Why Chobani's new CMO Thomas Ranese is taking a tech-driven approach to CPG marketing

[music] Hello and welcome to the Digitay Podcast. I'm Kaylee Barber, media editor at Digitay. And I'm Camiko McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digitay. So Camiko, for us in New York, it is officially freaking cold. Fall has definitely come upon us. And my God, my building, it's like, literally just turned on and I am feeling fall. Like, it is in full effect. How is it down your way? So I am in Atlanta where it is also cold. But in the south, there's this thing where it goes, it's not actual fall yet. It's like pre-liminary fall, pre-liminary winter type deal. So I haven't turned on my AC. I mean, I haven't turned on my heat. If I turn on my AC, I'd be a popsicle. My God. I haven't turned on my heat just yet because I feel like I'm going to get tricked in two weeks. I'm going to get up to 80. Yeah. I can't even pull out my good leggings. That's kind of how it was up here for like the past couple of weeks. And it, like, it decided to be 40. And now it's just that, like, it is just officially 40 degrees. But my old ass radiator has officially kicked on. And so I feel like we're there. But anyway, let's, let's talk about today's episode. Your guest was Chobani CMO, Thomas Rines. And you guys are, I think, talking a little bit about AR-VR, which augmented reality, virtual reality, I think, especially with AR, my scope of understanding of what that is is really limited to like those Snapchat filters. Maybe that dates me a little bit. But I am curious, like, if you're using those things as a marketer to try and engage with young people, what does that look like? Well, Kayleigh, I'll tell you this. We have moved way beyond the Snapchat filters with the dog ears. That the millennials grew up with, I'm dating myself here, and the millennials grew up with. But in a digital marketplace that's getting one, harder to stand out in, and two, more interactive, I think what we're seeing is Chobani and brands like it make this push to be more interactive to create a, I guess a better relationship with the people that are shopping with them. And especially for Chobani, it's a Greek yogurt brand that is expanded beyond yogurt. You've got their, their creamers, you've got, oh, milk and things like that. So they're, they're really trying to create like a brand presence and solidified themselves in the space. And when I talked to Thomas, he said, this is Chobani's push to into marketing, something that they, that they haven't had as heavy of a presence in just because Chobani had such that word of mouth marketing strategy. Before and so now to, to better solidify themselves in the market, get in touch with Gen Z, get in front of Gen Z, they've, they've done some AR VR activations, not by Snapchat, but by a filter that comes to you via QR code. So now that AR VR is more accessible, you know, you see brands like Chobani getting into that space. Fascinating. Well, I will say I am sipping on some of their sweet cream creamer right now in my coffee. So the AR has become, it's very much IRL, not just AR. I will let you guys get into it. Yeah, take it away. Hello and welcome to the digital day podcast. Today we have Thomas Reneese, who is Chobani's new CMO. Hi, Thomas, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Camiko. Thanks for having me. Fantastic, fantastic. We're so excited to have you. I know you only came into this role in August. So a super honored that you're spinning your October talking with us. Well, it's a pleasure to be here, but yeah, it's been a hot minute. So I'm excited to chat. Fantastic. How's the experience been so far? Delicious, as I like to say, absolutely delicious. I think I'm on my 37th flavor of Chobani yogurt and just trying every single product. There are many to try many more than I even realized when I was interviewing for the role. But yeah, it's been it's been a whirlwind and then we can talk about this, but it has felt much more like a tech company than a CPG company, which has been very familiar for me. Yeah, because you have you have a background that kind of extends the extent the spectrum. Exactly. Yeah. No, and I spent the last two, no nearly 15 years in marketing leadership roles at Uber and Google. So yes, it actually feels a lot more like those companies than maybe what a Pepsi or general mills might feel like although I've never worked with those companies. Yeah, it's an exciting experience kind of coming from that background into the CPG food space. So talk to me a little bit about kind of what are I guess your marketing plans as you conquer this new endeavor. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, it has been about, you know, a couple of months now. So I'm still formulating those plans as you might imagine. But you know, I think I think the goal is to first of all help people realize that Chobani is much more than a yogurt company. Right, we like to talk about cells as a modern food company. We've extended beyond Greek yogurt into the categories of creamer and oatmeal and we have a lot more things up our sleeves. And so we really like to think of ourselves as you know, the better food company than we are just a Greek yogurt company. And so helping the world see that and that our mission is to bring good food to all. So I think that's kind of like my overarching kind of brand positioning goal, which will be an objective I have to work on for the next several years as you know, it doesn't happen overnight to sort of shift perceptions for a brand that's this well known and frankly this loved. But they kind of get down to it in terms of like the actual marketing function. I mean, there's a couple things like one is I need to build the marketing muscle. It's been an organization that has grown by pure feet of having an incredible innovative disruptive product and a brand built by the love of the founder and his vision and his belief in packaging and how we went to market in very unconventional ways. Again, you know, very very similar in some ways to Google, which we can talk about. And so it's really now time to build a marketing muscle right what does it mean to actually do marketing as Giovanni and how might we think about that in a less traditional way than the CPG category, which I think is why they hire to be. And then when it comes to the business, we need to drive growth for these products. So we're in many more products than just Greek yogurt our Greek yogurt platform in and of itself is quite diverse from our core Greek yogurt to zero sugar yogurt to drinks. And so how do we help people sort of see and enjoy and engage with those products. You know, and I think then the third goal for me is to stoke love for the brand. No, it's it's an incredible brand. That's why I'm here. It's one with him with amazing heart and passion, both for the product, but also for the world around us. And I think people people know the story of our founder has incredible purpose and humanitarianism. And they know our product and you know, so many people tell me they eat it every day. They love the product. And how do we connect the dots on those things and help Giovanni become a love mark, you know, a brand that's sort of in their lives and bigger ways and just sort of at the breakfast table. And I think that's the goal because that as you know will sustain growth and sort of preference and you know, really kind of healthy future for the company if we do that well. And like you said, you come from some pretty strong brands. So curious kind of what do you plan to take from your background? How do you translate those skills from the tech sector into this new food CPG sector? Yeah, great question. I mean, so I love talking about just the similarities between particularly Google and Giovanni, right? And I was going to Google in 2010, you know, it was about probably at that point, 10, 12 years old and very similar state. So Giovanni is now 15 years old, which people don't realize we've been around that long and really transformed the Greek yogurt category. But you think about Google and you think about some of the similarities to Giovanni. First of all, founder led, right? Incredible visionaries with incredible heart to, by the way, Larry and Sergey are incredibly valued driven mission oriented. And I think that's really the epitome of that. Both companies created a product that was innovative and disruptive in its space, right? Kind of challenge people's conventions around kind of what it was to sort of use the web, what it is to think about yogurt. I mean, it's very interesting to think about search and yogurt. I mean, being similar, but like very similar, like really innovative product and product obsessed, right? And so, the founders, they all obsess about providing the best experience for their users. The brand grew not because of marketing, right? If anything, Google didn't really invest in marketing for over a decade, it's been ironic for a company that sells advertising, but didn't really think about marketing as a necessary tool for growth because the product was so innovative itself and had early adoption and momentum. And so, the brand became a reflection of the founders vision and their personalities. You think about the search bar, right? And the simplicity of what Larry and Sergey brought to Google and the clarity that that provided to the user in this kind of very messy, kind of form formulating web. And so, that's kind of what Humdy did with yogurt. He kind of provided this incredibly differentiated cop that went on the shelf to challenge people's idea of what yogurt was and what that physical experience could be and a very refreshing, very clear, very emotive kind of design. And so, the brand was built based on that, right? And so, you have this incredible brand, but not because there was a brand strategy, it was just really the vision of the founder. And then, when you think about where you go from there, so, I mean, we talked a lot about this when I was at Google, it was all about launch and iterate, right? Which in the software space, you can do very easily, right? Put out new features, put out new products, and as a result, you can sort of see what works and kind of invest in those things and have momentum and then deprecate the ones that don't. Well, really interesting for a package, good companies, but that's kind of how troppo has done innovation for the last 10 years. It's like continue to sort of create new incredibly nutritious, delicious products, put them on the shelf, see if people like them. like them and if they do you know grow just distribution, invest in the marketing, and then off we go. And if they don't, we take them off the shelf, and we kind of move on. Which is a really very different and much more agile way of working in the CPG category. So all those things are very similar. And again, like I started, didn't really invest in marketing, really invested in design, packaging, and really have a legacy and a pedigree of doing that very well. But now it's time. So like Google, 10, 12 years in, you want to grow, you want to enter new markets, you want to enter new platforms, you actually have a lot more to offer than just search. I mean, Google is so much more than a search company. And Giovanni is now at that same stage. And so how do we think about what marketing can do to help the company and the brand get to new apps? Absolutely. Which leads to, you guys are supposed to reach an activation, which is with, I love it when a plan comes together. Which is what you guys have done with the AR in time for Halloween. So it talks me a little bit about this latest campaign. You've got the Giovanni Flip where people can scan a QR code and get an AR experience. Talk to me about that. Yeah. So this was an incredibly successful project. I take zero credit for it because I arrived and the team had given birth to this, I think it was incredible initiative. And I think an example of the kinds of things that I want to see us do a lot more of going forward. And so yeah, so it's called Halloween Flip. Flip is the product. It's this incredible nutritious and delicious snack yogurt product where you flip the dry ingredients into the yogurt. And so we have incredible flavors from Coco Loco to cookies and cream, key lime pie. I mean, just really fun flavors for the family. And we wanted to reposition the products from being kind of an adult snack to a basically food that's fun for the whole family. And so Halloween just became this incredible opportunity because who thinks of yogurt when they think of Halloween? And so again, thinking about being very unconventional, here we are bringing Halloween to the yogurt aisle. We created entirely new packaging to wrap around the four packs to bring kind of the Halloween fun and the light to the consumer. And then we created a QR code with an AR experience. You can do virtual trick and treating. And so everyone gets a prize from phone, screen sabres, to stickers, and hats to many fridges, stock full of flip yogurt. And so we take in the whole experience based on the product with a new packaging and brought it into the virtual world to connect people and interact with Giovanni Brand. Absolutely. Which is really exciting. AR right now in VR for that matter is a really, really big space. So talk to me about some of the benefits. What kind of drew you guys toward working in the AR VR space? Yeah. So Giovanni has done a number of these things in the past. I mean, I think about a year ago, as we were introducing "Oh, milk to the world," we created a Roblox Metaverse experience for people to experience and engage with, "Oh, milk, particularly to engage a younger audience." And I think that's going to be one of the things that I think about too, as we move forward, which is 15-year-old brand. How do we actually make sure we stay relevant for Gen Z and younger folks? And so I think the Metaverse in AR is kind of a way to extend the brand. But again, thinking a little bit outside the CPG box. I mean, the shopping experience in stores is still so critical. And frankly, we can't overlook that. And I think there's some really interesting things we can continue to do there. And that's why the packaging for Halloween Flip was so exciting because you brought this kind of burst of Halloween to the yogurt aisle. But now how do we take that back home? And frankly, the shopper is not the consumer. So if you have the whole family enjoying this product together, particularly young people, how do we actually give them a way to experience and interact with Giovanni? And what is Giovanni? And back to one of my early objectives, it's more than just the product. We have to be a brand that's relevant in people's lives. And this gives you a way to interact. And so AR obviously gives us a lot of interesting ways to play with the brand and to engage with people and people of all ages and all experiences in all parts of the country at any time. Yeah. I think what I'm seeing and hearing from you about Giovanni is there's this progressive step into the experimental space with the AR, the VR, the metaverse and things like that. So curious is AI or any other aspects of Web3 kind of on the radar for you guys? - Great question. I mean, I think everyone's asking that question and sort of trying to figure out what role does it play in marketing? And how do we use it in ways that are both appropriate but effective? And so I don't think we have a clear strategy on that. But I'm pretty excited about it. So I did a short-term gig before I started at Giovanni. And we use mid-journey quite a lot in thinking about creative development in the conceptual stage, which is something that I'd love to see us start to do a bit more of at Giovanni. And so that's more of an internal side. Like how do we use some of the AI tools? I think there's got to be really interesting ways to think about AI when it comes to measurement and modeling for different impacts and predictability of our marketing effectiveness. So there's some things like that which are more internal in nature. I don't know yet from a consumer and shopper experience. I mean, as we think about personalizing those experiences, helping people discover new products, maybe creating even bespoke menus or recipes that people might want to use with their products. I imagine there'd be quite a lot of things we can do. But early days for everyone and very early days for us on that one too. Yeah, and not for nothing. There's a lot of unknowns in that space that I think has people a little apprehensive to kind of go full-fledged toward it. Yeah, exactly. So we walk in cautiously. But I think the culture of Giovanni has been one that's embraced innovation. It's been very agile, fast to move, very quick to sort of challenge the conventions of the category. And I think we have a lot of love and respect from our retailers because of that. Because we can do things that some of the bigger food companies just can't. And that's how we've grown. And so I kind of want to make sure we keep that flame alive when it comes to the marketing team, right? Continually embracing innovation and trying new things and seeing what works and what doesn't work. And being OK with that. And finding ways to engage with our consumers and where they are. And I think we have to be careful on this one, right? Our consumer is ready for AI when it comes particularly in their food, right? Obviously, I'm not talking about AI in the food. But when it comes to the food category, how do we think about the readiness of the consumer to really experience something using artificial intelligence? Yeah, I don't even know what AI and my food would look like. [LAUGHTER] It's a great idea, that was it. [LAUGHTER] That's what we do on the digital day podcast. We come up with ideas in real time. Here's a fun question before we move away from Halloween. Obviously, right now, the landscape has a lot going on, bursting at the same when it comes to AR, VR, AI, data, measurement, and a slew of other things. In honor of spooky season, what is the scariest part of being a marketer right now? Oh, that's a great question. I love it. Look, I mean, I think as much as marketing has evolved, since the '50s, we think about the Madison Avenue day of advertising. And as much as digital marketing has accelerated, not just over the last several decades, but even the last five years with COVID and thinking about how it's accelerated just for the CPG category and the retail and grocery category, I think it's still so hard to know what works and how to measure success. This question, I think, is the eternal question. It's the one that I think should keep every CMO up at night. It's just no silver bullet for how you measure something. And there's an art and a science that, frankly, I think needs to be preserved and balanced, because the art is as beautiful and as effective of what makes marketing marketing. But how do you bring more rigor and measurement to that? And I think the challenge becomes, in the wrong hands, you become very hyper focused on things that may be myopic and what really drives long-term brand health and growth and might have short-term impact or even overemphasized, the short-term impact you're having at the expense of some other objectives, longer term. And so I think that's the thing that I still-- I love the challenge of that, but that's definitely the thing that I struggle with, particularly in a company that wants to continue to grow and invest in marketing new ways. How do I make that case and feel confident of it in a way that helps us actually do the right things? We'll be right back after this message from our sponsor. So we're moving past October and spooky season and into Thanksgiving, Christmas, other holidays. So kind of curious, what's your body's approach for that? Are we planning to dive into those holidays similar? What does that look like? Yeah, good question. Probably can't say too much yet. I mean, it has been only 10 weeks, and so I'm still formulating the plans with the team. You know, we're thinking about the holidays, and we think a lot about just the communities that we serve. I've been-- Humdy is an incredible humanitarian and visionary. It really believes we can change the world one cup of yogurt at a time. And then it's really much more than the cup of yogurt. It's how we make the cup of yogurt. And so that starts with treating our employees and our suppliers with a great love and respect, but then thinking about the communities that we live in and how we're impacting those. And so just actually in October during UN hunger, hunger day, I guess national hunger day, international hunger day, we launched a new initiative called Let's Eat Week to actually take a child hunger. Because 9 million young people go hungry in this country every day, which is incredible for the wealthiest country in the world. And so as a food company and one that's really trying to spread the love and bring good food to all, we really believe it's our responsibility to play a part in solving that problem. So as you think through to the holidays and beyond, how do we think about the ways we show up with purpose and heart at a time of reflection and celebration when not everyone perhaps has even a meal on the table? And so that's something, you know, certainly, we'll be thinking about. In addition to how do we sort of bring more, you know, surprise and delight to the grocery aisle, which is important to drive, you know, love for the brand and drive for sales. But it's connecting all those things that I think is part of what we need to think about going forward is making sure purpose and product feel like they're connected. And so people understand that this vision and this great heart of the company and the founder is connected to an incredible product. And that product is what fuels the ability for us to have an impact. in the world around us in a way that should hopefully allow people to feel good about eating our product and eating our yogurt every day. I want to dig into further into the idea of purpose. I think it was like a big to-do maybe last year in the year before the idea of brand purpose and every brand having like a stance and things like this. So curious, how do you manage brand purpose while also managing profitability kind of you get set the heart of a CMOS job? Yeah, you know, purpose became such a focus during COVID for obvious reasons and a lot of the work that I led at Uber and I also led social impact and addition to marketing was very much about figuring out how the company can show up at a time of need for not just the the people on our platform, our drivers in particular, but for the communities around us. But I think it was a bit of a backlash following COVID as well where it felt like folks maybe the pendulum had swung too far right and it wasn't about the business anymore. It was just about showing your values and frankly there was a lot of just lipstick on the pig around this right and it was a lot of just very shallow work being done versus kind of true meaningful commitment. So I think there's I think it was the right amount of backlash frankly because I think it's the right conversation to have. But I've always believed that first of all purpose needs to come from the heart of the company needs to be true to the values and those values need to be connected to your product in your business. It's about what you make and how you make it and if it doesn't start there then it is just you know performative. And so that's why when you think about what we do and taking on child hunger. First of all it's about treating our employees with the most respect and we have higher than average minimum wages for our factory workers. We give everyone in the factory the same benefits as you get in the corporate office right they all get 401k accounts like we've created an environment in our factory that is actually very respectable and gives people a place to eat with natural light and it's like a beautifully designed environment. So like we do a lot to make sure we take care of our employees first because they're the ones making our product and if they put love into our product our product is going to be better. But then how do we think about the communities around us and how we're serving them in a way that actually addresses kind of kind of our core values and that's why child hunger becomes our focus because it's so much about making sure that everyone has good food and that's a major problem in this country. So to that's where I think the connection is made because then if people are buying our yogurt they know there's a connection to the food and the food serving more than just the person who's buying and putting on their table at home and I think that's where I think profit and purpose can kind of connect. Zoom out for me and talk to me about kind of what the rest of the media channel mix looks like for you guys. What are the levers are we pulling especially in a crowded expensive digital economy right now? Yeah that's a great question and another one where I'm digging in now with the team to sort of think through what our strategy should be and so I'm only a couple of months in to sort of thinking about this and one of the things that I loved to talk about and focus on at Uber which I'm thinking a lot about here which is actions not advertising. You know I think we live in an age where people are very skeptical of ads and obviously just kind of traditional advertising doesn't really have the same relevance and poignancy and it's also a very noisy landscape and so even though you can target you know ads you know in a more personalized way using digital mediums it's still you know really hard to break through and so that's where I think if it comes down back to the values of the company and how you show up in the world that should be the start of a great marketing program and should be the start of what you think about is advertising which is to then amplify those experiences and so what I mean by action is not ads is starts with the product right what kind of new innovations new flavors new partnerships that might actually help people see the product differently and then you have something to have a conversation around when it comes to ads you think about packaging right what we just did with Halloween right so you've created a whole experience that's both physical and virtual and then you have the ability to engage in social in a way that actually has some meaning and something for someone to interact with versus just talking at them. You think about the physical store experience and again I think you know this is still a very relevant channel it was actually just an article in the Wall Street Journal about sampling and how sampling is kind of now a more effective ROI than then digital advertising I believe right you get to try the actual product and so how might you create new experiences in new channels or new aisles to help people kind of see and discover and again use ads to kind of help tell that story right whether before or after virtual experiences like the metaverse and what we can do there we have a Chaboni Cafe which is a way to engage so all these become I think the foundation to the program and then the channels kind of amplify and connect people to those experiences and so then it's about creating content for social right and that could be worth organic and paid right then it's about creating kind of long form content that could perhaps run as pre-roll on some you know streaming channel and so I feel like it kind of gives you the ability to then think about the mix in a more customized way you know the the just assume back out for a minute like as we've been looking at this even this week linear TV still plays a big part in the CPG traditional media mix and that's a lot of feedback I'm getting from our media agency partner that's what we're hearing you know quote unquote hearing from consumers in these surveys on what channels are effective though you have to wonder how much they understand the difference between linear and addressable and OTC and really it's all just video right exactly so really so I think video is still critical I'm not sure about the role of linear TV I mean I think that has to be re-evaluated as it has been for the last you know number of years and there's still a really good place for that particularly when there's occasions that people are coming together live sports yeah totally right like a kind of live event so I think of the best example of that and some content when it's really specific to the brand and how you want to show up right and so you think about content with food for instance with for something like tribani or some of our values but otherwise I think it's really kind of moving away from that and having a much more kind of digital and an OTT kind of approach to this yeah absolutely I am curious kind of what that pendulum looks like given there's more streaming services in the space and will we ever see a revival of of live linear television with live TV and whatnot and then even with a writer strikes and Hollywood strikes kind of how that plays into this as well totally yeah and then how do we reach younger audiences who you know don't even think about the television right I mean it's probably not even something they're gonna know what it was 10 years what's the television right yeah exactly having to explain to my niece in that view that there was at one point several remote controls for a single television so glad those days are gonna be over actually yeah I think that's something else that's incredibly important to note it's just kind of the role that social media plays in you guys's marketing strategy it's obviously you know a mainstay if not the bulk of a lot of digital strategies at this point but what does that look like for you guys are we testing into new channels threads tick tock that type of thing yeah I mean I think like everyone who are still kind of finding our way I think we're for an incredibly loved brand that we have some very dedicated followers but I think it's time to step back and think about how do we bring new people into the fold and really expand our community younger people and so we've been doing a lot to experiment on tick tock creating a lot of kind of you know you GC like content both in in not maybe just in house like in the office like literally walking around the floor is talking to employees on the street in front of our cafe kind of finding ways to use tick tock that I think feels more you know authentic to the medium and and reaching new folks so that's definitely one I have to say I'm not sure what to make of threads love your your take on kind of where that is it feels like it's stalled you know big time and so it's a little hard to know why you'd go from a very visual format on Instagram to threads without kind of the visual kind of occasion and with a very different audience and you have another platforms and so I think we're all struggling with that one a bit but I think it's time to step back for Giovanni anyway and think about what is the role of all these channels how do we bring new people into the fold expand our community and create content that's truly meaningful and engaging and again that's comes back to me that to actions that ads what are we doing in the world what are we creating that's not just for marketing that's for our product and for the ways that we show up around their values and then connecting that to content that we want to put out on different channels for different folks I also think food is just an incredibly rich category when it comes to you know thinking about content and there's so much to explore for the role of yogurt is it's just not just the breakfast food it's something can be used across ethnicities in terms of cooking and across you know day parts in terms of meals and occasions so I think there's a whole lot we can do to explore and engage with people and find new connections that we really haven't done yet yeah man I've seen people putting yogurt on pancakes I didn't know that was the thing yogurt and eggs we serve an incredible egg dish at the Giovanni cafe and so that's made of yogurt so yeah I mean dips and spreads right obviously it's incredible middle eastern tradition with yogurt so lots to explore absolutely absolutely um the last thing that I wanted to ask you is looking at the greater landscape are there any trends happening in marketing right now that you're excited about innovations, experimentation, messaging that type of thing hmm I mean I do think thinking about how AI can accelerate some more creative development I think excites me and not to replace the work of creatives because I would never suggest that but I think it just allows you to explore um and ideate in a way that I think we haven't had tools to do before um so I am I am excited about that one at at that phase of the creative development not to actually do the work um because I think it just kind of opens your minds to possibilities and gets you to see things faster than you might otherwise and you know we all can benefit from more speed and agility and how we show up in the world this day kind of relevant in the moment so that's certainly something I'm I'm excited about um you know I think there's a lot to be done to around creative messaging testing and so how do we actually and I think this is often overlooked in tech companies maybe it's my more practice in CBG companies. But how do we actually make sure that we're using technology to assess what's working and not working before we invest a whole lot of money and putting, you know, amplification and spend behind it? So that's something that I'd love to see. We could do perhaps more agile and more agile ways using technology. So that's probably another area that I'm looking to bring to the work at your body. - Absolutely. Listen, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. (laughing) - Yes, there's a lot to do, but it's an exciting time. And there's so much momentum for the brand and for the product and for the business. And so it's just an incredible train to jump on and figure out how do we get it to the next place. - Fantastic. Well, the train of this conversation is coming to an end. I so appreciate you spending some time with me. Is there anything else I'm missing asking that you think is important to note? - No, I mean, I just do, I made a little advertising for marketing at Giovanni. I'm hiring and looking to build the team and build and add people to this incredible crew of designers and creatives to do that I have in-house. And so I'm looking for product marketers and consumer marketers. And so if anyone's interested in jumping on this train with us and riding it quickly to the next stop, please reach out. - Thomas, I can't thank you enough for spending some time with us afternoon. I really appreciate you and enjoy the rest of your day. - Thanks for having me. - That brings us to the end of this episode of the Digitay podcast. Thank you to everyone for listening. And please don't forget to share this episode with someone who you think would enjoy it. You can even write and leave a comment on Apple podcasts. (upbeat music)