Why 90% of Health Advice Fails (and the Easy Fix No One Talks About) – Dan Go

(upbeat music) - Welcome back to everyday ancestral. I'm your host, James Barry. You know, we can talk about health, fitness, sleep. Everything that's gonna basically support you in being harder to kill or living longer. But the reality is that if you don't change your mindset, if you kind of just continue to see this as extreme living and extremities, then you're really never ever gonna start. And my next guest, Dan Goe, really understands the need to just start. He's got a fantastic story of how he got into becoming a fitness guru and such a humongous influencer of people's health. As a fitness coach and entrepreneur, Dan Goe is dedicated his life to helping high-achieving individuals transform their bodies and minds with over 20 years of experience in the fitness industry. And he's guided thousands of clients towards losing a collective 100,000 pounds and counting. He's a straight talker and he has an empathetic approach, which resonates with an audience of millions on social media and the 400,000 plus weekly subscribers to the high-performance journal newsletter. His experience has been featured in media outlets, including GQ, CNN, Fortune, and Entrepreneur among many others. Dan is a fantastic person, expert in his field. And I'm so excited for you to learn from him today. Please enjoy guest, Dan Goe. I have to say, this is like a perfect timing of an interview because I was just in a conversation with a very old friend of mine. And he and I were talking about fitness. And we were talking about mindset. And he is looking at what his next venture is going to be. And he was talking about like, you know, I really want to try to help people with their health. But I realize I'm very disciplined, but I don't know how to teach that to people. And I know you talk about this a lot, but we talk about how most people won't make any changes to their health unless they get sick or someone they love gets sick or dies, right? But the goal is we're trying to help people before it gets that bad. So is there a trick like how do you actually motivate someone to make changes before they actually realize something's wrong? I don't think you can leave a horse to water. I do believe that it has to come from their own volition and their own personality. There is no tricks, there's no hacks. Like the only thing that we can do on our side is be the example that we want to be and hopefully that influences the people that we loved and the people that are around us. And for me specifically, when I create content and when I do things that express my opinions on the internet, I'm just hoping that I use the right words and I say things in the right ways that can at least like change one person's life and help move them in the direction that is more conducive towards being healthier, but the motivation has to come from within. And I'll use an example of this where I asked one time, what is the one thing that would signify to you that a client is going to be unsuccessful with your coaching program? And I shot out right away and I said, when they tell me that they're going to be my best client ever. And the reason I see that is because they are so focused on this external form of being approval or an external form of motivation. And every time that a client has said that to me, regardless of like if they actually transformed, which they usually do, they don't stick the transformation because they're doing it for an external piece of validation. The internal piece has to be the piece that motivates them. They want to be healthy because they want to live up to their full potential. They want to be a better family man for their kids. They want to be able to break a generational curse of just being unhealthy. I mean like there has to be this internal locus of control that pushes them towards wanting to be healthy, not this external. I want to look good in front of other people. I'm going to be your best client. Like anytime that we do and base things on the external, that to me is always going to signify that maybe you'll hit it, maybe you won't, but even if you hit it, you're not going to have enough juice to keep it. You've talked about identity shifts before. So is this an example of that? Because it's interesting when I think of identity, I think of two things. I think of the way other people perceive us and then the way we perceive ourselves. So you could you kind of dig in and talk about what you mean when you say identity shift? Our self image and the way in which we perceive ourselves and the vocabulary that we use to identify ourselves are going to be the greatest tools to getting in shape or the greatest tools to getting out of shape. And a lot of times when people are starting this process of just getting in shape, what happens as a result is is their old vocabulary and their old programming just takes over. Oh, I don't know if I can do this. I've been out of shape for so long and I've been out of shape for my entire life. I just don't know if I can actually get myself into the body that I feel like I desire and deserve it. And we have to be able to change the image that we have inside of our minds. And when we change the image that we have inside of our minds through be it visualization, mental rehearsal or affirmation and actually affirming to ourselves the things that we're doing, the things that are making us feel good and saying, I am that person. The more that we're going to be able to change for the long term, I say that everyone that has listened to this podcast who has tried to lose weight has probably lost a good chunk of weight before only to gain it back. And for me, I'm not really concerned about losing weight one time. It's kind of like money. I want to be able to make money, keep it and grow it as opposed to just like making money and just like spending it right away. So the same thing goes with say weight loss or getting in shape. I look at weight loss as something that is to be sustained but you don't sustain it through tactical measures. Those things help. But we have to sustain it through these soft skills through the ways in which we talk to ourselves through how we actually visualize ourselves when we see ourselves in the mirror and we see ourselves inside of our minds. And one of the best ways to do that is to incrementally change our self image. So we can evolve into the person that we see. You just said something about tactical measures. This is something you advocate, which is you got to know your stats to be able to know where you're going or where you've been. Is that what you're referring to when you say tactical measures? Yeah, so it's like there are tactical things that I feel everyone should be doing on a regular basis to get themselves in shape. It's kind of like a business. Because I'm an entrepreneur, I look at body transformation through the lens of entrepreneurship. And one of the main things is like knowing your numbers. I had this conversation with a client before or actually he was about to become a client and I asked him, okay, how often do you check your sales numbers? And he had a person report to him, his cash flow, his debt, all that kind of stuff. Every single day there's a report sent to him that he looks at. So he stays on top of it. And then this guy was a little overweight. Let's just say he had about 40 to 50 pounds of lose. And I asked him, okay, cool. When's the last time that you stepped on the scale? He's like, I don't know, like a month ago. I don't really want to step on it because I'm afraid of what it's going to say. And this is the big disconnect that I find is that if you are so, let's just say obsessed about measuring which you manage, especially when it comes to your business, something that's external. Why are you so scared of measuring something that's internal, something that actually matters which is the numbers that pertains to your own health? Getting this data, lifting, walking, eating nutrient dense foods, like we can go into the weeds of these tactics. And yeah, sure, those things are going to help. But what you change on the outside is not going to matter if we're not changing what's on the inside right here. They're not going to keep you tethered to the lifestyle. 100% because like one thing is going to happen. One thing, one thing is going to take you off course. And then you're going to be like, I, yeah, I get it. It wasn't meant for me. And then they're going to hit an obstacle no matter what happens. And at that point in time, they're going to have to ask ourselves, is this thing the thing that I actually want to do, am I willing to go through the get that I'm going to go through and through the obstacles, just like in business, is like, am I willing to go through all those obstacles to get to where I want to be? Or am I going to let one obstacle just stop me and say, oh, that wasn't it? No, I guess this isn't for me, right? So we want to make sure that we build up this resiliency. And I have a mantra that I have for all of my clients, I have a mantra that I have for myself, which is the mantra of as long as it takes. I remember one of my friends, he came up to me as like, Dan, I've been eating high protein, I've been working out three times a week and I haven't drank alcohol for 30 days and I don't see anything, I don't see any changes. I went to him just like, okay, cool. Like, let's actually use a business term right now. So if you tried everything that you could do to build a business and you tried for 30 days and you said, oh, I guess entrepreneurship is not for me. Like, what would you say to this person? And they're like, oh, okay, like they start to get it, right? For a lot of people, they're trying to fix in 90 days what has been downgraded for the past two to five years, if not even longer than that. So I tell them it's like, why don't you give yourself a longer time horizon in which to achieve this? And as long as it takes, if it takes one year, if it takes two years, whatever. And I actually say that the slower and the longer it takes to get you to where you need to be, the more sustainable it's gonna be because what happens as a result is you allow yourself to go through multiple failures. You give yourself the permission to fail. You give yourself permission to say, I did everything I stopped on the scale and I'm like five pounds up, what do I do? The more that you allow yourself this freedom to have mistakes and to make mistakes and to fail over and over and over and to also use those failures to see yourself to actually make changes to improve yourself, the more that you're gonna be able to integrate the things that you need to for long term sustainable change over the course of time. - I've been going through that for the last four months on my journey and coming to those same conclusions. It's very, very powerful to just stay the course and learn what you need to learn by being as regular as you can. Obviously, you're gonna go up and down but getting continue to always get back to that home-air stasis in a sense. It's been really powerful. Now, something that comes up is I just read today how Reed Hoffman, the founder of LinkedIn and other big startups, I think PayPal as well. He talks about how, when you're like a startup and you're equating a lot of things to business and entrepreneurship, he talks about how, if you're not burning the candle at both ends, then you're not a true entrepreneur. You're not a true startup and I read that and I was like, man, but that just goes against everything I've found that works for me is that I have to strive towards balance, not extremities. And I know that you're an amazing model for people about not doing extreme diets, not punishing workouts, like really finding balance. How does that play into that mentality, that very American mentality of like go big or go home or if you want to make a lot of money, you got to go hard, you know that kind of concept. - I actually love putting constraints on myself. So let's just say like I set a goal and let's just say the goal is to lose 20 pounds, get to 10% body fat. I won't put a constraint on myself to say, well, I want to be able to have ice cream with my daughter every single Saturday. If I'm building a business and I'm trying to build it up to $10 million, then what's going to happen is is that I'm going to set a constraint for myself to say I can only work from eight to four and I take weekends off. And the reason I would set these things is one, there's no point to attaining all of this stuff if you lose the things that are most important to you which are your health and your family. If you're giving up on those things, especially everything that we know about, let's just say little kids, like if we have little kids, there is this finite amount of time that we get to enjoy them. If you spend the finite amount of time trying to build this thing and spending all your time away from them, what are we doing? You're going to look back at that and be like, I miss probably the most important time in their life. And then they're probably not going to even want to chill with you like when they get older anyways. - That's the excuse people use all the time. Like I'm doing this for you. I'm working this hard for the family or I'm always working out because I want to live longer, spend time with you. - The thing is is that they use that as rationalizations. They're really doing it for themselves because they love the game and they actually find more comfort playing that game than they find comfort in being the family man. For me, I like to set constraints because I do believe that you can attain very cool, amazing life changing things, even building a billion dollar company by having constraints. And then what's going to happen is that when you set these constraints on yourself, you're going to set boundaries and then it's going to make you think. Okay, so if I were to build an ape figure business by only working eight to four and taking weekends off, what exactly are the resources I would need in which to attain that and in which to succeed at that? You would actually look at things a lot differently. Instead of being like the bottleneck for all the decisions, maybe you hire COO or CEO. If you don't have an EA, I mean, like start at ground zero, but you will actually look at things in a lot more of a different lens when you set constraints. And then you say, I am going to achieve this based on these constraints that I set for myself. And you're not just setting constraints for the sake of setting constraints. You're setting constraints because you want to prioritize the things that matter most in life, which are going to be your health and your family. So anytime that I'm setting a goal for myself, I'm saying, okay, I have to do this within the context of these constraints because these are actually the things that matter most to me. There's building business thing. This actually is kind of fun for me. This is like me doing my hobby a little bit and I love doing it. And I can do it 12 hours a day, 24/7. I can, I love doing it. But you can't play basketball 24/7. You can't be good at anything by going 24/7. You can't be good at the things that you actually want to be good at, which is being a good family man and being healthy by going 24/7 and over indexing on something like a business. So that's what I would do. I would set these constraints and I will make sure that these constraints are related to the priorities that I have in my life. - You're bringing up an interesting point that the person that is the workaholic that is using the family is the excuse. - You bring up the point of what they really want versus what they're presenting to their family, right? In a way that's kind of saying like well, how honest are you gonna be about your own motivations? Like kind of in a sense like looking inward. Like how honest are we gonna be with ourselves? But then we're also talking about mindset, which sometimes there is a fake it till you make it kind of mentality of like to change your mindset 'cause if you feel like a piece of (beep) you're labeling yourself that, which is what most people are doing to get out of that. You do have to kind of fake it until you make it, right? You got to change that mindset and find the glasses half full versus half empty. You've got to change perspective. How do you recommend people do that? - The first thing is is like listen to the right people. I mean, that's like number one. Get advice from people that you would actually love to trade places with because we're living in this world where we're inundated with information and inundated with people giving advice and ironically here we are on the podcast giving advice. But one of the biggest things that has helped me is like asking myself what I want to trade places with this person. So let's just say it's like some entrepreneur or maybe it's even read Hoffman. I'd be like, okay, so cool. Do his kids actually like him? Is he a good father? If it's like someone telling me to work 12 hours a day and just forgo everything just so I can succeed in business, do they have kids? And it's just like choosing the right role models. Those are probably like the first thing because we're all gonna be, then we all have this kind of like, I think it's like the parasocial relationship that we have with the people that are influencing us. So it's like number one, choose the right role models. I'm not choosing Elon Musk as a role model. I am quite inspired by the things that he is achieving, but I'm not choosing him as a role model. I'm choosing the guy who is probably quietly a great dad who is building a fantastic business and I'm listening to his advice and I'm making sure that I'm gonna be following what he does in his life. The other mindset is to know yourself. It's to have this self-awareness. So why do we want to achieve the things that we want? We want to achieve the things that we want. Let's just say primarily for the form of, let's just say 99% of the things that we want to achieve are gonna be for status to elevate ourselves. There is only so much money that we can make that is gonna make us happier, pass the point of taking care of all of the things that help us survive. So knowing why you want what you want is one of the biggest ways to avoid climbing the wrong ladder. Let's just say like I had a climb before, he's like, I wanna do a bodybuilding competition and I wanna take it all the way there. And I was just like, why? I'm like, oh, so I can get myself in shape. Well, you don't have to join the bodybuilding competition that gets a shape. And quite frankly, you don't understand the amount of eating disorders these bodybuilders have to get to the eighth levels of body fat. And also, what's gonna happen when you get up on stage? You're gonna, maybe you win, maybe you don't, who cares, right? But you're gonna get the ego boost of saying that I did it. But what is that actually gonna do for you? Why do you want what you want? And I feel like people want things because other people want them, not because they actually want them. Is that makes any sense? So we have to have this level of self-awareness and keep on asking ourselves, okay, so why do I wanna want this? Why do I want that? What is this gonna do for me? What is this gonna do for my family? What is this gonna do for my health? It takes us from going through life in this like unconscious manner to really just like having a discerning eye for inviting the things that you feel are going to supposedly make your life better. - Yeah, I mean, in a sense though, that discerning eye, it can be also another word for that could be discipline, right? And you've talked about like previously, like discipline is love. I've heard you say that. Can you unpack that? Because particularly in how someone who's struggling with self-care or self-worth can reframe discipline, 'cause a lot of people in the parenting world individually, that word discipline has a bad rap. Don't discipline your kids. You're just too restrictive around diet, you know? There's all these kind of associations with that word. So how can we reframe that word to turn it back into that discipline is love? - Well, remember when we were kids, I don't know what your family life was like back then, but generations changed. So the, our perception of the word discipline is for me, it's like getting a belt. - Totally. - You know? - Absolutely, yes. - Like, you know, you gotta stay in your room and can't come out, whatever. - Caveman version of punishment or cake, it's kind of thing. So we understand and we saw discipline or people like in our age saw discipline as this negative thing. We are getting disciplined. And what that meant was physical harm or getting something taken away. Nowadays, obviously we have gentle parenting and like all this kind of stuff that's becoming popular, but what discipline means today is the concept of actually caring for yourself. So as we grow older, we have to do this thing that the gen, or the gen Z people call adulting. It's just maturing. And what we have to do is we have to care for ourselves. What does that mean? What doesn't mean you're sitting on your couch watching Netflix. It doesn't mean that you're kind of like eating whatever you want. And just like leaning into emotional eating stress eating and being like, I can just have ice cream whenever I want. It doesn't mean massages. It doesn't mean any of this shit that is just based on recreation. What it means is to actually care for yourself as if you were an organism you're taking care of, like a plant maybe. And maybe some people are like, I can't take care of plants. My plants always die on me. But anyways, I digress. Carrying for ourselves means to feed ourselves, to nourish ourselves in a way that is going to help us perform in the best way that we can possibly perform. Taking care of ourselves through exercise, making sure that regardless of how we feel, we're going to create a routine where we're going to hit the gym three times a week. It doesn't matter what you're feeling. You're going to hit it. It means going to bed on time and not scrolling through social media or doom scrolling and kind of frying your dopamine receptors, listening to people, give you loads of information, usually wrong information. So the concept of discipline is actually self-care. The concept of discipline is self-love. You are taking care of yourself. That is what discipline is now in modern day. And for me, it's really just like moving back to where we are supposed to be as human beings. It's like making sure that we are doing things that make us feel the best. And those things are obviously sleep, nutrition, hydration and exercise. So discipline is love. That's what it is. - Well, I love too that you're delving into ancestral concepts. You're saying, you know, like what we did in the past, and that's precisely what this podcast is about, is taking the best from the past and bringing it to our present. What do you think it is that our ancestors understood about identity since that is like the root of transformation from based on our conversation today? What did they understand about identity and self-worth that we're losing or that we've lost today? - I think the first thing that we're losing rapidly is community. So back then, we used to live in these tribes that didn't get any bigger than, for some, there was like 20, for others, it was like 100, but it didn't get any bigger than that. We didn't have access to the loads of information that we have access to right now. We didn't have access to what was happening 5,000 miles away from us and being so in tune with all of the troubles of the world. So we had a village, we had a community, and this community was shared with everyone else. We all helped each other within this community. I think like modern life is taking us away from that. We're able to communicate and connect with people thousands of miles away, but are we really connected in a deep personal way? So that's like number one. Number two is going to be, okay, well, what kind of foods did we have available to us back and let's just say the paleoethic days? And it's also, it's not just chicken, strip loins, and let's just say fish. - They ate the whole animal. So it's making my language, Dan, yes. - They ate the fish eyes. They ate the beef liver. They ate all of it. They made use of all of it. When they killed an animal, they turned their fur into pelts so they can cover themselves. And they were in tune with the setting and the rising of the sun. When they were waking up, the sun was waking them up. When they were about to go to sleep and they were tuning down, the sun was setting, and they were trying to tune in for going to sleep. I really do feel that our bodies have this fine tune machinery that we have gotten away from. Whether it's like the foods that we put in our bodies, the way in which we move and also our circadian rhythms, the way in which we sleep, the way in which we are. I think we are like the most advanced biological pieces of technology on the planet. But when we do things that go against that biology, we start to feel like crap. This is a reason why depression is out in all time high, why obesity is out in all time high. And also these things are directly correlated with each other. It's like when you have more fat on your body, that's the sign that your brain is probably not going to work as well as you think it's going to. So we have to go back to what made us feel human. That's going back to how we treat ourselves back then. And the cool thing is that when we pair that up with modern technology, whoa, we will actually be advanced cybernetic human beings as a result of that. - So two things, I'll go here first and then I got to follow up. But so first thing is, we talked earlier about getting ahold of your data, you know? And there's obviously lots of tech out there. You know, what's your talk kind of? If someone who is not measuring their stats right now, where would you recommend they start? - So number one is I would recommend something like this. I don't know if we can see that. - Oh, yeah, not really. What do you got? It looks almost like a pager. - So this is a pedometer. I just keep it on myself. - Oh, that's like school, pedometer? - Yeah, I'm trying to get away from the whole smart watch phenomenon right now. But I do think that they are good up until a certain point. And once you actually know your data, that's great. But I won't start wearing an aurora ring and then I stopped wearing an aurora ring because of like how it was affecting kind of like my everyday and just like perceiving the data that I was getting and that started to wear it again. Because I have made some changes to my sleep and I want to track exactly if those changes are correlating with the way that I feel. So I would say like getting a sleep tracker and wearing it for about six months to get your data and to find out what informs good sleep and what actually takes away from good sleep. That's fantastic. And also a pedometer, right? I think like one of the most underrated exercises on the planet is walking. Back then our paleolithic ancestors got 16 to 17,000 steps a day. The average American gets 4,000 steps a day. They're literally getting four times less steps and they're living this sedentary lifestyle. And one of the things that we employ with our clients is just like we have them walk. But we don't do it because we're like, hey, you got a burn fat, you got a burn calories. We do it because it is such a net positive for their stress and mental wellbeing. And also it boosts cognition and it boosts brain power. So there's a really cool study that came out in Japan where number one actually, Japan, when someone is depressed, the thing that they prescribe them is to go into the forest and take a walk. When it comes to America, the first thing they prescribe them is an SSRI. The thing is like walking has such incredible mood benefits especially when you do it outside. Yeah, I was just gonna say and being outside is key because a lot of people might go, well, just go walk on my treadmill. It's like, no, no, no, no. It's like that's not what you're talking about. - There is something about seeing fractals and seeing leaves and seeing water that have an effect on your eye system. And it just calms you down. And I think they call it force bathing down in Japan where they use this as one of the main modes of getting them out of the depression but just to walk in a forest and without your phone. One of the really cool things that I love to do, especially if I'm coming up against a problem inside of my life or kind of like I'm trying to fix like something complex, I will remove my phone. I'm gonna take a walk outside. I'm gonna bring a notebook with me. It's almost like you're getting in touch with your subconscious mind. You're just walking out there. You're letting your subconscious mind take care of it. All of these neurotransmitters are getting stoked because of the fact that you're moving and then miraculously you're like, that's so simple, I shouldn't do this. And you start writing it down. I find that walking, especially from a human standpoint, especially from just like feeling more human, that's probably the thing that is going to be the most underrated thing that anyone can bring into their lives. Now we said, walk outside. And I understand that some people, especially living busy lives and having work and all this kind of stuff, they might not be able to get the requisite amount of steps that they need. So a couple of things that you could do is actually work with modern technology. I know we said screw treadmills, but I mean like we can actually do like an under the desk treadmill while we do meetings. And we can turn like every single meeting or watching Netflix or looking at videos as like opportunities to walk and opportunities to get more steps. We actually employed this with one of our clients and we just turned all of his meetings into walking meetings. And then lo and behold number one, he's like dropped like 20 pounds, but the other thing was after he was done a full day of calls, usually he would be drained by the time the day was over if he was sitting. Now he's feeling energized. He's actually has more than enough energy to go play with his kids. He's like, hey, let's go to the park. Let's do this, let's do that because the movement of walking and just being in movement, constant movement all the time, that is what creates energy. So these bodies of motion stay in motion as they say. Having just a simple habit of walking is literally one of the easiest and most accessible things that most of us can do like 99% of us. And I do believe that it can be life changing when we integrate this as a part of our daily routine. I mean, right there, that's a different mindset, right? Like, oh, the output of walking more actually creates more energy. So the output of energy builds energy, which is the exact opposite of what a lot of people think. And what I love about that too is that, you know, in many ways people could be say right now, like, well, weren't you guys talking about not being extreme and putting like a treadmill under my desk and walking all the time, that's extreme. And I think this is what I hear you saying. And I believe this as well, which is, you can't sit there in judgment of the thing before you've done it because when you start to do it, it actually will build off of it. Like I always tell people like, for example, who are struggling with health, I'm like, well, just start with drinking more water, for example, because you're currently drinking juices and sodas and all this stuff. So just cut that stuff out and just drink water. That's all you're going to do. And that one thing ripples out into new things because now they start to feel different. And then that builds upon itself. Do you find that as well? - Yeah, when I, I mean, like I wasn't this fit guy my entire life and I was quite frankly degenerate. From like the time I was in grade five, all the way to like, I didn't graduate high school. That's how bad it was, right? Oh wow, way into my 20s. And I remember I was coming home from a rave, high off of my mind, off of ecstasy. And then I get home at like 6 a.m. I open the door and then I see my dad and he gives me like the most disappointed Asian father for you say you can never imagine. And then I'm trying to play it off and then I'm trying to be normal. I'm like, hey, where are you going? And he's like, I'm going to the gym. Just walks out, completely shuts the door. He's like, he's probably just like, I can't deal with this kid right now. And then I saw him over the course of six months, just go to the gym over and over and over. He was actually like, he actually gained a lot of weight while he was tending to his business, while he was growing his business. I saw him lose like 30 pounds off of his body and become metabolically healthy. Just being able to see that, I was like, okay, well, that's kind of cool. Then he actually was one of like the members of the month in his gym and he got like a month-long pass. He gave it to my brother, my brother Dan Wannets who he gave it to me. I was like, okay, cool, like I'm going to take this and I'm doing nothing. I'm just playing video games all day and I'm partying at night. I was like, worst case scenario, I'm going to see some hot girls and best case scenario, I get in shape. So I end up going to the gym and I do everything horribly and I just go like every single day. My whole thing there was like play around with the machines, do things that other people were doing and just show up to the gym. That's it, just show up to the gym. So I end up showing up to the gym, doing that over the course of a month and it completely changes my life, completely. We don't realize like how much exercise has this effect on our brains. So back then when I was a degenerate, I thought, oh, I'm not worth anything. Oh, I'm not good enough and like all this kind of stuff. I started to have positive thoughts in my brain. I started to have more energy. I started to be like, ah, you know what? Maybe I won't like go partying. What am I here for on this earth? What am I doing? I started to find out what exactly is my purpose, right? And it wasn't until I started exercising that became this entry level drug into massive self-improvement. And then after the 30 days, I end up like going into the change room and I'm like, okay, cool, like 30 days is over. Like what the heck is going on here? What do I do next? I end up going to change room, putting on my belt, I go in like one more notch, couple more, actually a couple more notches than I usually would be on my belt. And I was like, what the heck is going on here? Oh crap. And then that just like got me hooked. And I was like, okay, cool, like what can I do next? Like nutrition? Okay, what do I have to do for nutrition? And then after I like kind of fixed nutrition, I was like, okay, what do I have to do to like fix my sleep? And I always say that you start with one thing and then you evolve into other things because that one thing literally changes your brain and it gives you momentum and then you just tackle one thing at a time. And it just like leads you into having enough power and enough energy to like go tackle the next thing. This is incredible. I was going to ask you about, you know, how you got into this. But it's incredible to me that it wasn't out of someone shaming you or like, you know, verbally abusing you or were you? Oh, look at that face. Oh, yeah, I got shamed for sure. Okay, you were getting shamed. Okay, okay, all right. So maybe I should take that part back. But the point is is the way you just told the story at least was that your dad started taking care of himself and that model inspired you. It once that opportunity was there to go to the gym to actually go do it. Can we say that at minimum? 100% and I started off with this curiosity, which is really cool. But the thing about it is and I'm pretty honest about this is like I actually started off my journey with a complete hatred for my body. Is that the shaming you think? Yeah, just shame and security. Like, you know, they did the whole, I don't think they do shirts versus skins anymore in basketball anymore, but they always choose me for skins and in like my friends or, you know, my friends. I mean, like, they're my friends, but they would just be like, "Oh, look at your man sets." Like, "Oh, look at your man booths." And then I remember there was one time I was about to get in like a fist fight with like one of my friends 'cause we were at a camping trip and he just like completely just would not stop making fun of my body. And you know what, I started off with a lot of hatred, a lot of insecurity, a lot of shame. But I realized over the course of time that that is like so unsustainable. We have to evolve into like this deep respect that you have for your body. I don't think, I think energy is energy, you just use it, right? But I had to evolve from that to having this deep, reverent respect for what I put into my body, how I treat it, what it's doing for me, and actually like move into the love portion of actually loving myself. - We're talking about discipline. We're talking about finding these bliss markers of like feeling better about ourselves. But the reality is is that you could look at anything we're saying that has helped you as extreme. Like you could, you could label it that. But maybe what we're trying to say and maybe what I hear you saying is that it's not necessarily about labeling something extreme that you are doing regularly, but it's more about just the doing and being open to the effect of it. - And what is extreme man? What is extreme is being obese, considered normal and not being extreme? When we think about what's extreme and what's not. And when we think about the way in which we want to live our lives. Well, the average human being is metabolically unhealthy. The average human being is obese. The average human being is not really getting that much exercise and not getting that much sleep. Why would I want to be average? I don't know if I'm type here. I'm like, I love relaxation and I also love like, you know, pushing, but at the same time, like I don't crave to be average. So if like doing all these things and even like, I do some like really like crazy for my body. Like I, what's a crazy, what's an example? - One thing I tell people is like things I do from my sleep. Like one of the things I do is like mouth tape. So I don't breathe through my mouth and people like, oh my God, your tape from mouth isn't that crazy or you're not going to breathe? And like, and I'm just like, dude, I will do anything to give myself the compounding effect of better health and I will quantify it. I will track my data around it. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, I'm just going to throw it away. And that's the thing. It's like I am always on the search for just incrementally being a little bit better. And why would I want to compare myself to the average human being? Maybe I'm being labeled as extreme, but like what are we comparing ourselves to right now? What is extreme at this point? And also just in general, like the more that we just like, say things are like labels and I'm identified as this and I'm identified as that. It's like we automatically like put other people in ourselves into like this little box, this neat little box that doesn't really fit. We are vast and we are very complex human beings. We're very complex personalities. And the more that we identify with these particular types of things, the more that we're kind of like subsiding like what makes us human in the first place. All of us are unique. We have to say that and almost like respect the fact that that is what makes us human. All of us are different. The more a person says, "Oh, you're so extreme," or like, "Why are you so like this and that?" It's just like, "Well, that's the label that you're putting on me." That's not the label that I am accepting. - Yeah, that's such a good point. Now, so how does Dan go? The fitness guru, the entrepreneur, the person who's on social media. How do you face when things go bad now? Like, 'cause you just said, which is obvious, which is obvious, but I think a lot of people sometimes put people like yourself on pedestals. So you're human. What's different between the Dan go of today and how he handles that hardship versus that Dan go in his 20s who is just kind of playing games on his sofa? Like, how do you handle these things now? - Oh, it's just like embracing failure. The most important thing is the iteration process. So now I've kind of like, have a better relationship with failure than I did before. Before I used to look at failure as this thing where it's like, okay, if I failed, then I'm a failure, right? - Almost like you had a fear of failing. - Yeah, it's like there was this like fear of failing, which actually leads to not trying in the first place. - Yeah. - When the reality and the thing that I understand now is like, the more you fail and the faster you fail, the more that you keep on trying and try different things and kind of iterate differently, the more you get to the core piece of like the core achievement of what you want. And then this is actually very much related to getting your body in shape as well. The more that you allow yourself to fail and to try and to fail and to try out different things, to see things that work and to see things that don't, the more that you are allowing yourself to say, hey, guess what, I'm gonna take as long as it takes to get to where I need to be. I'm taking the long road, I'm taking the long path 'cause it's the shortest one. And the other thing is is that you want to rework your relationship to failure itself. Failure is not really failures, just an iteration that just didn't work. Imagine if Thomas Edison said, all right, after like one time of trying to like, you know, make a light bulb, I just like stopped and said, this is not for me. For me, it's more so about the relation to failure, making sure that I am constantly trying to do things that push me outside my comfort level and constantly trying to do things that allow me to, quote unquote, fail. And then the more that I fail and the more that I iterate, the better I'm gonna be as a human being. And I'm trying to fail as fast as humanly possible right now. - Well, I love that. I love that not, you know, losing the fear of failure and embracing it is so important. How has your fitness and habits, how have those changed since being coming to father? 'Cause you're a fairly new father. Your oldest is for how old it was here. - She's about to turn five and the youngest is about to turn two. - Yeah, so that's fairly new. I mean, you had a before kid, you know, entrepreneur, super whatever lifestyle. And now you have a post. So how has being a father changed how you treat your body and your mind and how has your lifestyle changed? - If I did not have my health routines set in place before I was a dad, then I don't really know where I'd be at this very moment. So, one of the things that changes is your schedule. Your schedule is pretty tight now. Before I was like, okay, well, I go to this gym three, four times a week, sometimes even seven times a week. And then now I'm just like, I need to get the most out of my workouts in about three sessions per week. And also, these three sessions have to be scheduled in my calendar. It's a weird thing for me or it was a weird thing for me because before I just have the freedom to go whenever I want. So now things have to be routine and also things have to be scheduled in. The other thing is also just like understanding that you are gonna go through more of the, let's just call it the obstacle of like eating things that you don't necessarily want to allow inside of your body. So, you know, we have all these like snacks and we have all this kind of stuff and then the temptation. So I need to actually set hard boundaries and constraints on myself now. One of them is like, I'm not eating past 6.30 p.m. I'm not. And that has saved me so much. You cannot believe how much that has saved me because if it were up to me and I had the, you know, I had carte blanche on doing whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, guess what? The worst food decisions happen after like seven or eight. Those are like the worst food decisions. So for me, it's making sure that I have a hard stop. I'm not eating past a certain point. And obviously there's exceptions. Like last time I just went to like Austin, you know, they had dinners that were started at sevens. I'm like, all right, well, I'm not gonna do it like while I'm in Austin right now. Cool, that's fine. I'm just gonna get back onto it when I get, you know, back into my hometown. The other thing is gonna be sleep and everything that we know about being a new parent and having sleep is that it becomes few and far between. Like it's very disjointed. I used to have like pure like 90s on my ordering and you know, when I had that, when a second kid came out, it was just like, as when, yeah, exactly. But now things are starting to get normalized. And yet at the same time, I still prioritize sleep. I still prioritize routine. As a parent, we all know when the kid goes to sleep, we have this window of time that we only have to ourselves. So like when the kids are down, you have like maybe one and a half to two hours. Now those one and a half to two hours, what most people do is they allow themselves to veg out and chill and that's totally cool. That's what I do too. I just make sure I have a boundary of constraint around my eating at least to say that hey, I'm gonna make sure I don't eat at a specific time, after a specific time. And I'm also gonna make sure that I am going and doing a routine that prepares me for bed at a specific time. And that is not gonna get extended past a certain point. We have to like have boundaries, guard rails, what Jen's ears call, adulting though. And we just have to have these. I mean, that's what this modern life is. Modern life is this whole thing where it's like, hey, guess what? You can have whatever you want. You can have Uber Eats and DoorDash here. How is that? Whatever time that you want. You can eat as much as you want. You can sleep whenever you want. So now what we have to do as responsible human beings and parents is to create this set of boundaries for ourselves and constraints that allow us to operate the way that we want to operate. - How does the unexpected affect your routine? So I know you mentioned the Austin thing, but that's a little different 'cause you're solo then going back to your family. So let's just say you have a night where your daughter wakes up in the middle of the night and it's crazy and it's completely unexpected. Do you still wake up at the same time the next morning? Go to the gym, do all the things you're gonna do or do you adjust because of the unexpected? - Well, it depends on what your personality is. I'm a creature of consistency and habit. It is both my gift and my curse of being consistent 'cause sometimes you can just be consistent at the wrong things and you can be overly consistent at the wrong things. So for me, it's always about getting back on the horse. I mean, I think the biggest muscle that we have to flex is number one, actually two big muscles. Number one is allowing yourself to be able to make exceptions but it's also having the muscle to get back on the horse. So let's just use Austin as an example. So Austin, I was eating at like 7 p.m. and I have the thing where I just like habit track and I've been habit tracking for a very long time. And those four days, I have a big block where nothing was done. And then the rest of the days are just like filled up. And I look at those days and I'm like, I'm actually proud of those days. And the reason I see I'm proud of those days is because after those four days was done, the blocks all filled up right after that. And I wanted to make sure I just like got back to the habit that I set for myself that constituted being in good health. At least for me, it's like the good boundary. So we have to allow ourselves to be able to make mistakes and also to have exceptions but we also have to have the constitution to get back to the thing that we said that we were committed to in the first place. Okay, last question. So what is one belief or behavior? You used to swear by and fitness or your personal development that you've completely flipped on and what shifted it for you. - I'm going to use one that I had recently. I actually created a blog post where or newsletter where I said that I would never take ozemic. And I still long, right? I still long. But I have softened my stance on the idea that everything pharma and everything medication is bad for you. I do see that a lot of people, I mean, I'm pretty big following. I see a lot of people who are getting a lot of benefit from these GLP1 medications. And yes, you see people who have like the crazy side effects and also there is this idea that as a potential for thyroid cancers and all this kind of stuff, I mean, yes. But I've softened my stance on being so all or nothing on let's just say modern medicine and understanding that there are benefits to having modern medicine. Maybe it's not like all modern medicine or nothing, but it's just having a little bit of leeway to say that, hey, guess what? There are people that are working on really important issues right now. They're doing their best to create these medications and these biotechnologies that may actually help us. So I had this whole, like, I was like, (beeping) pharma and kind of just like, so I was just like, oh, like all they want is to mass the symptoms and like all this kind of stuff. And yes, that is correct. Are, you know, let's just say the health system, (beeping) the insurance system, (beeping) the food system, (beeping) the food system. But I do believe that there are gonna be medications and also technologies that are gonna come that are already here that are gonna have a profound effect on increasing one's ability to live life. The core of it is like, I'm not all or nothing anymore. I'm allowing myself to have leeway to say, hey, what's up, there's gray areas here. But at the same time, I'm saying, hey, everything that you need to do is gonna be everything that we used to do as like normal human beings. But there could be certain people that can benefit from these particular types of medications and future medications that may come. - It's great, honestly, selfishly, to have an hour with you. So thank you for guesting on here. Do you actually see clients at this point or do you push people into programs like how can someone work with you? - Yeah, I have a coaching program. People can join the coaching program. And then that is where I'm able to help a vast amount of people. And in terms of like one-on-one clients, my roster is full, I only take on like five per year. But what people could do is, number one, I give out free information. I mean, that's what I do. Like everything that's working for us, I put online. So the best way to do that is go to dango.co. You can sign up for the newsletter right there. It's completely free. And we have 400,000 plus hyperformers on that newsletter. I think it's amazing. I put a lot of work into it. And I think people will benefit out of it by just like signing up for that. So I probably would point them in that direction. - Excellent. Wish you and your family continue to thrive and be together and find that balance. You're a beautiful model of balance. At least that's my experience for you. Thank you, Dan, for fighting the good fight. Helping people get more clarity inside themselves and on the outside. Thank you all for joining us on today's episode. Make sure to check out other episodes and please follow and share. Thank you again. - Thank you so much for joining me on everyday ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You could find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K dot com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.