2896: Why 95% of People Regain All Their Weight (And How to Be in the 5% Who Don't)

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If you love us, like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at MindPumpStore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to MindPumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, we're going to talk about why 95% of people regain the weight that they lose. And we're also going to talk about how to be in the 5% who don't. Let's get to it. The 95 comes from after year two. This is after I think it's after two. It's close to 70%. When we get to five years. Oh, it's five. Okay. Well, I know like the first year, a large percentage already gained it back. The second year, I think that gains. I thought it was about 30 or maybe it's five. Yeah, so most all put about. Well, here's how, okay, this is where it gets really dismal, the data. A small percentage of people actually accomplish what is considered statistically significant weight loss. You guys want to guess what that number is? Five to 10%. Really? If you're 300 pounds, 15 to 30 pounds would be considered statistically significant. Most people, I don't know about most, but a good chunk of people and you lose more than that. Okay. The percentage of people that actually accomplish that number is something like 15%. Of the 15% that lose the 5 to 10%, 95% of them gain it back. So if you look at the big total total number, your odds of losing the weight and keeping it off, it's like not going to happen. It's really, really slim. So it's an important topic because we focus a lot of time and energy. And I say we, I'm talking about the health and fitness industry, the diet industry. Focus is a lot of energy on how to lose the weight. Yeah. They focus almost no energy on how to keep it off. I do think they're connected though. I think how you lose it does contribute to. Oh, for sure. It was in their biggest loser study that was like even worse in terms of like the statistics. If no, it falls, it falls. Oh, yeah. Most of them gain a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the difference, the difference with the biggest loser though is that most of them do lose weight. Right. Okay. But they all gain a lot. It's just the rebound is the standard. They all gain a back. So it's really, really tough. And then if you look at other data, the more often this happens to you, in other words, let's say you are in that small percentage of people that lose the weight, but then you gain a back. And then you do it again and then you gain a back. Each success, success of attempt becomes more difficult. And then what tends to happen is people give up. Yeah. After they've lost the gain the way back, you know, two or three times, they're just like I'm not even trying. Well, yeah, because you know, your point, the method that which they go about it is so miserable just to get there. And then to a lot of times fall short of your ultimate goal or feel so miserable for so long. And what I mean by that is the method at which they approach this is super low calorie, tons of activity, cardio, yeah. Just white knuckleing their way to get there. And you look back and you go, you know, what I say your goal was to lose 80 pounds. And you got 30 or 50 even off, but you didn't even reach all the way your goal. And you're just like, I'm going to feel miserable. Yeah, you feel miserable. You've sacrificed so much. You go, man, I'd rather be 50 pounds heavier and do everything that I want, you know, and eat the way I want to eat. And that's kind of what happens. And the unfortunate part is when they do that and they give up and they go back the other way, it swings back even harder. That's right. So not only do they gain it all back really fast, but then even more of it comes back on because now their body is adapted to all that activity and that little of calorie. And so it's just a dangerous recipe. It is. And this is why people when they stop kind of to your point at them, when people get off the wagon, stop the workout, you know, go back to their old eating habits. If oftentimes what you'll hear is people will say, well, I just want to live my life. I just want to enjoy my life, which is interesting. I've brought this up before on the podcast, but when this first dawn on me was a year ago, years ago, I remember the first time I heard that we're actually sinkin, because I'd heard that before. We've all heard that. If you've worked in gym, do you hear people say, oh, I just stopped because I just want to enjoy my life or I can't do the dining more because I just want to enjoy food. And I heard that so many times, but one time it really sank in and I thought to myself, like this is very weird because enjoying your life, you should be able to enjoy your life more being healthy. Yeah. And yet people are saying they're going to allow themselves to be less healthy to enjoy their lives. There's something wrong here. There's something amassed. There's some wires being crossed because we know that improving your health and fitness improves your your quality of life. For sure, 100%, I think logically people know that. And yet people are stopping because they just want to just enjoy their life. So the method we could start by talking about the method and why or how people approach it and why it's so wrong. I think it's important to start with this point, which is whatever you do to lose weight or get in shape, it has to be something that you feel like you can maintain. Okay, so otherwise when you stop, you're going to go back to where you were before. So whatever the method is, you have to ask yourself, is this something that I will want to continue doing part of its discipline. The other part of it is if you do this in a very ineffective way, you're going to do way more work than is necessary. And you're just going to make it a lot harder in yourself. And this is where people screw up. So what they tend to do is they tend to look at activity as a way to burn calories. So I got to move more and move more and move more. And then they look at totally restricting with their diet and cutting their calories low. So it's like burn a lot of calories, eat a little calories. And this is really not a very successful. Yeah, and it's looked at as like a temporary, like all in kind of effort. Like I have to sacrifice all this to get to this point where I feel like I'm going to achieve this physique that I'm trying to achieve. And you know, once you get there, it's like, okay, well, you have to continue to do the work. You have to continue to exercise, have to continue to eat correctly. And I think that the misconception is that we're going to get to this place and then it's all going to kind of settle itself at that point. Yeah, so let's talk about like the, like let's move as much as we can to burn calories. That is a very difficult way to get your body to burn more calories just through movement. Now, movement's good for you. So I want to be clear, like you should move. But if your approach around exercises burn as many calories as possible, it's a lot of effort for very little in return. Okay, so like just to give you an example in every cardio machine out there and every workout program that cleans differently is wrong. We have actual data on this. - A typical person working out really hard for an hour. Like I mean like, really hard, intensive. What people would, what we would label as calorie, you know, calorically expensive activity, hit cardio or, you know, running or something very difficult. You're gonna burn maybe five, 600 calories in an hour. That's a five to 600 calories, and in an hour of breaking your butt. - You can eat that two seconds. - You could drink, you could have a couple of sodas. - Yeah. - And you could have that. - A very difficult way to burn five to 600 calories. Not to mention, the more you do it, the better your body gets at it and the less calories you actually burn while doing it. And that sounds crazy, but the better you get at a movement or skill, the body learns how to become more efficient with it, 'cause it's a wonderful adaptation process that we have. So now you're doing an hour of intense, like really hard, make you feel like you wanna puke workouts every day, just to create a 500 calorie extra burn. It's not very effective. The other strategy is, what kind of exercise gets my body to burn more calories on its own? That is a much better approach. - Well, it's also a behavior that's almost impossible to sustain. Like, how many people have you ever met that went on a mission of running on the treadmill for an hour every day, or even every other day for that matter, and then kept that up? - The only people I know that kept it loved. - Right. - So a lot of people, you have to go point. - You have exactly. If you're gonna choose a modality like running or swimming, it better be something that you love to do regardless of your weight. - Regardless of your weight and your aesthetics. It's like it can't be motivated by, I need to look a certain way. It's that I love to run. - I'll do it anyway. - Yeah, I love to swim. I don't care if I'm 50 pounds over underway, it doesn't matter. It's like I love to do those things. - Great point. - Then that makes sense. If it's not one of those things, and then you choose to go pick up running, it's just not sustainable. You're far better off either one, going the direction that you are about to go right now in the conversation, which is building muscle and building metabolism, or changing behavior, like lifestyle behaviors. I had way more success with clients that I convinced to make walking for 10 or 15 minutes after a meal a habit. - Totally. - Or, hey, why don't you make it a tradition that you and your spouse on Saturdays go for an hour hike where you get to connect and stuff. They can find ways to attach it to other things that add value to their life, or build it within their daily habits. That doesn't require them to go to the gym, doesn't require them to get all sweaty. Those are far more sustainable. - They are, and you're also not doing it for the calorie burn. A 10, 15 minute walk out from breakfast, this legend, there's not going to burn a ton of calories. It's good for you, but it's not going to burn a ton of calories. So my point with it is, if you're doing the workout for the calorie burn, that's not a sustainable approach you're going to fail. If you're doing the workout for adaptations, that can lead to a metabolic rate that burns more calories, much better approach. For example, you could strength train a couple days a week for most people two days a week with accomplices, two days a week, strength training, feed your body to build muscle, and you could, and we do this pretty reliably with the people that we've worked with, that we continue to work. We have clients that work with our trainers now that do this, but I've done this for 20 years. I could reliably get someone's metabolism to go up by 500 calories a day, with two days a week of strength training. Now you're burning 500 more calories a day, but you're not doing an hour of intensive crazy workout. You're just burning more calories, much, much better approach. And with the diet strategy, I'm not going into the diet thinking I need to cut so many calories to lose weight. I'm thinking, how can I feed this adaptation? How could I build this muscle? So now it looks more like a high protein diet. I'm feeding myself when I'm hungry, sticking to whole natural foods, because they don't want to overeat, because processed foods will encourage that. But I'm also not trying to start myself. So I'm going to feed my body and try to build into the body. - Let's do a more positive way to look at it too, for feeding the body and going to get nutritious food as opposed to this math you're going to play in that calorie burn kind of game where it's like, oh no, I ate this and now I have to go run this. It's like this punishment for the amount of calories that were off on your diet. Now we have to equate for that. - Also consider this. If we had a person that is listening right now that feels like I really need to get started on my health and fitness journey and I need to lose 30 or 40 pounds, I would make the argument that that person who's thinking that way, if they were to add 10 pounds of muscle, which would make the scale go up and not lose any weight, they would look better than if they lost 10 pounds off the scale. - Right. - So think about that too. So not only is it advantageous metabolically to your point, but I even think you would look better adding 10 pounds to that same quote unquote fat body that you feel so fat or you don't like the way you look and feel. Adding 10 pounds of pure muscle to that body versus just losing 10 pounds on the scale. So not only is it metabolically advantageous. - Which one would you contribute more fat? - Right. - Which it would be easier to go in that direction for you discipline wise, right? 'Cause you're feeding the body when it needs a nourishing it versus taking away from it being catabolic. You'll look better, you'll feel better and then you'll also speed up the cataclysm. - One method requires one hour of exercise, intensive calorie burning exercise every day. So one hour a day versus two 45 minutes to one hour workouts a week. One of them speeds up your metabolism. The other one requires you to burn them manually. One of them you feed your body to build. The other one you starve your body to lose. Much better, more sustainable approach. But then we need to talk about the mentality. 'Cause here's a deal. The mentality drives all of this. If you don't get the mentality going into this right, you will end up with poor results, poor sustainability or in a dysfunctional state. So let's get to that for a second. So this is something that I've talked about before and I've organized it into something that I think is catchy that I think people can kind of identify with. That kind of communicates to this mentality that we get into when we're trying to change how we look and feel through diet and exercise. And so it kind of looks like this, right? Average person finally decides, I'm gonna do something about the way I look or the way I feel. And typically it starts with this like, man, I feel gross or overweight or inadequate. Or I don't like the way I look in that picture. Or somebody said something to me or I'm tired of feeling this way, type of deal. Then they shift into the mentality of a tyrant. And a tyrant, they become this tyrant that then tyrannizes this other part of them. So the tyrant says, your fat, go to the gym. You can't eat that food, how dare you. Go train hard, I can't believe you're so indisciplined. You need to do this, make it happen no matter how you feel. And so you tyrannize yourself into producing these behaviors that you think are beneficial. And so when people offer you food, that's off your diet. It's like, no, I can't have that, which is an interesting thing to say. I can't, it's like, what do you mean you can't? You do or you don't. Can't is like, who's telling you you can't, right? Or you go to the gym and you work out so hard that you can't walk two days after or you feel like you're gonna throw up and you leave. And even though you feel like garbage, you say to yourself, great work out. That was a great work out. Why? Because this person, I'm tyrannizing deserves punishment. So it feels cathartic. So you get into this mental state of tyrannizing yourself. You're the tyrant. And then there's another side of you that's the tyrannized. And here's what happens eventually. Eventually, you start to identify more with the tyrannized than you do with the tyrant. And what does someone do when they feel like they're being tyrannized for a long period of time? - They rebel. - They rebel. - They rebel. - Yes. - They rebel. And this is why when you go off your diet, you don't just go off a little bit. You go way off your diet. It's like you're giving yourself the middle finger. It's like, no, I'm not just gonna have one cookie. I'm having the whole damn sleeve of Oreos. No, I'm not skipping one workout. I'm not going back for months. Like I'm done. I'm off this whatever. And so you rebel. And this is why people swing so hard in one direction or the other. By the way, there's another direction that this can also turn into. It's a much smaller percentage of people. Most people end up rebelling. But there's a very small percentage of people that go in another dysfunctional direction. And most of them work in the fitness industry. And this is not the rebel. This is the robot. This is the person that becomes orthorexic with their diet. Who's workouts, they never miss no matter what's going on. Who says things like food is fuel. Food is fuel. That's all it is. I work out no matter what. It's all about discipline. I'll never skip. This is my life type of deal. And on the outside, they look very fit and healthy, but on the inside, they're quite dysfunctional and healthy. And again, we know a lot of these people. And I've struggled with this myself. So the solution to this is to change the mentality, which is I'm not tyrannizing myself. I am somebody who is worthy of being cared for. I need to take care of myself. Why? Because I deserve to be cared for, because I'm a human being. So what's that going to look like? And what that ends up looking like is balance. Workouts are more appropriate. Nutrition is more balanced. There are going to be those occasional times. You go out and enjoy food with your friends. And it's OK. Because right now, it's not about eating something healthy. It's about hanging out with my friends. But most of the time, I'm probably going to eat healthy. And sometimes I work out so hard. Sometimes, man, I'm tired of stress. I think my workout needs to be a little easier or I need to take the day off. And you develop a relationship with diet and exercise where you're-- enjoy it because it's caring for yourself and it's very, very balanced. And that mentality has to be the starting point and it has to continuously be worked on. Otherwise, you end up in a bad situation. Going back to the rebellious part and you talking about that being like this mentality, right, of being tyrannized and then you, then you rebel from that. What did you say to? There's also a physiological thing that's happening too. So it's not just the mentality, which I think we agree is a big piece of that. But even the physiological part of this is what happens when you deprive your body of calories for such a long period of time, your body's natural signals of like we got to eat. I remember going through this when competing and you'd be in a deficit for a long period of time, you've dreamed about food. All right, all I thought about after the competition was like, I am going to eat this and I'm going to eat that. And it's like all of a sudden you start fantasizing about that. But I think part of that too isn't just the mentality of like I'm telling myself I can't have these things. It's also the physiological side going like, you haven't had it. We like calories. You want calorie dense foods because you're going so low, you're not eating to nourish your body. You're not eating in a balanced way. You're eating in this crazy deficit. And then you're also go too far. Me mean yes, many times pushing the body. So the body is screaming at you. A lot of calories. A lot of calories. There's two parts of that one is you can definitely go too far where you're starving yourself and pushing yourself too hard in your workouts where they're excessive. They're not beneficial. And I think that's hard to gauge, Sal, because results come slow. And so what ends up happening is a lot of times people start off with this deficit or start off with a little bit of cardio. And a week goes by and they only see one pound move or no pounds move. So what do they do? They ramp it up and they'll throttle down. Well, instead of an hour cardio, we come into two hours a cardio week instead of eating a 500 calorie deficit. I'm going to go a thousand calories. Your diet and your exercise routine should improve the quality of life. That's it. So if your quality of life is not being improved, if it's like this is dreadful, this sucks. I hate this life sucks. I can't move. I'm too sore. Oh my god. I'm dreaming about food all the time. It's not benefiting you. You should feel better. Through this process, you should feel better. As an effective trainer and coach, you learned this over the years. Like, wow, the more my clients enjoy this, the better the results come in the more consistent they are. They stick around. Yeah. So you should definitely, it should improve the quality of your life, regardless of what's happening in your life, which this is why your workouts and diet change throughout the whole period. You know, workouts aren't going to look the same all the time. Sometimes they're going to be, you can't train hard. Same thing with diet. There's going to be times you're on vacation. And I'm not eating perfect. This is where the robots, by the way, freak out, right? Put them on vacation. Watch what happens. All of a sudden, they're stressed out because they can't count every macro. Right. But they don't have a gym. You know, that's right next to them. So this mentality aspect is very important. But it's also important to know here. Look, you are going to feel some hunger. Yeah. You are going to have some temptations and directions that want to bring you back to kind of how you live before. And that's just because you're changing things. Like if you're used to eating lots of heavily processed foods and you switch to whole natural foods, whole natural foods isn't going to excite your brain like the other stuff does. It's going to be a big contrast. If you're in any kind of a calorie deficit, even if it's a minor one consistently, you might get a little hungry. But it's different when I'm feeling a little hunger, but I'm doing it because I'm caring for myself very different than when I feel a little hunger and I'm telling myself, how don't you dare? Don't even think about eating food right now. Like you're fat or whatever. Like good luck with that. At some point, you're going to, again, you're going to give yourself the middle finger and you're going to be able to do that. Well, that's the thing. That's the challenge is to stick with it. Like I'll not end of the spectrum versus the other one is like to double down, to throttle down, to like add more. And it's like, you know, the real discipline is to just trust in the fact that like this is, you know, benefiting my body the most and building and the building part, you can have to wait for that transition really to kick in. I was thinking more to the mentality piece. I think that this is so important that the self awareness kicks in here too. Like because to your point during this process, when these, you'll start to notice when these cravings and patterns and behaviors happen. And if you're, if you don't approach it with through that lens of like, I'm trying to learn about my own behaviors or appear into that because I think at least in my experience, I don't think I've ever had a client that was, you know, overweight by 30 plus pounds that didn't have a lot of behavioral things that they didn't see before that when you start to restrict, they start to reveal themselves like, Oh, wow, I noticed that every time I have a rough day at work, I want to do this thing. You know, I want to do this. Or every time my wife and I are kind of getting into it, I kind of want to do this thing. Or, wow, I can't have dinner and not feel like I need to go have a second serving or I can't have dinner and not feel like I have to have a dessert. It's like, or man, every time I walk past that peanut jar, I have to go like, you have to peer into all that to start to unpack and unlock all these behavioral things that you have going on and then find ways to work on and change that. Otherwise, you know, it'll all rear its head. It'll all come back and, you know, you can, you can white knuckle it for, you know, so long before all that stuff. Well, I just want people to know like this. We're talking about is how we coach people. Yeah. It took us all, I would say probably to each of us a good eight to ten years. And then after that, I'm just, listen, this is 100% your guys. My success strategy and Justin and Adam are the same. Our success strategy when we figured this out with our coaches went through the roof. Like ten years into my career, most of my clients became consistent and still haven't stopped. The first half of my career, most of my clients were not consistent and we couldn't figure this out. So it's very, it's a very successful strike. This is how we coach our coaches and trainers here at Mind Pump. This is how they work with people. So it really does work. And I have no, there are no other ways that I've seen that will give you success. Yeah, let's turn it over. There's more lifers. That's right. Even my personal journey is, is changed a lot through this lens. I think that I think we're all, we're all on this spectrum, right? Like maybe I'm not the full tyrant and don't totally tyrannize myself, but I'm certainly a guilty of somewhat of that. And I'm certainly guilty. I can connect and relate to that rebellious, you know, rebellion sitting down and eating a whole thing of ice cream. It's just like, what, what am I doing? I can have ice cream any time I want. It's like, what, what, what is that? Right? So I think I think we're all, and just because maybe I don't ever let it go as far as maybe some, some other people that struggle with it. Does it mean that I'm immune to it or I don't struggle with it? Also, I think we're all somewhere on this spectrum. And it's taken me a long time, probably almost into my forties to really find that nice balance of not allowing the pendulum to really swing hard anywhere and trying to find that even balance and of both exercise and diet. It just doesn't neither looks really extreme anymore. It looks like a much healthier balance of eating, eating when I like out of balance every once in a while, but then not going out of control. I had a conversation with one of our, one of our clients here at MindPump. So we have, we have trainers that work with people and everyone wants to want to hop on calls and I love doing it. It just reminds me of why I love training people so much. But now I was going to call with someone and we were having this very conversation. And I said, why are you afraid that if you don't tyrannize yourself, that you're just going to run in the opposite direction? And she said, yes. Yeah. And I said, look, I get it. Like I know, if you're in that position, you're like, look, if I don't, if I don't hammer down on myself, I know what I'll do. I'll binge or I'll go in this crazy direction. I said, look, first off, it's not working for you because you're still doing that. Yeah. I said, but you may, you may run a little bit in the other direction, but we have to get to this other place. And so the truth is for somebody feeling this, yeah, you might have to switch gears and you might find if you don't tyrannize yourself suddenly, you feel like you have this like freedom to like go off a little bit and you may go off a little bit, but you'll bring yourself back. You'll bring yourself back and it won't be this wild swing. And then you'll develop a relationship with this where, you know, exactly the way I feel it's gone for me personally. Exactly. Exactly. It used to be this dramatic swings in my 20s. And then the swings got a little bit smaller and then smaller. And then it's very, very subtle now. That's right. And now what it looks like is I can come off of a week vacation where I enjoy myself. I may be able to get one or two workouts in and more just like active golf, things like that. You know, we, we all are eating whatever we want, having nice drinks, but I'm not splurging or overdoing it's just this nice. And then here I'm back to Monday, meals are prepped ready to go. Yeah. Packed in psych and I didn't put on any real weight. I didn't feel like I fell out of shape. I could just they looked these very real and it feels so much better. But it's taking me along, even myself personally a long time to get speaking of breaks. I, so because we were gone, which I'll talk about that, I hadn't used ketone IQ for almost a week and a half, right? Because we were up in Arizona last the week before then we were gone for a week. Yeah. And you know, when you use something consistently and then you stop and then you use it again, it's high. I always know if something works. Like dude, I came to you in that. So I haven't used it for like a week and a half, right? And typically I use like two a day, especially when I'm here. This morning I took one before I went to get my hair cut. It's lit up. Oh, bro. Yeah. So clear. I tell you I always know what it's so short. So short. So short. It really works to me is like I can never tell like just starting to guess why I'm always hesitant when someone asks when you feel yeah, it's like it's when I stop it and then I come back to it again and then I feel like, okay, now I can tell the difference. So you notice a huge difference. Oh, dude, clear, like mental energy sharpness. It's so different from caffeine. And I totally noticed it because I had stopped for a little while. So anyway, had a great time by the way. I was out. We were out in Yellowstone. I saw some of your videos, all the bears and stuff. So you actually went to that spot where you could feed the bears. So you can, that's crazy. Okay, so there's a place called, I didn't know that. There's a place called Bear World. (laughing) It's like somewhere in like Florida where they do like, it was like crocodile. (laughing) I thought it was the nudist colony. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You do have a chance to see it. No, it was near, so we flew into Idaho Falls. So it was kind of like in that area. And you drive your car through, so there's two places, so it's a part with rides. So there's actually kids rides. But the main part is you drive your car through. Yeah. Like, there's grizzly bears just walking around. Grizzly bears. Grizzly bears. And black bears. I mean, they gotta be more lazy. They're just walking around, they come up to your car. They're like, keep your windows closed. I'm like, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, crap. You're like, you know, put my window. But they'll walk up to your car, they'll walk around. They're scratching their backs on the trees. They're like, you know, moping around. And of course the kids are like, they're cute. And like, don't open the door kids. Yeah, it'll, so you drive through slowly. And there's just grizzly bears and black bears everywhere. Then there's this part with rides. And then there's a separate thing that you could pay for where they take you on this, I don't know what you would call it. It's like a big tram, like car or whatever. And you go up on these steps, you're high. And then the bottom part of it is all like protected. So their bears can't reach you. And they give you food. And they pull up and you throw the food over and just feed the bears. Why is this so easy? What the worst idea. Well, they're not wild. They're all in kept, they're all in mess. The grizzly bears and the black bears cohabitate. They can do that. Oh, they keep them separate. Oh, guys, I didn't think they could. I figured like, them grizzly bears probably eat them black bears. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. But we were feeding them and dude, the bears are like hilarious because obviously they get fed all the time. So they'd walk up to the, to the tram or whatever. And they'd come up on like two legs like dog. I did. They catch up the mountain. Like, it's going on. Wow. It's like real closet and down. So I've never been to yosun. And yosun's definitely on my list to go there. So you guys went in through Idaho. So we, we, yeah, it was a long travel because her brother drove from Vegas. So the last time I went, we flew into Bozeman, which is closer. We had to go to Idaho Falls, which is a regional airport. So you have to take two planes. Then you have to drive an hour and a half to where we stayed in Island Park, which is 30 minutes away from the park. So that was the long travel. Okay. So that's not how you would do it if you were just a jet. That's not what I did last time. So how would you suggest to do it to go into the Bozeman? That was the Bozeman. Yeah. It was, yeah, and you stayed there and that's what we did last time. But anyway, we went into the West Eddens and yosun was crazy, dude. Like we, at one point, we went to the Grand Pairs Maddox. So that's those like those pools of water that are. Oh, that's a cool color. It's really crazy. Yeah. A bison just walked right through everybody like onto the walkway. Bro, he was like, we're dugous. That's how close he was. Like just chilling with you guys. Just chilling. Now, everybody's like, oh, look at the cute dumb bison. And I've seen videos. Yeah. You see people get lost. You yelling at my kids? Get up. Get your house. My daughter's trying to get close. I'm getting back here. Trying to keep everybody better. Because I've seen videos of bison launching people in the air. It's not a Disney movie. No, but it looks so cute. And they're not going to do anything. I'm like, no, do that thing. It's a pile of muscle. Yeah. But he walked right in front of us. Like, it was the longest time. Those things are huge, huge, bro. I pulled up a video of one like pushing a car over. Yeah, then in Moose, they surprise you when you're in person. I didn't see a moose. We want to see a moose out there. No, a bull moose is pretty hard to see. I think it was a hard to see. Well, I mean, when I was in Jackson Hole, I was from here to Justin from one. A bull moose? Yeah. Yeah. That'll launch you too with baby too. But they were. Oh my god. That's dangerous. Yeah. But I mean, I was on the path. Just walking around the little courtyard. We're all kinds of people who are out. Just, I mean, I wasn't going to mess with it for sure. You know what I'm saying? And I had like a little like this little, it was like a walkway with like a fence. A fence that would not stop him if he wanted to. But at least made me feel like there's something separating us. I guess it's a big deer, right? It's in the same family. I mean, giant. Well, yeah, I know. Yeah. But they're in the tourist for going and people's yards. I mean, eating like this, you go deer, elk. And then because it's because elk are like giant deer. And then moose are like moose doesn't even look right. Like a like an elk looks big in person. A moose is just a. I've seen a stack of tank. I saw a moose a long time ago. Far away and it looked. It didn't look right. It looked like a dinosaur. Like that's the big. Yeah, they even though they're big. Yeah, they're huge. So yeah, it was great. It was a super great trip. And then my son, my five-year-old caught a fish. Oh, really? His uncle took him fishing. Stoke. And, you know, he's like, you know, wheeling it in or whatever. It's so important to catch it. Yeah. Is it doing that? Yeah. Oh, there you go. Did I do it right there? It goes deer. What's in between there? Between the deer and elk. Oh, yeah. I can get this thing to clear out here. Oh, a caribou. Yeah, the caribou. It goes deer, caribou, elk, moose. Moose. Yeah, but look how big the moose is compared. Looks like it just dwarfs the rest of them. But you caught a fish and we could be good in everything. Now, every day did you, so did you ever, did you guys just hang out at the house? Or did you guys go in every, every time and go? Most of the days we went out and did something. Yeah. But one day we went to the moose because the kids were tired. So we just took them to movies. We watched Toy Story 5. Oh, Max and Katrina went. It was cute. I love the idea of the villain being the iPad. It was one of those movies. Do you guys remember when Wally first came out? Remember Wally? And how it kind of made you uncomfortable because it was a little too much truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is kind of hitting home. Yeah, Toy Story 5. Bro, listen to this. Like the kids all on their electronics and not playing with each other? Yeah. It was a little too like. So Katrina took Matt. So we were up in Trucke with all of our family friends and stuff like that. And I've openly talked about this. This is one of the unique things that I think we do with Max. That's different than my friends is he gets no iPad, right? So he hasn't had an iPad for well over a year or two now. And they all get them. And they all with Toy Story 5 together with all the moms. Oh. Right? So they all go watch it. And so Katrina and I were talking about this after her. She goes, it was so crazy. We went and watched that. And she goes, it was so great. She goes, it's everything we talk about with the iPad and this and that. So the story lines great. And she goes, literally, we come back to the house. And all the kids grabbed their iPads. And it was like no effect. Yeah, like no effect. It was like, oh my gosh, you just watched that. And no effect on the parents enough to be like that. Like you said, you hit close up. Now I didn't see it, but I know the storyline. And I know that the main villain is the iPad. And then the whole idea is that the kids are now all on their iPads in a same room with each other. No one plays with the toys anymore, right? I'm assuming that's what's right. And so like there's one, there's a scene where this little girl, she gets her first like. It's not an iPad, but it's like a starter type one, like a leap frog type of deal. Yeah. So she gets it and all the toys are like, what's going on? She's not paying attention to us and she just glued to it. But then there's a part is really, really makes your heart hurt where she, she's trying to make friends. So she's like kind of needs friends. So she messages through the app, through the thing her friends. And then they tease her through it. And you know, like the things that actually happened with messaging and stuff. And she's this little girl and I was like, oh, my heart was breaking free. Yeah. When I see stuff like that, when I get emotional. Well, one of my, one of my friends has, they, even though they haven't eliminated it, they have dramatically reduced them out and they've connected the dots to the difference in his, like my Godson's behavior. And so they've noticed a, a notice a big difference. And they had a, they had a hard time this week because they've been really pushing to do that. But he still has it. And then the other kids have theirs. And so they're like, man, like they're letting their kids get on it right first thing in the morning. And normally we don't let him get on his. And but then he's coming to us like, mom, dad, everybody's on their iPad. I can I get mine. And so they felt, they felt terrible. And so they would give in and let him do it. Max, Max came in. It's so funny because Max has to help him with forever. And he asks just because all the kids were on it. No. Yeah. Okay. We know he asks he knows you know, we saved that stuff for like when we're on a plane or a long car ride. Like that's where we start to kind of use it. And I think it could be valuable because you know, especially when I'd be, which one talked to your wife. Mm hmm. But yeah, dude, that movie was like, you, you, you could see it. You could see him kids, you know? Oh, yeah. I like the opposite experience. So I was like hanging out. I spent a good amount of time with Everett just me and him. So we got to spend some good quality time. But it was the opposite because I was like being stretched a lot more in terms of freedom. And allowing him to venture and do things a little outside my comfort zone a little bit. And you know, so I had him like set up on my, my e-bike and my other friend, his, his kids actually, you're younger. And so it was like, I'm like, okay, he's a little bit younger. So, you know, maybe they're not going to be as wild and crazy and like. And so not the case, but, you know, it started out well, like so I at least was like, okay, I'll be comfortable with this. If, you know, I go, I went and rented a bike for myself and then he had a bike. And so we all kind of like went on this tour of like, here's the roads. And here's the beach access. And like, here's the kind of the areas that I was like, okay, with. And like, you know, traffic wise, like, and we went all the signals and everything else and all that. And so we're kind of going through all that. And it was fun having a good time and all that. And then it's like, okay, they just want to go out on their own, you know, and I'm like, [CLEARS THROAT] Yeah, all right, like, you know, keep your phone on you and like we could obviously we could see like where they're going and whatnot and then You know one of the days they just like they went so far they ended up like In some farm and they're like they found some like Pump track where they're like jumping it and stuff and like I had to like fix the bike We wouldn't pick them up And pick them up, but it's like dude so memorable for them. They're like just you know beside themselves Because they're having so much fun is like you know, it was just it was a struggle a bit for me because too, you know like Courtney was with You know Ethan at his competition, and so we were kind of split with all this and And I know she has more of an issue with like I'm like nothing can happen Another time not this time you know, I guess my response is like when you're an older brother You're sibling you turn yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll scrub it out. I'm so so curious on how I'm gonna handle that phase I was with my buddy. It's funny. You're bringing up the e-bike and letting them go because this is what my buddy Mike and I were talking about Literally yesterday we're sitting down and just chopping up this his son is 12 or 13 and he's got one of those really fast e-bikes, you know now like the motorcycle dirt bike ones or whatever and They go they go really fast real fast. Yeah, you get pulled. They'll take those bikes Yeah, yeah, if you don't have if it's a class above is like class three, they'll take them so he's so he had to he did this He's registered it in another state so he could drive it because he could their illegal in California these a license Yes, so he's got these right and He's like he grew up over here, right and he remembers when he was a kid like he just had free rain go wherever Yeah, and he's like man, I have such a hard time with let him now as a parent. Yeah I know my boy, so we're like talking it out like I'm the same way too my parents We they well they don't have a choice they couldn't they couldn't stalk us. They couldn't track us No, that's that's the choice. That's the part that's crazy like we have a No, hours of not know we have we have we have just come back at this time We have air pods and phones and watches and and So much and we know it's safer like so logically you go it's safer now You have more trackable things than you have before why do I struggle so much with allowing that freedom Because it's in her was too aware of all the dangers and the fear but you but you we all know that it's not It's it's less and yet we we don't want and so he even really he was weird talking about and I now I have the kid who's little I'm not faced with it so it's real easy for me to say oh man come on just let him go Right right, but I've seen too many of my buddies that have feel that same way and then they get that to that age and then they're like It's weird dude. I mean yeah, so I logically in my head I hear Justin top of that I hear Mike time. I'm like dude just let him go I'm always new because he's the baby too. Yeah, it's like it's not my oldest It's like I a little bit different with the oldest and then him is like you kind of want to keep him you know like Yes little kid and it's like you can't yeah It's Katrina look at me all crazy this weekend because I I was already so I don't know if you saw we got max one of those big wheels Right, yeah, and he's like he's into it. That's awesome. Oh, like finally he's into like a thing like that He's all about it and I'm like I'm already and so Hunter and Jojo so my buddy's kids are eight and nine and I'm like hey, let's let's encourage him to just go, you know, let him ride the whole neighborhood and just you know Yeah, I have to give the oldest the walkie-talkie and say yeah, it's safe in like enclosed place and trucky Everyone drives their cars slow in there and she's like you tripping. He just started riding this thing You like you see even like no way and I'm like I mean we got a kid that we were six I pulled up my old neighborhood just cuz so this this topic was all about this So it's funny you went this way because this was a topic all week for us We're gonna like and I'm like so yeah It was no it was third third and fourth grade It's third and third and fourth. What is that 70? Yeah, it's third third and fourth grade and it was about a two mile walk And it did cut the cross a four lane road to get there And I you know and and you know, I think back like so To like those things like that's crazy and probably the part that I think I worry about more than the danger is just how naive you are as a kid Yeah, cuz I do remember two times that I got huge trouble Because even though I was told a million times come straight home from school do this I You know ran into a friend on the way and like hey come over just got the new Zelda Yeah, you know, I'm like okay, and you're just thinking your head as a kid You're thinking I'm sure if I go back I beg of I yeah, yeah, and and and that quick little stop by his house turned at two hours Yeah, and my mom waiting for me to be home and like freaked out called the cops and all this stuff So I think I worry more about just my son being naive like that more than I feel like the danger You know saying it's weird. It's all it's a lot of it's on our head But the truth is part of the reason this people are gonna like this but statistically speaking they're safer It's safer to it. Here's why it's also safer kids are out less So kidnappings are down. Well, yeah, cuz kids are harder kidnapped because they're not like they used that's the interesting Don't alone cuz here's because this is what I told think about it like think about if you go back into the 80s And you're a kidnapper there's kids everywhere Yeah, and there's no parents watching them is true in the 80s when we were out It's harder because kids are not everywhere and their parents Don't like ice cream as much so statistically speaking that's one of the reasons why my buddy got oh my god His wife right before we went on the trip this happened and so she was like she was like not speaking to him for like a week She was so angry at him because he'd been having him walk home from school and she had no idea Oh, because they both work and sometimes he's with a patient still and they only live two blocks two and a half blocks or so from the school And so he's been doing it and then other times when he can't go home He's got a his work is Across the main road and about four blocks away And so he'll sometimes they'll tell his son like hey just start walking towards my work And then I'll meet you at the main stoplight, but don't cross the main cell He'd been doing this with his kid for like months and she had no idea she found out and oh my god She freaked out on him like that and he's like Nobody's gonna kidnap our son and she's like are you kidding me? You let him out there's so many cars so many so many can pick him up Like have you ever sat in the car with our kid for five minutes? That kid never would bring that shit bring our kid back so fast That was this argument back You have no way You know the shit I said kidnap within five minutes that kid never dropped that kid right off Yeah, it's welcome every day. I remember one time we actually got chased by a homeless guy He was throwing bottles at us like it was wild did we would go through like horse trails and like you know I almost got bit by a rattlesnake my sister all kinds of stuff my sister almost got kidnapped my sister was walking home And I'm not making this up a dude pulled up in a van Yeah, open the door and he's like hey, do you want to come play? I have kittens here and I'm my sister Wow my mom told her if anybody ever said so my sister ran away and Told us about it and she was like but literally a dude literally is like here coming my van play with my my cats. Yeah Oh my god Oh, I know so that's funny that you say you saw that because one of the things I speculated with my buddy Mike was like, you know I know it's safer all the stats blah blah blah, but I you know you grew I said you grew up here 20 plus years ago 25 plus years ago when this was like mostly farmland and there was it was a slow town I said now it's not it's it's normal to walk outside and see a homeless person or a crazy person talking to themselves We didn't see I didn't see that as a kid. Yeah, it's a lot more prevalent Yeah, I just say so I think so there's a part of that's in the back of your head too like it's not weird for me I mean I was just driving to work the other day and somebody was like right in the middle of a four lane like main road Just walking down the diagonally and yelling at cars. You know, I'm saying like You just I don't I don't remember seeing at least I don't remember seeing that as a kid and so now thinking like having a kid and going like Oh, man, I would that would freak me out my kid cross-past I don't know man I think back to when I was younger and I'm like let's say 12 or 13 and I'd go off with my friends We did a lot of stuff that if I as a parent now I'd be like that is dangerous We did a lot of stuff. Yeah, of course that was terribly never knew about it And we were gone. Yeah, my mom was like come back up be back at five for dinner. Okay, and we're gone hours Just disappeared. She had no idea where it was now and we were doing things that were like yeah, yeah Not good, but maybe that's that's probably half of what also makes you just like yes You a lot of the stuff that I was doing But you know the other side of it. I was just talking with My niece and my daughter about this the day is we would do things and nobody could film it and post it Yeah, thank God, I know because now kids are like super hyper aware that oh if I you know someone's gonna fill You know take a picture of me post this and was gonna share it like thank God nobody had a camera and we were out there Anyway, I wasn't asking guys so we've been now Using the super patch for a while have you guys been using any them consistently? Yeah, I haven't been consistent this last week Because we just came off of vacation But I was using the pain one for a while because of my and I told you it it I'm it brings it down from like I said like an eight two of five I was talking to my buddy about this He's an ER physician And of course you looked at me like is this like He told him that What is this bro and now and he he trust me so I'm like listen I said here I sent him a studies, I said, "Look at the studies, like the study on the pain patch." By the way, these are controlled studies. These are published peer reviewed. It's equivalent to Advil. It's equivalent to taking an inset. That's how effective the pain. There's no medicine. It's not transdermal. It's all based off of haptic, what's called haptic technology. The sleep one is wild. Put the sleep one on track, your sleep. Watch what happens to your REM. Yeah. It increases. So I did the sleep when we were testing it. But I haven't been consistent with it. I did it enough to test it. I use it every night. Yeah, and I will track it with my ore, and it wasn't proving it. It's wild. I still have it. It's a new science. It's a new science. It doesn't remind you of when we got when they dropped the red light there. I feel like the same way. I was like, "So get out of here. Get out of here with this BS." But I can't argue with actual data. Like, and these are just like 15 or 16 peer reviewed. The one that won me over was the pain one, being equivalent. How many times have you guys taken Advil? Yeah. When you have a little bit of. Every day last week. Yeah, I know. And so it's like if you take Advil and use it for things, especially when you're chronic pain, low back stuff the other day. Like, if you have stuff like that going on, it's like, and you would take it in Advil, like, why would you not take a patch? All the studies are showing that it's equivalent to that, and you're not having to take something. Like, way better. Way better, right? For sure. Anyway, I got to tell you guys, like, one of my favorite segments in social media world right now, have you guys seen the videos of Europeans? Yes. Because you're here for the world of FIFA, yeah. And how much they love America? I love it. I know. I love it. It's so great. It's a good reminder. It's a great reminder. Like, there's videos of people in like AC because they have air conditioning. So like, it's so hot. I come inside and it's so cool. You don't know what it's like. And they're talking about how, like, they don't have air conditioning, you know, where they're at. I saw it. I saw it. Re-fills when they're drinking. Brother, there's this one of times. He's the time. He's the time. He's the time. He's the time. This is a tie-in dude, and he gets a coke. And he's like, I cannot believe he's like, it's free. I don't pay for five of them. These two guys were at like a barbecue place and they're eating ribs. And he was like, about to eat it with his fork and knife. And then the door comes over. No, no, no, no. You guys eat it with your hands. They're like, what? They didn't know what to do. And they're like, eat it. Like, I've never had meat that like falls off the bone. Like, they're tripping out. Yeah. There was a craving about it. There was a couple of them went shooting and they were just tripping. You could just like, you just like, you just stuff. Like this is a big thing. It has to be like, yeah, if you're going to visit America, you have to do that. I didn't even think about that for Europeans coming over here for a guy. Oh, yeah. One guy. They're so not allowed to have guns. There's this one British guy. He's got a great videos. And he's like, oh, and they go into Walmart and they freak out. But like, you can't see the end of the store. Is it because I saw the target ones? All the chicks that were like, so pumped. Oh, yeah. There's ones of the girls that are like, oh my God, target. The everyone was all excited about target. And it's so good to hear as American because there's so much media so focused on how to make a negative stuff. And you even see some of the videos people are saying like, man, our media lies. They said this and the other, but I love it here. Yeah. Which is pretty cool to hear as an American. No. To see that kind of stuff. That's really cool. Hey, did you guys see that? I meant to tell you too that I don't know how much you guys were on if you were on it social. Because I posted a little bit on on max of stuff. But my buddy, I have to give him some love, dude. He's the teacher of the group and the friends. And he was the one last year that put on the whole talent show for the kids. Oh, yeah. So this year was the trucky games. Did you see it? I saw it. Oh, yeah. So he split all of us. He split. Oh, what was the names, dude? I don't know where he came up with these names for all of us. But he split all the kids and all the adults up. And there was three teams. We had color bandanas on. There was a whole, he made a whole PowerPoint video with music for the kids to watch. So you get everybody all hyped up before. And then the game, I-- I saw my brother would do-- And I was really nervous. I told him, because I knew he was doing something. I didn't know what. And I know how my son's not, you know, he's not competitive. And so I was really worried that he was going to like not want to do it. And when he got announced, he had this moment. This is where we're at now. We've gotten to a stage where we don't cry, but I can tell when he wants to cry. And he's like regulating his motions. And so he did the whole video. All the kids are hyped. I'm hyped. And I'm looking in the corner of my son. And he can see him just like, no, just watching it. And so everyone kind of finished. And my buddy, I think my buddy sees it, tries to hype up my son. And my son's not feeling it at all. And then he just gets up and he walks over into the master bedroom over there and just goes in there. And Katrina looks at me and I'm like, give him a few minutes. And so a few minutes I walk in there. And he's laid down in his bed. It's like the middle of the day. I'm like, what are you doing, buddy? He's like, oh, I'm just going to take a nap. But we take a nap for a dude. He's like, oh, I'm just going to take a nap for a little bit. And so I'm like, you know what? I'm not even going to push because if I push into it, it's going to make it more emotional. Just see if he gets himself out of it. If I walk back out and I tug of a tree, I'm like, he's laying down. He's fine. He's laying down. And she went in a few minutes later and just talked to him and said, and she, I don't know if I remember you talked a long time ago, we're really consistent with like the affirmations. You're brave. You're strong. Yeah. You're a leader. And so it was a great opportunity for Katrina. She reiterated that to him. You know, these are the reasons why we say this is we, you know, we believe that you're a leader. We believe those things. And one day you'll believe it too. Like, totally, like, got himself together, went out, did it, had a blast. One, like two of the events and did really good. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So it was a really cool moment to watch this. Oh, man, you're getting me choked. Oh, yeah, it was great. Yeah, no, it was cool to see one. It was cool to see him. Go through that challenge. Yeah, to see him one, not default to crying because that's like a year ago we would have been crying and like, just I don't want to do it and like making a thing like that. It was like, you could tell he didn't want to. You could tell that he was going to, he was going to take, you know, you know, take care of his emotions, gather himself, still do it. Katrina kind of had that little talk with them and then he ends up having a great time. So it was the, the caffeinated koalas, the feral goldfish and the unstable hamsters. Yeah. Those are all those are all the names that we did. He did. He came up with this, this cup stacking relay thing. So it was just red cups that you had a stack. And then, and then one of the, and then the kids had a wrap, a whole roll of toilet paper all the way, a mummify, a parent was one. They did the, you know, our upstairs balcony down to the jacuzzi. They put a bunch of red cups and you had to drop ping pong balls. It's, yeah, they were like perfect. They were like, you know, it was like a bean bag toss into the buckets that we have out there. And so, yeah, they were all like really good like fun that. Chewable for their kids. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I was so worried of like, man, we, we, we make my son do a bunch of stuff where he's going to get his ass whipped and everything like that. Like, it's not going to, it's going to be so hard to convince him to do anything. Totally. So it was like so, so perfect. And it was a cool moment to watch like him go through that whole cycle and then to be able to experience that. And then I was like, oh man, maybe there's, maybe, you know, you know what I want to hear about? I want to hear about Justin's note on the guy that injected the cement to himself. Because I see, I see this note up there. I like to throw some chaos. And while we're talking, I just keep seeing this note. And I'm like, I don't like a kid nodding. I'm going to bring this up because Justin might not. Because Justin won't find a transition. He doesn't speak of that. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of kids, I'm definitely not a good change. Irony is like, I found out. I don't really care. Bro, Steven. Yeah. So what is this? So this guy, I think he was from Ireland, but like, decided that he had super spunk, if you will. And it was going to heal his back pain. And so just started taking upon himself to collect it, put it in a syringe and inject it like it is arm. What? Oh, God. Because I only recorded cases of so many of you. But I just was like, I didn't know that I was like, this isn't real. Like, no, he's really done that. Like, who would think the life of God? Of course, to be a guy. It's always dudes that you would. I have magical. I mean, yeah, how do you even make that leap? Yeah. Like, what made you go like, oh, this could be a healing heal myself. And then you know, I think that's the whole other level. Because you've heard of people like Drinking pee for like some kind of like weird longevity, like, like, uh, reason science. I'm just kidding. Well, listen, I mean, if you were to desert and you had no water, that'd be one of the ways to hydrate yourself. So I could even see the leap there. Yeah. I cannot see the leap of injecting yourself with your own. He just had this understanding that it was going to get a infection. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It looks like that's his arm. He did it for a long time too. Like, and tell it. Yeah. It's an abscess. Oh, God. So gross. Did it work though? Yeah. He no longer could feel his back pain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He no longer had back pain anymore. Yeah. Hey, I'll tell you, I'll tell you who would do that. If there was anything at all that made it anabolic bodybuilders would be doing. They probably would. Well, yeah. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And is there like somebody online that's like preaching this kind of stuff? You read it from them? Yeah. I was like, 'cause you know, I was just about a whole sunny, you know, this like weird stuff people do. I do. Maybe Google that, Doug. See if there's a. There's a. So Google injecting semen for back pain. (laughing) - Watch AI confirm it. - Watch AI, - It popped you on that. - This website said it really wants to do it. - You click on those right now. - It's going on your bro. - Welcome back. - Yeah. - Speaking of weird stuff, I have to bring this up. This is really interesting. It's not a long conversation, but really interesting. So there's this mushroom, the psychedelic mushroom, that produces a specific type of hallucination, which is really weird. So you think, you would think that hallucinations are individual, but people see the exact same thing. - The shared one. - On this type of mushroom, and it's called, Lamuaya, Asiatica, Asiatica. When they eat it, they see little people everywhere. - What? - Everywhere? - Yeah. They see little tiny people, or known like beings that appear, and they last for 12 to 24 hours, or sometimes stick around for days, and they interact with the objects around you. So if I ate that, I would see little people walking up on the microphone, or climbing up. - This is gotta be where all this folklore comes from, right? - Dude, you know, like all the legends of all these like little sprites. - But it makes you wonder why they're making the same exact thing. - Doesn't make any sense. - Are we like, tapping into like another dimension? - Are they really there? - Well, that's like that DMT, Red Laser Experiment, that everybody is talking about. - I'm so curious about that one. - You're about that, right? - See the matrix. - See numbers. - Yeah. - It's the same numbers everybody sees. - It's the same code. - Yeah. - Like there's an underlying code to everything. - That's the target. - I know, I'm just gonna do that. - Yeah, I won't eat those mushrooms. - Sure be. - No thanks. - What is dose for your liver? So dose for your liver is a clinically-backed liver health supplement. It's not just another capsule or powder. It's a liquid supplement, and if you take it daily, two ounces a tie at a time, so two ounce shot, it tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice, by the way. It cleanses the liver of unwanted stressors that are slowing your liver down. So it promotes healthy liver function. There's no sugar, no junk in there, no calories. So what does this do for you? Will you get more energy? You get better digestion. By the way, dose liver, their liver product has been shown to affect positively effect liver enzymes in real studies. In other words, it really does work. If you want to avoid mid-day crashes, you want to feel better, you want to support liver health, go to dosedaily.co/mimepump. Use the discount code, "Mimepump Get 25% Off" back to the show. (whooshing) - Our first caller is Carolina from New Hampshire. - Hi Carolina. - Hi, you're on in. - Hi, it's me, how are you? - Good morning. Go ahead. I'm gonna start off the way that most people do and say, "I really love your podcast." I just kind of started listening a couple months ago, and I work three, 12 hours shifts Friday through Sunday, so you're basically in my ear for 36 and a half hours a week. - Oh, yeah. - So it's good stuff. I will start by just, I'll just read my question, and I'm gonna update a couple of things just as we go. So I wrote, "I've lost 600 pounds." Yes, you read that right, but not in the way you think. I'm 30 female, five foot five. My current weight is 152, starting weight 340. I have lost and gained over 150 pounds four times. I'm tired of wrecking my body. I've successfully lost the weight again, and I am the smallest I've ever been. I started lifting in January, and I'm loving strength training. I had been eating 1500 calories a day for over 14 months before I found your podcast. Now I'm slowly reverse dieting, which scares the crap out of me. I am up to 1800 calories now, and my weight is stable. I really, really want to do things differently this time. My question, I guess, is how do I not repeat the pattern I've fallen into so many times? I understand how to do the reverse diet, but I'm a little confused on how it actually works. My metabolism is definitely damaged right now. If my weight is stable at 1800 calories, do I keep adding every week? And how are people getting up to 2500 to 2800 calories? Yeah, thank you for being the first thing in 30 years to shift my mindset enough to actually try something different. Carolina, thank you so much for Paul. And I'm so happy that you're saying your mind shift, your mind is shifting and changing. Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you've lost a hundred and fifths, that's a significant amount of weight to lose and gain. I can only imagine the mental state or how you feel about yourself and behaviors are radically different at both ends. Yeah. What are the differences in both of those? Not necessarily the behaviors, like eating and activity, but what's the difference in how you're feeling or what's it like to gain a hundred and lose 150? What's the difference between the two? Well, so I grew up obese. I weigh less now than I did in third grade. So you kind of get to a point where you're used to being invisible, so you don't really, like what's the point in trying for a lot of things? Or for me, like overeating was a way to really feel calm for the only way I could feel calm. But with that comes, you know, you're so full why would you bother exercising? You don't feel like it. And then I had kids. (laughs) So that, you know, really this time around, I'm down 180, 88 pounds, I think right now. But I have a four year old and then 21 month old. And I realized that if I go to the park with them and the baby goes left and my older son goes right, (laughs) what am I gonna do? You know, it's a safety hazard. So I had to try again this time. But I don't know when you're over 300 pounds, you just, your life's just kinda like you don't really try. And now, you know, and it comes slowly, but you start to put more effort in every aspect of your life. You start to enjoy exercise because you're eating well enough that you have the energy to kind of want to do it. And you don't, you don't really hate yourself as much, I guess. - Yeah, I hear that. - Be blind. - I hear that. I heard you say eating made you feel calm in the past. - Yeah, yeah. - When you're on your way up, when you're gaining weight, does that feel like, do you feel like free in that period of time and does it feel restrictive when you're trying to go in the other direction? - Yeah, yeah. It's like, in the past I've been so strict that you finally like relinquish that control that you have. And do whatever you want. But as far as like gaining that much weight, and when I gain, I gain really quickly, like within a year, you kinda just, you're kinda going through the motions and just ignoring it. - Yeah. - Like you know what's happening, obviously, but you just kind of telling yourself you don't care what you do, obviously you do. - Yeah. - Yeah. - No, I totally hear that. What is it about our show that got the mind shift for you? What did you hear us talk about or tell us a little bit about the mind shift that you're experiencing? - Yeah, so what you know how the media is these days, you finish in, but after repeated, you know, 10 hours a week of listening and then, oh, I really liked this, 20, and you know, my whole work week, just having you constantly hammer, fuel your body, build muscle, longevity, over and over and over again, whatever it got it to kinda stick in my head a little bit. - That's great. So is it okay if I challenge how it felt for you to go down and up and maybe the mentality around it? Okay. It's a false feeling of freedom when you're going up. It's actually your in chains, your in bondage. You're in bondage to, you know, moving your body into direction that, you know, was not healthy emotionally and physically. But the reason why you feel free is because when you go the way down, the way you get yourself to go down is you treat yourself like somebody that needs to be held down and controlled. Because if you take the control off, I'm gonna go the other way. - Yeah. - Like if I don't tell myself, you can't have that, how dare you and you better keep this up. And remember what happened last time and you better and you beat yourself up. If I don't do that to myself, I'm gonna go in the other direction. Is that resonate? - Yeah, absolutely. - Yeah. - No wonder it feels so free to stop doing that to yourself. So there is a solution. It's simple but not easy. Okay. So it's simple because it's not true, Carolina. It is not true that for you to maintain a healthy body and behaviors that you need to beat yourself up. That's actually false and we have evidence of that. Do you wanna know what the evidence is? - Yeah. - You escape and you go in the other direction. So it actually doesn't work and it doesn't feel good. And I've never had success with a client who hated exercise and hated eating healthy long. It just doesn't work. So we have to find a way for you to do it. you to actually enjoy doing it. And the only way to do that is for you to switch the paradigm a little bit and treat yourself like you would your own child, which is like, "Hey, I'm going to take care of myself." Yeah. Because otherwise taking care of yourself feels like stop tyrannizing yourself. So we got to stop that. Now, I'm going to just let you know what this will look like. It's going to be, it would be a, it's a scary process. And by the way, at the end of this, I'm going to give you more, more specific advice and maybe some, some directions to go. Okay. But initially, it's scary because you've learned to lose weight through this process of beating yourself up. So initially, when you stop beating yourself up and you start saying, "I'm going to take care of myself a little bit," you test it. And so it looks like a little binging, a little moving in this direction. Oh, okay. Now, I'm going to go back and then I'm going to, and you're going to kind of start to find the balance. It's really important you give yourself grace and don't, uh, river back to beating yourself up because it'll just keep doing what you're doing. What eventually happens Carolina, by the way, I'll just let you know that process eventually people give up and they're like, I'm done beating myself up. I'm done. I'm just going to join my life. That's it. I'm over. I'm done. I'll never try this again. So, so that's kind of what it looks like. Now, I can, there is a right way to do this in terms of like the structure and behaviors, but the root of it, the, the, the, the fuel, the thing that drives it has to be from self-care because everything I say after that doesn't work. If it doesn't come from a self-care. Model. Does that makes sense? Yeah. Okay. So reverse dieting in a nutshell. By the way, your metabolism's not broken. I want to let you know, metabolism works. That's why you gain the lose weight. That means your metabolism is actually doing what it's supposed to. It's not broken. Uh, your, your, if it was broken, you'd be in the hospital and you put it that way. Uh, it's just adapting. Okay. So what we want to do is go through a process of building your strength, uh, improving how you feel about exercise, changing how you feel about nutrition, and giving you something called flexibility, metabolic flexibility. So it doesn't feel so restrictive. Cause no matter how you cut it, 1700 calories, two kids, busy mom, forever, is going to feel restrictive, even if you're doing it the right way. It's not that much. So we want to kind of move you in a direction where you've got more flexibility and you can eat more. Yeah. And it feels like, you know, you know, if you go off, it's not going to turn into something. I do want to say that I, um, I don't know if I mean, it's not like I did it, but I do love exercise now. Wonderful. I love the gym. Um, however, it's 15 months and I have not had a single bite of food that was not on my, yeah, it was planned out. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's the exercise. That's the issue. Yeah. I think it just comes paired with the nutrition. But I don't, I don't think exercise is the issue. It's the nutrition. It's the food, by the way, I'm going to straight up. That's the hardest part for everybody. Yeah. There is a single person where the exercise is an easier than the nutrition because food is connected to everything. It's what you eat every day. It's connected to celebrating. It's connected to like your feelings. It's also marketed all the time and you're surrounded by really tasty food all over the place. It's super cheap and easy to get. And so that's the hard part. It's engineered to be addictive. Yeah. That's the hard part is going to be the exercise. It won't be the hard part. With the exercise part, we're just going to try and get you strong. That's what we're going to try and do. What you really like getting strong. What does the training look like right now? What are you, what are you doing as far as you're lifting? So I do three to four days a week and it's kind of just like a chat G.P.T. program, but bison tries test a back lower body. I'm in there for like an hour and 20 minutes. Oh, we're going to give you a program. That's way better. You want to do that? Yeah, which off comment here. I pulled up to the gym on Monday and there was an eviction notice on the door. So I don't know what I'll be doing, but I hope you do one of those prepaid members. Are you, are you, are you, are you in a role area? Are you at near another gym? I am the issues the childcare aspect because I have to bring the kids. So I'll figure something out. Are you open? So here's a deal. So what I said is definitely the path. It's going to be really hard because it's going to feel super uncomfortable for a while. It's going to, you're going to do this kind of like back and forth. And I don't know if I can treat myself like somebody I care about. Now I'm going to beat myself up. How dare I can't believe I went off and I went off big time and it's going to be this kind of up, this up and down, 100%. It's going to be up and down. 100%. You're going to like feel like you're running and you're going to fall in your face. You're going to want to get back up and keep going. You would do really well with a coach through this process. Like you're success rate. It would quite is going to quadruple if you work with someone who can check in with you and work through this process with you and give you grace every time you stumble. Is that something that you're open to? It 100% is and I totally agree with you. It's just the, I can't really afford it right now. I 100% agree. But right now it's not feasible. We have we have different options. We have one that's called concierge, which is a much, much lower cost. And you would meet with somebody once a month and you could check it out and just see and have someone call you in the meantime. I'm going to send you a program that I think is good called Maps Muscle Mommy. I think you would love that. You'd be in the gym. I think three days a week. It's going to be way better than the chat GBT's program. Also, just in just regardless, whether you work with one of our coaches or not, I'd like to see you in 30 days. So at least we could check in on you. Yeah. Okay. Are you hitting protein targets? Tell me the specifics about what you're doing with your 100, your 17 year calories. Yeah. So I'm I'm I'm I've reversed up to 1800 now. But I'm one of those weird people that I've heard you guys talk about that has no issue getting protein in. I get 160 to 180 grams from them. All from natural food. I don't supplement. Good. Yeah. So yeah. No, you're doing great. Now is house structured is your diet? Is it like the same meal prep and everything and making it all the same? Yeah. Very, very structured. Yeah. Okay. If you end up not working with a coach, I want you to ponder this. So you can if you feel like you can do it, do it. If not, then then stay the course until you feel like you can. I would like for you to have a day where you don't eat exactly the same foods. Okay. Okay. And what you're going to do is you're going to kind of tip your dip your toe in the water. And if you go way off on that day, give yourself grace, get back on and go again, but we got to kind of play with moving outside of this really rigid structure. Yeah. Otherwise it's because it's unsustainable to do this forever. I'd actually like to put her in the muscle mommy group with Karan. She's going to get calls weekly with a coach in there. She has a group of women that are most of them are reverse dieting. What she's going to learn in there and support help. That's what I do. Yeah. Especially if obviously having a coach one on one every week would be the most ideal thing, but I understand the financial thing. So I'd like to put her in the muscle mommy group. All right. So if you end up not working with a coach, you get that at least. Yeah. We'll put you in there. Thank you. I appreciate you. Yeah. I just want I just want someone because like Sal saying, the advice is easy that we can give you. It's the week to week. It's it's inevitable. We're going to have some setbacks. And having somebody talk you off that ledge when you do and remind you that this is not that like you're okay. This is great. It's fine. Nobody deal. It happens. Now we do this through that process is just it's you can't put a price on it. It's so valuable. And it's what it'll take and it'll take a while to get there. But the other side of this is is amazing. And the other side of it looks like not tracking calories and having some flexibility to still enjoy some foods that are enjoyable and still be able to maintain a very healthy fit physique and be strong and have energy and eat a lot more calories than where you're at. And so the good you're you're at a good place. So I think you have the right attitude already with exercise and it's really the diet thing and building that confidence and we'll get there. We will we're going to help you through it. What I what I hear from you is you sound like you got some good resolve like you know what I'm going to do this different this time. Yeah, which is really really cute. Huge. That's that's positive really really positive to hear that we're going to we're going to get there. We're going to get there. Thank you. And like the way that it's gone before and you guys are totally right like I would lose 150 pounds in I don't know 10 months and then I'd have one binge and then completely it's all the reals. It's all the reals literally just one. That's all it all it takes for me. So that's that is common that is super common. What I want you to do if that happens again. Okay. Is when it happens I want you to write to the sound silly please try this. Okay. I want you to write a letter to yourself giving yourself grace and then encouraging yourself to continue to get back on track. Yeah. And it literally like you're writing a letter to your kid. Like that's how I want you to talk to yourself. Yeah. And it sounds silly. It sounds super dumb but writing your thoughts out gets it out of that emotional reactive state. It's also a buffer between one binge and the next and the next and you're going to give yourself grace. You start with that. Hey, I totally understand. This is really hard. I get it like that type of deal and then encourage. Don't say you better get back up but encourage yourself. You can do it tomorrow. I want you to start it again. Just like you talk to your kid. It sounds silly but it is a really effective at breaking that cycle. We're going to stay in touch with you. We'll see you in 30 days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds awesome. Thank you guys. All right. You got it. Thanks for calling me. All right. See you in 30 days. You got it. Bye. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough. She's a good spot though right now. I just got to say this like for people listening like you're sure. One hundred. 100% hiring a good coach. I say good 'cause there's a lot of coaches out there. - So what's the investment? - 100% it's among one of the most expensive investments in fitness you can make. A gym membership doesn't come close, or programs don't come close. Hiring a trainer in comparison to all the other things you can do or invest in with fitness is the most expensive thing. Okay. That being said, you get the best odds of long term success with a good coach and it doesn't even come close. So for anybody listening who's like, oh, it's a big investment, yes it is. But a good coach, let me tell you, if you're over having to deal with this and you're over having to live your life in a particular way, you're like, I just wanna fix forever, nothing will get you there. - It's an ecological battle. You got somebody in your corner that way for sure. - And it's an investment because even after you're done with, say, the three months or the six months or however it long takes to go through this, it forever pays itself back. - That's right. - And so it's up front, it can be for a lot of people, but once you get to, and she's already proven that she can lose the weight. She's already proven that she knows that she can wipe, not go away. - But the way she does it. - Yeah, she can wipe, not go herself down 150, 180 pounds, but to build a better relationship with that, it takes help in coaching. - Totally. - It's not as, again, the easy advice, not simple to do. - Right, right. - Our next caller is Michelle from Ontario. - Hi, Michelle. - You're doing good, Michelle. - Hi, how are you guys? - Good, how can I help you? - So I'm currently trying to figure out how to get back on track of working out. So it's been kind of a while that I've been off. I've had a baby, he's 14 months old. So it was kind of a complicated pregnancy and birth. So I'm just trying to get back into getting back to myself and working out. So I've just been like kind of wondering how to do that. I did purchase your PPL, I think the women's one. So I've been working with that and I just kind of finished phase one. So I've been wanting to start phase two this week. - Okay, was that the first workout program you did since the pregnancy? Since the baby was born? - I went back to the gym a couple of times. My husband's a big kind of gym person, so he's kind of helped me there too. But going to the gym has been a little bit difficult just because of having my son. So I've just been trying to do stuff at home more. I guess like program wise, this would be like the first big thing that I've kind of gotten back into. - Okay, and then what about history, any exercise history before you had your. - Yeah, I used to go to the gym quite often. I would say maybe like two, I would say three times, sometimes four times a week. This was before I had my son. And then just once I'd got pregnant, I could and I was put on bed rest and that just kind of I think. - How long were you on bed rest for? - I want to say almost three months. - Oh wow, okay. And then how was the delivery? - The delivery was kind of scary. So he came eight weeks early. So with that, I was put on dress, so I wasn't even like awake during it. The recovery after is so I did have a C section. So the recovery after was definitely hard, but not as hard as I thought it would have been. Like I was up, I maybe like four or five hours after the surgery, walking and moving around. So I knew that that was a big thing that like I wanted to make sure that I was up and moving right away. - Okay, good, good. And then you said when we opened that you need help getting back on track, what do you mean by that? - I guess just trying to like manage my time and really focus on like what I can be doing working out by. Like I obviously don't want to spend hours upon hours in the gym because I don't have that. But I also want to make sure that I'm using the time that I have efficiently and like getting workouts done properly. - Yeah, and you also want to train appropriately. - Yeah. - Okay, so I think PPL is the wrong program for you. - Okay. - We want something that's good, because there's been some changes in things like a pelvic floor, your core musculature. You also had a pretty traumatic process through pregnancy and birth, which also affects things like the central nervous system and whatnot. So we want to start with a program that's appropriate to start with, which may feel to you, I'm gonna warn you, like it's too easy, easy. - Okay. - So you might do it and you'd be like, this is not enough. But it'll get you better results and it'll prevent things like burnout and injury, where the risk is a bit high considering all the things that you told me. - You put it on starter first. - Yeah. So I have a program called MapStarter and I'd love you to run that program. - We'll send it to you. - Okay. - And I'm also looking through, do you mind if I read through some more of your email that you sent in? - Yep. - Okay, maybe Doug, you could scroll a little bit here. It says you had cortisol was low in the more, say it inverted cortisol. This was before pregnancy. - Yes, so I had done a bunch of testing with my family doctor and that's what we found out. So I was doing IV therapy to help with that. - Okay. How is energy and everything feel now? - Back to like what it was. - So like your low and like not there. - Okay, that makes that helps me a lot. Okay. So we also don't want, again, like I thought with how the CNS is being impacted. We have to be very careful and judicious with how we apply stress, which is what strength training will do. And so if it's right, you're gonna feel good. If it's wrong, you're just gonna be the doing the workouts and be like, why do I still feel like? - You feel like wore out. - Or why do I feel wore out? Okay. So this just confirms map starter for me even more. And what I want you to do, I'm gonna add a little bit to it, is I want you not just to follow map starter, but I want you to do it easy. - Okay. - So I want you to feel like you're going through the motions. - Okay. - And I want you to do that until you start to feel more energy. And then you can increase it the intensity a little bit. So be very like judicious. Okay, I'll go a little bit harder. I still feel good energy. I'll go a little harder. I'm crashing. Okay, I gotta back off a little bit. 'Cause we're gonna heal your body through that process. - Okay. - Okay. Talk to me a little bit about nutrition. - Probably definitely not the greatest. I feel like I barely eat. When I do eat, I probably eat way too much, but it's definitely not enough. Okay. That could give you some pretty simple advice. It sounds like you're having a tough time, by the way. - Yeah. - Yeah, sorry. So I can give you some pretty basic advice to get you started. And I think hitting what I'd like you to start with is trying to hit your target body weight and grams of protein. Just do that. - Okay. - And I want you to eat in the morning. - So I think that biggest thing is that, yeah, I don't need it in the mornings. So that'll help you manage your blood sugar and insulin, which may have a positive impact on the cortisol. - Okay. - Do you have an appetite at all? Is it feel like you have no appetite? - Depends on the morning, but it's usually like, I don't have the appetite. And I probably don't need until my, and eat until my son's down for his nap, 'cause I feel like that's when I have the time to eat. - Sometimes something light, like a Greek yogurt with berries or something like that, to start when you're not, when you're feeling that way, 'cause that's sometimes the child, like asking you to go eat four eggs with meat and something heavy, if you don't have an appetite. But if you're okay with things like Greek yogurt, if you like that, some Greek yogurt, blueberries, they make Greek yogurt too, that's already higher in protein, like 15, 20 grams in those little cups. - Yeah. - You know? - Yeah, I have one or two of those to kick start the day. That'd be really good. - Yeah, so it's like, okay, what's my target body weight? And then you eat maybe a little less than that and grams of protein and just try to prioritize that. It's probably gonna look like 30 to 40 grams of protein per meal. And so doing that, let's take a step back for a second, though, I wanna take a step back with you. Michelle, how does everything we're saying, how does that feel to you? Do you feel like, does it feel like you could do it? Do you feel like it's overwhelming? - Not that it's overwhelming, I just, I've tried and I will say I failed at it. So I know it's something like, I need to be on top of better. - Okay, you got a lot to manage, don't you? - Yeah. - Yeah. Is it feasible for you to outsource this to have a coach manage this for you? - I financially know. - Okay, all right, that's okay. - Because it's being off over right now, I have no income. - Here's what we're gonna do, Michelle. We're gonna have you back on in 30 days so we could check in with you again. - Okay. - Does that sound helpful? - Yeah. - Okay, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna encourage you a little bit, okay? It gets a lot better. - Okay. - Yep, yep. I promise you it gets a lot better. - Okay. - It's one little step at a time and the challenges are gonna look like this, okay? You're gonna do a little bit and you're gonna listen to what we're saying and then you're gonna start to feel better and then you're gonna feel like you need to go hard. - Okay. - And that's gonna set you back. - Okay. - I want you to be real gentle with yourself. - View the workout as something that's just while I'm doing it, I feel good and I get a little time to myself. Don't view the workout like I need to get in shape. I need to build some muscle. - I need to sweat. - I need to push. - I need to put a body fat. - Yeah. - Don't look at it that way. Just be like, you wanna feel good. - Just like, okay, here's my 35 minutes of me making myself feel better right now. - Get energy from it. - Like right now, It's gonna make me feel better. That's how much. So it's gonna look right now, probably with the energy and stuff you got going on. Like you're kinda going through the motions and you're just kinda like, oh, that feels good. - Okay. - Does that make sense? - Yeah, it does. - Any idea on, you're at like activity level throughout the day, like your steps. Do you know how many steps you take a day? - I did start trying to track it. And like at one point, like I was hitting at least 8,000. It just, it all depends on the day. And I know like that's, has been a goal of mine is to make sure that I am hitting it 8,000 at least. - Now, so even better way to do that, if I was coaching you would be to just kind of monitor what a normal week looks like because maybe 8,000 is double what you do on a normal day that you're not trying. - Which is too big of a jump. - It's too big of a jump. And so, and then part of this key, and if you're not picking up on it from sales, like we wanna set very easy goals that we can win and build consistency versus doing the most you can do. I'm not trying to do the most you can do every day. I wanna know, okay, looks like in a normal week when you're not even trying, you only step three to 4,000 steps. Okay, so if that's the case, the goal is 6,000 steps a day. I just, okay, let's just try and get 6,000. And so, it looks like going through the workout like Sousing, where you're taking care of yourself, you're going through the movements. It's more therapeutic than it is, pushing, grind, and sweating, do that thing. And then it's, hey, make sure I get my walks in today, so I hit my 6,000 steps. That's what it looks like. And it looks like, let's just be consistent with that. And let's do our best to try and get that protein. And even if you have a day where you have a setback, it's okay, we get right back on the horse tomorrow, we'll make sure we're better about it starting early in the morning, get that Greek yogurt in. And like, that's what it looks like. And it looks like just building some consistency around that and momentum versus, I feel good today, so I'm gonna go after it as much as I can. And then I'll send you feel like crap, and then it sets you back, and then you feel, then you beat yourself up, like you failed. And it's like, so we wanna avoid that, and just build some consistency. - Think of it like this, Michelle, think of it like this. Right now, you need to be taking care of a little bit. So the workout and the nutrition, I want you to think, okay, I'm gonna take care of myself right now. And so the workout, like I said, is gonna feel gentle, 'cause right now, that's what you need. What you don't need is to get stressed, to feel the stress of the workout. And just do that for a little while, and I promise you, it's gonna get better. I promise you it's gonna get better. - Okay. - Okay, I'm gonna send you map starter, and we're gonna have you back on in 30 days. - Okay, thank you. - Okay, and literally between now and then, just good goal is, like I said, just move the steps up a little bit from what your normal would be, and be consistent with that, and get consistent with the breakfast, with some protein in it. If you come back in 30 days, and you've like, "Hey, I've got my workouts, they're feeling good, I'm making my steps, I'm doing better than protein." That's a huge win in 30 days right there. That's a good and a good goal. Good goal for us to do that, and be consistent with it. So let's set that as our first goal, between now and seeing you again in 30 days, and then we'll stack on that later. - Yep. - Okay. - So I'm good. - Gotcha, thank you. - Yes, we got this. Yeah, we're gonna do this. You're gonna be good. We'll see you in 30, okay? - Yeah, see you in 30. - Thank you. - I'm a show. - All right, thank you. - She's having a tough time. - Oh, I can feel it too. I can feel it too. - Oh, poor girl. - Yeah. - Well, so I'm better, for three months. - That's rough. - And then emergency C section, all the way is traumatized. - Well, you could, I mean, come on. You could see her holding back the tears, just asking her about it. - I know. - Yeah, yeah, no. For sure, very traumatic if it's still affecting her that way. - But the workout, first off, workouts are always self-care. So I don't want people to understand. They're always self-care. Sometimes it looks like I'm pushing my body to adapt because that is what self-care is. In her case, pushing her body to adapt with exercise, she's not gonna heal. - She heals her back. - She heals right now. - That's it. Yeah, we gotta heal. - She has to feel good right now. And that's what the exercise should be for her. - Our next color is Sandy from Connecticut. - Hi, Sandy. - Hi, how are you doing? - Hello. - Good to see you. - Welcome back. - Thank you. Good to be back. - Give us the update. You look healthy, by the way. - I do? - Yeah. - Thank you. - Yeah, all right. Give us some updates. - Okay. So up and down stuff, it's been a very different 30 days than the first 30. So more stressful situations, 'cause I didn't have enough. So continuing the emails and things for the lawsuit going on and having to fill out paperwork and affidavits and all that jazz. So that's going on. I have made the decision that I am gonna go to the sentencing at the core at the end of the summer. So that'll be, I don't know why, just wanna be there. My daughter's been going through some medical stuff, some challenges, health issues, and a lot of testing being done to, and they haven't got a definitive diagnosis on anything yet, we're still waiting for some test results. So that's been stressful, but she is feeling better and with just some diet changes and things and some supplements. So I'm feeling hopeful about that. And what else? Well, that's kind of on the stress side of things. However, with that said, I have to say my thinking and attitude about it is different than in the past. Like I said, I'm feeling hopeful. I've helped to make few changes with things and I'm seeing the positive things. Yep, this court stuff is stressful, but it's coming to an end. So I can move on and figure out what life is gonna be. So getting past it kind of thing. That my sleep is better and I don't really know why because I haven't changed anything as far as making myself sleep better, like I'm not taking any medications or supplements or I'm following the same routines and things. I did start wearing my Fitbit these 30 days while I sleep just to get some real data on it. And it was averaging four to five hours. And then it bumped all the way up to six or seven hours. I had three nights in the past 30 days at seven and a half hours, which is a lot. This week I drop back down to an average of five. I don't really know why, but anyway. So it feels better though. So that it is better. So that's good. And what else? Community stuff. I met with the pastor at the church 101 and just kind of told him how much life is up for the past couple of years. And why I was there and what I was looking for. And I officially joined this last Sunday. And it was kind of a presentation at the church. It was kind of cool. It was also another couple joined. So they're just such a welcoming community and things. So there's a lot of committees that they have in groups and things that they do. So they were talking to me about that. I did go to the social hour after and things are talking to me about that. What do I want to do? And a lot of it is, they're kind of a sit-around kind of group of people, which I am not. So I want to contribute to something in my wheelhouse kind of things. I'm really noticing, I'll say, you know, like there's 50 to 60 of us at service each week. And I'll say a third of them are complaining about aches and pains and illnesses and things. And people with walkers and keens and their highlight is telling about their pain of the week or their new diagnosis or whatever. So I kind of want to introduce maybe some exercise in life, but not use that word, because I know it would freak them out. I love that. Can I give you an idea? I love that. I give you an idea. I think-- Yeah, please. That's not as scary to those type of people for exercise is a walking group. I think that's a great idea. It's start a walking group within that community. Yeah. And the church. Yeah. I think that would-- I think that's a great idea. Because the church is on this cute little street, flat surface and stuff. So we could walk right there. And instead of-- I'm sitting with them in the social hour and they all have their coffee and their cake. And it's like, you're sitting here talking about all your health issues, eating cake. What are you doing? Obviously, don't say those things. But maybe let's grab a water and go for a walk. Anybody want to come? You don't have to. I love that idea. I love that idea. That would be so good. It puts you at service. And you're serving. It's a great way to build a community. And it's something you're offering that I think is so valuable. Yeah. My son-- he works for any time fitness. I don't know if I had mentioned that before. But he developed the-- consulted with somebody. I don't remember the guy's name. But anyway, it did and has developed the Ageless Program. Oh, wow. Ageless Fitness. And he's huge. He's six and, you know, a Muslim man. And all these little low ladies and guys that he works with just feels so safe with him. He works with a guy in his eighties who falls 'cause he had a stroke and, you know, Kyle catches him and things. So I was thinking about asking him maybe to come in to one of the, they have a lot of different groups in the evenings and things and maybe just talking to them about the Ageless Program. And so wonderful. Yes, I love that. 'Cause he knows what he's talking about too. At the very least, he could offer advice. That's wonderful. - Yeah. I don't know if I can get him to do it. So, but just to, hopefully, he can motivate anybody to, you know, to exercise. And he sent me a video last week of this 90 year, 92 year old woman walking across the gym, unassisted. - Wonderful. - And she started in a wheelchair. So it's that kind of stuff. So anyway, I thought maybe with his motivation which is my spark some interest and I could get him to do something. So what else? Oh, I did connect with a women's shelter in town that is a 24-bed facility for recovering addicts. They needed stuff. They needed kitchen items and those kind of things. So I just went through the house and, you know, I had plenty of stuff and brought over a bunch of boxes of stuff and whatever I can do to help them. So again, looking for things to, that don't cost money, but you can still do with people to help. So what else have I done? - It says you got a lot stronger in your email, Sandy. - Yeah, you know, so here's my frustrations and stuff. Yes, I definitely feel stronger. And it just seems like it's happening fast. And I'm almost back to the weights that I was lifting, you know, prior to the train going off the track with the hormone mess up and the knees and all that jazz. And I was like, wow, this is really fast. And then I was thinking, well, maybe it is some of that muscle memory you guys talk about, you know, bouncing back from things. So yeah, it went back to like leg presses and things. Like I had to stop on the leg press machine when my knees were so bad, 'cause it was just so much inflammation and pain. And you know, I was a little leery of it. Greg was starting light, you know, like I started at, what was the weight? It was 135 pounds just a star. And I'm up to 225. - Yeah. - So. So that's good. The in the sled, when I first started doing the sled again, I was again getting a lot of inflammation in my knees, but I'm not anymore. And so we just kept pushing through and I started at 165 and I'm up to 265. - Wow. - So. - That's great. - So that feels good. It's funny, 'cause there's, I struggle with the barbell press anything that I'm laying on a bench or even dead lifts because I feel a strain in my back when I do those things. So my tendency is to try and then say, I can't do it 'cause of my back. And you know, Greg said, no, you can't do it because of your head. Get out of your head and pick a bar. (laughing) So, you know, so I am, I'm doing it. So if there's anything, there was one of my questions this week. If there's anything you can advise as far as, any maybe some more priming things that to strengthen that back for those specific lifts. So, and I think part of it is, I'm worried a little bit. I feel a little unsafe. I feel like I might hurt my back and I don't, I cannot be out of the gym again. So. - Yeah. - Anything. - Yeah. - It sounds like, so you have your coach, so you're doing it with your coach, right? - Yeah. - Okay, so listen to his prompts. Brace your core when you're doing the lifts and if you don't feel safe going heavier, don't. And just say, okay, I just wanna stay at this weight and maybe I could slow the reps down. And so, and then embrace your core 'cause we can happen sometimes, we can over arch. - Yeah. - Our backs, so we're trying to be straight but what ends up happening is we over arch. And the way you offset that is you brace your core like you're trying to brace it as if someone's gonna poke you in the stomach. - Okay. - While you're doing the lift. - Yeah, I arch my back a lot. - So overarching, we'll make it feel like there's some shearing pressure in the low back. - Okay. Yeah, I still can't get my arms flat against the wall when I'm doing the priming, you know. - That's all right. - Yeah, Sandy, as long as you're making progress. - You've got a lot stronger. Your sleep is improving. Your building community, this is like some of the best progression I've seen. - 60 days. - Where's the downside, yeah. - You're doing great. - Like you're killing it. - I can see it in your face too. You look good. - Yep. - Well, thank you. I gotta say though, the other priming exercises, I'm rocking it. I mean, I never thought I could make my arm go all the way around on the wall 'cause the first time I tried it, there was like, no way, this isn't possible. It's like, I think Justin and Doug have rubber bands instead of bone, because I can't do this. And I'm doing it. I'm not a problem. - That's all right. - And the squats, everything. But not the arms on the wall cannot get them there. - That's a tough one. - That's a tough one, yeah. - That's a tough one for me. It's a tough one for all of us. - But if you're seeing improvements everywhere, I mean, you're skipping away. - This is 60 days. - Yeah, yeah. - It's only 60 days. This is your kicking butt. - Yep. My back is much better. And, but I do stiffen up after my workouts. And, you know, unfortunately, I'm going from a workout to sitting at a desk. - Okay. - And it's just so stiff and sore. But, so the downside. - Do you not have any pelvic tips? Tells, do you know how to do pelvic tips? Just gonna say, back. - Yes, I know how. And when you said that, I can't even tell you the last time I really practiced it. - Or was prompted to do it. So. - So you could practice pelvic tips while seated. Better way to do it's laying on your back with your knees bent. And you'll have a natural arch in your low back. And you just flatten the low back. Squeeze your core. - Flat away down and you're all right. - Let it arch back up. Flat and let it arch back up. Flat and butt stays on the floor the whole time. - Squeeze our glutes really tight, especially when you go to bridge and hold it at the top and reinforce that come back down. Adjust so your back is super flat again. Then we go back up. - Do we have a pelvic tilt video? - Yeah, on my pump TV. - That would be a good primer for you to do before anyone. - And even afterwards. - Yep. - Okay. - Yeah. - Okay. Great. Good. I will do that. - Yeah, we'll hope kind of reinforce that strength. - Okay. The downside is the nutrition. I think just with stuff going on, I got sloppy with tracking and planning and prepping everything. It just kinda. - That's fine. And then I got all in my head about that. It's like, oh my god, I failed. I don't want to go back on the podcast till the guys I didn't do what I was looking for. - Sandy, Sandy. I don't care. Don't trip about it. - You know what can I tell you something real quick? I'm actually happy to stop tracking. I think it was just too much control. Too many things to worry about, which is probably why you stopped. And everything else is doing great. I don't care. I don't care. If you want to get back to tracking, go for it. Just try to make healthy choices for now. I'm not worried about you tracking right now. - Well, I know I didn't up my calories much, which I get so frustrated that I don't see, physically see the progress. In fact, I lost my mind because I had a couple of events this in this past 30 days that people took pictures and posted on Facebook. And oh my god. - Sandy, I'm not gonna stop you right there. I'm not gonna let you do this to yourself. When you look at the bar that you're lifting, do you see a difference between when you started it now? - Yes. - Yeah, so you see something. - I do. I do as long as I don't look at my reflection. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're moving in the right direction and your body's gonna follow. What we're seeing right now is change. So let me put you this way. - You're shifting. - The Sandy that leg pressed 135 is not the same Sandy that leg pressed 220 pounds. You're actually different. It's fundamentally different. Okay, now the changes might not be big enough for you to notice in the mirror and that might be because there's a subtle, it also might be because you might be overly critical, but it's only been 60 days. You are moving in the right direction. - I know, and Greg says it's been 60 days. - Yes. - You know, I know. I wanna get to 365, like, it's fun. - Don't get in your head about that. That'll slow everything down. Just, you're doing your great. I'm glad you're not tracking. If you wanna get back to it, go for it, but it feels like too much to do it. And you're eating enough. Obviously, you got stronger. - A better goal nutritionally than getting back to tracking everything is like, if you know, most people have a thing that they know that I'm bad at skip, I skip breakfast or I know that I should have, this time that should have been more protein. Set a nutrition goal like that. Instead of getting more into tracking every single calorie or trying to, like, where do you skip a meal or where could you make a better choice? And like, just that one thing. It's like, I'm gonna be more consistent with Star Wars. my day with this meal or ending my day with this meal or making sure I have this many ounces of meat when I whatever the thing is instead of like making it a big deal about every single thing that you consume or all day tracking it's like I know I can be a little bit better at this time of the day with my food I'm gonna get a goal to make that choice there or add that protein shake whatever it is but make a simple goal nutritionally and just focus on that versus the whole thing. Oh yeah that would be dinner because you know I eat the same thing for breakfast and lunch every single day. Okay good so simple that's so good. So if I could just because sometimes I just find myself I'm hungry I go grab something and it tends to be nuts or something and then I like oh my god they're so high in fat and you know I start to beat myself up about that because I didn't pay attention to how much and it's like oh so I would say a snack and dinner if I could get a grip on that. There you go so let's just focus on one of those things. Let's do that. Just focus on one of those things and be more consistent with it and if the one day happens when you're not perfect it's not a big deal tomorrow will be good about it just focus on that one thing versus tracking every single thing and overthinking it just focus on that one thing. I'm gonna tell you helping other people is gonna make it so much better for how you are with yourself. You doing the thing where you went to the women's shelter maybe starting this walking group I think that's gonna be so awesome I think it's so good. So wait less critical about yourself. Yeah in 30 days let's let's check in and see how those went. Okay yeah yeah that's really I guess I started to beat myself up because I felt like I failed you guys you know I was like all I had to do was be good for 90 days how the how the heck could you fail us you're killing it even if you didn't I'm gonna tell you something Sandy even if you didn't get stronger even if you get on here right now we check so many other guys listen I couldn't do anything I couldn't do any of it I'm really stuck right now you showed up you know like you showed up you got back on the call with us I did I did you're doing great yeah you're doing good we'll see you in 30 days Andy all right okay great thank you we love you yeah thank you all right hi she's so sweet yeah the the connecting with her community helping other people is so good so it's gonna be so so needed could you see how quickly she wanted to switch the lines it back in yeah like a terrible executive way first off objectively you're taking a yes yeah objectively yeah so it's just inaccurate I think that's just a tendency and we got to stop that but I think helping other people is such a great such a great thing to do our next color is Jackson from Florida what's up Jackson what's happening hey guys thanks for having me on really appreciate it you got a man how can we help you I gotta I gotta say first off the biggest thing I've taken away from you guys is the less is more so thank you for that um sweet I'm gonna jump into uh jump into my question here and uh it revolves around bulking and cutting I've been training for around 20 years and well definitely stronger than when I was 15 years old it feels like I'm somewhat treading water I've always looked stronger than most of my peers but I've never really uncovered my abs which I'd say is kind of my biggest uh kind of what I'm looking to do uh to get some added context about three years ago I herniated my L5 deadlifting I was doing map sandabolic and unfortunately your program worked way too well um I was getting super strong doing like 500 pounds for around three reps with a hex bar um I tried everything but eventually had to get surgery after about a year and a half of recovery um I'm back in the gym now with mostly no limitations biggest thing I'm hesitant to do squats or deadlift under about seven or eight reps closest I've come to feeling uh ripped I would say is when I cut down to about from 187 to 180 about six foot tall and I was using Lane Norton's carbon app tracking all my food to kind of get down and figure out uh where that was um with all that being said my main question would be to try and look better with a shirt off living in Florida going into summer do you all recommend cutting down to a lower body weight and then hitting maintenance calories um do you bulk first uh do you you know like I'm just kind of trying to figure out like if I were to try to bulk first I feel like I'd largely at that since I've been doing so since I've been training for so long um and then just a real quick side note for this specific question uh I just am getting over mono um I'm about a week uh at this point it's more like two weeks in a training and I'm probably functioning at about an RPE 8 at this point um and I'm just kind of ramping that up slowly I lost seven pounds during mono so uh I'm right around 180 from where I normally sit at 187 um so I'm less weight but I'm also I didn't lose it in a good way I lost it because of the mono so where do I go from here uh for both training and nutrition and in the future when mono is kind of out of the question what would sort of your standard advice be yeah good so let's back up for say what was the surgery that you had uh it was a discectomy okay so you have no disc really replace it uh they just they just shaved out a little bit okay okay all right all right so you're okay with not squatting or deadlifting below seven wraps and you're totally with your experience because you sound I mean you're you're using terms like RPE you've been strength training for a long time split stance exercise are perfectly fine for a guy like you so uh because you've probably built up your squat at different moments of your life to pretty good numbers you could switch to split stance exercises if you want to go heavy and then stick to the higher wraps with the squats you'd be totally fine uh as far as the deadlift is concerned you could always treat that uh just with lots of respect once again because you did get your weight so high so like you I mean you could pull you pulled a lot of weight so I wouldn't you're not a guy that would be like now let's challenge it but like no no we'll just we'll just do the dead lifts and maintain them and get stronger on other lifts uh if you feel like it's a big risk do you know what you're eating now what your calories look like now by any chance uh yeah I'm right around 3,100 I'd say for maintenance 3132 yeah dude and you know what your active active job what do you do for work I make ice cream actually oh really yeah like literally like like ice cream truck what do you do well no so I'm like the batch planner and uh like purchaser and stuff for we make like three gallon tops for scoop shops and stuff here and Florida and you'd be a dangerous friend of mine I was just gonna say I mean oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's pretty great yeah we couldn't hang out bro we all know I think you're a drug dealer taking me down a few times well okay so when you're over the mono your calories aren't about you're they're good you could definitely cut from there and I don't do your body weight is you're probably already relatively lean would you you have a guess for what your body fat sits after you're doing it right if I had to guess I'd say I'm like 14 15 oh yeah I look a little even at this like new one I said 180 I'm more like 182 probably doesn't matter to you guys um it's I definitely look a little fluffier though than what I would think I should look like at that weight well you just had mono so uh and you're still in that so but and under normal circumstances if you're eating like 31 32 under calories 14% body fat you could go in a deficit go down to 2500 2400 that'll get you down to 11 11 10% so it wouldn't be hard to do that also keep in mind because we um the the goal is see abs and and be strong be strong or kind of conflicting yeah right so just and I heard you say that earlier we were talking about like wanting to get stronger in your lips and seeing things like that and we were in the head where you've already been and where you're heading and then wanting to see out and they're kind of two different things like I'm if I'm gonna focus on seeing abs I'm not really tripping about how heavy of weight I'm lifting because I'm gonna be weaker I'm gonna be low calorie I'm depleted being that low is not ideal so definitely make sure that's not like in your head of like oh man I'm only doing this now it's like let that go if we're gonna if we're gonna head that way if we're gonna say let's see how shredded we could get just accept that you're not gonna be your your lifts aren't gonna be going up they're gonna be going the other direction more than likely now if I had to pick one because especially because you're coming out of motto is I would go into building yeah and I would build for maybe 45 60 days and then I go on the cut just because you're coming out of getting sick so would you keep it like maintenance calories or would you add 100 200 kind of thing I think I would add a little bit with some strength training yeah and you're gonna see some strength gains anyways coming out of illness so I get up to like 3300 calories at least I would how maybe you have 35 I feel you have a healthy metabolism you could probably jump over the 3500 calories fine yeah yeah I think honestly the the biggest thing that I find when I'm like eating higher calorie amounts is like I get to the end of the day and it's like well we got to have a worldwide screen kind of things it's like I'm I'm eating I think I guess I just got to add more like fatty meats and things like that in order yeah yeah to not do that because I think there's something can be said about a calories of calorie but also there's things that you know go way beyond that no I mean that can also be the one thing that's kind of keeping you that kind of fluffy feeling that you're feeling right now too is that you add calories but then they come from things like ice cream so which I could totally relate to what that's like and it's a big difference of you and sometimes okay just so you know so this is a sign that what I'm not eating enough calories so in an easy way without me getting crazy and tracking for me to kind of lean out get ripped bill muscle it's like kind of the Goldilocks zone is when I'm still at the end of my day and I know I've had my meals I've hit my protein and I'm still hungry and then I go get ice cream or something like that simply just not having ice cream and making another meal makes a huge difference just like just saying okay obviously my metabolism saying I want more calories still so I'm building my muscle I'm ramping up. If I could just discipline myself to not go have the 800 calories of basically sugar, I can go have a 500 calorie high protein meal. Well, man, that's it. So if you feel that, sometimes that's how metabolism ramping up and saying, I still want more food and I'm too low calorie. And on the flip side, if you get to 3,100 calories, you've hit your protein at the end of the day, you're like, I'm full. Yeah. I don't want any more than don't. Then shut it down. The protein you're fine. Yeah. Shut it down. Yep. OK. That's cool. So it sounds like you're saying, go ahead and add some calories back in. I'm pretty close to being able to go back into the gym. I feel like 100%. So adding some calories back in, trying to gain, would you kind of try to stay-- what sort of training do you guys look at when you're either in the gaining or kind of the more cutting phase? Like do you write that effect? Or is it just-- All strength training is trying to build muscle, whether you're in a cut or in a bulk. So it just really depends on-- OK. I'll give you a tip for a guy who's advanced like you, because do something novel. So if you are the person who typically would follow a map Santa Ballot type of protocol, then run something like a performance protocol or symmetry or strong. So a good strategy for guys that have been lifting for a long-- have a lot of experience in the gym. And you want to build is doing something novel. If you've never done like an old-timey lift, like that type of training, we have a program with that. Follow a program of ours that you normally wouldn't follow. Instead of following back into the kind of norm of what you do, go after something that you have it. And that novel stimulus with the additional calories, that'll put some good muscle on, right away. Yeah, so that's-- OK, that's awesome. Yeah, I've actually-- I've got map symmetry. So maybe I could run that one again, because I think that that's the one that does like the split stances that you're talking about. Right, yep. That's perfect. That'll be good for you considering your low back and your-- OK. Yeah, I liked that. Yeah, I liked that. Awesome. And then you had mentioned-- so after the symmetry, you said either was it performance or aesthetic that you would recommend? Oh, after symmetry, you could do performance, but you could also do almost any other program. PPL would even be good if you want to do more of a bodybuilding split. OK, yeah. I'll check them out. And I really appreciate you guys-- and I wasn't really thinking that you guys were going to say, like, build from here. And so that's kind of-- that's some good advice to go build, and then from there to kind of cut down. Oh, yeah. Especially coming from off the mono like that. That'll do well for you. Jesse, do you track your steps? Do you know what you do per day? I don't actually get that many steps because of what I do for work. We have been renovating a house. And so Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I've been getting quite a bit of activity in, but that's stopped over the last month. And so my guess is my average step count is like 6,000. OK. So here's-- I'm going to take further advice for you so you go. OK, so this is what this path looks like to me. Get up to 3,500 calories, follow symmetry, follow that through, like, through basically a full bulk and kind of stay there until you're kind of hovering around the way. You're not gaining any more. You're not losing any way at your build, getting stronger through the program. Then when you go on the cut, cut it back down to 3,000 to 31 range, and just bump steps by 2,000 steps a day. That's your first protocol. And then literally kind of keep your calories there and just trying to increase your steps. And then go down a little bit on the calories, maybe down to 28. And just keep kind of playing that game of trying to slowly increase steps every week over week while just kind of cutting a little bit of calories. And if we do a really good job, you should probably still be able to eat 25 to 2,700 calories and be pretty shredded. OK. That's awesome. Yeah, if you get up to 3,500 calories, maintaining your weight, feeling good, putting on a couple pounds of muscle, and then we just kind of slowly incrementally come down in calories, and then slowly incrementally go up in steps. That should be enough to nice lean you out, really nice. OK. And the steps are basically just to get you that little extra bump in calories. That's right. That's right. That's right. OK. Yep. Awesome. Cool. Hey guys, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. You got it, man. All right, Jason. Thanks for going in. All right. Yep, right. You'll do well. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. stronger but then you're also low calorie and it's just like then you get hurt trying to do that. That's right. Look. If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body. Dramaticly improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps and Ebola. Maps for Performance and Maps Esthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. 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