Why A Successful Rapper Confessed To Murder 17 Years Later

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more information rep number one zero zero zero four i had a gun i was riding around on a bike i thought maybe i was gonna get a jackpot i was just trying to scare him and i just shot and that's when he fell and then i looked back he was on the ground when i signed the bad boy i kind of was at the point where it was like okay move on as time went on it was haunting me you know that should be bothering me man i might i might you know turn myself in for that man i needed help i used the justice system for my benefit in december of two thousand and ten a man walked into a new york city police precinct and confessed to a murder that he'd committed in harlem back in 1993 that man's name was g depp a best-selling rapper under sean diddy combs's record label bad boy entertainment today i sit down with g depp to hear his life story of how he went from small-time crack dealer to a successful rapper on the biggest music label in the world at the time and why after getting away with a murder did he decide to turn himself in 17 years later and for a bonus episode with depp where he tells wild prison stories and yes what it's actually like working for diddy head over to patreon.com slash the connect show and of course don't forget to subscribe to the channel so that you never miss an episode ladies and gentlemen this man and his story are a part of hip-hop history it's g depp right here on the connect with johnny mitchell you it seems like a lot of the dudes that caught bodies from new york during the crack era like yourself it seems like a lot of those guys got out yeah you know because you they had the indeterminate you know 15 to life 20 to life and new york obviously as things started to thaw out and right they realized this was a phenomena the crack era these were 16 17 year olds right you know it's they're completely different people and they're not the same people they're not the same people now they're grown men that's what i think happened too yeah yeah a lot because back then you know like you know how it was yeah it was just everybody come up but everybody was everybody had a body yeah yeah yeah that's a fact it was like it was a whole while it was a wild wild west out here man literally you know i mean that and yeah this is the wild wild west literally i like i like texas though man the vibe of it is kind of like you know it reminds me almost kind of like new york in a funny way well texas is the new york of the south in that these people think they're just the best yeah you know the new york attitude yeah nobody can feel it though you can feel it you know it's cool yeah it is what it is but i understand the new york attitude because that really is the best city in the world so you can have a little bit of ego but come on cowboys all right i get it i get you know i i would i would i would probably feel kind of kind of on a you know a high horse for the lack of a better word if i lived in texas too though you know it's such a it's such an iconic place you know what i mean houston yeah houston just saying texas you know you know you think about you know i was when i woke up this morning i was looking out the window all i thought about was like the alamo and shit like that you know what i'm saying like this is a historic place too though totally you know what i'm saying so it's like totally you know yeah it's its own universe yeah like you know so you know i could i get it yeah g-dep it's kind of surreal sitting across from you all my people from the early 2000s i all i told them you were coming on and they all were like oh good for you oh that's yeah from the bad boy era and uh the special delivery i mean you were really like popping ah man thanks man those are the days man and what's interesting is i looked into you more and it's like you're not just the bad boy era like you're a real artist you you were putting in work and putting out you've put out a lot of music i appreciate it yeah i love it i love you know i'm a hip-hop fan you know so it's like i just love to you know make music like you know what i mean like i i love the art the art of it you know yeah so you go back well tell us how you grew up where you grew up and when you started rapping okay um well i grew up i grew up in uh you know what i mean um you know i live i i had a uh i grew up in a single parent household you know where do you come from harlem um i grew up i grew up on the on the east side of of harlem what they call spanish harlem now you know what i mean but i i grew up you know first i was living in like what they call now washington heights up in uh uh on on broadway 160 excuse me on amsterdam 164th so so i grew up like kind of on the west side of harlem you know what i mean and um you know single mom she was young when she had me she was about 19 18 you know what i mean so like you know she she was young listening to music and you know she was into the young culture and I was just watching her you know what i mean so like you know as i you know as i grew up I just was into music into you know into what was you know hot what was the the you know yeah you grew up in the the best era of rap with hip-hop was exploding out of New York yeah and then also that that um that R&B era where you know like you know the Luther Vandross is in the new additions and you know what I'm saying that all of those sensations were out menudo and all you know it was a lot of like sensations in the 80s still like coming out of that 70s 60s you know b-bop uh Vibe you know the temptations and like songwriting was still a big thing you had Michael Jackson you know what I'm saying so like I came from like that whole era of like music that was still quality you know so you know I just I just I think it just you know I just kind of like uh it just like rubbed off on me right so were you in the streets or first or were you rapping first and then you got into the streets or was it kind of um both at the same time um I mean I growing up in Harlem man it's like you forced to to be like as soon as you walk outside you just hit your street guy you know what I mean like I was I was you know from a young age like we were just little little men like you know what I mean just go yeah come out come back in the house when the lights come on yeah you know as soon as the lights came on outside the street lights you know it was time to go upstairs because it was a whole nother life after that you know that's when you start hearing the gunshots you know what I mean so it was like retreat you know what I mean wild yeah it was it was every day every day it was just like you know oh the lights came on y'all everybody just starts you know disappearing y'all see you later you know yeah 164th and Broadway I've been up there yeah it was rough that was this that was the Copping spot yeah that's where you go get a wholesale package yeah be on your way but it wasn't like that when I grew up when I grew up it was kind of more it was still like black you know not to not to you know be racial about it but it was kind of um you know now you know as time went on you know Dominicans moved in that area so you know they brought what they were dealing with there you know and that's what most people know you know what I mean but when I when I was growing up it was that wasn't the neighborhood it was just you know still mostly black people there I mean so this is wild that I'm talking to you the last time that I heard about you I had just got locked up on my case back in 2010 I was in the county jail in Portland Oregon I flipped open the source you know how when you're in jail some magazines come through and you're trading soups to get your hands on for a day so I'm flipping through it and I boom one of the first visits g-dep walked into a precinct in Uptown Harlem and confessed to a murder that he had done 10 12 15 years before and I was just like wow dude is washed but this is crazy he must have lost his mind and we're talking now a week after Kifi D is convicted of conspiring to kill Tupac and that whole thing got started with him basically confessing but on camera right sheesh yeah I mean a little different yeah but uh it's I should say You know what I mean? Because, you know, it's like, you know, if you didn't mean to, like, confess, it's kind of wild. You know what I mean? No, you confessed for, well, you're about to tell us, and we'll get there. But it's just wild how all this stuff from the 90s, you know, including the Diddy stuff that happened last year, a couple of years ago. It's wild how that era is so long ago, but now it's kind of coming, it's coming home to roost. Yeah. Nobody gets away with anything, even if you do get away with it. Right. Yeah, I'm a prime example of that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So talk about the rapping. Like, how did you get started? Because you were rapping long before, you know, Puff Daddy, who was known back then, found you. So talk about how that kind of progressed and how you built up your chops. I mean, well, you know, like I said, I'm just a fan. I was a fan of hip-hop. You know, I'm still a fan of hip-hop. You know, I just, like, listen to the. You know, the golden era of hip-hop. You know, EPMD, Big Daddy King, you know, Rakim, KRS-One, you know, all of that. Big L? Yeah, Big L. But this is like, you know, before. Big L was probably listening to these guys as well. For sure. So I was, you know, talking about 84, 85, you know, Soul Sonic Force, you know, and all of this stuff, you know, first dropped. And, you know, like I said, like, I was just into music because of, you know, how my mom. My mom's lived and, you know, she was young still, throwing little house parties and I'm just the little kid running around in the house party, you know what I mean? And, you know, so I just started, you know, one day, I'll never forget, I was watching Video Music Box and EPMD, You Guys To Chill, came on. And I just, man, it just mesmerized me. I'm just like, you know, the digger smack, you smack me and I'll smack you back. And I'm just like, I'm like, whoa. I'm like, how? Doing that. Like, you know, I was like, wow. Like, it was like magic. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how they were putting the words together and they were just, you know, something just clicked. Like, and I was like, wow. And I was like, yo, you know, I'll never forget that day. I was like, I'm going to be a rapper. I was like, yo. I said, man, I'm going to start. And I, like, kind of sat there. It was nighttime because I used to, like, tape the stuff while I was at school. And then when I came home, I would watch the tape. You know, how you could time. You had a little time on your VCR. So I figured out how to tape the video music box at, like, 3.30. You know, it would tape for an hour. And then I would come in, you know, do my thing and then watch it at night before I went to sleep. So I sat there in the dark. I tried to write a little rhyme real quick. You know, it was something crazy. And then, you know, that's how it started. You know, and then from there, I just, you know, would try to write. Just, you know, keep practicing. Did you have a crew? Nah, I didn't have a crew. I was down with a breakdancing crew, though, at one point. You know what I'm saying? I was nice with it. I had the little up rock. All of that. And then I'd do my little backspin. And, you know, I was the backspin guy. Go. Right. You weren't spinning on your head. Nah, I wasn't. You could hit the back. Yeah, I could hit the back. It was pretty dope. Yeah, yeah. The head, I wasn't really nice. I wasn't really nice with it. Like, windmills, I was good at that. But I was the backspin guy. You know? I would come and do my little backspin. And then, you know what I'm saying? So I was down with them. You know, I had a little crew when I lived in the Bronx. But I didn't have a writing crew, though. Like, I didn't have, like, a. I did start a little, what you call it, a group, a rap group with my man. And my man, that's how I actually got my name. A dude named Kimo Saibama. Eddie. Eddie is my man. Eddie. Eddie Mabel. One day we were at school, and I was like, yo. You know, I was beating on the desk. And then he was like, yo, you rhyme? I was like, yeah, man, I'm nice. I'm, like, just wilding. He was like, we're in me, too. So he started rhyming. And then, you know, I was like, wow, man, you dope. Like, he had, like, this storytelling kind of rap, you know? And then he was like, yo, we should start a group. And I was like, bet. You know? And he was like, so he was like, what are we going to name our group? And I was like, let's try. Let's go for, like, let's do, like, the Cowboys and Indians. Like, let's try to be, like, a Cowboy and Indian kind of. Like, that just came to my mind. Like, yo, let's be a Cowboy and Indian group. Like, you know? And he was like, I bet. I'm going to be Kimo Saibama. And I was like, all right. And I was like, I'm going to be the deputy. Which is? I don't know why I thought as a young age, my young mind associated the deputy with a Cowboy. So I'm like, all right, the deputy. And then he was like, all right. And then I was like, but I'm going to be the general deputy. And he was like, oh, okay, okay. And so I was the general deputy for about three hours. Right? And then when I wrote it down, I saw that it said, you know, GDAP. And I was like, nah, I'm going to shorten it because it seemed long. His name was kind of long, too. I was like, I'm going to be GDAP. And it stuck. And it just stuck. And how old were you? I was probably 12. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you put out mixtapes or, like, full albums before Bad Boy? Nah, we just did, like, singles and stuff like that. I was signed to. Like, a management company, JFK Entertainment, JFK Management. JFK Entertainment, I'm sorry. And, you know, so, you know, he used to, like, put out music. Like, he was, you know, he had an entrepreneurial spirit. Like, he was like, yo, we could press up music. You know, this was the 90s. You know, he used to be like, yo, we could press up music and just take them over. Take them over to Tape Kings and have them sell them on consignment and things like that. So that's what we was doing. We was just pressing up singles and, you know, putting our money together, going to the studio, and that's what we was doing, taking them to the radio. Traditional, listen to my demo stuff, you know? Yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, you know, running into record labels. Yo, look, yo, look, you know, listen to my stuff. Yeah. Stuff like that, you know what I mean? But a lot of people got on. Hell yeah, hell yeah. We could have got on that way, but it didn't happen that. It didn't happen for us that way. Right. We went to a few execs. They were like, you know, yeah, keep working. Yeah. One of those things. Okay, so a whole theme, a whole underlying theme in your story is drugs, drug abuse. When did you talk about that? Like, you know, most people don't know that you had, like, a pretty wicked habit by the end. Were you selling drugs? Or was. Was it just, like, a thing? You were smoking weed, and that progressed into, you know, harder shit? Well, yeah, yeah. That was, like, my earlier years when I dropped out of college. And, you know, I had an early, early, you know, drug dealing. I mean, drugs was kind of always, you know, a part of, like, my life. Like, you know what I'm saying? Not, you know, sometimes not directly, but inadvertently. Like, you know, I grew up in the crack era. You know, so it was, like, you know, like, you know, I had to watch family members, you know, you know, the dope era. You know, my aunt, you know, she was, you know, God rest her soul, she was, you know, she was a heroin addict when I was young. So I watched that, you know, firsthand, you know, in the house with her, you know. You know, then, you know, going into the mid-80s, you know, you know, my mom, she went through her thing, you know, with the coke. Stuff like that. But, you know, she, you know, she, she, um, she, she had a minor, a minor stint with it. But I, you know, I'm young, as a, as a young kid. That's why you gotta watch what you do around young kids, because you, people think that little kids don't know what's going on. Like, it was one of those things which, you know, she thought I was just so young that I didn't observe what was happening, you know? But she, you know, she cleaned herself up and, you know, it was, it was one of those things that it came and went. But I always was around. around drug use and drug selling. I had older cousins that was into selling drugs and things like that, so I knew about selling drugs at an early age. I sold drugs at an early age as well, but it was a quick little stint. When I was in the eighth grade, I sold some drugs and kept it moving, you know what I mean? So fast forward to the '90s, I was out there slinging and banging. I dropped out of college in '93. Yeah, '93? Yeah. And I started, I just dove in, man. Hustling? Yeah. I was selling coke crack at first, you know what I mean? And then- Yeah. And then- Yeah. And then- And then I went and figured out I could buy my own coke and chop it up and bag it up. I started selling coke. In the projects? Yeah. Okay. And you're on the west side now. You're in Spanish Harlem? No. Yeah, I'm on the east side. The east side. Right, right. Yeah, the Spanish Harlem. I've been there. So, you know, so, you know, and then, you know, the drug, the drug, the drug use, well, the hard drug use, because I was, you know, a super weed head, you know what I mean? And, you know, everything else that was out there, you know, we were just young, masculine, poppin'. Really? Yeah, we was out there, you know. It's like a hippie drug. Yeah, because we were, the neighborhood I was from was notoriously famous for just drugs, you know what I'm saying? So, like, you could come there, you can get anything, you know what I mean? So, you know, dudes were selling tabs, you know, tabs was, that's what they used to call them at the time. Acid? Yeah, it was little, like, paper, little paper tabs, and so that was big in my neighborhood, you know, as well. So, we was, we had super access to that. You know, we were young, yo, let me get two of those, you know, we'd go pop 'em, trippin', like, you know what I'm saying? Little black kids running around my home on acid. Yeah, trippin'. Like, you know. That's the first time I've ever heard of that. I thought it was hippies on college campuses. Oh, hell no. We was out there going crazy, floor, floor, the floor's going, waving up and down. Pop-lockin'. Yeah, like, we like, oh my, do you see that, 'cause I, do you see that? I see it, do you see it? Yeah. But, yeah, so, we was like, you know. Yeah. So, we was out there just, just wiling, you know. And, you know, as time progressed, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, the drug use, you know, you know, it, it, it, it was only, it was only one, you know, two ways you can go with that. You can either stop or you just kept going, you know what I mean? Well, as a drug dealer, though, I, you know, back then it was really in the '90s, and even when I grew up in the 2000s, it was really taboo for. Yeah. for inner-city kids to use coke and crack. Yeah. Because they just saw what it did to their parents. Right. So, that was like, you would be shunned if they found out you were smoking crack. Yeah. Like, you weren't finished. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's, that's how it was in my neighborhood, too. Like, you know, you, that's what I mean, like, with the drug use, it was only two ways to go. Yeah. So, like, we, you know, as we were getting older, you started seeing, like, who was who. Like, hey, he's smoking. This, he's getting money. Right. So, like, I was, you know, I was this guy. You were getting money. Yeah, I was getting money. So, it was like, you know, but once, once, you know, I got a little, you know, once I got signed, you know, where I wasn't out there hustling. Right. I kind of, you know, I started turning to the, the, the PCP, you know, to kind of just, you know, check out. And that's, that's kind of how I, I progressed into, you know, that, that, that drug. Today's episode is sponsored by Kalshi. We make predictions every single day about politics, pop culture, the economy, and the biggest stories making headlines. Well, Kalshi, America's number one predictions market platform, lets you trade those predictions in a live market. Here's one right now. Will the Democrats hold the House in the 2026 midterms? Probably. That contract is currently trading at 48%. Yeah. Meaning a $100 trade would pay you out $208 if they hold the House. Those are pretty good odds actually at 48%. I think you got the advantage right there. You double up your money. 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Real drug dealers were never like, I'm about to be a rapper. Yeah, right. I'm about to be a kingpin. Why? Right. Exactly. I don't need money. I don't need to do that. I'd spend $100,000 in a day. Yeah. Why would I? So, yeah. But did you, when you were selling, when you had your Coke going, did you still have intentions to become a rapper? Yeah. That's the whole thing. The whole time I was in the street, I had aspirations to rhyme. I used to use my money to go to the studio. Me and my bro, we would put our money together, make our tapes. That was how I kind of got. You know, into dealing with the manager guy, because I was, you know, known for rapping. Right. You know? And then dudes was like, "Yo, this guy, you know, he's pretty. " My other man, Raw Beans, was dealing with him, and he was like, "Yo, I got my other man. He's really dedicated." You know? So I wind up signing with him. Okay. You know? But that's what I was doing. I was hustling. You know, that kind of had like an ends to a mean. So that was kind of what I was doing. This episode is brought to you by TXU Energy. For the first time ever, Texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings. It's called Free Nights and Cool Summer. You get free nights every night, all year long, plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first of its kind plan, created for how Texans actually use energy. Discover how much more you could save with Free Nights and Cool Summer. TXU Energy. Energy for everything. Visit TXU.com/TXU. For more information, rep number 1-0-0-0-4. Did you catch a case at all? Like as a youth selling drugs? Did I not catch a case? Man, that's what I was doing, man. It's like I had, like I noticed that now, you know, in my life, you know, with people, when I see people getting arrested, like kind of repeatedly, like I kind of tell them, like, yo, you got to watch that because that used to happen to me. Like, I would get arrested, you know, small things, and it would always be like a warning that I wouldn't heed, you know what I mean? And I would wind up getting like a real, like kind of, like big, you know what I mean? So, that's how my kind of, my career, drug dealing career, so to speak, went. Like, I was just catching case after case after case, then I wound up just doing time, you know what I mean? Before Bad Boy? Yeah. Okay. Before Bad Boy, you figure, '96, and it's wild that we're talking about it because when Tupac got killed, I was incarcerated. I was in shock. I was in the shock program. And I'll never forget the DI that we had. He was a hard dude, and like we kind of didn't mess with him. Like, we was like, nah, not him, you know what I mean? And like one day, he like just came in the dorm. He was like, everybody, you know what I mean? He was like, everybody gather around for a minute. And so, we just like, he usually don't like, you know, conversate with us. Like, he was kind of real, like, you know, to the book, by the book. And then he was like, look, he was like, I know you guys listen to, you know, your rap and stuff like that. He said, they just killed your boy Tupac. And I just wanted to tell you, because we couldn't look, we couldn't watch videos or look at no, you know, listen to any music or anything. So, we didn't know what was going on out there. But he told us about it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, man. And when I came home, you know, that was, that was, that's what kind of led to the bad boy situation, you know? That must have been crazy. Were you a fan of Tupac? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Pac was, he was, he was just the guy, man, you know? For sure. Yeah. For sure. It was hell. Yeah. So, you finished Shock. Shock was the drug program. So, if you catch a, if you catch a long bid for selling drugs, you could take this six-month shot. Yeah. And if you finished it, they, they cut out the rest of your sentence. Yeah. Right. I caught a, I caught a, catching all of those cases, I caught a two to six. I had caught, I caught a fel, a felony first. What it was, was I got arrested selling crack, like, my first little case in about, like, '94. Me and, me and the gentleman, we was, we was selling crack in another area. We got caught. I got caught. We all got kind of caught because they was, they was watching me from, well, I didn't come to find out, they was on the roof, just watching us. So we all went down, you know what I mean? Whoever was running the customers, whoever was selling, you know what I mean? So we all went down. We, I got a buying bust. They wind up getting, giving me a, a, a Y.O. because that was my first offense. So I got a, I got a Y.O. for that. And so they, the, the stipulation was I couldn't get any, get in anymore trouble for five years. So I was on probation, right? So fast forward to '95, you know, I'm still isolated, you know? Now I'm in another area. I'm in my neighborhood now. I figured out that I could buy some Coke and get my own stuff. So I figured that out. So now I'm hustling in the neighborhood. How much Coke were you picking up? Not a lot. The most I was doing, an eighth. 60 grams or something? 62 grams? 64, 62. Two ounces here and there. I was just hustling, making my money, buying my little gear, keeping my weed, you know, shit like that. So, you know, but like I said, my whole aspiration was to rap. So to me, it was just a side thing. It was just something that I needed money. I didn't have a job. So that's what I did for money. So, you know, I wind up catching a case. Oh, so I heard. I got a quarter sale, right? So the Y.O. is off the table now. They was like, yo, look. We told, you know, that was a stipulation. So now you're going to have to do a one and a half to three. So they said, all right, come back. Come back at a certain time and we're going to sentence you. Turn yourself in. Yeah, the one and a half to three. So I said, okay, bet. So I comes, I catches another case while they tell me to come back, right? So now this is three felonies now. So now I got three felonies, right? And I forgot how they, I think they actually let me out again. They was like, yo, look, come back in to get sentenced because now you got these three felonies. And, you know, this was how the 90s was. R.O.R. And I used to be, like, I couldn't believe they let me go. I was like, really? They was like, look, okay, we know you got three felonies. This place is packed. Yeah, hundreds of you a day. Yeah, they was like, come back. And you do your sentence and you come back and then, you know, that's that. You're probably going to get a, they said a two to four now. They said you're going to get a two to four. And so I'm like, damn, you know what I mean? So I go home. And then, you know, so now I'm home. I'm trying to, like, remember how the hell did I get out that second time. But anyway. You can tell you're a real criminal. You know why? Because real criminals don't remember all the tickets they caught. They don't remember all the fucking beefs. Like, yeah, it was a lot of them. Yeah, like, I don't know. I know, I know. It's like having a job resume. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I did that at one point. But, man, so, like, I came home. And so I know I came home and I was supposed to turn myself in. I went and so that was what happened. That's what happened. So when they said, when they gave me the second time when I came, when I got locked up. And they said, yo, look, you got three felonies now. Go home and turn yourself in at this time. You probably do a two to four, this, such and such, right? So I comes back in. Oh, yeah, that was what happened. The second time when I first. Got the wire when they told me to come in, right? I come, I go, I go back. I boofed the weed, swallowed some weed, all this. Because I know I'm going in, right? I get there and they say, yo, we can't, we can't take you today. I said, what? I said, I said, oh, bet. So I go back home. I'll never forget that. I was like, you can't take me. I remember saying goodbye. Goodbye to the neighborhood. Like I looked, I was like, yo, you know, I'm like, damn, I couldn't believe I was actually going to turn myself in. That was the first, first thing, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, damn, I remember what I had on and all that. I had the purple North face on and, um, and I go down there and they say, yo, not today. So I was like, well, I got all this weed, you know, I got balloons, I got, yeah. So that's what I figured out. I did that wrong. Cause I, I, I didn't double them. Right. That was it. Right. So I wind up catching another case. So now I got four felonies. You know, it might not sound right right now, but that was really what happened. I wind up getting four felonies. Insane. And then that's what made you go do shock. Right. And that's when, right. And that's when he was like, yo, you know, I was in there. So they didn't let me go after that. And then it was like, yo, you know, I was just trying to get shocked. I was like, yo, look, I gotta, I gotta, um, you know, I gotta, uh, uh, you know, I kept, you know, I kept asking all of the, the jailhouse lawyers. Yo, you think I'm gonna get shot? Yo, you think, you know, they wind up giving me a shot. Yeah. And so I had a two to six, they sentenced me to two to six. Yeah. But you got out. Yeah, I did like 11 months. Okay. All together. I got locked up in April of 96 and I came home in, uh, and damn, I did less than nine, 11 months. I came home in January. So that's it. Eight months. Damn. What a good deal. Yeah. Good time to be a drug dealer back then. Yeah, that's a fact. If you didn't have 500 keys. Yeah, they was like, you know. We can't take you today. We're all full. We're already, it was like a club. Yeah, they was like, nah, not today. I was like, not today. Yeah, they sent me home. That was crazy. I came back to my girl. She was like, what happened? I was like, nothing happened. I beat it, babe. I was like, we hit, we made it, babe. So did you come home from shock, like determined? You were like, I'm really going to get on with this rap stuff? Did it really kind of motivate you to stay out of the streets? Tell us how you got down with bad boy after that and how the rapping progressed. Yeah, well, I think it did kind of deter me. You know, when I did come home, I kind of went straight and narrow for about six months, you know? And then I was like, you know, I cracked one cell. And then I cracked another one. I said, yeah, I was just back. That's a while, right? And what really got me focused was I'll never forget this. Every time I see this girl, I call her my hero, right? What happened was I was on a corner, again, the same corner, the same dreaded corner that I caught all of these cases on. Did a bid for and all of that, so I'm on this corner, you know? Makes a sale. You know, the dudes that usually be, you know, up there, they not there. So I'm trying to, like, kind of, like, okay, you know, I know I can make sales when they not around. Like, it's just like, you know, hotcakes, like, okay, yeah. So I'm up there. I'm like, damn, why they not, you know, up here? So, you know, I'm like, yeah. And that's why they weren't up there, because they knew, like, the detectives were around. But me? I'm dumb. I don't know. You know, I just wasn't aware of what was going on. I thought it was just, like, free money. I'm like, damn. I'm like, yo, where everybody at? You know? And so I sell to Undercover, right? And so I'm home. I'm home off the bid. I'm like, so I walks off the corner, and they grab me, you know? They jump out the car, grab me. I'm like, oh, my goodness. All I could think about is the fact that I was there. The fact that I just did a bid. So I'm walking down the block. I mean, I'm walking, like, I'm on the 115th, and I'm walking in the projects down the block, and they jumps out, grab me. And so he has me. He just figures it's done. It's over. You know? He got me by my hoodie. He's, like, talking on walkie-talkie. He got me with one hand, like, he don't know I play Ring of Livia. Like, I play Manhunt. Like, this is. This is where we from. So I'm. So he got me kind of relaxed. I had a black hoodie on, too, right? So he got me. You know? I'm hearing him. Yeah, I got him. I got the perp. Da-da-da. Just all this shit. Bring it one night. So I'm like, yeah. So he's bringing me up the. Back to 115th. Like, you know, so he's, like, kind of just leading me. And he got, like, this real light, this light little grip on me, right? So I get to the. I get to the middle of the street, crossing the street. And I came out the whole hoodie. Boom, boom, boom. So I'm like this. Ah. Ah. Boom. So I'm seeing people on the bus. It was, like, slow motion. 'Cause I'm riding. I ran across the street. I'm looking at the people on the bus. They all like this. And so I'm like. And I jettison the projects. I go in the building. And then, you know, they. Back then, they just had, you know, installed, like, the bells on the. The buzzers on the. Mm-hmm. On the door. So you had the buzz to get in. And so. But they. You know, if you were strong enough, you could pop it. You know, pop. And it would. And it would. The door would open. So I knew the building to go to. I ran to it. Pop the door. Pop. Goes in. You know, and I'm. It's amazing, those projects. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm watching them. I'm watching them. As I'm running, you know, I can see it on the. I can see to the avenue. And I see, like, the van, you know, you know, riding. You know, they trying to actually follow me. So they riding down the wrong side. No, they riding down the right side of the street. But I see them. into the building, you know, I get you in the building, boom. There is no way they could have knew like where I went. So I went in the building, boom, popped it. They just kind of like had a idea of the area I went in the project. So they were like kind of circling right there. And so I went in the building, boom, I'm in the, now I'm in the, but you're not out the woods yet though. When you're in the building, it's not my building. You know, I don't live there, you know? So I'm like, okay, I got to knock on somebody's door because they might come in the building. And then if they comb the building, I'm in there. So I'm in the building. So I'm still breathing hard. I've runs up to about the fifth floor. I can't run no more. My knees just gave out. I'm like, oh my goodness. I'm like, yo. So now I'm hiding in the hallways, in the apartments, in the hallways, I'm hiding in there. So I'm just knocking on people's door. I can't even breathe. I'm like, knocking on people's door. Nobody's answering. Knocking on somebody else's door. Nobody's answering. No. And so I'm like, damn. And then I look out the exit. You go to the exit and look out the window and I see them. They outside of the building. I'm going to jail. 'Cause I'm like, all they gonna do is come in the building soon. And so I'm like, I'm going to jail. And so I'm like, yo. And then, and so I'm like, I just kind of like, didn't know what to do at that point. And somebody opened the door. Pop, pop. It was a guy and his sister. He was leaving. He was like, see you later, mama, da, da, da, da, da. And I was like, yo, bro. I said, yo, look, can I stay in your crib real quick? They chasing me. I said, I'll give you everything in my pocket. He was like, all right, bet. Word. And then the girl, it was the girl that actually was like, come on, pops. 'Cause he was like, at first he was like, yo, nah, like, you know what I mean? But she was like, come on. And then she let me in. I gave her like, I had like $100 in my pocket. You know, I gave it to her. I was like, yo, thank you. She was like, yo, she's like, you want some water? I gave her some water, I think a T-shirt. I stayed there for about a half hour. - Did they knock on the door? - Nah, they didn't. But they, I think they were in the building. They think they did figure out to come in the building. And they probably asked a couple of people, you seen anybody in there? You know, they was like, ah. So I stayed in the crib for about, about a half hour. She went downstairs. She was like, yo, she came back up. She was like, there's nobody now that you could go. I was like, for real? She was like, yeah, there's nobody out there no more. I was like, oh, for real? So I leave, goes, I was living in an apartment on Brook Avenue in the Bronx at the time. So I goes like to Madison Avenue somewhere, catch a cab, go home. But then from that point, I was like, yo, this is over. I was so like, you know, you know, I know you can feel where I'm coming from. It was like, yo, I was so grateful that I didn't get locked up that day, that I was like, yo, I got to stop hustling, man. Because I'm about to go to jail again. And then it ain't going to be no two to six. Ain't going to be no shock. So I was like, yo, all right. You know, I kind of just, you know, but I had to make money. So I would just do like small things, make money. And you know, I really wasn't getting no money at that point. But I was just like really into hip hop more. You know, I was like, well, look, this is what you want to do. That's kind of why I dropped out of high school. I was like-- I mean, out of college. I was like, yo, look, I want to rap. That was the excuse I told my mother. She was like, you want to rap, huh? And so, you know, I really got into it. And I wound up recording the actual song that Black Rob heard that made him get, you know, bring me down to bad boy. Today's episode is brought to you by Cloaked. 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And he was like, yo, that Rob, that's my man, Black Goyle. You know, he just signed a bad boy. I was like, what? He said, you probably know him. You've probably seen him. I was like, I don't know, man. And then, so I had a demo tape. And you know, my man Puka Broxy loved the song, Dollar Bill. So he was like, yo, let me hold that, you know? I was like, you know, I was reluctant. I let him hold it. And just me doing it and me doing that, that was where the blessing came. Because one day, he was with Black Rob. And they were playing it all night, apparently. And so like maybe two days or so later, he comes, runs down, to where I'm at. Yo, Black Rob is up the block. He want to meet you. He was like, yo, we was playing that Dollar Bill all night. He's like, that's all he played. That's all he wanted to hear. I was like, why? He was like, yo, he love that shit. He's like, yo, he want to meet you. So he runs up the block. We meet him. And you know, I realized that I didn't know him. You know, because everybody was saying, yo, you know him. This is where he from. Is he from Harlem? Yeah, he's from Harlem. He lived like across the street from me, like literally. I just never-- I haven't seen him before. I just-- I've probably seen him, but didn't realize it was who he was or just didn't register. But when I seen him, I didn't know him. Obviously, I was like, I don't-- you know, I didn't know him. That was my first time meeting him. So it was a good meeting. You know, he was like, yo, Depp. He was like, yo. He said, yo, that Dollar Bill something serious. That's how he used to talk. He said, yo, that's my-- he's like, that Dollar Bill something serious, man. I was like, what? He was like, yeah. He was like, man, I want you to be on my album. I was like, what? He was like, yeah. And he was already signed. Yeah, he was already signed. He already had-- I think he might have had "I Dare You" out at that time. That song, "I Dare You," he had that out. Right. And you know, so he was like, yo, I want you on the album. And I kind of really didn't think he was going to call me, you know what I mean? He took my number, and he called me, though. He was like, yo, look, you ready? I was like, hell yeah, you know? And so that was kind of how-- that was how I got on "Bad Boy." You know, not the recording. You know, I mean, I can't say recording my own stuff didn't get me there, because actually, it did, you know? But not me going to labels and trying to sign and all of that stuff. We did all of that, but we weren't successful with it. But doing that, that's how we got on. So you got on a single on his album. Yeah. Were you on other tracks, too? No, I was just on that. OK. And that's where, obviously, Diddy heard it. Yeah, well, what it was, was when I recorded it that day, the A&Rs were there. And Harv Pierre was there. And he was like, yo, would you want to sign to "Bad Boy?" After I spit the lyric, I mean, the verse, they called me in the room, and they was like, yo, would you want to sign to "Bad Boy?" I was like, let me think about it. Yeah. Word. I said, nothing. $100 cracks? Biggest label, biggest hip hop label in the country. Word up. Like, I don't know. I said, so I went. So I was like, yeah, you know. I said, yeah, man, I was trying to be smooth about it. I was like, yeah, why not? And he was like, yo, how can we make that happen? He's asking me how to make it. I'm like, I don't know. I'm just like, you know, I said, call my manager. My manager, you know, you can talk to him. He said-- so I just picked my phone up. I took my phone out and gave him the phone. I called my manager. I said, yo, Harv Pierre want to talk to you? Gave him the phone. Then they talked, and that was that. That was that. You know, we set up everything, a little meeting. So tell us what that initial contract was, like what a getting signed to a major label like that back in the '90s, what did that look like well i mean they um they the deal was for 70 uh 370 350 or 375 i think it was 350 though 350 g's yeah wow that's up front yeah i didn't get i didn't get the whole 350 though i got i got a third of it so i got i got like a buck and change okay you know what i mean for how many albums it was like for eight albums or something that's wild hell yeah hell yeah was that normal or did they they must have really believed in you yeah i mean that was that was puffy's like kind of standard contract at that time i mean from from from my from my perspective i don't know what the guys got before me you know because from what i see you know i think his contracts got better and better over the years you know what i mean like the new the earlier artists you know kind of had different situations from what i understand what i see but by the time he got to me you know i was just you know i got you know half of my publishing like i got a good deal you know what i'm saying wow yeah you know what i mean because that that's how a lot of artists got raped back in the day yeah because they decided for money upfront money but gave away all their publishing yeah you know what i mean so i got you know my my my manager was was smart you know my manager knew about that stuff he he had dealt with uh big daddy kane at one point he like managed him so he knew like what to look for what to ask for you know oh so when we went and you know negotiated with the with the uh with the with his lawyer we knew to to fight for the publishing it wasn't even about the money you know what i mean so that's you know that's how i wound up getting you know the 50 percent and then so wow that's great what uh what year is that this is 98. okay so biggie is dead yeah biggie passed but they're about to sign oh no i'm sorry the locks had already been signed yeah uh yeah so there's they're popping yeah they still was jumping they had um they had a little kim was out kim was out well you know she wasn't really on bad boy she was um she was like signed to like another oh that's true i think capital or something like a bigger label i'm not sure exactly what label but um you know she was just affiliated with bad boy because of biggie and things like that but she was she was definitely like you know bad boy you know part of the family like she was like you know the queen you know over there you know and um so so so you had um mace was still there foxy brown foxy brown no she she was around but she wasn't signed to battle okay she was i forgot what label she was on as well there were so many people yeah she was like in like jay-z's oh yeah circle like kinda okay so who were the the locks you black rob mace mace who else was on there you had carl thomas at the time shine shine oof yeah shine you had total yeah total was still there you had um sherry dennis she was still there mark curry right you had the what was the gospel lady's name mary j blige no but did he discovered her yeah yeah she used she used to be around guys she was around a lot i'm so i'm sort of sad i can't think of the gospel lady's name man um okay so this is life-changing obviously in 1998 you get a nice piece of change especially back then um but i want to back up because i think i think the murder had already happened correct yeah okay so before we move on can you yeah tell us about what happened that years later you ended up turning yourself in for because this actually happened i think in like 1994 right uh the murder no 93. okay yeah that's wild because this happened like before you were getting arrested for selling little drugs yeah that's why this is so crazy yeah you know like yeah it was like somebody was telling me something like you know what i mean like yeah it's wild you got pinched for all those little small cracks and coke and here you had a cold case right what happened with that you know and then so you know i was young so you know the whole time i used to always be like oh they know oh they coming you know you know i wasn't i wasn't thinking about that at that time you know as far were you a minor well i was i was i had just turned i was 18. okay uh you know what i mean i was gonna turn 19 the next month so i wasn't like a actual minor you know what i mean um so so uh you know yeah so like i had um i caught the i caught the that uh the the killing the shooting had happened because like i said i didn't i didn't even know he had died you know what i mean i know i shot him and um you know so i kind of just went on and i was like you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna kill him you know what i mean i know i shot him and um you know so i kind of just went on and you know so i kind of just went on and you know so i kind of just went on can you talk about the circumstances a little bit if you don't mind yeah no i mean you know it was it was a robbery you know what i mean um you know i um you know i was just like like you know one of them things i had i had a gun i was just out there you know i i don't think my decision making was you know not you know i i know it wasn't at that you know in hindsight you know what i mean it was just like yo let me just rob somebody you know what i mean what were you trying you're trying to get money for what for what right you know just to have it yeah you know i mean it wasn't like i like y'all yo i need this so i need that you know i i had you know i stayed with my grandmas my girl like i had i had somewhere to stay yeah you know it was you know probably it was just it was just like a a a spur of the moment kind of thing like you know what i mean and so i you know i thought maybe i was gonna you know get a jackpot like you know what i mean like he was gonna have like that's probably was my thinking like he was just gonna have so much money you know what i mean so i so i um you know or whoever i robbed it wasn't like i knew he was gonna be there he was just like i said i had a gun i was riding around on a bike you know just looking for him yeah just looking for somebody you know and then he was and he was just standing there this is in your neighborhood yeah where what 115th yeah 114th in lexus uh park he was like under the trestle under the the train then he's just standing there i'm like here we go right here this is pro football is back and so are the predictions trade yours on cal sheet america's number one prediction market platform this sunday it's denver versus los angeles with denver currently trading at 46 to win trade 100 and you could get 209 dollars if they win download cal sheet use code win26 to get 25 dollars when you trade 25 a k l s h i call sheet trade what's next 18 years plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors calci products are not available in all jurisdictions prices values and available markets may differ from those mentioned for more information see calci.com regulatory you know so went up to him i was like yo look let me give me the money you know and you know he was now that i know in hindsight again like he was high you know what i mean so i didn't understand that at the time like i'm like i'm like yo i'm like yo where's the money at you know and then you know he just like just was looking at me like you know so i'm like i was like yo where the money at you know i said you know i didn't i didn't you know he was a man like i didn't want to touch him and all that you know what i'm saying so i'm just like yo i'm like you know come out his pocket but he was so stuck you know that he just was like just looking at me like you know it's i even know what to do you know what i'm saying so i was just like yo i was like you wish that and then he he like tried to like you know i just like panicked like you know what i'm saying and i just i shot fire i kind of just kind of in my mind i was just kind of trying to just like scare him you know what i mean but then when i shot him he didn't he didn't know what i was trying to do you know what i mean but then when i shot him he didn't you know what i mean but then when i shot him he didn't you know what i mean but then when i shot him he didn't you know what i mean i shot him he didn't like fall you know what i mean and then he like kind of tried to come at me again you know what i'm saying i don't mean to laugh but i you know it was like a zombie like movie like you know what i mean like you i don't even want to say no more about that but that that was that was you know that was what it was like he just you know he just kept coming at you know what i'm saying so i just kept firing i just shot i'm like this guy what is he is he real like who is this guy you know what i'm saying crying kid strength yeah so then you know i started you know i just didn't you know and you know when you when you young you know you expect to see blood and you know i'm saying i didn't see nothing like he like i was like even wondering i had to look at the gun like is this a real gun like you know what i'm saying like i'm like damn you know what i'm saying like you know you know because at this point i'm just trying to like stop him like you know what i'm saying and you know so i just i just i just ran i just ran off like you know what kind of gun was it i don't know i don't know it was a 40 40 cal yeah it was a 40 that's a pretty big gun right yeah it was pretty it was pretty big the bullets was it was big yeah and um did you see him drop or did you just run off yeah so I ran off and um and then when I when I ran off you know like I got I got on the bike you know you know after you know I shot him the third time I'm like this guy's just invincible he none of me so let me just let me just get out of here you know since I saw I just um I wouldn't grab the bike if the bike was like right there so I went grabbed it this is all happening like in split seconds I saw I grabbed the bike and then I jump on the bike and like I'm trying to pedal off and um and like he likes swings and I just just miss me boom I remember that like just me pedaling off he missed me boom and that's when he fell hmm you know and then I look back he was on the ground you know but I still didn't think he was like dead for some or I didn't think he was like hurt like for some reason like it was just like I thought I was missing him you know what I mean hmm and then so and so and so like when I when I rolled off you know I look back and then I um and then you know I rolled around the block and then I came around again you know cuz I actually wanted to see what the hell happened I'm saying I'm like what did I just do like you know me so I come I come around and then and then um like like like how the project is like the project spent goes from like 112th Street to 115th so I'm on Park so I come around Park Avenue and I look through the exit and I can look up the block and I see where it happened at and I'm seeing like the cops came immediately hmm like I guess they heard the shots and then they just like was coming so if I wouldn't have got out of there I probably would have been still there you know so so when I comes around the block I look up the block and they already there like and I see a cop like kneeling over him like I guess he was like checking his pulse hmm I like to see all of this you know this was like 112 but you can see you know I mean so I'm just like and I'm looking at and I'm looking at them um you know in front of him and they just on him you know they looking around and he's just like and then that was it for me I was I still got the gun on me I was like oh my goodness and so I just like backed up turned my bike around rode into the building and I never knew what happened after right you know what I mean did you dump the gun yeah I dumped the gun the next day you know what I'm saying I was like I don't want this I don't know what that the heck I just what happened you know and it was weird because the next day when I came out the building I had the same clothes on the same jacket the same bike the cops pulls they they just like just looked at me and just jumped out of their little vehicle you know I was like they grabbed they stopped me it was like you know about you know about a shooting that happened last night I was like nah I was I'm talking about if they would have fell my chest they would have been like let's take this guy take this guy in like you know what I mean because I was like like you know what I mean and they like you know anything about that I was like nah I don't know why would I know about that you know yeah and um yeah so no I it was weird like it was like they just picked me like out of nowhere like you know what I'm saying and so you know that was that and then like that was it you never they never came around after that for questioning never questioned me yeah but all the only thing that I that I was you know you know I was out there hustling so like when I when I did get locked up I always thought that they knew something you know today's episode is proudly sponsored by hymns you guys know hymns by now if you're a fan of the show it is my favorite company on planet Earth it is bringing a hard penis pill to a town near you if performance has been on your radar lately you're not imagining it and guess what you're not alone you're not alone buddy ED is more common than guys talk about the good news getting real treatment is simple and through hymns it's 100 online hymns connects you with a licensed health care provider online giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home no awkward appointments no pharmacy lines just complete a simple online intake and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you if prescribed your treatment ships directly to your door that includes sildenafil also known as generic for Viagra available through hymns at up to 95 less than the brand name version and if that option isn't right for you there are additional treatment options available so you can find what works best for your body it's straightforward transparent and designed to make getting care feel easy and boy is it easy to get simple online access to personalized affordable care for not only ED but hair loss weight loss and so much more visit hymns dot com slash connect that's hymns H I M S dot com slash connect one more time hymns.com slash connect hymns is not available in all 50 states prescription is required see website for details restrictions and important safety information sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra Viagra is a registered trademark of Viatras specialty LLC hymns is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatras did you think there was a chance that while you were locked up they were going to come yeah get you for the for the body yeah oh every time every time I got locked up I was like oh my goodness here we go well what's wild is that I mean you must not have left any prints because if you didn't touch him you didn't leave any DNA yeah because if you had they would have ran the ran your prints when you got locked up for drugs and probably connected it yeah so you know you know I didn't have any I I guess I didn't touch the you know I I guess I loaded the gun right you know what I mean so you know I didn't you know you can get your prints on the show on the shelves and anything you know they never they never you know got at me about it 1993 I think that was the height or maybe it was 92 is when the the murder rate in New York was at the peak but there were so many killings like that yeah senseless most of them yeah a lot of a lot of yeah yeah so you had this secret that and you just kept living your life right it probably felt like a dream a bad dream and and but as you got further away from it yeah you just kind of the bigger went to the back of your back of your mind right yeah well or did it haunt you well more in the beginning it was more like fear getting caught right you know what I mean like yo damn you know I might have to do time you know what I'm saying like the whole thing of you know getting away with something that that you know you were gonna do your you would have to do some real time for you know so I was like wow you know damn you know you know that one of those things I remember when I did the shock program I was thinking that they were gonna like we were talking about earlier they were gonna be like well Mr Coleman you're not going home you know what I'm saying you just just get used to you know you know just you know you know so when I did a I did something similar to shock uh way less intense but you have to do all these like meetings it like you do like you know uh narcotics Anonymous and alcohol and all this stuff oh did they may in shock do they make you like tell on yourself did they make you like basically confess to to all these things that you've done in your past um or ask you to do that like in front of your peers is like a way to take accountability because that's their whole thing is like yeah we take accountability in order to change yeah well that wasn't really shock steam shock shock was like more like a um this kind of like a uh like a positive reinforcement you know what I mean thing more so like they they like it was like more of a conditioning kind of thing like they were we had to run you know what I'm saying it was like more like a like kind of like to to to clear your mind so you know you wouldn't like be it was like more it seemed like it was like more of a person a a a place for people that were on drugs in a way like because they were kind of like you know run you yeah you know feed you so you could get healthy you know it was like they were trying to make you like healthier like you know what I mean and they were and they were and they would like have you in these like these these these classes where you would like kind of learn you know how to out of the positive reinforcement you know just thinking you know what I mean more so like that was with shock shock had like these a lot of these acronyms you know what I mean like these acronyms you know what I mean like me like that was that was more so their thing okay did you tell anybody like any of your friends nah it was certain people that knew about it though that were like out there when it happened and you know they knew you know they came and seen me like yo I was you know I heard about that you know or stuff like that you know what I mean but I didn't tell anybody as time went on I did tell a couple of my friends that you know it was it was you know haunting me you know in years like like I want to say you know approaching the time I was you know turn myself in I told one of my friends I was like yo man remember that remember that thing you know people used to always talk about man you know I should be bothering me man I might I might you know turn myself in for that man but by the time you signed with bad boy this wasn't haunting you the way it did later on right or it um right right when i signed the bad boy i kind of was at the at the level at the point where it was like okay move on you know kind of you know what i mean it's getting further away yeah it was like okay if you know if anything did happen you know this this is you know you know i was i was more like yo you know if something did happen you know this wouldn't be happening you know or just like you know kind of overshadowed what went what happened it kind of started making me kind of forget in a way yeah like just leave it in the past kind of for sure you know i didn't have to worry about i think the fact that i didn't have to hustle anymore kind of made me forget about it and i didn't have to you know worry about police contacting and stuff like that so i was like i didn't think about it too much yeah like i'm out i'm out of the streets kind of out of the out of the woods so so to speak so you know but um you know like you said like you never really you know you never get away with you know something because it's like after a while you know then i have more time to think about it you know what i mean so i was like you know i was like yo you know i started really you know then once i started having kids you know i started kind of weighing things a little bit more i'm like damn you know what if what if what if he had kids or you know what i mean what if you know you know what if you know like you know i was i was living just this life that was to me was you know pretty good you know so it was like yo you know you know christmases will come around you know everything was you know so beautiful you know decked out we got the tree the kids running around yo look you know everything and i started kind of like yo what about this guy like what did he have did he have kids you know i'm pretty sure his family would like him to be at the house you know what i'm saying so it was like it just started it just started becoming like a you know kind of like a just a just just just uh like i was a comparison with everything that i did you know wow yeah that's amazing so he kept showing up in your mind yeah throughout your life yeah yeah it was like it was like yo um you know like i said like it was like kind of just like a a contrast like did he you know anything that i did you know even when i laughed sometime i think he you know my mom would be like do you think he's laughing right now okay so before we move on let's talk about the bad boy years so you signed in 98 um when did you drop your first album with bad boy um the first album was in um i want to say uh 2001. okay and was that your big single was a special delivery right that was the first big one yeah the first no the first big one was let's get it right with with diddy well yeah it was puffy and um and um and black rock and then they had the you know they had the uh the harlem shake that was huge yeah so that's what kind of sent that to the moon you know what i'm saying like the the kids and like that's you know it was already a popular kind of dancing and like the culture you know what i'm saying so when they put it in the video that was it forget it that was that ruled hip-hop culture yeah at one point man i'm not gonna lie that that that shake that shake man you know i might have tried to harlem shake i mean everybody i mean white kids in the suburbs yeah yeah college kids yeah i know it was definitely a thing i i still don't know how to do it i tried you know what i mean i just can't get my body to do it grown people should do it it's for children yeah it is you know it's silly in hindsight but but it was a real like harlem staple it was a new york yeah thing i mean people still like like i'm i'm like it's it's actually it's a it's a real part of the culture man like you know what i'm saying like people people like kind of still associate that with um um you know just music and you know what i mean like you know yeah it just it just caught on and like clamped on you know what i mean because the video the music video was so powerful at this time yeah and that video was just everywhere yeah man they did that they did that man puffy puffy like you know the the visual of it the way you know with the fendi outfits and the fendi match the uh the set the set and you know they did that man so you know did he have his hands on those details like of of the music videos too like was he always did he always have input because he has so many things going on um or did he just have other people other workers doing that well um i'm not always sure like i know i know they will always talk about like yo we just we sat around and we did the treatment for the video you know you should have been present for it you know we did it you know we came up with a treatment you know so stuff like that so i'm not sure how much you know input he had into it because like he had um he had like uh you know big big uh directors doing the videos you know what i mean so a lot of the vision came from them too right so i'm not sure if like uh because little x did that video so i think that might have been like you know that seemed like something that he would think of because like that was the kind of videos he was making he was making like these groundbreaking videos at the time so i don't know who you know i know i know i i can i can even without me actually knowing i can probably say that i could say that puff probably had something to do with the the fashion part of it right you know what i mean like yo we should be wearing black and white let's wear the fendi you know i'm gonna do you know i'm saying stuff like that he was a genius marketer yeah he just knew about marketing he knew what was hot what was gonna catch right right he definitely definitely knew like what like you said like what was gonna catch people's eyes and you know he was good at making like uh like gimmicks when it came to you know marketing you know what i mean sure for sure yeah what was your relationship with him oh he was cool man you know he was he was you know he was he was definitely somebody that you know came from where i came from but just you know made it you know what i mean i mean he was the first example that i got to look at that you know somebody that looked like me that was you know successful you know what i mean but you know legally you know what i mean you know i mean i had you know a couple of good good uh uh examples of uh you know of people coming up i can't say i didn't see you know successful black people you know or you know just success coming up period you know but me running into him you know we had a lot of similarities we were both scorpios we you know both from harlem you know what i mean so it kind of it kind of made it seem attainable like i'm like wow maybe i can you know you know it was it was a big motivated factor you know dealing you know meeting them you know right so i was i always respected him just for that you know what i mean yeah and then he never showed me anything otherwise you know that was just my impression of him and that stayed my impression of him you know uh did he and he respected your your rap like he obviously thought you were talented yeah yeah he definitely used to tell me that like you're dead man you know he's you know he was he was definitely peculiar uh particular you know he wanted to say everything you know he wasn't scared to be like he wasn't a yes man like everything was hot yeah yo yo that's fire you know he was like nah you know go you know go back and do that over like that really yeah would he be in sessions with you yeah sometimes sometimes he'll be you know he'll listen to stuff and be like nah or you know more so when when he was doing stuff for herself you know he would you know be hands-on sitting there like you know you would you you um you record the stuff and you know he'll let you know if he if he wants it or not or change this do that you know things like that when it came to my my project we kind of just did it and then we kind of like had to you know let him you know okay to stuff right i mean me and harv harv pierre bobby springsteen you know conrad you know those are kind of like the you know the main the main people that we just we put the music together were those the beat makers or the a no those are those are like the and all okay yeah who did you who were some of the notable uh producers beat makers on your albums um i mean we had like ron lawrence ron lawrence did a couple of beats on it uh he did every day he had a yogi yogi did um uh let's get it that easy lp on there he did um he did a special delivery yeah chucky thompson um you know dudes dudes dudes was you know at the time those guys you know what i mean yeah you know um you know i got i got a lot of uh you know uh you know i had a lot of uh uh stuff played over by You know, Mario Winans, you know, Mario Winans did a lot of the, you know, like the overdubs on a lot of the music. You know, if I go down the line, you know, Jida, Al Jida, you know, dudes that were kind of like underground, but just, you know, had that, you know, that heat. Yeah. You know, they were on the album, you know. You were definitely one of his, like, hip hop guys because he had the gospel and the pop guys. You fell into, like, yeah, more of like the underground, like, spitters. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. You're a real spitter, you know. I appreciate it. Yeah. You know, I think that was one of the factors, too. Like, you know, when I got signed, I wasn't, like, you know, fresh, you know, just right off the street, actually. Because I had. I had just did a. I had got on Gangstar's album before that. Really? Yeah. You know, that's what I. Which album? Moment of Truth? Yeah, I was on the Moment of Truth album. That's one of my favorite hip hop albums of all time. What track? Yeah, I'm on them all. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? Okay, I'm going to go listen to that. Yes. After this interview. Right. So that was kind of how I think it kind of weighed in when they said they. Yeah. Yeah. They were going to sign me. Right. Like, I didn't, you know. At first, I was thinking, yo, the rhyme was so dope. You know, it was just kind of coupled with everything. When they knew that it was. Ain't that the kid that's on the Gangstar joint? So they was like, yeah, we'll sign him. So that was probably why I got signed as well. You know. And were you going on tour? Well, not really. I just went. You know, he was. He was signing. He was doing his album when we first signed. He was doing Forever. Right. So we wound up going to the Bahamas. And we, you know, just was there. We was kind of like, you know, his writing team. And so that was my first experience with, you know, dealing with him and writing. And, you know, the way he operated and stuff like that. So you were helping write Puffy's lyrics. Yeah. You know, that's how we do it. It was like a camp, you know. He would go on these retreats. Wow. And be like, yo, look, I want. You know, we would all gather together in the studio. He would like, yo, for this song. He would just talk first. Yo, look, you know, we're trying to. You know, the sound we're looking for. We're trying to. You know, y'all already know Bad Boy. You know, we. You know, we just. You know, we pride ourselves in quality, good music, da-da-da. You know, this is what we're trying to do, da-da-da. And then he would, like, take each artist. Yo, I need you to write this. I need you to write this. You know? And so, like, you know. Yeah. You know, that was the first thing I got. You know, the first time I got there. You know, the first experience with writing, he was like, yo, I need you to write this. And he would just pay us right there. Boom. Wow. Like, we used to be like, damn. You know, he would pay you before you did it. He would just be like, yo, here, write that. You know? So, you know, you would just be looking at the money, writing. You get free nights every night, all year long. Plus, a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first-of-its-kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy. TXU Energy. Visit TXU.com for more information. Rep number 10004. I can do this. Yeah, I can do this. It's possible. What would he throw you? Like a couple of G's? Yeah. He was doing like three grand. For writing. For a verse. Yeah, for a verse. Like, I remember one time I was in there. The first time, you know, he gave dudes. Well, this is what he did with me. He gave me, when we first got to the Bahamas, he gave me three grand. He was like, yo, I'm going to need you to write something. Just, you know, get to the studio tomorrow. You know, but this is for, you know, you're going to do something while you're down here. So I was like, bet. So I go to the studio the next day. I write it that night. He gives me the song, the CD that night. Then I go in the studio and I'm spitting it the next day, right? So I'm sitting there. I'm standing there. I'm on the mic. I'm rhyming. I'm doing the rhyme. Because, you know, that's how you do it. You spit it as a reference and then you give the engineer the lyrics so he'll have the lyrics. And listen to it. And then he'll know how to say it. And then, like, you know what I mean? And so I'm standing there, right? I'm saying the rhyme. Something hit me in my chest. Boom. I look on the floor. It's another $3,000. I said, oh, this is real. Word. He threw another stack at me. So, you know, I wind up doing like four joints. I came home with like 10 grand. And all your lyrics made it onto the forever album? Nah, he didn't use a lot of it. He just used one of them. He used. He might have used two. Like, he might have used, like, the rhyme to one of them. But one, I wrote him, like, a whole song. He used that. Which one? His joint called Pain. It's on the forever album. Okay. It's to that. It's to that. It's the Marv Deep used the beat, too. It'd be like. I want to pull it up on Spotify, but we can't for the copyright. I'm going to go listen to it. Oh, yeah. I'm sure I've heard it. You know, it's been so long, but I know I've heard it. Yeah, it was a good joint on there. You know, I wanted. I was wishing he didn't use it. It was so fire. I was like, damn. You wanted it for yourself. Hell, yeah. I was like, yo, this would be perfect for my, like, first joint. You know, like, people didn't know about me at that point. You know, I was, you know, as far as bad boy, you know what I mean? So, you know, I was like, damn, if I could use this. Because, you know, I'm coming from, you know, even though I did the Gangstar thing, you know, I had never rhymed off of these, like, industry real beats. Right. Like, me and my man, we was making beats, but it's not the same. It's not the same, like, the quality. You know, these dudes is EQing stuff on a high level. Like, everything sounds crazy. So, like, you know, I had never really, you know, getting into industry, I saw the difference between what I was rhyming over, you know? So, these are quality beats, great samples. Everything is just crispy. It's immaculate, and I'm just going in. And I'm like, damn, if I could use this for myself, I wrote that for him. I wrote another song called Shot, She Shot Me Down. You know, but that one made it. Wow. That's amazing. So, that was your, that was the beginning of Bad Boy before your albums even released. Yeah. Okay. So, you think the hype was, you know, the early 2000s, that was when the music videos were popping. Did you go on your own tour? Or did you go on, like, a bad boy tour? Um, yeah, when the album was dropping, we went on, like, a promo. I had to do a promo tour. Okay. It was small. Did you like doing live shows? Yeah, not really, though. Really? I mean, I, like, no, don't get me wrong. I'm mixing up the promo and the live shows, you know, because when we did the promo, it wasn't really shows. It was kind of just, like, we had to be at every radio station on the eastern mid-coast. Like, that was, like, super. It was super tedious. And then, you know, I wasn't prepared. Like, I didn't know what that entailed. So, I'm smoking wild weed. I'm high. Yeah. I'm not rested. Yeah. Like, they calling me, yo, that what I'm saying? Like, you know, and I'm, like, in the hotels, just, like, out of it. So, like, you know, that was kind of, like, a whole thing for me. So, but, you know, I learned a lot. You know, I learned that you got to do that kind of stuff, you know. But that was. That was to the extent of touring that I did. Like, just the promo stuff. Wow. Because that's today, if you're an artist, you got to be on the road. Yeah. That's how you're making your money. It's a fact. Like, you know, like, I just didn't think I needed to do that. Yeah. Totally different time. Yeah. Hell yeah. So, at this time, you said you started getting into PCP to relax. Yeah. How do you relax off PCP? I thought that made you run around and go crazy. Well, yeah. Get naked in the middle of the intersection. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people felt that way or feel that way. But, you know, well, it wasn't to relax for me. It was just to check out. I knew PCP would make you not thinking about nothing. It ain't like, you know, I was trying to, you know, forget about stuff. So, you were still thinking about the murder? Yeah, yeah. At that time. Even when Bad Boy is popping and. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, at, you know, my album dropped, you know, I got a little bit of notoriety. The, you know, just the whirlwind of just, you know, having to be everywhere. Yeah. I was doing probably four shows a week. Like, it was just, let's get it, let's get it, let's get it, let's get, you know. And so, you know, when kind of, you know, the next year came around and it was time to record the new album. You know, I was kind of, you know, that's when I started, like, kind of, like, you know, I don't know, I just kind of, like, got on a. know a reflective mode like you know what i mean like and i was like i started thinking about that that crime a lot more you know what i mean and i was like yo you know this is the only thing i think that uh check me out you know what i mean like whatever problems i had that was what i needed to check me out and it was wild because like i want to say when i first signed in like 98 my friends a couple of guys that i knew like you know they were putting the dust to the pcp in their weed and they were right i'll never forget they were in my back seat i'm riding i just bought the new volvo i'm riding around i got them in the back seat right and they you know and they like and they putting the dust in the weed right and i'm like yo y'all putting dust in the wheel i'm like yo y'all bugging man i was like yo i said yo you know what's gonna happen i said y'all gonna stop smoking that with the weed and just be smoking it by us by itself in a minute that is crazy y'all y'all losing your mind smoking that that is crazy that should i said get that i said don't even like that in here you can't be serious right so years later four years later this isn't just my thing it's fully on dust like you know what i mean fully on goal with dust right so so so i said yo you know that was just i don't know what that was that was just like i don't know but anyway so you know i just that's when i started smoking it at first i was smoking it with weed you know but it was doing it was it was it was making me it was doing something to me like it was like making me trip but like also paranoid you know what i mean so it was like i had to stop smoking it with weed so i started smoking it by us by bias i said what would have happened if i smoke it by by itself then and that was it i was off to the right i said this is what i was looking for that was your drug of choice yeah i said yeah you know what i mean i said yeah this i could check right out with this and could you function on it well not at the time you know what i mean it was like one of them things where you smoke it and you just stuck for a second you know what i mean but then after that you know then i started taking like vitamins with it you know what i mean so like it wasn't like i don't know i don't know you know i praised the creator like that it didn't just drive me nuts you know what i mean and do what it did to other people yeah but you know the way i was using it that's how i was using it like anytime i smoked it i would like pop vitamins and then use it right you know what i mean and then you know i was still you know still was you know debilitated no but i think that kind of helped you know keep me like kind of keep you from fully yeah fully just gone because if that stuff builds up in your spine and in your body like i think that's where the damage comes from like when you keep when you have it in your in your system and not cleaning out you know what i mean and i was also jogging that you know i stayed healthy you know kind of not not healthy but you know i also had this habit of steaming out that i had while i was on the bad boy run i had this thing i used to do and and you know that's why i you know you can never say you would go back and do things over and like if you could do because all of this stuff taught me and it kind of showed me you know if i wouldn't have done these things that i you know i might not have been the same because i you know coming from shock shock you know taught me to jog you know what i mean so when i came home i was a jogger i was i was that guy running down the street and in traffic and you know what i mean running around central park you know what i mean so when i got on bad boy i was still you know accustomed to going in you know getting in the shower with the steam i would like jogging place for two or three hours with the steam and you know what i mean like running around central park you know what i mean so when i got on bad boy i was still you know accustomed to going in you know getting in the shower with the steam i would like jogging place for two three hours in there sometime you know what i mean you know so i was i was already used to like cleaning myself out so even with even when i was smoking dust like days when i you know i still had a regimen you know i said like i would go run you know plus i was popping vitamins so you know you know i can't say it wasn't affecting me but you know i still you know i think that's what helped me you know what i'm saying that's fascinating i've never heard of a functioning machine in the world i didn't know you could buy dust like where would you were cats selling it still in 2000. yeah like it was it was a thing like you know what i mean they were like spots yeah new york yeah oh yeah oh yeah like heavy like you know what i mean i don't know i don't know like what's up with it now but at that time like that's just like super like like you know you had and dudes was actually you know you know going you know going up top with it it was getting a lot of money with it oh yeah for sure i mean hell yeah so sure you know and they was getting they was definitely getting my money you know what i mean yeah wherever it was at i was like your word is over there you know how much were you spending not a lot i mean i would i would buy like um you know i was one of them dudes that would smoke two bags put it in you know put it in one blunt smoking i was i'm good for the day you know you know if i if i was feeling crazy i would do that again at the at night you know what i mean but that was to the extent of it like i i couldn't smoke no more than that you know what i mean like you know i would smoke probably two or three bags a day you know but then after a while you know it become it became when i you know when the money you know becomes less and less it starts to become you know you start to start look you start looking crazy out there you know what i mean so that was that was where that could they tell could could people at bad boy tell that you were kind of losing it well yeah i mean bad boy you know i really didn't go through like you know i was still kind of up when i was on dust and bad boy right were you just using pcp or were you also like getting into coke because i know you went to puffy's parties yeah like so were you like were you doing uppers too oh nah nah i would when we were when we were going to like puff parties like you know we were we were going to this to the joint site when we were going like to miami he was throwing big parties and you know we were just we would have to go because we were bad boy you know what i mean so it was like you you know you had to pop out you know everybody was there so anybody want to talk about they didn't go to a ditty party you were there man you know what i mean it wasn't like it was a ditty party it was just it was just like a party yeah that he probably threw you know what i mean so it was like it wasn't no secret rooms and all that crazy it was just like you know just a big venue and then you know fire breathing people in cages and all types you know people juggling fire and all the like parties was crazy you know what i'm saying so you know like so you know you just wanted to be at these spots you know what i mean and you're kind of you're like the in crowd yeah one of the cool guys yeah yeah basically you know what i'm saying you're the cool kid you know what i'm saying on campus and then you know so we there you know we would show up and break out go back to the hotel you know what i mean they were fun though sounds like fun super fun you know you go there you know you mingle you know do what you do you might you know get out of there with somebody stuff like that regular party stuff were you drinking not really you know saying at that time well yeah no excuse me at that time you know i wasn't really into the dust you know at that time you know what i mean like like i said like i was you know when i got into the dust i want to say where to where it was like a problem like not a problem to where it was an addiction addiction to where it was my thing well i didn't because when i started smoking dust dust really like i couldn't even smoke weed anymore like i stopped smoking weed you know what i mean so you know this was when i was on bad boy and i was dealing with dust like i was still smoking weed you know what i mean like weed was my thing you know what i mean but the dust i didn't know what what was happening to me like you know what i mean like i was smoking the dust and um you know i was having you know i was you know i used to get like super hostile and like you know i'm saying it just you know just be talking to people all crazy you know i didn't know that was why though you know what i mean so i was going through that at that time you know what i'm saying you know but you know they just thought i was you know just like you know whatever i was doing i was doing to excess you know what i'm saying so they spoke to me about it you know a couple of times yeah yeah you need to go to a rehab that you know because like what's going on bad boy the people are bad what's going on bad boy the people are bad boy yeah this is like 203 okay you know they was like what are we doing you know what i mean you know then after a while you know that's when it became to be a problem like you know what i'm saying maybe like about you know you know now i'm trying to put together this next album and you know they not they're not feeling you know my my vibe you know what i mean so that was that was how i got dropped you know what i mean they was like yo look get yourself together because you know what i mean dude what are we doing we we can't you couldn't even finish the album yeah yeah like you know i was coming down i was making these just wacky songs like they was like you know what i'm saying like i i couldn't even really like write the way i used to like it was a whole different you know i was just i just just write you know so you know you know the thing about dust is kind of like it's kind of like a a mind it's like an experiment like it's it's the illest way you can experiment i think i think maybe all drugs is like that it's like how people experiment with like the you know the shrooms and you ever seen like it's like that like you could kind of you know like i noticed that i was just just kind of experimenting with my mind when it came to that stuff. I would think of certain things and I knew how to heighten my mind to a certain point where I could see certain things and think about certain things. So that was what my thing was. I was kind of experimenting, you know what I mean? But people ain't have time for that. These dudes got business. Rob Markman: Right. You got to get it out. This is a business. You got to get this album ready. Rob Markman: This is work. We got to get this album ready. I'm over here experimenting, doing these mind experimentations and heighten. I feel like I'm vibrating at a higher frequency because I'm thinking these certain ways and reading these certain things. But nobody ain't got time for that, bro. Where's the album? Rob Markman: Yeah. So that's when they were like, "Yo, look, either shit or get off the pot." You know what I'm saying? So that was what happened. Dudes was like, "Yo, when you ready, you know where bad boy is at, bro." You know what I'm saying? And I wound up getting dropped. Rob Markman: So did you get more? So how many albums had you done before you got dropped? Because you had an eight album deal. Yeah. I did like an album and like a half. Well, you could say I did two albums, but like I said, the songs weren't. I never heard them again. They weren't something that you would. It was one song, a couple of songs that were decent enough to put out, but I never really heard them again. Rob Markman: Did you speak to Puff after that? Not really. After 2004, I kind of did my own thing. I figured out mixtapes were a big deal. I figured out that you can basically make a lot of money. Rob Markman: You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I started making good money selling mixtapes. I started putting mixtapes together. Then I was getting shows still. MySpace had just came out, so I realized people. Once I put my profile up, people would contact me, "Yo, Depp, we need you out here," all this. So I was eating like that. Rob Markman: Oh, wow. Yeah. Rob Markman: So you were making money in the mixtape era? Yeah. The mixtape era, I was selling my mixtapes and I was doing shows. That was how I was eating. Rob Markman: Okay. Then the publishing started kicking. Rob Markman: Started kicking in. Rob Markman: Oh, so you were getting royalties from the hits. Yeah. So I was kind of just at that stage. That was my thing. I wasn't dealing with Puffy or anybody. But you still had Black Rob. That was my man that was still on Bad Boy. So that was kind of my connection to them still. I would send a little, "Yo, tell Puff I said what up." You know what I mean? Stuff like that. You know? Like that. But nothing really came about as far as revamping my project until about 2008. Rob Markman: What happened then? He needed some writing done and they contacted me. So I started writing for- Rob Markman: For Puff? Yeah. Rob Markman: For what? What album? I think he wanted something for the last train to Paris. First they contacted me to do, I think this might have been like '09, because it was a little close to me turning myself. They contacted me to do, Justin, his son, was turning 16. So he wanted me to perform. He had a bunch of performers that was going to perform at this club called Exit. Rob Markman: Exit. And that was the day he gave Justin a white Phantom. The Phantom was in the, when you come to the venue, you see the Phantom, it's like behind the red ropes. Rob Markman: Yeah. You know, it's in the venue. You don't know what it is. You just think, he's just trying to make the place look good. But turns out it was Justin's present. So we all in there. So I wind up performing. I was there. Fabulous. It was a lot of people there that day performing. So that was kind of the first time I got back up with Bad Boy, you know what I mean? And then like years, I mean, excuse me, then a couple of months later in the fall, he called me to write for the album and I wound up writing for the Last Train to Paris album, you know, stuff like that. Rob Markman: So it's not like you just fell off the map and just became a junkie. You were still putting out music, making money, touring, but the whole time you're using. Yeah. And then also what I was going through was kind of stopping me, you know what I mean? Because I felt like, I remember feeling like, I felt like I couldn't move on. Rob Markman: Wow. Like, I felt like, okay, what do you think? You just stop smoking? Justin? Yeah. And then it's going to be over and then you're going to move on? No. Rob Markman: The demons are going to come back. Yeah. So it was like, you know, I felt like I couldn't stop doing what I was doing, you know what I mean? Like, so it was like, you know, it was definitely one of those things, man, where it was, I was bound to what I had going on. Like, no way, no way out of, out of, out of that. Like it was, you know, like I said, I couldn't, I wouldn't even allow myself to move on. Rob Markman: And you had a family at this point. Right. Rob Markman: You have kids? Yeah. I had, I had kids, yeah. Rob Markman: Did you tell your wife what you were going through? Yeah, I did. I did actually. I told her, I said, I, you know, I told her, I said, look, I did something when I was younger, you know, this was, this was my, my, my wife at the time. My, my, my daughter's mother, you know, she knew about it, kind of. Well, she didn't know about it, it's just we were together when it happened. So she didn't like know, but she, you know, she, you know, she was like, look, you know, whatever happened that night, like, you know, we never even talked about it. Rob Markman: Right. But, um, my, my, my years later, I got married to a woman and she, she didn't know anything about it. She was like, kind of, you know, from a different place, she came from Florida, you know, so she was like, you know, she knew about New York life, but, you know, it was no need for me to talk about all of that stuff, you know? So, but one day, one day I told her, I said, I said, um, you know, I did something when I was younger, man, you know, starting to bother me, you know, sometimes I think about turning myself in for it and she was like, she was like, well, what about your sons? And, you know, stuff, that was her thing, you know, you're gonna just leave us and like, you know, that was a long time ago, you know, stuff like that, you know? So that was, that was to the extent of it, you know, I told her about it. Rob Markman: Wow. That's so fascinating. You felt like you couldn't move on. You're trapped smoking PCP to, to block out the guilt and the, the demons. Right. So then, then, then you become, you become just like, you feel like you, all of a sudden, you, okay, this is, this is what you do to keep your life at this, at this bottom level. I was just like, you know what I mean? So if you stop this, you know, that's how the mind, that's how my mind just tricked me. It was like, you stop smoking this, you're basically going to die. Rob Markman: How, how so? Did you ever try? Did you ever try to live with what you had done without drugs? No. And I think that was the fear that I was scared. You know, that was the, what? You know, I look, I associated with me stopping it, that I was going to die, so to speak. Like, it was the fear of living without it. Like, I didn't know how I would do that at this point, as I've done, I've, I've, I've traversed this whole thing so much and like, I understand what I've done at this point, you know? So for me to pedal back and be like, okay, now forget it. Rob Markman: Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if you had gone to a therapist and talked it out and just been like, hey, there's this thing that's weighing on my mind. Maybe they would have told you to turn yourself in, but I'm curious to what, you know, who knows now, right? If you had really just got off of PCP and, and started to talk through what you had done. Right. But I still think it all ended up on me. It all would have ended up, you know, with me going to jail. Because even if you confess, you know, like to a priest, I suppose I said this to somebody else too, like, even if you confess to a priest about a murder, the priest is not going to say, yo, hail Mary full of grace, you know, go your way son. He's going to say, yo, turn, you got to turn yourself in. Rob Markman: Really? Yeah. They not, you know, especially when it comes to like murder, you know, they not going to tell you, don't worry about it. They, you know, pray, you know, just. Rob Markman: Mm. You know, they, they, you know, because this actual person that, you know, died, like, you know, they can't, they can't tell on you. Rob Markman: Right. But I think they would, you know, they would encourage you to turn yourself in. Rob Markman: This is how you can be saved. Yeah. Rob Markman: Is by repenting. Yeah. Rob Markman: Yeah. Are you a religious man? Did you grow up religious, believing in God? Yeah, I grew up, you know, my family, my grandmother, she used to, you know, we used to go to church. We would definitely go to church every Sunday. Did you worry about, like, going to hell? That was the thing, as, like, a Catholic, you were, like, taught one of the first commandments is thou shall not kill. So I was always, I'm so paranoid even to this day about going to hell, if that exists. Right. And this is why, like, I just can't live with doing that. I got you. Did you feel that way, or did you think about the afterlife? Yeah, yeah. You know, I felt like, I thought about it more so, like, in an eternal sort of way. I felt like my way of thinking. I understand it was like, you know, our eternal souls have to always, are always, you know, present. If not in this life, in this body, you know, eternally. So, like, anything that's on your soul is on your soul. So that was how I looked at things. It was like, okay, this is never going to be something that is just going to be like, yo. You know, you didn't. TXU Energy. Number 1-0-0-0-4. You know, it never happened. So I just felt like I had to do something, you know, to at least try to write it, you know. Do you remember the day that you decided that you were going to turn yourself in? It was just one day that it really dawned on me. I was like, well, if I turn myself in, this might, you know, that might be the solution. Like, you know how, you know, because I was, I was like kind of just going through the motions of it. I've been like, oh, every day, you know what I mean? And then one day it just dawned on me. I was like, and it made me feel good. Like, it made me, like, the weight was lifted. I was like, yo, if I turn myself in, this should be over. It's like freedom. Yeah. Even though you're going to go away and be incarcerated, you'll be free. Hell yeah. It just dawned on me. I was like, oh, but it still took me away. I think that's when I started asking people. I was like, yo, what you think about me? You know, if I turn myself in, you think that would be? That would be, like, crazy. People was like, yes. You bugging. Yes, it would be very crazy. That's when I read that in the magazine, the source. I was like, this motherfucker's tripping. Yeah, that's a fact. Like, you know, everybody felt that way. But the only thing that I felt would be able to free me from that. You know, I didn't know the guy. I couldn't go talk to his parents and say sorry or whatever. So I said, look, if I turn myself in, you know, the freedom. The freedom that I got behind that was all I needed. I was like, damn. I was like, yo. And, you know, that was when I seriously started thinking about it. Yeah. How long after you had that realization did you then go, finally go to the precinct? I would say, like, I would say maybe the end of that year. I think it might have been in the beginning of 2010. I remember I was at my daughter's mother's house. I was in the Bronx. Just sitting there, and it came to my head, you know. And then later on. And then later on that year is when I turned myself in. It was probably about six or seven months later. Do you remember the date? That I turned myself in? Yeah. I think it was, like, December 17th or 16th. It was a little bit before Christmas. Wow. Yeah. I had just dropped an album, this album called Ghetto Legend. And I had signed to this small label in Florida. And he kind of gave me all creative control. It was a dope little deal. It wasn't no money involved, really, like, up front. Like, he didn't have no advance money for me. But he was a good dude, you know, good guy. He had a good situation for me, a dude named Jeffrey Collins. He had a label named Famous Records. And he was like, yo, he was like, yo, you know, just put the album together and do the artwork. But I put it out. He had a deal with Universal Digital. So I was like, man, that sounded like a good idea. Then he had, like, a good network up here. He's down in Florida getting me, like, little showcases, like, you know what I mean? Venues to showcase the album and all that. So he definitely had a little pool, you know, a little footing up here. So I said, bet. You know, so that was one of the things that I was like, damn, I don't want to go through this, you know, putting out this album and go through this. That I went through with Bad Boy. You know, having this on my mind and, you know, him stressing out and all of that stuff all over again. So I said, you know what? I'm going to turn myself in and see what's happening. Get this all out the way. If nothing happened, I'm good. I won't think about this no more. So I said, that was what kind of drove me to the album. You know, and it just reminded me too much of Bad Boy. I was like, this. This reminds me of that time all over again. So I was like, you know what? Let me go now to the, before this album really drops, let me go now to the precinct. See if, you know, what happened to this guy. If nothing happened, fine. If so, then, you know, so be it, you know? So I went down there. Did you get your affairs in order? Like, did you let your family know, like, hey, this is what I'm about to do? Nah, which I should have. Like, it was, nah. I should have did that. I should have, like, you know. I mean, I don't know what I really could have got in order. Like, I could have probably, I mean, the only thing, only thing I would have really got in order was, like, you know, where my publishing checks were coming and stuff like that. But they were already coming to certain people and certain addresses. So I didn't even have to worry about that. I was getting, you know, I was paying my child, my wife. She got upset with me. At a certain point. Because I was going back and forth between, you know, her and my son's and my daughter's mother. You know, I was young. You know, I didn't really know how to deal with having two baby mothers. So, you know, I was, like, kind of just going back and forth between them. And one day I went to see my son, my daughter's mother. And I'm married to this woman now, you know? Yeah. And I leave for, like, two weeks. Goes, you know. I'm with them down south somewhere. And when I come home, she's like, yo, you just think you could just leave for two weeks? And I know where you at. And she's like, I'm putting you on child support. And this is my wife. Like, we still, like, living together. But, you know, I dug it, though. I was like, I deserve that. She was like, yo, look, I'm taking you to child support. You're like, two weeks. Watch this. 15 to life. Hold on. Oh, two weeks? You thought that was a lie? I think we figured out why you actually turned yourself in. You're tired of the baby mama drama. Word up, right? You know, sometimes I think about that. Like, yo, I think I just was stressed. But, nah, seriously, though. So, you know, her doing that, she was already, so she was getting the child support, the checks that were coming for the big royalties. She started getting those twice a year. I was kind of fine with that, you know? Because I was, you know, I was making money. That was just, like, extra money that I would get every two, twice a year. And, you know, it felt better that my kids got it anyway. So, I was like, bet, you know? So, I didn't have to worry about, you know, them not, you know, having money when I got locked up. And then, you know, my son, my daughter, I had the other ass cap going to her house. So, you felt like everybody was. Everybody was good. Yeah. Now could be the time for me to. Yeah, it was like. To turn myself in. Yeah, it was kind of like, you know, I didn't feel like, you know, I would have been, you know, too, you know, I would not be contributing. So. So, I meant, like, when I said fair is in order, did you say goodbye? Oh, nah. Nah, I didn't, though. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, like, like, I didn't, it just, it just so happens, like, one day I did a, I did a, I did a, like, a kind of, like, an interview. It was like a, it was like a freestyle in a cab, and after I got out the cab, I was like, I said, this is the day I'm going to do this. Wow. Where it was nighttime, I'll never forget, I got out, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to, you know, go, go any longer like this, you know what I mean? So, I had, and then I had already, previously, like, maybe about a, maybe about a week or maybe about a month before that. I went into the precinct and told them, I said, yo, look, I did something. but a few years back in 93, such and such, they were like, beat it. They were like, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I flushed my turtle down the toilet when I was 15. What are you telling me? I was like, yo, listen, man, I'm telling you this is what I did. And he was like, okay. He gave me his card. He was like, all right, we haven't heard from anything. He said, when did it happen? I said, 1993. He said, you think you waited long enough? And then I was like, excuse me, I was like, you know, whatever. And then so he gave me his card. He was like, yo. And he said, let me get your phone number too. I gave him my phone number. He was like, I'll call you if anything, okay? I said, okay. I lost my phone, right? So now. That was like kind of my deciding, my point where I was like, okay, well, you know, if they don't call me, you know, it is what it is. But then I lost the phone. So I was like, damn, I'm never going to know if they tried to call me. So I said, I'm going to go that night. I said, I'm going to go back down here one more time. And which precinct, the same precinct where you grew up in East Harlem where you caught the murder? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right there on 120th or 119th or something. So I get on the train. I said, this is it. This is the last time I'm doing this. You know? So I get to the train. Goes there. I said, all right. You know? So I go in. I said, yo, look. I told him. I said, you know, a couple years back, I shot somebody. I don't know what happened. You know, I just wanted to make sure everything. You know? If he passed or what. You know, I'm just trying to rectify the matter. He was like, for real? He was like, wow. He said, all right. So this was a different guy. You know, he was a little bit more thorough. He was like, oh. He was like, all right, hold on. So he goes back. He comes back. He asked me a couple more questions. Yo, what were you wearing that day? You know? I said, I had a brown jacket on. He was like, I said, I was riding a bike, too. He was like, oh, really? He goes in the back. He comes back. He was like, he was like, around when was it? Like, when, do you remember? Like, when was it? I said, it was like in the, in the, in the winter. It was like in the winter. I said, I had a jacket on. So it was like the fall. He was like, he was like, yo, could you step back here with me for a minute? And so I was like, you know, I said, yeah, this is, you know, this is it. You know? So when he stepped, when I, when I stepped back there, he started asking more questions. You know? Come to find out, you know, that's when they, they had, I guess at that point, they already knew that it was like, oh, this is the case right here. You know? It was like, yo. Cause they, and they come to find out, they, they, once we found my name out, I guess that's what also made him, you know, be, you know, like kind of like peaks of suspicion. Cause he was like, yo. He was like, cause, cause come to find out my name was on the, like, they already like knew it was me. So you were like a person of interest in the shooting? Yeah. Okay. Like, I never knew that. Like when I, cause when I, when the, when the DA was asking me the questions and stuff like that, they were like, um, they were like, yo, um, they were like, yo, you, um, uh, yo, I'm looking at the thing. What, what, what thing? The, uh, the, the, the, the police report. Like, I can't remember. I can't remember. I can't remember. I can kind of see, see it. Did they show you a photo of the body? Like, did they take pictures? Yeah, like they had a bunch of that stuff. Like they had like pictures of him and stuff like that, but they were just asking me questions mostly. But like, I can kind of see his, his, his like little, whatever he had, like the folder and I could see like my name, you know what I mean? Like, and you could tell like it was old, you know what I mean? And I was like, and I think I might even ask him, I was like, how come my name is right there? And he was like, yeah, you know, somebody told us that you, you might have something to do with this back then. Wow. Back then. So somebody that you told back then. No, not nobody I told. How could they have, how could they have known your name? They might have saw it out the window or they might have saw it or knew it was me. Or just, I don't know. It might've been. Who knows? I don't think it was somebody I told. Yeah. Who knows? Everybody's always talking. Yeah. People are always getting arrested and giving out names to try to get themselves out. Try to get themselves out. Yeah. Or somebody might've actually seen it. Yeah. Oh, look, that was, you know, it was this guy. So your name was in the file and then the details you gave them. Yeah, that just sealed it. How long did it take them? Like, how long were they back there interrogating you? Oh, not long. It was, I mean, it was, it was like, it just seemed, it seemed like, you know, quick to me, but it was, we was back there for hours. Like I, I, I got there about like one in the morning. By the time we were done, it was like six in the morning. They were leaving. You know, when we left, it was daylight, you know, when we was going down to the central booking and all that. Okay. So they arrest you. Yeah. They arrested me. And then that was that, you know, and, uh, you know, I didn't, uh, I don't know how. And then, uh, you know, then I started thinking about when we were headed down to the precinct, I mean, to central booking, I started thinking about my family and things like that. And I'm like, and I'm like, damn, I need to call somebody. You know, I've been gone all morning. You probably wonder where I'm at. And then when I finally got to the pre, uh, down to central booking, I was able to make a call, some calls. And then I called my mother. She was like, you know, you know, this thing is already, it was already on the news. I was like, how this is like just happened. Like, I'm only in the precinct. How the hell is it on the news? The New York Post. I'm sure. Yeah. It was on, it was like on, uh, remember they had the MTV thing back then. Yeah. What's the guy name? Um, Sway? No, the, um. Carson Daly? Nah, the older dude. He was like the older dude. MTV. Oh, Kurt Lowder. Kurt Lowder. Ah, Kurt Lowder. Rest in peace. Legend. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Kurt Lowder. You know, he was telling, he was talking about it. Wow. I didn't realize that wasn't Kurt Lowder was. But yeah, man. Yeah. Wow. So he, he, he, he did the report. He was like, yeah, rapper. I've been, I've seen it later on. And then, um, yeah. So, you know, uh, it was, it was wild. Was your family shocked? No, I mean, they, they, I told them about it before, you know, so they, they weren't like unfamiliar with what they were talking about, but they were shocked that, that I did that, of course. I'm sure the other inmates were shocked. Oh yeah, man. They were. Oh man, you tripped them. Yo, I can't believe, yo, yo, man. I'm bugging. Word. It was like dudes, you know, I got it. I got it from all angles. But I, to me, I didn't. I didn't care. So that freedom. Yeah. That weight lifted off your shoulders. You felt that? Yeah, man. Like, like to me, it was, you know, I used the justice system to, to, you know, for, for, for, you know, for, for my benefit. Yeah. Like I was, I wasn't there for that. Like I didn't care what they thought. Like I needed to, y'all don't know, they didn't know what I went through. So what were you charged with? Um, so to speak. So, um, I mean, you know, like that's how I looked at it. I looked at it like, you know, that I needed, I needed help. I didn't, I didn't care what, what, what, uh, what, uh, people were saying and stuff like that. But they charged me, they charged me, uh, with, uh, second degree murder. They charged me, um, yeah, second degree murder. Because you're, you weren't intending to kill him. Right. And they believed you. Like you were there to rob him. Right. Right. According to my story. If that's all they had, it was just like, yeah, you know, I mean. So who did, did the individual's family come to court? Like, did you find out who they were and, and they must have obviously been contacted, right? Yeah. Yeah. The, um, what I understand his, his brother-in-law came, his brother-in-law came to, uh, you know, he was more vocal about everything. You know, he was like, you know, he was the guy that was, you know. Yo, he didn't have to do that. You know, he should have, he should have shut his mouth. You know, we were, you know, we were past it. We were trying to heal. We were over it. Wow. Word. It was like the complete opposite of what I thought a family member would have said. Totally. He was like, he was like, I hate him even more now. I was like, damn. And he was just like, you know, he was wilding, he was wilding in the, in the, uh, in the auto, which is understandable. It was like, you can't expect people to feel the way you want them to feel. Right. But he was just like, yo, this guy's, this guy's a complete asshole. Like, I don't know what the hell he was thinking. Like, he should have just kept his mouth shut. That's fucking crazy. Word. Because anytime you hear about a family after a cold case gets solved, they're like, I've been living with this for every day since he left us. I'm so relieved. Yeah. Like, he just wowed on me. Like, yo, I can't believe this. If he could have spit him off. If he. he probably was more upset that I did that than actually, that's what it is. seemed like and so yeah how long were you did they send you to rikers um while you were waiting to go to trial or go to court uh yeah i went i was in the tombs at first but then i went to rikers island i was on rikers island and you hadn't been back there for 15 20 years yeah yeah that was that was yeah was it a trip being back there no i mean actually actually no i can't even say that because um before i went before you know like i like i said i i was i was at you know i was at a low point it's just you know in my life at that time you know i was out there at a certain point like i was just you know just living check to check you know show to show like you know even the shows was like after a while you know you know i was you know so so i was getting arrested a lot you know i was and i was going to rikers island oh i was like oh yeah so i was like a regular home rikers oh no way so you were going you were getting arrested for what just trespassing i was in a building i used to i used to go in a building and smoke smoke the dust yeah so i would go in the building smoke i was always in the wrong building at the wrong time you know what i mean hey you you got id no come on you know like i got so many of those you know it was disgusting so you really were like a adult fiend uh sorry i know that's insulting but i mean that's just describing it you were a real addict i was yeah i was i was destitute i was a destitute addict yeah you know what i mean like like i was living you know people they really want me to live with them you know what i mean and you know but but you know i still have my family you know i'm saying they were they were they were still there for me you know i'm saying i was still who i was to them you know they still could see me and and and and me but you know i was a destitute addict you know what i mean you know the outside looking in like it was bad you know what i'm saying like you know i couldn't you know everything that i you know was was into you know everything that i had worked towards was was out of there you know what i mean so i was just kind of trying to rebuild you know in my own way you know what i'm saying yeah you know what i'm saying so like i said like i was just like i was getting caught in buildings and and you know just suspended licenses riding around you know high i almost i almost i almost got a dui didn't but um they dropped it because i was just sitting in the car and then the guy kind of pulled like came and they asked me for my so i was like in cost uh and intoxicated or high or whatever and he was like yo but i want to be in that you know what i mean but you know i saw you know i was going back and forth to the island you know so much that when i got there it was like oh you again but you were here for what you know one of those things this episode is brought to you by txu energy for the first time ever texans have an 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you for some other case so let's make them actually you know bring the facts you know just take you on through it interesting yeah so we so we took it to trial and the reason why he did that was because he said yo look they offering you 15 to life so if you blow you're gonna get 15 to life either way he said either he said there's they they're gonna give you 15 of life even if you blow but at trial what is your defense trying to to defend you based off of because you're confessing right he really he really wasn't trying to defend me he was really trying to make sure that the case that they were trying to prove was the case that i confessed to like the right the right body right because if not years later they could say oh wait right no that wasn't that somebody else so now we're going to arrest you for this right and you're already sitting doing 15 to life and now i got another 15 to life or whatever yeah i see or or it was just or maybe i didn't do what i did maybe maybe the guy maybe you gotta maybe the case that you're talking about the guy didn't die you know what i mean right so let's make sure that this is the case right you know what i mean so that was that was what we did wow that's really interesting from a legal perspective yeah but i could i could tell that that was the case like i knew off the rip the first day we went to trial they showed i don't mean to laugh but they they showed the crime scene yeah like you know what i mean like they showed the the the market i'm like they couldn't have happened like it couldn't have been no other time that that happened at that time right there at that spot right you know what i'm saying like i live in that neighborhood like i would have probably knew about it you know what i'm saying did you take the stand no i didn't take the stand but you know like i said they they showed they showed the cars and you know you know this is night this is 2010 you see the cars looking mad oh 90 yeah 93 you know they showed us the whole angle of where it happened i'm like oh my god i'm like i'm like oh my god i'm like i'm like yeah that's that's it but you know the the the the lawyer you know he he you know he he went all the way with it like let them let them trip up one time and you're out right you know so that was that was that was his thing what were you thinking in your mind were you like okay now that i've confessed i got this weight lifted off my shoulders if i beat the case like how were you feeling were you expecting to go home or were you just like whatever happens um as time went on i i gonna lie like i did i was like well maybe i'm maybe i'm not gonna go to jail you know maybe maybe just maybe that wasn't this isn't what happened you know but you know that was just kind of wishful thinking like i i just you know like i said like i turned myself in but i didn't want to go to jail you know what i'm saying i just i just wanted to get you know you know i knew that i was gonna either go to jail or not you know what i mean so you know the fact that i was going to jail was like okay i'm going to jail but you know still you know if i can get out sure you know what i mean like you know what i mean but if if i wouldn't if i would have if i would have realized he died still like you know like like that's why you know i thought i needed to you know be incarcerated you know if i if i would have you know so i'm saying like if if you know if they proved that it wasn't like if if they proved that this would have been crazy if they would have proved that it was some type of way if it was some fluke of chance that he would have that they would have found out that that said it wasn't me and he and it was and then and then this guy died and i knew that i did that then it would have been like something ill because like i i remembered his face after a while like when they start showing him i'm like yeah that was definitely him you know what i'm saying and so like you know so you know you know after a while i was just kind of like just wishful thinking like yo like maybe this is just all you did it for closure for yourself yeah you know what i mean yeah so and whatever happened jail or no jail you were yeah it was like you know now did you did you withdraw like now that you're on the island you're in jail are you withdrawing from from pcp oh nah pcp is really not that kind of drug like you know i mean you you um you know you go through like kind of i guess you go through withdrawal you sleep i just slept a lot it wasn't like a physical you know ache and pain dope yeah like heroin it wasn't like that it was just kind of just like you know i knew i couldn't smoke anymore you know what i mean so like i just you know i fell back so you go off so you go off you get sentenced in 2011. uh 2012. okay yeah so you get 15 to life yeah 15 15 to life um and then you just came home god what two years ago yeah and this is a really interesting case the governor of new york uh kathy hochul yeah yeah tell her tell us what happened man she she um she she they we put it for we put it for uh for clemency praise the creator man we put in put it for clemency and um what is the difference between clemency and and getting parole well we Well, clemency, it's like the government grants you early release, you know, where you don't, you know, most people that get clemency, you know, they don't, I don't even think, I don't know, I don't know for sure. I don't know. I don't think they have to, if you get clemency, I don't know if you even have to be on parole. You know, I think it's like a different kind of setup. But basically, you know, clemency lets you out before, that's what I think it really is. Clemency lets you out before your parole. Okay. It's like, you know, whereas you would still have to wait for your parole. Yeah. And so do you think that the fact that you turned yourself in, obviously you were remorseful, do you think that had a lot to do with getting the clemency? Yeah. I'm sure it did, right? Yeah. I think, I think that was, that had, you know, you know, that, that kind of weighed in when they, when they, uh, you know, made their decision because the clemency lawyer, he contacted me and he was like, yo, um, you know, they, they kind of suggested that they not kind of suggested, they suggested the, the, the judge and DA that tried the case suggested that I get clemency. Wow. Yeah. The judge and the DA. They, they contacted him, the lawyer. Yeah. And he contacted me. He said, yo, look, this never happens. They contacted me and told me to contact you. But this guy is so, is so sought, sought after, you know, so he gets thousands, literally of people trying to get him, you know, for, uh. This clemency lawyer. Yeah, this clemency lawyer, Steven Zeidman. And, um, you know, he just contacted me out of nowhere one day. Sent me an email on. J-Pay. And he was like, yo, look, um, you know, we, we looking, you know, this lawyer, the, uh, the judge and the DA recommended that I contact you to, you know, put your clemency in. And I was like, wow, really? So we started working. Wow. We did. We put the clemency in, you know, the first time I didn't get it. But then the next year it came around. Yeah, I got it. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, that never happens, right? Yeah. A guy turning himself in for a case. Yeah. 15 years old. 17 years old. Right. And he was like, you know, the judges then was like, you know, they were, you know, they just was like, yo, we didn't, we didn't want to give him all of that time, but we had to, you know? Yeah. So they were like, yo, you know, let him, let him out. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And you had a good prison record? Like you had like a. Yeah. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like super squeaky clean, but I didn't have anything that was like, you know. You know, super, super crazy, outstanding. Like I got a couple of tickets for like dumb stuff. Yeah. After 15 years, you're going to get a couple of tickets. How would you not get a ticket? Yeah. So, you know, but so, you know, it didn't, it didn't really matter for anything. Well, congratulations, man. That's a really deep story and it's so unique. And that's why when you guys hit me up, I didn't have to think twice. I knew I needed to hear this from you. Oh, for sure. Yeah. What a journey, man. How do you feel now? I mean. It's still amazing, man. It's still amazing, you know. And then to be an adult, you know, living, living life on, you know, life's terms, so to speak. Like, it's like, you know, it's everything. I mean, you know, life, life is, you know, life is, is what it is, you know, you know. But I'm just here for it. You know, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm glad that I'm here. I'm glad that I'm here for it. And you feel free. Yeah. You know, I feel free. I feel like, you know, you know, you know, it is, it is, you know, whatever will be will be kind of thing. Not it is what it is. It's just whatever will be will be now. You know, I did what I can do. So all I can do is live and, you know, it's in the hands of the creator now, you know. That's it, man. Are you promoting anything? What can we promote for you? Yeah, I mean, I'm, you know, I see, you know, I'm a walking billboard, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I love that, dude. Thank you, man. I got the album. We did a, we did a few albums. You know, we got a movie, a movie, excuse me, a book, you know, a book coming out written by a guy named Ron Borges. So we got that coming, you know, through, through, I ran into a guy named Dan Pearson, the producer, who, you know, has a, you know, a bunch of movies that he's involved in, a bunch of books. So I'm going through, through his, you know, his, his company and, you know. Well, what about the music? Where can, where can people find you? Oh, the music, man. They can find me, you know, just go, just punch in G-Depth. Yeah. For all you youngsters, dude, that don't remember the CD, the VCR, man, this man was popping. Go, go back and start from the beginning. Yeah, man. Punch in G-Depth, man. You can catch us at, you know, Instagram, at G-Depth Official. Keep, you know, if you want to, you know, be, be, you know, keep, keep up to date with what's going on in real time. You know, all the YouTube channels is G-Depth Official, at G-Depth Official, man. We got three albums out right now. Less is Never, Less is Never Losses, Stay Ready, and Off the Count. Yeah. You're putting in work, man. You're back energized. Yes. Yeah. That's definitely, that's definitely what's going on, man. That's what's up. Praise the creator. Man. It's been an honor. Likewise. It's been an honor. All right, you guys. We're going to jump over to the Patreon, and we'll talk a little bit more, just about anything we didn't get to. But G-Depth, man, I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. You got it. All right. Go check them out, and we'll see you next time. Head over to the Patreon.com slash The Connect Show. Peace out. Peace out. Peace out. It's home on Line of Fire, Monday on NBC.