Why AI Finally Works for Accounting? - Byron, Ping and Truss

we may be aviator jacket on just for the occasion uh this is literally just what i wed at the office every day um this old thing from my days in the mill for what when i was flying welcome everyone to the desorabuse podcast i'm your host adam and welcome back to the counting founder series today with us we have like three founders who have been building in the space who are atypical for like the typical counting founder they've come in but they've built great products and with us we have lace from buy-in, camden from pain and then dan from trust we're gonna start off with talking with camden camden i like when you and i met you told me that you had been a bc before and you wanted to build in the space just to prove that how you want to take life on hot mode and start being a fun girl again at the same time you recently congratulations on your work of your life son and with that you're not doing extreme hot mode how's why build go from a bc to start building in the space and how has it been going so far well i'm glad i'm the first one to start you know so we can start low and then just each one after us can build better and better so yeah no it's been awesome thank you having a new baby is has increased the difficulty of life i as assumed but you know and you don't know it and you really are in it and sleep is a precious resource but yeah so my career started a company called divi divi was spend management back when spend management wasn't really a thing we we were pretty proud of what we were doing as the first intern there and i just earned my way up the ranks of earning more and more respect and if we started this there's the beginning of this partnership program that was working with accounting firms and they put us in the back they seem like there's a lot of work to like why would you work with accountants to then help businesses and the leadership didn't fully understand and i'm actually the son of a CPA that i always joke you turn to the dark side though so he's in both management but he was he is a CPA and i've been around accountants most my life and i said i don't know i feel like it's going to be pretty successful so i put all of my chips in on standing up this partnership program and we started working with firms from across the country and it was awesome we saw some serious serious success i was actually still in school at the time studying accounting actually dropped out but i'm an almost accounting graduate and then went all in at divi divi later got acquired by bill.com and was that bill for a little bit but realized i don't like working at large companies so i i left bill and started a venture fund with two other partners they were very much the the people who knew what they were doing and i was just the the young gun that was willing to to work hard and to get some stuff done and you're going to hear from blaze in a second who has a much deeper investment background than i do like it's it's embarrassing comparatively but um we raised a hundred million dollars to go invest in early stage technology and it was fun and it was really really fun but i i quickly learned that building technology is a lot more engaging and fun than investing in it and so i took a step back so actually i sold off all of my carried interest in all the equity i had in in the company in the firm so i could go all in on paint and i've been been hanging out ever since and it's been a party and then how did you make the decision on like building specifically at the note-taking space instead of like doing the compliance the planning the advisory you all like did it into it yeah so for us note-taking was like the very much the first like the first rung in the ladder like we saw that it's just a very easy way to enter into the accounting market there weren't really note-takers for accountants at the time and i mean we'll talk about this later i'm sure but the funny thing is i build a note-taker and i'm like one of the first people to say i don't ever look at my notes it's almost irrelevant right like i notes or just another paragraph novel to read and that's not super interesting to me it's what you can do with that data and we we found my hypothesis and it's becoming true i mean we have trust that helps we have viren that helps the compliance work is going to be automated to some level from zero to full right and we have some really really smart people building to fix that but what that's going to enable is people talking to their clients more and i was like oh well people are going to be talking to their clients more we should build a tool that helps them talk to their clients more and so since then we've built a lot of other tooling that helps find revenue opportunities helps with different you know administrative tasks but the whole bet was there's really smart people trying to solve compliance work and people are going to have to step into advisory and talking to their clients so we wanted to be in that in that race and then how do you guys think about like physical meetings and because most quantizations maybe happen over dinner or coffee like where does the hypothesis sit over there on caption that context yeah so we capture that already so we have a phone app we have you can you can record it on your computer or phone calls or slacks or really any communication that you're having with your client ping is capturing so I mean the answer is we think it's important to capture okay perfect all right so then moving to the next run in the ladder we go to a dan then you guys do from trust is like to stop with a document intake process which is like one of the biggest programs for tax professions you when you were building why did you think like where did you identify like hey i want to build in here but at the same time you went through many different iterations of trust on where you like are ended up here and you have a really unique story from like what I put from people on how it was the typical founder journey and you bootstrapped it to like this successful product extension stats like recommended product you go for in document intake I was like let us hear that story from you yeah well first of all I love this podcast you do an atom totally inspired by this this is this is great and thanks for having me on I mean the reason I got into accounting is because it's super sexy so I mean like who doesn't want to be an accounting right yeah really the the reason I got into accounting is because I saw actually kind of an industry outsider as you mentioned a little bit of a Cinderella story and the reason I chose accounting was because I saw just how little love accounts got I had been developing product a product to solve that client interaction problem because I was I was on the front lines and understood that deeply I was on the on the front lines interacting with clients in other aspects of finance kind of like Camden a little bit of background in investment advisory have my series 65 before that in the deep dark dank basement of finance and mortgage and really experiencing I kind of came up during the the digital transformation if you remember that like in the early 2010s right that we were being promised the nirvana that like everything because it started out at that time everything was paper folders floating around the office and we're we're being promised the nirvana of this like you know oh we're gonna it's all gonna be on portals and clients are going to use it and it's going to be amazing and then that just never materialized right it just it actually life got worse it got harder along the way and as I was kind of waiting for the next portal and the next portal to solve the problem finally realized you know portals are not solving this problem and so I you know I finally reached the point where I was like all right I'm probably the least qualified person around to solve this problem but somebody's got to do it and so I was kind of one of those moments where jumped in and took the bowl by the horns and started building and as you know through a series of miracles and a lot of kindness from a lot of people have now you know built a you know profitable you know bootstrapped company without outside funding without outside capital again by just by a series of miracles so you had like three questions in there so I feel like I missed to go so yeah so we talked about the journey over there what I was really interested in trust is like how you guys think about like launching your products and like partnerships because I feel like you guys are like one of the most collaborative like applications out there and like the firms out there in the space what made the decision and how does that like reach out like what is like your thesis behind it yeah I think the the legacy products the legacy softwares in the space are very territorial unfortunately and it's really harmed the industry and that's very apparent to everybody how how much it's holding things back is the lack of collaboration if we're truly doing what's in the best interest of our of our users and the industry and their clients as well we're going to collaborate we're going to work together we're going to make our softwares work together and so you know there's I mean like for instance I mean both Blaze and Camden we you know we all partner here you know we're we're helping to try to to we can't do this alone there's a huge transition coming in the industry where we have to make the move from compliance to advisors the same thing that happened in the financial industry and the the weld advisory industry you know about a decade ago when robo advisors started coming out you remember that Camden when the robo advisors were coming out and everybody was was running around doing a lot of hand waving saying our you know what is it going to mean to be a weld advisor anymore robo advisors are going to come take all the jobs and and you know we saw the pattern there of what transpired is that ultimately ultimately the the weld advisors that survived and protected there because there was a major margin compression that happened for those that weren't providing value to their clients weren't providing the actual advisory and we have the same thing that's going to happen here in this industry now you know about 10 to 15 years later is that the industry has to make the move to to raise the level of value that we're offering to clients to offer the advisory that clients that actually we as it as you know accountants accountants got into the the profession to help people right and they they had the original vision of being that advisor being that trusted source and really it's kind of devolved into this you know very administrative role unfortunately and so but we can't do this transition alone right I need like you know for instance ping it's peanut butter and jelly between what we do you know ping is helping to pull in the client context so that we can surface those advisory opportunities right and same with same with what what by. Byron is doing. Byron is playing a part there to help eliminate all of that, you know, data entry, just the, you know, the monotony, the tedium part of it that's not actually adding value to what your clients are paying you to do. And so together all three of us where we bring the client experience at trust helping lower the friction and increase client adoption and improve the experience. And then with Byron doing their part and paying doing their part, you know, we can't do these things alone. We have to work together as an industry. That seems just like a, that seems like a super obvious to me. And I think to, you know, Blaze and Camden here as well. And now with that, like moving on to Blaze, Blaze, like you built Byron to handle the compliance piece in this like jigsaw puzzle, but you have like, as with Camden, you had like a VC background originally from Australia, then you like, bike road all the way through the continent, all the way through London. I don't know how you like the ocean part, but like continent of Africa is probably worth dropping in there. Okay, perfect. So you did that. And then you became a VC as city ventures, you left the funding and like some of the biggest companies out of that household names. What made you, where was that light bulb moment where I want to go ahead and build attacks compliance or AI tax. I studied accounting and undergrad and so I'd always thought I was going to become an accountant and I ended up joining Credit Suisse on their investment banking team. And I spent a couple years of Credit Suisse and the whole time there was just like taking random PDF documents and trying to get them into Excel spreadsheets. And I used to just spend all of my time doing this and thought there must be a better way to solve this problem. I ended up living with some startup founders for a while in Sydney and was really wanting to start a business then and decided ultimately that I wanted to do it in the US. And so I moved over to the US and I did my Masters in Computer Science, so I could launch a code that you should cargo. And you'd like get there and you're like, oh cool, I'm at business school, I think of a business idea. And it's like the worst place in the world to think of a business idea. Like the only idea you have is like, what's the next travel app I could book because that's the only problem you face. Being unsure, you don't really want to go and build something unless you have like a passionate about that problem with those things. You dedicate so much of your life to it. And so you do what everyone does when they have no idea what to do and like startups, you go and become a venture capitalist and you don't pontificate about the future. But I always sort of, I really loved coding, I really had a desire to build something. I was investing in all these AI companies. Like the first semester I made was a company that grew deep ground in 2020 that was powering voice applications with transformers and we were seeing a lot of the stuff that was happening there. And I sort of increasingly started being like, okay, this is, I'm going to do something, this is the time to do something. And one of the problems that there was getting PDFs into Excel and just getting like 10 different Excel documents sent to me and trying to get them into a singular financial model also. I've been these two things that had been these overarching problems throughout my career. When I saw what LLMs could do with Excel and started to see the early stuff that was happening there. I was like, maybe we could actually build something that could really transform the way that you manipulate and bring Excel documents together. That led to the idea that we wanted to build a business, a product finance professionals and ultimately as we did more and more work on that and talked to more and more friends was discovered that this problem that I've been facing was just like a much more acute problem for accounts and they had way less tooling. And especially on the business tax side, they had almost no tooling. And so we set out to try and build that last year and like honestly we just couldn't get it to work. Like we were trying to get it to work trying to get it to work and the LLMs just like what quite that we couldn't get the accuracy on it. And at the same time would build document processing pipeline because we knew we'd need to process things like K ones into these returns. And believe it or not, I was we were explaining this to Dan at a conference. Well, my coworker wasn't Dan said, if you guys can do that, I'll put you on my platform and we were like, what? And we had one customer at this point in time and Dan's like, yeah, I'll do a test of your product and if it works, like we'll use it. And we tested it on his product and he was like, wow, this works really well. We had built a document processing pipeline. I could do 1040 returns really well. So we ended up partnering with Dan for part of his AI prep, which has been an amazing partnership for us because he has this amazing customer base, these documents come in and we can help them do this compliance piece. And then we've been since then building business tax products this year because you know the LLMs really caught up and you can now just do some incredible things that just want possible six months ago because the technology wasn't really there. But really, I just had a desire to build something for a long time and I think like Camden, like BC's like, I would call it a pot, I would suggest that it was a pot time job. And it was a very nice lifestyle and it was a lot of things but it's this point in time is just so interesting with what's going on with AI that it felt like if I missed this, I'd miss my once in a lifetime opportunity where I was like the right age and the technology was here and there was like incredibly fun and interesting things to build. And we are just incredibly interested in building like long running agents that can do processes like end to end and really take that monotonous data entry sort of work off people. Maybe we'll just spend more time on the things that the other people have been talking about like advisory and those sorts of things with the AI is going to play a very important role in giving just much better client service to customers than the accounts have time to give them today. And then with Byron you guys do all 1040s, 1120s, 1065s, K1s, the entire gambit of the process. Yeah, we are doing much to the process today. And so yeah, it's been fun. So if you're based in SF, you're like really close to the heart of like where all the AI labs are and how do you see where all the technology and the AI implementation that's happening in the space. How do you see like maybe 12 months from now, 18 months from now because it changes so fast, how are you seeing the accounting tech space going to change with the next 6 to 12 months. I think that the accounting tech space is still pretty nice and compared to many other markets. So if you look at something like legal when you've got hobby and LaGora, accounting doesn't have a hobby with LaGora sort of company today. And the reason for that is that LLMs are incredibly good. Original LLMs are incredibly good at search and summarization. That was a perfect problem for legal. Whereas accounting you needed a level of accuracy that was a lot higher to bring agents into those processes and get them to take off. And I think that over the last couple of years, the technology was there to do basic automation. And I think over the next 12 to 24 months, you're going to see just massive step changes. And as we've seen every 12 to 24 months, and I think that you're going to see that a hobby or LaGora sort of company and accounting comes. So it comes like a gold standard, the people like, "Oh, we just need to have this product because it's saving us so much time." Whereas the historical products just weren't saving enough time for the accountants for them to come and say, "Hey, I'm going to retrain all my teams." And I'm going to cut everything out for it, felt incremental to compare to what was out there, not revolutionary. And I think in the next 12 to 24 months, you start to see those revolutionary platforms. But do you think in the accounting space, we'll have one to two, like the big ones, and then everyone else? Or because there's so many liars to accounting, we'll have each category that will have their own. I think it's extremely unlikely that the same person is going to win audit and tax. I think the workflows are very, very different. And you know, like we're very focused on tax workflows today. And you know, if you look across the different parts of accounting, I think there will be different solutions that are in that. Long term, though, I do think that like most technology markets, you will see a couple of companies that have disproportionately large market share. Perfect. Thank you. So I'll open this up to the group. I want you to understand. So you guys have, not like CPAs or EAs, you don't have the extensions, but you are building this space. How was that challenge like selling to accounting professionals and building that trust coming in initially? It's been interesting because I think the there's been a lot of trust broken among CPAs between CPAs and vendors, because there's been a lot of big promises made to the industry and a lot of big promises broken. And so the, what I've, what I've found is I think it's, you know, for, for CPAs, a lot of times it's about building trust, which is just very simply doing what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it, especially with your product delivering on, on that. And a micro format, you know, when you're selling to, to CPAs, you know, when you, when you say you're going to deliver some sort of feature or, you know, actually following through on that. And I think the bar has been set pretty low in terms of like the standard for like just just listening is more than a lot of the legacy players do. So making them feel heard and then earning that trust through doing what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it has been big for us. So something that's interesting, accounting traditionally has never been a large enough market to invest VC dollars into, which is I think a unique interesting dynamic that I've been thinking a lot about you needed the dance of the world. So Dan has built his, trust is a premier tech tool in the, in the, in the industry, and he's built it off the back of his capital. It's completely bootstrapped. And that's insane. Right. And that's you needed high quality founders that are willing to build bootstrapped businesses in the accounting industry. Because for a couple of reasons, VCs accountants traditionally are slow to buy. You're also not, you know, you're not taking on something like blaze read imagining how like we never have the ability to like go take on TR or take on these massive, massive entities. And with this, this new wave of AI you, you're allowing people like myself who can be really, really lean and we're only focused on the accounting industry. I know Dan has built an amazing business focusing on the kind of industry blazes time. tackling a massive, massive problem. For me, client intelligence, communication intelligence, very, very powerful, but also very, very, it is a niche within a niche, right? We are four accounting firms and not just accounting firms, we're four accounting firms that only service, like talk to their clients. If you're a complete compliance shop, trust can crush it for you, but you have no use for paying. If you're not talking to your clients, there's no reason to use us. And so when I think about building for the industry, what's happened is because of AI and because of these markets, allowing people like myself to come in and be pretty lean and handle really niche issues in the industry, the market has actually responded. I would say in a very, very untraditional way. I mean, Dan, you've been doing, how long have you been building trust now? A little over four years now. So you've seen the, I mean, four years ago, knocking and counts as door was like, who are you? No, I'm not interested, is that fair? 100%. Yeah, and it's been amazing to see, I mean, when I first, I mentioned that, you know, accountants didn't get a lot of love. And when I first started, there was almost, there was very little in the space, very little happening. And there's been this Cambrian explosion over the last few years of all these AI companies serving the space with VC money, taking a great interest in what's going on here. But I think it's because first, you don't need, like, accountants are willing to buy now. Like before, you would have to be in the market for three to four years to do anything. And accountants still, there's hesitancy, and rightfully so, you're dealing with, you know, Blaze mentioned LaGoura. There's no, there's no Harvey, there's no LaGoura, there's no, truly yet, now there's a lot of money getting spent to build those things, right? But traditionally, there hasn't been, because it required a lot of trust and a lot of exactness. So this is, as in, since we're talking to accountants and the people listening to this podcast, there has never been a time where there's been more energy, time and money getting built for accounting firms. Ever, in the history of mankind, it's insane. The amount of founders that are popping up and saying, I can solve the super neat issue for an accounting firm that has never been thought about, that accountants like being their head across, you know, on the table every single day, they have to go in and click 30 times just to pull one report. Or they have to, I mean, Missouri does a great job of going through and like, oh, how do I, going in research? I mean, you have, historically there's books of, you know, textbooks of things. Let me tell you, as a college dropout, I can't tell you how I've opened, maybe this many college textbooks. That's less than 10 for those that are, if this is just audio. So this is such an exciting time to be in the industry, to be building tech for this industry, for being an accountant in this industry. You have really, really capable people that traditionally would have said, I'm okay, Dan has built an amazing product and has grinded more than people can even understand what he's been able to do by building a product in this industry before the unlock. And it's amazing. And now he's reaping the rewards of it. But now he's, he opened the path for people, you know, schmucks like myself that come in and be able to participate. So I don't know even know that answers your question. - Adding on to a cam and saying, I think there's like a confluence of forces that are going on right now as well that I think not super well understood by everyone is that like, you've got AI, which is just good at these things. But you've also got, there was no private equity in the accounting space before November 2021. And so traditionally you've had these partnerships where if they bought technology that was taking you out of a partner's wages. And so there's been this huge influx of private equity money that's come into this industry. And that's also with the coupling of AI, driving a lot of applying behavior that is happening in this industry. And also the investment capital that's coming in with those tailwinds behind it. - What's interesting is I'll add, you know, piggyback on that to say that even the firms that aren't taking PE investment are being heavily influenced watching these firms that have been taking PE investment. And PE is coming in and you know, changing the way these firms operate and other firms are taking notice and saying, is there a reason we aren't operating our business that way? And so yeah, it's affecting the industry in kind of a, wow, exponential effect. - Okay, so the other part is like for blades. Like if you were a VC, does accounting provide the same level of returns for a VC, as like the other verticals would in terms of like the market? - I think historically it has been more challenging just because it was when the cloud came along or when mobile came along, which were the two sort of big platform shifts that we saw before AI, it didn't drastically change the product experience for this underlying consumer, right? You know, 'cause they're mostly using tax engines and whether it moved to the cloud or it didn't, it didn't drastically change how they did their work and it didn't drastically speed up how long it took them to do things. - AI is very different. Well like it can drastically change those workflows and it can deliver ROI's that are much higher than just moving that software to the cloud could deliver. And for certain things, moving to the cloud delivered massive ROI's. But in this particular industry, it wasn't the same. - And so I think that the lack of switching and buying behavior historically as meant that that was hard, but also AI has an opportunity to just have huge ROI's of instead of offshoring, you could do something like AI. And so if you can get a 24 hours a day, seven day a week, always on offshoring resource in the form of AI, that you can have just a much, much bigger market and a much, much bigger outcome in what we had seen historically. And so I think that the interest here is very high because people think the outcomes could be a lot bigger and the product quality and things that can be delivered and much, much better. - And then as you were like initially, so let's say four years ago when you were talking to these like firms, you were like explaining to them, okay, why you should adopt technology? How did that change for four years ago to now? And like how, what is your pitch even changed when you go into a new firm that just wants to like start adopting technology and they don't even know where to start? - Yeah, I would say the main change is that when we first, we kind of started building a really special moment in time at the end of 2022, chat GPT had just come out and LLMs were still, you know, nobody really knew what we had yet where they were just starting to discover that. And we had the luxury of being able to build our product AI first, right? And when I say AI, I mean like this new modern LLM kind of paradigm and so when we started building, it was still taboo to build, you know, these things were and rightfully so because they were very much insecure, right? They were, everything was feeding back into the models and so, but, you know, we started building with these paradigms back when it was still taboo 'cause we didn't have users yet back in 2022. And so just a couple of users and so, I would say the big difference is the attitude towards AI. It's shifted from this very much skeptical and leery of AI as being, you know, a huge security threat, a big unknown to now boards and, you know, committees, technology committees and all this, there's an expectation they're asking, what are you doing with AI? Everybody is asking the question, how do I practically apply AI in my firm so that it actually brings ROI? So it actually makes impact, right? And so there's this imperative, there's this mandate that is there now that everybody's asking this question. It's night and day from back in 2023 when we first started selling and, you know, we, you know, did not behooves us to tell everyone, we did not lead with, yeah, we're using LLMs under the hood to do all this document processing, right? And so that's been probably the biggest shift that I've seen. - Interesting. And now, and you guys also started with down market and like outside of the top 500 and now we're like in the top 500 too and like some of the big firms, like how does that colonization change, how does it be implemented? Do you think the smaller firms are moving faster? They're implementing a lot more AI faster and it's giving them the same advantage as the bigger firms. - They are certainly different. I would say in terms of speed, I've actually been pleasantly surprised as we've been working with top 100 firms, you know, some of the largest firms that there's, as I mentioned, there's these mandates coming from, you know, whether that if they're publicly traded, you know, coming from investors, coming from, you know, the partners coming from their boards saying that you need to, you need to apply the, you know, you figure out how to get AI in here and working for us. And so I've actually been pleasantly surprised to find that I think the industry, the zeitgeist right now is very much forward-thinking, even at the highest levels. And so, you know, while a large firm is never going to move as fast as a smaller firm, you know, be able to make decisions at the same speed, I would say it, you know, they haven't been lagging too far behind, you know, the smaller firms, so. - What's the question for like on two of you? Like if you could only focus on one problem right now, or the next like six or 12 ones, or for the products that you're building, what would it be and why would that be the problem that you're trying to solve? - For me, it would be 100% accuracy and old document processing. No one has really gotten close to that across all of the range of documents that can potentially come into an accountings. People have gotten close on certain documents. People have gotten close. They've gotten all the way there on some documents. But being able to go to 100% on everything, I've always believed the like hobby in the gore of this industry will be when you can draw any document at all in, and they process perfectly through to a tax engine. You never have to worry or check them. That's going to be the biggest unlock in times savings for accounts. And that's when I think a product is going to go smooth on this industry. - Helping firms thrive more revenue is our focus. How can we find upsell and across the opportunities in the conversations that they're having with their clients? world of advisory. There's a lot of things that can be done. And some things are known, some things are unknown. And when I say unknown, I'm unknown to the firm. You know, maybe they don't understand how to stand up a salt practice or they understand how to offer different types of quote advisory products or advisory services to their clients. And we're just going to be pretty focused on helping you drive as much revenues. For us, we're kind of entering phase two of our development. Phase one was all about freeing, freeing accountants from that compliance workload, right? And actually, you know, partnership, for instance, with, with Byron has, is a part of that, right? Free, first we have to free them from the compliance. We can't just say go do more advisory work, right? Because they're drowning in the compliance work, drowning in the tedium. That's phase one. And now that we've successfully matured a product that is making freeing up in insane amounts of time for these firms, now the question is, what do we do at that time? And we all know that the answer, well, you know, the industry, I think, is embraced the idea of that we need to be filling that time. Not with more 1040s and more compliance work, but with more advisory. We need to fundamentally shift the model, fundamentally shift how we're investing our time. And that's where our partnerships with like Bizarre, right? Our partnerships with Ping, partnerships with Kinsugi. That's where these are coming in. And phase two for us is about, we can't just, you know, again, be hand wavy about it and say, okay, now go now, be free, go do advisory, right? Because there aren't great tools that are helping firms identify those opportunities and execute on those, those new service lines for their clients. And so that's where Bizarre is going to come in. Bizarre is really key, a key partnership for us that we're going to be prioritizing this year. We've been working with Ping. Ping is helping us to unlock, you know, bring in more context and surface those advisory opportunities so that way they know, you know, what things that they can, they can offer to their clients. And so for, you know, in summary phase two for us is about empowering advisory for these firms and making it not just saying, you know, in general, you know, I mean, what does advisory even mean, right? Like helping, helping, you know, make those opportunities tangible and actionable for our firms. Yeah. And also a life like, oh, in our space right now, we're not moving into like, we're dominating like one specific word to go to the outside because it's so complicated and so hard to be really good at the thing that you're doing. And then moving into that and doing the partnership, though. I couldn't, I couldn't agree more with that comment. Adam, like, you know, that's why, like, we're not trying to own the client portal piece. We're not trying to own the delivery piece and all these things that Dan and Truss are amazing at. And then like, we need up to date tax research for our products, we partner with the Zorox. We think it's like amazing tax research so we can get through an API or an NCB server and like, trying to partner with other people to make your product better, work within the customers existing tax stack because no one wants you to go in and say, hey, take every single thing out and use my product and you're going to solve their problem. They want you to come and work with the other things that they have. They don't want to rip out their customer client portal again and those sorts of tedious things for the company and the client. As he's like, okay, we'll see under the podcast. So what do you guys like want to talk to tell the listeners any new product features you guys are coming out with, we get excited about and then other conferences you're going to be at and where they work and define you. Well, I will be at Bridget and Gap next week. It's going to be a party. So if anybody's going there, we're going to a number of different conferences and number of different alliance groups. We're just trying to keep up with Truss and their event team is really what we're trying to be there. But yeah, we'll be a digital CPA. We'll be at Connect. Yeah, if it's a conference where there's a countenance meeting or we're excited to be there and how do you do people reach out to paying? You can come engage Connect with me on LinkedIn. It's one of my favorite ways to connect with folks or you can go straight to pingassistant.com. We give everybody a two week free trial. Come test out some of the cool stuff we're building. So where Truss is going to be at the, let's see, April Alliance Forum, the BDO area meetings. We attend most, if not all of those, Boomer Circle Summit, CPA America, National Tax Conference, Digital CPA, PASBA. So we should be at most of the most of the conferences. Look for our team there. If you want to reach out to me, I'm the worst millennial ever. I don't do a ton on social media. I'm taking my notes here from Adam and Camden here, but I'm on LinkedIn as the place that you might find me. My last name is very uniquely spelled. So if you search for Dan, pingass, think OUS and you'll find me there. If you want to go to our website, it's gettruss.io. That's g-e-t-t-r-u-s-s.io. We do want to see the budget for like you market in front of it. It's, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I'm rapidly trying to keep up and go to all the conferences, Dan's going to, but you'll find us at AfriR Alliance, DigitalCBA, CPA practice advisor group. Sure, I'm missing a couple of others in there. And you can find us at usfirein.com, which is U-S-E-B-Y-R-Win. And yeah, we'd love to. You can schedule us on the website. You can look me out from LinkedIn. I'll probably reply you there as well. My name is Blaze Open, as insane as that is, but you're probably pretty easy to find generally. So if you look me out there, I'm happy to connect and plug to me in touch. One last question. Why the name Byron? When you guys picked it, it's a. Byron Bay, my friend Byron Bay. No, if you've ever tried to name a company which you'll, everyone on this call has, you realize how incredibly difficult it is because it's not that hard to come up with a name you like. It's incredibly hard to come up with a name that you'd like and that is available and the websites available, etc, etc, etc, etc. And Byron Bay coffee book on my table. And I was looking at it and I was like, I wonder if we could do it with that. But the reason, as you know, we had a different name before. And we were co-decia. The canopy CEO was on a call with me. And he's like, "Can you share a list of all these companies with 80s? I can't keep any of you guys straight. You're all doing some sort of tax compliance thing." And I was like, "Oh, that's a pretty damning side. If I should probably change the name to something a little better." So it had nothing to do with your last name being, it spelled me a Y-R-N. Nothing. I didn't even think of it at the time and then I was like, "It seems like I named the company after myself." No, that was, if I thought of that, it might have gotten next. I lived in Byron Bay for a little bit there, Blaze, so. Now you understand, right? If you've been there, you're like, it's one of the nicest places in the world. It's legit. It's very legit. Thank you so much, guys, for coming on to the podcast. I really enjoyed talking with you guys. And as always, thank you to the audience for listening on this. You can catch them on their websites. And also the many conversations we'll all be at. Thank you so much. Have a good day.