Why AI will dwarf every tech revolution before it: robots, manufacturing, AR glasses from CES 2026

♪ I'm going all the way ♪ ♪ To wonder what you're trying to do ♪ Thanks for coming out everybody. We're gonna have a great full contact, super hardcore discussion about the future, specifically around AI, which I think is the most important theme, not only of CES 2026, as we've seen with all the incredible gadgets, chips being launched, self-driving, but it's gonna be the most important transformation of our lifetime. So I think everything we've seen over the last 30 years of technology from the PC revolution to cloud computing, to the internet, mobile, all of that is gonna be dwarfed in comparison to the impact that AI is gonna have on society. If you're here at CES, you know that, you're here for that reason. And we've got two amazing guests who are gonna join us to have this debate. And additionally, I've brought my box, a box filled with all the ghosts and gadgets of Christmas past. And we're gonna go through those at the end of our discussion. But here's a quick video of our guests who will be joining me today. - From boardrooms to the White House and beyond, McKinsey's influence in business is virtually unparalleled. - It's one of the largest and most influential consulting firms in the world. - Enterprise can move faster than any of us expected, which is good news, because these problems aren't gonna be the problems of the next generation. They're gonna be the problems of our leadership generation. - Making this system a government better on both efficiency and effectiveness is key for economic growth and for national defense. We also think that some of the private sector insights that we have brought to the public sector can drive innovation. - Our next guest leads venture capital from General Cattles. - With 40 billion in assets in our management as of the year. - Our aspirations as venture capital is to be the best seed firm in the world. - The decisions we're making, the companies we're building are gonna impact the world for centuries to come. - Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Bob Sternfels and Hamant Teneja. - All right. Gentlemen, welcome. All right, team. Let's do it, let's do it. So we're here at CES 2026. It's really interesting to watch this conference get this new life breathed into it. We had this period during COVID when CES obviously had to take a pause. And we were wondering in Silicon Valley, hey, is anybody gonna show up at CES? Is it still relevant to people care? And now, look at this. This is one of the largest ones ever and everybody's here. I saw Lisa from AMD, Jensen from Indonesia, Uber, Nuro, Waymo, the change is amazing. I think maybe to start, you've spent a career at McKinsey, trying to accelerate change and in venture capital, Hamant, you know, literally building these businesses from the seed stage on. How do you look at the pace of innovation and change in this past two years since CHAT GPT was launched compared to the first 30 years of our careers where all of a certain Gen X age, compare the last two or three years to the 30 before it. - Yeah, well, first, Jason, thanks. And it's great to be up here with you guys. And yeah, I would just say this week is amazing. I think there's over 150,000 folks here this week. And you talk about CES being back. I think CES is back. And that's great. And with all of these things happening, I think there's such a premium on folks from different perspectives getting together 'cause that's where new ideas are created. And my big hope and why we're here is when you mix and mingle with different folks, you come up with new things. And the world needs new things. And what I love is you mentioned a lot of the tech leaders. What's exciting for this is I think everybody sees tech as part of the equation. And so when I look at the folks here in CES, you see not only the technology leaders, the investors, but you see folks from almost every industry vertical that are here now because they know that technology doesn't sit on the side. It's central to everything we do. And I get to your question, look, I think we're moving it at literally warp speed now. It's just night and day different. It's almost a DCAD type of thing when you can see the change of pace. And I haven't met a CEO yet that isn't talking about, how do I get my organization moving faster? It's quite frankly less about strategy. It's more about organizational speed. Hey, man, how does this feel compared to our first, you know, a couple of decades where companies would take two or three years to release a product. And now companies are releasing products in two or three weeks, two or three months. Yeah, so look, the world has completely changed, right? We've often said this is peak ambiguity. You have massive geopolitical change. You have an incredible amount of change around every country trying to drive strategic autonomy in different industries. And all those dynamics keep changing. Alliance is a new world order, everything. And then underneath that, our tool of implementation is technology. That keeps changing, right? So what the technologies can build today versus what the LLMs could do, let's say, two years ago. Or November 22, let's say when chat GPD came about, it's fundamentally different. So what are you building towards as to what the world's going to look like so you can have enduring value? And then what are you building with where the technologies you're using aren't going to option less and destroy your value proposition over time? It's just all kinds of change. And so it's a really dynamic time. And the other thing you will see it, we invested in Stripe in 2010. It became a $100 billion company, let's say, 12, 13 years later. You look at Anthropic, which we're also investors in, that goes from $60 billion last year to a couple hundred billion dollars. Like, and by the way, with good economic progress, these are not paying the sky valuation. They're based on actual growth of the business. Well, that goes back to your point, which is the compression of how fast value can create when code self-rights and access to distribution change to fundamentally. It's just really exciting. And I think it's going to accelerate from here. This was one of the statistics we would look at in venture capital. Hey, how long does it take this company to get to a hundred million in revenue? How long does it take to get to a billion in revenue? Unpack Anthropic and that journey. Because this company's revenue, and you have open AI, obviously, they're contemporary trending towards $20 billion in revenue a year. Where's Anthropic at? And what's the revenue mix? Where does the revenue come from? Well, look, Anthropic builds language models. It's going on some of the best models out. There's a couple of companies that are doing a good job at that. And then they've got Cloud on top, which is, to me, the essence of transforming the engineering department of a enterprise, right? And that's a killer application where everybody's not using these tools. So that business, when we invested, was doing about $880 million, which was a 10x growth from the year before. 10x year of a year. 10x growth the year before. And then this last year, they've announced it. They're growing another 10x or more. And so when you look at that, and we invested at the 60 billion dollar evaluation, assuming it's going to be like a 3x growth from there, because those are staggering numbers. And does 10x? Can't predict it. But to see it option is so fast. And so you look at that and say, so we ended up investing at $8, 9, 10 billion dollar run rate business at 60 billion. That's the cheapest deal that got done last year in venture capital on a financial space. So we just have to get our head around. What does scale really mean? And are we in the business of creating what we're using with, like, can we create decocorns? And now we're talking about can we create trillion on our companies, right? I mean, that's not a pie-and-disc idea with Anthropic and Open AI and a couple others. Games changed. Scale of technology is, you know, fundamentally different in what it can do. Bob, what's behind this massive revenue ramp? Because you get to see all the incumbent businesses. You get to see the elite businesses that are growing, you know, two or three times X each year. You also get to see the ones that are struggling. And then you see these large numbers and 10x of your growth. What's driving this in your mind? And is it sustainable? I mean, that's the other question. I hate to give you the classic consultant answer, but I do think it depends. And I think we're at a tipping point this year. And I'll tell you why. I think what's underpinning this 10x and 10x. You know, we work with most of the large enterprise in the world across all industry verticals. And what we have seen is a huge uptake of leveraging these technologies. Like in tropics, we're leveraging in tropics. And so large enterprise is using technology at a scale and rate that they haven't before. And if you look at IT spend as a percent of revenue, et cetera, all this stuff has gone up. And I think that is propelling the 10x to 10x. The conundrum is-- and it's been widely written about-- realizing enterprise at scale value in non-technology companies is proving harder than people think. Got it. So in plain English, that means, hey, you've got a travel company. There's somebody deploying AI. And you're watching what's happening at Tesla or Google. And they're getting these phenomenal results. But maybe that legacy business is having a harder time achieving those results. I'll make it even simpler. Typicals non-tech CEO might say, hey, Bob. Do I listen to my CFO or my CIO right now? CFO is saying, we spend all this money. Why do we need to be the fast adopter? I'm not seeing the ROI yet. Can we pause? CIO saying, are you frickin' crazy? This is the moment that if we don't, we'll be disrupted. We think-- now I will say that the shining part is, I think there's a path where you bring those two together as allies. And you say, yeah, let's rethink this. Get out of pilot purgatory. Really think the reorganization, all this stuff. There is a path. But I think right now, most CEOs are getting torn a bit between, do I listen to my CFO or do I listen to my CIO. And I think this is a really good jump off point amount of your strategy at general catalyst. You and I have known each other for a long time. You've spent a really long time, decades. And you always prided yourself on being the great seed fund. We're going to get to these companies when they're $10 million in 10 people and put that first check in. But then I saw this news item go by a month ago that you raised $9 billion. And then I see you're buying companies. So are you out of the seed business and now doing random acts of private equity? What's going on here? Explain to me the strategy in general catalyst. How much time do we have? It's going to take some time. So look, I would say we very much view ourselves as a venture capital for AmeriCorps and a seed venture capital for AmeriCorps. Because our true north from, for the 25 years we've been around, has been meeting founders where they are. And what that means is essentially help them navigate ambiguity in the past when they're beginning and the business isn't clear, all the way to figuring out how to scale in the complex markets that they go into. So everything we've done has been in that context of creating these catalysts, the flexible capital they need, the policy capabilities they need, the market access they need, and there's sort of relationships globally to actually build a nearing company. So that hasn't changed. So why did we go acquire a health system in Ohio, who's a non-profit, we work with the Attorney General, converted it. And I'd say this by the way, the great sense of responsibility, because that's a community in Akron, Ohio that we take care of. So that hospital has to continue operations and all the dimensions it takes care of with people. But we bought it to actually have a place where we can work with our founders and transform it AI, create abundance and resilience for this health system so it can take care of the people a lot better. And if we did that, then we can go do that for the other hundreds of systems across the country and we'll do that. So some of it is, that's market access. It's very hard for health care startups to go deploy successfully at scaling these systems. We are going to go show how. We're going to actually go underground, we'll do with them and show the world how, so it can transform the health system. The, you know, your other point about sort of buying companies, we look at that as there's a lot of workforce transformation happening, Bob and I talk a lot about this. I think work fundamentally in these companies has been a change. So if you're a call center in an emerging country today, the declining asset value, because you know it's going to be this place where they are. So we look at that and say, well, but those are customers on the other side, if we bought that as a piece of the puzzle to work with an early stage founder, to learn how to quickly accelerate adoption of AI into the call center space and sort of these customers and scale a lot faster, the compressed value creation we're talking about. That is, that is a new playbook. So this is not about trying to BPE. This is about acquiring businesses in PE that actually have declining value, but have important customers that need to be served and help them get to that AI transformation that Bob's talking about faster by getting our founders in there. This is extraordinary, Bob, when you think about it, just so the audience can put their head around this. Venture capital is used to back founders to then be the barbarians at the gate to try to take on these big industries. Now these big industries, in some cases, are in significant decline, struggling. And the venture capitalists are coming in and saying, we'll just buy the castle, open the drawbridge. We're going to buy it so that we can take our startups and accelerate whether it's health care, financial services, or customer support, and outsourcing, business process, outsourcing. And essentially, we don't care about that business economically, necessarily, as much as we care about it for access to that customer base. Running McKinsey, this is a playbook that is like coming out of the future in a time capsule and saying, we're going to just upend the entire ecosystem, yeah, yeah, I mean, I just gave a talk at a university and was talking to some potential folks to join us. And I said, look, I'm jealous. I'm jealous of all of you because you have a lot more time to do what we do than I do. And you're doing it at a time where it's going to be a lot more exciting. Because if you just link this and aim out what I love is, and effectively, you're creating a new asset class. This is not private equity. This is about how do you transform incumbent entities into something different? Private equity typically optimizes an existing asset class at a certain scale. This is about transformation. So you think of large existing enterprise. And I think you have a choice. You have a choice of transformer die. And so there's this wonderful moment. But because of somebody incumbent advantages, I wouldn't say that it's predetermined which way you're going to go. You can actually do this quite quickly. And I think you're showing the power of private capital that can actually do this. >> So we've tired a lot of buttons, right? So one of the things we think about transforming a large enterprise, what do you really need? You need a few pieces. One is you need data infrastructure that can ready you for the enterprise. You need the models adapted to you. And then you actually need a new model for how the workforce is going to function. Because you have agents and humans. And there's a massive change management exercise. So a lot of our partnership has been about through figuring out, what is that new model going to be to transform these businesses? And what does that mean when you get on the ground? So you look at department by department, take HR. How do you drive a transformation of healthcare and how you take care of your people? That process is horrible today. And we have a business called Transcarend. That goes in essentially, creates abundance in that regard. This uses AI. So you have direct access, energetically to all kinds of healthcare services, take yourself and then be able to be routed. Whether you need a surgery, or you need to have cancer therapy or mental health. And do it in a way that is seamless, cost effective and helps enterprises take control of the cost structure. You need coding to fundamentally transform. That's what Anthropic does. There are companies working on transforming the call centers. There are companies working on transforming their sales and marketing. But then when you have these technologies in there, how are the actual people going to do their work? In concert with these agente capabilities, that is a whole new model. And you guys are inventing a talk about that because there's a lot of innovation that needs to happen in that the whole sort of workforce transformation that I think is ultimately where Robert's going to meet the road on how quickly teams embrace it, customers embrace it and we can actually diffuse AI into these businesses. Bob, you've had to deal with this internally at your organization, what's the right size? And what happens when a piece of technology takes a career and takes out the first five years? What happens to an organization when you just basically gut the first five years of development? And this is why some people in the economy are looking at AI and they're scared. And they're looking at AI and saying, is this going to benefit me, my family, my kids who are graduating from school? This technology, and I think management consultants, the perfect place to look at it, tell me honestly, the first couple of years you're training up one of these really smart kids to write up reports and do analysis, that can be done with AI today perfectly, close to perfectly. - Yeah, so I'll give you a couple stats first on us and then we're general of 25 squared and 40,000 and 25,000. What do I mean by that? So let's look at McKinsey as a bit of an incubator. The 25 squared is, we're simultaneously doing two things at the same time. So we have client facing folks, which most of you in the audience would know and think about when you think about a McKinsey consultant. We're growing that body at 25% next year, 25% unprecedented number of new hires because the work is changing. They're not doing the stuff that you talked about. We saved, we looked at it, we saved 1.5 million hours in search and synthesis last year. But we're divinating that to solve more complicated problems and do different things. You guys are probably sick of McKinsey charts out there. We have agents that do this. They just gave you 2.5 million of them in the last six months. I want to get rid of charts, but the consultants are doing different things. We're adding 25% to that body. - So they're moving up the stack, they're moving up the stack and doing these more complicated problems at the same time though. About half our firm are non-client facing folks. We're down 25% in that group, with 10% increase in output. And so simultaneously, and I know this is hard also, particularly for folks to get, we're gonna be adding and shrinking simultaneously with the two halves. - And this has never happened in the history of the firm. Our model has always been synonymous that growth only occurs with total head count growth. Now it's actually splitting. We can grow in this part, the client facing side, and we can shrink in this part and have aggregate growth in total. And that's a new paradigm and a new dynamic. - We're seeing this in venture. You and I were around for the days where you'd give a team $3 million, and they would come back in 18 months, having spent it on data centers and building a team of 20 people, 30 people, then we'd see the first version of the product 18 months later. And then now- - This is the 3 billion now. - Yeah, but it's insane just how much more is getting done with less. And so do we worry about society and our industries, ability to communicate to society this change? Because if you were to tell an average business executive 10 years ago, prepared to hire 25% more people on this side of business and cut 25% on this side of business, in the same 18 month period, their head would explode. What, why? How come? It doesn't make any sense. And then young people are graduating and they're sending out 100, 200 resumes, getting no job offers. We were sitting here 10 years ago, every graduate from a decent school was like, I have an Uber, a coinbase, and a Google offer, which one should I take for 150K? And those offers just aren't there. So how do we communicate better as an industry? And then what's the advice to young people coming into the workforce? Yeah, look, every company has a sales looking value, broadly, in the tech industry, in the sort of industry. What it was, it essentially looks like a C-Corp with a bunch of engineers. But in the world where code self-rights, what is that next level of innovation? What are these companies actually going to do? I think that's ultimately the transition we're going through in what does innovation actually mean? It's going to be less about being able to write code fat as much what we're going to be about systemically, how to get off this into the world. And capabilities to your point about ambiguity in the opening, because we don't know about the capabilities of these technologies, or they'll have the world shaping up there's a lot of ambiguity. So to me, the companies that do really well, and the way we got the founders, a lot of it, is become iterative, constantly change, constantly move forward, as opposed to what used to be before was become precise. Find this narrow wedge, create your growth loop, and go build a company, not like constantly iterate. And in order to have the customers give you the license to iterate, comes out to trust in relationships. So founders that are very good at engaging with customers, building trust in relationships and say, "Hey, we're going to go figure this out together." We know how to leverage this technology, but we don't really know where it leads and what the possibilities are, will we co-create? And so the advice I always give is that's all about radical collaboration in this next phase. We've got to figure this out together where different stakeholders that all touch a system are figuring out what this means to them, and then what it means in terms of the overall optimization and the transformation that we can do with it. - You know, one, maybe an exciting part to this, 'cause I think you framed is you're a graduate, and how do you get into the workforce, and is it getting tougher? And we did a little bit of work that said, "What kind of skills are folks going to need "in an AI-infused world?" From an employer's point of view, less the startup, but you're more an at-scale enterprise, what can the model not do? And so therefore, what skills will humans play? And the work isn't done, but came back with kind of three key ideas. What can the model not do? A spire, set the right aspiration. You go to low-earth orbit, do you go to the moon, do you go to Mars? That's a uniquely human capability. So how do you look for the skills about aspiring and getting others to believe in the aspiration? - So leadership in goal setting, human, human, judgment. And we've seen a lot around in this room, e-vows, but there's no right and wrong in these models. And so how do you set the right parameters, the architecture based on firm values, based on societal norms, whatever? How do you build the skills to set what the right parameters are? And then finally, true creativity. The models are inference models, the next most likely step, how do you think about orthogonal stuff? And so some of the work we've been doing with large enterprises, if you believe in some of that, it can take you back to challenging some of your assumptions on where you look for talent. It actually means that where you went to school matters a lot less. And so do you start looking for wrong trinsics? Can you widen the base? Can you actually look at, let's take a tech background, not which university you graduated from, but what does your GitHub profile look like? Let's actually get to the content, and could that actually start meaning that a wider set of people can enter the workforce with different pathways? - One of the things you said really resonates is around creativity, because what we were gonna call it, it was all about learning how to solve problems really well. And now in the world where we have this technology that can solve problems for us, it really is about asking the right questions, like going back to the democratic dialogue. It is about creativity, and who can imagine best what the world is gonna look like, and then leverage these technologies to go shape the world towards that to your point about vision. And teaching our kids, you know, I get this question a lot about how do you want your kids growing up? It's like learning how to ask the right questions versus solving how to, you know, work on hard problems. So it's a very different mindset. And it is about curiosity, and kind of back to being kids, when you're growing up, it is about challenging your curiosity. Can we actually rethink our pedagogy in a way that we can develop this next generation to be more that than it's eight o'clock on Wednesday morning, and I'm gonna factor polynomials 'cause I'm in, you know, seventh grade, which is what our system looks like today. - Yeah, the advice I've been given to young people is, there's nobody coming for you. There's no training program. You have to make that for yourself. And do not go in through the front door of the resume, just email the CEO of the company and redesign their landing page. And say, these are the three things that I think could be better. And I saw you speak on this podcast. I think your company's incredible. I would love to come work there. And I did this spec work. Now people are like, why should I do free work? To get a job, to prove you actually have a skill that is meaningful. You're not going to be able to get into a training program. So many folks now in corporate America, especially the people who are onboarding people are just like hiring somebody and training them is gonna take longer than building an agent. I can build an agent. Young people coming into the workforce I have to train are annoying. Setting up an agent who just does the work is easy. That's the game on the field right now that people don't want to talk about, which means to stand out, you're gonna have to show Hootspah. You're gonna have to show Drive. You're gonna have to show Passion. And what college is doing that? What college is teaching that? What course is that? - Look, I think there's a massive gap in resilience. - Yes, you know, resilience. 'Cause what you've got under that is, you're gonna get knocked down. - Yeah. - The question is, do you get back up? And how do you get back up? And I think the educational system today doesn't necessarily build institutional or individual capability in resilience. - If we could wave a magic wand, you should go off on a complete tangent here. What should the education system look like in 2026? 'Cause you're buying businesses, you have one in healthcare. That's one of the three hardest businesses to make change in historically. The other two here in America that have the most regulation are the most expensive and are the hardest and that Americans are suffering under the most are housing and education. Those are the three big ones. When I run for president, that's gonna be my platform. Is those three? I'm gonna solve this, right? But go ahead and solve education for us right now. And are you gonna buy a college next? - Transform. - And transform? - I'm basically buying business all the businesses that make no money. Is that where we're going? I would say-- - No, the businesses that are the most (beep) - Yeah, one of the ones that need to endure for the longest actually, that's the way I look at it. So here's the thing about education. This idea that we spend 32 years learning and then we spend 40 years working as a broken idea. If the learning of technology and the development of technology is gonna be so dynamic. So what about going from a four-year college to a lifelong college? But actually your relationship with learning is that it's a lifelong skilling and reskilling kind of an experience. We've talked about this before as well. I mean, there's some innovative college presidents that are thinking about that, which is, first of all, better business, better lifetime value if you're a college and you actually have a client or a student for perpetuity versus paying if for four years. And much more useful for us to be able to go and have that capability and constantly learn what these capabilities are doing and how the workforce is evolving and how to stay ahead in terms of where the opportunity is. This, so learning has to become much more fluid and we need to become a community of lifelong learners as we adapt to a world where AI is being diffusing through us over the years. - And I would just add, I'm with you on this. And the system built close to 700 years ago was designed around a high fixed cost, libraries and professors to then take you out for a finite period of time to learn and then effectively you're set off in the workforce. If you start to think about the half-life of skills getting shorter and shorter and we've done some work at our global institute that said for an employer, the return on investment that you give an employee in terms of skills has shrunk by about half over the last 30 years. It used to be about seven years return. It's less than four years, so about 3.6 years now return. And that's only getting shorter and shorter as things change. So if you believe that, I think you start to pivot to are we teaching people to continue to learn new things as opposed to master a particular subject? Do you have that ability? One of the things that we've now indexed on and I mentioned this 40,000 and 25,000, that is the number of humans we have and the number of personalized agents we have as of last week in McKinns. And I think we'll be a parody by the end of this year. So you're literally deploying agents that can do a full 360 degree trusted job function. Absolutely, where is it working really well and where is it not working well? It works when you have a specific domain area that you know ultimately where value can be created. So for us, that's in structured problem solving, it's in around search and synthesis, it's around more effective communication, these types of domain areas. But where I was going with this, so the skill is, are you skilling people to actually become superhuman by leveraging agents? Right. That becomes a skill. And I don't think we're actually equipping that right now. It's a bit more random or sometimes actually excluded in the classroom as opposed to embracing it and figuring out how do you actually take advantage of it. It's almost like we need to train people to go from being part of the Augusta to everybody being the conductor and everybody having their own Augusta of agents working for them. And that, you know, I always look to startups 'cause their resource constrained. And I was at a dinner in Singapore and I had a dozen founders there and I said, has anybody hired anybody in the last, you know, 60 days, they all raise their hands? And then I said, okay, how many of you have an HR person who wrote the job description? Nobody raises in. I said, how many of you typed into an LLM write a job description for this, all 12 hands go up. So now you think just HR, the entire blocking and tackling of it has been writing the job description and sorry, good resume. So then I asked the next question which was how did you sort through the resumes coming in and they said half of them had built agents to sort through the resumes and stack rank them using AI. And I said, whoa, holy cow, like this is like the typing pool, the mail room, the photo, for those of you who are under 40 years old, we had a room which is called the typing pool. Then we had one called the mail room where packages came in, messengers, all those went away. That four of the building got redeployed and I think that's what we're going to see. Like the HR department, the legal department, all getting compressed, really interesting. >> It's already happening. And I think as we think about our own transfer and be for our own business, we basically say every department needs to have AI teammates. Now, are those AI teammates like the co-pilot or pilot? Can you fully empower them to do stuff or are they giving you efficiency? That depends on how well the technology works, how complex the problem is, how severe the problem is. So like in healthcare, for example, if it's life and death decisions, you want humans making those, today, because that technology isn't as reliable. So I think sort of having a framework, but saying every one of your departments is going to have to say our agents. If you're not doing that, then you're not preparing yourself for this next phase and that's a lot of what you see. You are already going to be one to one. That's an enormous ratio. >> Well, but the problem, I think, Jason, that you alluded to earlier in this. There's all this potential, but folks aren't thinking through the dynamic implications in their enterprise model versus the static. So the static might be, hey, there's all these departments. I can apply this, I'll radically shrink it, I'll reduce the number of layers in an organization. I may slow hiring on the inbound to your point. The dynamic is okay, but what does your company look like in five years' time? And what I often ask a CEO is, okay, you're doing all this stuff. What's the pathway to your job? How does somebody get to your job in the org of the future? You had a pathway, it's not going to be that same pathway, but if you don't hire inbound folks, you can't continually laterally bring in a CEO. >> You literally like taking the bottom floor runs off the ladder to save money today. >> How do you get everybody's jumping up, trying to get a new organization? It's like, well, we don't have a path there. You're going to have to be really thoughtful about making that investment. And it feels like the first two years of AI were about cutting jobs. And we really need to think about, hey, it's not just about efficiency, it's about opportunity. >> He said, what's that other 25%, right? That's what I think we got to lean into. >> Let's take a little diversion here before I open my box. >> At the black box. >> My box here of all the great CES innovations over the last 20 years. Physical AI, we've been talking here very cerebral about what's happening in enterprises, what's happening in software. But you have self-driving is probably the theme, I would dub 2026 CES as self-driving CES. I will dub 2027 as robotics, humanoid robotics specifically. We're starting, obviously people are showing off all these incredible robots here. But I think consumers will be experiencing them in 27. But consumers are experiencing this year, self-driving, Neuro and Lucid have an incredible product. Zooks has been here. Obviously, Elon's doing great things with Robotaxi. He feels like he's closing in on a solution and getting very close. Waymo obviously is leading the pack. But then you also have Baidu, Libaba, Uri, Ponyai. This is a global race. What would the world look like in 2026 in terms of self-driving? And then any second and third order impacts of those, and then do the same for robotics. >> If you go around the world today, right? You go to, you go to Middle East, where there is focus on interesting luxury products, there's a market for it. BYD and a lot of these Chinese companies are actually penetrating deeply everywhere. These companies have all the features and functionality and they really low cost. And so one thing is that the dynamic of the auto industry and the European auto makers are all very dejected, 'cause they don't know how they're gonna compete in the Chinese industry. US has innovation, self-driving innovation, which allows you to say the next generation of winning automotive companies will take advantage as this platform shift. US has a technology, but it doesn't have the manufacturing capabilities to actually say, can you actually make it as cost-effectively as a Chinese maker is gonna be? So it's not as easy to figure out how the world order on automotive is gonna shift around the world. And so part of the physical AI and the use of AI and manufacturing is to figure out how do you design and manufacture products, next generation products right here in the US in a way that mimics the cost advantages of China so that then our innovation can then carry the day for us to be the global leaders yet again in this next phase. So we have a company rebuild manufacturing that's focusing on this, for example. There's a lot of focus I need to get on that, because if it's self-driving, it's not cost-effective. - Yeah, some of us will buy it, but it's never gonna be a mainstream product because cost has, I mean, there's a reserve price that really shifts the demand patterns around automotive and you probably have good data on this as well. We should talk about that, but we gotta get the AI right and we gotta get the manufacturing cost right as well. - No, I think that there's a massive coming down the cost curve on this, I'm with you, Jason. I think we're gonna see literally over the next 12 to 24 months, the massive transformation. I think the race is a foot, right? The race is a foot between a, let's say a western stack and a Chinese stack on this. And then in rest of the world, it'll be interesting as a battleground to see where that plays out, but and you and I were talking a little bit about this. I think that is a massive trend. I think a larger trend will be the trend to robotics and not just for human interaction, but in manufacturing. And when you think about the challenges that the Western world faces, so take the US, I was talking to the CEO of one of the large contract manufacturers and she has 50,000 job openings right now for US manufacturing jobs in America that she can't fill. And our demographics aren't getting better on this front. Germany is even worse situation. - Yeah, Germany, Germany, like another level. And I think the only way that you build resilient supply chains at the cost point that you're talking about is it's gonna be robotics at the heart. And this race I think is wide open. Korea leads the way and robots per worker, they're about one to 10 right now. Germany and China are tied at second. And the US then is a distant third. And so there's a real race. You talked about the autonomy thing. I would actually jump to the robotics thing and wonder how they do this. - One of the issues in robotics is, so when you build the LLMs, you could dump them into cloud experiment with something called chat GPD and because pervasive. If you have good robotics models, what's next? You don't have a hardware capability. That's like an API infrastructure that diffuses those models fast. So like there's a lot that needs to get built. So I actually think robotics will be slower than people think in terms of really taking hold. But it's essential to go lead in that. If you can go lead in manufacturing and therefore have that core advantage to play up to stack in industries like automotive. There's not a way to do it. - Yeah, I don't want to name drop. But I went two weeks, two Sundays ago I went to Tesla with Elon and I went and visited the Optimus Lab. There were a large number of people working on a Sunday at 10 a.m. And I saw Optimus 3. I can tell you now, nobody will remember that Tesla ever made a car. They will only remember the Optimus and that he is going to make a billion of those. And it is going to be the most transformative technology product ever made in the history of humanity. Because what LLMs are going to enable those products to do is understand the world and then do things in the world that we don't want to do. I believe there will be a one-to-one ratio of humans to Optimus. And I think he's already won. But I don't want to speak out of school. But I do have a box. - We go to the box. - Have a box. And these are all really interesting technologies that we all got to save. How many people owned one of these? (laughing) I mean, Michael Douglass made this famous. Remember Wall Street on the beach, making trades. And there was an amazing, you will commercial. Remember the AT&T, you will commercial. And this was one of them. You'll be able to work remote from the beach. What is the equivalent of this today? What do you think, we're going to look back on this year and laugh at in 30 years. This is something from the 80s. So I guess this is 30 years ago. What are we going to look at that we're all enamored with today that will kind of get a little go-fi out of? - Well, you know what I'll tell you. By the way, I love it. It says California mobile phone on this. That was like the brand associated. And two memories come to mind for me on this. One was envy. 'Cause when I started only the most senior people could get one of these and I couldn't. I was like, well, they're just like, when you grabbed one, I don't want one of those. $4 a minute? - Exactly, three of $4 a minute. - And some battery lasts about 30 minutes. - Exactly, some new associate doesn't get one of these. - When did you have your first mobile phone? - I'm too young for this. - Too young for that. It's such a lie. - You had to start tack, like me. That started tack, like. - But the second, and this was made infamous, was one of the great things unfortunate, great failures that we had was we did a project and it was published a while ago for AT&T in the mid '80s that said these things were never gonna take off. So I'll phone them. - Never gonna get going. - You can put it on the j- - I don't know why you burned me with this one. - But by the way, what do you remind? Like something today, just to answer your question. Think about a lot of the eyeglass innovation is having. This was with your ears. Innovation is trying to be the eyes on how to intelligent navigate. I think that there's so many attempts that have not worked in the last one here or something. There we go. - It's a really good segue. - There we go. - There we go. - Now, as ridiculous as I look right now, I can hear the camera's taking my picture and you will not be spared 'cause you'll be wearing them as well. I remember when Larry and Sergei started walking around with these. In fact, Larry, I was at a party and he came on the dance floor of these and I said, "Larry, take those off. "All the girls are gonna start dancing "if you keep walking around with them." He just said, "Really?" I was like, "Yeah, that's not how dancing works." But if you think about this product, why did they stop making this? They should have kept iterating and this was AR before AR. You could see right through it. The head of its time. - Go ahead and try it off. - There you go. - And now forever, you will also be getting in for me. - There you go. - You're turned. - Thank you. - I'm too smart to do it. - All right, I'll do it. But by the way, the new ones aren't much better. The form factor, but the utility isn't there, though. So when you look at it, today's version of this is what this was. - Yes. - We're not really yet. - Now here's one. This is a miniature version. I tried to get this and if anybody can get me this, I'll pay $10,000 for it, maybe $25,000. The Theranos One Drop Blood Machine. This was like one of their cha cheese. - Ooh. - But in truth, you're now in health care, this may have been a fraud allegedly in reality. She's in jail, I guess, so I don't want to, I mean, maybe there's a chance it was all, she's innocent, who knows? I'll leave that possibility out there, allegedly. But this, the promise of this, captured people's imagination, a small amount of blood to get a lot of data back. And in fact, in fairness to Elizabeth, she was able to do a couple of interesting tests with a small amount. This was a great product idea, correct? - Yes. - Yes. - Will somebody create that with AI in the next 10 years? - I think it's very likely, because the talent with this is, can you actually manufacture those nano devices where you can take really low volumes and be accurate and measure these things? Technology wasn't there. So when you're going back to our hardware and manufacturing innovations, I think they will catch on to enable this. And you want this. You want this to be that, you know, you can have real-time diagnostics, think about a modern physical, and be much more preemptive about a health care. Like, pervasive, effective capabilities, like these design points will be useful for that. - And you have function health, you have super power now doing, I don't know if you guys use either of those products, but getting your blood work done every year, having, you know, a concierge, talked to you about it for $800 a year, $600 a year, obviously, consumer-led health care, and the Theranos vision. - I think there's a growing movement around longevity. It's like become a cultural phenomenon. And so that's, first of all, the fact that consumers are a propensity to pay, if they've become the color row, for example, that focus on GLP ones. Because there's their propensity, it drives innovation to create more products like this that are focused on keeping your healthy. - How many people owned one of these? - Raise your hand. - All right, and how many of people have three of these in their closet that they can't throw away? - I mean, the keyboard. - This was the greatest product ever. - So we, so I just started by the college, one of the very first apps that was non-email on this, we wrote that. And it was a merchandising app for Red Bull. So they could actually do inventory tracking in a store. And this was, like, this is an amazing product, you know? - I'm still faster on this keyboard. - Right. - I mean, this was, like, for McKinsey, this was your cocaine. - We had some, this was, and we had some very senior people, even when we might, that wouldn't have up. - Okay, that's a sadist story. It just gives me anxiety. I used to, I grew up writing apps on this. And then in 2011, I moved to the valley, and I had my blackberry, I put on a table like this. I met with somebody who was well-known person in the valley. We had a good conversation. At the end of it, he said, "You still use a blackberry?" I was like, "Yeah, he's like, stop doing that. "You were judged in this meeting." - I could do not. Like, okay. - Well, I mean, just think about-- - I just wanna touch it. - You were, you were a whole lot of ways to do. - Just think about how many carpal tunnel surgeries this created. - Oh, absolutely. - I mean, this was great for the economy. This is an interesting one. How many people owned? - Palm. - A pilot. - Yeah. - It's incredible. - Right. - And this one, I guess, of a stylist. - No, the stylist isn't here. We got this off of eBay, thanks to my friends at CES. But you got to learn script, and you would be very good at, you know, spending at a party three or four minutes typing in some-- - And you'd have to have your phone separately, right? - Yes. - Two different devices. - And if you really wanted to be, like, have a lot of swagger and a lot of ris, you would have this on one side of your belt. I know you had this off. You couldn't have it there, didn't you? - Yo, you have to be equal. - And the blackberry-- - On the other side. - That was like, you were like a thud slinger. - Yeah, and then in the early days when the blackberry didn't have the phone, then you had the phone, too. So then you look like a utility guy. - I know that in college, you lost a lot of brain cells to this one. The first ad on the internet was a banner ad for Zima. - Oh, boy. - How many people have had a Zima? Oh, too many, you'd have it. - This was the most repulsive drink in the world. We got an empty can of it. It's still available, I think, in Sweden. I think there's one place that still has the license and produces this horrific beverage. - But do you know you look at all the carbonated stuff now? - I mean, I think this is a fine version of this. - Y-Claw, yeah, I think that's that generations. - You won't. - I actually ran a marathon with one of these on my waist in New York City, the Sony Discman. - It didn't skip when you were running. - You see, this is a very good point. I had the bad one that had 10, it had a 10 second buffer. This was lead at the time, it's an extra 50 bucks. It would buffer 10 seconds. And then obviously the iPod came out. What do we think in terms of the limited capabilities, but the inspiration of this will, we look back on at this moment in time. In other words, a device that could go a thousand X in its capability, but providing the same similar functionality, in this case, being able to have portable music. - That's interesting, 'cause you think of the Walkman before this, which was the cassette. It wouldn't skip, that was durable. Advancing technology and moving from analog to digital, but less durable. - Yeah, but better fidelity. - Better fidelity, transition to iPod, whatever, that then solve both of the equations. And it gets you think, what are the transition technologies we're in right now? And one of the places I come back to is health wearables. So many different health wearables out there, and they're all attacking the problem from slightly different angles. - Yes. - Some advances, but I think we're on the cusp, I go back to marrying this plus wearables, to having more continuous monitoring and data. We might be, this might be the transition step on wearable. - Yes, between your eight sleep, your aura, your whoop, all of that, your blood, we're coming together, and giving you customized medicine. - I think that's a better answer than I was gonna give. - What are you gonna do with my answer is the LLM hallucinations. Because when you think about the intelligence, it's actually unreliable in a lot of ways, just like the music was unreliable with this, and is that gonna change fundamentally? - That's pretty good. - That's the last one. This was a very interesting device because for people who don't know, this one might have text messaging on it, but it used to just tell you the phone number of the person who text call back. So now if you were dating, and you were in the dating pool, and you got that text from that special number, you're like, oh, how many minutes before I call back? I gotta go find a pay phone and call back. But you used to be able to give a number. So after you paid somebody, you could put in a couple of digits code. So we started to have our own vernacular 4-1-1, or 9-1-1, and you could append to your beep, some numbers, like maybe your location, et cetera, the street number you were on, et cetera, really, an interesting product and how we never got to turn off work. That led to always on. Doom scrolling, the never ending nature of our commitment to work, and in some ways now, we're starting to see a reverse of that. People are buying phones. I understand a lot of millennials now are buying digital cameras so they can leave their phone at home, and they're getting flip phones. So they've unbundled it, really interesting. Any memories of the pager for you? - Yeah, first of all, they always see all the money made in bundling, and unbundling, and that is happening. And I think it is about, if you're going to say the equivalent of this, which is about how do we go back to human connection and engaging in person as opposed to trying to beat lonely online, being fulfilled offline. That's probably the behavioral change that's going to happen. What enables that, I think, is probably there is some social engineering that's going to drive that. - All right, this has been an amazing hour. Well done, gentlemen, big round of applause for our guests. (upbeat music) - Thank you so much for hosting, it was incredible. Thank you, we've been a great audience.