Who’s the Top Pick? Plus, Giannis Trade and Most Interesting Offseasons.

coming up on the Zack Lo Show. It's Friday, yeah, this is going to get traded probably at some point. We don't know when and just screw it. Let's do a podcast anyway and make it all draft Jonathan Gavoni from draft expressed the best in the business. He knows everything that's going on. He's seen all these players from when they were little pups learning how to play basketball at a high level. He gives us all the latest on who is Washington taking at number one. Is it actually going to be there in Peterson. Does anybody actually know what are the ripple effects of that pick going down to two three four and then the morass from five to eighteen teams trying to trade up trade down trade in trade out. All these guards who are the clippers taking what are the nets going to do they just took a million guards are they going to trade down the kings they really want a cuff that badly that they're going to trade up the hawks and eight is there pick and plays the warriors pick and play the thunder at two picks the Grizzlies have two picks in the top eighteen. What are all those teams going to do we get into all of it I've actually watched some college basketball in the last few days I'm learning a little bit we talk about some of my hot takes from those. And just sort of everything that's going to happen in the draft and yes we talk yana's the latest on yana's do we still expect to trade before the draft and then some final stakes that I don't like and my most interesting off season teams that aren't at the top of the draft or in the honest war text just other teams I'm watching that's all coming up on the Zach Loshio. Welcome to the Zach Loshio it's Friday morning I wasn't actually going to do a show today because we're all on yana spots you could get traded any time but you know what screw it I'm not letting this hold up my business the draft is in what four days or something crazy like that there's a lot of intrigue there's a lot of movement let's just have fun if you honest yana's get traded tonight we'll do it. Another punch I think of only draft express just one of one in terms of draft intel and analysis how are you doing I'm doing great Zach how are you I'm good I'm good I'm on yana swatches as the whole league is we all have been it's been a while now Zach can we live years. It's so long for this to happen I'm like the old lady and Titanic at this point how bad will you be if it doesn't happen on draft night no I don't get mad I don't get mad because one of the things I've realized in my old age of doing this job is I can't control these things I can't I can't like I can't they're not going to happen conveniently to my podcast or personal schedule I can't control how long series go in the playoffs and how much I have to travel and who plays you you just have to just just let it happen just got to let it happen to you. And look I have a busy it's this is this is the most sub optimal possible sequence of that so normally the draft is on a Thursday right like Thursday Friday has been the decadence of the draft forever so I'm going to reveal this is a first is a scoop on the Zach Locio several months ago the New York Mets approached me about a number of things I do this Mets corner segment on the podcast that they have liked. I'm just a crazy fan they're like hey among the things is like would you want to throw out the first pitch on June 22nd and I was like hell yeah June 22nd Monday before the draft a little bit of a hot zone but it'll be fine it'll be great and then low and behold we can time that to stay overnight is a family in Queens fly out the next day to watch to Toronto to watch Croatia play in the World Cup probably two days before the draft we're getting in the hot zone but it is well whatever like its World Cup it's well and now that's the night before the draft. I'm going to be throwing out the first pitch in city field weather preventing the weather doesn't look great because I'm freaking cursed in the meds are cursed and then I'm flying to Toronto. He can get traded while I'm screaming in what is now a must win game after a disappointing first game for quite you know what come only there's just nothing I can do about it because he's either going to get traded or he's not but will I get angry. So I will say before we get into the draft draft I still expect him to I would still bet on him I want to use that language getting traded before the draft I think everyone kind of wants us to happen. My favorite bit of reporting in the last week has been sources say Milwaukee doesn't love Miami's offer really is that a is that a revelation because if they love Miami's offer I think he'd be on Miami and would have been on Miami like two months ago. Miami is in it right I think Boston is in it to some degree the degree I'm not entirely sure what it is but they're in it I wouldn't even rule out like a mystery team still kind of lurking on the fringes and obviously all of this is a lot of it anyways contingent on where he honest is going to be willing to indicate that he will sign an extension in October I still think it happens before the draft if only because. You know Milwaukee will want a first round pick in this draft a lot of teams you can probably speak to this are trying to get an extra bite at the apple in like the middle of the lottery because people just love this draft and they'll want to you know they'll want to have control of another pick but it wouldn't it wouldn't shock me if it goes past the draft but I would still bet on it happening before the draft what about you. Yeah I mean I'm thinking back to the trade deadline when we all thought you honest was going to be traded and then he wasn't and yeah I followed up with some of the teams that were involved and and they said listen they played this really they wanted to see everybody's best offer they made us all feel like this is happening any second now you better get your best offer in they waited till the very last second and they kind of dangled them in front of our faces and then they pulled the rug out and now they know what our best offer is and now they're going to do this. And now they're going to do this again you know and so we're they're going to you know they're going to take this on to the clock and I mean like is it is it going to is it going to happen here like you know with the 13th pick or whatever that like that's when he honest gets. Yes traded I'm not sure but they obviously like this is a big move for them and you want to get to do this one so they're going to take this week time with it yeah I think what's happening here is very simple the draft is still four days away. Miami's offer is what it is we can assume it's a combination of Tyler hero fillers salary attached to decent intriguing young players I would guess. Go out further know like they could like sweeten the pie well this is what I'm saying like we we know there's there's an offer like that with picks and number 13 and they can trade more future picks on top of that. I'm sure Milwaukee's like cool that's our floor like we're going to sniff around and at the very least or we're going to act like we're sniffing around or both and hope to get one more extra thing out of you and by the way a couple of other notes on this the rose your thing falling away as salary filler for Miami is a really is a really big deal because it it actually strength things their offer and weekends their ability to not strengthen their own offer in a lot of ways. And there are still I think mechanisms where I think hero has to be in the trade and I actually think Milwaukee I've heard Milwaukee could flip hero for a decent like more draft equity so that they can frame this is like we get you know five first round picks in the deal or something like that I'm not going to speculate on where but I think there are going to be deals available for hero if that's the way Milwaukee wants to go. And I do think Miami has constructions of the trade where Wiggins and they have a team option on him or is it a player option I can't remember some kind of option and and norm powell who's an unrestricted free agent they have his bird rights are both still on the heat I think that's like their ideal scenarios at least keep those two mid size to semi high salaries on the team as talent as players around BAM and yana and whatever is left over. They're still the safe bet I but I I'm prepared for anything and I'm also prepared I'm also prepared I I I want to jinx myself Gavoni i'm going from the mound at city field i'm not doing the thing that Josh heart and Jalen Brunson did where they now they have to worry about injuring themselves but they went from in front of the mound most I went to my local high school through the tarp off the mound and practiced from the mound because I'm going to try I'm going to try to do it why not is that. I'm never going to do this again i'm going to go out swinging hope you do a better job than our boy Victor did. Dude there's been some bad first pitches in the history of first pitches and here's what I don't need from a set pretty low for you. Here's what I don't need from my friends and family I don't need people sending me 50 cent and gale king and everyone who fucked up the first pitch I don't need it in my head all right just like stop doing that it's not helpful any any parting thoughts on the honest thing. I don't know I hope it happens you know i'm betting on I'm imagine it's going to end up being Miami you know like just because they they really want him and that's where he honest wants to be and he's got a big sadness you know and so if you're going to give up all that you better know that you're going to keep him and so that's feels like they're you know that's where we're all kind of expecting to end up and that's that's my guess where the where this goes. Okay let's start at the top of the draft where Washington controls the process now there's all this reporting Mark Stein reported that Washington is uncertain is debating between Peterson and debanza Jeremy Wu your old colleague of the SPN just changed his mock draft 15 minutes ago to put Peterson at number one over debanza I've like again I will say this it's not like Washington's front office is going to be like hey Zach just so you know we're taking player X so everyone is playing a guessing game to the game. I don't want to explain a guessing game to the point that I talked to a high powered agent last night who just flatly said oh they're taking to ban so ignore everything else and then all this other reporting comes out and I've heard some of it too that Peter sends back on the board who knows I don't think there's going to be a trade I right now. Now I think the top four teams are going to stay the top four teams. You have been consistent that you think Peterson is the best guy in the draft. Do you still think Peterson is the best guy in the draft and what's your best read if whatever you can share about Washington's intentions as we approach the weekend? I mean, I've been hearing Peterson at one from the very start, you know? So I was just, you know, I came on the show the night, the day after the lottery and I was like, why was the whole lottery show about AJ DeBonza? You know, like I struggled with that. You did? And I was like, it's not, he's not Cooper Flag. It's not Victor Wimba Nyama. It's not any kind of home run where they're just like taking AJ DeBonza and we're off to the races. You know, like it's a real conversation here. Do I know who they're taking? No. Have I done a lot of work on it? Also, no. You know, like I don't miss those days of, you know, having to call every agent, call every team. What have you heard and trying to track down? Trying to figure out who's lying and how aggressively they're lying. You know, like who picked him up and, you know, like Washington, they're very secretive and for a good reason. But I would think that they, you know, it's a real debate for them and you can't fuck this up. And this is exactly what I said, you know, like a month ago, you only get one chance at this and nobody's going to care that, you know, AJ DeBonza was the safe guy and if Darren Peterson is the best player, then this is going to be a stain on your record, you know, for the rest of your career. So you better make the right choice. And, you know, I think it's Peterson, you know, reasonable minds can disagree and you could tell me that AJ DeBonza is the most talented guy and he has a very strong argument. AJ DeBonza is going to be a very good NBA player. So I can't wait to see how it all plays out. It's so much more fun when we don't know who the number one pick is. Remember this, you know, crazy Jabari Smith, Pablo Bancaro, Chet Humbren. I mean, the Orlando Magic never brought Pablo Bancaro in for a workout, you know, me, that's I remember going to my, I got about that an hour before the drops in Mike, who are they taking? And he said, I don't know man, you know, like there was a last minute zoom then, you know, and to not bring a guy in for the number one pick that just shows you like they really, really struggling with this and they, they, and they had a tough choice to make, you know, turns out they probably should have taken Chet, but, you know, I mean, I get the playoffs might, you know, I was going to say to my most recent memories of Chet are him falling over trying to dribble baseline and dropping the ball a lot. But yeah, I think that, if you look at the overall, you know, body of work, you know, we're all prisoners of the moment here, but like Chet Humbren helped them win an NBA championship last year. You know, he, his role was a little bit different, you know, like his job was to draw a victor out of the paint. He didn't do that very successfully, but so, you know, I think I'm hearing Peterson, but, you know, I haven't done as much work as I usually do on this kind of stuff. So we'll see how it plays out. Here's, here's, first of all, I completely agree with you. I had Kyle Mann on a few days ago and I threw out the comp to the Bancaro Smith home, Grand Draft of like the last minute flip flops, the odds change, like Jabari Smith is number one for a long time. He ends up getting picked third, which turns out to be the appropriate order of selections in that regard. I don't think Washington is trading the pick. I don't think to the best of my knowledge that they know with certainty right now who they are taking. I think they're leaning one way and I don't know which way it is. And I don't think anybody really knows as that conversation with that agent I mentioned last night. So here's what I'll, here's what I'll have you do because the finals ended relatively early. I've actually treated myself to some college basketball like I watched some full games and like I can't, there's no way that I can cram, right? I can't cram from a year of not really watching college basketball because I watched two or three NBA games a night. But I'm like, let me get more of a taste of some of these guys and it has been so much fun because I know that I can't make up for lost time. And so like yesterday I watched an Arizona Kansas game at Arizona where it just reinforced that I really like Brandon Burries or Braden Burries. I don't need to, I'm saying their names wrong. That's how late I am into the game. And Peterson, I think was coming off some mistime in that game was super quiet in the first half. And I'm texting scouts like I'm watching this game like Peterson's doing nothing. Burries is amazing. Like, well, my God. And then in the second half, all of a sudden Peterson has 22 points. Fran Fischila is losing his mind on commentary about how good Peterson is. And then all my scouts like, look, if you really want to see Peterson, you got to watch this high school game, which I did a little bit of, you got to watch this game against Baylor and this game against whoever. And I'm like, man, it's got to be so you really have to see the full body of work, obviously, to make an informed decision. I can't do that. But I will say this Peterson is what six six six with shoes to bans is like six nine six eight six nine with shoes. Peterson had this wildly strange college season. I will say you probably heard this too that although there is some, there is a great deal of skepticism about the public creatine explanation for the cramping, all the medicals, all the testing, everybody has seen that every team is like satisfied that they've seen everything they need to see. And that Peterson's medicals are fine. And there is no issue here to be worried about whatever happened happened. Nobody's really worried about it. So aside from that, make the case for me that the smaller guy with the more strange college season, better high school season, probably, but more strange college season is actually the right guy for the wizards and ignore fit. Like let's just pretend it's a, the wizards are a blank slate, which they're not, but make the case. Yeah, I think that Darren Peterson is going to end up being the engine of an NBA team. I think he's a six six version of Damien Lullard. And so that player that we saw in high school that can change speeds with incredible force, get paint touches, finish with both hands, pass off a live dribble, make shots from anywhere on the court. That is an all NBA player. And that's the guy that you can win a championship with. AJ DeBonza is going to be a 25 point per game score in the NBA. He's an incredible talent in his own right. I'm just not sure that he's somebody that you can win a championship with, you know, with his style play, really ball dominant, you know, mid range, Bowie ball, tunnel vision, you know, inattentive at times, defensively. I'm worried about that. Now, Darren Peterson, there was a lot of chill there this season. And we didn't see that extra gear that was so tantalizing in high school, where he's just, you know, playing off that right handed, he's just blowing by people and finishing above the rim. We never, we saw that in really small doses this year, but it wasn't as consistently as we saw, AJ DeBonza, AJ DeBonza has this incredible will to score this like insatiable hunger to put the ball in the basket that I missed from Darren Peterson. Like, I was really disappointed in the way that that he went out, you know, that last game against St. John's, okay, at 21 points, so Darren Peterson, but down the stretch is like, man, go take the ball from Melbourne, cancel, council and go win this game. He was really like playing the three. It was all these bad shots from tray white and Melbourne council. And we're like, okay, some of that is on the coaching staff. They were kind of unrecognizable, you know, like in terms of like what you normally expect to see from Kansas, you know, Bill Sellepp was obviously, you know, he wasn't healthy this year. And so I wonder like if we saw the best version of Darren Peterson, like what I cannot let go of what I saw, you know, the whole weekend Brooklyn and McDonald's on every practice, every scrimmage, the game, you know, that whole season, a prolific prep, that incredible game against, you know, DeBanza, you know, where he, the guy averaged 30 points of game, seven of the citizens, you know, he would make incredible shots all year in high school and talking about. And you know, like that, that really is stuck with me. And that's why Peterson has been number one of my board all year. And from what we're hearing, you know, like that version of him has been a full display, you know, in the pre-shaft process, in workouts, in L.I., playing against NBA players every day. And people are saying like this guy is going to be a superstar in the NBA. And I'm sure if that's what people, what Washington saw in their private workout, that's going to be really, really hard to let go of. You mentioned the private workout. I want to reiterate this. The jazz were not surprised that they are apparently to this point, not going to get a private workout from Darren Peterson. And I don't think they really care. I don't think that's going to influence who they pick or not. Do you was, was what I said about the health checking out, okay, with teams, have you heard that, that same thing, or am I wrong on that? No, I've heard the same thing. And it was obvious also just like watching him to see your Kansas set, like he was not himself, like it was not the same player. There was like a tentative quality to him, whereas like instead of just, you know, blowing past people, we're going to be like, "I'm going to be a superstar." with that incredible change of speed, that incredible force, it was a lot of mid-range pullups and stuff. And like, from the very first game, I was like, this is not the exact same guy that I saw. He's obviously not comfortable, was it the hamstring? I don't know, you know, like, but, and so yes, I mean that, I mean that all checks out, it checks out from what we hear, it checks out the medical checks out in the film. And so like, I know what I saw. Like, there is another gear there for Darren Peterson that we didn't see consistently this year at Kansas. - You could make the argument that if they just love both DeBanza and Peterson equally, that tie would go to fit. And I think Peterson is a little bit of a smoother fit. It depends, depending a little bit on Tray Young, right? Like, this Tray Young thing is a little bit strange that he opted out of, that it's already being reported that he is, I think is a late June deadline, opting out of 49 million next year. It couldn't be as simple as this is pre-arranged and he's gonna opt out and resign for three years, whatever, with a starting salary that's a little lower, a little whatever, a little different that there's some reason why he opted out instead of opt in and extend. It could also be that his agents know he has a max somewhere and I don't know where that would be. I've heard conflicting, I've heard both accounts potentially being true. And so if he has a max somewhere, he has a max somewhere, they know he's gonna opt out and the Wizards are gonna have some work to do to bring him back. But given, I mean, I guess they both fit very well. The Wizards have a lot of wing and big guys. I don't know how important Anthony Davis is gonna be to their long term future, Davis, Sarr, et cetera, Keeshawn George, Koolabale, et all that. Maybe none of that really matters, but that's an interesting one to me. And I'm looking at the ringer, our big board, Kyle Mann just updated his and he has Camp Boozler at one. And I will say, you may have seen this on Instagram, they pulled this out. I fell in love with Camp Boozler watching a couple of full-dute games and some other clips of him. I just think he's awesome. I think he's gonna be a very good NBA player. And I think I should have been clear about this. Again, I know nothing, right? Compared to the Draftniks. I don't even loving what I saw from Camp Boozler and what a genius IQ processor playing from a step ahead, the passing, the versatility of the shooting, running pick and roll, screening and pick and roll, all that stuff, using angles, but like a little bit of Yokechi stuff in his game, not to compliment all it's a little bit of that. I still don't think based on, again, my limited viewing that how much I love him, I still don't think I would take him number one because these two guys have such crazy superstar upside in terms of engines on offense that I'm not sure Boozler is quite that. I could be wrong, but I am prepared for anything in this draft. I'm prepared for the 2% possibility that Washington has decided, fuck it, we're taking Camp Boozler number one, or the whatever percent possibility that Utah is like, oh, the bands have failed to us. Guess what, we're taking Peterson, or we're taking Boozler number two. I'm prepared for anything. And I think Memphis and Chicago are sitting there being like, hey, man, we're cool. Like whatever falls to us, we're thrilled with these top four guys, but it's interesting that Kyle moved Boozler up to number one, but that's where I stand. - But that's where I stand. - The board not his mock, right? So that's where he's, it's his big board not a mock, I think. But I would be surprised if it's not one of the of the bands of Peterson at one. I would be very surprised. - Yeah, I think me too, yeah, for sure. - You could make arguments for both of them, and this tray thing is a little weird. I would still bet on tray being back with the wizards, but who the hell knows? And then the draft really begins at five with all of these guards, and Clippers, Brooklyn, Sacramento, Atlanta at eight is super interesting. Dallas at nine is super interesting. Milwaukee, Golden State, Oklahoma City. And I've heard, I don't know if you've heard this, I've heard New Orleans is calling really aggressively to get into this range of the draft with a specific player in mind. I don't know who it is, but you know, there's just so much intrigue with the Clippers have Garland, how much is that going to impact their selection? Then that's just drafted a whole bunch of point guards. How much is that going to impact what they're going to do? You've probably heard these rumblings that like, is Brooklyn going to trade down into the range where there's like more wing guides available, pick up an asset, they don't want one of these guards. I don't know, Sacramento, all of this noise about like they love Acuffs, Scott Perry, Coach Acuffs, that, are they going to trade up with the Clippers to make sure they get Acuffs? I actually, I would bet against that based on what I've heard, but again, the Intel is all over the place. I don't think Sacramento is like, Acuff or Bust or Trading Up, we're going to do something reckless. My read on them is best that can get it, and it may be wrong, I want to be clear, is that they're going to be cool with whatever falls to them, but that could be wrong too. But like, what, just in that range, what's most interesting to you, whether it's trade up, trade down, trade out, a particular player that's floating around that range, kind of wildly varying degrees, like what's interesting to you? I think it's the Clippers, you know, I mean, it's such a tough decision for them. I mean, they made this huge gamble, trading zubots for the pick, they won on lottery night, you know, they have the pick now, it's an incredible win for them, but now you got to pick the right guy, you know, and like, and it's not like they're ready to take a guy, and then continue to rebuild her for three years. I mean, like, they've got a team that is built to win now. And so, but at the same time, so do you, a lot of these guards, you don't really fit with Garland. And so, you know, ACAS, you know, even McEl Brown defensively, it's not a great fit, but like, you don't draft for fit at this point in the draft. You want to, in five years from now, you want to be able to say, I got the best player at this, at the spot that I was drafting at. And so, that's what makes this such a tough decision. And so, I'm sure that, you know, they're fielding on these calls and, you know, but, I don't, I mean, you said earlier that you think that like, there's so much, so many teams want to trade into this range or so much, you know, I don't, I mean, I, I would, I would think that like, it's kind of a normal draft here, this five to 10 range, you know, like, and so. I think you've been below, I think you've been below that. And I think part of that is because, people think Golden State's pick at 11 might be in play and the, and the Thunder pick at 12 might be in play because they have two, two of the top 17. And then 15 to 18 is four straight teams, Chicago, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, who they have traded for that pick. They're not the original owners of that pick. So I just think there's a lot of like, there's a lot of thinking some of those picks could be available for various reasons. - There's a question, there always is. I mean, like, there's always a huge amount of movement, you know, like, especially in that 15 to 30 range, I mean, we'll probably see like half of those picks traded. There's always like, I mean, I think the stat is like, eight to 10 picks, move hands, like the week of the draft, you know, like, including the night of the draft. And so, yeah, there's gonna be a ton of movement. And, you know, the draft is like, it's the best conduit for making moves and for preparing yourself for free agency and attaching, you know, picks with contracts to get off stuff and clean your books and all that. So, yeah, it's, I mean, it's much bigger than the draft. I think it's probably less about like pure excitement about the players in this range, you know, especially like in that 15 to 25 range. And more about like, we've got to do something, you know, like, and this is a great opportunity that the whole league is open for business. And let's just go make some shit happen right now. Let's take a quick break and then we'll talk more about this, this sort of intriguing mirage in the middle of the first round. Brooklyn is one of my most interesting offseason teams because they obviously fell again in the lottery. They drafted a bunch of guards last year. They have this Michael Porter Jr. expiring contract that I think would be a pretty valuable trade chip. They also just have to decide in this new lottery world, do we like, they don't control their pick next year, which gives them like a bizarre incentive to actually, in some cases, be in the relegation zone, like be so bad that you're one of the three worst teams in the league because then you can't have your pick be number one and have it like their incentives are all over the place because there's also the incentive of like, the nicks just won the championship. And we're like our afterthought status has been underlined like and highlighted more than it will ever be. We have to get some juice in the arena. So I don't know what they're going to do with this pick and I don't even know like, what have you heard about just their general like, is this trade down stuff for a wing real? Like what do you think is going to happen there? And I think they need to show improvement this year. Like I think that they need to start winning games and make some strides, you know, like because next year's draft is shitty. And like you said, they don't control their pick. And so there's no like, pot of gold that's the end of the rainbow anymore, you know, like you've got to get going here. And it's unfortunate that like these last few drafts that they've slipped and they don't get the pick from the primo talent. And that really, and that makes me think that they're not going to trade down even further, you know, like you're at six, there's these, you know, four to five guys who are going to be there. You got to go and pick the best one, you know, like in regardless of position, I don't think that Ben Saraf, you know, like is, you know, or no one's for all right. Like these guys can't be factors in your decision making process. Like they're, I'll go a step further. Like I think Darius Garland is good enough to be a factor in your thinking if you're the Clippers, but I don't think it should be anything close to like a determining factor. Darius Garland was a nice, by low emergency play, what it was clear that Hardin wanted out and was not going to be part of the long-term future of the franchise. That was a nice pivot for them. He's a very good player. He's made an all-star team. He's had a ton of health issues. He really just barely played for the Clippers and played pretty well. But like he is not, if I'm the Clippers and I love A-Cuff or I love us one of these smaller guards, Michele Brown, who I didn't love on film, by the way. And not the bigger guards like Wagler's a little taller, Wagler bothers a little taller, Burys plays a little bulk wake. If I love who I love, like Darius Garland is not stopping me from taking that guy and I'm just going to figure out the rest later. He has two years left on his contract. I think he's on a five-year deal with them, but I'm sorry. Continue about Brooklyn. Yeah, no, so I mean, I'm with you. The same concept applies to the Clippers that applies to the Nets. You need to go and get the best guy here. And trading down, like, planting on this is not really a solution. So if you've got to figure out who's going to be the best player three years from the promise that like none of these guys are really going to help you win next year. Like Darius, like, a definitely not Kingston Fleming, Keaton Wagler, Nate Menter. I like Kingston Fleming. He's clever. He's pretty small, but he's clever. And he competes on defense. I don't know what he's going to be named. All good prospects. But history tells you that like point guards who are 19 years old don't help you win. You know, like, and so that kind of puts them in a tough spot because, you know, where you need to get better, but it's not, it's probably not going to happen for you from these, from this crop of guys from five to 10. But then you're hoping that they show enough excitement as the year moves on to buy you more time to continue to build and, you know, use your cap room and use New York City and use the Michael Porter, you know, trade ship and it's not, it's not an easy situation. They're in, I'll tell you that. Give me one guy who's rising and one guy who's falling as we approach draft day. Yeah, I think that it's probably less about like the workout, some measurements, the combine, all that. And more about like what we just saw in the playoffs, you know, and so I think with that in mind, I think the bigs, you know, like the playoffs help the bigs. I mean, it's been a couple years now where we're seeing like big men ready matter rebound matters, rim protection matters. You can play two bigs together. You need that physicality in the front court. And so like, I got like, like, more as Johnson, for example, you know, like he's, he, the fact that he, he's, he showed that he can play both spots. You can play the four, you can play the five. You know, he's shot it, you know, decently in workouts. He's 20 years old. Great interviews. You know, seven, three wingspan. That, you know, that level of physicality, you know, that's impressive. You know, like in Hanna Steinbach, the same thing, you know, like really good measurements. You know, he's over six, 11 and inches, seven, two wingspan. As shown the ability to space the floor, can pass it some great offense to rebound their strong physical tough, you know, like that translates to today's NBA. Is he going to be a star? No. Could he be a real useful piece for, you know, any team in that eight to 14 range? Yes. So, you know, if, if anybody kind of slides up, I think it's going to be one of those guys, do we see like in a dimara? You know, like does he climb up the board on draft nine and up at six, seven, you know, like that range. I mean, like, wow, I've heard that I've heard, like eight, nine, like, that range is not like outrageously unlikely. Like it's unlikely, but you're not the first person to throw numbers like that about a dimara. I mean, he's so intriguing, you know, nine, nine standing reach, you know, the passing ability, the rim protection, he's so skilled, the crafty, he's got great footwork, he's got great hands. You know, the question is, you know, is he going to be able to shoot eventually? I mean, he shot 59% from the free throw line in college, which probably not going to happen anytime soon, but we saw that, you know, earlier on in his career. And so if he can do all that stuff at seven four, you know, he's only 20, he's been in college for three years, but he's only 21 years old. There's still some upside there to tap into. I mean, that's those are the guys that I got my eye on on draft night, you know, like those bigs to see like, do any do any of them climb into the lottery? Where does Yaxel and the Borg end up, you know, like, there's kind of like this sense out there that like, you know, turning 24 in September, he's just too old, he is what he is, you know, the analytics, they don't like the older guys. There's been a ton of guys over the years, you have Epi Udows and Wesley Johnson's who, you know, like, got drafted really high at, you know, at 23 and ended up busting. And so, but Yaxel and the Borg, you know, he's 6'10", he can handle, he can pass, he can shoot, he's built for the modern game. He played small forward for a national championship team. You can slide him to the four, he's big enough to play the five, you know, like he was super efficient. He can do a lot of different things. So I'm just really interested to see where does Yaxel end up, you know, some people say like the interviews, the background, people kind of wonder, you know, like how serious is he and I've heard that for the maturity, I've heard the maturity concern. I'm going to be like for him. And so that's going to be a really interesting for one for me. Honestly, again, I know nothing compared to you and everyone else, I watched some land aboard tape and was like, he's not going to be a bus. Like, I don't know exactly what he's going to be, but he's not going to be a bus. I liked all three of the Michigan guys quite a bit. Give me, give me one faller before we take another quick break. Probably Jaden Quinten's, you know, like, it's just, you know, there was, he started the year, top 10 on pretty much everybody's board. He was, you know, the youngest player in college basketball as a freshman at Arizona State. He had an awesome year, just blocking everything and, you know, as a 17 year old, and, you know, he barely played this year. He played four games. He didn't look right. There's some concerns there about the medicals. You know, he's still only 18 years old. That it feels like a Robert Williams type situation where he might end up sliding into the mid 20s, but somebody's going to balance on him. One of these really good teams. And I think they're going to end up being really, really happy with him because, like, you know, you can't teach 6, 10, 7, 5, wingspan, you know, that versatility defensively. There's a lot to work with there, you know, like you think about like the spurs at 20, like, it's a pretty interesting guy to pair with someone like Victor. And so I'm really interested to see where this Jaden Quinten's end up on draft night. It's funny how some of those like fallers that fall and then a team pounces on them, especially if it's a smart team. It's like, oh my god, what a great shot in the dark. You know, this guy fell to them. And like the good number one guy coming to my mind is how excited everyone was for Cam Whitmore on the Rockets. And that like sometimes they fall. And it's like, oh, that's why they fell. The guy I've heard is, and we don't need to belabor this is co-up heat just because of concerns over his jump shot. But let's take, let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk really quickly some more offseason stuff. All right, let's wrap up by just, I wanted to go through like, interesting offseason teams that are not in the honest vortex and not in like the top five of the draft vortex with one exception that I'll get to in Memphis. Just because I think they deserve mention. I mentioned Atlanta at number eight. I think that's a pretty interesting. I think they're a very interesting team for a lot of reasons. They could open up cap space. They have CJ McCollum's free agency that could vaporize some of that cap space. They have Jonathan Camingas team option that they could do a number of different things with, including Traydom if they wanted to. And they have this number eight pick. And it's from New Orleans. And it didn't end up as as sexy a pick as they hoped it would be because New Orleans had a nice finish to the season. I just, this is based on almost no intel at all. I wonder if that pick is going to be available in some form for a veteran. And I keep coming back to, I'm shocked at how much I hear Tray Murphy's name in the rumor mill. I think that's partly like I don't think he would be adverse to a trade out of New Orleans. If I'm New Orleans, I'm like, actually, a good player. I'd like to have a good player and a good contract on my team. He'd be a great fit in pretty much anywhere. And I look at it team like the Warriors. I don't think 11 is going to get it done for Tray Murphy. And they have difficulty matching salaries and doing all sorts of other things. And they like Moses Moody's hurt Jimmy Butler's hurt. I wonder if eight could start the process of a Tray Murphy deal to Atlanta. I think Chicago also deserves a little mention in the trade because of Bryson Graham in whatever happens with Tray Murphy. But I think Atlanta's sneaky and interesting. Anything you want us to say on them? On Atlanta. Yeah, I mean, there's all these guards there. And they played without a traditional point guard since trading, trade young. So do they continue along those lines and just have this like super sized, big time defensive lineup, or do they go with just having all those guys give you the ability to go draft a Darius Acre for a McEl Brown or a Wogler or something like that because you can insulate them a lot better than on most NBA teams. And even if you're bringing that guy off the bench, that's okay. He comes in and he's a Spark plug as a rookie and it just eases the transition so much for a rookie like that to have those kind of defenders and veterans around you. - Detroit speaking of a trade Murphy. - I think they're gonna do something interesting this summer. I don't know if it's gonna be a draft. I don't know if it's gonna be a free agency. I don't know if it's gonna be via trade. They can also open up a decent amount of cap space. They've been mentioned as like a potential Austin Reeves landing spot. They'd have to do a lot of work to open up Austin Reeves level cap space. It's not impossible. I just think they had a rough first round series they win a seven game second round series they lose. It laid bare what they're missing, which is outside shooting around and secondary creation around their sort of centerpiece players. And I think they look at the East is like, okay, like we learned what we're missing. We're gonna do something. Something interesting that they didn't do at the trade deadline where they just sort of did the fringy Kevin Herder thing. I think there's a lot of interest around the league in Isaiah Stewart who has a handy salary for trade purposes based on just putting dots together. To buy his Harris as a free agent. He's a veteran leader on their team. I'm sure there's mutual interest in a deal being done there but we'll see what other alternatives to Pistons have. I just think to Pistons are gonna do something by their standards a little splashy. That's all. I don't even know where they even have a pick in the fring, I don't think they have a pick in this draft. - 21. - 21. From that swap, that's right, that swap with Minnesota. They go up to 21. So that's like not an uninteresting spot for them to be in. I just think they want to have the win on that. - Tyler Hiro sweepstakes, if they want to make a big offer for trade Murphy, you know, like what does Dallas do with Kyrie? You know, Markin and obviously that's gonna take a lot to get him but like they need shooting. And this is the perfect moment for them to go all in with their pieces and you know, like they don't probably need us, our Thompson and Ron Holling, like how well do those guys as they as two, they don't all compliment Kate Cunningham. Kate Cunningham needs a little bit more space to breathe. We saw, you know, in the playoffs and so any of those guys who could really, really shoot and take some pressure off of Kate would make a lot of sense. Now, the people aren't just gonna give them away but like they have the ability to go make a move here because their books are pretty clean and they have their picks moving forward. So, you know, why not go make an aggressive move if you're the Detroit Pistons? The time is now the East is wide open. - Other teams that are interesting. Toronto. - Toronto. - Filly? - Well, no, I'm just gonna, Filly is somewhat interesting. Well, what, make the case for Filly being on this list? - Well, you know, brand new president and Mike Gancy - True. - to lead slate for him. He could take this a lot of different directions, you know? Like if he wants to go to the ownership and say, let's blow this thing up, you know, like let's start over. Like get rid of John B. Let's do whatever we can to get off of Paul George. Let's start over. Let's build around DJ Edgecomb, you know, and Tyrese Maxey. I mean, that, you could make a case that that might be the move and if there's any time to do that, it's at the very beginning of this new transition into a brand new front office. Now, I mean, what are they gonna get back? I mean, getting off Paul George, like good luck with that. But it's, I mean, it's a thought to explore if they want to blow this thing up. I mean, and if there's a team, you know, even like at Detroit or something like that, it's like, we need another guy, you know, like to put next decade, those are two guys that, you know, like are proven players in the NBA. - Kauai, interesting fit in Detroit. No clue what's gonna happen with him. Obviously we're all waiting for Wachtel, Lipton, Rosen, and Katz, by the way, the law firm, congratulations. It's just world record billable hours on this aspiration. So you want to interview me, I'll come in for a couple of hours. I don't know anything, but like if you just need to get your billables up, I'll put on a suit, I'll walk into your office, I'll get someone to film it. We'll have a great time. I'll just, I'll plead the fifth. I've never pleaded the fifth before for any reason. I'd love to go in and plead the fifth. It would be a lot of fun. Toronto 19, number 19 pick. I just mentioned them because they are, they're good and there was some proof of concept than them being a good team. Scotty Barnes had an amazing playoffs. I don't know that they're any better than good, and they just have a lot of contracts and they have all their picks and swaps under control. I don't expect anything dramatic from them, but I'm just interested to see sort of, also OG and Adobe became a hero for another team, and there's that whole other storyline, but I'm just interested to see what they do. Indiana, like everyone forgot about the Pacers, then they traded for Zubat's. Albert and presumably will be healthy coming off the shingles thing and everything else. They're like, they ran rough shot over the Eastern Conference like yesterday, basically. So they're singing that regard, and they're also interesting. I'm going to read you all the players who are extension eligible for the Pacers. Pascal Siacum, Tyree's Halibur, Navita Zubat, Andrew Nemhart, Obey Toppin, Jaros Walker, Ben Shepherd, and Johnny Furfie, are all eligible for extensions. That's just a crazy amount of guys, including two max guys in Halibur and Siacum, that are eligible for extensions. They have multiple years left on their deal. Halibur and his three Siacum has two. Just a lot of interesting pivot points for the Pacers. I have no idea what they're going to do. Obviously, they are heartbroken having lost their pick in just who could have possibly seen it coming. Jonathan, we talked about this, the luck of the draw. And who else do I have on my list? Oh, they're in the top five, so they kind of like violate my rule of I don't want it to. I just think I'm very excited to watch Memphis next year because they move up in the lottery and they're gifted this third pick. Everyone thinks they want Booz or whatever, whoever they get is going to be very good because they're really, they're two keeper keepers and they have this Moran situation and any to resolve. Are towered who's just really good and can play with pretty much anybody. Like a wing who can shoot three is a handle the ball. It's just anybody. And Edie for 11 games last year was like fucking Godzilla and then just didn't play at all because of these ankle injuries. He'll come back presumably. Ty Jerome was a monster for 15 games and then he didn't play at all with Edie. They get this number three pick. I just, I'm just, I just can't wait to watch them play. I think they're going to be fun. Did you do is the boozer noise accurate to you? Oh, him and Zach Edie together. That's like straight out of the 80s. Like they're just gonna. Do it. Ryan people to a pulp inside to be like post up after post up after post up they're gonna be in the bonus 90 seconds into the game and it's gonna be awesome to watch. And so, you know, what do they do a job? How does he fit into all that? I'm not sure, but Memphis is always entertaining and so it'll be interesting to see what they do. I mean, they're always very aggressive on draft night. So do they, you know, do they do? I mean, they've got the picks and so they have 16 as well. Right. Like what are they gonna do with 16 teams? I think teams are calling in that range, like trying to get in and they could also just be like, we'll take, you know, I mean, then it starts or somebody like that with the whole nose. Just draft co-op Pete and just go in on, you know, post up guys. You put him at the three and just smash people with death all game long. One more team. I just, I, it's just they're not that interesting, but they are. People have kind of stopped talking about Minnesota because they have faded out of the honest discourse and I never really figured out how they were gonna get in on the honest discourse and who the hell knows if they're still secretly in it or not. I still think they watched those conference finals and said to themselves, like we're pretty good. Those two teams are only gonna get better and is probably gonna look around and be like, we need a little more juice here on the ball. Even Chanzo is gonna miss the, at least most of the season if not all of it next year. Randall had another bad playoffs. They don't have a ton of tools, although they get another pick that they can trade it when the calendar flips over. We just know Tim Connelly is adventurous and not afraid to push a lot of chips in, not afraid to shake up his team. I just don't like, I don't know how tradable their big salaries are. I don't know, like someone like Go Bear is pretty essential to how their team is built in plays. I don't know who really wants Randall to that degree. I just, I never, I always keep half an eye on Minnesota. I don't know if you've heard anything, but I always just keep half an eye. I don't know how they're gonna pivot, but I expect something unexpected from Minnesota. - Yeah, I mean, Tim Connelly, like you said, he's a deal maker. And so, I mean, if there's a trade to be made out there, if there's an opportunity to get in on like a three team trade or something like that, I hope you're right in the mix there. I mean, they've got their team. And I mean, Anthony Edwards is still only 24 years old. There's probably another gear he can still get to, you know, like JD MacDowns is 25. So it's not like they need to, you know, blow up the whole thing here. I mean, they had a pretty good year. They made the semis of Western comics. So like they're, they're, I don't see them, you know, drastically changing anything. And is there something along the margins that could they pick a mother, Paul Handler? I mean, that's probably what they're gonna end up doing. - I want to conclude by calling out what I think is the, and fake boldest take of in the media right now. The lamest and fake, but fakeest boldest. I don't know how to exactly say it, but I hate this take. I've seen a lot of people make it already and they pound their fists like it's a really bold take. And the take is, well, the Nix feel good story. They're not gonna repeat next year. Put it in the books. The Nix are gonna repeat. This is one in done. The league is gonna figure that out. Like great story. Harrah for New York, Harrah for Jalen Brunson. It is the lamest possible take to make four days after an insane championship run where they went 16 and three in the playoffs. And the reason I say fake boldest is like, and like, oh, we've had eight straight new champions. Your think it's like a big statement to come out and be like, I don't think the Nix are gonna repeat. It's like the safest fake boldest take possible. It's to take your most likely to be proven right with because you said it right in the aftermath. I told you they weren't gonna repeat. Yeah, no kidding. It's very unlikely that they repeat. It's very unlikely that anyone repeats. I will also say, I think because of how unusual Brunson is as a number one star. And how just unusual their season was in terms of like pretty good 53 win team. 16 and three jogger nod in the playoffs. I think people are sleeping a little bit on the 16 and three part. Like that's not a small sample size. And I know they didn't have to play Boston. What's Boston gonna look like next year? Do we know? Do we know for sure? Like they did not play great in the post season. I know they didn't have to play Oklahoma City. Obviously, like I would have picked Oklahoma City at full health to beat the Nix in the finals. I think they would walk in as my favorites next year. We don't know how the off scene is gonna shake out for any of these teams, including the Spurs, who beat Oklahoma City. Like Indiana, Zubat's is an interesting new piece. We'll see Detroit again. We'll see what they do in the off season Cleveland. In New York, just threw them out of the playoffs. Like they were a freaking pile of garbage going into a dumpster on the side of the road. Philadelphia or Lando, New Coach, Miami. We don't know who's gonna be on their team as a Yanis. Is it not Yanis? What's left over? Like I just wouldn't sleep on the possibility that the Nix are in the finals again next year. And if you're in the finals, you got a chance. So I think that take is both just so obvious as to be like wildly fake bold. And also I think kind of underestimating the next night. So I've heard it a lot. I've seen it a lot. I think it's just almost like a waste of air space. Done. End of podcast. Any thoughts? I would love to see the Nix back in the finals. I live in New York. I'm in Harlem. Like we had a watch party in front of my house. Every game. My kids are coming home from school, talking about basketball, asking about, asking questions. Have you ever met this guy? You're a met that guy? My kids never showed the slightest bit of interest in what I do for a living until the Nix is the final of all their friends at school who started talking about basketball and all that. So like, that was fun. Let's do that again. I'll say this. Again, I grew up hating the Nix. I am not a Nix fan. I don't. Now I have no emotions toward any team. I'm spock as Bill calls me. I do love New York City. I've lived there for almost-- I did live there for almost 20 years. It's my favorite place in the world. I've already done this, so I don't want to belabor it. I mentioned when I said that a few days ago, that Empire State of Mind was my wife and my wedding song when we got married. And I'm just like, I got a little. I'm a pretty like controlled guy. But when Alicia Keys performed in Ozal, Barato, and Kat are like, boppin and bouncing to Empire State of Mind. And she's like, within the Nix. I got a little emotional yesterday. And like, there's two million people there. Like, you can see all the way down the streets. And it's just endless seas of people. I was watching it on TV. There was no way in hell I was actually going to go and camp overnight or try to get a media pass to this thing. But I got a little emotional, Jonathan. I'm not a-- I'm not-- when she got up there and started belting out, I put a hand up for the big city. I was a little emotional. OK? So maybe that's why I don't like this take. So I'm a little emotional about New York City right now. It was a fun run. And I would love to do it again. Jonathan Gavoni, "Draft Express," "Follow Him On X," "Follow Him On Instagram." Where else can they follow you? TikTok, I guess. TikTok. All right. I don't know what's going on. I had number logged in once to TikTok. I allegedly we are on TikTok. And we have like 250,000 followers. So-- We have the same relationship with TikTok. I have a TikTok camp. No idea what's going on. No clue. I don't want to-- I have a video. Do your TikTok for you. You're missing out. Yeah, I don't know what's happening on TikTok. You're the best. Nobody knows the draft better than you. Stay tuned to everything he tweets, says, does. In the next four days, Gavoni, thanks for some of your time. I'll see you down the road, buddy. Thanks, Zach. Great to be with you. All right. That's it. Everybody enjoy the weekend. It could be a Newsy weekend. Thank you to Jonathan Gavoni of "Draft Express." He's incomparable. Thank you, as usual, to Jonathan, Mike, and Billy on production. And thanks, as always, to you all for listening to Andorne watching the Zach Locial. We'll be back next week. Kind of TBD, depending a little bit on news and by crazy travel event schedule that I have coming up. But stick with us. If anything happens, we will be here. The draft is on Tuesday. So something is going to happen while Croatia is playing Panama. And I'm in the stands in Toronto. God help us all. Thank you all for listening. See you soon. 21 are over. And president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, Starkesino, or 18 and over in president DC. Kentucky, or Wyoming, gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gamber, or 1-800-Myreset. Call 1-888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. Or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-877-8-Hope-NY or text-hope-NY in New York for the Louisiana. Call 1-877-770-7867.