Whoopi Goldberg Gets Real About Fame, Money & Marriage

Now listen, there are some people you grow up watching and then there are people who shape how you see the world. What be Goldberg is one of those people for me and I'm sure all of you. A woman of many firsts, someone who broke the mold, refused to fit into anybody else's idea of what she should be and in doing so, change what was possible for so many of us. Becoming the first black woman to achieve an egot status is just one part of that story. Because beyond the accolades, it's always been her honesty, her freedom, and the way she's shown up as her full self that has stayed with me. And for me, right now, feels like a full circle moment. So let's get into it. It's baby, this is Kiki Palmer and this is what be Goldberg. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Seventh Generation. I know I'm extra. They know I'm extra. We've made peace with it. But my cleaning products don't get to be extra. They get to work. Seventh generation keeps it simple, so I don't have to pretend otherwise. Let's get into today's show. Hey, gorgeous. Hi, gorgeous. I'm always so funny. We were talking about before we get into everything is how I don't remember meeting you. I just remember always knowing you in my life. I feel the same way. I feel the same way. And because I was looking and I'm thinking, you all grown up. Just like, I got all teary eyes and stuff. You know, it's like, oh my goodness. Because I've, yeah, I've known you a long time. Yeah, it does. Yeah, you know me forever, you know what I mean? So it's really cool to be able to have this conversation with you and get into all the questions that I've always wanted to know and ask. Well, we can't. But let me just give you your flowers. I've watched you work your tail off and evolve and work your tail off and evolve and work your tail off. And this is your moment. And I love seeing you in all the movies. I love seeing you here. I love seeing the progression. And I'm so proud to say I got to, I'm getting to watch this. I'm getting to watch it. It's so cool. Oh my gosh, I just love you so much. It means the world coming. And you know what I also think about when you're just saying this because I feel that you've always seen these things for me. Yes. Because even when other people really did not see it. And you weren't sure that you saw it either. Yes, I could not have even almost imagined all those things. But I remember in these specific moments, when I even I first started doing my character's sketch work with Lady Miss Jaclyn and you would always tap my hand and you would say, keep going. And you would just remind me to keep that you girl that meant everything to me. And finally, I'm writing that children book because you remember you told me that. Yes, I did. I'm fine writing that. So yeah, this is crazy because I feel like I forgot something important because what is your son's son? I'm a Scorpio. Oh, of course you are. Yes, of course you are. Yes. Girl, you are a Scorpio to the core. I'm a Scorpio. Scorpio. Wait a minute, you're double. I'm a double. So you're rising in your moon or whatever it is. It's double. It's double. Yeah, because you know. It's sad because it gets a bit much after a while. It's a lie. You know. So do you feel very Scorpio? What about you feels very arm-brand to Scorpio and what maybe doesn't? Well, I feel like I should care a lot more about stuff and I don't. You know, and in relationships, I'm fine while I'm fine and when I'm not, I'm not. Okay. You know, so it's just, it's very clear. And you feel like it's always been that way throughout your life. Or do you feel like that's how you evolved into like, but when you think about your early 20s, where you always kind of like, "Hey, it is what it is." You know, yeah, I, because I had my kid, you know. So I didn't have to, I didn't have a lot of, you know, playing around town. Fooled around. It was, you had to be decisive when you're, you know, when you're raising a kid in your single parent. And so I, it's always been very clear. My mom was very clear with me, you know. So I was able to evolve into whoever I became and whoever I am now. And the same with my kid, you know, it's like, when you have somebody who, who says to you, "Listen, your choices are your choices and you'll make them, they're not always going to work out." But if you stand behind what your choices and you can explain it, you don't have any problem. My mom always said that same thing. I think about that every time I make any decision in my life, could I stand behind you? Yes. If somebody were to find out that I did this right here right now, could I be okay with that? If not, why am I doing it? Yeah. You know what I mean? Or why haven't I just said, "Hey, this is what I did." And keep it moving because it's already done. It's not like you can undo it. Ex-yeah. You know. The reason that this was my life. And I'm not apologizing. This is what I did. I paid whatever dues or prices I needed to. And I don't have to explain it to y'all. Okay. You know. Yes. What would you say is your love language? Have you heard of this kind of thing before? Where it's like, it could be acts of service. It could be physical touch. Words of affirmation. How do you show love? And how do you usually receive it? I don't know. I thought about it. No, it's never been something that I've thought about. I just, if I'm showing you love, I'm showing you love. However it is, it's some, you know, you'll know it when you see it. It's so funny to me because I feel like sometimes you, probably most of the times, you're dead ass serious. Yeah. But it makes everybody laugh. Because I think what makes people laugh. Is the idea that many more people would like to be as I am. And they don't realize that it is your choice. You can decide to be who you are or you can follow other people. You know, if you know that if you realize that everybody's not going to understand or get you, as long as you can live with that, that's okay. You don't owe anyone an explanation unless you choose to give somebody an explanation. And it's so funny that we have such a hard time with that when even when we try to do everything right, still everybody doesn't love us. So it's kind of like, why do we even put ourselves in this strict bag? Because it's like, either way you do it. But why do we get the question is, why do you care? These are people who don't know anything about you. They don't know you. They don't know your life. They don't know your day-to-day struggles. They don't know anything about you. And yet, feel confident enough to pass judgment on you. Which is crazy. The question is, do I care what you think? And the answer is, no. I couldn't agree with you more, especially in this day and age where anybody can say anything about anyone and you assume that just because you're reading it on your phone or you're seeing it commenting on your page, that the person that says it somehow is a value more often or not, they ain't nobody you wouldn't be cool with. No. So why would you care? No. They think, you know. I think we've sort of become a human race that requires a lot. Affirmation. Yes. You know. Yes. And affirmations are good, but they are like drugs, you know. And you find yourself doing things to get that that pad on the back. And it's a lot easier. If you don't read people's comments, you don't need to read them. If there's something you need to know, somebody will tell you who's on your team or in your life. They'll say, oh, this is what happens. Or you say, I don't need to know any of this. I'm just putting the information out so people know what I'm doing. I don't care if they don't want to come, they don't have to come. I don't need to know that you mad at me and you not coming. I don't care. Right. Right. It's so true. I wouldn't know if you were there. Yeah, right. Because you were a stranger. A stranger. You and danger, girl. That's right. That's right. That's exactly right. Yes. That's true. What is a question you wish you were asking interviews? Or a question you're never asked that you'd be like, "Man, who's somebody to ask you about that?" Listen, after all these years, I don't know what they haven't asked me. You know, my broad size. Okay. But I don't wear one, so I wouldn't have an answer. You know, I wouldn't have an answer for that. In the words of your line, I want to be comfortable. Yeah. I want to be comfortable. I do not want to be uncomfortable anymore. And these are my, these are choices I make. Yeah. You know, I make those decisions. But still so fashionable. Too, it's so interesting when you sit there because you're also a fashion icon from your hair. Which makes me laugh. To your lipstick. I mean, everything about you can be emulated because it's so specific. But then it's due just kind of like, "Hey, you don't even really think about it." Like, what is your POV of fashion, and the fact that you are fashion? I can't just so many people. Well, I think it's so lovely for people to say that. But it wasn't always that way. There used to be a lot of talk in the old days about how odd I dressed because I wore sneakers to the Oscar. I'm so sick. You know, I didn't want to put my feet in those high heels. Some, when I want to do it, I do it. When I don't want to do it, I make, all right, you know, I put combat boots on under a gown. I don't care. Because I really don't want to be uncomfortable. in what I'm wearing, which is why the whole bra and underwear thing is, you know, is a choice, is a choice. Yes, that sounds so freeing. Well, it is, but there are certain things that have to happen. You have to become a person of a certain age where you're not worried about what your body is going to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can do that when you've a woman of a certain age, you can free it all up, but you have to wait. Yeah. Have to wait. Is there anyone that you've met that made you feel starstruck? Oh, almost everybody. Because you know what? I'm a fan of people. I'm a fan of actors. I'm a fan of directors. I'm a fan of writers. I'm a fan of dancers. I am I am the person who wants to see your show. Yeah. I come and I'm rooting for you because I want, I want you to take me away or I want you to write something that blows me. I just want to see, and I, if you, I don't know how long you're here, but I just saw ragtime last night. And when I tell you, it was great. Me and my, my parents were looking for a show to go see. This is, Kiki, this is one of the most exquisite musicals. And this cast, they're over at Lincoln Center. It is spectacular. I'm telling you go and see it because what it does is it, it, it gives you a really wonderfully general explanation of this country. Okay. How all the different people have come and how, how we try to avoid each other and how we just ended up mixing in with each other. Which is why we have so many different, I don't know, so many different languages, so many different feels, so many different looking people. Yeah. And she realized that people have always treated immigrants rather nastily. Mm-hmm. They've always treated women like DuDum, you know, all of these things. But in this piece, it all comes together. And it is, it was a great movie. It's a spectacular book, but this cast, this is one of the best things I think I've ever seen on Broadway, whatever. And they're not on Broadway, but they're at Lincoln Center. It is one of the finest pieces of work I've ever seen. I'm definitely going to be checking out the way that you've said this. Please go see this. I'm, I'm, I'm saying to everybody, it, it, you know, I love a good show. I love a great show. The voice is in this. Oh my god. And this, baby. Yeah. You, I mean, yes, it's heaven. I'm also excited because obviously you broke, you know, the mold with your one woman show in 1984 with the Wubby monologues. And you're actually getting ready to do a production again with five actresses. I'm not doing it. I was doing this. It's this Carrie Washington space. She's put it together. She put it together. And it's Carrie. It's Kari Young, Whitney White, baby. It's all these, it's these dynamic women. And she always, she makes a joke and says it takes five of us to do one show that she did. But it's not so. It is, these are all pieces that you could just do by themselves, which is why it's kind of exciting to see what they do with it. Yeah. Because the material is the material. But what you do with it and how you interpret it, this wire, I, I say, I'm not going to rehearsals. I'm not going, I'm not going to be anywhere until opening night. Because this is their show now. And I want to see what they do with these characters. Oh my god. Well, when you, when you put that together, did you really know that it was that great? Like, did you, because sometimes on artists is like, oh, this is the another time they're like, hey, this is just what I have to say. And then it becomes for you. What did you feel that it would have the weight that it has had all these years? No, but, but I knew that because I couldn't get hired, you know, at the old globe, I couldn't get hired at the Berkeley rep. I needed to put together something that showed what I knew I could do. You know, and so I, I had just come from Amsterdam where I'd spent some time. And, and I thought, because I ended up going to the Anne Frank House. And I thought, man, this is like insane. Yeah. And so going through there, I thought, oh, who is the, who's the person you would never think would tell you the story of the Anne Frank House and why it's important. And I thought, if I put it in the mouth of a junkie who has a PhD, you know, this, this is the person who can tell you what he saw and how it made him feel and how he wants to tell you how it made him feel and then leave it in your hands. You know, there's a disabled lady who she's, she's not disabled, she's differently able. That's the better word. Because I had a friend who said to me who was in a chair for years who said to me, how come you never do characters like me? I was like, because I don't want anybody to get mad at me. He said, I, I got you. You show me. And so about six, seven months, I thought about it. And I, I created somebody. And I did it for him. And he said, that's exactly what I wanted to say. I wanted to see somebody who recognized me as a human being with human desires and human wants and human needs. Because people see people in chairs and they feel like they don't have any, there's no life for them. But everybody's got life in them. Everybody, you know, so I, I wanted to do that. And then there's the, the lady from Jamaica who gets picked up by this very, very old man, who she ends up really falling in love with. And he's called the old raisin because he's very wrinkled everywhere. And he buys her what she calls a puzzle rug. It looks like a puzzle rug. But it's something from what used to be known as Fredericks of Hollywood. And they have this great passion. And then he dies. And he has left her everything. She had no idea. She'd been working for him for maybe two, three years. And then they kind of would hit and run and hit and run. And he left her everything. And it is the story of, of being open for anything. It's just anything is possible. So all of these things came in my head because there's always chatter going on. And so sometimes I, I could talk it and then get somebody to write it down for me. But it's really the constant, constant chatter. And so it'll be great to see how other people interpret that chatter and see where they go with it. When you get on a stage, what is the process? And do you, are you in your body the whole time? Or do you leave it? It depends on what I'm doing. If I'm just like I used to do Vegas a lot, I'd go and I, I didn't do the characters there. I would just do my rendition of stand up, which is just storytelling. So when I'm storytelling, I, there's bits and pieces of different characters, but not really. But when I'm in the character, I'm in the character. And whatever happens, it has nothing to do with me. It's them and they take over the body, you know. And I'm lucky that way because I, stage is very, is very comfortable for me. I love it. I think that you can fly on a stage, you can do anything. So I don't necessarily have to create a story. I just know where I want to start. Like I, I've begun to start working on maybe getting on stage, just doing a little bit of stuff because, you know, I just turned 70. And it is crazy. Nobody is more shocked than me. I know. Every time I say it, it's like I have, I'm repeating it for myself to make sure I get it. But I was, I was scratching my face and rubbing my face and I was like, wait a minute. Is this a whisca? I'm howling. Do I have a whisca? Now I started out. You know, with, with, what's the guy in, uh, he's the speaker of the house now, Johnson. I started out with Mike Johnson in my lab. Then I woke up one day and it would, and it was Paul Shaefer in my lab. And now Paul Shae, Mike Johnson's on my face. Because you know, he's got all that hair. So I started out with Mike Johnson in my lab, went to Paul Shaefer in my lab. And now Mike Johnson is on my face. Yo, we'll be pleased. You know, this is the kind of stuff that comes to me. I have nowhere. And was, I mean, you said before, you know, I'm, I'm looking that grew up in the projects that became the luckiest person on earth. - Yeah. - Were you doing this as a kid and not knowing that it was a skill or that it was a talent or a gift? - No, I was watching an absorbing because my mother and her cousin, Arlene, would do characters to each other. They would be talking such (beep) about people. They'd be talking about, oh my God. And they would, and they did every group, every sex. They would just, they'd be men, they'd be women, they'd be just talking to each other, just talking about what somebody was doing and telling stories to each other. And that was all going in my head. And my brother was funny. My brother was Clyde was funny. Clyde was very funny. So I grew up with people who were much funnier than I was. But what I figured out is they poured all of that into me and I got us over the line. - Oh, yes, I got us over the line. 'Cause I always talk to people about my family and people assume that when I met my family, I'm the loudest one, I'm the most talkative one. No, my family is full of characters. My dad is one in nine boys, all crazy, kooky folks. And those are the people that I am emulating. - Yes, my love, my pride for them, whatever visibility that was not accessible to them becomes through, comes through me. - You know, get them over the line. - Yes, yes, wow. Your mother has said, or you quoted your mother, Emma saying, cry about what you don't have or figure it out and then go do it. - Yeah. - And you said something earlier on in the conversation that I really, I really want people to, especially creatives and just entrepreneurs to understand, because you said, when you decided to do the monologues, it was because no one, you needed people to see what you were, but that means you invested your time, you invested your money, you were the person that stepped in first. And I don't know that everybody understands that, hey, that's what it takes. - Well, that's what it is. If you're not getting what you need, then create what you need and hand it out, let folks see it. There's all of these, there's YouTube channels, there's Instagram and, you know, ex or whatever. And all these places you can begin to show your metal, whether you are a physical artist, whether you're a vocal artist, whether you're a stand-up, there's a wonderful kid who is on Instagram. I don't know his name, but I do follow him. He's now in commercials with Swiffer. And it was like, well done, well done, because people don't know if you don't tell them. If you don't show them, they have no idea. And now we have the ability to show people, you know, and you can't expect it to happen overnight. You gotta, it's a long process. - It is. - You know, and it ain't always fun. - It's so true. And I find myself, and I've seen you talk about it as well, because people want to know, people want advice, but they always don't, they don't always want to know the truth about what gets them over the line. - Yeah. - You know, and I know people did the whole first on the call sheet and all these different kinds of things. The main thing that I'm always saying is like, you gotta produce what's there. And while we're fighting for more money and we're fighting for more things, you also have to know that it's going to take you. It's going to take you, I wish it were different. I think, you know, I would love for it to be, people just coming up and we getting this and it's that, but it actually isn't true. How do we help and tell the truth and get people prepared and set up without it seeming like, we're not trying to change things. - You know what I mean? - Well, it's always like this. It's like this, I think, just in life. People, you know, you hear people saying, and you guys, you're the older generation, and you didn't fight for this, and you didn't, it's like, I'm sorry. Sit down. - Literally, though. - We did fight for this. - Yes. - You know, they talk about being what we would never sleep. Women that I grew up with were never asleep. So you can't wake them up. They've had to always be on point and know what they were fighting for. - Yes. - And how to fight for it? Because you can't just go out and smack people. You have to explain, and it's a pain in the ass. - It is. - But you have to explain to people why this is what you want. And they're not always gonna give you what you want, but they can't lie and say, I had no idea. You have to be able to temper yourself because we always think everybody knows everything, but they don't. - 'Cause they don't think about you, really. You know what I mean, hey to say it, but it's like, they're not. So it's like, if you're thinking about you, you've got to be willing to do the thing. - You've got to do it. - And it's so funny because I remember for me personally, when I was doing my sketch work, when I was creating these characters, when I identified the character of Kiki Palmer making her way through in comedy, I did a series called That's the Gag, an awesomeness TV, Brian Robbins. For, you know, this is, for YouTube, this is not, I'm a traditional actor. People were commenting on my page. This is crazy. You need to go back to, you need to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, 10, 15 years later. - Uh-huh. - Maybe it's Kiki Palmer. It's opening up SNL. This lady, Ms. Jacqueline, has her own IP. And what I always try to tell people is that nobody saw it then though. Remember the whole amount of the moment. They just were mad. - Now wait a minute. - They were mad. - Now wait a minute. - 'Cause they didn't think of it themselves and they didn't have the balls to do it. That's the other thing. You gotta be ballsy. You can't, you have to be this idea that, you know, you're trying to, you know, woohoo, no. This is who I am and this is what I do. Here it is. Period. - I mean, how do people stop asking for permission? You, I mean, again, my heroes, the people that I look up to are people like you. You, you know, you did that. I watched you. I studied you. I wanted to be my version of that brave person. Were you really just, oh, did you never, was there never a moment where you asked for permission? And if you had to figure out how to, how did you do it? - I think I, I must have asked for permission at some point. But I don't remember it being important enough to hold on to because if I ask you for permission, I've wasted seven minutes talking to you, trying to explain what I want, when I could have just gone and done it and then showed you what I wanted. They just showed it to you, you know, but so, you know, and just, you know, you get a lot of nose. You get a lot of nose, a lot of nose. Or you're not quite what we're looking for. It's like, well, how do you know that? How do you know what you're looking for? If you don't expand your horizons, you will only look here. And that's kind of what they're hoping to do. And this is really about women. This is about color. It's about lots of different things. - Yes. - But it is really, you know, we, no woman is going backwards. No woman is going to go backwards. We, you, you let the cat out of the bag. - Yeah, yeah. - As soon as you said, hey, you can go to college. You know, I don't have to, women went to college, women started workings, women took over a lot of stuff. - Yeah. - A lot of people got mad. That's what we're, you, it's like, yeah, me. You know, then you've got all these people, all these young people coming up and they're saying, hey, well, why do we have to pay attention to this? Because if you don't, it will disappear. That's why. - That's so real. - That's so real. And the concept of how we fight to maintain something and have the stamina to sustain it. It's difficult in these times. Because you feel like, man, we ain't nobody going backwards. And then you see actual government things, actually trying to put us backwards. - Yes, but here's the, here's the fabulous thing about a story telling people of which we are and Native Americans are, the Irish are. They would tell a story. Because we are an oral people, you can take down as many signs as you want to. That's not going to stop us telling the stories. We know our history. The Irish know their history. The Japanese know their history. The Chinese know their history. Black folks know their history. Women know their history. You can't stop the oral part. 'Cause that would mean you'd have to get into our brain and shut it down. - You can't do that. - You can't do that. People need to remember why it's important to always talk about what you know, who you are, where you've been, Native Americans. They know, they know their history. They know how they saved us in World War II with the code talkers. It's not on the, take it off any wall you want to. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And as long as we can talk, We will continue to tell those stories. And you can run and hide and pretend they're not missing. but it doesn't mean they're not. - Yes. - So don't sweat that stuff. I don't sweat it anymore. - That's very empowering. It is, especially when you feel like they're you know, I'm always trying to figure out, you know, and look, the thing about it that I've also had to understand and realize is that there's not much that I can really do. Obviously I can do and know this great quote, I always say it from Mother Teresa. No great things can be done. Just small things with great love. So it's perspective is always a, I'm always looking for the perspective that helps me just to see my way out of something, you know. What is something that your family knows about you that you feel the public maybe still doesn't get or you know, doesn't understand. - Oh. (laughing) - So much. (laughing) So much. ♪ Baby this is, can you call my yeah ♪ - I am by every definition a lot. My outfits are a moment, my reactions are gurgh. I've been called dramatic in three different group chats this week alone and every single time I said correct. That's just who I am. And honestly, I've made peace with it. But somewhere along the way I learned there's a difference between extra where it counts and extra where it's just showing off. And my old cleaning products were absolutely showing off and doing more to cover up than to actually clean. Girls sit down. So I switched to seventh generation. Bio-based cleaning power that handles the job without the theatrics plus no dies. Artificial fragrances or bottles full of ingredients auditioning for a part they didn't get. It just works and it doesn't need to announce itself while it's doing it. Seventh generation provides a powerful clean without anything extra. So if you already bring the extra to the function, make the switch today to seventh generation. A powerful clean without anything extra. - My son Leo sees everything. I mean that literally. The kid misses nothing. Every detail, every person, every moment that most adults would walk right past, he is fully present for all of it. Traveling with him has genuinely changed the way I move through the world because he reminds me to actually be in it. And what I've learned from traveling with Leo is that the best trips aren't about where you go. They're about what you're dropped into when you get there. A neighborhood that has character, a home that has a backyard and a kitchen and a living room big enough to actually live in. A super host who points you toward the coffee shop and the park and the spot that doesn't have a sign but absolutely should. When I book a stay on Airbnb for us, it's not just finding a place. I'm building the world he gets to explore for those few days and watching him explore it. That's the best part. This is Leo's summer. Find a home on Airbnb and build that world for your kids. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the version that is on the way somewhere locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees the Starbucks and just turns, mid-striped with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors. These mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth and a butterfly pea flower and fusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week because it might be. One small choice can lead to old chiff. Unlike your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks, order now on the app. The public kind of, the public gets me. They don't always like me, but they get me. Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting seeing you on the view and you're constantly, what made you even want to get on that show? Because that job, you know what I mean? I needed a job, Barbara offered me a job. She said we just lost one of the people on the show. Would you consider coming over? And I had been doing a radio show. Yeah. And I said, absolutely, yeah. And so she brought me over and it's like I've been crazy glued to that chair. Oh my gosh. What do you love about it? Wait 'cause I mean, first of all, the show is called. I love the check. I can only imagine what the check is. No, no, you can't. No. Trust me, you can't. I love that. I will be. I will be. Welcome to the view. I can play her, guys. No. Yeah, but as soon as they showed you that check, you'd be like, what the fuck? That's incredible. Yeah. Well, I love that. Praise God. Praise God. It is what it is. But you are always bringing it. Like you could phone it in, but you're always having a POV. You're always giving your view. It's sometimes that puts you on the front lines of being attacked or praised, but you've been doing it forever. But what do you say is the way that you maintain, you know, that kind of visibility? I look around every day before I leave my house and I see my family and I see pictures of folks and I think, oh, yeah, it's good to have a job and I come to work. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause at the end of the day, a lot of people don't, a lot of people don't have jobs right now. Yeah. So I'm lucky. I like to talk. I like talking about stuff. I like people. And I'm okay with what I think I believe, you know, and I don't mind doing that. And even when it irritates people, it's not what the show is. It's not irritation necessarily, but it is called the view. Yeah. Scratches your mind. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious because every comedian that I, or somebody, people that can consider a comedian or a comedic actor, or someone that jokes is always very intellectual. You know, they have so, it's always so much more than what the joke is presented. And so it just makes me ask to you, why do you think comedy is very rarely seen in the same prestige of drama, meaning like I think about the Academy Awards and I think about the character work that comes with some of these things that we just consider a silly comedy. And I just wonder why, why is it, why is it not, it's so hard to make somebody laugh and it's so hard to take a real situation and make it funny. I think it's, you know, because it's subjective, what you like doesn't necessarily go with what I like. I loved that the two Academy Award, two Academy Award winners this year were in horror movies. I feel similarly about horror. I'm a horror movie. Yes. Because John Wright, it's a comedy and horror, our similar touch point of helping you to, it penetrates you in a way for you to take something deep in. Well, it's this, I mean, it's, it's all one thing. It's your emotion, you know, it's just, it's just your emotions. But I like the thrill that I get from something like the exorcist. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, I just, I just, I just really like that. And so watching Michael B portrayed two people that was so good at movie and win and win. You know? I was thrilled. Come on, and Amy Madigan, uh, that weapons role, baby, talk about character. Yes. That lady was jumps here all the time. And she is, she is, shout out to Ed Harris, good, uh, an actor as you can find. It's fabulous. But Amy is no joke. Come on. I mean, talk about range, Uncle Buck. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yes. Yes. It's, it is just, you know, it's like they, they used to say comedies never win, you know, but they share one. Yeah. And I want. Yeah. And so it's subjective. Yeah. Something that I always think about because I just, again, I just love comedy, um, but speaking of, of your characters, how many, and just what we've been talking about about carving your lane out, how many of your roles were written for you where they were like, hey, two. A couple of purple, that color purple, damn, that was so. It was great. Yeah. Men O'Mayor wrote that and he wrote that with me in, in mine. I just can't with you, because it's just too much. And I think about you and your work, it is like seeing so many different people. It's like actually brand new people. The fact that that person is the same person in goals and that's the same person as the, it's, I would like to think that. One of my favorite actors would be very happy to hear you say that. Marlon Brando. Cause people would say, amazing, you know, you see, you go to see the movie, you see Marlon was in it, you see him for a second and then he disappeared into the character. That's what I want. That's what I want. And so, you know, when I was, um, when they were casting ghosts, I found out about it because somebody came to lunch at my house and said, girl, I just been into this audition. Every black woman and their mama was there. They got women out the grave to come in audition for the movie. And I hadn't gotten a call. - Out the grave. - Out the grave. I mean, it was like, it was wonderful. Beverly Todd. I was told he was Beverly Todd. She said, they, child, they came out to grave. And I said, what movie is this? So she tells me, I said, oh, she said, you having her? I said, no, nobody, nobody said anything. And then after we finished having lunch and stuff, I thought, well, let me, let me just call my agent and see. It, did I miss it? - Yeah, yeah. - And I blew it off for what? He said, I said, do you know about this movie that every black woman, and I heard him just go, oh, who told you? And I said, my friend, Beverly Todd. So he said, I said, what's the matter? He said, we suggest you they didn't want you, 'cause they felt you would take people out of the movie. I said, how would I take the matter of the movie? I mean, I don't understand. And they said, well, you know, and as it turns out, the casting director had been saying, you need to call, you need to talk to Wippie Goldberg, you need to talk to, and they wouldn't do it. And then they hired Patrick Swayze, and I was in Alabama shooting Long Walk Home with Sissy Spasak. And an AD comes and says, you have a phone call so you have to run, 'cause in those days there's no cell phone. So you gotta walk all the way over to the office. - I'm howling. - And you pick it up, and you, which line, oh, you hit the line, you say, hello, and it's my agent. He says, you remember that movie they didn't want you for? I said, yeah, it said, well, they hired someone, and he's gonna be the lead, and he wants to be in it with you if it interests you. I said, oh, okay, do they know I'm down in Montgomery, Alabama? So, yeah, they're willing to come down there. I said, who is it? He said, it's Patrick Swayze. It's Patrick Swayze and the director want to come down to see you. And I said, okay, so they came down, and Patrick and I hit it off right away, because he's just a really funny, wonderful man, and I love the director. And the next day, after they left, 'cause they literally flew in, we had some fun, and did some improv and work together. And the next day, they offered me the part. And he kept saying, why haven't you called it? Did she turn it down? Did she not want to do it? They were like, and they finally had to say to him, no, we thought it would be too much for her to say, it would just weigh it down in a way we didn't want it. People are so crazy. Well, you know, they, I guess they thought, I don't know what they thought. - They don't eat them. - But the casting director, who I love, and I'm picking myself because I don't have her name at hand, but she was, she had been my champion all the way through, and when they finally hired me, she said, you see, I told you. Another story of you advocating for yourself though. What happened with Sister Act? - Which one? - You were getting into the role. - It was for Beth. They wrote that for Beth Middler. That wasn't mine. - How did you get up there, take that lady movie? - I didn't take it. (laughing) - I was looking for work. - That's crazy. - I was looking for work, and everybody always has the- - I was looking for work. - But it's true, because apparently I'm black. (laughing) - Yeah. - And I guess I didn't realize it. - Okay. - So every time I went looking for something, they were like, oh no, no, no, no, this isn't for you. So I started, and I said to my agents, give me all the stuff that people have turned down. So I got burglared that way, because that was Bruce Willis' movie. Jumping Jack Flash was Shelley Long's movie. There's several, a whole bunch of movies. - Okay, y'all call it, what's the (beep) Jennifer Lawrence didn't want? Yeah, yeah, send it to me. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. - Because I felt like people really wanted to make those movies, and then the person they wanted said, no, let me see what I could do. That's why I loved when you said, you know, you did this and this and this, and it was always different people. I was always the character that was written. And I think because people, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, had a limited idea of what could be done. - Yes. - And had a limited idea of what I could do, 'cause clearly they hadn't seen my show, so they didn't know. So I did them, and you know, listen, they didn't always work at the box office, but when they got on television, people lost their minds, 'cause people didn't always have money to go see the movie. - Yeah. - I see it on TV, and that's how we got a lot of my movies have become these kind of classics, because people went, oh, that's what that was about. - Mine as well, none, even this early, even the first of key would be a lot of people think about a key would be, is this iconic classic hit, tanked in the box office. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's why this whole thing with success, and to me, real impact is truth consistency over time. Visibility is not always a part of that. Every body might not be talking about you all the time, 'cause the work stands. - Yes. - There you go. - Yeah, no. - That's it. - You are the first woman and black woman to host the Oscars solo in 1994. The first black woman to achieve Egot status. The first black woman to win a Grammy for Best Comedy Recording, the first black person to score Academy Award nominations in acting and supporting acting categories. The first black woman to receive the Mark Twain prize for American humor, the list goes on and on and on. People often, obviously, bring up these things when they say your name. And it must, I just wonder from you. Does it really resonate? Like when you hear that and think about everything that you've done, what flashes in your mind? How do you view? - You really wanna know? - Yes. ♪ Baby it's this, can you call my yeah ♪ I've said it, I've heard it. We all know the saying, "You need to go see that lady." And sometimes, you know, we give an excuse. I'll do it later. It's probably too expensive. What if it doesn't help me? Meanwhile, we're still struggling and somebody's worried. But with some research, I found out about Rula. It's a real healthcare company. Sessions average about $15 with insurance and they tell you that calls before you book. Providers are vetted, outcomes are tracked, and the majority of patients report genuinely feeling better. You can find someone who specializes in exactly what they're going through. Don't talk yourself out of therapy because you think it'll cost too much, won't work, or you have no idea where to even start. And trust me, that advice goes both ways. If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, then head to rulea.com. That's r-u-l-a.com and take the first step. So I need to talk about something that has been taking up a lot of my mental real estate lately. I started casual. I just stopped in, wasn't even planning on it. And now, now I'm thinking about it in between meetings, telling people about who didn't ask. This is a tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. And I am fully aware of how it sounds right now. Guava and patch and fruit flavors. Mango, pineapple flavored pearls at pop. And this butterfly pea flower on top that shifts the color of the old drink right in front of you. It's beautiful and delicious and mesmerizing. I don't know where this is going, but I'm not asking questions. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app. (upbeat music) The flashes in my mind is, is this gonna help me pay my rent? Is this gonna pay the mortgage? I mean, 'cause then, you know, listen, every accolade I've received, I am grateful for. Yeah. But it doesn't always translate into. You better speak the truth about this. Yes, it doesn't always translate into work or people. You know, it's nice that I have all those things, but do I constantly have to say to people, you know, I'd like to work with you. Yeah, 'cause I'm not, I'm not, I don't come right up in your mind. I'm not the first one you think of. So I constantly say to people, yes, I'm still open for this. And especially now, 'cause people say, well, you're on the view, you can't do anything. You know, if I need to go, I go. Okay. If I need to go. But it'll tell you. It's interesting because we have these concepts of traditionalism and what is most prestigious. And a lot of times, people get wrapped in that. Well, because you are an Oscar-named actor, you can't do this and blah, blah, blah. Would you even, and then you're talking about paying the bills and money, I mean, would you say the view is the best paying job you've had over the course of all the things you've done? No. Oh, it isn't okay. No. That's T, no. But I'm just, I bring it up to just say that I think a lot of times we assume that what we think is the most prestigious or what we think is the most dope for our title also resonates to what we're receiving in our pockets. No, you know, the truth of the matter is, very few of us are actually making the kind of money who are reading about, you know. - I know. - It's just, that's just the way it is. And, and, you know, people always do wink-wink and I'm like, no, no, wink-wink. 'Cause if I had that kind of money and I love my job, I don't know that I'd still be doing it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, doesn't it be good? - You know, I don't know that I'd still be doing the show. But, a girl's got to eat and, you know, I never married well. - So, I still have to support myself. - Yeah, a period, a period. - Yeah. - It's so real, we too. I ain't married, but I don't know how would it go if I do. - Well, just always remember that it's important that you marry somebody that you like, who makes you happy and will annoy the hell out of you, but that you always make sure you have what you need. - Also, it's no, it's no, put down on your husband or your wife or whatever your mind is, but you always have to have your little portion of the sky. - Yes. - You know, this is my, the hell with it money. You know, that's not what I was going to call it, but I do not sure how far you can go with the words. - Okay. - This is your hell with it money. You must always have your own hell with it money. - My mom always told me this. It is very important. It's important for your own well-being, because somebody said this to me years ago, it's all fun and games when people say yeah, that man has to have this, he has to have that, he has to have this. But what happens if he dies? And all his money goes to his other family, or his kids, or to his mother, or whatever. You have to have yours. You have to have yours so you can survive, no matter what happens. And that is always stayed with me. Always stayed with me. Make sure you take care of what you got to take care for yourself. - As an artist. - Yes. - And when we're constantly, you know, 'cause I'll say this for me, not everything, but more often than not, I could see myself doing what I do for free. I love talking to people. I love performing. I love entertaining. All that's fun and that's enjoyable. But the reality is, is we have to eat, we have to live our lives. How does one, because obviously the industry's never gonna value of your true value, no corporate, no industry ever could do so. So how do you measure your value? How do you know when it's time to ask for money? And when it's time to actually, the relationship is more important here that might turn into something more. Like what are the ways in which you know when maybe this job isn't gonna be about the money, this job is gonna be about the work. How do you measure it? - Well, you know, I have friends who make movies and I do a little piece in their movies. I just did, you know, you needed some, so I did it. You know, and then there's the things where you say, "Listen, you want me to do this and this and this and you only give me this. That's not gonna work for me." And you have to be able to say, "I need this." And you have to know and you have to, you know, you have to fight and you have to, you know, put up with folks saying, "Well, you know, I could get somebody else." You have to be able to say, "All right." - Yeah, that's true. That's true and however they may take it, I had a thing like that happen where I had to, you know, step back and I, you know, respectfully did so, but also knew that it might affect the relationship. I don't know, but this is what's working for me. - Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, we're taught for some reason or we have been taught and we're still teaching people that there's something wrong with saying, "I need you to pay me." - Yeah. - Like you're not supposed to do that. But the truth of the matter is, you know, you got stuff to do. Now don't get me wrong. 'Cause I like the fun of things in life. 'Cause I'm a boozy kind of girl. - Okay. - So I do make sure that my boozyness is taking care of. - Yeah. - But you must always ask for what you want and sometimes you got to negotiate and you've got to meet in the middle. - Yeah. - But you, it's up to you to say this is what I need. And when they say yes or no, you say okay. Well, if this is, if this is where we are, here's where I am now. - Right. - Yeah. - And I think, you know, in my mind, it's like that could go either way. - Yeah. - That could go either way. - Not wrong or right. Not necessarily right, I should say. But it is the cards that were dealt as artists, as people, even just as artists. This is my favorite quote from you. - Okay. Let's make sure it's one of my quotes. 'Cause you know there's a lot of-- - I hope this is. - Because this is one of my favorite. I don't want anybody in my house. - Yes, except it wasn't said like that. - What was it said? - No. - I said I didn't want to live with anybody. - Yeah. - I just don't, I don't want to live with anybody. - So why do people get all, you know, so I feel the same way. - Yeah. - I mean, I live with my sisters and obviously my son, that's one thing, you know what I mean? But why is it so crazy when women say stuff like that? - I think because people want you to believe that you need to be in a relationship. - Why do they want that though? - I don't know, but I am in a relationship with my family. They are enough. They drop their stuff everywhere. They do all the stuff that you know, I don't need that. I don't need somebody. I kind of just met like 10 years ago, whatever. I don't need them in the house. I'm just, I'm barely dealing with all the family in the house. - Yeah, yeah. - So that's why they don't live with me. - Yeah, I also feel like, like I love love. I'm always open for love, platronically, romantically, hopeless romantic, all that kind of thing. But, and this is through obviously trial and error and experience. I just have realized that I don't value connection if it doesn't allow me to be my full self. I don't want to feel in any relationship. And this is why I'm so grateful to have the family that I have, they'd let me be me. That doesn't mean I don't consider them. That doesn't mean I'm not respectful. That doesn't mean that I don't center them when the moment calls for it. - Yeah. - But there is this idea, not everybody, right? But I think, you know, majority is that love has to cost you you, that there's this idea that in order to have true connection, your expression of your love, your expression of engagement is simply not enough. - Well, it's probably, that's probably true. This is why I'm not interested. - Yeah. - Because I don't want to have to think about you. I don't, I don't want to have to think about what your needs are, why you're upset. I don't want to have to answer questions about why you're mad at me. I, you know, I'm happy for you to be at your house. I love a hit and run. - Okay. - I love a hit and run. - And also some of the things that you're mentioning in my mind, I wouldn't even put them on anybody else because that's my (beep) - Yeah. - Whatever happened to, it's my duty to make sure that I'm happy. It's my duty to make sure that I'm okay. It's my duty to deal with, you know, but, you know. - Well, I wrote a book called, "If someone says you complete me, run." Yes, because it's, that's not the, that's not what I need from you. I don't need to complete you. I just need to do, I need to do me. And I need not to feel bad or to make myself less than in order to make you feel better. - Like it just doesn't make sense. - Well, it makes sense to lots of people 'cause lots of people do that. Lots of people let themselves be diminished by their partner. And I don't think that's a good thing for anybody. This is one of the reasons for me that I'm, I, I don't mind being, not attached. - Yeah. - I'm okay being not attached. 'Cause I love lots of, I love lots of people. - Me too. - Lots of my friends. I love them to pieces. Maybe a couple here and that. (laughing) But, but not, you know, not that thing that, and I tried, I tried to be married several times. I tried to like do it. I kept thinking I'm doing this wrong. And what I was doing wrong was trying to be not me, but what they wanted, the me, they wanted me to be. And it was too, you know, and I'm very cranky. So I get just very busy, very busy, that it's like, I can't do this anymore. - That's me. - Cool. - Yeah. - And that's me too. And I feel like again, you know, when I say the things I say, a lot of times people think that that means that I'm not hope for, that I'm being bitter or that they put all these negative attributes to it, but I'm just, I just love how you speak to these things, these conversations. Tressie Ellis Ross also speaks about it too, where why does a different ending than what you expected mean that it didn't work out? Just because somebody likes being on their own. Doesn't mean that they don't like connection. It doesn't mean that they don't have connection. It just means that there's a different way to live your life and what if that is okay? you don't get married. It doesn't last. Why is that so? Well, listen, anytime somebody tells you about getting married, you just remind them that Goldie Han and her husband, Kurt Russell, have had this magnificent relationship for years and they didn't get married. So it can work. It can work. It requires you to put the effort in if that's what you want. Yeah, I love that. I just love hearing that and I love getting those, having those conversations so that I think other people need to be encouraged that it's okay. It's great to have love. We all love having sex more of that. But, you know, on the other side of that, it's just, you know, there's so many other ways to fulfill your life too. Well, yes. And don't forget, and you don't know this yet, but you will, it will come to you at some point. Sexing everything. It lasts. It's wonderful. It's wonderful while it's happening. But there has to be more to whatever you're doing than just that. Or just call it what it is a hit and run. Hit and runs, as I said, are fantastic. But if you are going to involve yourself with someone, it should be in a wider scope, because they may not always be able to fulfill what you need. Does that mean the relationship is done, you know? So it's yeah. You're all the new toys that are out there. Please get a toy. I remember there was another good advice you had told me where you said, I don't know what I had said. Maybe something like they don't know how to play something about pleasing. You was like, you must know how to please yourself. That's true. I was like, that was right. Yes. You must know how to please you. Because how can you tell anybody else what to do if you don't know? Girl, when you said that, I went to work. That night. Go. See? I want to play this game with you. But also, I also want to mention that you've always been in a candidate's space. Yes. Which I think is simply fabulous, whether it's, you know, topicals for pain and just always pushing it. It's so great to see how far it has come. You know what I'm saying? I remember when I was in it now, it's like you can go right into the storage and get it. Yeah. And it's a wonderful thing because you can actually say the name of the plant. You know, everything that's in that plant. Yes. You know, and it comes out of the ground. It grows and I'm all for medicine that is good for your body. You know, that and I like things that get you high as well. But my focus is more on the medical aspect because lots of my friends have had cancer and I've watched over the years that it is a great way to keep people eating when they're going through chemo. Because you know, a lot of times people stop eating because they're nauseous and stuff. But with the cannabis, it helps them keep their appetite, which helps them keep their weight. Yes. So it's for me. It's a, it's a real boon. But I'm a big fan of it. Yeah. I am as well. Something that we had talked about before and I meant to come back to it when we were talking about the money and stuff. Because I'll say for me, this is one of the main reasons I've diversified. And I can beg and I can kick and I can scream to my industry and say, pay me more for this and pay me more for that. But there's a certain thing as precedent because a lot of times, the only, the only thing we're talking about is banging, banging, banging and then hand out. It's never, here's how to get around it. Here's how to make it work for you. Here's how to set your boundaries and create the landscape. And so I just find myself, when I hear the conversations, wanting to talk about the other side of it, doesn't mean that I don't agree or understand their POV. But, you know, this is a reality. Listen, everybody will do what they need to do to get what they need. You know, if this is what you got to do, this is what you got to do. You know, it's always great to have allies who can help. You know, it's always great. But you will have to say it every time. You have to, you have to say it always. And I was chuckling because I was thinking about what we made when we made color purple when near that scale. Yeah. You know, so it's, it's, you know, so listen, get what you can. Make sure you can back up what you need. You know, and keep the fight up and it's going to be a fight because we're not going to be, for some reason, I'm not really sure why because it used to be, well, you don't, you don't sell overseas. Well, that's where all my people overseas. Okay. Yeah. So you say, well, that doesn't really make sense. You can say you don't have the money. You don't want to pay me. That I can deal with. But don't tell me it's because of this because I know that's not so. Yeah. So you, you ask for what you ask for and you make a decision. Can I do this for this? Yeah. And I don't. And I think that's what I like to spend more of my time on. And that's why I was talking so much to you about, you know, the roles that we're actually made for you as opposed to the ones you had to fight for because I just want people to make it. And I don't want them to think that it'll ever get easy. That's what I feel like a lot of times there's this idea that you want to ask her. Work is done. Yeah. You did a blah, blah, blah. You had to hit movie. Work is done. Yeah. It's just simply not true. And sometimes if you know the truth, you might say this ain't funny. Well, here's the other thing that you have to keep in mind is that there is a hierarchy. There are men. And then there's black men. And then there are white women. And then there are black women. And the, the scale is not equal, but it never has been. It was never equal. I don't think Betty Davis made as much as Clark Gable, man. You know, and I don't think how do you make Daniel made as much as Joan Fontaine made. So it's always, it's always going to be you're always going to have to fight for you. Always have to fight for what you want. You don't always get it. They don't always get it. And it is a company. And the company's thing is to make money for their people. Yes. You're just a, you're part of it. Yeah. You know? And so, yeah, if you best try to get what you can get. And, and if you get more than you thought you would, yeah. Yeah. You know, and keep moving forward. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Okay. This is, if I have time for the game, I'll do the game. I want to hit a game. Okay. The game is really cute. Yeah. She's kidding. She's kidding. She actually hates a game. This one is called, say it and stand on it. I always end my show with a little bit of game. Okay. So I'm going to give you a topic and a scenario and you give me your take. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Cut people off quick or give them second chances. Depends. Depends. I love it. We love nuance. Stay friends with X's or cut it clean. Oh, always stay friends if you can. Yes. Don't nobody want to be my friend or whoop. Well, that's their problem. See, that's not your problem. That is their problem. That has nothing to do with you. They can't handle it. Go with God. Okay. But that is not your issue. So toss that. That doesn't mean it. That doesn't, if they're not smart enough to know how to be adult enough to say it didn't work. That's okay. But I liked you. And that's why I was with you because we were friends first. Okay. Mind your business or say something when it's wrong. Depends. I feel the saying, yeah, it's like, hey, what's it involved? Yeah. Love should feel easy or love takes work. I think it, I think both things can be true at the same time. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, when my job, it takes work, but it feels easy because I love it. Yeah. So I don't have, I don't mind it. Okay. Cancel culture holds people accountable or goes too far. Again, it depends. Yeah. Last one. Yeah. Chemistry matters more or compatibility matters more. I think compatibility matters more than chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. I'm learning that one. All right. This has been absolutely a time. Thank you so much. I love you. By the way, sister act three. Damn, we got to get this going. We're just waiting. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to do still with fighting. Yeah. Seven years. Seven years, baby. We've been fighting. Oh my gosh. You're so awesome. Whoopie is literally everything to me. Okay. She didn't just entertain us. She expanded how we see ourselves, what we believe is possible and what it looks like to live on your own terms. I thank her so much for her honesty, clarity and freedom. I mean, it means more than you know. And to everyone watching, let's hold on to that. The freedom to define ourselves is a very powerful thing. Until next time on Baby. This is Kiki Pong.