Whoa...Trump WH Exposed in Chilling Bombshell

the officers tell me like, "Oh, your student visa has been revoked." And they were shocked. I was like, "I don't have a student visa. I'm a permanent resident, a lawful permanent resident." And he got confused. He called somebody like, "Oh, he had agreed." Even they were incompetent. I think that's the most dangerous thing about this administration. Joining me today is Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil. He is the author of a new book, No Land to Stand On Notes from Detention, where he writes about the 104 days in ice detention. Mahmoud, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much, Jennifer, having me. All right. Let's start kind of at the beginning. I think a lot of my listeners are curious people, and we want to learn about different experiences, not just that Americans have, but people all over the world. So you're Palestinian, but you grew up in a refugee camp in Syria. What prompted for you and your family to be refugees? Absolutely. I mean, my grandparents were part of over 750,000 Palestinians who were expelled from their villages and towns around 1948, around the Nakhba, what we call it, the catastrophe, but also the establishment of the state of Israel. And as a result, a lot of villages were burned down, were emptied of their inhabitants, and my grandparents were part of this refugee group that went to Syria. So they walked to a nearby town in Syria. They walked like less than 40 miles away because they thought they would go back to their village, and they never went back. So they lived in tents for a number of years, then they lived in mud houses when it was clear that they needed something a little bit more permanent. And that's where my parents got married in a mud house, and then they built their own house only to be later. Basically, they had to leave after the Syrian war to Europe, and they had to leave to Lebanon. But this is, I think, a story of now over 5 million Palestinians who are denied that I'd return to their hometowns in Palestine. So that takes it back to the very beginning, which I think a lot of people don't understand. So Palestinians were living in this land, and then people decided this is now going to be Israel, and they were violently pushed out of their homes or killed or moved. And that expulsion is called the Nakhba, in AKBA, and Palestinian people refer to it as the great catastrophe. Exactly. And to us, it's not one event then, but it not only happened in 1948. It continued to happen since then, but also before then. Now, some, I mean, the Israeli propaganda would say that you just left because of the war, the Arab armies promised you that you will come back after they defeat Israel, but that's, to me, like it's its propaganda, but also Israeli historians also debunked these claims, because a lot of people were pushed out before even Arab armies started to advance toward Palestine. And even if so, they still have the right to go back like now any person around the world who can convert to Judaism can go back to, you know, can claim that I have to return to Israel and go live in Israel, while me, my family, and the five million Palestinian refugees like me, we don't have that right, we don't have even the right to visit Palestine. Like my parents are now like 70 years old. They've never been to Palestine. Where are they now? So now they are in Europe after having to leave Syria. So you lived in Syria and you grew up in a refugee camp? And what is the childhood like growing up in a refugee camp? So all in all, I think that if you G camp was like, I would say, like working class mostly, but below like middle class, yeah, for the most part, all these people came to the camp with nothing. And first, you know, they set up their tents and then they had like to build the infrastructure of the camp. So my childhood was really, you know, like we only had paved streets like in 2007 or 2008, like when I was 12 years old, the same with the internet. We only got it like very late, the same with electricity, of course, for my grandparents, they got it like in the 70s or the 80s. And that's I think the situation in the camp, like it's mostly managed by Anaroa, which is the United Nations Refugee and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees. They offer some, the schooling, the medical centers, like just the basic, the basic necessities and needs in the community. But because most of these refugees came literally with nothing, like my grandparents, like used to own lands and Palestine and used to farm it, they came to Syria with literally nothing. So they had to work in with with their Syrian neighbors, basically like working as a daily workers. My father was a welder, he worked and also around the camp. But that made us or made my family really value education, seeing education as our capital. We didn't have anything, no money, nothing, but they felt that, you know, education would liberate us in one way or another. But when you're little, you know, we have, we'll say, what do you want to be when you grow up? So when you were little, living in the Syrian refugee camp, what did you want to be when you grew up? I mean, when I was a when I was kid, I want to be a pilot, like just like, you know, or any other other kids. And they went to actually do aviation school. You did. In Syria, but I couldn't continue because of the war. Yeah. And they had to flee to Lebanon. So I never I never actually studied, you know, beyond that first first year, or it was like the very beginning of it. But and then I when I was in Lebanon, like, that's when I was like 18 years old, and they started, I want to to realize that what I want to do is like to actually work in public service. So in Lebanon, I worked in in with Syrian refugees, building schools for thousands of Syrian refugees. So let's just I'm sorry to stop you there. So the knockback happens in 1948. And this creates decade after decade of misplaced Palestinian refugees. A lot of you were then in Syria. And then Syria falls apart because of Assad. And now we have a Syrian refugee crisis. And some of these are in Lebanon, which is now currently being bombed by Israel. So would imagine now there's another refugee crisis of Lebanese. Is that is that correct? It's very correct. And you know, like for Palestinians, during the Nakhvah, they did not only go to Syria, like half a million ended up in Syria. I mean, now in total, but they a lot of them went to Jordan, Lebanon, some in Gaza and the West Bank. Like the Palestinians who are now we call them ghazans. They are not ghazans. They are Palestinians from from Jaffa, Akka, Akka and Bershi, but like they are not from Gaza. It only happened that my family decided to go north. They could have, you know, gone south and ended up in in Gaza or the West Bank. So a lot of Palestinians were, I mean, the Palestinian society was really, I would say shattered because of Israel's existence as a whole. And whether they are in Lebanon, and we have all of us have different, different documents, also different rights. Like in Syria, you know, I keep saying I'm Palestinian Syrian because Syria does not give Syrian citizenship to Palestinian refugees. The same in Lebanon, Palestinians in Lebanon, they don't have the same rights as the Lebanese. They can't work in every profession. Same in Jordan, Jordan like did better in giving citizenship to more Palestinians, but still there's that crisis of like not all Palestinians they have that citizenship in these countries, which means that, you know, we lived all our lives, you know, secondly class citizens at best. Yeah. Whether in Syria or in Lebanon, I never had like a passport in when I was in Syria or when I moved to Lebanon it was temporary to travel document. Right. Just like a document that you need to present to embassies to get visas everywhere. So you applied to school to Columbia to go to graduate school and you get in. Are you so excited? Oh absolutely. I mean, that was, you know, Columbia was my dream school in a way that what are you studying there? I studied international and public affairs. Okay. Because I was wanted to be, you know, to work in Palestinian diplomacy, to work in Palestinian public service. - And when you arrived here, was it your first time in the United States? - No, I came here in 2018. I got another scholarship to come to Columbia to study an executive course at Columbia Business School. - Okay, so you get here. You're working on your graduate program and you're going to Columbia, which is incredible. New York is incredible. That's where we are right now. And October 7th happens. And you, I think it was five days later, start protesting. So some people say that I hear these complaints online from, you're like pro-Israel people that, you know, this was only a few days after October 7th. So assume that my listeners, that they don't know what we just have spelled out. When that, when October 7th happened, and then by October 12th, I believe you started organizing and protesting, what was it that you knew? What information did you have? Because the protesting now is completely justified. I mean, there are some nets who will go, now it's not a genocide, but these people are denialists, et cetera. Every person with a set of eyeballs can see what happened and that these protests were very worthy cause. So what did you know on the 12th? On the 12th, there were at least 2,000 Palestinians killed by Israel in Gaza. Minimum, I don't have the exact number, but the minimum was 2,000 Palestinians killed by Israel. And what we knew, it was clear from the first day the intention of the Israeli government to commit a genocide. You had all these statements, whether from the Prime Minister Netanyahu or from the Israeli president and every political and military official in Israel saying that we will kill everyone in Gaza. Like it's not that we made that up. And it was clear what they were doing. They shut down. And you know those, that messaging exists in Israel, but it doesn't, by the, it doesn't, Americans don't hear that. You really have to dig to hear. Absolutely, that's part of what the Israeli government like Smotrich and Gavir, that's not just on the news here. You really have to dig around to find these statements. That's part of the media manufacturing consent for genocide and, you know, like not showing us what these politicians actually are calling for. Like now today it's, there's the Israeli elections in Israel and all the parties, the Israeli parties, are competing on who would repress Palestinians more. Like that's what they're competing on. Like they're not competing on creating peace. None of these leading parties are calling for any peace. Like they ask them, there was a clip asking all their leaders about like do you support that to stay solution or like creating a Palestinian state or peace with Palestinians? And every one of them like said, no, one of them said, like hell, no. We would never, we would never have that. And that's I think a big part of how this media dealt with Palestinians since ever, you know, like I would say, since even before the Nakaba, you know, how they, because if you think about it, like Palestinians did not speak English, you know, most of Zionists were American citizens or you know, like at least Westerners, they know how to speak to the media. And that contributed a lot later with this country's commitment to Israel's security. So on October 12th, you know, that was five days after and people should ask why, you know, Israel started bombing Gaza on October 7th. By October 8th, there was like at least a few hundred Palestinians killed by Israel. And we did not protest because we made a conscious decision that we want the Israeli and pro-Israel students to grieve, to have their time. And until now, like that, there was a decision that we would never counter protest a vigil or an Israeli protest. We would, we wouldn't do that. Like let them grieve, you know, it's, you know, what happened, we realized, you know, that was a huge, we don't, we would not want to interfere with that. But when we had our protest, immediately, the pro-Israel campaign started like against the students with counter protests, but also with doxing. You had these doxing trucks going around campuses because the students issued statements, you know, about what happened in October 7th. A lot of it was that this did not start in October 7th. You know, on October 6th, there was at least 250 Palestinians killed by Israel. By October 6th, there was like at least 200 and 50 Palestinians killed by Israel in the West Bank. Hamas was not in the West Bank. A lot of them were children. And at that time, I was, I was interning at the UN and mainly following the situation in Palestine. And you could see that this is, this could never be sustainable. Like Israel was invading Palestinian refugee camps in the West Bank. It was like Jeanine and Torshamis, you know, like really drawing people out of the West Bank because to Israel, what was most important for them is to prevent any Palestinian state. And that was the essence of it is in the West Bank. That's why they ignored Gaza. That's why, you know, they failed miserably in their intelligence to expect, you know, that tax, despite the signals. - Yeah, I've looked into this and a lot because I was very interested right after October 7th, there were reports, I think it was Egypt. You can correct me from wrong. That was like, hey, like they're gonna attack and everybody just ignored that. And then I read further that Netanyahu was funding Hamas. So he's like Incahutes with Hamas, Netanyahu, like sending money through Qatar to Hamas. And then, you know, it's basically kind of like with the 9/11 in the United States. Like there was enough intelligence to prevent it, especially considering how much money the United States of America spends on counterintelligence and military. Israel spends equally as much. And it's bizarre that, you know, we hear about the iron dome and all of this and these Hamas people make it on like dirt bikes. - Yeah. I mean, you know, I would push back a little bit about like them being on Kuhut. Like Israel facilitated the funding for Hamas because for them that contributed into the division of the Palestinian society. So they wanted, you know, like it's easier to vilify Hamas in front of Western media while they cannot do that with the Palestinian authority who's committed to peace process. And it's actually not only Egypt. It's like the Emirates, the UAE also like. - So wait, help me, help me understand this a little bit more. So Israel wanted a boogeyman. So they helped create Hamas. - So no, I would say they facilitated it. I wouldn't say, you know, Hamas is only less than 40 years old. - Right. - It was created in 1988 before that Israel was still brutalizing Palestinians. And Hamas came into power because the other political factions, Israel like attacked all political factions. You know, it was at one time, it was the PFLP, which is a very, you know, like Marxist communists, I would say like a group Israel attacked it. Then they attacked the PLO, the Palestinian liberation movement and fatta deleting Palestinian factions who were committed to the peace process. But Palestinians felt so enraged that none of the attempts to find a solution is working with Israel. You know, like Oslo Accord happened in 1993. You know, now we have two states. Let's go ahead, then Israel built more settlements and more settlements. The Israelis also assassinated Rabi and the Israeli prime minister who wanted to have some sort of peace with the Palestinians. And that made Hamas to come into power because not necessarily because people were ideologically aligned with Hamas because they wanted a way for liberation and nothing was working. But what Israel did at the time where the Palestinian Authority was getting momentum on the international fora. Like Palestine was enrolled at the UN in 2011, then at the ICJ, the International Criminal Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court. And Israel wanted to undermine that and how would they undermine that is by playing on the rivalry between Hamas and Fatih. So they allowed Qatar to fund Hamas. Like literally, Israel would get the money inside Gaza. You know, it's not like-- - Yeah, right about it. - Yeah, it's, and it's, I mean, Netanyahu said that too. Like he was, he was talking about how these actions are actually helping in dividing the Palestinian community because to Israel, the main threat is to have a unified Palestinian society, a unified Palestinian political system. Because then, you know, we can go to the international community. We can actually like work toward liberating ourselves, but they wanted that divide to continue. And at a time where, you know, Palestine was getting like really great momentum like across the world, they thought that no, let's, you know, let's focus on, on strengthening Hamas, that way they would never, you would never have a unified Palestinian state. - So let's fast forward. So you're protesting. And for me, when I saw all of this happening, I remember being shocked, not by the protesters, because college students protest war is a very American experience. It's just, you grew up seeing imagery of it, like my dad fought Vietnam, but I grew up seeing the imagery of all of the protests, both the rock wars were protested. This seems to be in a very American thing, specifically on university campuses. To me, it was like, of course they're protesting. That's like being surprised. College students smoke marijuana. Like, no shit, of course they do. So I was really shocked at the fact that people were shocked about it. That's what shocked me the most. And I was like, God, they're really mad at them. Like, that seems ridiculous. Like, they get to protest that if they want to. This is America. Well, everybody just was demonizing these protests, which I found to be really an American, the demonization of free speech, and the demonization of protest is what struck me. And I didn't really know much about the whole Israel-Palestine, because I'm growing up in living in Oklahoma where we're dealing with Christian nationalists, like abortion, just all the crazy shit that Christian nationalists want to do. That's what I was on the front line trying to fight there. And so you are organizing these protests and you're involved in the protests, and you graduate from Colombia, and then Trump wins, unfortunately. And take me to the day that you were kidnapped by the United States government. - I mean, I would just say a little bit about the protests about this demonization of the protest, because it was easier for the establishment, for the Zionist establishment in this country, and the Zionist groups in this country, to silence and demonize the protests, then actually engage with them. Like, the pro-Palestine student, the pro-Israel students at Colombia, they failed to build a movement, because who would support a genocide? Who would support the killing of people? So it was easier for them to come and harass provoked students, so they can get that five-second video and post it on social media, see like it is violent at Colombia while in reality. It was overwhelmingly peaceful, like students are just protesting on the lawns, like they're taking a space and just like leave them. And Colombia itself contributed to that. Like I say that led to my arrest, Colombia laid the groundwork for the Trump administration to target me. A day before my arrest, I emailed Colombia president and Colombia administrators begging for help. Because they can't see the vicious attacks against me online. When you were protesting and helping to organize a protest, did you do anything egregious and set anything like death to America or America needs to die? No, absolutely not, and like our fight, our fight was to get Colombia to divest from companies complicit in human rights violations and to boycott its relations with Israeli-economic institutions. And now 18 months after my arrest, the Trump administration has not only charged me with a crime but also presented any evidence that I did anything outrageous or egregious, whether by my speech or not. So just so we're clear, because I think this is really important. Has Colombia accused you of doing anything wrong or not on the epinep or criminal? No, nothing criminal, absolutely. I mean, Colombia tried, you know, after the protest, Colombia started like a Gestapo like office called the Office of Institutional Equity that was targeting anyone protesting for Palestine on campus. So let me just ask why are they upset about people protesting for Palestinians? Because to me, this is very American. No, I mean, let me tell you this, the Palestine movement that Colombia did not only start after October 7th. You know, the first referendum asking Colombia to divest from Israel was passed in 2002 by Colombia's student body. Colombia did not want to deal with that question. Even one of the Colombia president, Bollinger, he said that divestment from Israel is not a topic we would ever discuss at Colombia. So it was clear that Colombia had this pro-Israel stance and the board of trustees, there are ideologues on the board of trustees whose protection of Israel for them is much more important than protecting freedom of speech, protecting student safety and even academic freedom. And that was what was shocking to me because at first, I was like, maybe what the university want to see is like, you know, popular support within campus. And that's it, but to them, they wanted to contribute to that narrative that these students are violent. They wanted to contribute to the narrative that, you know, like, there is anti-Semitism on campus. While in reality, there was none of that, like none as in like, you know, zero. There might be like, you know, it's a big movement, but like, there was nothing of that, but they wanted to do to portray the movement as violent, so to silence it. And that's again, you know, when you have the board of trustees of these universities, they are part of the establishment. Colombia, a lot of these people are part of, you know, are part of weapon manufacturers, are part of these big hedge funds. So what always strikes me about Israel and as an American? And I feel like I can be critical of Russia. No problem. Vladimir Putin sucks, can't stand him. I can say whatever I want to. But when it comes to Israel, it's like you're, you have to tiptoes, like you're, you know, you're walking through it and it requires the people who want you to support Israel, demand that you suspend critical thinking. And I'm, I'm not a religious person. I was raised in the Bible belt, but I'm an atheist. And so it's very difficult for me to suspend critical thinking and it's very difficult for me to engage in magical thinking. And so I understand historically that Jewish people have been persecuted, World War II is a horrific stain on humanity and that will forever and always be. And I oppose all forms of bigotry, all of them, every single one of them, but I feel like when you stand up for Palestine or you're critical of Israel, like it's just like, they try to make you out to be an asshole. And I'm just like, what the, like I'm not an asshole here. Like this government in this country objectively is doing really bad shit. And we, we lovers of democracy should call that out. Whatever you have going on or your feelings get hurt for us calling that out, I think that's a them problem. You know, it's just, it's really a bizarre thing and I entered this late in life, but it's very bizarre to me how, how difficult it is. Because like right now, I want everybody criticizing my government, I want everybody talking about how bad the United States is right now because we are behaving like a very bad actor. We are violating human rights. We are suspending habeas corpus. We are killing citizens. We have a nut job president. And I think you should say it loud and say it proud. But you wouldn't, you wouldn't get the same pushback like as you would criticize Israel. Like in this country now, it's fine to criticize this country's government, but not Israel. And that's, to me, it's the Palestine exception in this country, the Palestine exception, the fact that the freedom of speech, rule of law, basic dignities are not extended to Palestine. You know, it's freedom of speech except for Palestine, rule of law except for Palestine. So everything, we have a history of this. Is that new for the United States? Because we treated the black population like this for a very long time. And, and I think that that's a fundamental problem that allows this to incubate. So that's when, when it is so difficult to, you know, because they can, they can never justify that. Like how, how would you justify that God promised me a land like 3000, you know, like, how would you, how would you justify that? I can't even just, I can't even discuss that for rational thought. So that's why it's easier for them to silence and to smear and to demonize than actually engage with whatever you have. That's now what we're seeing right now is the Israeli lobby in this country are trying to pass laws that would, you know, that would suppress freedom of speech that it would, you know, and it's happening in some states that you cannot boycott Israel. You can't boycott the United States in this country, but you cannot boycott. That's nice. That's what I'm saying, like that. So that's, that's, that's the essence of it. That's crazy. Okay, so, all right. So all of that aside, no matter what people think, we surely, we can all agree on speech. And I think that it's very, very important in free speech. So you get up one day and walk my listener through what happens when you are arrested or detained or kidnapped, whatever phrase is, I think it can be a combination of all the above. - So on March 8, I was going back home with Nour, my wife, who was eight months pregnant at that time. - Oh my God. - And when we entered the lobby of our building, I see that there was someone following us and he entered the building and then he asked me, And in the back of my head, I knew because I saw all these attacks online, but I was so chill because I didn't do anything wrong. You know, like even I was at that time during the day, I was discussing that with Nour, that maybe the FBI would come and question me, but that's about it. Like I never did anything wrong. You know, I only protested. As you said, like it's the very American thing to do in this country. And I never had my, like I never wore a mask to hide my identity. That's, you know, a conscious decision I made, because I had to believe that I wasn't doing anything wrong. Like why would anyone target me? So the officers tell me like, "Oh, your student visa has been revoked." And it was shocked. He called somebody, like, "Oh, he had, like, agreed." Even they were incompetent. Very incompetent. That's, I think that's the most dangerous thing about this administration. They incompetent. But I think it might, the incompetence might save us, though. I mean, I don't know, like, when he's okay. So go on. So, so, he makes a call. He makes a call and whatever he tells the, that same officer he tells the other officers bring him anyway. So I ask, you know, the first thing, I have a green card. I have a green card and I ask for a warrant. They wouldn't show me. Your wife's American. My wife's American was expecting a baby. And, you know, the first thing in, in "No You're Right" tells you when the police comes, don't talk to them and ask them for a warrant and to call a lawyer. Yeah. I ask them for the warrant. They said, "Oh, we will show you, we will show you the warrant later." I was like, "No, I need to see the warrant right now." And they tried to call my, my, my lawyer. You know, for a minute, I tried to call her, but then when she was insisting on seeing the warrant, they, they hung up on her. And then, you know, they, they, they, they took me and, you know, like, provided that they were playing clothes. What agency is this? Is this ICE? Or FBI? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's I, a human, Homeland Security Investigations. Oh, so this is under Christy now? Exactly. Oh, god. So, and, and this, this task force was supposed like to deal with human trafficking in this country with like, you know, real threats in this country, not go after students for their protestors. For college protestors. So, I was, I was, I was so chill because I knew that there's something, you know, something wrong. Like, it's an administrative error. Maybe they got it wrong. And, you know, because I expected this basic, just like the, really the basics when it comes to the role of law, that, you know, a judge would look into my case or, you know, an officer would see that all these Twitter posts were wrong, you know, like, there was like a bunch of Colombia students and, and faculty pro-Israel attacking me and smearing me about like, you know, being pro-Hamas and, and all of that. And I thought, you know, like, you know, there's some. But for the record, you're not even pro-Hamas. No, no, I'm not, like, that's the thing, you know, like, and, and I mean, that's, you know, like, that's, I want even if I, like, even if I am, it's freedom of speed, like, that's the thing. But I'm not, like, that's a big part of it. Like, I'm a Palestinian who believes in who condemns the exploitation of other Palestinians. Absolutely. And I say, like, loud and clear in my book, and my family has been like, you know, for, you know, since ever opposed to Palestinian factions, because of the fact, like, because they couldn't, they couldn't build a movement for all Palestinians. So that's why I'm, you know, I don't agree with, you know, political Islam. Like, that's not something I, I, I agree with, you know, I want a free Palestine where every person between the river and the sea, regardless of their faith, regardless of their background, live with dignity. A one-state solution. Yeah. I mean, it's, to me, it's just like the most important thing is, like, no one should be discriminated against because of who they are. Okay. So they, they have you. And then where do they take you? So they have, they take me to Federal Plaza here in New York, to ICE. I didn't know anything that, I didn't know even they are ICE. Like, that's the thing. They only told me that we are HSI, but also they are in plain clothes. So I didn't know if they've legit or not, like, some being kidnapped or any of that. And then while I was being booked, I hear someone asking an officer, the White House is, is asking for an update. And it was like, shit, like, something is, you know, like, is, is serious happening. If the White House is invested in, in me, like, that means, I did something wrong. Like, at the time where I, you know, all the, like, everything I, you know, tells me that I am innocent. I never committed anything wrong. But when I heard that thing, I was like, maybe I did something wrong. And I didn't know about it. And like, did someone frame me? Did like, someone say anything? And then they, they bring me, no, until now, I still had to believe that justice and justice would prevail, you know, that they, you know, there's no, there's no way, you know, I'm good, I'm good on law. I'm good on bureaucracy. Like, it worked with the British Embassy for five years. I like, I know my rights. I know like, and you're being reasonable. And being able to do all of that. And then they bring me the documents, the Foreign Secretary determination that says, your presence in the United States poses, like, an adverse threat to the US Foreign Policy Award. I want to play a clip about this. Here's Marco Rubio. Little Marco is the president causing talking about you. Play this clip, Kylie. We don't want, we don't need these people in our country that we never should have allowed them in the first place. If he had told us, I'm going over there and I'm going over there to become the spokesperson and one of the leaders of a movement that's going to turn one of your allegedly elite colleges upside down. People can't even go to school, libraries, buildings being vandalized. We never would have let them in. So that, that was their explanation that you turned Columbia upside down. Let me ask you this, did you not been here? Would Columbia still have had protests? Absolutely. I mean, that's, that's the big thing. I mean, it happened in other campuses too, right? I mean, like, they give me so much credit for things I never done. Like, I mean, you know, like, I would be so flattered if they told me, I led the movement that Columbia. I did not lead the movement that Columbia. The movement that Columbia was led by so many students who refuse to stay silent at a time where they can see on their phones that are being obliterated, that people are being killed and they're being gaslit by their own university that, you know, what you're doing is dangerous. So to me, like, to give me that credit, I mean, like, that's, that's a huge, but even though like in his determination, Rubio says in that determination that Khalil's actions, associations and activities, otherwise lawful are a threat to the US foreign policy and, you know, like national security. Well, I mean, it's an asshole, but so they say it's lawful. So like, I mean, what do you expect me to, like, it's, you know, like in Syria, I used to wear masks when I would protest against the Assad's regime because I knew it's a brutal regime that if they knew I was protesting, they would come and kill me. They would come and disappear me. That's why, like, I always wore a mask. I would change my clothes when I go to protest because I knew that this is going to be the consequence of protesting in Syria. But here, I didn't feel the need. So they, they have you, and then you spend like 104 days in an ice detention center. Take us through that. When I entered, to be honest, I was so relieved when I entered the detention center, when I saw people around me because at that time, it was 1 a.m. about like 48 hours after my arrest. So I was like, very, you know, what were the other people in the detention center? Who were they? Immigrants? So at night, I didn't know, like, it was night. I just like, you know, tried to sleep. I couldn't sleep. I won't just like to call my wife. And the morning, it was clear. I could see ice everywhere around me, like the, their logo and the posters of ice around me. And then I was able to talk to people inside. So the vast majority of, you know, I was in, I entered the room of over 70 people, like one room, all bunk beds. The light was still on. It was like 2 a.m. in the morning at that time when I entered that room. Everyone is trying to sleep, but like, you know, they gave me a send, a send blanket, like no pillow. I couldn't sleep. But, so the, the, you know, at the end, I spoke with others around me and I, you know, I discovered that this is an ice detention center. This is where they bring immigrants to deport them or like to wait until their, their immigration process finished. But speaking to people around me, you know, like when I entered that detention center, I, I felt, you know, very devastated that I had the most hearted breaking story ever, you know, like, a legal permanent resident. I'm expecting a baby. I didn't do anything wrong. I did it that I weigh, you know, coming here on a visa and then on a green card, my wife is American. But it was immediately clear to me that, actually, you know, I was lucky. Like, I'm, I'm someone who should be grateful that I have all these because the people around me, they did not even have a lawyer. They did not even have a document saying why they're kids. They were, they were not kids, no. They were like 18, 19 years old. But I still remember like on my second day, I had someone coming to me. He spoke English like very fluently and he told me that he's going to talk like he doesn't know why he's there, I think he's a DACA recipient. I didn't know what DACA, like actually, you know, but like he told me he's a DACA recipient and he was taken, I think he was going to school, something like that, he was taking off the street, but he felt like confident, he's like, yeah, I'm gonna talk to my lawyer tomorrow and we're gonna sort it out and then later in the night, ice came, announced his name and deported him immediately without getting the chance. To see a lawyer, but over these 104 days, I met all sort of people, mostly, you know, fathers and men who came to this country only looking for a better future for themselves and for their families, like my bunkmate lived in the United States since 2002, his two daughters are US citizens and one of them works for a federal law agency, like law enforcement agency and he was telling me, you know, all these as if these are like his, his credentials to be American or to get out of detention, telling me about like how much he pays in taxes that he has, you know, three horses. Because normally in a serious government, those things matter. Absolutely. But in this government, he would tell me like, you know, my nephew is in the Air Force and so he felt like he's gonna, you know, like it's a piece of cake, you know, he's gonna be out something wrong is happening, then two weeks and his bond hearing comes and it was denied and he was devastated and they denied his, they denied his bond because of lack of connections to the community. So someone with two US dollars, two US dollars, his wife was a permanent resident, he's a foreman at his company, you know, he was telling me like, you know, I'm a supervisor of 30 employees, like he was so proud of like what he was able to achieve in this country. And then once he lost that bond, he was like, you know, 180 different. It's just like he felt so betrayed and he had to sign his deportation order because, you know, the conditions in these detention centers are so bad by design because they want people to give up fighting their case in the court because it might be cheaper to, you know, to have a warm temperature to get like a better food because the food can get better. They just like, you know, it's designed to be bad just like to get you out of the tent like to get you to sign your deportation as soon as possible. But speaking of children, I still remember these two men, one of them was literally crying all the time, like as in like day and night. He was picked up from his court hearing. He had an immigration court hearing and he was snatch off that hearing and came. He's a father of four kids, all of them under 10 and his wife was battling cancer. They are alone outside. So he would just like cry, he's saying like, who's going to take care of the kids? Like my wife has a chemotherapy next week or I think that it was like same day. I can't remember like I remember like it was like very, you know, they he had to be with his wife and the chemotherapy and to take care of the kids. And another person who came and asked me to write a letter to I's to bring his son an 11-year-old into detention because he's a single father. He doesn't have anyone outside and I remember we spent like two days just trying to locate his son, his neighbor ended up taking him in. But he wanted his son to come into detention. So like just imagine having to ask eyes to detain your son just to take care of them. This is what this government is doing. You know, like cruelty is the point of a lot of these practices were happening under Biden by the way. Like it's not just that Trump is doing this, but he's doing he's doing it in a way that's so vicious. That's so horrendous. To just to be cruel, you know, like that's the point. And you know, it was so normal to see men cry in detention because they're being called criminals, rapists, all these smears online. While in reality, you know, like they just have paperwork. Yeah, they exactly. I say it all the time on the podcast. These are not criminals. These people have immigration issues or paperwork issues. These are paperwork issues. They're not. No, no, that's the thing. Like why would someone be getting jail for a year or two for overstaying Gevisa? Yeah. That's the thing. That's the thing. They make why we're about to run out of time. So I want to make sure we get to. So ultimately you're released from eyes. And who fought for your release and what was the order that that got you released? Yeah. So after my detention, thankfully a group of lawyers and legal institutions volunteered to represent me. So ACLU, clear CCR, and many others because they knew that, you know, to go after a green card holder for, you know, first amendment is a big thing. It's going to have huge consequences to anyone in this country whether they are citizens or not citizens. So it got like more than 20 lawyers to get me released. So they appealed to to a court in New York than to a court in New Jersey because of these like a few hours that I spent in New Jersey. And that judge after a period of time decided to release me and ordered their OB determination is likely and constitutional. So he ordered my release. I get released, but still the government appealed that decision. It got turned in the third circuit because it's like the public and majority. So it's becoming like very ideological case where courts are, because now there are like several students like me who got arrested. And it was clear, like, you know, we, I was targeted because the Trump administration wanted to make an example out of me. So others wouldn't speak out for Palestine. You know, like that, because that's what they said, you know, like the White House said, my arrest is a blueprint for the administration to go after anyone who protests for Palestine. So now we're still fighting. I mean, now we're going to the Supreme Court on a very technical question, which is whether the whether the federal court can intervene in my case or not, because the Trump administrations are giving that this is a purely immigration case, and it belongs to the immigration system. Immigration system in this country is fully under the control of the Trump administration. Immigration judges are not real judges. You know, they are, they're literally fake just judges appointed by the attorney general and can be fired by by, by them. So, so this is where we are right now. And you know, the question that we're presenting to the Supreme Court is, you know, whether the government can weaponize its immigration system to punish someone for their speech. And if so, does the federal court? Here's my deal. My mood. I mean, this Supreme Court is really fascist. I mean, it's just it's really a horrible Supreme Court. A lot of these justices are comprised of minority rule. You know, George W. Bush appointed, I believe it was John Roberts. He didn't even win the popular vote. One of the times that he ran Donald Trump the first year didn't win popular vote. So in this democracy, the shining democracy on the hill, we have a lot of minority rule in this country. And I'm terrified for you to go in front of these justices because I believe in my opinion, they're all fascists, racist. I do. I just, are you terrified to go in front of the Supreme Court? I'm not. I think, again, like my, my fight is not only about whether I get to stay in this country. It's more about whether anyone in this country can speak out for Palestine and not not being punished for it. And I see justice not only from the courts. You know, I totally understand that the courts are a product of the political system in this country, you know, which is presidents appoint them according to their beliefs and agenda. But to me, I get accountability through people actually now, you know, like the public is more aware about what's happening in Palestine. People are voting in progressive candidates with it, you know, across the country now. They're voting out candidates who are, you know, with the Trump agenda, with the Israeli agenda. I also get accountability and I get justice, you know, by getting my word out, you know, because this is what I exactly, because it's a long game. Like, I mean, I would be, I would be, you know, I would be lying if I tell you like I have full confidence in the Supreme Court. But I think because we're asking them to do is just to reaffirm what other Supreme courts in the past have said that habeas corpus is afforded to non-citizens. It is a tool to challenge the legality of you and coincituality of of of of of of of of of of of attention. Is it surreal? Like when you're I mean, you're in it, you're in it, you're in it. But do you ever like step back and think me this this kid from Syrian refugee camp and then from Lebanon and and I my case is going to potentially be a historically is it surreal when you ever know? I mean, all the time I try to gravel with this question. Is this real? Am I in a dream? I laugh with my friends. I tell them, I'm in an action movie right now. I'm in a thriller. That's how I'm taking it, because it is surreal. I only came to this country believing in the principles of this country, this country champions liberty justice and freedom and rule of law, only to be surprised that it is the opposite when you are Palestinian. I came here. I was planning like a very stable life. The green card was the first permanent thing I ever had in my life, and it was like, finally I have five years to chill. I would get my American citizenship and then see what's next. But now here I am. Again, I did not choose this, like I did. At the time, were they trying to make an example out of me? I'm trying to do the opposite, which is to try to make an example out of them. Okay, so final question. Your story minus the 104 days in detention and pinning Supreme Court case is ubiquitous amongst Palestinians. So you can't go to Palestine and be safe, although you're Palestinian. And you can't go to Syria and be safe. And you can't go to Lebanon, be safe because Israel is now attacking Lebanon. And as a Palestinian, you came to America and you weren't safe either. Where can Palestinians go to be safe? And was that the impetus for the title of this book? No land to stand on because as I was talking to your assistant publisher, not publisher, maybe a publicist, but I was talking to your publicist. I was just thinking like, where Palestinian is supposed to go for just basic safety? And nobody really has an answer to that question. Do we? I don't think so. And Palestinians are fighting for their existence at this point. At the time, where Israel is trying to erase that existence. They say that there's 22 Arab countries. Why don't you go to these Arab countries? They're not my country. My country is Palestine. And my story is just another Palestinian story that proves that the violence and the brutality against Palestinians transcend borders. It's not only in Palestine that Palestinians are being killed and harassed. It's also outside of Palestine. And this is why we are trying to tell our stories just to the people because we are all complicit. Every American citizen is complicit in my misery and my people's misery by using our tax dollars to fund Israel, but also by using the US political power to shield Israel from real accountability. At the end of the day, we're just, you know, just another people who are looking for better future for ourselves and our children. We want to build, you know, like it's not, you know, we have to reckon with the fact or how we came here, like that this country view a Palestinian as a terrorist or, you know, like at least, you know, a Palestinian is guilty until proven innocent while it should be the opposite. So we're glad that this starts to change, that, you know, at the end of the, you know, I'm a father, I'm a son, I'm a husband, you know, just like anyone else. And you're just kind of a nerdy graduate student that looks at what's the last thing. And I mean, that is way as a compliment because I think you just tapped into the propaganda that that a lot of Americans think if they hear somebody's, you know, from an Arabic country or Palestinian, oh my god, they must must be a terrorist. And I think a lot of that is completely changing. And it's just important for me and for my audience that we humanize and talk about the homelessness that so many Palestinians are experiencing now. And so I wish you the very best of luck with the Supreme Court. I mean, truly, I do. I will be watching that because I really do not trust them at all. But let me let me tell you like one thing, like all the rights that we have right now did not came because the Supreme Court woke up in the morning and decided to do that. I think exactly what the Congress woke up in the morning to do that. I think it came as a result of people fighting for them, whether it is during the war of independence, you know, the civil war, the reconstruction era, the civil rights movement. And this is part of it. Yeah. We have to keep fighting for our rights. And I fear so many people are taking these rights for granted and thinking that, you know, we have these rights and we will keep, we will keep them. But with those fascists in power, with those authoritarians in power who refuse to just like grab with the idea that they are equal to other human beings, you know, they want to be superior. So we have to fight until we get all our rights. And this is just like part of that fight. I just, I believe what I was told when I was little that we are a nation of immigrants and we are a melting pot. And my vision of that extends to everybody, you know, matter of skin color, what your country is. And I just am so glad you're here. And congratulations on your baby. And I'm sure she's big now at two now one and a half one and a half. And I can't thank you enough. Please go support MothMood and read his book, Americans. We have a lot of catching up to do because we have been fed only one side to a story. And I just think it's super important that we that we stand up for universal human rights. So thank you so much. It's so much