Why are farmers protesting against an India-US trade deal?

This is Infocus. The Hindus, current affairs, podcast. This deal is sacrificing the interests of India's farmers at the altar of American interests. This is going to affect not only agricultural products, industrial products also, especially the peasantry is going to be very badly hit. Agriculture being a state subject, it's going to get really diluted if this deal goes through. Now it influences on the rights of the state governments. Land only peasantry is being forcefully acquired by the government and the corporate nexus. Hello and welcome to Infocus, I'm G. Sampath. Last month thousands of farmers across the country burnt symbolic copies of the India-U.S. trade deal. They were protesting against the interim framework for a trade deal that India had signed with the U.S. While the union government has emphasized that they have kept sensitive agricultural products out of the deal, farmers, outfits and opposition parties have said that the government has surrendered the interests of Indian farmers. It is being said that cheap, highly subsidized American produce will flood Indian markets, depressing domestic prices and hitting rural incomes. But the government claims that the deal will have safeguards built in and so Indian farmers have nothing to worry. But farmers organizations are planning to intensify their protests in the coming weeks. Why are they not convinced by the government's assurances? What are their concerns and what are their demands? We are joined today by Dr. Ashok Dhavale, a member of the National Coordination Committee of the Samyukth Kishan, Murca and National President of the All India Kishan Sabha. Dr. Dhavale, welcome to Infocus. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure. To start with, can you just tell us why are farmers organizations opposing the Indo-US trade pack which is still being finalized? I see the main reason why the farmers organizations are up in arms against this Indo-US interim deal. Basically we believe that this deal is sacrificing the interests of India's farmers at the altar of American interests very clearly. Just to give you just two or three examples because this is generally known but even then it requires to be very much underlined. Up to now what used to happen is that the exports from India, I am talking about both agricultural and industrial. Generally they used to have a tariff of about average 2.5 percent which was imposed by the USA. Whereas due to various reasons, historical reasons of us trying to protect our markets which was as a result of a whole slew of historical factors. India used to levy tariffs which were to the tune of 35 to 150 percent on American goods. So this was the situation at that time. Naturally we did this to try and prevent our farmers, our workers etc from going under. Because the imperialist kind of thing is a totally different ballgame altogether. The entire production and everything and all that. The scale and everything. Now what has happened is instead of 2.5 percent that we were having to face tariffs there today, it was increased suddenly to 50 percent by Trump. And then as if he is doing us a very great favor as part of this deal, he brought it down to 18 percent and unfortunately the central government of the day, they are celebrating the reduction of tariffs from 50 percent to 18 percent. What is the other side of the story? The other side of the story is, which is something unimaginable and that is exactly why not only farmers, workers, organizations, everyone, I mean all patriotic organizations if you ask me, what is happening is the tariff that we used to levy on American thing which I said about 35 to 150. Now it has been brought down to 0 percent and not just tariffs, tariff and non-tariff barriers. So they have been together brought down to 0 percent. What do you mean by non-tariff barriers? Non-tariff means different kinds of other taxes, etc., which they used to pay apart from tariffs like that. So everything has gone and now it has come down to 0 percent. Now is celebrating that, I mean how does it fall into any kind of sense it is impossible to understand. That means now we are paying seven times more tariffs even if you take it as 18 percent to 0.5 to 18. That's one. Secondly, your tariff which used to get and as a result of it you could stop. American imports from coming and flooding your market. Today you can't do a damn thing. 0 percent means the entire flow from America is going to land up in India. It's going to be like dumping and as a result of this dumping farmers are going to get totally finished in August 2025. This preceded this interim US India deal. Cotton is a very important product. All of us know. More than about 14 states. Cotton is grown. It's a very major cash crop. And in that it's a very interesting thing which people generally are not aware but they should be aware. The largest number of farmers use sites in India after neoliberalism began in 1991 have been those of cotton farmers. They are the ones under the greatest stress under the greatest crisis. Now regarding cotton farmers in August 2025 even before the interim inking of this deal they removed the entire import duty tariff of 11 percent on cotton. The Modi government brought it down to 0. This is specifically for American imports? For American imports basically. You know. So they already sort of they showed the true colors even before this interim trade deal. Now as a result already big huge kind of American cotton has started coming. 95 percent increase of American cotton imports after this 11 percent duty has been thrown out. But the government has claimed that only some certain kind of cotton which is not that much produce in India. Some long long staple long staple is the best. Long staple is known to be the best cotton. You understand that. That's not produced in a big way by Indian farmers. Therefore it has to be affected. Yeah. Whatever it is it affects the whole market because after a little from cotton you make cloth. So all these you know big companies etc. If you don't get the short staple ok very good you are getting the long staple cheaper. So they will prefer that. You understand. So in which case both the cotton farmers long staple and short of medium staple they are all going to get clobbered because of this. You understand. So that's why already now cotton prices have dropped in India for cotton farmers. The prices have already dropped as a result of it. I'm telling you since I come from Maharashtra cotton farmers use sides in Bidarbha and Murat for our regions. Also in Andhra, Telangana. All these places, Karnataka. They have shown arise a direct correspondence to this in the last six months after August. Now what is happening is today I'll just quote to you you know what they have said. They are saying Mr. Narendra Modi says farmers won't be affected. Trade and Commerce Minister Mr. Pooj go and says farmers won't be affected. What is the first paragraph of the India USA Joint Declaration? It says that India will eliminate or reduce tariffs on all US industrial goods and a wide range of US food and agricultural products including many other things etc. I'm not reading on all that and additional products. So therefore this is no meaning. This is going to affect not only agricultural products. But agricultural products also and this is going to have disastrous effects on a large section of the Indian people especially the peasantry is going to be very badly hit. I want your response to what the government's stance has been Dr. Dabli. The government has said taking into account all that you have said about the trade agreement, the interior agreement in totality. If you look at the specifics the Commerce Minister has said that sensitive sectors within agriculture and diary for example have been kept out of the deal. Number one and number two growers of crops like tea, coffee, spices, fruits and rice exporters. Fisheries related exporters will enjoy zero tariffs in the US. So should we also not be at some point? acknowledging these specific gains for India and Indian farmers. See, number one is that still the final agreement has yet to be inked. Let us be very clear on that. Only when the final agreement is inked, then we'll come to know what exactly is true and what exactly is false. For example, on this, especially this thing, now for example, they said agriculture is out of it. In that same thing which I forgot to I mean, I did not specially quote. The remaining part of it is that a wide range of US food and agriculture is brought in including dried distillers grains, red sorghum for animal feed, tree nuts, fresh and processed fruit, soybean oil, wine and spirits, etc are also going to be tax. But the government would argue that these are not the particularly sensitive sectors with the agriculture, not rice, not wheat. That's exactly that is not ruled out. Point is that. Oh, you're saying even if they are not part of this agreement, no, they may be brought in later. Because they look very clearly and additional products. It says in black and white, you see, all these things are said and then they say and additional products. Now, which are these additional products? That will come to know only when the final thing is there. Now, soybean, soybean oil they already put. That means soybean, soybean is a very, very important crop in large parts of India. Cotton and soybean actually go together in many parts, you know that. So therefore, soybean is there and you know who the thing is, there is no clear statement. That cereals, dairy, they're saying just for the record. But we are not sure that these are going to be actually left out until you see the final fine trend. And that is exactly why the farmers are very afraid. You understand and are extremely worried because these cereals, dairy, etc. Now, dairy, you know, 8-8 crore. That means 80 million farmers of dairy are there all over the country. Already from Australia, New Zealand, etc. They have liberalized imports of all the dairy products from America, from European Union, etc., etc. So already dairy products are entering the Indian market, you can see it. And that is already creating a big problem for the milk producers all over India. Now, if it happens in black and white as part of the deal, how is it creating a problem for milk producers because they are selling milk. These are the dairy products. These are all milk products, in India what is happening is there is tremendous in some areas. Tremendous excess milk is there. Now, what happens to that milk? That is converted into dairy products like cheese, for example. Like many other dairy products are there. Now, once you have dairy products coming in, but cheese, etc. What happens to this excess milk in India? It is totally wasted. Once that is wasted, then the companies stop buying extra milk from the farmers. So they are finished because consumption, how much can you do of milk, isn't it? So that is how the dairy thing is already being affected, even without so-called inclusion in the trade deal. We will come back to, I mean, dairy is not yet affected. So we can't really, we won't spend too much time on that. Let us talk about what is actually, we know it's going to be affected. For example, soy bean oil and the entire oil seed economy. So Mr. Goel, the commerce minister has said that market access has been granted only for those products for which India is already dependent on imports to some extent. So he includes, he would include the distillers dried grains with soluble DDS. We don't have our domestic production to fulfill the complete amount of demand which is that. So DDS, Red Sorgam also is part of the feed economy and I guess the soybean also to some extent. So can you explain how does this introducing imported elements into the feed economy is going to impact Indian farmers? See how it happens now, in all these cases, what is called as a cascading effect, you know, these things have on the economy as a whole. Now, for example, animal feed, you include that. There are other animal feeds also which are produced in India. When you import them in a liberal manner, those things that are actually produced in India are not required. But the ones which are produced in India are not able to meet the demand. There is a shortfall. So the imports will sort of cater to the shortfall and then those were catering to the existing demand will continue to do so. That is the government's argument. So what is the issue there? Yeah, but you see this not in all cases, in many cases for example, this is not the case that you are not self-sufficient, etc. Wherever you are self-sufficient also know cotton for example, classic example what we were just talking about. Cotton, we can do this thing. We can have the ability for self-sufficient seeds. Even the edible oil, our basic point is, Zanzaba, what is that basic point? Yes, you are right. We are spending a lot today in importing oil seeds or oil, etc. But what we have been saying for the last several years, had you actually completely change your policies regarding oil seed production? India today could have become independent and self-sufficient in oil seed production. Instead of doing that, instead of using your resources to seed to it, oil seed farmers for example, they are given a proper price. When will it become self-sufficient? Unless you give a proper price. You mean a MSP for oil seeds? MSP for oil seeds, very important, different kinds of subsidies for whatever they do, etc. You know for their imports and all that. If you do that, now today you see why wheat and rice? Why is Punjab, etc., Haryana, Western UP and some other areas? Why are they doing that? They are doing that precisely because they are getting some kind of returns. Although we are not saying that these are the returns which were actually said by the Swaminathan Commission, C2 plus 50 percent formula. Even now the Punjab or the Haryana farmers or the Western UP farmers are not getting that much. You understand? But the point is they are getting at least better than otherwise same thing at oil seed farmers also you had made that policy. That whole field would have increased. Your import dependency would have reduced even on oil seeds and today they would have been no needed. So, very fundamental changes are required in these things so that you become much more self-sufficient in all the very important things that you require to be in agriculture. That is our main point. Will this import of these DDG as will it have a differential impact on smaller livestock farmers compared to the ones like how does that? Sure, you know in all things we have seen, whatever the impacts of this may be imports, various other policies of the government. We saw it very clearly in the time of this farm laws agitation. What happens is every step taken by the government has much worse consequences on the smaller farmers than on the bigger farmers. Why? Because the bigger farmers have a kind of a buffer cushion or various thing because number one they are dependent on agriculture yes but they are not totally dependent on agriculture. The richer sections if you see we can see it in Tamil Nadu, we see it in Maharashtra, we see it in Karnataka, Angara anywhere, even here in North India. You see the richer sections is very absolutely classic case. They are also having many other interests, economic, petrol pumps, educational institutions. You understand various bodies which they control like Maharashtra for example the sugar mills, so-called cooperative but actually controlled by a few. So these kind of thing they are there that is why the richer farmers don't get affected by these policy changes as much as the poorer and the modest farmers and that is exactly the point which is happening everywhere. That is the point. Let's turn to one other category of products which are going to be entering India at zero tariffs which is fresh and processed fruits from the United States. How do you think this is going to affect? Is it going to have more of an impact on specific states such as Jammu and Kashmir by which produces apples? You see three apple producing states they are going to be the worst effect by this step. In our S.K.A. meeting in Kurukshetra, Sanyota Kisan Murtra, we just had last month. Apple farmers from Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, all of them had come and they attended the meeting and they give actual examples they are saying with this just the step that has been announced that fresh fruit and the other is the apple prices have collapsed. And these three states are basically dependent on their economy. They were actually, I mean, you know, they were giving examples of how the thing has fallen, what are the rates of Apple, etc. Similarly, other horticultural states, you know, wherever fruit is involved, they are actually at the first receiving end of this thing. And that's a big sector now. You know, the whole horticultural sector is a very big sector today in India. So they are going to be very, very badly affected along with others also. I was going through the various releases from the farmers, organizations, including SKM. And one of the themes which come again and again in your various, in your letters to the chief minister, etc. Is that with these kinds of moves, this free trade agreements made to the EU or the US, okay. One of the things that the sentencing government is ending up doing is to infringe on the rights of the state governments to manage agriculture, agriculture being a state subject. It's going to get really diluted if these deals goes through. So can you explain how it infringes on the rights of the state governments to manage agriculture? Exactly. You see, very good question you raised because this has been a continuous sort of, you know, direction of the central government over the last 11, 12 years. Agriculture as you said rightly is a state subject, which means that any important decision regarding agriculture has to be taken only in consultation with the state governments. Now we see for the last 11 years, this is not the first time, although this is one of the worst, having concluding, you know, trade deals without having any kind of a discussion or consultation with the state governments. Even regarding the three farm laws, this is mentioning, three farm laws were dealing with agriculture. No state was involved. No state was consulted. Now also they are not. Now what happens is you are giving agriculture under the state government. But you are not giving the state government any autonomy to decide on the policies regarding agriculture. The center is absolutely riding roughshod over the entire agricultural sector by taking everything in the centralized form. So naturally when you take decisions, which are for the benefit of the sections that you are wanting to enrich and which are those sections, let us talk clearly about the table. The central government today is wanting number one to enrich the big corporate cronies that they have. And secondly, it is a very unfortunate thing. Historically, the RSS has never fought against imperialism. Never fought. From 1925 to 1947. 25 I am talking about that of the year that was formed. 22 years, the RSS has not a single freedom fighter to its credit. All else had it. They surrendered to British imperialism. Today, the RSS and its prime minister is surrendering to American imperialism, European imperialism on everybody else. One very important point I would like to underline. You see, after this India-US trade deal, few days after that, there is something which is another amazing. Supreme Court of the United States of America, it gives a ruling saying that Donald Trump as president has no power or no authority to impose even one percent tariff on any country in the world. Supreme Court of the USA gives that ruling. Now as soon as that ruling came, which was a very important ruling in America, the European Union with whom the United States are also signed this agreement, a trade agreement with UN, USA. European Union, the next day, announced that in view of this Supreme Court judgment, we are wanting the United States to review and we want to review the agreement that has been interimly put out. Not a single statement from India has said that yes, in view of the Supreme Court judgment, where Trump has no right to put any tariff on anybody. What would any self-respecting country have done? What would any patriotic prime minister have done? Making that into account, you would have said that we are demanding rescinding of this deal. We draw all of this deal, we don't agree with it. Not a single statement came, see this is the servility of the RSS or the BJP or the prime minister, which has come now so clearly. But sir, you know, you spoke about the RSS BJP, but even before the current dispensation came to power, even earlier, I think the record of the previous government vis-à-vis agriculture wasn't particularly great. They were also trying to push cooperatively of agriculture. They were also trying to do deregulation. So it's just a part of the same continuum, isn't it? It's not like particularly only the RSS. You see, the thing is, what you have to say to some extent, you are right. Actually this all began in 1991. When the neoliberal policy started, what we call LPG, liberalization, privatization, globalization. At that time you're perfectly right, it was the Congress government, we started it. No doubt. Point is that direction was being taken, no doubt. We were opposing then also. From the Kisan organizations, we were opposing it even then. Because exactly when that started in 1991, you will see from 1993-94, the figures of the NCRB, National Crime Record Bureau. You just check, pre-1991 and post-1991. Farmers' suicides begin from 1993-94 onwards. Distress, you say. So you're opposing that also. But the point is, from 2014, there has been a qualitative, quantitative, yes. But also a qualitative change in this thing. It has been jacked up tremendously much more, more than quality and quantity than the earlier period. What has been jacked up? This whole pace of policies. Now, you know, about 55 to 60% of India's population is dependent on agriculture and allied activities for their livelihood. All these moves, as you've said, we spoke about cotton, we spoke about horticulture, apples, we spoke about animal feed and so on. So all these moves to remove tariffs on imports and with the likelihood of imported agricultural produce flooding in Indian market, they could actually harm two of India's primary concerns. One is food security and other is livelihood security. So why is the union government timing again coming up with these moves that could actually harm livelihood security and food security given that these are the primary goals of or should be the goals of agricultural policy. Why is this happening? You're absolutely right. Why is it happening? It's happening precisely because this government is working for a totally different constituency. Farmers is not part of their thing. You can talk earlier about working for chronic capitalists, but when the president will be American farmers and American business. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, no, no, but you see the crony capital is here. I said about American also when I said that RSS is always counter to imperialism then and now it is doing to American imperialism now. I meant that only multinational capital and they see capital, what you say, domestic capital. And today we must understand both these capitalists are interlinked also in a very crucial way. You understand both the multinational capital and here can the big corporates here do without the multinational capital. There was a time earlier, Independence Day, etc. You know, when there was a contradiction, certainly there was a contradiction. That is why all these big capitalists supported the movement freedom movement also. You understand, but today the situation has gone to gone, a sea change. And certainly against US imperialism, any self-respecting country would have fought against this. This kind of a thing that you are now, you know, ordering. Now just see the latest. Now one that point did not come in this straight deed. Why that 50% tariff, 25% of it was reciprocal. Remaining 25% was why? Because you are buying Russian oil. That was the point. And now after stopping Russian oil, they stopped. Right. I just have one or two questions before we wrap up. So it took the farmers about one and a half years, one year, four months of struggle and protest to get the three farm laws which are being made. which were brought in to get them repealed, right? So what kind of struggle do you anticipate? What are the plans by your union and the others to ensure that the Indian farmers' interests are protected or at least taken into account as this deal proceeds? Correct. So now you see, as I told you, the saivukh the kisan moorcha had its very important meeting in Kurukshetra. So there we had a very good attendance from all over the country. There we decided, ninth march, the first day of the Indian parliament. We had a very good Kisan Mazdur sansat, Kisan Mazdur parliament at Jantarwanta today morning, very good attendance and not only the saivukh the kisan moorcha, but all the central trade unions. You mean unions of workers also? Exactly. They work in class. The main ten unions which are there, which they formed these central trade unions, that's the whole body. Was the BJP's union also part of it? No, no, no, they are out of it. They themselves opted out. I mean, many years ago, immediately after this government came to power. So both these huge platforms, saivukh the kisan moorcha, farmers platform and these central trade unions, the workers platform, all of them came together. And they were there together on one stage and there we decided on a future program. Now that program is number one. See, it's going to be a long term thing. We are under no illusion that this is going to get over soon because the kind of new attacks that are coming, India, US trade deal is one thing. But before the trade deal, there has been a whole series of attacks in the last two or three months. What are those attacks? Just enumerate so that we understand. Number one, the actual implementation of the four labor courts, which they are going to start being from first to April. They don't affect the farmers. No, no, no, I'm talking about the whole general. Farmers and workers are not different. That's our basic point. That it's all part of the working people. So that is going to affect. So far as the agricultural workers, which are a part of the peasantry, they have cancelled the Manarega, Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment, Guarantee Act. And now they have brought in a new act with their powers. That is the gramjee. They are saying we are going to give 125 days, it's just 100 as earlier. But what have they done? 90% central government used to spend on this Manarega earlier. Now they have made it 90 to 60%. And now they are giving the states, which used to give 10%. Now they have put 40% on the heads of the states. It is notorious in India that states are bankrupt. State governments are bankrupt. Central government is looting them, fleecing them in every way. And now they are putting the whole on us on the states to fund this rural workers. How is it going to happen? Already the figures for Manarega was about 45 days of work used to be given. 100 days was not given ever. 45 days. With this, it is going to be less than 20 days per year. You understand? So that's part of the peasantry. Third, the electricity act. Now they are going to, it seems, bring it in this parliament session. Electricity amendment bill. Now that has been totally privatization of electricity. Across the, across the, you think, both urban and rural everywhere. They have started putting smart meters in various states. As a result of it, the tariffs have risen through the roof. You understand? So therefore farmers are going to be affected by that also. Seed bill, that is their under-concentration. They might pass it in this parliament. Again, privatization of the entire seed sector. You know, all this and plus, for farmers very specifically, I had told you earlier, MSP is not being thought of at all. That was demand number two in that 15-month agitation. Apart from the repeal of the three laws, what is the number two demand? Number two demand was MSP at the rate of one and a half times the total cost of production. Not a word about it. Third demand at that time was a loan waiver. Complete loan waiver. Two governments are moneyed earlier. We've been seeing government, central government did it. Man-mancing government did it. You understand? But this government just does not talk about that at all. Then the whole question of crop insurance, as a result of it, all this natural climate change, etc., etc., floods, drought, everything. Farmers are absolutely, you cannot imagine the state in which farmers are today. You know, so none of this, pension for farmers, agricultural workers, and increasing, these are a basic demand. Land, very important new thing that is happening all across India today. Land, all the presentry, is being forcibly acquired by the government and the corporate nexus. Any number of examples I can view. I'm not quite for their own agricultural work or for non-agricultural. For non-agricultural, non-agriculture. And not only non-agriculture, I could have even understood, if genuine industry, etc., so that at least employment can be there. What they do is take large swaths of land, don't do anything to it, and after a certain amount, then they bring it out as a real estate. So they make super profits. This is going on everywhere. You understand? So all this sort of thing, land grab, that is another very major thing that has been faced today. So that's why this whole gamut against this what we have decided is, we are going to create a lot of big public awareness, village meetings, you understand? And this is a meeting that's already started already on the 12th of February last month. There was an all-India general strike in which more than 30 crore working people, workers, peasants, agricultural workers, etc., not only took part in the strike, large sections came on the streets also, last 12 February. So now what we would be here is the next call we are given just now. 23rd of March, later this month, that is of course, as all of us know, it is the martyrdom anniversary of Bhagat Singh Rajguru and Subdev. Killed by British imperialism, all three not only freedom fighters but revolutionaries with a very clearly Marxist bent of mind. Let us say that very clearly. Bhagat Singh was a Marxist. He openly said, and that is precisely why British imperialism was very, very keen on stuffing out their lives. Now so 23rd March we have decided today in this Kisan Madhura Mahapanchal that we will make everywhere 23rd March as anti-imperialist day and also as livelihood, livelihood day for defensive livelihoods. 23rd March is going to be a big thing over there, all over the country it will be observed. Coming first April when they are going to actually implement the labor codes, that also we are going to observe in a big way in large protests everywhere. And this will now go on. It is not the end of the road. For us we know we have to fight every single inch of the way, but by that time I tell you one thing is going to happen. All the effects of all these wrong things, disastrous things are going to start being felt by the people. It takes time. And unless you know people really get hit by it, they don't rise. Is it a particular generation of the agricultural population which is involved in these struggles and protests? Or are you also getting the Gen Z so to speak? Yeah. The younger generation because they are trying to get out of agriculture, move out of farming and do other things. Are they at all involved in your protests? Yeah, yeah. These kinds of activities. Very much, very much. Because you see today they want to get out of agriculture. You are right to some extent. Because they don't see much future in it. You understand? Point is they don't have any other alternative. Where are the jobs? Isn't it suppose you leave out? Where are the other jobs also? They're also there is crisis stating them in the face. In which case therefore, now a large section of the Gen Z as you said, they now want to say that yes we will be in agriculture and we will fight. We saw this five years ago in the Delhi Farmers' struggle for one year. You know we were there all part of us all of us were there. And there we saw young generation coming up. Young farmers fighting also along with their elders. So that was a very good thing. Women, that's another very important section. Whole question of women. Women were also very much a part of that struggle. And they are a part of now. I'll tell you just today we had those three long marches in Maharashtra. So in January and February, you used things, Palgarh, 50,000 strong, Nasi, 50,000 strong, Ilianagar, more than 10,000 strong. So just now, these These are all different people. These were all farmers, agricultural workers, etc., women came in large numbers, young farmers came in large numbers in all this. And they succeeded in winning their demands. You understand in Maharashtra, there is a BJP government there also. Understand. So therefore struggle definitely will lead to victory. This we are very sure. And that is the trajectory that we are trying to come forward with. As you said, you are declaring one particular day as anti-imperialism day. One of the things which the US attack on Iran has done is it seems to have brought imperialism. The term imperialism back to the mainstream sort of merit more acceptable so to speak if not acceptable. That's all I have for you sir. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [MUSIC]