Who Killed Rosanne Boyland?

This episode and this series contain descriptions and recordings of violence that some listeners might find disturbing. There are also references to drug abuse and a fair amount of profanities. We don't want you to be caught off guard. The president at the rally moments ago, riling this crowd up, telling them to go. I'm just getting a message right now saying all buildings within the Capitol complex, external security threat, no entry or exit is permitted. January 6, 2021. The situation at the U.S. Capitol is rapidly spiraling out of control. We are having a couple reports of people being injured in this breach of the security. All told in these 15 calls for injuries from the Capitol that all these numbers are expected to increase purpose. You have female clearly a lot of blood and the workers who were attending to her clearly attempting some resuscitation efforts. The writers trying to stop Congress from certifying the presidential election are overrunning police barricades and breaking through windows along the eastern side of the building. By about 2.15 pm, Trump supporters are running wild in the hallways and the House and Senate go into emergency recess. Congressman, how will they get you out of the building? Where will you go? You know, I'm not sure at this point, but we are moving downstairs into the basement. Our Senate producer has just tweeted out video that there are protesters now on the Senate floor. But at the same time, on the Capitol's West Front, a very different kind of fight is playing out. The West Front is the side facing the National Mall, the ceremonial side. A series of tiered plazas and grand staircases climb up the slope of Capitol Hill to a center entrance set back in a tunnel. It's easier ground for the police to defend and the protesters' advance is going much more slowly. A group of officers from the Metropolitan Police Department or MPD arrive in riot gear to reinforce the perimeter. Their body cameras are rolling. They push their way through a hostile crowd. Finally, the officers arrive at the barricade on the lower plaza. This is where the inauguration of Joe Biden is supposed to take place in just two weeks. But right now, it's a full-on battle scene. Police and protesters are openly brawling. The air is thick with pepper spray. One of the people on the other side of the metal fencing is a free speech activist and Trump supporter named Philip Anderson. It was an incredible moment. In Anderson's telling, police officers were attacking protesters. Everyone in the crowd saw it and momentum started to build. When there's all these people around you, the biggest crowd you've probably ever seen in your life, right, you're not thinking straight, people were just like screw it, this is our house, and they just started taking ground, and they started doing what they wanted. They're just like up these guys, and they just start pushing right through. At 2.35 pm, the police retreat up a wooden staircase behind the inauguration platform. And up onto the upper plaza, but the mob is right behind them. The police have no choice but to fall back into the tunnel and into the Capitol itself. It's here with the rioters banging on the doors that commanders give the order to defend the entrance by any means necessary. A group of officers forms up at the doorway and graces against each other with their arms pushing back against the mob. The rioters keep making their way to the tunnel, mounting assaults on the doors and waves, and dispersing as police push back. Among them is Phillip Anderson. There was about 50 people who tried to get in through that front big entrance. Out of the corner of his eye, he remembers seeing a woman in the crowd. There's nothing but men really, but she's at the back just standing there, kind of like Bob and her head a little bit, and I was like alright, and then all hell breaks loose from the police to begin gas, and we're not able to breathe. It wasn't even tear gas. Like I was like, I turn around, run away as fast as I can, collapse, fall, right on my face. Managed to get my arm in front of my face before that happened. Anderson says that as the rioters in the tunnel ran away from the gas, they fell on top of each other. He says he got crushed under a pile of 30 people. And that woman he had spotted, she ended up right next to him at the bottom. She was screaming a little bit and yelling for help, but then she went quiet. I guess she just realized that screaming wasn't going to do anything. She was just going to have to try and survive it. She was dying, and she didn't want to feel alone, so she grabbed my hand, and then she let's go. And when she let's go my hand, I'm like, I really am going to die. She just died. I'm going to die. Get off me, hell, hell, hell. And someone hears me and says hey, there's someone down here, and he starts pulling people off. Bodycam video shows the fighting raging on. Riders beating police officers with hockey sticks, even a crutch, shouting to knock their gas masks off. But if you stop the video at just the right moment, you can see something else. In the lower right hand corner of the frame, a young woman in a black sweatshirt in rib jeans, lying on her side, motionless. A man wearing a teal hoodie has his hand on her shoulder. He's trying to get help, and if you listen hard, you can hear what he's yelling. She's dead, he shouts, please, I need somebody. And then, Rosanne, Rosanne. Rosanne. The woman lying on this steps was 34 years old, but she wasn't a political diehard or a long time trump supporter. In fact, everything she'd come to think about the world, the fervent convictions that drove her to fight and die at the capital, she'd come to believe in the span of just a few short months. Her name was Rosanne Boyland, and this is her story. From MSNBC, I'm Aiman Muhajidin, and this is American Radical. Episode 1. Who killed Rosanne Boyland? I'm a reporter and host at MSNBC here in New York, but I started my career as a producer covering terrorism and conflict all over the world, including Europe and the Middle East. But I never thought my beat would take me back to the town where I went to high school, Kennesaw, Georgia. Three days after the Capitol riot, I was sitting in my office when I got a Facebook message from an old classmate of mine, Justin Cave. It said, "Aiman, I'm sure you've seen the news, I made a public statement about the death of my sister-in-law, Rosanne, from Kennesaw, who died on Wednesday at the Capitol. My wife and I believe she was radicalized in a very short time, inside of six months. Would you be willing to hear her story?" So this is kind of nerve-racking. We're heading to Justin and Lana's house. It's been a while, haven't seen Justin in a long time. Continue on Kennen Road for two miles. I spent years overseas reporting on extremism. and radicalism, it's kind of surreal to think I'm back here in Canisaw reporting on it in my own hometown. You know? You're never right. I think this is it. Yeah, this is it though. The house where Justin Cave lives with his wife Lana is a pale yellow rancher with a white pickup parked in the driveway and signs a family life everywhere. The grass is mounted down from footsteps and there are kids toys all over the place. I hadn't seen Justin in maybe 20 years and I'd never met Lana. It was a little awkward. I was a little nervous to be dropping in on an old friend and his family after so long and under such awful circumstances. Good morning. How are you? Good, how are you? Good. Oh yeah, just let me put it out. How are you guys? What's up buddy? How's it going? So good to see you. How are you? I'm good man. How are you? So good to see you. This is our dog, Penelope. What a beautiful dog. She's a little sweet. She's harmless. Yeah, she's happy. I think she smells the doughnuts. We got you special delivered food. Sour cream is the way to go, right? Justin and I met when we were 14 years old when I first moved to Kennesaw. I was born in Egypt but grew up in Jordan and had just moved to the United States. We were both in Mrs. Morrison's current affairs class and after school, we played on the varsity soccer team together. He still calls me by my soccer team nickname. It's an everyday I've got the Egyptian magician in my office. You haven't changed much, you know? Same spirit, which is the little older, a little heavier, a little gray hair. We're sitting in Lawn & Justin's office and as their two daughters, Lorelai and Annaly play nearby, we're looking at old photos and talking about Rosanne. She was a really awesome person. You know, she was always cracking jokes. She was always the first one to say I love you, like to my aunts and cousins and everything. She was my dad's best friend. They would go fishing and metal detecting and rock counting and RV trips, all kinds of stuff. So that was like his fishing buddy best friend. And she growing up was like really stubborn. We just goofed around a lot and we were crazy. So yeah, that's just the kind of person that she was. Tell me about this picture. So that is Rosanne. That was probably her favorite photo growing up. She's standing doing the, you know, her arms up in the air, wearing a bikini on the beach. She said that's probably the last time that she wore a bikini on the beach. She's like seven or nine or something. Because then she started getting a little bit chubby. She was like, "I look so skinny in that picture." So it was her favorite one. There's a picture over here of me and Rosanne with the girls at the wedding. So there was a hurricane that came through town. So half the people didn't show up to the wedding. The wind was like blowing a hundred miles an hour. It was raining. I didn't get to do my grand walk down. My dad had to drive me in his truck. And I forgot my bouquet. So Rosanne's like, "Where's it at?" And I was like, "I don't know." So she had to run back up to the cabin where I was getting ready and go grab it for me. She would drop everything to help people. She didn't really like put herself first ever. It still was hard for me to look at the pictures because I missed her so much. And like, Innoley was saying the other day, "I just want to hold Rosanne. I just want to be able to squeeze her and hug her." She's a big cutler. Innoley is. So that's kind of how I feel. Whenever I look at the pictures, it's like just this hole. Almost like a, that is hard to explain. Take me back to January the 6th that day. How did you guys find out about Rosanne? I was at work and I remember I came home a little bit early. Lana was really concerned, like really upset. Lana is an administrator at a small event decoration business where her boss always has the TV on Fox News. Trump rally goers continue to make their way up to the Capitol in this protest. It was playing in the background. And so I'm sitting there, you know, doing work stuff, answering emails, making quotes. And I hear Trump on there talking about, you know, let's march to the Capitol, you know, blah, blah, blah. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore. And that's what this is all about. She knew her sister had gone to DC for the Save America March. But she didn't know a lot about it. She texted Rosanne, but hadn't heard much back. And what she was seeing Trump say on TV was stressing her out. We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede with this theft involved. He's like, you know, getting everybody hyped up. And I was like, what the fuck, you know, and then my co-worker, Alyssa, was like, are you worried? I'm like, yeah, I'm worried. It's like going to turn into something bad. And that's when I left work. I was like, I got to go. I'm not going to do any work because I'm just thinking the worst. So I went home because I was like, oh, let me get home before traffic gets bad. Meanwhile, Lana's father, Brett Boylan, was at his house watching the coverage of Trump's beach, too. He'd also exchanged a few texts with his daughter, Rosanne, and the friend she had gone up with, a guy he hadn't met, named Justin Winchell. The night they met to drive up, he had sent me a message from his phone somewhere around midnight, saying this is Justin, this is my number. I'm riding up with Rosanne. In case you have any trouble getting ahold of her through her phone, you got my number, too. So that day, I had sent some messages back and forth to both of them. Here, Brett pulls out his phone. This is the very first one where he was texting me on the way up there. So you're welcome to breeze through all of it. That's fine. The first message is from Winchell at 12.48 AM on the 6. He says, "Hi, Brett. This is Justin. I'm going to DC with Rosanne. If you can't reach her, I'm available for contact. Hope you're having a great night. America will prevail." And then an American flag emoji, a hard emoji, and a trophy emoji. About 12 hours later, around noon on the 6, Brett texted Winchell back. You know, we were at home that day. I was watching some of that coverage on TV. All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen. So I would send in the message, hey, they're showing this, you know, part of the speech, you know, "Are you up there near the stage?" And, you know, they kind of tell me where they were. Where they were was in the heart of the crowd. Now moving east from the White House towards the Capitol. Justin texted, "We are heading to the Capitol building with the masses of patriots. Hope you're having a great one. We are doing you proud." For a while, everything seemed fine. Justin sent a selfie of Rosanne and him smiling, Rosanne wearing American flag sunglasses. And then a photo of Rosanne with a yellow flag over her shoulder that said, "Don't tread on me." But soon enough, Brett could tell that things were taking a turn. This was clearly a very severe injury. When they were showing the real crazy stuff happening on TV, I kind of told them that, you know, you guys probably should leave and go do some sightseeing or something. Brett was trying to be lighthearted, but he was getting increasingly worried. He sent a couple more messages. 6 p.m. curfew better get out shortly. He wrote at about 4 p.m. And then let us know what's happening. But he didn't get a response. Later that day, Justin Kay found his wife glue to the TV in a state of near panic. Lana had been trying to call Rosanne, but no one was answering. It was looking really bad on TV, you know, the whole riot scene. All of a sudden, they said one person had died, and then another person had died. And Lana was hysterical, and she was like, "It's Rosanne." I know it's Rosanne. I was like, you know, it's not Rosanne. There's a lot of people there just relax. But Lana couldn't shake the feeling that one of the people who had died at the Capitol was her sister. At 5.30 p.m., she decided to send one more message to Rosanne. I texted her, "You all good." And I didn't ever hear anything back. I just knew just because Rosanne always answers the phone, she's not an irresponsible person. That's one thing that Rosanne would always check in. Anytime she did anything, she was always calling my parents. She was always checking in because she didn't want them to worry. And so I just knew it was her, just in my core, am I being? What Lana didn't know was that at around 4.30 p.m., her dad had finally gotten a response from Justin Winshel. He sent me a message back that said, "Please call me. I need to talk to you about Rosanne. She'd been hurt." So I called and talked to him. He said that she had gotten in the big crowd and she got knocked down with a bunch of other people. a bunch of other people fell on top of her. She was trapped under some people and couldn't breathe and lost consciousness, you know, at that point, with people laying on top of her. And he said he had kind of held onto her hand. He was pulled a couple of people off of her. And he said a couple of the protesters, who I guess were CPR trained, you know, they were attempting CPR on her. They carried her up to the entryway there at the police line. And later found out, you know, that the police had carried her inside and tried CPR also. But windshield didn't know what had happened after that. So Roseanne's mother Cheryl decided to take charge. I call the every fire department and hospital emergency room in the whole Metro DC area, everyone. And they all insisted she wasn't there. Finally, a little before midnight, she got a call back. A policeman called me saying, 'cause I called several police departments and he said, I believe we have your daughter. So I thought maybe she'd been arrested at first. But when he said, does she have a tattoo, then I knew she was dead, right then. My mom called me at midnight. And anytime your parent calls you after 10 or 11 o'clock, it's not good. She just said, we're so instead. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Lana and Justin were up all night crying in disbelief. But morning brought an awful new problem. The grieving family was going to have to deal with the press, which was now starting to gather at Roseanne's parents' house. - The Lana's husband's in her message or call her, whatever, they just released Roseanne's name. And then immediately our phone rang and it was the news agency, like not even 30 seconds after the woman had just told us that she hadn't officially been identified. I had my husband go get our no trespassing sign. We had from the pool in the backyard part and put it on the mailbox. - It slowed him down, so. They just parked me on the road. - And put all the house phones and they have been plugged back in since then. - But the media interest was just too intense. And as the day went on, a crowd of reporters assembled outside. Sheryl and Brett were overwhelmed. So Lana and Justin headed over for moral support. Justin, who had actually done a few stints as a TV host, thought he knew how to help. - They wanted a statement and this and that and they weren't going away. So I prepared a written statement and read it for everybody that was in the front yard. - But then, Justin decided to go off script. Pretty bold. - Are you to say that? - Yeah, you know, it was shortly thereafter that we started getting threats. (dramatic music) As we watched these awful events unfold, we hope that Rosanne was not among the crowd. - On January 7th, Justin Cave stepped in front of the cameras, gathered in front of his in-laws house. - We have little information at this time and we're waiting with the rest of the world to uncover the specifics. Our family is grieving on every level for our country and for the families that have lost the loved one and our suffered injuries and for our own loss. We appreciate your prayers and ask for everyone to respect our family's privacy as we mourn our death. - Justin's written statement was polished and professional. But as he spoke, his anger seemed to get the better of him. - This is where I came off my prepared statement and I said, "On a personal note." - It's my own personal belief that the president's words incited a riot that killed four of his biggest fans last night and I believe that we should invoke the 25th Amendment at this time. - I've never been a political person and for years, I've had to listen to everybody else's political opinion and I think subconsciously, ultimately, I made the decision to make mine. - A passionate plea there, not mincing words on brother-in-law. This family very upset tonight. - Boyle's brother-in-law acknowledged his sister-in-law was passionate about her beliefs, rebuking the president's actions. - You'll hear much more from this grieving family coming up in the next hour at six o'clock. For now, I'm live in Kennesaw, Megan. - Justin's moment of improv got tons of coverage and people in the largely conservative town of Kennesaw heard the accusation in his words that what happened on January 6th rested solely on the shoulders of the president and they responded. - The week that's happened, my mother and my stepfather had their vehicles broken into and their American flag snapped off the flag, pulled at their house. Lana's dad was getting letters like, "Here's some roses for your dead redneck daughters casket. We've got a lot of calls. Social media, you know, anti-row-row is flat-flat." - But what ultimately got to Justin the most, were the attacks he got from his friends? - Did what you say cost you any relationships? - Yeah, I had a big problem with the coworker the following morning after this happened. You know, we're not friends anymore. - No, he comes from quite the conservative family and friend group because he's, you know, white male living in Georgia who has a beard and, you know, hunts and all that stuff. So most of his family and friends were pissed at him and so that was a real rude awakening for him to realize that, "Hey, we don't live in a perfect bubble." You know, he was just living in this like, white male privilege life not realizing that like real life shit happens. - The weeks and months after this, I couldn't go back to work. I didn't leave my house for a month. - Why? - I don't know. I went through some very intense paranoia that I can't really explain, but it was very unhealthy, very unhealthy. You know, we got a package one day and I ended up yelling at the lawn on the girls 'cause I thought it was a bomb and I went out in the driveway by myself and opened it and it was not of something she ordered from Amazon and then I cried, which I'm like, "This is not healthy." You know, this is not normal. - Justin started making voice recordings for us. Checkings about what he was going through and what had happened on a given day. - So here we go. I want you to know something about me. I'm kind of like I have a very busy mind. I talk to myself a lot, like out loud or under my breath. Lana pulled me aside last night and was really upset again because I'm not present. My kids will be talking to me and they're like, "Dadda, dadda, they'll both say it 20 times." I'm sitting right there and I'm just not listening. I'm not present and I'm more focused on my anger. I wanted to give you the definition of depression. Simple definition is depression's a constant feeling of sadness and loss of interest, which stops you from doing your normal activities. And I think that I'm suffering from it. You know, what I haven't told anybody is I cry, like 20 times a day, like I don't think it's healthy. It's two o'clock in the morning here. I'm gonna try to go to bed and get some sleep. Have a good night, bye. (soft music) It didn't help that the family was now coming under attack from both sides of the political spectrum. On the one hand were the people who thought Justin had betrayed the Trump cause. On the other hand were the people who thought Roseanne and the other rioters were lawless insurrectionists who deserved what they got. - You know, she was being used as such a political football and it's like nobody really gives a shit about her as a person, like, you know, but her family and friends do. And for her to be treated like that by the people that were around her, by the media, by all the assholes on Twitter that, you know, that don't even know her, like, it's just a shitty way for anyone to go and to be remembered. - It bothers you how she was remembered. - Yeah, 'cause that's not the person that she was. She was like the nicest person that I knew, like, just genuinely cared about you and genuinely cared about how you were doing and, you know, what was going on in your life and how could she help you and all that stuff. Like, most people don't, you know, they'll say, "Hey, can I do something for you?" But they don't really mean it. They're hoping that you say, "No," you know, or she was hoping that you said, "Yes," because she really did want to help you. - But the reality is, that version of Roseanne left out a key twist. In the last six months of her life, Roseanne Boylin had become a completely different person. (gentle music) For most of her adulthood, Roseanne lived in the same house she grew up in, a small place on Night's Bridge Road with her parents, Bretton Sheryl. She had dreamed of becoming a doctor, but while she had held down a few odd jobs here and there, she could never really get a career going. That was largely because of her history with drugs, a problem that had started back in high school. But Roseanne had stopped using seven years earlier in 2014, and so she and her parents had entered into this kind of steady equilibrium. Bretton Sheryl supported their daughter financially, and in return, Roseanne went to AA meetings where she worked hard on her sobriety. And for the most part, it worked. Roseanne stayed clean, spent her days doing things she liked, like listening to alternative bands, collecting knickknacks, making friends with people in the recovery community. The Boylins were happy, but then Rosanne started doing things out of her. character. One day she asked her dad if she could watch Fox News with him. This was in the summer of 2020. That is probably the first time she had ever shown any kind of interest in any politics. It got to where she would come in and specifically ask if I was going to watch certain shows on TV. A lot of stuff on Fox News, she was asking if I was going to watch this or the other episode and she specifically said she wanted to come in and watch or say she wanted to record it, which, you know, that was a surprise to me. Specifically Brett says that she started showing an interest in President Trump and that was particularly odd because just weeks earlier. Weeks, not months, Roseanne had been ripping him. She would send like memes of, you know, how he stands with his butt out and all the, the memes that make fun of him. She would share on the little family Instagram thing. It was always a good chuckle. What Lana is talking about is Roseanne's activity on the family group chat where Roseanne would send dozens of memes that made fun of Donald Trump. Roseanne's little sister Blair Boyland says the same thing that for the first half of 2020, it really seemed like Roseanne was, if anything, anti-Trump. We didn't really have any deep conversations about him, but just kind of the, you know, cultural side guys to just sharing jokes about him and stuff. And I remember one specific story from Roseanne's friend, she had mentioned there was a like Facebook group that the high school, some kind of like Trump supporter group, and she had made a joke to Roseanne like, oh, I'm going to add you to the Trump group. And Roseanne was like, oh, my God, don't do that. You know, kind of reaction. My producer, Prithi Varathan, who traveled to Georgia with me, jumped in. It sounds like it around the six month mark prior to her death, something sort of shifted and changed. Do you mind telling me a little bit about that? How did you experience that? So it's kind of just felt like it just all this sudden happened really quickly. So actually, I was looking at this last night, kind of crazy enough as the first time I really went on Roseanne's Instagram in a long time, just to kind of see where I felt things kind of started changing. So this one, she posted in July 29th. And it's basically just like a screenshot of someone's tweet. And it's saying crazy how the internet cannot eliminate child pornography, the root demand for child trafficking, but can censor block and delete all conspiracy theories and facts. Roseanne had put quotes around the words conspiracy theories. And then literally the following day, she posted the fact that no news channel talks about child trafficking should concern everyone. July 30th is hashtag world day against human trafficking. Just wanted to let y'all know since I find it strange to not see or hear anything about it. Soon Roseanne was posting about conspiracy theories incessantly. And most of them included the same element, people praying on kids. They were so startling even Lana's friends took notice. They were asking me like, Hey, is everything okay with her? She's posting all this crazy off the wall post. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's fine. You know, she's just looking into these conspiracy theories. It's fine. But clearly she was not fine. They were worried because they saw what she was posting on Facebook. Yeah. And it was like a lot like not just like she would post something weird off the wall. It would be like 10 times a day. It was like an obsession. Not long after Roseanne's death, it started to become clear that she had fallen for the sprawling conspiracy movement known as QAnon. You probably know a fair amount about it by now. But just in brief, QAnon followers believe that top Democrats and Hollywood figures are part of a secret group of Satan worshipping pedophiles who Donald Trump was fighting to defeat. At this point though, Lana still didn't know what QAnon was, but Blair did. She had seen people talking about it on Reddit and she was concerned. So I just started to get worried just because I know Roseanne can become like obsessive about stuff. So I was just worried about that on a certain level. And I did talk to Lana about it and also my mom just kind of told them like I remember talking to both of them individually just saying, Hey, do you know what QAnon is? I think this is something Roseanne's getting into from what I've seen to some of the hashtags. She didn't know how serious this was going to be. Yeah, no. For sure. None of us did. It wasn't until Christmas that the family realized just how much she changed. That's a video of the Boyland Family Christmas celebration, which for the past few years had been adjusted on Lana's house. Lana's parents, Roseanne and Blair would usually arrive in the early afternoon and almost immediately Roseanne would start taking pictures. She'd capture the food, the stockings, but mostly her attention would be on Lana's daughters. In fact, one of the only surviving videos of Roseanne is of her playing with them. Emily, Emily, hey, she wanted every day for these girls to be special, even simple school days. Instead of asking how was your day, she would pick different questions to ask like, what did you do nice for someone today? Or what was something that made you laugh today? Or you know, something more special and meaningful than just how was your day? So when Roseanne arrived at Lana's house on Christmas that year, she expected her to rush through the door and offer to play with the girls, but that isn't what happened. She just kind of sat on the couch and was on her phone most of the time and just kind of looked like kind of annoyed that she had to be here, you know, kind of like she wanted to be somewhere else kind of vibe. She was not present. She would be in the room, but Roseanne was never really there. The way Lana remembers it, Roseanne barely spoke to her girls. Or anyone else for that matter, she sat on the couch, sulking, quiet, scrolling through her phone. Everybody's opening up presents and she's just sitting there texting people, looking at whatever and she left all of her Christmas presents here. That's how like not present she was. She was probably already planning her trip up to Washington DC at that point. Whatever she was involved with was consuming her. In the weeks after Roseanne's death, Justin told people, "Trump killed her." Blair said it was queuing on. But Lana found herself fixating on one question. Who was it that Roseanne had been texting with at Christmas? She pretty much cut out all of the family and friends, but she was always talking to somebody. So I think that's why we want to know so bad who it was that she had spent those last six months with. Lana had someone in mind. The guy Roseanne went to the Capitol with. No one really knew him. Breton Cheryl had never met him. Lana Justin hadn't even heard his name until after Roseanne died. But for all of them, that name was about to become an obsession. Justin windshield. Next time on American Radical. I knew I was getting something that nobody else in the market would have. Do you have any idea where he is now? He's nowhere to be found. And I have no idea where he could be. Clicking through the names here, I'm trying to see if I can find Winchell on the thing. Winchell. Justin Winchell. From MSNBC, this is episode one of five of American Radical. The series was reported and produced by Prithi Varathon with Eva Ruth Moravak and Ursula Summer. Additional production help from Abe Selby and Olivia Rashard. Original music by Brian Robertson and MJ Hancock. Sound Design by Rick Kwan. Bryson Barnes is our technical director. Reed Churland is our executive producer. Madeline Herringer is our head of editorial.