Why can’t I remember being a baby?

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Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This, Wherever You Get Your Podcast, and on YouTube. For a long time, I thought they were dreams. So I wonder if it is actually a memory or it is something my brain made up. What is it that he is actually going to start remembering it when? What's your earliest memory? I have this super specific memory of looking at this wall that divided my parents living room and their kitchen, and I had a crayon in my hand, and my mom stepped away for just like a couple of seconds, and you know that urge just overcame me, and I started drawing circles on wall. And my mom must have heard me doing something after she stepped away because she ran back into the room and she goes, "Oh my God, step, step, step, step, step." My earliest memory is being in a backpack carrier. I think I'm my mom back, or honestly, maybe my dad's, I don't remember that part, but I grew up in the very outdoorsy family, as I remember, honestly just bouncing around up high and we're like in nature. My mom was trying to get us to eat clementines, and I did not want that clementine, and I just kept peeling it and handing the pieces to my sister, my older sister, and just giggling my head off, thinking that I was getting one over my mom by handing these clementine pieces to my sister. My mom putting my cat sunshine into my arms and him crawling up on my shoulders. Walking on a blanket in the yard, and under the blanket there was a bee's nest, I stepped on a bee's finger. I have this one weird memory that I don't know if it was the dream that I had, but it was like a surrounded by a world, this gray or dark black and purpley almost, you think about like really dark lasagna. I don't know how to describe it, but I was like, yeah, it was so weird, yeah, it was like floating in part of this world or something. I had this memory of being terrified when I was little because two of my siblings had tried to swim across this lake, it wasn't a really huge lake, and I have this memory of my mother standing on the beach, you know, the wind whipping her hair and her jacket, calling into the wind with my siblings out in the lake and the damn, you know, looming in the distance. But none of these memories were true. A few years back, Kristen Olsen had a kind of unsettling experience. She'd taken a trip with her family back to the cabin where they used to spend their summers when she was little. And as I got out of the car and started walking around the cabin, I realized you couldn't see the damn from the house, it was nowhere near the house. And so there were all these things that were just false memories. I realized later, you know, that whole image that I had of my mother standing on the beach calling that looked an awful lot like my memory of anti-M and the Wizard of Oz, with anti-M calling into the tornado, trying to get Dorothy to come back. Kristen got so interested in memory that she ended up writing an article for Eon magazine. I learned that it's super slippery, you know, it's kind of quirky and weird, what manages to lodge in somebody's mind. What do you feel about all of this stuff that you don't remember or either remember incorrectly? Like, is the memory necessary for the time to be important? You know, one of the scientists that I talked to, I asked her that, I said, well, you know, if something happens in our past and it's like a tree falling in the forest that nobody's around to see, does it really matter? Does it really matter if it happened if we can't really remember it? She said, you might not have the specific memory of what happened, but you have sort of a general feeling about being happy and being loved and so I kind of feel like, you know, even if I can't remember specific moments that I had with my family when it was younger and my siblings were still living at home and we were all doing things together that I still carry that impression of their love and their fun, the fun that they brought into my life and the fun that I guess I brought into their life, I still carry that impression very strongly. So after all of this, what is the thing you still want to find out? Like, what's the mystery of memory you want to know the answer to? Oh, I guess I'm just fascinated by what remains even though we can't remember a narrative or an incident, we have an impression that remains of those early things that happened to us. Why don't we remember things from our deep past and even if we don't, what kind of impression have they made on us? That tapestry of our early life, you know, it's sort of fascinating to know how much of it persists even if we can't get at it. I know I'm Hasenfeld sitting in for JQ today and I'm not really sure about my earliest memory. Maybe something with a stroller near a lawn, I think Mittens might have been involved somehow, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether it's real. And recently I've been thinking about this question a lot for a totally different reason. My wife and I just had our first kid, he's a little over 7 months old, and when I'm sitting with him or making up games, I wonder, is he going to remember any of this and does it matter? This week unexplained it to me from Vox. Why can't I remember being a baby? And what does that mean for how I should be a father? Support for Explained It To Me comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Here's something that might surprise you. Every 6 seconds, a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over $1,000 dollars. What's according to a study from a pet insurance company? Be prepared with Fetch Pet Insurance. Fetch is the most complete coverage for dogs and cats, according to consumeradvocate.org. Fetch covers accidents, illnesses, diagnostics, and more. Every vet in the US and Canada is in network. You can build a plan that fits your budget, and once approved, claims are paid back in as little as two days. To learn more, go to Fetch Pet.com/save. Support for the show comes from What Not. What's a thing you're passionate about that lights you up when someone asks you about it at a party? Whatever it is, What Not is the live shopping platform that can help you turn that passion into a business. Whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, even cookies, sellers are building real, driving businesses. Anyone can sell, whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist. People selling on What Not sell 10 times more than on any other marketplace. 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Search What Not, W-H-A-T-N-O-T, in the App Store, download, and you can start selling going red away my kid is nine and a half months old and I'm like you're not going to remember any of this also like fascinating how we have to study babies even though we all literally went through these stages and there's just so much that's not fully known it's explained to me I know I'm Hassan Faube and we've been talking about our earliest memories. I first got into psychology because of an interest of who we are as people and how we came to be and that you know starts with our earliest moments in childhood. Tristan Yates is a cognitive psychologist at Columbia University. It's fascinating that you know the early life is so foundational to who we are and who we become and yet we can't recall specifically what happened in our earliest days. Tristan says scientists are still figuring out exactly why we don't remember our first few years of life. There's been a few you know different theories so the one idea that we wanted to tackle in our research is that the brain system that's really important for specific memories is just not yet ready to form those specific memories in infancy. So this is a brain region called the hippocampus and it takes a really long time to develop so if you look at the structure of this brain region it continues to develop well into adolescence so the thought was it's just not yet able to store the specific memories that we would have in adulthood and instead we're having more kind of general memories in early infancy. Okay so yeah you did this study recently on this hypothesis. What'd you do? What'd you find? So we in the lab of Nick Turk Brown at Yale did an awake infant FMRI study so that's using the MRI machine that you would normally do at a doctor's office but kind of tweaking the parameters so we can look at brain function. People aren't doing this type of research because it's so hard to get a baby inside an MRI machine to sit still long enough for us to get those images. I mean I just flew with my seven month old to Chicago and that was extremely difficult like how do you get a baby to sit still in an MRI? So we use the same MRI machine that you would use at a doctor's office. We just make it really child friendly. So we have toys in the room. We use what's called a vacuum pillow to form like a baby taco around the baby so they kind of move a little bit less. Yeah and then one big innovation is we show pictures or movies to the babies right in front of them right on top of a panoramic scene inside the MRI so it's like baby iMacs. Baby iMacs! Yeah exactly. That actually sounds much better than the MRIs that I have gotten done in my life. Yeah okay so you got the babies in the baby iMacs in the baby taco and then what are you looking at? So for the the particular study that we published last year on memory we showed babies different images and so the idea is that we wanted to know if they would look differently when they saw an image a second time. So we showed them an image, another image, another image, another image and another image and then that first image we showed let's say that was a waterfall. We're going to show it alongside a new image and so now they they have something that they've seen before alongside something they've never seen before. So if they have a memory for having seen the waterfall then we think that they're going to look differently between these two images. Like staring longer or something like that? Exactly so based on prior work we think that they should stare longer at the thing that they've seen before. Got it. And so that would tell us that they remember you know having seen it the first time and so then we can ask what was the brain doing the first time they saw that waterfall? Was the brain doing something that enabled them to later look differently? Is the brain forming that memory that later changes their looking behavior? And so that's where we found that the hippocampus was active during the initial viewing of the waterfall that they would later indicate to us that they remembered. You basically found that they did remember because they stared longer at the images they'd already seen and you're getting this additional layer of evidence showing that the hippocampus, the part of the brain that you know researchers for a while thought maybe was not developed enough to function in early childhood. You're saying it is functioning. So does that mean the babies are forming memories? We are showing that they're able to form some memories. The hippocampus is capable of forming specific memories over a few minutes but now we need to start doing the research that can get us at longer durations that can get at more complex memories. So what do we think happens to those memories? If we think they're being formed, do they just get wiped? What's going on? We're born with most of our neurons that will have for the rest of our life and a lot of development is pruning away connections between neurons and what is interesting is the hippocampus is one brain region where neurogenesis or the formation of new neurons happens continuously and it happens a lot in early infancy. It's as if you're in a forest and it becomes overgrown and so you can't reach where you were before. You can't find your way through it. Exactly. So it's like because babies are learning so much about the world like object permanence or how to walk or how to speak, they might just not be able to actually remember things because too much is happening. Yeah, I think that's like a key way that I'm thinking about this is that what is the point of infancy? To me, you're learning a lot of the general things. You're learning who your parents are, you're learning how to walk, you're learning language, things that co-occur or happen more frequently. A few years ago, our group published work looking at the hippocampus for a different type of memory, something we call statistical learning. That just means that like you remember kind of a sequence of events that happen. So an example in a baby's life might be a bedtime routine that reoccurring pattern is something that we think babies are really good at. In our previous study, we found that babies as young as three months use the hippocampus for this kind of statistical learning, this learning of these patterns. It gets back to this question of like what is the point of infancy? You know, it might be the case that the hippocampus prioritizes learning regularities in the environment, learning patterns. And then after a while, once it's got that foundation, then it can start working towards learning more specific things. The idea of your question, what's the point of infancy? It's so interesting to me because it's as if we have to almost learn how to remember, if that makes sense. It's like we have to learn all these basic skills of how to perceive and get around the world. We have to understand like, I don't know, looking at my kid and seeing him learn that his hands are his hands, you know, like you have to learn those basic, basic things before maybe you can carve a path through the forest to use your metaphor. Yeah. And I mean, this is what some of our theories are pointing towards, is that, you know, we're building the memory system in early life. In the science of development, we talk about sensitive periods. So you might be aware of the fact that babies and children learn language better than adults. We call childhood a sensitive period for language. And so there are these theories that maybe early life is a sensitive period for learning in general that, you know, we're building up the system and that it's really responsive to how the environment allows you to kind of form this memory system. You know, one thing that this brings up for me, especially as the parent of a young child, is, you know, the fact that he probably is not going to have specific memories that last the rest of his life for a couple of years, you know, he'll have some veger feelings, I guess, that are not specific memories like you're calling them. But what does that mean for this period? What does it mean for how much what I do for him matters? As a new parent of an also very young child, these are the thoughts that I think about as well. And it's actually what I'm studying in my postdoctoral work here at Columbia is what are parents doing in early life? And how is that shaping their kids' memory and development? I mean, we know on the one hand, there's infantile amnesia. On the other hand, early experiences matter. If you grow up in, you know, circumstances that are unideal, that can have lasting impacts. And I think it comes down to, you know, this kind of specific versus general thing. Like if you are providing daily enrichment and love for your child, they're learning, you know, I am safe. I am loved. These are the things that matter, and so, I think that's comforting. Okay, but really, what should I do? I can love my kid, that's good, but what else should I be focusing on if he's just gonna forget everything? I called up someone who studies childhood development to find out, and we'll get to that in a minute. Support for the show comes from Rippling. Imagine you just found your sales team is at risk of missing a quota, no need to panic. Jess, ask Rippling. AI. 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I'm actually calling with the perspective of an auntie, I just had a conversation with my nephew who's 11 about a core memory of mine of a conversation we had when he was maybe 6 or 7 and he very gallantly said he had zero memory of this and it just struck me that of course something to him was nearly half his life ago and kind of I don't remember things from half my life time ago and how I think that memory can live on through family anecdotes that we told. We're back with explain it to me. My name is Dana Suskind, I'm a professor of surgery and pediatrics at the University of Chicago and I study early childhood development and the important role that parents and caregivers play. You started out I believe as a cochlear implant surgeon and now you're working on childhood development. How did that happen? What's the connection there? Yeah. Well, it actually makes a whole lot of sense so long ago when I first started our pediatric cochlear implant program at the University of Chicago I started implanting cute little kids who all look like they had the same potential to thrive after implant surgery and found very quickly that I could implant two children who look very much the same who are parents who love them equally with the same technology but would have very different outcomes with one of them really thriving after surgery in terms of language learning and trajectories and other same kind out would barely be able to communicate and it was sort of that experience in seeing these huge differences and outcomes after the same surgery that led me into this incredible world of childhood development and the importance of the early years and the importance of parents. Humans come out with brains that are literally only one third the size of adult brains. It's very different than any other species and that's why we're basically completely helpless and so the puppy can start feeding itself pretty quickly and start walking whereas the human infant is helpless because our brains in those first three years of life 85% of the physical brain is built during those periods of time and a million new neural connections happen every second and basically the environmental input, the input from parents and caregivers every serve and return every touch every you know gaze literally is helping shape and strengthen the neural connections that happen in our brain. The brain isn't being just built for your child vocabulary development or their literacy ability it's building their social brain their ability to relate to and connect to the rest of the world the relationships and the expectations for relationships are built in those early years. Tell me if this is maybe an oversimplification but you know I'm a parent of a young son he's a little over seven months old and I feel like maybe what I'm doing when I'm raising him is I'm building the structure of his brain or I'm building like the architecture and all the other stuff all the specific things are going to fill in all the rooms of the big building that we're constructing together but he's not going to start filling those in with specific ideas or specific memories until later on in his development. The analogy you make is exactly right I think of building the physical brain sort of like if you were thinking about through a computer lens I think about it is building the hardware the the firmware the memory the RAM. You know I think of K-12 is really important but I think of those as software updates. But these early years are building that infrastructure at the end of the day it's your attachment with him being the perfectly imperfect parent and I want you not to strive for perfection because the one thing that AI has shown us is that humans don't grow from perfection and frictionless existence and so feel okay every time you misstep misunderstand and repair because that is for him building the understanding of I can be loved by another human who missteps but is able to repair he is starting to understand how to expect to be treated and that's why you know it's almost like you're building the relationship map for him that's going to allow him in the future to have expectations of how he's going to be treated and loved it by an imperfect human you know building that strong bond showering him with rich language you know that back and forth looking at him as a conversational partner from day one. Yeah it's interesting you brought up AI and friction. What do you think this idea of a more frictionless existence is going to start meaning for kids? Yeah I mean it's a lot I mean I had a book that just came out actually on this it's called human rays and really that's a lot of the argument of the book that you know children learn from imperfect parenting through friction through the productive struggle and we're seeing that friction that we've always looked as like sort of a bug in the system like oh my gosh I wish this was a more frictionless existence with the other humans in our world. What we're finding is that it is key for relationships development learning to have relationships and actually even learning I mean that's why writing an essay with an LLM you don't remember at the end of the day because there's something about what happens in the brain that we've sort of discounted on the friction side of things so I actually think in some ways friction should be the word of the year and we need to embrace it a little bit more I mean we don't need to friction max but we do need to see the power of the friction so so it sounds like you know even if my son is gonna forget all of this I mean maybe on a deep level it'll stick with him but I don't know I should I should I still have a nice big you know one-year-old birthday party? Heck yes. Heck yes because you're doing it partially for you grandparents let's be clear and there's a wonderful moments that they do remember at some level my son who's now 20-something in medical school he he was obsessed with Thomas the Chuchu Train. Senders on the ashes. I still have the box of the Thomas the Chuchu Train so yes he may not remember exactly that birthday party in the cake that I worked very hard on but it's even fun to talk about it now in his twenties and his girlfriend laughing so yes do enjoy every moment don't get obsessed like it's got everything has to be perfect but you know it's those are memories for everyone. That's it for this week but if there's anything you want to hear us cover on the show show. Tell us about it. Call us at 1-800-618-8545 or email [email protected]. This episode was produced by Danielle Hewitt. It was edited by Avi Shai Artsy, fact-checking from Melissa Hirsch, engineering from Patrick Boyd. Our executive producer is Miranda Kennedy. I'm your host. No, I'm hasn't felt, sitting in this week. I normally host unexplainable, which is Vox's podcast about unanswered scientific questions. It's a great time. If you're interested, you can check us out wherever you listen or, as of very recently, you can find us on Netflix. And if you want to support our work, consider becoming a Vox member. You get to listen to the show ad-free and you get a whole bunch of other perks. You can find out more by heading over to Vox.com/members. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you here next time. Bye. Don't do that. Don't use that.