Where Are All the Good Summer TV Shows? Plus, the ‘Lioness’ S3 Teaser and ‘Star City’ Episode 4.

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It's World Cup season, the Nixer Champions, Widow's Bay finale on the horizon. The House of the Dragon premiering soon. The bear is almost back. I'm trying to set a scene, dude. You are. I'm trying to paint a picture of the little pleasure's life can still offer. Wonderful. Yeah. I mean, I'm thrilled. I need this from you. The watch is compobulated. The watch podcast is a podcast about television and pop culture and you can email a toast. One of them reads it. It's [email protected]. The watch pod underscores the Instagram handle. You can watch it on YouTube at the Ringer-TVs channel where you can also follow Joe and Rob in the prestige TV pod as they make their way through Cape Fear. As I have continued to do, I will say, I don't know if you saw the big news about a surprise, surprise cameo. I don't want to lift the kimono too much, but our friends at Apple TV told us we got an email saying, "Hey, big secret." Yeah. Maybe we'll revisit it. Who can say? Who can say? Today, we are going to be talking a little bit about some news and notes in the world of television, a trailer, some casting news, a survey of a slightly alarming second half of 26th schedule that we've got on our hands. You are alarmed. I just noted it with interest. We're going to talk about the fourth episode of Star City and Andy has gone on a kind of new adventure. Widow's Bay has given him permission to indulge in horror films. The first time in his life, well, indulges a bit rich, but yeah, he watched Widow's Bay and he was like, "Maybe I'm ready." Yeah. And not no spoilers, but you enjoyed it because tweets from 2025, that movie rips. I've put together a little bit of a horror 101, thank you, for scaredy cats who like Widow's Bay. I think this is going to be really servicy. Hopefully. I think there are hundreds of us. Let's start with the most important news. Well, actually, why don't we let her hear it out a little bit. Let's get into character. How are you doing and how is your weekend? Chris, I love sports. I don't know what to tell you. Sports are great. Sports still got it. And by the way, I do not include MMA in my list of great sports from the weekend, just that way. I mean, perhaps your aperture was wider than mine. Maybe you could both sides it, but I, that's where I ended up. What sport do you think you would like to see at the White House next? Oh, this is a great question. What sport would I like to see next? Russian Roulette? I think we should turn into the spin. I was going to say gladiator fights. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. It was a cool sports weekend. And I think I've seen a bunch of people say this, but it does feel like a weird moment where there was Stanley Cup, the Carolina one Stanley Cup last night. You had 12 World Cup matches over three days, 16 World Cup matches over three days, four days, and you had the next winning on Saturday night. World Cup is like triple or quadruple headers every day. You can basically watch sports from the second you wake up to the second you go to bed. And it kind of feels like that thing that every single person as I come in has said something about Curacao or some, you know, and it's, it's kind of like, that's the juice, man. You love it when, when everybody's kind of on the same page. If even a city as famously disparate and challenging to socialize in as Los Angeles was brimming with good spirit and collective beer ingestion and just also, I mean, as, as a long time supporters since yesterday of Cote d'Ivoire and their sporting project, you know, like it was a really nice to see. You got introduced to Jan D'Amande. Yeah. I sure did. Yeah. People are looking to spend 70 million euros on him. That's nice of that. At least. Yeah. It was really, it was just really fun. And then speaking of collectivism, like I, I just see out New York City, New York City means a lot to us. I have not, I do not root for their teams. But many of my friends do and millions of my friends taking to the streets over the weekend to celebrate this. I was working shopping. No, I'm not working. Were you going to zag? I wasn't zagging. I instantly sent Sean a text to say I'm really happy for your dog. Like I, I wanted to make sure he knew before, but over the weekend, I was like, there is a settle down juice sip to be had here. Do you think? No. Just actually like you've been there before. I feel like we seldom, no, I'm just kidding. I think that obviously like they, the, the, New York is a special, special place. People are confronted with one another in almost every so aspect of their life from their transportation to like the, you know, you get in a hot dog on street, classic New York behavior. That's you. Where's Chris? Goblin? Goblin down another dirty water dog. And I think the fact that they live together means that they party together and celebrate together. I think it's awesome. What was your favorite New York party video that made you wish you were back for this? I mean, honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm a simp but the, the, the, the safty Nike commercial was pretty incredible. That's good. Uh, you know, I think that I was, I was watching. I think, uh, uh, mom, Donnie was at the Puerto Rican day frame. Oh, yeah. I was like, this is just, this is how I wanted to be. You know what I mean? That's what it should be like. Reaching across the aisle. Centrist and leftist. That's it. Which aisle is this? Exactly. I, I enjoyed. I saw our friend washoe posted a video of a man like swag surfing on a light, uh, like a light pole. With fireworks going off behind him, but, uh, my favorite, I think was the one where there's a crowd of people masked on the street celebrating and then a, um, a bus pulls up because there's public transportation and everyone in the crowd immediately starts going bus, bus, bus, bus. And they all are just cheering for the bus. Yeah. And the bus drives on. I got on it. It's free. That's. Oh, right. Cause you mean that guy actually don't know if that's happened. Well, whatever. He's opening the grocery store. I know that. That guy's killing it. Yeah. I, I, I love that. People are buzzing. I like it. I like it. You're okay with it. Yeah. Okay. As a long time hurricane span. I wondered about that. What can you tell us from? And then we're going to get into the other TV. I promise. But, um, I want to talk briefly about World Cup because you should mention again. You are also hosting a world cup hosting and really just supporting Adam Friedland in this new project. It's the, the Adam Friedland show cold in the beautiful pod. It's on his feed on Spotify ringer. How are you feeling about the, the, um, you know, the culture or setting that you guys are doing together, you figuring each other out, feeling each other out as you go? Yeah. We were trying to decide how many of the people who seemed to be enjoying America so much on Twitter. Like the people tourists in our nation are in fact CIA plants. So it seems like you guys have some shared interest there. My favorite thing. Before we talk about how much fun it has been to watch these games in the US. Name was amazing and, but all of them are amazing and incredibly fun to watch. I did, I noted with some interest that the single most important thing in American sports, which is naming rights to stadiums, does those do not travel internationally or FIFA was like you have to pay more, um, who, who named their stadium field? Well, like somebody basically took down all the like the corporate nomenclature. So, so last night's match between, um, Ecuador and Cote de Voire took place at Lincoln Financial Field. Yes. Home of the, um, 2024 world champion Philadelphia Eagles, hang on to it. I just wanted Sean to hear that part. And he can't hear shit, but all he hears is new, new estate of mine by Billy Joel, the, the next one and disclosure day beat tracking. This is Sean's greatest weekend ever. Sure. And so the, the game, the match was played at, at Lincoln Financial Field. And yet, apparently it was played at Philadelphia Stadium in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And the opening USA Paraguay match, which took place in, it's so far, which I don't, what is so far? It's a bank. I mean, of course it is. But really, what is it? Uh, it's a financial services institution. Why don't you ask Adam that question? Let's do what he has to say about it. They paid what hundreds of millions of dollars for the rights to slap their name on that. And yet, to the viewers of that match, that was Los Angeles Stadium. It's like playing a Genesis, Sega Genesis world. Oh, it's like, when they don't get the rights and it's just like, yeah. The Philadelphia footballers is running back to pick a random player. Was this a football, Sega Genesis game or a legal thriller? starring O.J. Bimpson for whom the what the slippers didn't fit. That's right. So I do a quit. That's right. Anyway, I found that fascinating. Any other thoughts as a longtime soccer head about is this particularly good already this year or is it just that larger field has been four years away something to feel good about? The hydration breaks suck. I think that they are needed in some environments, but not in climate controlled stadiums or at night. And I think that the outrage that that will continue, especially if there's one like they were saying there was several matches where a hydration break occurred when you felt like the game was tearing in a way that could go one way or the other and for them to use these as, and I think specifically Fox, but whoever it is is like it's rats maximizing the ad space that they can do is really, really disappointing, you know, they can do picture and picture advertisements if they have to like they can extend halftime if they want to like there's all sorts of ways that they could have done this. So for them to break up the integrity of a football match is pretty, pretty disappointing. But other than that, I think it's been a pretty resounding success on the field, you know, for sure. I mean, there's been some already some some real black marks against, I would say the United States of America's hosting capabilities so far, but really I thought everyone was going to delis. So Molly ref being sent back home was, was rather disappointed. Yeah. You don't think the delis outweighed that the delis that English tourists going to jit delis and all the Scottish fans taking over boss. I mean, all that shit has been amazing though. Yeah. Um, where are you on referee cameras? They're incredible. Just like. It just looks like fucking there was a project. There was a negative commercial all like 20 years ago that I think Guy Richie did. Right. And that was that first person camera kind of, um, but I think that when you're watching from the angle that most normal human beings watch football, it's like this back and forth and it can feel kind of languid and, you know, they're controlling. And then when you see that ref cam, you realize like everything is happening in split second decisions. And these guys are doing the impacts are violence. Yeah. The impacts are superviling. So no wonder they're diving. It probably hurts. Yeah, I, I, I am a every four years believer in the beautiful game. And I, as you know, like it really gets swept up in the romanticism of things in both on the field, but also I do. I'm a sucker for it. I'm like, Oh, the South Koreans are being adopted by their Mexican hosts in Guadalajara. And I'm like, what a wonderful world it is. And then I was like, I wonder if FIFA is going to keep the good vibes going. And I saw that the next iteration of the World Cup is in Spain, Portugal and Morocco. And I'm like, they could do it again where people exploring different countries and the country's collaborating. And I was like, where could we go next in 2034? And then I see it's Saudi Arabia. Yes. Like, okay. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of years between now and 23. That's true. A lot of as Adam would say, read comedy festivals to get through between now and then. Um, you know, speaking of, of I mentioned the intelligence services earlier, CIA and the Middle East, an important storyline within the first two seasons of lioness, a paramount plus show that I, you're the best and pretty excited by that's coming back in the fall. Yeah. And I just want you to put it out there that we are back up. Okay. So all right. I have a lot of enthusiasm for this upcoming season. When have you not? Did you? I think that the, the, the Sheridan brand to me has taken on some, taken some alums recently. I think regardless of whether or not there are things to like about the second season of Landman, Dutton Ranch, the Madison, et cetera, marshals like it started. We've diluted the product a little bit. Oh, it's stepped on. I think a little bit. And lioness this season, which I bet is going to be the last one is, uh, is like, that's the pure shit. That's the black tar what specifically makes this. I don't really know what it is. I think that this is kind of, this is like the darkest, most like unrelentingly violent and cynical project he has. And I know that, you know, it's received into a world that that is ever changing in terms of the chess pieces on the, the, the global military board. And I probably feel differently about like, uh, special operator porn now than I do five years ago. Okay. I don't know when it came out, but, uh, the, the, it's just a teaser. Uh, they seem to be, uh, you know, the marriage at the center of this show between, uh, Dave Van Abell and Zoe Saldana seems to be still teetering as he tries to reckon with, did you not watch this teaser teaser? Uh, no. Okay. Well, you have something to reward yourself. I can't wait. After a hard day's work. Should we step down and really dive into it? We know that I'm excited for that. That's coming out in the fall. Can I pause you for a second? Did you just refer to the lioness as special operator? Because what's exciting about that to me is imagining a world where, as in Russian, was we learned from star city, which we're going to talk about, there's a real like calling people by their titles and honorifics, other like chief designer. I would be really into lioness if instead of calling her whatever her name is, lioness, Joe, Joe, they would be like special operator. You're needed on the border. There's a bunch of trucks that need to get shut up and should be like, I'm on it. Yeah. Uh, do you know about the video game development of the Sheridan, Sheridan universe? We haven't talked about this. Yeah. What are they doing? So it was, it was reported that there is like, they're actively pursuing opportunities to expand this brand into the video game space. And what's interesting though, so Paramount Games has said that the, quote, the entire Yellow Stone IP is a major focus for them. They, at no point do they say that there's going to be a lioness game, which I think is so weird. We're technically, it's not in the Yellow Stone IP. No, but that's the one where you could see the game because it basically is, it's the call duty. Yeah. Tell Sheridan is making a call of duty movie, right? He's attached to that. Yeah. The ones that are, oh no, okay, lioness is mentioned in the thing. But it's third after developing after Yellow Stone and Tulsa King. Oh, Tulsa King's weird. I was going to ask you if you had seen the glowing reviews for the James Bond game that just came out. And no light. No, no, no. It made me. You get the itch. Look at you. I just like was, I started scratching up here and then I started scratching like right here. Yeah, right where the main vein. The old wound. Yeah. And I was like, should we get the band back together? So my, should we go halves on a PS5, my, first of all, please save me from myself. I do think that in my limited involvement with contemporary video games, which is, with my children for the most part, on the Nintendo Switch 2 platform, the days of like what we are talking about is like Golden Eye and Perfect Dark, which was really an ideal, like vehicle in which to express our feelings about Wutan Clans, the W being released. And also where we were in terms of like drink consumption. Like that was a good, because you just sort of ran around dark hallways and smashed the bus. Video gaming now for the most part is like a lot of like, you're doing great James Bond. Why not try turning left here? And he's like, I bet I can't. My trauma. Like, no, sky falls to the right. Like there's so much talking. There's some really good parodies of this that I've been served. But basically, like, for example, when, when we were in college, much in the same way that you went to hardcore shows and I asked you if you'd come with me to see Bell and Sebastian play at a university library. When we crossed over, it would often be in the realm of like a, like a Golden Eye or Perfect Dark or Super Chuck. Right. But in my own time, I would play like Final Fantasy 7, you know? And like really, like, bring down the evil Shinra Corporation from the comfort of my dorm room. So they remade this game for the Switch 2 and I was like, children, children, your father has a cultural artifact to share with you that has been updated to your demand and graphical standards. Yeah. And the entire game now is like the whole, the whole purpose of the first game and it was really brilliant at the time is you're playing this main character who's a cipher who looks cool as hell. He's got a big. Final fantasy. Yeah, he's got a big sword. And the name is clout. There's many Final Fantasies. We'll get into this. Okay. Kai, how are we doing? We're killing it, right? She's interested. We fixed the chart out. I know. But I'm just saying, the point is in that game, the blankness of your protagonist is the story because you find out that his memories are fake and everyone else is reacting to him and whatever, whatever. In the new game, because there's a need for constant talking, he's, he's just like every time you fight, he's like, gotcha. You won't walk away from that. So easily, will you? She's like, look out, clout. Well done. And then like, there's the voice of the game being like, we must hurry if we want to solve the mystery. Sounds like the social reckoning teaser. It's exactly like that. That's contemporary. All of this, right? Like, we must fill the frame and the speakers with as much information constantly as possible. All of this is to say, I don't know if a James Bond game would give us the base thrills that we're looking for anymore, but it might teach you there's only one way to find out. All right. There's only one way to find out. Speaking of spying. I just wanted to mention that the legacy of Spies TV series that's supposed to come out on BBC. But then stars, I believe, or MGM, MGM, I think, yeah, because of the Bond IP. Probably next year, I would imagine, and this will lead me to my next segment is continues to fill out its cast. They're stacking this thing. They got Hugh Laurie playing control, which I think is sicko mode. And then one of the most interesting choices I've seen in a minute, Joe Alwyn is playing Jim Prado for John Lakeri fans. This is an adaptation of a John Lakeri book, but it is is basically the LaCarrie Inc. You know, his sons and the sort of production company that they formed. It's their effort to basically start the John LaCarrie shared universe, I think. Jim Prado is like a major character in Tinkertailer and Joe Allen, who has done Yomin's work at rehabilitating his career. And I think it's like public facing personas since his romance with Taylor Swift. Is like, you know, he's made some really good movies. He's been in some really good movies, and I dare say, I think that this entire thing kind of hinges on whether or not he's any good. He seems good. I've heard he's a nice guy. You don't like his contributions to the tortured poets. - I like to men in the brutalist. - Okay, classic Pennsylvania right there. - I liked his shadow over songs like The Black Dog, more than I liked his performance in the brutalist. - You were not a brutalist guy. - No, I hated the brutalist. - Anyway, that's a show that I'm looking forward to. And one of the segments I wanted to do with you today is a question I had. Are we back in like 1994, where we just are taking the late summer off from television? - Oh, I thought you were saying, are we back in the way like people say it online? - So I was reading Joe Dalyan had a really good piece in Vulture about Widow's Bay and how has become a kind of late breaking Emmy, if not favorite, at least danger to really upset the apple cart with the Emmys, with the noms and stuff. And I completely agree. I think I don't think that there has been a show maybe other than the pit and nights that I have heard more people in my life talking about in glowing terms and that they don't vote for Emmys. - What was the second one you said? Like Night of the Saturday? - The pit and Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Where people are like catching up with it week to week, it's growing and growing over the course of the time. - I mean, Joe had some data about that. I think streaming data is always a little bit suspect. But it seems undeniably true in both like the numbers he had and in lived experience that this is a unicorn in the sense that it has grown exponentially week over week and apparently is still growing. Like the audience is finding it even now on the precipice of the finale. - So I thought that was interesting and in that piece he mentions the way that spring in TV has turned into late November December in movies and that the studios are essentially banking their stuff that they think is Emmy worthy to put out at the same time. And now we've complained about this before where there's this huge glut of stuff over the last six weeks leading up until the Emmy deadline. And then there is kind of this like almost collapse that happens. Now we do have some good stuff coming out in the coming weeks. Like I mentioned earlier in the show, there's House of the Dragon, the agency, the bear, the Larry David show, I mean, not necessarily for our pod but the legally blonde show, Elle is coming on Amazon Prime, Lucky, the Ann Yachtiller Joy's show on Apple. Lanterns is later this summer and the Wolf Feral Golf comedy, The Hawk, I think is still coming out this summer although it's always hard to tell the Netflix sometimes. But I don't think other than until potter in December, there's like a big show in the fall. It as far as I can tell. - Well, we could be surprised. - We could always be surprised. And that's actually among my favorite moments for this pod and for watching TV is when either you can catch up on stuff or something comes out of nowhere. Some maybe it's a show from another country or maybe it's something that you didn't know that Netflix or Apple had and now it's in your face. HBO often will sometimes have a random thing that they're showing on like what would be like, a Monday night show and it becomes a big deal. But I don't really care about the Emmys as I've said before but do you think that the Emmys are maybe like a little towering a little too largely over the schedule? - Yeah, I think it's a very interesting point to make and I think that like we are dealing with a deficit of attention economy and it has never been harder to break through the noise for anything because as we discuss it and as we live, everything TVs, movie, music, politics, news is competing with everything that has ever happened. - Disclosure J, so probably would have made more money if it wasn't for the Nix and the World Cup. - Right. - And although Sean managed to do all three probably. - He sure did. - So he's doing his part. It's representative in an interesting way of what the major streamers and networks are thinking in terms of what their best bet is for some of their material and maybe we're due for correction because I think that there has been such smart scheduling Jiu Jitsu performed over the last few years. It's now been quite some time, but Netflix actually realizing that the holidays aren't the time to avoid releasing things. It's actually the best time to flood the zone, especially with family friendly or appointment type viewing, like the stranger things. - Yeah. - That's something that now HBO has learned its lesson from and that's why the Harry Potter show is coming out around Christmas. It may be time now that schedules are finally, this may be the first year, first 18 months that things have finally kind of got back to normal and on track since the double Emmy of COVID in the strikes. But to your point, like late summer now seems like an opportunity. I think that they have over corrected for Emmy attention. I don't think that the Emmy's necessarily mean so much in terms of like we have now been validated, but the Emmy's and the Emmy promotional window and then the long tail of Emmy nominations leading to the awards is, it's not, certainly not free marketing and advertising, but it is another way to stay at the forefront of the conversation and to keep you in the conversation in a way that is necessary for shows that take anywhere from one year to three years to come back again. So it's just extending the tail of that. And that said, there has to be a limit to this because one thing that I don't even think we're going to talk about it fully today, because I don't think you've engaged with it yet, but I did start to check out Emma Deus on stars. And it's awesome and clever and interesting and worthwhile and debuted in the UK in the fall. And then stars kind of, as stars picked it up and I don't want to say dumped it, but kind of dumped it a month ago. I think it's, to whatever extent that, like, I just don't think a lot. I don't know that a lot of people have stars necessarily. - No, and I don't know if the people who have stars, I mean stars as bread and butter is the, we were semi-joking about it, not that these shows are bad, but there are so many power spin-offs that it's like, it's an incredibly thriving ecosystem that I don't know anything about. What I mean by bringing up Amadeus is that, I would imagine the marketing department of stars had a choice. They were like, what is the best bet to get any return on our investment or to have people appreciate this less thanically? We appreciate the show that we've fallen in love with. And I think the two paths were, let's try to get Will Sharp and Paul Bettany Emmy nominations or the alternative, what potentially would have been, there's a dead zone in August where we could say, we've got something fun and surprising and prestigious and cool. And for whatever reason they decided to put it in the most crowded portion of the year. - Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. I tried throwing out, let's have the Emmy's twice a year. And I feel like, do you have like a Penske shares? - No, the town pushed back on that, not Bellany, but the town itself, - But Lukashov. - I got, the responses I got were like, that wouldn't work. And then I was like-- - Did you get responses? - Okay, interesting. - Well, what if you did the Emmys, you know, I mean the Emmys are held in the spring, I think because of the traditional network TV cycle of fall to, you know, fall to spring TV programming. - Well, the cutoff window occurs then because that would be in time to capture the finalities of the broadcast TV season, exactly. - Like, I don't know, I mean, that's not really how people watch television anymore, so why not have it in October? - No, and, you know, there is, I can say, there's science to it, it's not science to it. It's just also common sense. Like on that podcast, the town, I was listening to, I think Craig said that he liked disclosure day more than Matt and he thought Emily Blunt might get an Oscar nomination and Matt was dismissive of it, not because he didn't think she was good, but because I think he was right in saying, this movie would have to go on a generational box office run to carry her candidacy into the Emmy, sorry, into the Oscar nominating period. I think that's still true. - I guess that's true. I mean, if sinners did a generational box office run, I guess that would be the comp. - Yeah, it's possible. And similarly, like, shows, there will be Emmy nominees that aired in the fall of 2025. Task is an example. Task will definitely get some kind of nomination, but I think the more successful strategy is to like, front of mind, we just ended. And then the best best case scenario is Widow's Bay. I don't think Apple was like, let's drop this in the eligibility window because we think we have a shot. It was more like, let's just see. - That seems like a fun spring show. - Yeah. - Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. - Maybe it's Maybelline. - Oh. Let's talk a little bit about Widow's Bay because I know that you were so fired up for this and just for the house cleaning, that's what we call it, house cleaning. We will have a special Widow's Bay episode on Thursday for the finale. - For the finale. You know, you said that like you kind of were inspired by Widow's Bay to check out weapons finally. I love Widow's Bay so much that I don't have any hesitation about engaging with it. And partly, I think that's because it's rewarded my confidence and faith in it and has only given me one example of a clown chasing a man through a crawl space. There hasn't been a ton of that. But for whatever reason, I think one version of the story is like, I'm Braver now or maybe I was wrong about myself. The other version of the story is Widow's Bay has made me so excited about the possibility of different notes being played on my emotional story. Teller Piano that I'm willing to give it a shot. Now, we don't need to relitigate weapons because that conversation missed me and that's my fault. But I always hoped to watch it, to one day be a big enough boy to watch it. I believed on some level that I could handle it. I think that to my credit, I definitely downloaded it for multiple transatlantic flights but didn't feel like the timer placed. And also, I think it's probably better seen on a bigger screen. Yes, I would agree with that as well. I, and again, I don't want to, I don't want to ding you. You've been nothing but a supportive and good friend to me. But I will say, it part of my attempt to say unspoiled is I didn't read anything about it. So I never saw Zach Craigers quote that he was inspired primarily by Paul Thomas Anderson's film Magnolia and Jennifer Egan's novel A Visit from the Goon Squad. If you, my friend, had led with that, I would have been the theater opening weekend. So my issue with that is a, that's not my job. Be fair, fair. If I had told you that and you would go on opening night. Yeah, well, what I've said, take me a picture. Amy Madigan was torn to pieces by children. I think the blowback on me, you would have been mad at me and not Zach Craigers. Okay, now let me just prepare you for the next time this comes up because this will not be the last movie in which Oscar winners are torn apart by children. The issue for me is if ageing Oscar winners had torn children apart. My allegiance and my emotional. See, I thought you would be like, who's gonna, what happens to these children's? What kind of therapy do they need? They're enriched, whatever. They were bewitched, whatever. So this is my child when the iPad is in front of her is capable of anything. And I can say anything to her. Yeah. And it will be as if it's water off the proverbial sucks back. Cut the little piece of hair. I could, I could do the power that parents now have in front of these children is awesome. Yes. You could be like, this is the Swedish national team. Yes, we're going to be watching them for two hours and 15 minutes. I did try that with the US national team and the disinterest was like a physical presence in the room with me. Really? The air was thick with not caring. Just the cutaways to like Marco Rubio didn't do it for them or they still believe in JD. So anyway, so. I put together a little bit of a list here. Of recent horror movies to talk to you about. Can I say one last thing though? Of course. That guy could really make a movie. Yeah. It was awesome. It did validate a thought that Widow's Bay had given me, which is that I can go on two thoughts. One, I can go on any journey with characters if I believe them on an emotional or human level. And I love-- Which character did you identify with in weapons? Gladys. I think the elderly are often discarded by our capitalistic society, you know? And I felt like her attempt to find a home. We've both been motivated by elder care recently. Berlin gives real like Sundad vibes, but I wondered whether or not you really were like, I too would never give up looking for my disappeared child. Oh, none of that. No, no, no. I didn't need to find me in this. Because I think we know generally that like book talk and like YA fandom is like super toxic. But then there were those people who were like, I don't read the descriptions. I only read dialogue. Because why would I want-- why would I trust someone else's point of view? I do not see this. This is a whole movement of people. I think I was saving it for our book talk, not T.O.K. but actual talk about books. Anyway, I do not need to have a hero on screen to watch art. That said, I mean, like the fact that the movie was grounded in a world in which Julia Garner has this like, you know, destructive relationship with Alden Aernreich's cop. Yeah. And that they have a history with each other. A world piece of my Alden era IPO, don't you? I am fucking almost missed it. One saw him in Becky Shaw. I know. And Andy's text response was, so you really like him, huh? What do you mean, no? That was your response. That you saw the movie? No, that you saw the play. When I was like, my boy Alden cooking in Becky Shaw and you were like, oh, you really like that guy, huh? Well, I saw like a real asshole of a text. I think you're just like, I give blue criticism like a Broadway play and I'm-- Must be nice. It's probably what he says. Basically, he's like cooking dinner that I know is going to be rejected in six minutes. And you're like, Broadway. Yeah. No, no, I just like, I loved the attention to, in the spirit of Magnolia, the attention to characters who felt fully realized and real before the supernatural shit and the way that it overlapped the stories and took one step back for different perspective. And like, these little details, like Benedict Wong, principal Benedict Wong and his husband having hot dog day, like just little fucking fun, funny details were wonderful. And Aaron Reich is awesome in that part. One, I bought into that world. Anything could happen in it. And it was enjoyable and gripping and not shocking. I will say that the other thing that I realized in my long absence from real horror, other than New York Times.com is the opinion pages, by the way, not the news, is that I kind of forgot that there is-- Did you read an angry letter about the Kathy Rummler profile that they read? I drafted one. Dear, sir. My drafts folder is playing. Dear, sirs and madems. No, the thing that's driving me craziest about the Times right now is that they change their headlines to be less stupid as the day goes on. That's always been like a gimmick on Twitter where people are like, fixed it for you, you know? But criminal enters White House for a second time. Fix it for you by the edit. No, it's like the Michelle Goldberg column was just like, I followed the Democrat that everyone who's smart wants to be president. And then by the end of the day, it was like a day with John Ossoff. Yeah. Anyway, I do-- They know the angriest people get up first, you know? Good morning. Fire off a couple of texts to you about what you're wasting your time with in theater. This is going to sound very silly saying this to you, because you are bane born in this particular darkness. But I definitely have self-selected myself out of a lot of entertainment that plays to not just horror-wise, but like the way you feel at the end, when Gladys gets ripped apart by children, is a cortisol adrenaline emotion spike that also comes at the end of diehard. A movie I hadn't seen in a while and watched recently, like an action movie thing. And that is-- that's what I was saying. Like the part of the keyboard that I don't often tickle, that was wild. Yeah, like I think that I am increasingly becoming the person who rides roller coasters to feel something. But we're that, like, pretty soon I'm not going to eat the roller coaster. It's just going to be like, what's the tallest building? And then what are you going to do? Just jump in and feel, you know? But with horror movies, that's a-- I meant that more as a metaphor. You want to know where you should go next. And-- Or if I can, yeah. Well, the biggest question is, are you so fired up? Are you so lost on this weapons gas that you'll go see Resident Evil with me? I think two things. One, fountains of blood in this movie. I think that's going to be zombies. Well, I mean, I did just-- Undead. I'm sorry, you know? That's what we're calling them now. Is that the unhoused of zombies? Incredible. OK, I will cop to one last thing. I think controlling the environment helped my engagement with the weather. I did have the lights on. I did have a cat nearby for throttling and grabbing purposes. She was not scared, by the way. She seemed worse. I could-- I don't know, it was powerful for me to be like, if I'm wrong about this, I could go in the other room. Yeah. You can always hit pause. Yeah, I can't do that with the other-- That's really getting on the ride, so I don't know. Yeah, OK. So Resident Evil is the next cragger movie. Yeah, I saw the trailers, sick. It's sick. That's your boy else's neighborhoods, too, back for more. Another IPO holding. I've been-- You haven't been nurturing that way. Yeah, I am America's first trillionaire. You fucking bought that as a penny stock from Spike Jones. I saw him in paper towns. Incredible. A movie with Cara DeLavine, and I can't remember who else. And it's like-- It was a John Green adaptation. And I was like, that kid's going crazy. Where is I? Thought it was Gracie's less talented younger brother until about six weeks ago. No, I know. But that probably is why you didn't respect his craft, because you were like another nepo, much like Jane Campian's daughter, stomping all over Star City. I am detecting a slight width of a need for a minor amount of ironic distance in your heart. What I'm saying is give me the three pitch speeds that I could go into. OK, so number one would be things that have some tongue in cheek, some meta commentary, some comic elements. Scary movie five. No. OK, good. Sean of the Dead. I love that. OK, just making sure. I mean, that-- yeah, come on. Cabin in the woods. I've never seen it. I think you would enjoy it. OK. And Scream 3, which is the one set in Hollywood where they're making a-- Yeah. Scream-- they're making a stab about Scream. And the script is kind of being written as it goes and killing people. But don't you think that runs a foul of my first-- the first plank in my absolutely-- rock solid weapons platform, which was real people with real emotional mistakes that Sydney Prescott is a real person, you know, I think she carries, I see what you're saying, though, and I love Sean of the dead. So the thing is, is that weapons has comic moments. Obviously, Widow's Bay is sort of pitched more as a, what if horror was happening in a sitcom? Although I think as the second half of the season has gone away from the office space aspect of it and more into the like, these people are in true danger. But I did want to suggest a movie called The Invitation, which is Karen, uh, Karen Kusama movie from 10 years ago, maybe at this point, made me longer. First of all, just very much feels like that. I know I'm in a major city, but it feels like I'm alone in the world. Okay. And dinner party, psychological thriller horror movie, Logan Marshall Green, uh, isn't that sure? Um, and it is about, um, a dinner party that turns into a kind of a cult initiation kind of thing. By the way, just for, for non-long time listeners, Chris mentioned Logan Marshall Green because that is a stock that is still, you're still, you're holding, but you're not. He's on Marshall. He's on the most popular television show in America. That's NEPO. He's on Marshall Green. Yeah. That's not he didn't earn that. No, but, but speaking of like, but, uh, but you mentioned to me because his mother was my college acting teacher. Yes. And she's done a great job. Great. All right. Uh, in terms of, uh, there's a couple that like came out where I wonder whether or not it would, they would just be too intense. Like there, there is not the release valves that I think weapons has where, yeah. Yeah. Like we're going to hit stop. It's a new vignette. You're going to get to start with a new vibe with Aaron Riker, with Abrams or with Benedict Wong or whatever. And the other thing that is, I think, for me, I guess sort of, I didn't even pay attention to it. You get a taste of what's coming and then you rewind. So like the weapons tells you what happens to Benedict Wong and then you just find out why it happened. Yes. And it's absolutely horrific, but you are a little bit. That's what I'm saying. You have, you need to stiff arm up. You know, you need a Heisman. So O.J. Bimpson up in my face. Among recent films, I mean, for instance, the best horror thriller that I've seen this decade is red rooms. I don't think you can handle red rooms. To me, that one. It's a French Canadian film about a woman who becomes obsessed with a serial killer of young girls and she goes to his trial every day and there are reasons for that. I hope so. I mean, I'm a fan of cinema and I hope that there are reasons. I do think you might be interested in empty man. It has David Fincher vibes. It's kind of more like in the manhunter genre of James Badge Dale plays a cop. It's another guy you love. And it's like kind of a crossover between like the occult and serial killer, but if you like minehunter, if you like manhunter, if you like love hunting generally, I think that you'd be into that. I, but again, not a lot of laughs. Okay. It follows Dave Robert Mitchell's movie about, oh, I've heard about this. A virginity, a virginity curse basically falls around Micah Monroe in an abandoned kind of expertia, cinematically, incredibly like compelling to watch some really good filmmaking, a couple of real fucking like that scary moments. Mm-hmm. They're going to make a sequel of that. So get on board now for it happens. All right. This is good. Also, half of these you could be making up. I could be. Scarling was one from a couple of years ago, maybe even just last year, J.T. Molner's movie and he went on to write the last, the long walk, the, the Stephen King adaptation. It's a kind of Tarantino S take on two people chasing each other across the countryside. And it's like what, what is going on here? Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? But two incredible performances. That sounds good. Yeah. And I think this is not, I think this is potentially servicy as well because I, like I said, I don't think I'm the only one who is, because people have asked me in my life, like, can I handle Widow's Bay? I don't like her. Right. And the answer is absolutely yes. And I think it's good to try new things. And I'm not, I, you know, I, I play a part here a little bit like I have seen a scary movie once. No. But I wouldn't make you watch Green Room, which is. No. Jeremy Sonye's movie about a punk rock band being chased by white supremacists. I care about punk rock bands too much. Yes. I can't. I cannot see them suffer. I just want to see them held up and invited on this podcast. Yeah. When you're not here. When I'm not here. But I'm worried about that. I don't want to corrupt them. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting. It's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible, all-day-gum V-Grip. No tightness. No stickiness. No residue. Just plum. Do we hydrate it skin? That still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. Can I just ask. I know we're up against it. But, Kayak, where are you on this in terms of horror movies? Have you seen any of these that he's meant to? Yes. I've actually seen. This is like the most movies I've seen out of a Chris Ryan list. Oh, I love it. Because we forget this. You guys watch a lot of zombie stuff. Yes. Green Room is really good. He's ready. An invitation is very good. It follows. It's probably one of my favorite movies I've seen. Damn. There we go. A couple of decades. Wow. I mean, it's all right. They're waiting for you. I mean, I am such a. What's the word? Baby. I actually. You're just like some credit. No, but about this. Not about watching. I can watch hard things, and I can surprise myself with scary things, and I can be. I was delighted with some of the jump scares and weapons. I will say, though, I am so relatively new to this, and perhaps I've double-wrapped myself so intensely, that when the movie was over, and I was super psyched, I was faced immediately with two problems. One, you were fucking in a different time zone, so I couldn't tell you and brag about how I'd done something. And two, I was like, am I gonna have nightmares? Did you actually thought? I'm like, well, now must I do things? See, I don't have to worry about that because all I have is stress nightmares about doing podcasts. A billion percent. They're never interesting. They're always like, I've woken up late, and I forgot what I'm talking about. I completely. Yeah. Bill's in the basement. Yeah. Yeah. So. Bill's at Gladys. I didn't. I wish I had seen it early enough to have not even been spoiled by Angladas. Oh, and the other one I would say that you should watch, honestly, even though you're gonna find it, two intents in places is the 28 years later and 28 years later, Bone Temple. Okay. This came up when you weren't here. Because those are two of my favorite movies of the last two years. I did start 28 years later, and I was like, I can't wait to tell Chris I did this. So he'll be proud of me, and I tapped out. Okay. I tapped out early. Because of this 360 shots of guys eating deers or whatever, or no, deer can be delicious if prepared properly. Yeah. Sometimes you have to be warned about buckshot. I think you really held Gail Simmons's feet to the fire about venison preparation in a zombie apocalypse. I have to rush you through this because I want to do star city before we get out of here. I'm sorry for the speed round. Lovely episode of television. Dark Forest. Directed by Stafford Schwartz, which I want to make sure I get right, and Liba Vaneberg wrote it. There was some elements of this one that reminded me of For All Mankind and Goodways, where you start to see the beginnings of, you know, freeway extensions to the future, the beginning of like I say a nine month mission that the chief designer is going to spoilers for this fourth episode, obviously, and we're keeping star city at the end so that, obviously, like, it's a growing show. It's a show that's new and many people haven't caught on to it yet. I'd like to see it further up, Apple's top shows ratings, but it's something that I think is just a wonderful, wonderful show and it is among my favorite things that's been released this year so far. So yeah, you see the For All Mankind building blocks of like these people are going to go out into the far reaches of the galaxy and we'll be gone for nine months and it's like, this is the kind of series that takes those kinds of jumps and takes those kinds of risks, but the real drama and the real action remains grounded in Moscow and in star city. And I thought that this one was a lovely episode of television that was also an example of this one, they do things you see on other series and they do them so fucking well that you're just like, you know what, brother, I know the notes play the song anyway. Yeah. So like this episode opens with a how value was corrupted by the US intelligence services to become a mole. And you've seen like this, these kinds of flashbacks done, tons of espionage shows, tons of other shows do the like three years earlier. Now we explain why this person is the way they are. And it's done so artfully like there are these shots of Tanya and value when they're at a party together and there's like a, they're both in windows separate from each other in an apartment and then you can tell that they see each other and she comes over to him and is in his window and they're being watched by a US intelligence operative, operative. And then at the end of the episode, Anastasia, who's been hitting the bottle and signing autographs and kissing babies, finally, the closest she's come to getting back out into space is setting off fireworks with a bunch of dorks from a, from a physics department at a university on a, outs by a dacha out on a lake somewhere in rural Russia and her joy and also like just some of the shots of them setting off these fireworks. I was like, this, this doesn't need to be this good, but because it's this good, it makes this show great. But those Those were my big takeaways. I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like even, another example, even from just that opening that's explaining the story of how a hero has ostensibly been turned to be a villain within the narrative of the show, the moment when he is approached by the Western operative to turn him, in turn him because of the exposure of his wife to protect her, their waiting for a bus and then the bus engine starts and we don't hear the conversation. All real cheese know you can move in silence like Lasagna and you can do that like sometimes an art with negative space and you can do it and it's hard to do it, particularly hard to do it as a writer in a shrinking industry like television where you can't trust, you can get your point across to the various levels of executives and development people, producers, but ultimately to visual medium. If you trust the story you're telling and your collaborators in it, they can tell you the story with the pictures and you can win by saying less and that was an incredible moment. The captures that at its best. You mentioned for all mankind, I would say that the for all mankindness of this episode for me at first was the groaning runtime. And I say this to people if anyone is still listening who wants to be sold for episodes in on the show, I hear you. I didn't feel particularly fired up to watch the fourth episode of Star City because it is so visually committed to the color palette in the world and the moment and the very, very specific storytelling that I was like, is this really, after watching Cote devoir, is this really going to be the rest of my Sunday night and when it's an hour and 10 minutes? And the thing about it is-- I could be watching this Dineshian manager's last match. But genuinely, it rewarded patients and it rewards, it's like the slow food manifesto. I was like, I had a note that was like, some of these scenes feel more like European cinema than they do American television. They were very, very long and the way that it earns it is so old fashioned and kind of beautiful. They earn it by saying, here are the six characters and we are going to draw them into such inexorably tight knots early that every scene is imbued with that extra connection that-- and I think that this-- the two standout moments for me of the episode that are both old school and hadn't seen that before. Old school is Reece Fawn's performance as chief designer is so subtle and so strong. And even if it was just a passing conversation or if it was always the intention, the character is based on a kindness and paternalistic decency that anchors the show. Like in the midst of people who have-- like this was an episode that gave Ludmilla like a little bit more, she's endangered too, even though she's mostly just been shooting people with her occasions. Yeah, but I love that her reaction to that was just to be-- to choose somebody at random to be brutal too. Exactly. So she's like, if I feel pressure like some other poor person is going to get it. Yeah. But you also could see the scaffolding of like, let's make her a little bit more understandable or empathetic. Chief designer in his scene with-- I'm going to get her name right, with Lakshmi, who's a new character this week played by Priya Kansar. Yeah. Dr. Tata. Yeah. Yeah. The way that he sort of brings her on is like classic like Hollywood almost. Yes. You've mistaken me for someone else, but I love your spunk and your spirit. And by the way, I'm fucking sending you to Venus, even though you're not an cosmonaut. Was awesome and exciting and very old-fashioned. Like I love these people already kind of thing. Counterpoint that with Irina's discovery, much sooner than I think it would have necessarily come in a show that-- I would have-- I didn't think they were going to be able to pin this on Valia within one episode of the reveal. That Irina is charged with tracking down this tiny coil, this heat-conducting coil that was pirated into the lunar lander, that it was connected to the French perfume that she had already clocked in their apartment the week before. Yes. Is such elegant, spike-rash-shot storytelling? Yeah. I was like, God damn. Like, you and I watched a lot of "Spy Shit." Yeah. Obviously, it doesn't take a lot to make us like it. And I thought that was just wildly clever. Yeah. And Agnes O'Kasey's doing a really great job where there is like this sort of dead ember, one little glowing ember of desire inside of her, and I don't know which way it's going. Like is she in love with Tanya? Is she in love with-- Valia, is she just in love with the fact that they have a private life that is full of sensual, like, awakening and music and-- And travel. Yeah. Or exactly. I didn't even say that. The other thing that made the scene brilliant wasn't the mechanics of like, "Oh, this is a spring, and this is how they got it to her." It's that the previous episode established that she is incredibly jealous of the perfume. So in this scene, you're like, "Did she manufacture a reason to go back there solely to spray some perfume?" Yeah. That's what makes it excellent. Yeah. It's a great-- it's on a great run. So I agree with you. It can feel long those episodes. I worry about falling behind. That's the other thing. I was like, "Should I-- we weren't sure if we were going to cover it today." And then I'm with you if you're like, "I don't know if it's too late because piling up four of these feels heavy." It's like heavy. It can be four and a half hours, yeah. That's really good. Yeah, try to keep up. We'll be back on Thursday, special Widow's Bay episode. And I hope everybody's having a great roll cup and a great first couple of weeks of summer. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness. No stickiness. No residue. Try new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Maybe it's Mabelie.