Who got Organized Crime OUT of Las Vegas? Meet Author Nelson Conway("Vegas Inc.")!

The Sherpa screening room is a presentation of podcast picks with Jim the podcast Sherpa. These are episodes featuring interviews with artists and creators from various fields. Coincidentally, when the Sherpa tries to be entertaining, afterwards, he gets abandoned in various fields. Coming to you from Sherpa Shalai in beautiful downtown Mt. Podkastia, it's time for entertainment interviews in the Sherpa screening room, grab a Nile seat, and a bucket of popcorn but don't crunch too loud or you'll miss the show. Now, here's your host, Jim the podcast Sherpa. Hello there, Rebels of the Sherpa Lucian and welcome to the Sherpa screening room. It is a side project of podcast picks with Jim the podcast Sherpa. That, of course, is me. I am coming to you from Sherpa Luke studios here in the Sherpa Shalai. I have taught Mt. Podkastia where I overlook the millions and millions of podcasts that are out there. But in these episodes, we like to focus on the creators, you know, actors, singers, dancers, directors, authors. And people with really interesting stories to tell. And a while back, if you have been listening, I hope you have been. We did an interview with some gentleman who wrote a book called The Watch Stands as Written, which was about a curious naval tradition that on New Year's Eve, the sailors would write the overnight watch in verse. And it speaks a history that not a lot of people really knew much about nice, especially didn't know anything about it. And really learned a lot that day. And with this episode, we bring you a little bit more of behind the scenes history, really. My guest, his name is Nelson Conway and he's coming to us from Colorado. And he wrote a book about his father and how his father and a group of businessmen ultimately ended up getting casinos run by businessmen and not by the mob during the 50s and 60s. And if you listen to a story, it's really fascinating. It wasn't an easy task for them. Stuff you love, I love Vegas, not knocking it. It's amazing what they've done with that when you think about what it was like in the early years. And his book really covers the story back from the 50s and the 60s when organized crime at a hand in practically every casino that was in Las Vegas. Nelson told me after our interview, I think I should bring this up, he said he looked up his dad on the internet to find out about his accomplishments and he said, I didn't find anything. But his father had really accomplished a lot in his lifetime and he felt by writing this book, it was a good way to honor him and I would agree with that 100% fascinating read. And this is a really interesting interview. So let's have a listen to my conversation with Nelson Conway, the author of Vegas Inc. Hello there, Rebels. We are here in the Sherpas screening room. My guest today is and first time author actually this is his first book. It is called Vegas Incorporated. And of all sort of if it's about his dad, it's his name is Nelson Conway, Jr. And his book is about Nelson Conway, Sr. And it has to do with how he and a group of investors got involved with investing in Las Vegas while staying clear of the mob. And he's joined us today to fill a little bit on his book. Nelson, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. And I will say that he tried to stay clear of them. Let's let's be honest. That was a fooling clear, right? That was the thing that I learned when I was doing some of my research is it was impossible. Right. They presented themselves as totally upstanding, totally upright. And they were people. They were honest people. They did honest business. They were not gangsters or crooks him and his business associates. And for all that I knew is that they never talked to a mobster, never knew, never had to do business with them, which I found out after doing some research was impossible. Right. They were everywhere. You're probably going to swing a dead body without finding another mobster on the end of it, right? Not in the gambling industry. No. And they pretty much had a stranglehold on it for most of the 50s anyway, right? They did 50s and 60s. I would say even the 70s. And one of the things that surprised me during my research is that I thought maybe some of the casinos were mobbed up. All of them were mobbed up with very few exceptions. There was one called the Haseyenda. There was one that my dad and his investment group built called the showboat that they they were determined to because the mob wouldn't let you go. I mean, if you people that wanted to do and just run an honest straight gambling operation, the mob wouldn't let you get away with it. They had to have their peace. Right. And part of the story in the book is this group which and its reason for being, I believe, that came together was called the El Cortez investment group. They came together with the hope that that as a group, they could withstand the pressure of the mob and open up this honest casino, the showboat. And well, that's part of the story. I can talk about that later. So yeah. So anyway, so that's it. So for instance, you were actually born in Las Vegas. I was. Yes. A sweltering desert in the summertime for a kid. No trees. All we could do to entertain ourselves was dig holes in the desert. And and and put plywood over them and make forts that way. Yeah, pretty interesting experience as a young kid. About how old were you when all of this was happening with your dad and the showboat? Well, let's see. I was just born when the showboat opened. And so I saw, you know, and then so so when the showboat opened in 1954. And so I'm watching dad and his partners, which were all our close friends. We were all family. They were family friends. So I knew most of his partners as a child as a kid. And watching them go through the trials and tribulations. Yeah, it was really interesting. He a lot of times I probably spent more time in a casino as a young kid than most people in lot kids in Las Vegas, just because my father was an accountant. He was a CPA. He had and he created the largest CPA firm in Nevada, actually. It was the go to place. And he was doing books or doing yearly audits or things like this for a number of casinos and resorts. And but just by default, I would end up. He'd take me with him for some reason. I'm not sure. Take me with him. And then he'd leave me in in just outside the casino pit and go do stuff. And I'd watch the casinos. I'd watch people, people gamble. I love and I love that as a kid. You weren't doing any minor gambling or anything like that where you just taking in the sights. Just taking in the sights. They they tolerated me because they knew I was dad's kid. And and he was part of the, you know, you might say, I don't know if that's the right word to say, but they were the top group of movers and shakers. And pretty much if you did business in the gambling industry or business in general, you knew who my father was. You knew my father's partners were and probably knew by sight at least who his kids looked like. So they kind of tolerated me, but I couldn't get too close. I could watch. Okay, yeah, and you were one of seven kids because you had a you had a blended family had a blended family seven kids. Two from my dad's previous marriage, two from my mother's previous marriage and then two from my from from dad Nelson Conway senior and and Francis Rowley, yeah. Okay, were they with the other kids in your family did they have the same sort of curiosity in the casinos like you did or you you just kind of like you doing your own thing. I was pretty much doing my own thing. I was the youngest of the seven. And a lot of the so so I'm I'm just in my formative years and my brothers and sisters most of them were like 10 or 13 years older than I was. So they had a different experience in Las Vegas and that's kind of interesting when I bump up against them because I'll say, hey, this is what happened and this is it and they go, you don't know what you're talking about because we were there and we were 10 years older. so they tell me, you know, what was what and stuff. But yeah, so I was pretty much on my own with my brother, my brother, Carl. - So how did a lot of this information about the book come your way? I mean, if you were so young, it was mostly through your siblings or the, like obviously I don't think your dad would have been like, well, you know, if they were mobsters there and let me tell you about some organized crimes on. - Absolutely true. In fact, my feeling was and I felt like he let the whole family believe that he never engaged with mobsters, never talked to them. Of course, he's doing books for mobbed up casinos, you know, at the same time. So regardless, well, it wasn't just the 50s, it was the 60s as well. So the 60s is where the beginning of the 60s is where my memory really kicks in, the rat pack and the 60s were big, big mob years. Big gangster years in Las Vegas. So it's that and yes, conversations with my siblings and just a lot of research, the research blew me away. As an example, I had no idea how involved my father was in the community life of Las Vegas. I thought he belonged to the Lions Club and, you know, Rotary and, you know, something blah, blah, and that was it. And it made sense to me because when I was a kid, he was never home at night. Either he or either he by himself or my mom and dad were always out doing things. And I just took it, you know, and you just accept that. Well, he was out being a member of the March of Dimes and doing something or doing a fundraiser for the community chest or was on the board of the water district that they were running out of water because there were so many people coming in that they had, they had, they were just getting water from a water table underneath the desert. And it was running not dry, but it was getting very thin and they figured they had to go get water from Hoover Dam. And that was a big, one of those say it might be a pivotal moment in Las Vegas if they hadn't been able to do that. They would have been in big trouble. Well, he's a member of the water board. And the lists just go on and on. I could just keep talking about the guy, one way to say it is when I was doing my research, I looked at the contemporary Las Vegas Review Journal. And there was an article that featured my dad in one way or another two or three times a week. And it had some of it was social engagements, but then it was about research and cancer research or that he was getting together with this group of people and they were bringing a baseball team to Las Vegas because you know, so the research just blew me away. And it also was the research that showed me how involved he was had to be engaging with gangsters and mob characters. It really must have been an interesting kind of contradiction of you, dad, that way that he's just civic minded, you know, it's probably straight lace, corporate CTA. And what does he got to do? He's got to deal with but the seagulls thing in the casino. Yes, I don't know if you read that in my book, but I always found that fascinating. He, my father would never tell me about gangsters at all, but when I went to college, he told me the story about him bumping into Bugsie Seagull at the Flamingo. And the Flamingo, by the way, I think probably everyone is heard about the Flamingo and Bugsie Seagull in some version. And it was, when it opened up, there was a three-day opening, it was a riot. It, what people were in shoehorned into that Flamingo. Everyone wanted to come and see Bugsie in Virginia Hill and see what all this, because they were the first mobs in Las Vegas, well East Coast mobsters in Las Vegas. And they all wanted to come and see what all this stuff was about. And he's sitting watching all this and enjoying himself leaning on a slot machine with a drink in his hand. And in comes this guy with in a tux and a red boot near. And he looks over at my father and walks up to him and says, can I swear? Yeah, I'm not. OK, I just wanted to make sure, because this is what he said. He goes, get off the damn machine. And my father is in 1946, and he just got out of the Navy. He's a lieutenant commander. And he's not used to being talked to by a stranger like that. So he stands up, kind of gets his back up and he goes, who the hell are you? And this guy gets in his face and he goes, my name is Ben Seagull. Now get off the fucking machine. And my dad kind of went, oh, yeah, well, and so he got off the machine. Have a nice day, sir. Then looked at him and kind of sized him up and kind of went, oh, you're not worth it and dismissed him and went on. But yeah, so and that was-- so my dad had those kinds of experiences with these early gangsters. And I tell you, these early gangsters, they were charismatic and they were frightening, depending on the moment. They were a great time. I mean, you could have a great time with them. They were very sociable. A eacross him. And especially someone like Bugsy Seagull, he would snap. And you wouldn't even see it coming. And boom. And some violent act would happen for practically no reason. Maybe an insult he saw or perceived. He was extremely vain. He would go to bed and put creams on his face like this. Because he wanted wrinkles. He put a chin strap on. He wore a hair and net. He was very vain about his hair, because his hair was thinning. And it was like, he had to be perfect. Interesting character. Yeah, you don't think about them in that sort of light. They would have deem really had these insecurities when they had all that power. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, the worst thing you could do was calling Bugsy to his face. And you were looking for a beating, if you did. It didn't matter where you were. Because Bugsy really didn't care. He didn't care of a social setting, whatever. If he would just go off. And of course, that's code for crazy as a bed bug. That he got that nickname in his first gang. Because he had just kind of-- things would set him off. And Meyer Lansky, who was another gangster, was in this gang with Bugsy when he was a kid, always looked out to see if Bugsy started bleeding from the nose. Like if they were in some kind of conflict, another street gang, or someone was giving them some crap about something. If the nose started bleeding, Meyer goes, we're leaving. Then you do everything to get him out before, because he was going to snap. Then he's going to snap. And when he snapped, you couldn't stop him. He'd beat a guy to a pulp. He'd kill him before he'd stop. Yeah, wow. I think, yeah, crazy. Yeah, that's definitely pretty intense. So I mean, when you were a kid, what was so different about Vegas back then as to now? I mean, now it's really a giant corporate city. A corporate-- Yes. In Fested City, from Black and Lebedo Ward. Yeah. Well, what's the difference? Small town-- you have to go somewhere where there's 40,000 people, extremely isolated. The summers were 110, 112 degrees. You'd have days of 110, 112 degrees. Just brutal, just brutal stuff. But at the same time, there was a beauty and a silent kind of desolate beauty to the place. Yeah. Now, when it comes to living around there and such, I don't know. I think it was pretty-- it was kind of average, really. It wasn't that unusual. In terms of what was going on that I now know through my father and that, these were the years-- the golden years of Las Vegas gambling and Las Vegas strip. It's an interesting-- just the position that you've got these violent gangsters. They're there to skim millions of tax-free money off. They're cheating. It's illegal and everything. But when it came to how they dealt with the tourists and the customers, they created an experience that has never been equaled. They made it personal. They-- I guess they thought there was their bread and butter. And they made it personal. It's like, in my time there, a little like in the '60s, when I was there, I remember hearing stories and kind of seeing this happen, where they would go to the point of, like, say, if a Mr. and Mrs. Smith had-- gone to the dunes of resort three years in a row in July. Then they had this system where they would write all this down. And when they came the next year in July, they'd register, the name would go, the thing would go out, they'd walk on the floor, and the pit boss would go, "Hello, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it's so good to see you again." Come over here. You like to play 21, don't you? You know, and all these things, these guys were serious about doing this. And you like to play 20? Yeah, and don't you drink bourbon in seven? Yeah, we're going to get you a bourbon in seven. Just, you know, come on, it's a good bourbon in seven. It was amazing. It was such an environment that created that the celebrities, Hollywood celebrities, movie stars, stage stars, sports, sports celebrities, we're also vacationing in Las Vegas. So especially in the early 60s, you would see people you'd recognize, like Jimmy Durant, well, you know, people would, hopefully they know the name now, but Jimmy Duranty, you just went across him on the street, Jerry Lewis, Groucho Marx, people like that. You'd find them in the cafes, you'd go to a show and they'd be sitting next to you. It was a very magical experience. So yeah, I guess, you know, in kind of like a contradictory way, the law was on their sides, because here they were in a city where there was legalized gambling and legalized prostitution. So they really had to bring, you know, the people to the city, I guess. And that was probably, you know, maybe the psychology behind, you know, that special treatment. Well, it was a little crazy in the sense that I don't know, I don't think anybody expected to happen what happened in the late 50s and the 60s. They started bringing millions of tourists, Kim de Las Vegas, millions. Right. And they were dropping tens of millions of dollars. And this didn't just go to them. It went to, it poured out into the community. Las Vegas economy was bursting at the seams. And it's, the mob had a very big component of that by how they treated their customers. Lots of comps, you know, making them feel at home, making them feel kind of like, almost like, like you might say, a distant cousin that you go to visit somewhere, and they treat you a little, little special. Sure. It was, it really was. That's the difference between then and today. Right. And I've given a lot of thought because I always hear, and I've, I've always heard, you know, oh, when the mob ran Las Vegas, it was always better. And sometimes I think, well, that's just, that's just nostalgia or whatever. Right. But looking through and kind of this and then that and back and forth, there was something special about those years. It really was. Did you feel that like with what your dad and his associates did really opened up the doors for a lot of corporate investment into Las Vegas? Or do you think it just took a little bit more time? And maybe people just kind of looked back and said, well, you know what, if Nelson Sr. did it, maybe we can do it. Well, that's actually what happened. And we're talking about all this other stuff, but we're kind of getting back to the book. All the, all the main, one of the things I realized growing up in Las Vegas and when even I left to college and stuff, I'd come back every year because my family stayed in Las Vegas is that all the stories out there are from the outside looking in. There are either stories of gangsters and their lurid things about killing people, a car bombs and such or it's about the experience of tourists coming and experiencing some of the things of about the magical years of late 50s and nearly 60s and stuff. But there's almost no, in fact there isn't any conversation about what it was like to be a businessman in Las Vegas doing the gambling business and doing great. Thank you. The resort gambling business was doing fine without the mob. I was well established. They were making good money and to have these gangsters come in from 2000 miles away and come in and just push you aside and either you did it nicely or you or you didn't or you did it not nicely, but you got pushed aside and they had to struggle for survival. And my father got caught in a catch 22. When he came to Las Vegas, it was 1945 and he came not knowing the mob would be there because that 1945 was the year that Bubsy Bugsie was building the flamingo. And so he came here and then not too much long business. Suddenly he sees himself, all the casinos and the resorts are gang owned and that's his bread and butter. What's he going to do? Right. And so and then it's a story about about the businessman coming together and trying to establish a strong enough center core with this investment group that maybe they can get the mob to leave them alone. Well, that doesn't happen because and this is just a quick little story about this is the show vote was built by two of the giants local giants of gambling industry in Las Vegas and that was Kell households and Bill Moore. And these were giants of it and and they planned to have the old Cortez a group pay for it. Bill Moore was going to build it. He was an architect. Kell households was going to run the casino because he'd been in the casino business since 1930 and that was the start and but somehow from that that conceived moment to the moment that the the showboat opens. And I found this out by again by having to do some research is that the gambling license was in the name not of Bill Moore and Kell households or anyone else in the El Cortez group, but it was it was carried out in the name of modalits who was one of the biggest gangsters in Las Vegas. He he opened the desert in a skimmed there. He opened later the star dust and skimmed there. The startuses were all the casino were casino that movie casino happened. Right. The guy was the guy was was was was serious gangster. So the gambling license is suddenly in his name and and two other gangsters named from the desert in no mention of Kell households no mention of Bill Moore. And that just gives you an idea about what was going on behind the scenes where the mobsters would not allow even these guys which were the kind of the biggest mucks in local Las Vegas. They couldn't do what they wanted to do. They were going to come in and they were going to take the casino and they were going to do their thing. Do you think that today in the casinos that are out there that the mob has any part of it or you think that they're pretty much gone. They're gone. No, you know, they're crying here and there is their theft here and there. Yeah, of course. Right. Is there skimming of some kind that might go on in in some kind of small way. Yeah, but no, the mobsters are gone. They are they are gone. So anyway, just to finish off that a little bit is it took about four or five six years and a lot of interesting part of the story. I don't want to go into it because I think it's just be too long. I don't want to bore people. You read about it though. It is an interesting book. And about four or five six years later, they're able to free themselves from the mob stuff. They get the mob out of the showboat and they become honestly straightforward legitimate. They own the showboat. The now called the showboat enterprises. They now show that the investment group owns the showboat outright. It's honest. It's straightforward and that gives my dad an opportunity because he had a dream. He wanted to bring the showboat public. He wanted to be able to make an over the counter offer. He wanted to be able to give stock, you know, and that was literally that was just impossible. You mobbed up criminally tainted resort is not going to be get approval from the SEC and allow them to put stock and offer stock out there. Right. And even though they were about the only non-mobbed up resort casino on the business, they're still going we still can't do it. Gambling is a cashier of the business and how do you how do you you can't get the controls and all this together so that you can convince an accountant to certify the books of a casino. It can never happen. You'll never do it. Oh, my father did it. And in 1969, the SEC approved it and they allowed him to make a public offering of stock in 1969. And when that happened, it didn't happen overnight because there was still a big taint about gambling and mob and they they were still kind of scared but little bit by little bit. Public corporations started coming in. The Hilton came in about the international and their flamingo. There was a there was a public corporation called LUM. restaurants, which was, it was a restaurant a long time ago and no one remembers it now, but the loans were all over the country. And they came in and they went, I think I'm going to buy Caesar's palace. And what they do is is they are able, because they're a corporation, a public corporate, they're able, oh, you want, you want, you want this exorbitant amount of money? Okay, I'll give you double. I don't care. I'll give, they just washed them with money. Right. They couldn't turn it down. And one piece by one casino, by one casino, but suddenly, the mob is finding that they don't have any casinos left. And they're just little by little, just washed out by all this huge amounts of money. Wow, it's gone. They're gone. You know, I want to kind of veer off the subject just a little bit. I understand that you actually founded a theater in Colorado. Actually, I did. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Was that something that like dad would be definitely proud of that you use your investment power there? Yeah, he would be proud of that. He was, he was proud that I chose a different path. He was proud that I chose an artistic path. I studied, like I said, I studied theater and music theater in Loretto Heights, college in Denver, I spent 45 years performing choral music in high schools and doing musical theater. And yeah, when I finally got to the point to where I was able to open up my own theater, it's called the venue theater in Conifer, Colorado. I think you would have been very proud. Very cool. Very cool. So now you said that they get incorporated as your first book. It is. Do you think they'll be a second? What? Oh, man. You know, part of me is going, I'm so busy right now. I don't even think about it. But the other side of me is going, what are you going to do next? So I'm thinking about it. Yeah, because you've done some writing. I understand you've done some sci-fi and some screenplays as well. Yes. Yes. Boy, you do your research. Yeah, I actually, this is just a quick story is that for some reason, back when I was like 13 or 14, Dad and I got into kind of a bad place and I decided I was going to change my name away from his. And it was to hurt him. And he called me to Las Vegas and said, you know, way, no way. And I was pretty stubborn kid and I wouldn't take no for an answer. And when he figured that out, he kind of let it go. And at that point, I was writing in my early teens all the way. That's, I was writing even then. And I wrote very extensively through my 20s. And I said, okay, what, Dad, let me do this. But if I, if I ever publish a book, I'll use your name. I will call, I will, I will use my author's name Nelson H Conway. And that brought tears to his eyes. And he said, okay, now later, I changed it back. But, but it is a lot to me that I have that on the front of the book. Absolutely. I could understand that. Sure. Yeah. I know I'm sure he'd be very proud of you as well. And, you know, we really want to tell the listeners out there of that, you know, this is just a fascinating piece of history that a lot of people really don't know of. I mean, you're, you're giving really almost like an insider's point of view, even though you were a kid when a lot of this was going going down. And, you know, and you're collecting the anecdotes and all that. If I had relied just on what I remembered as a kid, this would be about 30 pages long. So yeah, that was the core. But, but then I did my research and kind of temperate it with what I remember being this. Some of it is not real. Some of the stuff you read out there is not real. Right. In fact, most of the books, I mean, they're not wrong, necessarily, that I've sent. But there are a lot of inaccuracies, a lot of legends that really aren't true things like that. Right. But, yeah. So. Okay. So if people want to find more about the book, is there any place they can go? Is there a website or a social media page or anything like that? Well, if they would, I being, being my age, and I hate to say this, but I'm a little dumb on social media. I do have a Facebook page. And it's under my name, people, please come up and see, because I do post things on the Facebook page. I am, it's a little frightening, but I'm going to get involved in Instagram and all these other things as I have to. So I'm going to do it. The book has been out for a week. So it's like, oh my goodness. Facebook and Instagram are pretty safe. X is a little sketchy. I don't know. And of course, they can look at, they can go to Amazon books and put in Las Vegas Inc. And there's the title. And there's some information. There's a biography of myself. And I'm trying to figure out how best now that this thing is just kicked off. I am trying to figure out what is the best thing? What is, what information can I provide, but either in the Amazon page, maybe, I think I'm going to put a Facebook page, Las Vegas Inc. And do that, but honestly, I haven't put it up yet. Okay. So yeah. We got time for you. So again, the book is called Vegas Inc. And we've been talking to the author, Mr. Nelson Conway. Thank you so much for this little piece of interesting history. Well, you are welcome. And I do think, just to kind of reinforce what you said, I am not that I'm, it's not that I've done anything great, but it just, I don't think I haven't seen anyone else tell this story. And there is a story, there's a big story here. Absolutely. There are other people I know that have stories that I know nothing about having to do with Las Vegas and how this interaction with, with gangsters when they came in. I do think it is kind of an untouched genre. I don't think it is an untouched genre. I don't think it is an untouched genre, I don't think it is an untouched genre. I don't think it is a nicer version of them and maybe I write a little bit about a catch up as to what is going on with the guest on that show. Definitely worth checking out. If you're into social media, Sure Pollution is the page that you want to follow on Instagram, Threads, TikTok, actually it's Sure Pollution 1 and also Sure Pollution 5000 on YouTube and you can also hear this show on podcast apps everywhere. But thank you so much for listening and I hope that you will listen again because I will be back with another exciting episode. Actually, I can tell you what next week is going to be. It is the return of my friend, the friend of the show. Absolutely. Lady named Dr. Lindsey Kalen Weisner and she has a new true crime podcast called The Husband Did It. Do you do it? Well, we'll have to find out. And you will find out when you come back next week. So until then, I say to you, Viva, let's Sure Pollution. Thanks for listening to The Shurper Screening Room. Don't forget to subscribe, write, review and share this podcast. I'm Mr. Bruce and this has been a Sure Pollution Studio's production. Viva, let's Sure Pollution.