Who Framed Richard Nixon?

[MUSIC] Welcome to Love It or Leave It Live from Hollywood. Hello to our viewers on MS now into our podcast listeners at the gym or hospital. I'm John Love It, former Obama speech writer and Hillary Clinton speech writer. In current host of this program, don't change the channel. I have the secret formula to defeat Trump, which I'll reveal at the end of this episode. But first, let's get into it. What a week. [APPLAUSE] On Wednesday, President Trump somehow stood perpendicular to himself. >> You S.I. >> Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. >> He looks like the front half of a centaur. He looks like a Marionette that God got tired of holding up. >> Defense Secretary Pete Hegsett delivered this state of the force address at Quantico on Wednesday. Let's take a look. >> We are no longer the woke department or the weak department. Simple translation of that, no fatties, no trainees, no beardos, no weirdos, no wimps, no radicals. Just warriors. >> Or as he would write it on Grindr, mask for mask. Again, they don't want trans people in sports because they're too good. If you don't want Leah Thomas in the NCAA, it seems like you should want her in the fucking Marines. And I'd also point out, we've only fought one war since you banned the Chinese and the fatties, and we're oh and one. [LAUGH] >> Continued Hegsett. >> A free press is, of course, important, but partisan activism that intentionally smears the troops. And the historic mission that they're undertaking is fundamentally anti-American. It's sick, it's a national betrayal. It's treason, actually. >> It actually isn't. Leaving aside that the coverage Hegsett that's complaining about isn't smearing the troops. But reporting on the failures of leaders who recklessly put those troops into harm's way. Even if reporters were for some reason writing, fuck the troops, boo the troops. That's not treason either. Also, you just know this is how he argued with his soon to be ex-wives during his divorces. Oh, I drink too much treason. Also, this week, President Trump hosted nearly 20 tech leaders for an AI summit at the White House, where they signed an AI safety agreement. It's effectively a peace accord, and that AI will soon tear every one of us to pieces. Here's Trump selling the deal. >> Is this a core that everybody signed isn't binding in any way? >> I think it's morally binding, yeah. >> Which is troubling, a morally binding agreement to Trump is like a no dogs allowed sign at a Los Angeles farmer's market. >> On Tuesday, Trump did in fact sign an executive order renaming artificial intelligence to superintelligence. And when a reporter asks Trump about the safety concerns raised by AI, Trump once again pivoted to the rebrand. >> The leader is standing behind you. I've had some very serious concerns about AI. Even after meeting with them today, you're still calling this a hoax. So why should the American people take your burden? >> I'm calling not a hoax, it's a very serious, that's why I changed the name. >> Okay. >> A hoax sounds like, you know, when you're using the former name, but this name is now super intelligent. That's not a hoax. >> That's some deft political slight of hand, which is impressive considering his hand looks like Shepard's pie filling. >> Too much. I'll say this for Trump, the guy stayed on message. >> Who's going to be held accountable when the AI agent committed a crime like this? >> It's not AI, it's just like that's the other thing we've changed the name officially today. >> For example, one would say, "Oh shit, a super intelligent strained all the water from Lake America." Meanwhile, at a Maha Summit on Tuesday, Health Secretary RFK Jr. said that AI can free us from medical tyranny. >> And if somebody tells you that vaccine will prevent transmission and infection, oh, you need to take a particular grandmother. AI may say it actually doesn't do that. >> Hey man, just because all your relatives died doesn't mean ours have to. >> The Health Secretary also said this, "Sam Oldman was over in our office a couple days ago." He said, "But today it would be malpractice for a doctor to make a diagnosis or to make a prescription without at least checking AI." >> And he's right, if my doctor hadn't double checked with AI, I would have never found out I was pregnant. Meanwhile, polling has consistently shown that Americans across the political divider oppose to data centers and do not want them built in their communities that, of course, didn't stop Trump from offering this. >> The data centers are, and by the way, I'm very good at real estate. Some of those buildings are absolutely beautiful. They're big and they're big, strong, powerful buildings, but they're beautiful. And they aren't greatly into a community. >> Some say data centers are like nature's ballrooms. Let's take a moment to look at a few of these data centers. Gorgeous. Move over, Florence Cathedral. Fuck, I should have had my wedding at this one. In a new variety interview, Pete Davidson said that he is lasering off most of his 200 tattoos, but not his portrait of Hillary Clinton responded and exasperated Hillary Clinton fine, but it's still over between us. And that's the only one you're keeping, asked to crestfall on Kamala Harris. The Department of Interior officially announced Bayer 89, affectionately known as Backpack, is the winner of the annual Fat Bear Week. Finally, a federal department that embraces Fatties. When, when reached for comment, Backpack the Bayer killed and ate the reporter. Fatter than ever. The Girl Scouts announced this week that its first cookies for dogs will go on sale in January. The dog cookies called Patch Pals will be blueberry muffin flavored. With a second flavor, your new girlfriend's tampon fresh from it. With a second flavor, your new girlfriend's tampon fresh from the trash available next fall. And now, a story from the week that got me a bit too mad. On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that the Trump DOJ is now reviewing whether the special counsel in charge of Nixon's Watergate prosecution committed misconduct. Finally, said the innocent Richard Nixon in heaven to his best friends up there, Harriet Tubman and Anne Frank. Congressman Riley Moore is on board, telling a summit at the Richard Nixon Foundation this week that the deep state was behind it all. Richard Nixon was absolutely cood out of office and was framed. All of this was fake. All right, let's do this. In 1973, when special prosecutor Archibald Cox learned that there was a secret recording system in the White House in which Richard Nixon had discussed the Watergate scandal, he subpoenaed those tapes. Nixon then ordered the Attorney General to fire Cox, the Attorney General refused and resigned. Then Nixon ordered the Deputy Attorney General to fire Cox. He refused and resigned. This became known as the Saturday Night Massacre. Then Nixon ordered the Solicitor General Robert Bork to fire Cox, who finally did it. We learned after Bork's death from Bork's own memoir that in exchange for firing Cox, Nixon promised that he would nominate Bork to fill the next Supreme Court vacancy, but Nixon never had the chance. Because the second special prosecutor Leon Jawarski took over for Cox and subpoenaed the tapes anyway. Are you with me? Of course you are. This is interesting. On those tapes, you hear Nixon actively participating in the cover-up and committing, encouraging and having knowledge of many crimes, including obstruction of justice, perjury, and directing the IRS to target political opponents mixed in with dire tribes, where he calls Jews abrasive, aggressive, obnoxious, and insecure, which is unacceptable unless we're saying it about ourselves. And while there is no evidence on the tapes that Nixon was aware in advance of the Watergate break-ins, there are 18.5 minutes that were erased from the recordings, 18.5 minutes of a meeting with his Chief of Staff, HR Haldeman, which took place three days after Nixon's so-called plumber snuck into the Democratic National Committee as part of an ongoing wire-tapping operation. One of many schemes that Nixon's shambolic goons were conducting or planning, which also included breaking into the Brookings Institution, which Nixon expressly ordered on tape, and which metastasized into an actual real plan proposed by Nixon advisor Chuck Colson to fire bomb the Brookings Institution, which thankfully was called off for being crazy even for us. And you don't have to take my word for it, you can learn about all of this at the Nixon Library. Haldeman was convicted of obstruction, perjury, and conspiracy among roughly 69 people, charged for their participation in the criminal enterprise around Richard Nixon, what former White House counsel John Deane called a "cancer on the presidency," and Haldeman himself said in his memoir that Nixon initiated the Watergate break-in and was part of the cover-up from the start. And look, maybe Nixon and Haldeman were fucking in those missing 18.5 minutes. I don't know, but I don't think so because that's at least 13 minutes too long. But why are people trying to rehabilitate Richard Nixon? Why is JD Van saying things like this? I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story. Like the idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy. And that's true, but the fact that Watergate wouldn't be a big deal now is a testament to how bad now is, not how not bad then was. Nixon appointees at the Justice Department resigned rather than follow Nixon's orders. The so-called "smoking gun tape" was released as ordered unanimously by the Supreme Court on August 5, 1974. Two days later, Barry Goldwater, a Republican Senator and former presidential nominee told Nixon in the Oval Office there's not more than 15 senators for you. Two days later, Nixon resigned. Republicans want to rehabilitate Nixon for the same reason they want to attack Jack Smith and the prosecution of Trump after January 6. All of reality and history must bend to excuse their corruption and cowardice and embrace of a low-life crime boss who makes Richard Nixon look like Jimmy Carter. Can you believe this Trump guy asked Jimmy Carter to Richard Nixon, Harriet Tubman and Anne Frank, hoping they'll ask him to join? But they never do. (audience cheering) And finally, a Texas man intentionally crashed his car into a Kroger's early on Sunday and told police that he did so because the store was closed and he had to go to the bathroom. Police say they'd never seen such a mess. Also, there was some damage from the car crash. All right. We have got a great show for you tonight. We'll be right back with Hollywood legend, Barry Dealer. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It Or Leave It coming up. Love It Or Leave It is brought to you by Quince when it comes to clothing and accessories. We're always on the hunt for those hero pieces that you can pull on without a second thought, the sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the T-shirt that always seems to make its way to the top of the pile. Those are the staples that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best. 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You can view the lineup and get tickets for both Love It or Leave It and CricketCon at CricketCon.com. Ticket prizes are going up on October 6, so if you've been waiting, now is the time. And we're back! [APPLAUSE] Please welcome to the show a Hollywood icon an architect of modern media, a guy who could but won't invite you on his boat. It's Barry Diller. This is true. Welcome to the show. First of all, I loved the memoir. I was really glad to have a chance to read it. I have a question for you. Why are you on this show? I don't know. How did you get here? I'm standing back there, and I'm thinking, how did I get here? Yeah, like of all it. You could be anywhere or no, you could be in San Trope. Well, I was. And you were. Of course you were. So by the way, in the book you have the press release you wrote when you left Fox and parted ways with Rupert Murdoch. And he tried to get you to edit the thing down. That is the craziest fucking press release I've ever seen in my life. It's a press release about you leaving a company, and you're like, as a man turning 50, life can be long, a lion in winter. Endlessly floored. Yes. But first of all, it was a big thing for me. I was 49 years old, and I was changing my life, stopping being a corporatist after 30 years or so. And I thought, I'm not going to just do the thing of XYZ did Y-O-Q. I thought, I'm going to tell a story. So I wrote the really long thing and published it. Cool. I agree. Now, you talk about in the book, relying on data over-- about the problem when people rely on data over instinct and making creative decisions. That can be a route to failure. Netflix, Amazon. These are data-driven institutions. Not only do they collect more information that was ever collected before, it also guides the way they decide what to make, what not to make actors to hire. Are they wrong? It seems to be working for them. Well, you know, working-- I would argue, actually, that the quality of content has steadily gone downhill. Now, I'm not saying it's gone downhill because it's a bunch of data scientists playing around. But it's remarkable how little really good work-- most work today, most of the series work-- Netflix work, et cetera, I'm not damning them. But most of the work today is derivative. And it's like you saw it last year. It's like a little maybe polished up. But it's-- look, all of us, I don't know, if you saw Breaking Bad or Friday Night lights or I could riff on on all of these great shows, I haven't seen one in a really long time. So I would say that I agree that there is a quantity, not quality problem, right? Like, the odds that if you pick a show at random, it will be great are quite low. But then I think there's a show like Puribus. There's a show like-- Yeah, there's some good stuff. But the general quality, while the production quality is high, the actual writing is shoddy, mostly. Yeah. A lot of you talk about visiting the set of Popeye. And obviously, I don't think-- God, you did read the book. I did read the book. And look, I don't think that production was well-served by cocaine. However, it's now almost this sort of artifact of a time when I'm sorry. There are shots in that movie that could only exist because a bunch of people were on cocaine. They play with, like, I'm remembering that there's a moment in that movie, I believe, where Bluto sees red. Is it that you actually pay attention to the film Popeye? Yes, of course. It's, I wouldn't say it's Altman's one of his better works, but I think it's worth watching. But there's a moment in that movie where a character sees red. And the way that character sees red is they cut. And then everyone is just in red clothes. That is cocaine. Oh, yes. That's a beautiful thing. There is not a shot in that film, really. That is a film utterly fueled by coke. So is it an amazing though that now, after cocaine kind of went down in popularity, it now seems to be raging back? I'm really surprised by that. Yes, also, look, technology has advanced. And really, Adderall is the thinking man's cocaine at this point. I someone who takes it all the time, but medically-- This morning. Yeah, of course, that we can't take it in the afternoon. But the reason I ask that is because there's a way in which Hollywood has become much more corporate and much more systematized, less experimental. But is there a happy medium between the Coke-fueled Popeye days, the head of Gulf West, or hiding in his office? Because he thinks he's going to get killed by gangsters. And what we have now-- Like, is there a medium ground-- Can you give me the loss of personality, the loss of exhibitionism? Well, the loss of characters. And that these were companies driven by singular egos, which I think sometimes leads to surprising choices that a corporation would make. Well, totally true. The difference is it used to be that Hollywood, so to speak. There were five or six companies that controlled it. And all they did is make movies and television. They didn't sell books. They didn't sell iPhones. They didn't do all sorts of other things. They just did that. And because they did that in their own somewhat isolation, they were able to be kind of crazy. But now, when the movie television making part is 87 steps down on the corporate ladder, what happens is that, like anything, it gets ossified by its degradation from. someone who's a principal. - There's another part of this that I don't had a how to square with that, because at the same time there are like say Netflix, right? Amazon is a complicated example, Apple's complicated, but Netflix, they exist to make shows and get people to subscribe to watch what they make. - That's what they do. - And there's a lot of people-- - But the thing is the difference with them is they did come to it from, and it doesn't mean it's dishonorable, but they came to it totally from technology. So because it's tech led and tech is infused in every part of it, while they've hired people who come from the creative world, their beating heart is still a tech heart. - But there's a way in which I feel like there's a kind of collective convention, common sense with whatever, conventional wisdom, that these streamers have somehow kind of undermined what Hollywood does. And yet, you know, you talk about like, oh, it's a good year for the box office, it's back to where it was in 2022 or something, and it's-- - That's just an accident. - Right, well, and of course, but it goes from, let's say, nine billion to 10 billion. And then you look at what these companies are spending on production, and it dwarfs that, right? Like the total domestic box office is less than, let's say, a Netflix in an Amazon will spend, or an Apple will spend on content, which seems to me, whatever the odds of them making something great, it is good that they are investing so much in making. - The thing, you know, one of the things that today, particularly, and I think tomorrow, as things will become less expensive to make, is it isn't that you're spending six, I'm just talking about television, forget movies, 'cause movies can be 100, 200, 300, but that you're spending six, eight, 10 million dollars an hour for production. And the production, as I say, they look great. They're going all over the world. It's shocking how many cities a series will go to to tell it's kind of dumbass story. (audience laughs) And so the money is there. The money is on the screen, but the craft has deteriorated. - Do you see anybody that's finding a way back to that craft that sees an opening to make better things, or is it just too hard? - Well, no, I don't think it's too hard. I just think it's in the atmospheric. What's happened again is that the whole development cycle, the process of starting with an idea, writing a script, rewriting it endlessly. I said that that kind of linear process is just now very submerged. It's submerged too. We got to get x, y, and z on the screen in the next 48 hours. - Well, and that, because it's such a noisy environment, like you could, when there were three networks or four networks, you could guarantee that you have some amount of attention on what you were doing, a flop. - You had something, you had something more important, which is at any one time, this is my ancient history, you had really a hundred million people all watching a relatively little screen. And so you had the ability, like most famously, let's call it Roots, which was this classic mini series in the late '70s, that for 11 nights straight, two hours a night, 65 million people, everybody watched and so four months, it was in the culture. We've, this is hard to do now. Hey, remember when you threw up lobster biscon, you've seen Laurent? - I can actually remember every step. - So, how happy I was. - What happened in the, like, what happened right after? Is your, your state, 'cause the story just, you just mentioned an impasse, and it's like, well, I feel like that's a big event for, at least for you, maybe also for him. - Oh, I don't think it was, I think, I mean, it was horrified. He had a white suit. It really was lobster bisc. So, you know, were you sick? - What happened, it is, you said, how you have nangled onto this little Eve story. - Well, you said it in there, well, you sort of like, and then I threw up on you saying, Laurent, it's like, why? - I didn't say it, then I was in France, in Northern France, like, what was the city? You'll know it, probably, but I forgot. And my wife and I went to this restaurant, and I really didn't like France, 'cause my French is terrible, and my wife speaks 100 languages, and so is very fluid with glam life. And so I ordered this lobster soup, and I was really unhappy to be there. That was really the truth, but I wasn't ill, I was just unhappy to be there, and then this very sophisticated group walks in, and I stood up, and it was my anger that threw up on Eve's and Laurent. (audience laughs) - Wow, I didn't know about that. I didn't know that that could happen. Speaking of fluid, you're married to a woman, but you've also been attracted to men. That's interesting, was that-- - I thought that was interesting. I mean, the first time I was interested-- - More than interesting. - Very interesting, extremely interesting. - Well, we've done interesting. - We've done interesting, so you talk about this, actually, this was one of the first excerpts in the book, and I remember reading and thinking, wow, there have been so many assumptions about you for such a long time. In fact, there were so many assumptions about you and your relationship that there was an example of it that was seen as sort of a reminiscent of your relationship on sex in the city, in which a gay man has a lavender marriage to a woman that is based in friendship, it was implied that it was based on you, but meanwhile, in the book, you're like, excuse me, we were not just friends, how dare you, we had a lot of sex. - I would not say how dare you, what, that's aggressive about you, but we were in love with each other in every possible way. And no, there was no performative aspect. - Was that-- - You're saying that's not doable? - No, I'm not, absolutely not. Zero questioning of, in fact, the reason I bring it up is because I was somebody that was exclusively gay, I'm gay, I'm gay. (audience laughs) Stop it. - There, there you have suffered. - And then, after 40, I meet someone who is trans and almost suddenly I discover that, oh, I didn't know my sexuality as well as I thought I did, and what I felt a kinship to your story is, I don't really need to figure it out because I love this person and the rest is immaterial who cares what the description of it is, this works. And I wonder if that's changed how you think about sexual orientation as someone for whom the idea of being gay was the biggest thing that scared you for most of your young life. - Well, I don't, you know, at this point, the aged point, I really do think it is much more fluid than that, if you allow it to be fluid. I think today, the culture goes very much against that. Actually, people do not like the idea of bisexuality. They either suspect it, or in some way as their self-identification makes them, I think it's somehow wrong. And I think that's, first of all, not valid. And I understand it 'cause it's so prevalent, but it would be better, the European attitudes towards this, this is really an American attitude. The European attitude is just so much different. Sexuality is really not that much discussed, not that much slotted. There are endless, endless, endless examples of men marrying women, women marrying men who also like men, and like women, and back and forth, and nobody talks about it. They just do it. - The French, and yet, it made you sick, you're stomach. (audience laughing) - Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of "Love It Or Leave It" coming up. - "Love It Or Leave It" is brought to you by Bombas. 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But then you also talk about being a perfectionist around advertising and marketing and keeping people their late until it was good and really driving people, hammering people. - Yeah, we tried hard. - Yeah, you tried hard. And I always find, I struggle with people who are working really hard fighting to get something from 97% to 100% may not always be worth the effort. And then you think about the people like the sort of the famous success stories where like no, everything has to be 100%. But in real life, sometimes you gotta move on and want something's good enough because you don't want people to be discouraged, you want to do more work. How do you think about the balance between something having to be perfect and also to- - First of all, but the perfect is rare. And perfect is a surprise. - How about excellence? - Usually, no. Usually, usually, whatever is really good to some degree, degrades in the process, to some degree, just process makes that happen. Rarely and occasionally, that process reverses itself and makes it come out great. But that's rare. I mean, you just look at all the things that you've really, truly loved, that you've seen, television movies, whatever. You can probably list them. That's what, 1%. Well, that's okay. But that ain't perfect. - But what I'm getting at more is how do you decide? How have you decided when- - When to give up? - Yes. Yeah, when do you just say, "Oh, fuck it, release it." Or that adds good enough. We're gonna come back to- - Oh, no, no, no, no. - Adds have to be good. - You have to think you do not compromise. - Okay. - Because you can, just by denial, constant denial, until you say, "Oh, that's really good." You can get that right. But with a movie or a television show, there's a point you're making a movie at the really editing stage, let's say, or the preview and then re-editing a reshooting stage. Where you say, "You know, I've done enough." And it's as good, it's probably, could I spend another x, y, z time, amount of money, probably, but it really wouldn't do much good. And then you, get over it. - Do you get over it? - Of sure. So you- - Except when I see Greece. - Well, either you think you're, what are you not over about Greece? I think Greece is good. We don't like Greece yet. You talk about Greece, I know you're surprised it was successful, but people love Greece. - Oh, everyone loves Greece. - But you still think it's bad? - All I see in Greece is grass that was supposed to be green, that was brown. (audience laughing) All I see is a dance between John and Olivia twirling around where the awkwardness is so bad that it makes me sick. - It's campy. It's campy, isn't it just camp? Can we just call it camp at this point? - It is that, and it was that to everyone else. I was shocked. - You thought you were making a- - No, we were trying to make a good movie. And when I saw it with audiences, and they loved every second of it, I thought, well, there you go. - Speaking of John Travolta, there's a moment in where you're talking about how you were trying to harang him into being in American jigsaw. - Yes, yes, yes. - And he doesn't want to do it, and he has all these, what you think are excuses about loss and whatever, and he just won't do it, and he just won't do it. And one of the things you mention is that you thought he might be worried about the subtext in the movie or the homosexual themes in the movie, and also in subtext in the book, you were a person who was afraid of being outed. There have long been rumors that John Travolta, somebody who's been afraid of being outed, but you don't. Was there a part of you that thought, oh, he's afraid that people are gonna think he's gay, and whether he is or he's not, it was a big enough worry, a bigger worry for him than for Richard Geer. - Yes, probably true. I don't, you know, I was there, but, and I know a lot about that, but I think he had a, I really do think, genuinely, John, was at the very difficult time, and I think that he, for a myriad of reasons, he didn't want to do it. - So you used to run Paramount? - Yes. - It's been in the news lately. - Yeah. - Any advice for David Ellison? (laughing) - Be presumptuous. I think the sad thing is, I mean, it's now happened to me twice. I also ran 20th Century Fox, a wonderful, storied movie company. It was bought by Disney, and it's now disappeared. There is no such thing as Fox, it's gone. I mean, it's a relic of history, and now Paramount and Warner's, and in a few years, probably Paramount will be gone. And so I see that contraction, and it just makes me sad. - Is there any hope that there's different progatives in a deal like this, in part, because while there's, maybe there's incentives for scale to combine things at the top, right? There's still an HBO, - I don't believe in scale. - I know you don't believe in scale. I read the book. (audience laughing) - Really, better than me. - But HBO still has to have HBO Max, and the studio has to support that. Paramount still needs to support its service. Those services must remain separate. - No. - Well, they would have to, they'd lose a lot of money to have people that were subscribed to both suddenly, - But they'll blend. Over time, they'll absolutely blend together. - So you don't think there's a hope that there's a business incentive for both of those studios to keep running and make even more things. - Insane. - Insane. - It's a whole possible. - Impossible. - Impossible. Impossible. - I think. - That's a bummer. - Yeah, I think it's, I think the contraction, all in the pursuit of scale. I think it's, I think it's unfortunate, but you know, what are you gonna do? I have not been able to, I've been part of consolidation in my life in different areas. It is the way of things to consolidate. But I think it's, I think it's progress leaves a lot, it leaves a lot squeezed out of the culture. - You talk about this about sort of people over valuing scale, apart from a sort of ego driven, people just want to control more and kind of have more under their roof. But, you know, there's business reasons, right? That they would say, "Oh, well, we can, "you know, these are two companies "that both have HR departments "and both have legal departments "and both have buildings with people in them "that cost money and we can save that money "and then maybe put more money on the screen." - Yeah, if you take a building down, that's fine, who cares about the building? But there, until we are in the simulation, there are people in the building. And- - There are people in the building. - And, and because there are people in the building, when they go, it's not that they will not go to another building, they will. But the building they were in, which had its culture and its history, and its ethic is gone. And that, that's a loss. So- - That's so sad. - It is a little sad. It is sad. Well, I mean, you know, in this place- - Progress. - It's well, you know, the businesses, you were at Paramount at this golden age of, what people consider now a golden age of film of 1970s, late mid-70s to early '80s, right? - Yes. - Where incredible films. - Yes, yes, yes. - And then people in the '90s were like, "Man, you had it so good at Paramount in the 1970s, "that's when you made real art." And now today, people like, boy, in the '90s, they knew how to make movies, you know? And I'm sure a few years from now, people will say, "Man, they didn't know how good they had it in the 2020s." No, you think, "No." That's, I'm being too optimistic. - No chance. - Pluribus is good. You see, Severance? Severance is good? - I never got Severance, but that's just me. I mean, it's not to be taken by any, like I like something and you didn't like something. Pluribus is very good work. It's very interesting work. - Hey, one thing in the book is, there's always these battles between lost and Jews in Hollywood. This is what I really wanted to ask you about, which is, you know, you talk about being at William Morris as a Vatican for Jews early in your career. MGM is founded over a hundred years ago. You go to the trades today and what do you see? You see, Arya Manual insulting you to Jewish Titans going back and forth, the same as it's been for a hundred years. What is it about Jews? - What about these Jews? - Why are we, why, what is it about Jewish people in this business? I don't give the conspiracy nuts anywhere to get purchased, but you know, we've been running this town for a hundred years. - Because first of all, by the way, Jews no longer run it. So let's get that clear. - Which was a huge mistake. - So they don't run it any longer. And that, You know, there's a wonderful book called An Empire of Their Own, Benil Gable Road, about actually, mostly, well, there, almost all Eastern European Jews, who were first generation. They were all born in Europe. They came over in the late 19th century and in the early 20th century, they invented the movie business and they, every one of them was Jewish. There were five of them and every studio is one of their creations. So why did they do it? Is it out of their historical empathy because of circumstances, et cetera, tied to immigrant ambition? But it's certainly interesting. We still, I mean, we don't run the whole town, but we still got some sway here. And I think we love, I mean, some rich people at these temples. There's a lot of money and a lot of money in Yom Kippur these days. Yeah, well, not really from the entertainment business. I mean, if you look at the leaders of the major institutions today. Now, you've been, you talk a lot about being in the right place at the right time, right now, whether it's television and TV movies or the film business, Fox, and then the internet, what's the right place at this time? Like, where do you look around and say, you know what, there are opportunities here. There's whether it's the hedge against AI or places where the market isn't serving the audience. Where do you look? You're talking about purely an entertainment. Entertainment or beyond. What are you looking around and say, oh, there's a business here that people aren't seeing, or there's a market here that isn't being reached. We're in a period. We're just beginning where there's so much that I would utter the word AI or super intelligence, or talk about it as a total bore, but sorry, but we're without question entering a period of extraordinary change to this utterly unpredictable around every corner. There will be an opportunity. I don't know what it is, but I promise you every corner will be more opportunity than ever conceivable simply because this kind of radical change, this kind of creative destruction that's going to go on over the next, probably let's be gone now. I think it'll gather real steam in a couple of years. And for certainly the next period, five, seven, ten years, oh my God, to be biting at that with youth and energy and intellect is going to be a thrill. Well, that's exciting. Wish I had some of those. It seemed very exciting. Well, I know. It's the way artificial intelligence, you see Bill Gates talk about it and he's like, yep, everything. It's going to be a huge problem. Did you read his essay? Yeah. Because I like Bill Gates very much. Are you worried about it in the way that he wrote? I thought what he wrote. I thought it is the most balanced. It is the most thoughtful. It has the best plan for both getting the good out of it and protecting it. And I thought it is, I wanted to send it. We have about 95,000 employees and companies I'm engaged with. And I wanted to send it to every employee. And so, to the senior executives of three companies, I said, wouldn't it be great? And they said, you can't do that. It will scare them all. They will be petrified of what is going to happen to them. You just can't do that and unsell their lives. I said, their lives should be unsettled. And I kind of lost the argument, but I think everybody should read it. Well, I feel like they are going to get the message now. You mean from this? Yeah. Listen, I know it looks like it is not a lot, but people do. Get more audience. It is a surprisingly popular show, Barry Diller. All right. Barry, you pioneered a new era of cinema, the era that was by creating the ABC movie of the Week, which premiered in 1969 and ran for six seasons. And every single movie had a more deranged 70s plot entitled in the last. In fact, the only thing crazier than the ABC movie of the Week is every single week in the news today, which is why we are going to play a game called Movie of the Week or News of the Bleak from the twisted mind of Barry Diller. You know, you asked me, how did I get here? Now it's, how do I get out? How do you get out? All right. Well, what are you? Go ahead. All right. Here we go. Just have to decide, is this a plot line from one of your movies of the week or something that happened in the news recently? First up, a flight carrying a group of blind professionals. Seven in darkness. Yep. It was about. This was the first movie. This was about seven people in a blind movie. These are movies that should be remade right fucking out. Seven blind people have to get off a mountain from a plane crash. That's fantastic. Okay. A giant and extremely poisonous, gobboon, viper, terrorizes Orange County, only for it to be revealed that the snake was a hoax. I know. That's a headline. That was a headline. That was a movie. You're right. You thought it was a movie or you thought it was the headline? No. It wasn't a movie. Yes, it was not a movie. Correct. Correct. Next up, that was from the news this week. Two men win a grim trophy, winners in a surreal grave digging contest. The headline? Correct. You're three for three? You're crushing it. Yeah. Yeah. Go on. Four elderly former Texas Rangers take down a small town crime boss. I'm sure that's a movie. It was, but the over the hell gang. Oh god. But we made that move. You did make that move. It's one of my favorite titles over the hill. Over the hell gang is great. And again, that is a remake. Dust these things off the shelf. They made space cowboys. Member space cowboys. This is like a space cowboy on earth. All right. All right. A heart surgeon discovers a plan to traffic human organs to an aging mogul trying to live forever. I don't know. It's a movie. It was called the man who wanted to live forever. Hey, you're an aging mogul. Do you want to live forever? I mean, do I what I like to? You have to give me the definition of forever. And if I could go backwards in time like Benjamin Button. Oh, no. There's no backwards. We're only moving forward. There's space time. Then you're out. That's it. No. Okay. Let's see. Let's go on for a while. For a while. Yeah. How you feeling? Excellent. You're still like kind of like doing deals. I'm still engaged, which is what I want to be. I think that that for me, it's not for everybody, obviously, because some people I can want to go smell roses. And I still get to do those while I'm doing things that are active and engaging. The distraught widow of a tech mogul falls under the sway of a deceptive jiggle, oh, that's a movie. It's a headline. What a headline. The widow of a man who invented the online game Roblox, sued a male escort claiming he manipulated her grief to the tune of $6 million. Oh, I just read that. Yes. Yes. Real, but also could have been a movie. It could have been one of the movies. Let's see. Let's do one more. Yeah. Please. A psychologist interviews a tech expert who-- Because I've going downhill. Well, you're doing great. No, my last few have not been good. But go on. That's just the-- The chief, the effort to achieve. Do one. I'm driving. I'm doing one more Barry Diller. Stop yelling at me. A psychologist interviews a tech expert who claims he has spoken to his deceased daughter. I don't care. It's a movie, "Daughter of the Mind." I don't-- "Daughter of the Mind," I've never even heard of. Review. It's-- you made that movie. Oh. And people loved it. Yeah. All right. All right. Do you remember saying school for girls? I remember the title, yes. Uh. That's not true. We're finished. I am. Okay, good. Barry Diller, everybody. [APPLAUSE] Hey. Don't go anywhere. "Love It or Leave It" is brought to you by Sundays. We are what we eat. So our our dogs, along healthy active life, start to clean real food nutrition every day. That's why Sundays for dogs is different. It's human grade, real food. Sundays recipes contain 80% plus all natural meat, roughly twice the meat content of some leading frozen brands, plus nutrient-rich ingredients like kale, ginger, blueberries, and gently air-dried rather than exposed to high heat. No fillers. No sense that I got it. It was no chemicals. It was just simple, complete nutrition. It doesn't look or smell like dog food. It looks like high quality, jerky. And it's vet-bounded and vet-formulated created by Dr. Tory Waxman to meet her high standards as both a vet and a dog parent. And the best part, it's ever less no fridge, no freezer, no prep, no mess. Just scoop and serve. You get the quality of a home-cooked meal and the ease of kibble, huge fan of air-dried dog food. It's the best balance. You don't have to deal with the refrigerating and the defrosting of frozen foods. It's not messy. You just scoop it, but it's better than the kibble. I highly recommend that. And you know, the dogs, the dogs like it, but it definitely is, I think, healthier since we switched away from kibble, and I do think it's made a difference. Just more reliable. You know, she just feels better. I think she just has had less issues. So make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to sundaysredogs.com/loveit and get 50% off your first order, or you can use code, love it at checkout. That's 50% off your first order at sundaysredogs.com/loveit. Sundaysredogs.com/loveit or use code, love it at checkout. And we're back. Hey. Please welcome the show. The human escape room, Jared Goldstein. Yes. Hi. - So, good to see you. - Hi, good to see you. - So you have a new-- new web series out called Escape Room. Do you like escape rooms? - I don't. - Okay. - And that's why I wrote a lot about it. - I like that. - Yeah. - You don't like them? - No, I love that your first guest is a billionaire media mogul, and then your second guest is like, watch my web series. (laughing) - We contain multitudes. - That's diversity. - That is diversity. - That's beautiful. - You based a series on a real job you had. - Yeah, yeah, used to set up and operate escape rooms on the road. Like my touring college agent would sometimes send me the schools to do stand up, and sometimes send me to set up and operate escape rooms. - Boy, that's that agent's like, that's right on the edge of not being the business, I think. - Yeah, but here's the thing. My big plan was this is the business, because it's gonna pay for me to get on the road, and I just have to set up an operating escape room one night, and I can spread the flights out. Book shows, I'll do a college in Michigan, then I before I'll do a club in Detroit, being bang boom, I'm a touring road comedian, probably three years in. - Did it work? - It really did. - Oh yeah. - It really did. - And you're in dang. - I'm in dang. - Dang. - Dang. - On Netflix. - Yeah, yeah. - Show's about a gay Asian guy living in New York. - Yes. - It felt really pointed that the scripts were being emailed to me. I was like, is this about me? Are you making fun of me? - It's kind of the thing where you be insulted and be asked and to not be asked. - Yeah, all right. - Yeah, I know, I'm only insulted flatter to be asked, and it was the coolest thing ever. - Do you enjoy recording your lines alone in a quiet booth? - I did. I did. It's, have you done voiceover before? - No. - You haven't. - No. - You should do it. - No. - You have a great voice. - I have a great voice. I've got, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's cool. - It's different. I'm in podcasting. It's gotta be something. - Yeah, there you go. - You know? - Yeah, you do add copy. - Yeah, that's right. How are the table reads? - They were great. They were so great. 'Cause it's so hard to come by a job in this town, and it's nice to be asked to go to a building, to go to tipmouse, to be invited to tipmouse for an hour, to sit down with a bunch of actors who you really respect and admire, and some of them are on Zoom, and they're still making you laugh, and it was so cool. It was so fun. - I don't think she'd be allowed to be on Zoom. I think she had to come in person. - Edie Patterson made it work. Every line she had, we're screaming. - That's cool. - Yeah, it was cool. And this doesn't work over Zoom. This is what I'm doing. - What you're doing? - Did you do a lot of Zoom over the pandemic? - Yeah, we did a lot of episodes. - Yeah, it worked. - Do you remember when I guest hosted when you were on Survivor? - Yep, and actually by the time you guest hosted, I was already out. (audience laughing) And just in a rinky dink hotel in Fiji, trying to tell myself that it's cool. - Yeah. It's like I locked you in the dressing room so I could go on and-- - Yeah. - Yeah. Basically, Survivor was a negative escape room in which I was desperately trying to stay in those game room and instead they were like, we don't, you're out. - You have to leave. - You have to leave. - You were the first eliminated, yeah? - Did you go in feeling like you were gonna win and last a long time and-- - I thought it was either first out or out to the end. - Wow. - I really did. - Okay, cool. - So you know yourself? - Yeah. - That's good. - Yeah, no, I also do think on the path that I was on, it was actually a good, me being laid to the fucking ground was good. It was good. It was a nice, it was a nice capsule. 'Cause basically, you know, I'd blown up my life, you know, I had a long-term relationship. That got blown up. I turned 40, that was a lot. And I think I decided to do my midlife crisis in one episode of Survivor. And it has a nice beginning in middle and end and then I came back to America and I was like, that's an up for that. And then, now forward. - That's fantastic. - Yeah, but I still wanna do, again. - You probably, you could go back on, right? - Yeah. I see that for you. - Hey, Jared, there's too much free-floating discourse right now, so we need your help to clear the docket into game. We're calling Gay for the Algorithm. Here's how it works. I'm gonna ask you a question about a little piece of current pop culture and the conversation of the debate and you will make a definitive ruling so that I never have to think about it again. You will only have 15 seconds. We're just gonna fly through a bunch of 'em. - Okay, great. - Okay, but also, there's no rules and we wanna talk about it more, are we can? First up, can you bring an ice coffee to a job interview? - I have that bag. Oh, I have that bag and I've never seen anyone with it and when I saw this headline, that's all I could think. I have that bag. It's tell far, it's beautiful. - Ask to the question. I think it's case by case. I think you can bring an ice coffee to an interview. I cannot. - Interesting. - Yeah, I think like you are a serious person so you can have a little fun with it. You can walk in with an ice coffee. I think if I walk in with an ice coffee, I'm probably two minutes late. I don't have any experience. I'm telling them that in the interview and I'm shaking a coffee. It's too much. But also, my real thought about this is if you have a strong opinion about the answer, you're the problem in either way. - No, that's good. - Just don't have a strong opinion. Yeah, my view, which I discussed on the show Tuesday at the end of the show was only to say, I would bring an ice coffee to a job interview. It would be a red flag. Don't hire me. You know what I mean? It would be like, why am I bringing this ice coffee? Well, because I do the things I want to do regardless of how it looks. That makes me a frustrating colleague. - Sure. Next up, is it-- - Or a chill colleague. - Or a chill. Would you guys say I'm frustrating or chill? Yep. Hey, people are saying Taylor Swift's new songs are bad and that means that the Swifties are admitting that happiness is not good for her. What are you feeling about the Swifties being upset about the new songs? I don't know. I actually, I saw a video today that it feels like, it feels like an interesting, it feels interesting and it feels like a relief to see that the Swifties are having, they're like defecting, you know? Like, that's nice. Have a little like a mystery. The Swifties have a mystique now that they are defecting. And, you know, it's like, we don't necessarily know what they're gonna like, you know? - That's interesting. It's also sort of like-- - They have like, they have autonomy. Like, what, you know, she's happier, it seems. And maybe she has to learn, maybe a lot of her music has been about being unhappy and now she has to find the paths to great art by being happy. And some people say, oh, if I took, people are artists that say, if I take an antidepressant, it'll destroy the part of me that makes beautiful art. But it's like, but then you're sad, you know? And now, you know, if you're famous for writing albums about breakups and now you're in a happy marriage, you have to find a new access point for art. I think happy people can make nice art, although not the first line of that book, Anna Karenina would say, no, because happy is boring. - You know, I don't really know who Anna Karenina is. - She's a Russian lady. - I know it, yeah. - Okay. - That's all I know. - Is it embarrassing to admit you haven't read a book? - I just, as someone who just admitted that I don't fully know who Anna Karenina is, there's a big space between never read a book. - Oh, never read a book. Oh, yeah, sure. - You gotta have at least fake it. - Alex has Alex Earl never read a book. - She said in an interview that she's never read a book. I think that's the can't be true. - Yeah. - I just don't believe that. I just don't understand how you can get all the way to where she is without reading a book. It's a very funny thing to say. I've never read a book, maybe Dr. Seuss, but then it's like, wait, what happened? It's almost hard to not have read a book even by accident. - Yeah. I mean, we are like doomed. I mean, I've read a book, but like because of GPS, don't ask me how I got here or how to get home. - I truly don't know. - Should limited series have to return their Emmys if they come back for a second season? Because the Beast and Me with Matthew Reese won two Emmys for their limited series only for Netflix to immediately order a second season. They're by making it unlimited. (laughing) - No, I think awards should be taken less seriously, so give them all the awards and then take them all back and then put them in the toilet and then hand them back to him and who cares? - Yeah. You shouldn't worry about things like external validation like awards. - That being said, I am on a TV show next year and if anyone wants to give me an award for that, I will take it. - With a TV show. - I'll take it. It doesn't have a name yet. - Oh. - Yeah, it'll be on Apple. It's a comedy. - You're an Apple comedy that doesn't have a name yet? - Yeah. - Is that cool? - That's exciting. - I know. - I'm excited. - Yeah. - Ah, those escape rooms you did on the road were worth it. - It all led here. - Party escape room, so watch that. (laughing) - We'll be right back. (laughing) (upbeat music) - And we're back. (cheering) Now it is time for that enduring podcast tradition. Let's spin the rant wheel. Jared, we each get 60 seconds on the clock to letter rip about something that's got us good and steamed. Let's roll that beautiful wheel. (upbeat music) It is landed on Pundit because I think that was supposed to be for Barry Diller. (laughing) Okay, I have a rant about Barry Diller and he's not here to defend himself and sure I'm a little scared 'cause he's a billionaire but I'm gonna do it anyway. I really enjoyed that audio book. It was a beautiful performance. A lot of, it was subdued, but a lot of paythos. However, there was one thing that caught me by surprise and I found shocking. You know the kind of movie that's about the true story of a real person. It goes through their whole life story. What are those movies called? Wait, what'd you say? Biopic. What did that, what else did somebody say? This did it. Biopic. You said biopic. What the fuck is biopic? It's not biopic. Well, here's the thing, I assume that it is wrong. However, Barry Diller, who knows more about the business than any of us will, says biopic in his reading. But I think you are both wrong. It is of course biopic. [BLANK_AUDIO] biographical picture. It's not biopic because that's using the bi part as if that's the it's not biopic. It's a biopic. So what the fuck are we doing here? Get Barry Diller back here. I agree. I think biopic was like invented like nine months ago and people went crazy on it. They're loving it. No, I've never I've never heard it until like a year ago. I don't like that and I don't like when people say something is aesthetic. I don't get that either. That's rant number two. Sixty more seconds. Sixty more seconds. Oh, that's been it again. And it's landed on Jared, what'd you like to rant about? Stop saying color way like you've always been saying color way. What is don't you do that? Don't don't do that. You're lying to me and you're a part of a conspiracy and I look I get it. You want to feel included. You want to feel a part of something and you want to feel you want to feel fabulous. You want to feel elevated and color way saying color way is one way to do that is one color way to do that but just do me a favor and if you're going to say color way to me just also with your hands hold up the number of times you've said it and I guarantee you you're only going to need one hand. See this this color way is white, black and brown or you know this color that's not really color way but who knows what is color way anyway. So I have nine more seconds so I'm still upset about color way. Don't say color way just say color. Why are we adding words? We should be shortening words. Thank you. I really agree on this thing about color way because it's a term of art from people that make things that come in different colors and you're not a person that makes things in different colors. You're a person that buys things. Color way is an interior industry term to describe because I get why it is a value right because sometimes like you know there'll be a shirt that comes in blue and red and a shirt that comes in blue and green and it's like well they're two different colors. We'll be right back. And we're back. We end each episode of Love and Relieved It by reading a list my producers have assembled of all the things I did wrong and should regret from this show. One of them one of the things I regret is not having enough of a rapport with Barry Diller to force him to stay. If you Jared regret anything from this evening feel free to share during this segment. Okay, but let's see what we've got. I do not have the formula to defeat Trump. I lied. I joked about people who break the rules and bring their dogs to the farmer's market. I bring my dog to all the places where dogs shouldn't be. I do. I'm sorry. I don't think the rules apply to my dog. Let's see. Do any of the audience members regret coming here today? Yeah. You're here all the time. You've never missed one. Bob, Betsy. All right. Let's see. I suggested that Richard Nixon is best friends with Anne Frank and Harriet Tubman in heaven. I don't regret that. I said I said in response to Barry Diller explaining a press release. I asked about cool. Let's see. I interrupted a thoughtful conversation about the state of Hollywood to ask about when Barry threw up on my cell. Yes, but I'm glad I did. Yeah, a little energy. I use the transition speaking of fluid to go from barf to sexuality. Yes. Don't regret it. I could for you. I love myself. I love myself in with Jews running Hollywood a bit of a stretch. Oh, they wrote these down and hand them to you. Oh, my God. Okay. Me learning a game by the end of it. And that's our show. Thank you so much. The Barry Diller and Jared Goldstein. There are 32 days until the mid-Journey Valley back next week with Cal Penn, former congressman Adam Kinziger, and YouTuber Michelle Carey. Love it or leave it is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante, and me John Love at our production team includes Halley Heifer, Sarah Lazarus, Roman Borcellino, Peter Miller, David Toll's Claudia Shang, Jay Banks for Uel Calderone, Gavin Purcell, and Matt DeGrove. And our production staff is proudly unionized with the writer's Guild of America East.