions. When you look at the data on moms and dads that really get through these challenging times or commonly challenging times, they're the ones that have the closest network of support. They belong to a community that they do life with. Oftentimes it's church or family. Do you have that or do you feel alone in all of this? No, I definitely like have it. I'm also the person that kind of like prevents asking for help because like. They're not doing life with you then. Yeah. Yeah. Doing life with people isn't just, hey, how you doing? Good to see you. Let's get lunch. It's those people that you go to and you say, this is hard. This sucks. I don't know how I'm going to do it. You let them know you get real vulnerable. That's the only way that you'll get the kind of connection and support that really makes a difference. If you kind of hold it in and keep it to yourself, then they can't really be there for you in the ways that you need. And I'm going to tell you this, and this is a lesson that I have learned repeatedly. You can't do it all by yourself. You just can't. I also want to add is we have, you have like a call like this with us and we do this with so many people. And what happens a lot of times is someone gets off the call and they're motivated, inspired, whatever. And then they, they start in their head planning like, okay, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that and I'm going to do this. And then maybe they start the next day and they start moving in that direction. And then to Sal's point, life happens, shit goes wrong, wake up, you feel stiffness, you hurt, or you, and you don't accomplish one of those things. And then you immediately start punishing or feeling bad or mad at yourself or what the thing is. And you spiral from there versus being like, man, I can't train today or I'm not going to be able to, that's okay. I'm going to go for a walk today or I'm going to do something. I'm going to stretch. It's to this more like it's, it's okay to take small steps. And so don't have this vision of like this perfect, like what it's got to look like in your head. Be okay. And give yourself permission that there's going to be these moments and times when you just don't got it to do the thing and get it up and take making a choice that is serving you and, and, and a health would be a healthier version of you, like say maybe in the past that spiral would happen and then you would make bad food choices and sit down and watch TV or do something that, you know, is definitely not sort of like just make a healthier choice. Don't do that thing. Go for a walk. And that's a win. That's a win. So what? You didn't get the workout. So what you didn't do X, Y, Z that you thought you were going to do, but don't allow that to spiral and don't set these expectations of you've got to do these things because then you set yourself up for failure. And then when that failure happens, then you spiral versus every day, trying to get a small win, get a small win, even if it is, like I said, just going for a walk. And I feel like. Ever since like talking to you guys, like from the first time and then last month, like I feel like that was who I was, like I was that person, like, you know, I put myself down, beat myself up without it. And I have noticed that ever since talking to you guys, like I have started switching my mindset and that like, when I do have a bad day or whatever, something throws me off, I do try to think and like, not be so negative on myself. And like, even now with this being, getting hurt this month and everything that has been going, I've been kind of a more mindful of like, okay, well I did a walk today. I did an extra 30 minutes of walking. Like I've noticed that change in myself and like, I want to say like, it's a big thank you to you guys. And like opening my eyes up and like helping me switch my mindset. That's great. Great job. That's that, that is a win this month, even because here's the deal. Even if you had the most perfect month, this month, eventually you're going to have rough and hard months. And that's how you got to handle it. You've got to, this is a hard time. I didn't get to do all the things I wanted to do. Okay. This time I didn't beat myself up over it and said, I did this and I did do these things. And you know what? Next month is going to be a better month and just, you got to reframe it. And sounds like you actually did a lot better than you think you did on the mental side. Maybe you didn't hit all these goals that you might've had on the physical side or the diet side or whatever that, but mentally you're already framing this different. And that's the first step of, of really moving and getting that momentum. I only have one, uh, like, you know, moving forward recommendation, if it's okay. So if you can think of the two people in your life that you feel most comfortable doing life with, like just think of two people, you only need one, but just think of two. And then when you hang up, you get on the phone with them and you just tell them, Hey, this is, let me tell you the things that are hard for me right now. I'm going to go back to work a couple of weeks, put the baby in daycare. I got hurt. I'm kind of struggling and I just need, I just need to tell somebody and I need some and you're the person I thought of that is really hard for somebody that felt that feels very self-sufficient i can identify with that but i'm gonna tell you right now it makes a huge difference huge difference to have that person but if you don't let them in they don't even know you know if you got that person i would call them today and i'm telling you it makes a huge you could read all the data i don't know if you're a data person i am when i see the data on that i'm like why am i not doing this is the most effective thing i could possibly do okay not to mention it'll blow you away by how you make them feel oh they love it i mean think about you guys you love people if they came to you you'd be like thank you for coming especially when you're the type of person who doesn't do that yeah because it's it it is rare you'll you'll surprise them and you'll make that person feel loved feel special feel seen and so that in itself has a lot of power too okay i will definitely do that you will yes all right michelle all right yeah thanks for calling me you got this you're good to see you again doing good yeah thank you guys thanks son all right that's the hardest thing uh by the way the things that she mentioned uh a lot of people don't talk about that when you look at again i'm a data guy right you look at the data on moms going back to work it is a major it's traumatic yes that's the exact word it is a major uh transition yeah then there's the guilt of my kid in daycare and how's that gonna go and they're gonna be around other people and they're gonna be around other people and they're gonna be around other people and it's very very challenging and there's a lot of moms out like i'm not gonna tell anybody this is what we do this is what we're supposed to do you just have to do it or i'm just gonna get up and make it happen it's like you know when you work with other moms and other family members who've done it before and you could talk with them through it or what it makes a huge difference well the hard truth is that we've we've normalized something that's not normal at all that's not normal it's not normal to to do that to have to do that that's why it's so hard and so yeah there's it's very very normal to feel that way to go through something like that if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to system automatically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and we'll see you next time and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump