Why Can’t Tottenham Score A Goal?

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Welcome listeners to the Extrinch. My name's Wendy and I'm joined by my psychic investor and buddy. Hello, buddy. Hello, Wendy and our tactics guy and a man who never, never dithers in the box. It's Nathan Maygart, kind of. Never, never hesitates. Never, never takes one touch too many. Always get my shot off as soon as possible. Some might say I'm trying to see who early. Oh, my goodness. I'm blushing Nathan. I'm blushing. The good to see you guys. How are you doing? Yeah, you know, you know, fantastic, wonderful. Nice pod work last week. Really enjoyed it. I never listened back to this podcast because I don't need to because I'm on it. Right. So it was really nice listening to the Extrinch last week. I really enjoyed it. We're getting that when we get to listen to, to behind the lightens. Absolutely. Which by the way, buddy, what, what an addition. Absolutely banging. I'm loving it. Genuinely, I'm loving it. Thank you very much, Wendy. I, um, I sent a voice note in post forest to, um, to, to, to rich. You appeared on behind the lines as we checked about spurs, forest in an emotional state. Yeah. Well, well, straight after the game and I called it a disgraceful performance that I can't believe the Premier League actually paid for this football. And then obviously I sent my voice note in and then they talk about my voice note and they were perfectly happy with it. They could have believed my take on that being a miserable game before they, they thoroughly enjoyed. They said it was a good nil nil. Wow. And, um, yeah. And now this week we have another fantastic nil nil to talk about. It's just they keep coming. And the spurs not scoring the goal has become, I don't know about you, it's probably a bit of a fetish for me. I'm like, how long, how long can we, how long can we keep it going? You know, how many more nil nils have we got in the chamber? I do want to start off with a little bit of a kind of bigger picture discussion before the museum in on Everton. And, um, Dimes and Trays are asked, is two points from four games with zero goals scored bad? Or are people brackets me overreacting? Probably both. Probably both. I would, I would imagine that, that all the times, listen, spurs are a big, big club, enormous club. Millions of spurs fans in the world. What that means is that any one time, there are thousands of people who are way, way, way too positive. There are thousands of people who are way way too critical. So all times, all bases are covered on all players on all phases of the club. So you're good to go on any take you want, any, any take reacting to other takes. It's in the bag that you don't need to create a straw man because spurs are so big that there is every single opinion that could possibly be had. Not only that, but there is someone out there who believes a bizarre absurd argument that you want to argue against. Incredibly strongly, they think it's the most important thing in the world. So, so you're good, you covered. Uh, two points from four games, not great. I would say overall, but also don't, don't panic just yet. Hopefully. And in fact, my concern with the two points from four games is the panic. Is the emotion around the club? Is a particular, uh, Italian man who has, maybe somewhat slightly unregulated emotional control doing some pantomime. Yeah, I'm talking about you. No, I'm talking about deserving, doing his pantomime act on the sideline, being all throwing his hands about when we make the bad pass and doing, uh, you know, angry coaching to Matties tell in front of all the fans and the TV cameras and the stuff he's saying in the press conference when you, when you read the transcript is completely reasonable, but the way he delivers it is very emotive and I, and obviously, then you have the media, you have the external stuff spurs been all this money, they haven't scored a goal. That's my concern. Not what's actually happening because if we could just, you know, pack, talk them away into a cardboard box at full time and then they come back out again at the start of the next match, then we're making progress match on match. The players are jelling, players of building fitness, you know, growing those connections, understanding what's going on a little better each week each week. And that's great. That's fine. But unfortunately, there are these fucking dickheads out there who get together on a Monday afternoon and records a podcast with all their opinions and all of that, all of the media, not really just us obviously and the fans and everything is creating this, this pressure. And I'm worried, I'm worried, I'm a little worried about the Zurbian depression because if we go back to the end of the last season, he came in, he said these guys need an arm around the shoulder. They need some positivity. They need a guiding hand. They're in a, they're in that sort of depressive cycle with their upset at the self of being upset at the self of being upset at the self. They need some support and he performs that role I thought perfectly and we stayed up. Now a new season has begun and he wants things his way. He is getting a little touchy if you ask me and so is the fan base and so is the media and so are we and everything else. There is no way to kind of untouch yourself though because the detachiness is something that once, once you've started on the path to touchiness, it just builds because now the media know what to look for and the journalist know what to ask for and it's just going to build. So it's very difficult to reverse that cycle but I think it's something that he has to do because you're right, if this continues at this trajectory, there's going to be a huge fallout or an explosion and we can't afford for this to explode this early, this project. Yeah, I think he still is in the kind of arm around the chocolate mode slightly. I'm still hearing those messages overall from him. I believe in these players and we need to give them time to gel, that still comes across quite clearly most weeks to me. Where I am is, and I said I wouldn't zoom in on the Everton game straight away but I've found that game vastly improved from anything seen so far and I watched it in a really weird way. I was at a family get together so I couldn't watch it live and I knew that the result was going to be spoiled for me by someone there so I just followed the score so I watched it knowing the score which is always a really weird experience and not something I like to do. Actually, there's a sub conversation for us to have about watching matches not live or not being able to watch matches live that I think will be interesting. Okay, put a pin in that. But yeah, watching it back, having seen some of the narrative, some of the discussion with this chord and sort of understanding the frustration of it being 0.0. I was actually quite pleasantly surprised when I did finish the game and I thought this is way better than I thought it would be based upon the reaction I'd seen online and the scoreline because a nil nil is an annoying, a nil nil home draw with Everton is an annoying scoreline. We should be expecting to win that game with. But I am seeing incremental improvement now. It feels to have not scored, feels very bleak. That feels like, oh my goodness, this is going to be a record that stays with us for some time and we're going to get laughed at and it feels horrible. And also, we've seen this before. We've seen the team take time to gel, take time to kind of come together before and then when it did come together, oh my goodness, it came together so, so well. And obviously I'm talking about Pogetino and there were some rough moments at the beginning of Pogetino's tenure. And I get this kind of sense of confidence from Deserby in the same way I got it from Pogetino that don't worry, this will work. They just need to figure it out, which is very, very reassuring and I find quite calming. But then when the results subsequently don't come, when you don't then win the next game, after he said that again, it's like, okay, but I need to see something now because you're starting to lose me. For me, this game was the first one where I did see something and I did think, oh, okay, I think we're close. I think it's close to coming together and I, I think there are growing signs of, like you said, Nathan, understandings on the pitch developing. I think I thought van Hecker was absolutely outstanding and we can come back to the others in game in a lot more detail, but that was really encouraging. I thought that was great. Obviously the front three, there's a whole discussion to be had about their performance in general. But overall, we're moving the right direction in my opinion. We look very, very solid defensively. We aren't quite moving the ball into the final third effectively yet, but I think there were some moments where we did. We just not doing it consistently. There were some problems against the pack defense, which I think is a deserving trademark, frankly, anyway. And you know, is what we rely on 1D1Wingers for in a long term, which we only have one of them in this game. And I'm not too worried. What I will say is, this is clearly a transition season and isn't going to be the season I thought it was. I feel disappointed that at the start of the season, I felt very bold, very confident. I was like, amongst my friends, I wasn't being too over-the-top, but amongst my friends, I was like, you know what, I've really fancied this year. There's so many teams in transition and we can really exploit that. We're in a single competition season. We've signed well. We've revamped the squad. We've got a lot more big hitters in the team. We've gone for Premier League experience so they can do it now. They can take advantage now. And I do feel disappointed that, you know, already we have, you know, 10 points down on where we could be. But I think we can still be a decent team this year, and I think we will be. You sound like someone who's just been given a cheer pudding. Like, it's disgusted. It's not nice. It doesn't matter how you dress it up, but then you eat it, go, no, it's not as bad as I thought. When it was still pretty bad, I mean, there was The first 15 minutes of that match, I was just like, holy shit, we're fixed. We are fixed. That's it. Look how many times we're getting in behind. Look how many times Savio's getting free. He's crossing the ball with his back here, was he's going out of play. Look at this. It's coming. It's coming. And then we enter. And I'm convinced. I'm going to do a dissertation on the never zone at Tottenham. Then we don't score. And that's the problem. We don't score. And then we put ourselves in this cage of solitude, of doubt. And the game runs away from us. And then all of a sudden, Everton stopped bundling some shots, Tyrick George, but there's a couple of runs and starts to scare us at the crowd getting nervous and we're so fragile man. And especially at home, we're so fragile that if we don't score in the first 15 minutes of, we don't score ever, then the game runs away from us and that's what I'm worried about. But I would have expected to have been stalled, instilled into this team, something stronger by now because he has been here a long time and yes, there's been players that have come and gone, but I would have expected. I think he's underperforming as a manager right now, and I'm not happy with him. He's on a list. He's on the naughty step. He's on the naughty step, for sure, because the performative thing of full time, you're allowed to do that if you've won the game and your name is PEP. You're allowed to do that kind of stuff. You can't do that stuff if you're deserving and you've been fired at Marseille and you're struggling to score go, I don't think you can, you can't do that. PEP does it to the opposing team's players. On that incident, having read about it, again, having read about it before I saw it, I was expecting way worse and when I saw it, I was just like, oh, this is pretty mild. What he's said today in the pre-lippable press conference is that he was trying to tell something about body shape during the match, but he couldn't hear because of the crowd. He wanted to go and make his point quickly after the game so that he heard and understood. Look, my personal preference is that kind of stuff happens behind closed doors, especially with a young player where there's already a perception that they are the problem. There is a bit of an anti-tail sentiment amongst the fan base forming. He gets a lot of groans on match days from the crowd. He got more in this game and I feel like you can protect the player by having those conversations behind closed doors. It's not my preference, but it did feel quite a mild, just getting a message across. Not the biggest deal in the world, I'm saying it's part of a small, a tiny part of a broader package. Him being a bit rattled. When Jid spent and Mickey van der Ven walk straight past Thomas Frank, we were like, "Okay, it happens," but it's the first kind of moments of distrust. It's the first moments of rebellion that then spark into something huge and I didn't like it. You're right, Wendy. Everybody knows that Telle has been at the kind of brunt. He's been at the cold face of a lot of the criticism this team has received. It's Telle's fault. It's the problem. Soon as he's not on the pitch, we're going to be better and I don't think it was smart to do that in front of everybody. Could have been done behind closed doors quite easily. Yeah, fair. Let's dig into the everything game a bit more and there's so much to say about this match, I think, but starting off with the lineup, I think, is an interesting jumping off point because as you've just said, buddy, people have been clamoring for Telle to be replaced. I think I wasn't around for the pretty much team lineup excitement, but I imagine there was quite a lot of excitement because Fernandez was in. My moves was playing wise, so Lanky was through the middle and Telle and Gallagher two players that aren't exactly fan favorites were benched alongside that, obviously, both fullback had to be changed. Maybe some of that excitement was dampened by that. What was the vibe? What did you guys think about the lineup? Oh, I know. So on the Saturday I was out, I had a day out with my wife and we were going to go watch the game in the pub and so the lineup came out and I tweeted, "I'm out." But as if to imply, I'm not able to make my usual lineup graphic, but I think it will be Marmoush left wing Fernandez is at the 10th. And then I put my phone away to watch the game. You had to have the rest of my day or whatever. And when I checked it, I had like 20 replies being like, "I'm so sick of these fans giving up, saying that they want the manager out after just a couple of games." I'm like, "No, no, no, I mean like I'm physically young now." Oh, everyone just assumes by this point you're in cave dwelling goblin that never leaves the house. Fair enough, fair enough. I think they assume that I'm just ready to give up on any coach after four games. Yeah. That's that's so funny that they interrupted I'm out as in I'm done with this team. I'm done with this. I'm done with this. Because because because we take my precious corner Gallagher out the team. Yeah. Yeah. I get the I get the theory of it and I'm not going to say I was against it, but pretty soon into the game I was just like we are everything that Marmoush is good at of dropping off the center backs, getting the ball turning and facing them up. We've just been off because now we've been so everything that we got excited about in last week's in focus about Marmoush is just we threw out the window because all of a sudden he's pushed wide and even though he is fine wide, I think he needs to work with a better number nine. So Lanky had an anonymous game. He was not really involved and he was totally miles off it. So Lanky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. I didn't like Marmoush wide. I didn't think it worked. I didn't think he was horrible, but it was way less effective and I do think that if we played him through the middle, it probably would have been a different story. I liked Savio in this game. I thought he was pretty relentless, but he was very obviously tired towards the end and there was that occasion where Jacob Ryan came in and Savio tried to kind of go around him and just lack the energy to beat him on the burst. That was a clear sign to me that he'd had it by that point in the game. I thought both fullbacks despite not being our first choice arguably. I thought both fullbacks were really impressive in this game, particularly Archie Gray. I thought he was in our top three players. He really surprised me with his overall game, his passing and movement. I thought, "X" in this match. I'm not an Archie. I am an Archie Gray believer, but I think had we been able to partner Savio with Poro, I think we would have had far better joy against Michelinco and Torek George. I think we would have absolutely done them in on that right hand side. Gray came inside and did some nice things, wasted a couple of opportunities. I don't think he had the greatest game. Robinson looked decent as well. Robinson did have a better game than Gray. I like Gray a lot, but I just don't like him at right back. I liked Gray's movement, but I can understand why you might feel still hampered if you're missing Poro. If you look at the expected goals for this game, Football, Pius, Opta have spurs at 0.7, expected goals, Everton at 1.1. I think we lost the game on XG, right? I think that people will see that and understandably say, "Well, that doesn't match the high test for me, because in that opening 20 minutes, we had a bunch of chances, but actually, as we alluded to in the intro, a lot of them didn't materialise as actual shots." We had Fernandez through, and he hesitated, Savinio, maybe could have got a shot off a couple of times and didn't. This is one of the many issues with using simple gaming spectacles, of course. You do need to adjust for that mentally a little bit, but I don't think you can go the other way and be like, "We absolutely battered Everton, and we're unlucky not to score, because it was all mainly that opening 20 minutes, and then things slowed down, and I think this is what Buddy was talking about earlier, once we fluff a couple of opportunities, we start to get a bit nervy." There was also a tactical change, I think, at half time. In the first half of the way I saw it, Everton were defending in a 442, when they were pushed deep, which is very standard, and because we were doing the classic thing of occupying the five channels, we could stretch a fallback out, and the most luck we were having was that inside-right channel, which is where Fernandez was attacking, where Gray was arriving. Because of the threat that Savinio offered, Dragon of Player sometimes two players outwired with him. Salanky's pinning a centre-back, and we dart into that space, and that's where we had a lot of our luck. And then in the second half, I think Everton defended slightly more of a 4-5-1, which first of all means that they're no longer being outnumbered in midfield. They can match just player for player in midfield. And secondly means, once the ball goes wide, it's then a very quick easy move to drop that midfielder at even one place deeper and go to a 5-4-1, allowing their fallbacks to be aggressive on our wingers. And so I think we had a situation where DeZurbey doesn't really want his team to do what I think of it as the Poster Cogley parts, which is the centre-back to winger parts, and you just play all the way around the outside. He wants us to go in to then go out. And so in the first half, we did a bunch of going in to go out. So the ball arrives, it comes out in that sort of neutral body shape for Savinio, and the fallback has to go from tucked in to rush out. And then Savinio especially gets a moment, or Andy Robertson can receive in space and here at first, second touch cross, and we have those straight. So in the second half, we can't make that initial central progress. We're forced wide early than we'd like to and then the wide players receiving like back to Goal with pressure from behind them and I think that really slowed us down in second half and we didn't really have a solution to that Pagan half in the late game We have Matty's telling Kudus in wide areas who are fresher and there's just more general with to our play We may be double up wide a little bit and we have a bit more success right at the death a bit more threat right at the death But there is that I don't know what 70 minute period 60 minute period in the middle of the game where we didn't really create a lot So I don't think it's the case that we absolutely battered everything silly and we're unlucky to get away the goal I also don't think we were absolutely dreadful and 0.7 expected goals probably underrated. We have a question from Dave Cash windy everton blocked eight of 14 shots that seems high is it was it due to a luck be something everton did Defensively or see where and when we were taking the shots and could it have led to some of the noticeable headers that had to stay In to shoot when it looked like we had some good chances. Yeah, I really like the second part of this question because I definitely think that's true Everton blocked a lot of shots simply because of how passive and how deep they defended like that's what a low block does And I think that meant that maybe we get into the box and could we have shot first time maybe but we want to really create a Super high quality chance and that moment of hesitation costs us. I Yeah, I don't think that we I don't think that it was a couple of chances I don't think those add up to like a whole expected goal between them If I think if I think about the shots the most notable shots for me in this game or that some of the key moments I think of the Fernandez move where he ends up right on the Free on the inside channel and kind of stumbles awkwardly like does he get his touch or body shape right at all And so when he does get a shot away, it's it's easy to to see off medicine slots that far post first time I mean, I think Fernandez in a couple of weeks probably probably does and then I think of Tanali late on like he's made a great burst forward He's striding onto the ball and then it's it's easily blocked I think that's probably tired legs and a lack of sort of compose you due to that again I think a couple of weeks three weeks time we see a better end shot from that What else there's yeah, there's probably a couple of others I mean, I feel like there's also a lot of cutbacks that were just clear or didn't quite find us by a but the the blocking Yeah, to me seem to be through a partly due to our own lack of sharpness and probably lack of confidence in front of goal Because we haven't scored a goal this season in 400 minutes now. Yeah, do you think we need a new metric to measure Tottenham Almost like expected expected goals something does that does that exist does that metric exist? There's a metric called expected threat which yeah, which which when Which when I first saw it sort of brought into the public sphere by I forgotten his first name sorry begins with K But his son is seeing I was like this is really interesting this really this really makes sense But then longer term it doesn't quite it doesn't quite match the I test it doesn't quite give me what what I want it to give me But we definitely had a high expected threat in the opening 20 minutes and we did end with more expected threat to the Neverton, but it's not a metric I like to rely on on very much for me. It's I don't know if I can quite verbalize my concerns I don't think it quite sets out what it intends to do because Because I think you need tracking data to to really to understand where the space is because otherwise like one Possession in a box is not equal to another possession in the box I think I think in this kind of moment of time where we're desperate for something I don't I don't actually hate the idea of expected threat because it at least it can offer a some kind of positivity that we're Working the ball into situations where Savio is behind his fullback and in a situation to to cross the ball And it's just the cross has been over here or the shot has been blocked or something like that and about I am breaching I'm really reaching for that copy so so I have I have a theory about this I'm really happy to kind of get into the weeds of Nathan about I midfield play like our pivot is a problem The pivot in this game doesn't work for me. I don't I don't think it's ever gonna work I don't think Benton core into Nali in a game against a team that are gonna sit back in the fend I don't think that is a Workable pivot what I think it gives you is defensive solidarity and we've had a nil nil off the back of it I think we've had a really sound defensive performance for most of the game in fact I would say until Benton core went off and Bergval came on and I thought Bergval was a complete liability defensively Explicitly with the Johnson chance, you know Benton calls on the pitch for that chance He he doesn't let Johnson have that space to get that shot away, which I thought was a really really good chance and Brennan Johnson of old would have at least heard so the goalkeeper. Um, we could see sort of one big chance before Benton core went off So we were is that the one where Kinski passed it straight to their play? Yeah, it probably will be yeah, so we were Around point six until that point and then we end the game Conceited, I mean Everton were at point six expected goals and then we end the game with 1.1 expected goals considered right So that's proportionately significant. Yeah, yeah, um, we have to have finanders deeper We have we just have to and the sooner the better like next game, please Benton core is an excellent excellent screener Tanali is an excellent Recovery player recovery runner really also good at like one of our few players I've mentioned in gray doing this that actually gets ahead of the board as well makes runs ahead of the ball But neither of them can pass the ball effectively in my opinion and when I say effectively Obviously, they can both pass the ball. Obviously they can both pass the ball their Premier League footballers like they're they're they're very good Premier League footballers Neither of my plus passes neither of them see things early enough neither of them try things Often enough neither of them are adventurous with their passing Benton core Does there be loves Benton core because he is so conservative by nature and I think that is an italianism Coming through he gives him security you watch Benton core in the pitch and he's organizing people He's talking about distances. He's telling people where to pass and it's normally backwards He's pointing to pass backwards the majority of the time I think does Erby loves that and also like if Benton calls the only defensive minded player in a pivot I love that but as a combination we cannot we cannot do this consistently and expect to score goals And there's so many examples in this match of of where does a Benton core is conservative in possession and You know, Tanali I think tried a few cross fields and was a bit more ambitious But he's so far off his best at the moment and you have to pick one. I'm afraid does Erby you have to pick one You can't carry on playing both of them We don't get all out wide to Savio and Marmoush or tell whoever it is early enough with those two on the pitch. Have you guys watched Avatar - you watched that thankfully not. Have you watched Avatar 3? No, well, is it basically it's the same film But what in Avatar 2 is water. That's the problem And then Avatar 2 is fire so it's like it's exactly the same thing exactly the same thing happens But once we want it when one film is water in one film is fire right now We are Avatar Episodes episode 3 wherever you call it last season was like Jal palinia. He's the problem. He's passing Carp pass rubbish and now this season it's like bitter call car pass. He's rubbish It's like we keep blaming one individual, but all our problems and I don't think it's the lack of passing in the in the pivot There's there's such a lack of this is why Fernandez I understand why he wants to play Fernandez higher at the moment. He's nervous about him hitting the ground running you Because he's concerned because he's conservative The thing about does erby is everyone thinks oh really exciting attacking manager. I don't think that's true I don't think that's true. I think he is by nature quite pragmatic and Some of the football we will play on does erby will be exciting and we'll be thrilling But by nature, I think he's Pragmatist first and foremost and so he doesn't quite trust Fernandez yet once we see him deeper It will be game changing honestly, so you take out you take up bentica and you know tonight. I don't mind We whichever one. I don't mean I don't think he's gonna drop a hundred million pound player onto the bench But but maybe I don't know if that fixes Tottenham. I don't think I don't think it does fix Tottenham I don't think I don't think dropping beticle who is arguably our best player in a team that can't score goals The most important thing that we can do right now is not concede them and he's really good at that He's really really good at helping that because we can't score we can't afford to let anyone else score right now So I think if you take bentica out of this team we get beat we get beat more I really get that I really get it And I don't think I don't think you can we can't outscore anybody So we need to stop other teams scoring right now That has to be the priority until the forward line finds its fee until some people come back from injury I think the most important thing now is not to lose games And I've been I was criticizing us after we lost the bremford after we lost the new concept We need to stop score we needed to stop losing games and at least we've done that And I think until the forward line is fixed you have to keep bentica in the team Let's do some tape let's get into it. We're going to watch bentica now for today's in focus We have the tech to get food delivered in 15 minutes But we all have horror stories about buying tickets The game time app gives fans the advantage get amazing tickets in just a few taps Fees are included so what you see is what you pay And the game time guarantee means authentic tickets at the best price every time Take the guesswork out of buying tickets to concerts, sports, comedy and more with game time Download the game time app and create an account for $20 off your first purchase Terms apply We just finished watching with really good event because every involvement against Everton, would you let's talk about it? I mean, it may as well have been tonalies every involvement, right, because there was a lot of passing back and forth between them, because that's kind of what they do. And some of it is really useful play for kind of suffocating your position. His recoveries are like absolutely fantastic. He's so good at those kind of one touch, just tidying up bouncing balls, get it under control quickly lay it off, add so much value there, screening his kind of anticipation amazing. But and this isn't specific to Benton Core, it's about our deep midfield as a combination. The conservatism, the kind of pragmatism first approach suffocates our own attacking play because we're so slow to actually move the point of final third, when it finally does arrive there, I think it's in really poor condition. So what we want to do is play up back through as we want a centre back to play through the lines to the forward who then bounces off to one of the midfielders. And then for the midfielder to instantly play a pass either out wide to one of the wingers or into the channel for a winger to run onto. And I don't think Benton Core and Tonalie are capable of doing those passes to a high enough level consistently to ensure that our wingers arrive with the ball in the final third in good condition. And I think that's what we saw over and over and over again against Everton. And maybe with deserving coaching, it will improve dramatically, sure. And I worry that it won't, and I think the only solution is to move Fernandez into one of the pivot roles. Wendy, I completely agree with you. I feel exactly the same way about everything you've just said there, differences. I think, and we're talking about Benton Core and Tonalie, I think that there is a clear, clear gap in technical cleanness and moving the ball on quickly and being able to take it across his body and a half turn with it. And a lot of the time, Benton Core uses his ability to take the ball on the turn, to take the ball on the turn backwards, at least he can take it on the turn. So I completely agree. But for me, at least right now, and maybe this is fitness, and maybe this is acclimation I lean towards is not being the case. But for me, I think that the player I want to keep out of those to his Benton Core. And that's why I think we disagree. It's just on. I don't even think we necessarily disagree because I don't really care who it is. And I see the, I see, I think both of them have plus points and both of them have significant downsides. I think Tanali showed a capability in this game of switching to play really quite well. Like they're not complicated passes, but they're useful switches. And I think obviously his recovery play when we're counted is probably unparalleled. What Benton Core gives you is a consistent tactical understanding and just being in the right place to mop things up every time over and over and over. And I don't necessarily think Tanali does that as cleanly like you say. And so there's a discussion there, there's a consideration as to which one you pick. My worry is that Deserb is going to keep picking both while we're not scoring. He might go, well, it's like Buddy said earlier, while we're not scoring, he wants a security. So he chooses both. And you watch them. They're never far apart. Their distance is defensively. Their distances are so sound. But whilst that is a massive defensive benefit, it causes problems because there's no one to receive the ball inside the block. I think that's largely true. But I do also think we're seeing more often Tanali get further and further wide left to get on the ball. And I really don't like that. I really don't like that at all because whilst the point of Tanali, if he's not around centrally to do sprinting backwards, there's no one, there's no them to pick up, to pick out inside the block because we don't have a number 10 for Landis is not a number 10. We've seen that. He's very nice on the ball when everything else, but he had a poor game and he's not a 10. So you, you have to balance, it's, it's a real balancing act at the moment. The team's not right. And I think like you said, like I said earlier, Deserb has gone first for a solid setup at the moment. Um, until a number 10 recovers that this is what we've got to, this is what we've got to face with. I think the bigger question here is the problem, the, I'm not a child of some fan, but I think by isolating the only guy that can score a scrappy goal, we've, we've hurt ourselves long term. Last 20 minutes, Everton, a battering ram would have been really, really useful because we weren't going to like nicely, gently carve them open with combination play because they were just stacking orcs in the box. Absolutely, and, and whilst Salanky is a much better all round footballer than Rashadis and Rashadis and it has a hunger in the box that Salanky just does not have. He will make sure he's on the end of things. There were loads of balls pinged into the box, across like low crosses, cutbacks, and they looked terrible, but partly they looked terrible because Salanky's on his heels every time. He's not getting anywhere near them. Um, and I, I, I truly believe that Rashadis and would have been a very useful sub to bring on in this game. He'd have lost the ball a handful of times, embarrassing me a full-known over, but he also might have like accidentally thumbed one in off his ass, right? Because that's just what he does. And we can maybe talk about Richellerson more or maybe we wait for the saga to end, but let me put that in a broader context of our general approach to recruitment in that we, we brought Mudrik in on the last day of the window to have yet another guy who can run long distances with the ball to go with all of the guys who can run long distances with the ball, and we could have maybe brought in a number 10 type passer, someone who's a passer first, maybe someone who's a good shooter as well, maybe that's, you know, maybe we can have done that on the last day of the window, so that Fernandez could have played as a number eight, or we could have had just more variety in our profiles, but it just like we've just gone so far in one direction, I think it's me amping us. I would add, um, I think our bench is really limited in this respect as well and it's partly the injured. I mean, I think Madison probably should have come in the deeper position, but Bergval coming on is a bit of a nightmare because he doesn't really give you plus passing and he certainly leaves you open defensively as he did on the, on the Johnson chance, and I think it was very obvious once Benzenko went off and Bergval came on that he just simply doesn't have the same tactical discipline, um, and like you're going for a goal, you're going to risk it, but he's not really adding anything either, uh, I think Bergval in games where it's a bit help to scale to up and down like his, his tenacity, his chasing stuff down will be helpful, but against the set defense like this, I don't think he's adding much. I genuinely think Donnie would have been a much more useful player to have on the bench for this one, or Williams Barnett, you know, Donnie's not even at the club because we loaned him. Williams Barnett is maybe we need to start having him on the bench to help him pick the locks. I have a question then. So given the fact that Madison is nowhere in the fit, Kudos looks nowhere in the fit, how do we score a goal against Hashtabilla? What do we do differently to score a goal? Yeah, are we just hoping that something falls our way or is there a, is there a route out of this dullness? Well, um, I think with Villa, especially like their whole thing is just to like block out the middle and make the middle a nightmare. So maybe in that scenario, like having a tennis isn't even worth that much because you, you kind of have to go out wide against Villa to give you the mid block of death or over the top though. So Villa, specifically those are your only options, but I, I definitely to the general point, the lack of number 10, or it's not even the lack of number 10s, right? Because we have three of them. They're just all physically destroyed. Like Madison is able to sit on the bench and come on for a few minutes, but that isn't like a game plan, right? And we played, we played Kudos is the number 10. And again, to your point, like he's, he's also like Salanki still way off it needs to build match fitness will take him months or at least a month get close, but there was also a profile issue there where as at number 10, because my mush is playing inside left, maybe he wasn't at that point, but as a general point, the number 10 is in the right channel and Savinio was on the right. And so there was this 10 minute feel so period where you got Kudos and Savinio both trying to dribble the exact same way and the exact same space and they're just like getting on each other's toes and like stifling each other's carries. So yeah, I think there's a big profile issue in our squads and as much as I have been all and will continue to be critical of the club, it was a really, really difficult one to navigate because what do you do when you've got three number 10s and they're all injured? Like how do you approach that and the winners you go and buy another one and then when they're all fit, you've got four and what the hell do you do with that? Right? It's a horrible, horrible situation to navigate. I still think there must have been a better answer to the one that we've provided, which again, the punch line is loaning in Madrid, but also by the way is now injured because that's going to happen sometimes when you try to get a player up to high intensity when they haven't played football in two years, like that's not a great surprise that that's happened. It's just, this is coach led recruitment for you as far as I'm concerned. How do we score a goal? There are other ways to score goals, right? You can convert crosses. You can find cutbacks to midfielders. Tanani has a good ping from the edge of the box, but Nandas is a good ping from the edge of the box when he keeps dropping out into deeper midfield areas. We can score from set pieces. We can force an own goal. I think we're right for forcing an own goal. Any minute now, we're going to force an own goal, I promise. We had a chat before we started recording about Tottenham's inability to fall over in the box properly. Yes. And almost the lack of faith that would get a penalty has almost stopped Tottenham trying for penalties. I believe so. I believe so. I think that we had multiple opportunities where we, and none of them would have been like convincing, definite stone walls, as the only phrase that you don't like, isn't phrase stone, we're going to see what we could have had a few soft shouts just by tripping over ourselves a few times, but we don't, we don't do it. It would have asked a question. And what it would have done is it would have increased the pressure. So if you, there was one moment in the second half where the board is loose, the board is high. Tell, can see it. He's got his back to go. And instead of putting himself between the ball and the guy like Harry Kane would have seen that coming, turned to face, given his back to the defender and allowed the defender to come through the back of him, and he would have won a penalty. And I think tale missed out on it doesn't have the in game now. But what it does do is if you don't get the penalty there, it increases the pressure on the referee for the next kind of half-hearted appeal to make it even more convincing. We know VA is not going to stop. step in unless it's super clear and super obvious. So I think Spares not falling over a couple of times or invited challenges in the box. It is probably why we're not winning penalties because we're not increasing the pressure on the referees. You know, I watched the Manchester Derby yesterday and there was a moment where there's the, I don't know, are coming together in the man United Box between Harry and Ruguayet and it must have been Enzo. Who, by the way, it's always worth saying, "Absolutely fucking dickhead." But that's kind of aside the point. Actually, it's not aside the point because it's that merino thing of being, you know, be a, be a cunt for being an intelligent cunt. And Enzo was an intelligent cunt in this scenario and he, he provoked Maguire into shoving him down. And then once he'd been shoved down, he stayed there and he rolled around, or dramatically. Now, the outcome of this is that the referee both gave both players the yellow card. But the ball is in play when Maguire shoved Enzo. So that's a foul and it happened in the box. So by my understanding of the rules that should have been a penalty. Now, he didn't get one and in fact, he earned a yellow card for the crime of being shoved. But I just think if that's a spurs player, they just immediately get back up and go on with it. Again, in this scenario, it didn't, it didn't, it wasn't a good, especially a good outcome. But no, don't worry. I think it is a good outcome because what it does is now Harry Maguire, they're sending the backs on the yellow card. And they subbed Enzo off anyway a minute later. Yeah, they subbed him off. Harry Maguire's on the yellow card. He can no longer make a last ditch tackle unless he's confident he's going to make it away as off the pitch. And I think Tottenham have constantly been unable to raise the pressure on the referees, to raise the pressure on the pitch. And a friend of mine is always says, "Why aren't spurs always after the fourth official? Why aren't spurs always after the referee?" And I think we need to do that more, especially now where we can't score goals. You need to force the referee into making a mistake and the opposition to making a mistake because that's an easy way to score a goal. And I think we're not smart enough at that. And I would have thought someone like this Erby would be instilling this right into our plays and how to, how to invite contact in the box to win a penalty. Just what Gabrielle does. Gabrielle does it in his own box. Gabrielle invites contact onto him when he's defending to win a free kick because it's easier to win a free kick than occasionally the ball can't believe some of the fucking shit he gets away with, man. It is absurd. He's absolutely absurd the way that he goes down. But he invites it. He invites it. He creates pressure. He creates tension and he forces the referee into making decisions. We allow the referee off the hook every single time, especially at home. I agree. I agree. We just absolutely need to get so much better at that. And I think moving forwards, I didn't like the mummush experiment out wide. And as much as tell, I don't know against that, but go on. No, no, no, as much as he does tend to annoy me, I think we, we have to keep tell wide mummush for the middle and Savio white until Kudus and Madison and the rest of them get up to fitness. Just feels like, you know, this is like the learned helplessness of being a Tottenham fan over the two years, but it feels hard to imagine having all of the pieces we would want for our puzzle at the same time. You're like, when could this and Madison have come like, yeah, maybe that would happen, but who will we lose by the time that happened? You know, in the meantime, we'll just never gonna, it feels to me like we're just never gonna have the 11 we want to see on the pitch two games in a row. And it's been well over a year now since we had Madison. And I think if Madison isn't playing football consistently by December, I think we're gonna have to go out and just replace him and just, just agree that perhaps it's, it's over for him. You have been listening to the extra inch with me, Wendy, my sidekick and best friend by me. And I'll talk to you guys later. If you like this, there's plenty more at Patreon.com and forward to the extra inch. Production is by Nathanay Clarke. Our logo, artwork and website are designed by Creighton Miller. Our music is by David Lindmer. You can find on Instagram @DavidLindmer. Do check out his great streams. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook @theextrinch. email us @podcast and at theextrinch.com.uk. Subscribe, leave us a rating and a review. And most importantly, be sure to tell all of your spurs friends. Shout out to the XR team. We love every single last one of you. And of course, come on, you spurs.