Where Have All the Action Heroes Gone? With 'John Wick' Producer Basil Iwanyk

This episode of The Town is presented by HBO Max. HBO Max presents Hacks, nominated for 25 ME Awards, including Outstanding Comedy Series. In the aftermath of mistaken news reports that Deborah passed away, she and Ava returned to Las Vegas, determined to secure Deborah's legacy as a comedian. Don't miss the series' variety is calling one of TV's best comedies ever. Hacks is now streaming on HBO Max. It's Thursday, August 13th. We're heading into mid-August, one of the only times of the year, when action movies premiere in theaters. Though and behold, there's a new movie with Jason Statham, called Whitney coming out next Friday from Lionsgate. But this summer, that was pretty much it. Not talking superhero spectacles, or sci-fi, or pre-branded IP plays. I'm talking regular old action movies, guy or girl kicking butt and dodging bullets for 100 minutes or so. The kind of movies that were basically the main revenue source for the film industry throughout the 80s and 90s. Die Hard, lethal weapons, stars like Segal, Schwarzenegger, Keanu, Liam Neeson, Milo JovaVitch. These movies and movie stars haven't gone away. I mentioned Statham, and there's Jerry Butler, Fast and Furious, John Wick franchise. I'm sure fans can throw a bunch of others at me. But these franchises are old for the most part. And the stars are mostly old. And as a business, the action movie market is very different than it once was. Overseas, they still have a big audience, mostly on streaming, but domestically, not so much. And the major studios are mostly out of the pure action movie business. Doug Cruz, the analyst, he recently noted that the action adventure movies accounted for 35% of ticket sales from the top 100 films in 2025. That's tied for the lowest share since 2010 and marked the third year in a row in the mid 30% range. So why is that? Do audiences just not consider action movies theatrical? No young stars? Are they just not cool? That's today's episode. And to discuss, I've got Fazzle Iwannock. He's a veteran producer of many movies. He did Sicario in the town, but he's especially good at producing action movies. He's done the John Wick, Greenland with Jerry Butler, the Expendables franchise. We're going to get into the market for action movies. Why the studios aren't interested in them anymore, where they are working, and how to get more of them made. From the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the town. All right, we are here with Fazzle Iwannock, who is CEO and partner in Thunder Road, and a veteran producer. Welcome, Basil. Thanks Matt. Thanks for having me. All right, I wanted to have you on the show because I am concerned. About the action genre. If you look at the calendar, they just don't make them, like they used to. I hate to be that guy, but they don't. We've got adjacent stage of the movie coming out next weekend from Lionsgate. But again, it's sort of in that mid to late August. I don't want to say dumping ground. But where the expectations are not very high, it's Lionsgate. It's not a major studio. So I want to get into this with you, because you have produced a lot of action movies, including some of the most successful action franchises of the past 20, 25 years. And the business of action movies is interesting. So first of all, am I right? Is the market for action movies more challenge, much more challenge than it used to be? I think the market for domestic distribution for action movies has been more challenging. But I think the market internationally and for streamers, arguably is the most, it's the best, it's a gold rush for the action movies. I mean, if you-- Oh, you think so. OK, so let's get into that. Because I would have thought that the old days of, you know, putting a famous action figure on the DVD and selling it at AFM, selling off territories, and then getting the domestic release, like, that's how those movies got put together. And then there was the studio version, which was obviously a much higher budget, usually, and they would come in upfront. But why is that the case right now? Why are the studios, and they just absorb the DVD market, the streamers? I do know, again, internationally action movies are selling as well as they ever have. You know, when you read the analysis of what works on Netflix, it goes action, action, action. You know, Amazon is their go-to, at least for prime, right? Or action movies, like, dad movies. And so I, for me, when I look at, I think the biggest issue, or the major studios don't release mid-budget action movies anymore. Lionsgate used to do it all the time. Jason Constantin, may you rest in peace, one of the great all-time acquisition executives, would have by two or three a year for Lionsgate. You know, Fox had action movies. Even Warner Bros, where I started had a Steven Segal movie every year, and they had the Joel Silver movies. And so when you look around, you know, and Disney obviously is not going to release these, Universal has a eye on a different prize. Warner's doesn't do it anymore. Paramount, my sense is they're starting to do it. New Lion, by the way, used to also release it. And so there aren't a lot of distributors that are embracing this world. I mean, there really isn't. I mean, we were able to get monkey man done at Universal. You know, but those movies are not homegrown. Those were for acquisition. So I think it's the we don't have like STX came and went unfortunately. We don't have those distributors that embrace that budget level and that straight action genre. Domestically, again, in terms of streamers and foreign, it's it's a gold rush. It really is. I mean, and it's and it's exciting. But yeah, definitely domestically, we're getting, you know, that genre is getting crushed. Why do you think the studios don't find these projects viable? Is it just another example of, you know, comedies have migrated to streaming and dramas? Is it just another example of a genre that is not considered theatrical? Because buff dudes kicking ass seems pretty theatrical on its face. Well, let me just back up a bit for, you know, I grew in the 80s. I mean, it's crazy to think between Arnold and Sly, and Bruce, and Vandam and Segal. Yes, they kind of drifted to other genres over the course of time. But all those delivered one big action movie year. The bench was so deep. There was a great deep bench from Asia. You know, we know Jackie Chan movies and Jet Leigh movies. You know, I don't think those names have been replaced. And why is that? Or have they just migrated to television? Alan Richardson, perfect example. That guy is an action star, but he's doing an Amazon Prime TV show, Reacher. Well, listen, I did a bunch of Sword and Sandal movies. You watch Game of Thrones, you're like, no one's going to do this better. That genre was like destroyed. Although, ones in theaters right now, that just did a billion dollars. But that is a little different. No, that's his own. I mean, Chris is his own subject. Chris Nolan, I mean, the movie was out of focus. It would have made a million, a billion dollars. I mean, he's incredible. Yeah. And so I can't tell why there aren't the straight action guys anymore. And I cannot also tell you how many times I have studios and financials call me and say, how do we break the next one? Like, they need these people. Yeah. And, you know, but if you look at the modern action hero, now we'll talk about Statham and Jerry Bollard, because their own kind of ecosystem in a second. Oftentimes, it was actors that were not known for their action chops. Right? And Ken O'Rees doing speed up to that point. Ken O'Rees was like a lacquer stoner. Exactly. You know, Matt Damon playing born. Matt Damon was cute, right? Yeah. Liam Neeson, the obvious one, right? And Liam Neeson, the guy was like, you know, BBC. I mean, he was Liam Neeson. Right. And the fact that he was an action star. So, and you see people, you know, toadip, right? As Bob Odengarkin action star. Is that Patelan action star? Like, we just made a movie with Walton Goggins and action movie. You know, we think Walton Goggins, but it's the market. He's 60 years old, though. That's well, yeah. That is a little bit of a issue is the age. Sure. Who's 30 and doing this? I know. Well, we're trying. Trust me. And, you know, why isn't Jacob O'Leary doing them? Oh, why aren't these people that? I don't know. I don't know if there's a snobbishess to it. I don't know if there's no path. That's the thing is they need one of these guys to do it. You think maybe Keanu with John Wick would have caused a rush of this. And we have seen other people. But also Keanu's in his late 50s. So, like, there needs to be someone to break out as a 20-something early 30s action star. You know, Gosling tried it with the fall guy and didn't really work. And that was sort of quasi-branded. But I don't know, ma'am. It just seems like there's a hole there. But what you're saying is that internationally on the streamers, these movies are still popular. So why doesn't the model work? If the audience is still there internationally, why aren't the foreign pre-sales and all of the usual things that go into the action genre working to lead to a pipeline of domestic releases? I've been asking that question for a long time. One needs to point where the failures are. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's just that because the streamers are lopping up global rights, the economics aren't there. You can't sell territory by territory and make back a $20, $30 million budget. If they're buying up these movies for half the price, then the budget it isn't there to make the movie good enough for domestic release. That's true. Maybe that's it. A big issue is the price point. You kind of mentioned it before, you know, like taken was, you know, $20 million. Yeah. They were to take it. Like, what's that price point of, what's the gateway drug price point, right? That goes, okay, it's proof of concept. Is this person an action star? You know, for like Matt Damon, obviously, it was, it was a love them book and stuff. And I just think at that number of big studios, it doesn't, it's not on their radar. It doesn't impact them. Like, it doesn't, I think they'd rather have Liam Neeson after, you know, we, you know, we put Liam Neeson in Clash of Titans after taking it. Like, they're not looking to break people. That's just my, at least the studios now in 2026. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I don't even think the streamers are looking to break people. The streamers are, you know, they like people who are brands that they're, and so they're the, what the tile? They want a tile. You'll click on. Exactly right. It's the same as the DVD market. If you could put a shirtless Van Dam on a DVD cover, you knew that you would at least sell a few thousands of these at Costco or the European equivalents. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for instance, I was talking to 824 and 824 was like, how do we find someone young, someone maybe international? How do we, like, how do we start using the 824 brand of us? How, you know, how edgy and different and left of center they are? And how do we put that brand and start an action franchise and it always comes down to the same thing. Who? And trust me, I'm, we make a ton of action movies. Like, we just made this spin off of John McCulloch came at Donnie and directed and, and started and Donnie is a legend. And I go, Donnie, who's the next Donnie and who's the next gently, who's the next Jackie Chan? And he goes, I don't know. He's like, there isn't another general, like we're, we're trying, we're looking for them, try and make that movie for $13, $14 million, you know, do the upside, see if it works. It just, I don't, it's a strain to pipeline as has, has dried up internationally and domestically for whatever reason, younger actors don't seem to get that excited about being an action movie. And you're right. The wick movies, you know, most of the wick movies were at, you know, above 90 rotten tomatoes. People love the movies. I mean, I can't tell you have a young actor in that they're obsessed with the movies, but they don't want to be in them. You know, they, they, at least in my experience, they're not rushing to be in them. Yeah, I was trying to think of the younger guys that, you know, this, Noah sent to NEO is doing the, the Rambo reboot, um, he seems okay, which is supposed to be great. It's supposed to be good, yes. And there's a couple. I, I think also, you know, audiences now are so used to seeing these amped up CGI, a lot of superheroes, a lot of added elements that make those films feel bigger. And dude's fighting with cool choreography just may not be as appealing as it used to be. When you can see literally anything on screen, you know, I respectfully disagree. Mm hmm. I, I, I don't know if I believe that I'm just saying that's a theory. No, I get that. We're like, to get into the weeds, like, it's very hard to do a great car chase very hard. You, as a fear is, as you know, a gazillion dollars and, you know, they've car chases in the middle of Rome, like, you can't top what's been done on, you know, in car chases and what's been done today. It just can't. I mean, I know I was watching the Italian job remake because they did on the rewatchables and there's some great stuff in that movie too. And so you, you can't go bigger in car chases. So what you do is how do you make it interesting? Where do you put the camera? You know, we just, is the camera inside the car the whole time? Who's driving? What's happening? What's other? So you have to be clever about it. You can't out big car chases. So there's no question that the size and scope of films and the visual effects, it forces you to be different. And I actually think one of the reasons why the action genres in transition is I also think kind of stylistically, it's in transition. And here's what I'm saying, like, when Matrix came out, there were so many action films that were kind of hatched from the Matrix Act. That kind of looked like Matrix and all that stuff. And then, I mean, fancy camera tricks and quasi kind of Asian style, surrealistic action, long long robes, like, you know, long jackets, sunglasses, burial, steer. And then we had born and shaky camera, like handhelds in your face and not change everything and how many action movies did we see that kind of rip off? A lot. A lot. Okay. And then John Wick, when we were our original conversation with John Wick, it was, we wanted to be antidote to born. We wanted locked off camera, everything in frame, you know, that required something like Yanu, who we train and rehearse for months and months at a time, no kind of ways. And I think people were thought that was really cool. Now, you know, admittedly, it's now kind of played out, you know, like the, the John Wick kind of that gun food and all that stuff, that stuff is, you know, a lot of people have used it and could be us. And so when I say that there's a stylistic transition, for me, talking to filmmakers, how do you do action now, this feels different, right? It's not, you're not going to go bigger, like how does it feel more visceral? How does it feel more like visually, like where you want to see it on a big screen? Of course, you got to love the character and there's movie stars and of course, I'm talking about just how action is shot. I think we're in a bit of a transition and I think we're trying to figure out as an audience, what's the next thing? You know, we have, like we had John Wick, we had the, the born, shaky stuff, like what? How do you shoot and design action in a way that we haven't seen before? I don't think we have any answer to that yet, we're trying. This episode is brought to you by Disney Plus. For your Emmy consideration, Taylor Swift, the era's tour, the final show, nominated for five Emmy awards, including outstanding variety special pre-recorded, the final night of the history-breaking tour is now streaming on Disney Plus. So obviously Jason stayed them, Jerry Butler, two guys that can still get these movies made. You know, they're in the what, 20 million range, typically, 20, 30, you mean the budget? Yeah. Oh, I know. Way higher. Oh, way higher. Yeah. So like, what a green land cost. 50? Oh, wow. Yeah. That's surprising to me. So take us through, take us through how that, how that film gets financed. A majority of those movies are similar between 50 and 65 million dollars. Okay. And that's the answer right there is that in that range, the studios often think that's no man's land. Too expensive to generate a quick return, you got to have a hit and not blockbuster level. They all make money, I mean, and not to get into into, but okay, but let's, but let's, first of all, let's talk about the front end, take us through the budget on a movie like Green Land. Like, why does it cost 50 and how do you put the financing together? I mean, there's a lot of visual effects on Greenland. And those guys, you know, Jerry and, you know, Jason, you know, they get paid on Greenland. We went through a company called Anton. Ironically, it was originally the movie was going to be Chris Evans and, and Daniel Blomkamp. And then I'm sorry. It reconstituted with Jerry and Rick Wah. We set up at this company called Anton to finance here. And ultimately we gave it to SDX, there to former distributor that no longer active. Correct. We were going to supposed to come out in late June of 2020, obviously, COVID happened. It did get released domestic of foreign on a bunch of, much of territories. And it became just a huge video, I mean, a huge, I want to call home video, a huge ancillary hit. And what I have learned from the economics of Jerry and State, the movies, is you truly should ignore the domestic box office, you know, I'm not a math genius. And there are many times where I'm like, oh my god, we're going to lose money on this movie. But then you realize, no, actually, it's so profitable in the afterlife that even if a movie makes $14 million, and the movie costs $55, none of that makes sense, right? You kind of go, that's going to be a, that's a pooch. It makes them money. In Peavod and through these ancillary deals in different territories. So you had a single financier for that $50 million budget, or you had, did you sell off multiple territories to raise the rest, you know, we sold off all the territories. And then you had, you had SDX as the domestic distributor. Correct. And what percentage of the budget did they put up? They probably put up, I would say, 20% of the budget. Okay. And then they ended up having to flip it to streaming during COVID. Correct. But it was successful enough to do a sequel. And then Lionsgate took that over. Correct. The first John Wick, it made like $46 million. Correct. It was like, everyone thinks that that was a runaway hit. And almost any other normal world, you know, 15, 16 years ago, you don't make a movie that grosses $46 million, that costs 28, right? It doesn't make sense. And it made more money domestically than four. So it wasn't like it made 46 here and like 200 there. But the numbers, you know, in the afterlife were so robust that Lionsgate, I have to give them a credit. were like, there's an audience here. If we make John Wick 2 at a proper number, there's an audience here. And so that was the first time I realized for these action movies, that it's not about the domestic. And that there is such a vibrant life for afterwards. Now, the movies, thankfully, like, you know, John Wick 2, you know, the proof of concept was, okay, people wanna see, it's not a, you know, it's a movie that people wanna see in the theater. But these movies, these Jerry movies and these Stank the Movies, the model that they have are profitable on every single one of them. I'm not kidding you, every single one of them. That's why they get paid. Does Jerry Butler still have that manager, Alan? Yes. Oh my God, that guy is a character. I love him. We're about to make another movie with Jerry. We've made, there'll be our fifth movie with Jerry. I love Jerry. Okay, so he knows the drill, he gets paid, he knows his audience, he churns them out. I wanna know if you think streaming has been good or bad for the action movie, genre. Do you wanna hear some interesting? Jason and Jerry have not done a streamer movie. Interesting. They've not done a direct to streaming movie. Correct. I'm sure Netflix has backed up the brings truck too. Correct. I'm bold. It's so funny you say that because I would have put Mark Wahlberg in that category of like good actors who pivoted and started doing action. But Mark Wahlberg will take a check from any streamer. And I think it's really hurt him at the box office. He is now a streaming guy. They're very, very, very smart. And they're actually a lot more clever and astute about who their audience is and the world that they occupy. They aren't, you know, Jason doesn't have an agent or a manager. He's complete control of his career. You go to Jason for everything in large and small. Wow. Jerry comes on as a producer. Isn't that just 'cause he's British and cheap? That's why the Brits don't have lawyers usually. They're just cheap. And Jerry is, you know, he's a producer on all his movies for the most part and he wants to know everything. He's not just a guy who's like, when do we show up? Let me do one of the lines like he doesn't own it in, at all. It's not the Johnny Depp treatment. I just made a movie with Johnny Depp. He was a man. Oh, sorry. Day drinker coming out next year. It's awesome. And Johnny will be awesome. But, yes, maybe back in a day, they're good ones. Yes, but, you know, and so I, it's a conscious decision from them, you know, not to make a streaming. But you're right. Netflix, I mean, those titles on Netflix are insane. I know it 'cause we have a lot of them. A lot of the Johnny movies. And you think it's because they get the theatrical release first. I don't know if that's what it is or the average person who likes to watch action movies on a streamer, love Jerry and Jason Moose. And there's separate audiences, meaning there's a weekend in the theater audience and then there's the streaming audience. And they know that they need to capitalize on both. But it's interesting to me that the two most consistently successful action, you know, mini genres, Jerry and Jason are theatrical guys. And they're firmly theatrical guys. I think that, I don't know. I'm not smart enough to figure out why that's the case. But, it's an interesting observation. Yeah, I mean, if you look at the evolution of the business, and if you think that streaming basically ate the home video market and a lot of these AFM style, geezer teasers, whatever you want to call them, the movies that were sold off of the picture on the DVD, that's on streaming now. But those movies, for the most part, got theatrical releases, especially internationally. So if you're going to replicate that market for streaming, it makes sense to keep that international, especially theatrical window as well. 100%. It's just the domestic that is still the problem. Yeah. I just wonder if we're in this transition period where we don't have enough exciting, interesting, younger action stars as you point it out. You know, it's funny. You guys tried with Onodarmus, Craig's favorite, on ballerina, didn't work. What is the appetite market after that experience for female action stars? Been a long time since Lucy. It's been a long time since Lucy. It's been a long time since Milo Jovich did one every year. That works. Well, Scarlett Johansson is an incredible actress, but she's also a great action star. I mean, you saw about Lucy and talking about Black Widow. I think it's a lazy thinking to think, oh, Onodarmus didn't work. And I'm not saying you're lazy thinking. I'm saying-- No, but I am saying the studios are lazy. And maybe they are less likely to do one, seeing what happened with ballerina. Correct. And I think that's lazy thinking. Listen, there's rumors that Zendaya is going to do born. So maybe we'll see that. If Zendaya does born, that's like Game Over. See, that's what I'm talking about. That's something that is-- You mean Game Over in a good way? That could break through. Yeah, in a good way. But that's IP. That gets a June or July release if she does that. Yeah, it does. I just wonder if Zendaya did the equivalent of a John Whitt. That's what we're talking about. Or if Shalame did the equivalent of a John Whitt. And what you're saying is, for whatever reason, they're not interested in doing that. Correct. But also, the definition of one action movie is also kind of Fuzzy's Manning. I remember when we previewed Sikario for the first time. You asked on the preview audience, how would you describe the movie? What's the genre? The number one way that they described the movie was action. I'm like, action. Like this very little action. Not even just for our guys. But for whatever reason, it was known as an action movie. And if you look at the original TV spots in trailer for both Sikario and the town, two movies that in retrospect are known as good dramas or good thrillers, they were sold as action movies. Even though the action was not that prevalent, they were, if you look at the materials, you would think, oh, those are action movies. And it was kind of like, I call the Trojan Horse. You go in there and you're like, oh, this is not just an action. But would you do the same today? 100%. You would. So you're saying that you can still sell a movie on its action. It's just that the studios aren't trying to just make it only action. Correct. So when you talk about like WIC for a state-of-the-movie, that's action, action, action, action. And they have a brand. Yeah, exactly. I'm talking more of movies that are what was considered is the town and the Sikario and how they were sold. They were sold as action movies. Is that the new definition of an action movie? Is that the new definition of what audiences want? I don't know. But I do know that when we make these movies and they're the mid-budget movies, I always joke about like the town. It's a bunch of guys in sweatsuits, like yelling at each other in these crowd-be-apparements. But then when we hit the action, we went for it. You take the action out of that movie. It's a small independent movie. But the action made it feel bigger and elevated in terms of the commerciality. And so I think that that's something-- you know, you know, Daydraggar, I'm really excited for people to say, you know, Daydraggar has a great action. I mean, it's not an action movie. That's a great action. And I think the materials will show that this movie feels like an action film. Now, it's definitely-- there's a lot more than that. But I just wonder if also, again, the definition of an action movie. Again, exempting the straight ones-- or just-- it just-- We're getting a lot of it. It's just we call it Spider-Man brand new day. And we call it, you know, these pre-branded alien movies and things like that. Yep. Yep. All right, well, it's fascinating topic. I wish you luck. I want more of these movies. I do like to watch them. [LAUGHTER] Thank you for not suing us for stealing the town for our podcast name. Oh, I love it. Are you kidding? I'm not even kidding. I know you guys. And I read you religiously and listen to the podcast. It's really flattering that you guys asked me to be on it. And if I can be the evangelist for action movies, like I'm-- well, you done it right. Listen, most producers are lucky to have one franchise. You did expendables. You did WIC. I mean, you've done a lot. Yeah, and it's interesting because it was not by design. Against what it's one of those things where, if you are-- if you have some momentum, you just take it. But again, how do we make it different? Who's that actor that makes it feel actress, that makes it feel fresh? And what's the style that makes it feel different? If we don't get that with all the people, all the stuff grabbing at us and all the options, then that genre is doomed. It has to be fresh and different. And I think, again, right now we're in this weird mushy area. And authenticity. The days of unrealistic, Steven Seagull taken on 30 henchmen, the audience would need something more authentic now. I think that's a big piece of it, Matt, because the Odyssey and this anti-AI, which ARM-- I feel like people now just think CGI is AI, and anytime something like that. like it has bad CGI, they just call it AI. But I think like the no one in the pushback to practical filmmaking, I was just rewatching speed, which is now on Netflix. That movie was made completely practically in LA. I'm like the 105 freeway. Yeah, they jumped the bus on the freeway that was under construction. It was made for a reasonable budget with young stars, Keanu and Sandra. And that movie is incredible. And you still to this day feel as stressed watching that as you would any current movie. And so I just wonder if audiences will gravitate back towards practical set pieces. We went under the hood research wise for John, like one and two, and why people liked it. And one of the main reasons, and this is incredible to me, where people are like, oh, Keanu did his own stunts. Yes. It was, they're like, well, it's two things. One, we heard Keanu is a great guy, and everyone loves Keanu. But also that's Keanu doing that. And that was a big push. It was a big reason why, and it's one of the top three questions I always get from like civilians, when they asked me about John, like, John, they can't really do all that stuff. I'm like, yeah, so I'm John McGwanda was like 90% as the week goes by when we go a little lower, but still more, you know, he worked his ass off. And I actually think one of the reasons why you guys are in the laugh, why a lot of people don't want to be action stars, it's hard. It's really hard. I mean, Keanu, you know, took three, four months for training, gun training, driving, the shoot itself is brutal. And I think a lot of people are like, I don't know if I want to do that. That looks terrible. It looks like it is. I mean, I've been on so many sets of people falling down steps, and I'm like, what? Well, especially now when like in the 90s, you could maybe make the case that if you do this, it's going to be big and you'll be a big star. Now it's less bankable, more risky to commit that much. I know that was a big, the reality of this time was the big part of the marketing for the fall guy. Yeah, didn't work, but they did. They definitely leaned into that. All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you guys. I really appreciate it for having me. We're back with the call sheet. Craig, last weekend, I hit the under on the 60% drop for Spider-Man brand new days, second weekend, barely. And this weekend, we finally have a new big studio movie, the end of Oak Street. Perhaps bigger than people thought. Well, at least better than people thought in the movie. The reviews have been good for this one, which is actually a little surprising given that they put it in middle of August. I would have thought it's an 80 million dollar and halfway movie. You and McGregor in it as well. The tracking on this one is about 25 million for the three day. I've seen its highest 30. I've seen his lowest 20. Let's put the line at 25 million for this. Not a lot of comps for an August release of an 80 million dollar budgeted kind of family-esque thriller sci-fi is dinosaurs in this movie. I mean, it feels like an 80s movie, to be honest, like this kind of premise. It does. I mean, it's bad robot, so that's the bad part. Yeah, it does feel like kind of like knockoff Spielberg, 80s, 90s vibes. I was, the reviews of this movie are good. And this is, I mean, and halfway's crushing it this year. Oh my god. It's insane. She's already had Devil Wars Prada, honestly. This movie, she's also got Verity, which is a big Colleen Hoover adaptation that's coming in October. Yes, her and Zendaya are battling for the biggest most success of 2026. Zendaya is going to be in like three billion dollar movies. Yeah. Zendaya opened and got the drama to 132 million worldwide. So let's see what Anne Hathaway can do because her previous movies obviously franchise stuff and she's part of the ensemble in Odyssey. This one really being sold on her. I have a feeling you're going to think that 25 million feels a little high. You are right. I am taking the under on 25. Wow. Like I just think it's going to get crushed by the Spider-Man frenzy by the Odyssey frenzy. And it, you know, even though the reviews have are good, this movie had weird buzz beforehand. It was like delayed and then there was reports of reshoots and kind of troubled and looks like they fixed it. But I don't know. I'm going to take the under. Yeah, I think I will too. Even though don't they usually say like good momentum in the box office usually carries like a good movie that precedes it doesn't necessarily mean that it will hurt box office for the next movie coming out. Like if everyone went and saw the Odyssey and Spider-Man, isn't that generally good for future movies coming out? Yeah. They had a good experience so they were likely to do it again. They saw the trailers and the trailers are priming them to go again. Yeah. Momentum is momentum. But I'm going anti-momentum on this one. I was really surprised when I saw 25 to 30 million. So I think I'm going to fall on I'm going to like trust my instincts on that reaction and take the under as well. So you're also taking the under. I would have guessed like 15 when I when I if I didn't know the number so when I saw 25 to 30 I thought that was pretty high. But I do I did hear it was good. It looks like it's good. Are you will you see this movie? Probably not. No. I don't know. My kid has shown no interest in it. Maybe I will. I don't know. I have nothing against it. We'll probably see Spider-Man. He'll probably see Spider-Man again. All right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest Basil Iwanek, producer Craig Horlbeck, artist Jesse Lopez and stuff for No Sanchez. And I want to thank you. We will see you next week.