White Guilt: Shelby and Eli Steele

white guilt is basically a redemptive guilt. It is white saying we need a way out from under this accusation that we're less than moral because we're white. I'd grown up in the days of unquestioned segregation and whites actually went to that church many whites. They made an effort to be conspicuously innocent. They'd go home after their services were over, but that gave them a power, a moral power. Hello, this is Victor Davis Hanson for our weekly podcast, Victor Davis Hanson, his own words. I'm a solo today as we do with our interviews. Jack will be with us next time along with Sammy. It's a big treat to have not just two great scholars but friends of mine that we've known a long time and we're going to have Eli Steele who has just done a documentary white guilt built on his father's books and articles and lectures who has really identified this phenomenon that is central to racial relations for over 20 years and Eli who's a distinguished filmmaker has put it to film and it comes out tomorrow Eli or to yesterday. Yes, yesterday. It's out now and before we start where would people best able to download it or purchase it? The best place is the white guilt. The film's name is white guilt and you might see it as Shelby Steele's white guilt, a film by Eli Steele. In any case, I had a question to both of you, but white guilt is a holistic idea. It even transcends the black white dichotomy as I understand it. In other words, Shelby and I used to speak a lot at Hoover Functions. I think Shelby was the first person that I heard to talk about this dichotomy that became fashionable, the oppressed victimized versus the oppressor victimizers, that it was really a white non-white binary once and it really became prominent during the Obama. So it even transcended the black white historical challenges to the point where anybody who is not white has grievances regardless of their class, regardless of their financial situation, regardless of their historical background, regardless of whether their tribal affiliations actually can be called victimized by white. And all white people during white guilt, even though all do not suffer it, but in the views of the victimized, they all should suffer it. guilt for the act of being white, even though we're in a, I'm speaking from your former state, California, your state now, Eli, that we've never had slavery here. Most people who are African American were never slaves, and 45% of the state now was either not born in the United States or their children was not born, but somebody's got to feel guilty about this. And what's the direct, we get right to the quick, what's the direct harm? What do you see is that what it's done, how does it work the society at large? That's not my father has defined it like guilt is not a person or guilt. And a lot of people, even on the left, she even conservative, they have no guilt. I never own slave. I never segregated anybody. She used to say, you know, I should immigrated here from Italy or France. And, you know, after I have no guilt, that's not right guilt. Missed understanding is completely, completely right guilt is collective guilt. That's where you have white in front of guilt. There is the collective condemnation of white people as racial. It's ready for the left to gain enormous power by stigmatizing the entire right race with all this thing of America's path. The slavery, deprigation, racism, black poverty, red lining, all of that. White people are condemned to carry that burden. And if you don't agree, then the shari come down. You are racist. You are, for disagreeing with that, you need to carry that burden. You have white privilege, you have white majority, you have all of the things that you might carry those things. And so is the enormous power of my brother, his death, you know, three years with the black and white. And we started, if he were a black militian, a black liberation, and so that's why he understood, as he said earlier, the oppressed, first of all, the oppressed your dynamic because that's where he believed in until he woke up with the war, that's not the American right. So that's why you get this formula today, where I put it in another way. White guilt in transnational. White people because of the civil rights movement, which you have the the racial premises, and then you have the civil rights movement, and they collide it. And the civil rights movement, then you guys are immoral. Your racism is immoral, to borrow my father's words. You are immoral people. The rights were on the top and they fell. Well, you can't have that without them fall out. And that fallout is white guilt. That's why it comes out of the nazis Dixie, and show where you have a people. They're falling, which you they want. They want to move away from that guilt. So the people on the left that are, look by it, we will buy our innocent. We're not a deep brother of the people, but we'll give them program, we'll give them everything under the stunts, we'll help them, we are innocent. We're not light of white people on the right, who stayed a deep brother of men and the American principles are the way. Those are the racial. We are the innocent one. And black people are the ones to show to do it. Black power is black bishimistation. So they stole the bishimistation to these wives and to rape them, she buy their innocent. So you're locked into the stimpioche. And it's been very devastated because when you go into that stimpioche, you are trapped by your race. You can never move out of bishimistation. You can never move a rape from this false innocent. So they should keep looking at every chapter in America, um, stint in the night, she's just did the same dynamic, the Palestinian, but they're all along. And so after October 7th, they're just stuck in white. What if this doesn't really matter of Palestinians, because I saw some on the Stanford campus that had blonde hair and they were white. But so they just declare themselves victims and then we don't care about race anymore. That's what I don't understand. When I was at Cal State, Fresno, I was told by a dean, don't you know, I'm not going to hire a white male. So you can spend all the time you want with your searches. But if you bring me a white male, I'm not going to hire him because I'm not going to be stuck here. I'm home all my life. I want to get out of here. And the only way to get out of here is to hire non-white males. And I said, well, the person that you want to hire is an Argentine aristocrat with blue eyes that trills his Rs and have accent marks. Is that count? So it's everybody, it's everybody, it's transcended from the original idea of black white now to everybody who has a claim, however tenuous that they're not white, or they were oppressed by white people. Yeah, it's a, it's a shame that the rest are under white supremacy. You have Lichino, the Lula who fighting should be on the white side. They didn't want to suffer like the black people. So people read the power structure. And then that's no damn issue because then you people become tribal and they recognize themselves around there rather than around the American principle. Many Americans are going to have a big wake up call. We have never seen that migration as high as it has been in the last few years. This year there have been more people coming to the UK in small boats than ever before. You did an extreme thing to the country. Britain is facing a migrant prime epidemic. We don't actually know where they're coming from, who they are, how old they are. Why would you let in millions of people who are indebted if not to change the country from within? There is no other word for it. Demographic replacement. England's a blue thing for America is coming. It's just a blue thing. Thousands of daily migrant crossings. A political earthquake threatens to reshape America. We are showing there is a new path for politics in our country. No old coaches on the site. You cannot, that's shitty. America is a nation of America. We are a nation of America. We're a nation of immigrants. The immigration crisis. Watch now on the Heritage Foundations YouTube channel. You can really see what you're talking about. I mean, this latest immigration phenomenon from the Middle East, so Hassan Piker drives a $200,000 push, but he says he hates America for what it's done, and he says he's a person of color. He's Turkey. And then we have Mondami, who was 0.01% of the Indian community in Uganda, which controlled 65% of the GDP. So he was a settler colonialist. He comes over the United States. His parents are very wealthy, and he's accusing Israel of being settler colonial. He is on the good side, and he wants the Israelis to suffer white guilt. And then we have Ilyan Omar, who comes from Somalia, and fills out a federal form, and says she's worth $30 million, and she's white guilt. And then we have Mondami, and then we have El Saeed running for Senate and Michigan, and he just filed a tax return that he and his wife made $600,000. But he's a victim, and he's a. So it's a paradigm, it's in there. The paradigm there. Do you think that this piling on from the original black, white dichotomy will destroy white guilt finally, that the number of people who are victims are just too big for the number of victimizers? Do you think so? It's a question. Yeah. It's a good question. And the question is, which one goes first, America, or what are powers for us? That's an apocalyptic view, but it's a good one. Yeah. I mean, I live in. I was born in 1974. So my gene is a little bit different than my father, because he's born in the '90s, '40s, this. So even if he lived through astral oppression, I lived through the promise. And in other words, when I was born and came to the Bay Area at the end of '94, as my father probably tell you, people who come up to our family is the, "Wow, what a beautiful family you have." You know, all this, I mean, why do people keep coming up to us and saying that? These hippies, these hippies, and my father's the world because we are in the racial family. They see us as a sign of progress, we don't think about that way, but it's too outdated. We appear to be that way. And so I grew up with this promise, and it's gotten worse, and it's gotten worse and worse. And you know, sometimes I don't know what to say, because I think it was getting worse, and we thought the affirmative actually was bad. We didn't see where we were coming around the pipeline, and to answer your question earlier about all these people that be into that oppressed boss. Have it education system, have been educated people should do the world that way, all the young people that do that for you. Right. Yeah. Shelby, what would happen if white people just said, "I'm not guilty anymore"? I suppose it's the question, people are sort of simmering out there at the moment. No one knows for sure, certainly, but what got me involved in this project is the idea that white guilt is basically a redemptive guilt. It is white saying, "We need a way out from under this accusation that we're somehow less than human because we're white, or we're less than moral because we're white." The original sin was committed by Martin Luther King, who said, "I am who basically joined white supremacy with immorality." He joined race to morality before that. It had never been really moral, I mean, it didn't have anything to do with that. It was the custom, most Americans, as everyone knows now, did not have slaves and so forth. But the civil rights movements, Martin Luther King, was the articulator of this situation, but they said, "Now racism is evil." That's the big revelation, the big movement of history forward. It occurred over the last several decades. I now can look at white people and I can accuse them of being racist if they support affirmative action, which they do and which I will. That changed, that dynamic changed, this force that was released was not redemptive, but it was insidious. It found ways to get around and outmaneuver those who simply denied the tendency in America, because just simply to deny it, oh no, racism is not real, it's not here, it's good. Including myself, I've written things talking about racism being over with, but it's not. It's a tenacious bugger and it still plagues us and I have people I've met at Stanford, which is the campus. The student body is "diverse" but the faculty and the people that run it at the top, echelons are mostly white still. But they'll say to me, "Why did you write mexifornia, which was a call for integration assimilation of immigrants?" And I'll say, "Well, I live with 85% of the population of rural Salmas, Hispanic." If I looked up and down this street, I can't find one white person. They're all gone. They all left. We're the only ones in this area, and I get along with all of the Mexican-American people. But what I'm getting is when you get somebody who lives in a white enclave and faculty enclave on campus in a $2,3 million dollar home and they start saying they try to outdo you in saying all the things they've done for people of color. But then you say to them, "Well, why don't you move down where you can be, you can be in direct contact and help them and enjoy them?" But it seems to me that I think you've talked about it before, I've listened to you so long. It's hard to know which talk that I heard, but it is for some people at least a psychological mechanism of not really integrating, because if you establish a priority that I feel so guilty and I want to do everything, a federal program, affirmative action, everything, and that relieves me of the task of actually living next to people and interacting with people that don't or not white. I think for some, that's the attraction to it, is that sound possible to you? A way up and out, yeah, it is. I can't remember in the early '60s, I had grown up in Phoenix, Illinois, which is an all-black suburb created in the days of unquestioned segregation and housing and everything else, but there weren't many, many people, did you have liberal white people that would come and visit and try to help the community? We had considerable people who came and they actually built a church there. And whites actually went to that church. Many whites, they would go home after their services were over, but they made us an effort to be conspicuously innocent. And again, that gave them a power, a moral power, because they were smart and suddenly began to pay up. You had the president of the United States talking about white guilt. And we owe, and we can't ask very much of people we once abused and so forth. And so it's kind of refereeing there that has gone on a good bit. But it leaves us in a situation we don't have any familiarity with, which is living together without a clear, without clear outlines and red lines and restrictions and so forth. But one of the side effects was to create a black middle class that is essentially racist itself in the old fashioned way. Once love separatism, love is living up close to blacks, but not really with them. And government, involvements of every kind go on and blacks look up and say, "What are blacks protesting about today that they haven't gotten enough from the government?" It seems that there should be more. It seems it's a very important topic, because I'd never really followed social media very much, but during these podcasts, people would send me things. And so maybe the last month, I spend about 20, 30 minutes a day just going through X TikTok YouTube. And now there's a whole genre that I've discovered of black commentators, black, and white. And all because of the ubiquity of security cameras, police all have cameras. Everybody wanted the police to wear cameras. I think that was kind of boomerang on the left. But the genre is of half the black population that's not making it urban, and they're just seen after seeing that you're seen on the internet. I don't know if it's representative or not, where a black woman will be pulled over and the police, she will not get out of the car. She will not hand over her license. She will not, and then she'll get out in very tight yoga pants, and then the black commentator who's very articulate, but conservative apparently, he'll say, he'll kind of narrate and say, "Now watch out what happens." And she'll go with profanity, and the cop won't know what to do in the post-George Floyd. Or they'll be filming in the inner city or anywhere where four or five black youths will go and club somebody and beat him up, usually white or Hispanic. But there is a whole commentary from black people that are and white people, which my point is I had never seen that graphic portrayal before. I don't know if it's racist or what, but the theme is that half the black community is beyond that now, beyond victimhood, but the other half is dysfunctional because they're dependent on the government or they feel they can't make it or you're not acting white. But we're into a new phase now where people feel that that community is dangerous. Dangerous to people's safety in urban environments, dangerous when you pull a person over, and I don't know what the remedy is for, but I've never quite seen the explicitness of it before. After George Floyd, the N word was completely banned, but when you go on these on-sensored excites, everybody's using it. Blacks are using it, and now the commentators, both black and white, are using it freely. And there's real venom, and this is the first time I've seen a lot of black middle-class people angry at the inner city black, so to speak, that they are being typified as the black community unfairly to their detriment. So they are stepping forward and outdoing whites in the condemnation of that anti-social behavior. Whatever it is, it's metamorphicizing. Yes, it is. I think it is. I've had sort of quiet moments where I remember once flying on a plane to give a talk, I forget what university, but it occurred to me as we were just flying across the American West that there was not enough racism for me or any more ever to be really concerned anymore with it. And skipping some steps, the point is, I realized that there just was not there was not any sort of a resurrection or rebirth in the black community. We had fought like crazy for civil rights and for every kind of government program. Black Panthers, and when I talk about extensively in this new film, we're releasing. But there was no, I grew up in real old-fashioned segregation in the South Side of Chicago. And what we had called today, I'm much more likely to be helps a lot of people smother you with kindness and so forth than I am with racism. Not that I want racism to come back. I don't have, I'm not naive in that way. But it is it is simply no longer an excuse for our black America's reluctance to compete with the larger society academically, economically in every way. That day's over. So now what? What now? And that's what that's a question that plays me. What now? Because white's just constantly, we'll say, well, basically they say, I'm not redeemed, but it doesn't matter anymore. And you don't matter. Yeah, I'm afraid of that. And especially because, say, in California, the largest minority are Mexican-American, Hispanic, 42 percent, white or 36. And because I'm in that community, I would say black, Hispanic relations are much more tense than white black in this community. And the Hispanic attitude is much less tolerant of dysfunction. I have to be careful. But the point I'm making is that a lot of people in the Hispanic community will just say, I don't care. I'm not guilty about anything. And if this guy pushes somebody, I'm going to hit him or I was talking to a couple guys who were working on the house from the Bay Area, and they said, we got to go back to Oakland tonight. And I said, is it bad? And the Oakland said, no, we just, I'm armed and they're armed. I don't mind shooting anybody. I don't care. And what I'm kind of afraid of is that because we're a multi-tribal society now, that Asian, Hispanic, white, and I think middle class and up black, not the elite, they still get traction out of being white guilt, but a very successful professional black class who has made race incidental to their lives, not essential. They've kind of lost patience with the black underclass in the sense that we don't believe the government, all the government stuff does anything but perpetuate anti-social behavior and we're not going to get involved with it now. And it's It's very alarming, because as a white person, I hear it a lot, both from Hispanics and whites, and I never heard that level of animosity before. And I don't think the black inner-city community, a person like Mayor Johnson in Chicago or Karen Bass in LA, when they keep beating that drum, they have any idea that they've lost a whole section of America, and it's not just white, and we're regressing, and that's one thing. One thing they've lost is that it blacks and whites, simply don't, you can't make them believe that you hold their renters down there, their moral goodwill and achievement, that you are black, and somehow the ideas you stand for, you know, the idea that you let people have these, well, let me collect this thought, it just came to me. But the point is that there is among whites, again, and I think they were initially driven by the idea of their overcome the reputation of their immorality, well, that immorality is now probably a little more present in the black community, and it is in the white community. Whites have the government and so forth, have really, it seems to me, changed and transformed and still, of course, want to sort of brag about that a little bit, but that whites don't feel the sense that they have a public idea, a responsibility to declare racism evil. They don't want to do that anymore, they don't, they want to be rid of it all. I think a lot of it is the clap, I think the black leadership thought this binary was static, but when you have 53 million people in the United States that were not born here now, and another 30 that are children, you're getting up to 25% of first and second generation, mostly non-white and non-black, I mean, there's Somalis and there's some whites come, but mostly there are Asians and Latin Americans, and they are the fastest growing minorities, and for them, the white black binary makes no sense. To the degree their elites want to latch onto it as non-whites and take advantage of it, obviously, but that has confused things, because you can hear things from the Asian community and the Hispanic community that will rival anything in the white community as far as racist things, and you will see, in those communities, they feel that they are even more subject to black crime than the white community, and then the other thing very quickly is the rise of a very successful black professional class has divorced one of the catalysts for the civil rights movement was the black community by all statistics, even especially after the great society kind of ruined the black family in many places, but class was no longer synonymous with race, so when you see Eric Colder's kids or Obama or JC or the thousands of people who work in the bureaucracy or black, you can't adjudicate a person as non-privileged by his skin color anymore because class means he can be much more wealthy than white people, and so then when you still say, as the black leadership does, we are deserving a reputory compensation whether that's defined as cash or emissions or hiring preferences, now you're starting to hear stuff, well wait a minute, you're better off than this guy is white, some of the poorest people that I still see in southwestern California are the vestigial remnants of the Oklahoma diaspora, poor whites, and when I was in school with 80% Hispanic, 85% Hispanic, we were only about 9 of us who were white from K through 8, we heard, we were called gringos all the time, or okis or white trash, even though whether you came from Oklahoma or not, but that was a terrible discrimination, and I heard the inward from first grade on, but it was always used in one context by Mexican Americans to black or dark Mexican Americans, usually from Wahaka, Southern Mexico, and, but I'm getting at is there's so many outside factors now with class and different ethnicities that the old, the old idea of white guilt over slavery is kind of, it's been superseded, and people are starting to realize that a multi-racial democracy, a large multi-racial democracy usually doesn't work, it doesn't work in Brazil, it doesn't work in India, it doesn't work in Indonesia, they all have caste systems, they all have tribal, it only works in the United States, but if we were to emulate their systems of formal categories that don't integrate, or especially India's, then I think we would end up like they are, and I think a lot of people see that now, that if you make race essential to your identity or your religion, then you're going to destroy the whole system, that's why you have to stand up to those people, that's why when I see white people, give up, make my father stand here earlier, give up is there, you know what, it's tribal, it's tribal, we need, we write people, need to be tribal, at the religious last battle, you're over, we're done with you, because the minute you pick up race, you become corrupted, you're in the dead end, and so that's a big problem, so at the, you know, I come from a multi-racial background, my father has a white mother and a black father, I come from a myth, and so I am already super-uber minority in every situation I go in, so my fiancee, she met her mother, her parent immigrated in a nice district, you probably could not find a more pro-American family, a family, the grandkids, go UCLA, they go to the top college, they become a doctor, she was in a law firm, she was in a tire law firm, so very accomplished people, so I think the key though is, do we embrace the American identity, or not, because I came from, you know, having a black mother, she was father, white, a Native American, all these things, I could have been like, hand and the cold young, like, she was also white and black, I could have very easily picked up the racial identity and monetize that, you know, if I were to go and turn against my father, if I were to stay, you know, my father is the uncle's time, my father is the traitor, I would be on the left, welcome and living in my black identity, and you know, I could probably monetize that a lot better, and so I think that's where the key really is, for me, I had no, I really, it was not no choice, but I knew that the only choice was the American identity and that requires discipline, you have to have the discipline of responsibility, the discipline of accountability, the discipline of development, the discipline of, do you see how much should living freedom ashes of you? It's a lot easier to run away and hide in your racial identity, that's no matter who you are, and I think that's the struggle, if my father was to stay, it's the biggest problem for us, how do you be living freedom? Yeah, you know, I, I never really knew, I never really had a sense of community with white people on the basis of white people because we were always minority, but I've noticed something now that if I go to the local supermarkets, or Walmart, which is 99% Hispanic, but if I go there at seven in the morning, the farm, the vestigial white farmers are there, I don't know any of them, because the people in my neighborhood, but when I go in, they don't know me and I don't know them, but they go in about six in the morning and they're out by seven. Not because they're race, they just want to get their stuff and get out. But now what happens, they do this. Hi, how are you doing? Hey, good to see you and it's, and it's very strange, I'll say things like, I don't, do I know you? No, no, I just thought I'd say hello and it's kind of a white bonding, you know what I mean? Because it's, they're a minority now of about 10 percent and they're starting to, I guess for survival, it's kind of like nuclear proliferation of everybody's going to get an atomic bomb, you better get one for deterrence, but it's kind of disturbing because I've never seen people in my entire life come up to me as strangers and obviously want to talk because I'm the same color as they are. And that's new. One thing I was going to ask both of you maybe in whether you want to comment from the film or just on your study of it. So do you think that it's on the rise, plateauing or on the decline, white guilt and what should, we have a very large audience, if you were a white person watching this, what would you advise them would be most helpful for racial relations, ethnic relations? How would you tell them to cast away their white guilt in one way, just ignore people? What's the, what's the anecdote to it and what's the prognosis as doctors of white guilt? Sadly, we haven't defeated it yet, I don't think we, because in the example, you just gave a meeting these workers at seven o'clock in the morning and so forth and it's high, how's it going? This also, this friendliness is the way that one tribe is right there in that moment sort of compensating for the other tribe. And so now I've got to do this in order to get that job for you, working for you all day long, doing whatever, that's, you know, that's, you rebuild, we're going to rebuild the walls of race around each other. Yeah. I think the only anecdote. I'm going to be an Hispanic and you're going to be white. I think the only anecdote is that anybody who tries to be racial, essentially, essentialist, you have to shun them or call them out. I was, the biggest problem I've ever had in academia, I was in a class and I had a young Chicano student, very bright at the front row, very attractive with her boyfriend who was a gang banger and he came to watch her that she didn't get too educated or talk to many people. The class was about 70% Hispanic and it was on the Homeric epics and translation humanities and so I was talking about Odysseus and she would say, I'd say Maria would, I'd call on people. I'd call on her once or twice a class and she said, as a Chicano, I, this doesn't, this isn't relevant. I'm not going to, this is out of my, I don't really care about some white person and so I'd say, when we got to Herodotus, I said, did you like the Thermopylai, what's the point of it? Well, as a Chicano, I just don't, well, I said, do you have anything in your Mexican history you want to compare? Well, as a Chicano and so finally I said, this was the second class. I said, if you keep doing it, I'm going to self-identify and so she did. The next day I called her, I said, well, as a white person, I can't relate to you and as a white person, this is a white epic and it's, it's not transcendent to you people because you wouldn't understand it and then I had a black guy and he said, I understand it, don't say that. And I said, I'm being facetious. This is what we want to end up like because it's ridiculous, isn't it? That literature is not transcendent about the human condition and only a white person can talk about a white person and Odysseus is Greek anyway and so the dean called me up and he was Hispanic. He was a great guy and he said, Victor, Victor, Victor, what have you said? I've got a student in my office who said you were racist and I told him, he said, he said to the young Maria, would you please leave and he said, of course, you said the right thing and you said the right thing one time. If you do it a second time, you're going to get me in trouble and you're in trouble. So you're not going to do it a second time and I said, okay, I was just trying to make a point and he said, don't. But I think of enough people to say this very sad. It is sad. But I think of, don't you think of enough people challenged it openly and said, I'm not guilty or you shouldn't do that or I don't define myself? Absolutely. It would fall. Absolutely. Yeah, that's you have to do that. Maybe because my father always had one or which is courage. So more people are like, okay, I heard that all my life courage came up, how do you have courage? How do you do that? I realized that if you live in fear, which is the right guilt, right guilt because they had the power taking away your job, they had the power of society to you and making you immoral in front of your people so you rather be quiet and just like past over you and so you live in fear, but if you live in fear or what kind of person are you? Are you in American? Because you're not pregnant here. You're not usually a free speech, you're not usually your individuality which is protected by the birth of a wife, you're not equal at times you have to do that, you're less than. So courage is the only way the American principle of to live. You have to live in courage. You do. In American. Aristotle said that none of the other virtues matter if you don't have courage because if you can't voice them or live by them because you don't have courage, they're nothing. But I was thinking about the way people have reacted when I've done that on occasions and black people, I've kind of done that four or five times, I've said, I'm really, I can't talk you anymore if all you tell me is how you've suffered. I've said that to a colleague before. All I hear is how you've suffered, but you are wealthier than I am and your parents were better educated than most parents. And there's an anger but when you say it to a white person and I don't know what if a minority person says it to them, but if another white person says, they get really rough old and confused because you get the impression that that destroys your paternalism. It's almost like, well, I have done all this stuff for these people. I've given them all this affirmative action and I've lowered my standards and a professor I'm giving 80% A's and you say now that I'm contributing to the problem and you're promulgating white guilt and maybe I'm even racist. This is a psychological mechanism, so I won't have, and I said, yes, yes, yes. And they get really angry, really, really angry because they want, they want to be at the top of the pyramid and dispense large else and then have people, thank you, thank you. But actually, there was that point of white guilt, white supremacy. It is. It is. I'd heard your father say that so many times and it was a very profound idea, but if you say that to a white person, if I go up to a very wealthy white person and procedural heights in San Francisco, who's very left-wing and I said, and I hear them saying, well, I'm really angry at Trump because he might cut affirmative action and that's just so racist. And if I say something like, no, I think it's good because then the black community who is just as capable of building, then the other community will emulate the Indian community or the Asian community, they'll have sat training classes if they want to be professionals. So it'll be good. It'll force people to make race incidental and then they get very angry. They all get angry when you do that. Yeah. What do you have to power? You're disturbing their resurrection, you know, they're, well, a lot of them are, they're redemption. They've got a good program going on for an identity of redemption is sort of the going thing and the well-to-do white community today, that's the redemption is going to be part of who you are. Yeah. Well, next time I'm going to use, next time I talk to one of them shall be. I'm going to say, "Please, I'm afraid that you're a racialist and you're going to lose your soul if you continue." If they continue that tournistic racial shamanism, people. I don't know. I've seen this new word. I don't know if it's racist or not, but as my studies, I've just started, as I said, looking at these YouTube. So I was never acquainted with social media, but they have a new word now. Have you seen it called "Black Fatigue?" And it's used by blacks and whites about the black underclass. I used that in the first book I ever wrote on the race. I guess you're the culprit. Back in 1980. You're the culprit that invented the word. Well, I'm thrilled to see it. You should have copyrighted it. Around the world. It's pretty amazing. It should be white level. It is. I think it should be white, left is beauty. Because if you teach me about why you should pick up the right identity, and if we write another problem, have you met the right on the left? They're your biggest enemy. It's not black people. It's not any other group. If you want to make a racial, your biggest enemy is within your tribe. Why don't you become an American and stand up to those rights? Because the rights on the left have been queues to you of being racial. They've been queues to you of being racial permitted. They define it themselves against you. You want to pick up the right, the right race and find pride in that. You've just stepped into the box to be creative for you. You have no idea. Now you just became the liby poof. You just validate. There is this shit. And you made more trouble for the rest of us in America. Yeah. You've noticed that we're running out of time. But have you noticed that Barack Obama now that he's worth 250 million. And he has one mansion and Martha's Vineyard, one in Colorado and up scale DC, one in Hawaii right on the beach. I don't know why he told us in 10 years we'd all be inundated, but he nevertheless, it's on the beach. Then he has his Chicago digs. And then he flies in to certain places to lecture black people, like he right during the Camilla Harris. There were these black men who were, they were organizers supposedly for the Democratic Party. And they were disenchanted with her. So they had Obama fly in. And he was doing like this. Now don't you do this and don't you do that and don't you do this. And you don't know what's good for you. And you don't. And then he got in his jet and flew off. And all they were saying is I'm looking at the Democratic agenda. And I don't see economic growth. And I don't see a strong milit. They were like regular citizens that they felt that it wasn't a good thing. And the condescending manner was this. He does that all the time now. And he's so representative of the black upper class. And that's why I always said to Tom Sol. You know, if you never really meet French conservative intellectuals, but when you do meet them, they're brilliant. And they're courageous. It's kind of like black intellectuals. I think your dad shall be and Tom are always that. I always would say that. That when you meet a black intellectual, they by needs have a higher level of acumen analysis and a lot of other intellectuals of you know, wider. It doesn't matter. Only not because they're necessarily smarter orable they are. But because it's very hard to exist in the black community given the invective and harassment you and same thing with French intellectual. They hate them. But they've had to hone their debating skills or analysis to survive. And then when you meet them, they always have rare insights into their tormentors. So it's it's kind of rare. And it's that's good. Anything. So right now, Eli, it's streaming. Are you going to have live showings of the movie as well? And yes, we do actually have a couple coming up. We have one in Chicago. By the way, that's the infancy story. It's a smaller story. But like Obama ran around luxury people and they'll get back in line. Because remember, it's the real black hour of them. Be sure to show me a narrative screening and new three or high school, which is the high school from bearish bearish pool this day. Oh wow. So in what Chicago, all of the because this tuning there, some of the tuning has there that they have finished 11th grade American history and not learn one positive thing about America. So they want you to bring out film in at the counterpoint. Some white lectures, women heard about it and had gone on the film. Mickey, I think about five or seven videos. And what she's doing is she's ruining the left, the North Chicago community that has all the BNM dying dollar fifth or back in line. And she's never seen the film. You're a platforming, Nick Burentay. You are talking about the grave replacement theory. You're talking about all of this number. Why? That's not even in the film. She's just going up. But food doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You have to get the people back in line. Yeah. And that's your biggest critics will be if I could be stereotypical, I think will be elite, well-educated white women. Yeah. And even, well, even men too. I would say that because anyway, yes, we are, hopefully, we need to do out the country by the end of the year, probably one in Chicago, LA. So I encourage so you can watch the the website again so that people could go on and find the schedule. And then how do you can buy it online at your website? Yeah, you should stream in Amazon Prime, app of TV, Google Play, where you buy the DVD or Blu-ray, whitegillfilm.gillfilm.com. That's great. And oh, by the way, Bishop Bishop, he used thank you. I need to be my father and my mother. He used thank you for the film. I've been positive about that. She's not true. I should tell everybody that Shelby and I go back over 20 years. We spoke a lot at Hoover Events Together all over the country in the state. We were both the only Western representatives on the Bradley board. And it was very hard to make the Bradley board members that if you'd fly out of Monterey and Fresno to Milwaukee, it can be an Odyssey. It's very hard to do. But Shelby did it and I did it. I remember that. Yeah. And Eli was a student, a graduate student of mine at Pepperdine, the top student in the class, of course. So, and we go back a long way. But thank you for doing this and we'll get it out as soon as possible. And let me know if anything else comes up. Thank you. It's good to see you, Shelby. Really is a new to Eli.