When You Know You Should Be Subdividing (Podcast Ep#160)

Hey, how's it going? It's Jesse here from the Land Investing Business Secrets podcast. I've got a great guest with me here today. His name is Casey Cavell. He comes from such a background of business and real estate and then coming into being specialized in sub-dividing. We get to talk a lot about, you know, why are we sub-dividing? What are we looking for in some of the specifics there? But it was a really interesting conversation I had with Casey again. We really started talking about things like how do we niche down in the space of sub-dividing? How do we approach marketing? He has very interesting and aligned approach when it comes to marketing for properties. Anyways, I'm sure you're going to get tons of value here in this episode with Casey Cavell. Enjoy. All right. How's it going everybody? I've got our guest here. Casey Cavell. Casey, how are you doing? Jesse, I'm doing fantastic. Great to be here. Now, I was just before we started recording the show here, I was just noting the arcades in the back there. I was like, how fun of an office. I was like, is this just a man cave for you? Pretty much is, isn't it? It is. Yeah. I find I spend a lot of time in my office and I want my office or anybody's office should give them energy and it should be fun and it shouldn't be dull or boring. So I try to make my office kind of a place that I enjoy going to. That's awesome. Well, hey, we're going to be talking all about subdividing today. You really are an expert in that area and love to get into that. But why don't you just give us an understanding? How did you get into the space and then how did you get it more into subdividing afterwards? Give us a little bit of a Cole's notes on your history. Yeah. Back in, gosh, this was 2007, when there was the real estate meltdown. I was newly removed from college and I said, okay, great. Well, I like real estate. I wanted to get into real estate. I just got my real estate license and I said, well, how do I make money in this business? And I realized I wanted to work hard. I was willing to work hard, but I realized that real estate agents get paid based on the time that they spend on deals. And when I started looking at, hey, do I want to work nights? Do I want to work weekends? What do I want to do? I said, there's got to be a better way. So I started going out and trying to find properties to buy. And I almost bought some single family homes and I asked the lady, I said, hey, why are you selling? And she goes, well, I'm getting into commercial. And I'm like, well, if that's better than this, then why wouldn't I just do commercial? So I started researching commercial real estate and things like that. And for me, you know, I was young 20s. I didn't have a whole lot of experience, but I was willing to surround myself with people that have already been there and done that. And that's what I did. Started reading the books, started going to seminars, started going to academies, boot camps, you name it, and started paying people to teach me what they did. And piggybacking on other people's success. And that was my first real estate venture back in the, you know, 2008 to 2015 range where I started buying self storage facilities, art, and complex retail buildings. And I'm a turnaround guy. So I would find something and figure out, okay, how do I make it worth more money? And usually it's improving the operations or figuring out a higher and better use. And did that well and did that successfully for about seven years. And then exited and started building traditional businesses. And then it wasn't up until year and a half ago or so that I said, hey, I want to get back into real estate. And I started researching different niches. And I'm like, do I want to do self storage again? Do I want to get an apartment? What's the real opportunity? And then I kind of came across land and then started researching it and trying to figure out if there's a way, then let's make it happen. That's really interesting. I know you kind of just glazed over it really quickly, but you got into traditional businesses. Is that sort of brick and mortar type of thing? Or what are we talking about here? Yeah. So when I sold my storage facilities, we were kind of financially set and I didn't really have to do a whole lot. And I realized after I sold those businesses, the numbers that were in my bank account were great, but they didn't really fill that void that I ultimately had because I'm like, okay, great. Now what? So I wanted to build a business, but I also wanted to make a significance. So I said, all right, well, what could I do if I couldn't fail? And it was something around the game of baseball. I'm a baseball guy. I love all sports. And I started a bunch of baseball and softball academies in Atlanta, Georgia, which is where I live now, just north of Atlanta. And I said, okay, well, if there's a way to make money in baseball, okay, great. Let's do that. But also I want to make an impact. So we built a business of five different training academies all throughout the Atlanta area. And these were 30, 40,000 square foot complexes all under roof and eight different revenue streams and 30 to 40 employees per side. And it was a pretty significant business. And I learned a lot there on how to actually build a business because I think real estate, it can be just deal based. But that was more business based. And that's where I find a lot of real estate investors, their deal makers, which is great. You need to be a deal maker, but you also need to learn how to actually create a business to go along with your deals. And there's a whole lot more to that. So when I'm actually working with different partners and things on doing deals, we're not just saying, Hey, how do you buy this land and subdivide and sell it? We're like, well, how do you buy it? Subdivide sell it. But also turn that cash into cash flow, reduce taxes. And how do you ultimately get where you ultimately want to go? And for me, Jesse, what I missed early on was everybody's like, Hey, you want to become, you know, wealthy or financially independent. But nobody actually said what that actually was. And for me, it's all about cash flow, having enough cash flow to basically take care of your lifestyle. So let's say it costs you a hundred thousand to live or two hundred thousand dollars lived to pay off your mortgage and send your kids to school and take care of all what you need. Like that should be the number one goal. And I think a lot of people mix it up. They want wealth. They want cash. But for me, it's about cash flow. And a year and a half ago, I'm like, All right, let's go ahead and do this, but also help other people do the exact same. Okay. Well, let's let's talk about that cash flow in in the space of land. Is that, is that something possible? How are you? Give us a high level of how we can sort of cash flow in land? Yeah, it's, it's hard, right? I mean, I'm sure there's different models to create a piece of land that doesn't necessarily generate revenue into cash flow. I haven't really gotten there. But where I've gotten is, how do I turn a real estate development business focusing on subdividing land, turn that cash and then take that cash and put it into other assets that are built for cash flow. So just for an example over the last year, we built a $1.9 million net profit business. And I'm like, Okay, 1.9 net. Okay, great. There's a lot of taxes involved because it's short term income and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, Okay, well, there's other assets that you can buy that are in the real estate space that actually save you money on taxes and provide you cash flow. So that's what I started doing. So I started investing in different car washes, different industrial buildings. And we got a couple apartment complexes because apartment complexes produce cash flow car washes produce cash flow industrial buildings. Typically the ones I'm buying have a really great tenant in there. It's one tenant. It's very simple. They pay you first of the month every single month. And it's kind of mailbox money. And for me, that's where I wanted to go. I didn't just want to make a couple million bucks in this business. And then, okay, we made two this year. Let's pay 50% in taxes. Let's turn that one and let's make three. I'm like, well, how do we take that to reinvest that into cash flowing assets, avas on taxes and all of a sudden, if you can get a 15 to 20% return on a million bucks, there's a 150 to $200,000 a year in income. And imagine if you're able to build a lamb business as able to do that and then turn that into cash flow each year, you're a few years away from probably being financially independent. We're, Hey, if you don't want to work as hard or your kids get older and you want to go travel with them or something happens and you can't work or whatever, like you have the cash flow that's coming in. So I guess to the way you're looking at land, is it is really a vehicle to get you to where you need to be able to cash flow then, is that right? That's it. And every time I talk to somebody that's a land investor, I'm like, what's your goal? And they're always telling me, oh, I want to make 100,000 this year. I want to make 200. I want to make five, but what's your goal? And that's all that's all they really can tell you. Rarely, do I see people just say, well, my goal is I have a wife. I got two kids or I'm recently married and we want to have a family. My wife and I want to have four kids or, you know, I'm 45 years old. My kids are in middle school and I really want to enjoy them in high school and I got to pay for college. And okay, in order to do that, this is the amount of money I'm going to need ongoing. And then this is the amount of money I might need in two years or three years for big upfront experiences or purchases, right? And that's where I start with people like, what's your number? Because making money is great, but you're like never happy because you're always wanting to make more and more and more. And I was in this room one time and a lot of really successful entrepreneurs, net worse anywhere between on the low and five million on the high end. We had several billionaires in the room. And they basically said, all right, everybody write down your number where you're going to be happy. Your net worth number and everybody like it was pretty much double what they currently had. It didn't matter if you were 10 million or 50 million, 100,000 or 500,000. If you had 10,000 in your bank account, you just wanted 20. So you can never really reach full happiness if you don't really know what the destination is. So for me, it's like, what's the destination? Cash flow? You're now free. You don't have to worry about, okay, the market just went down. Okay, your marketing channels have just slowed down. Okay, the deals aren't selling like they used to because you already have the cash flow that's taking care of everything. And now I think for the next two to three years, as a time to really invest in a strategy to make as much as you can to turn that into cash flow because I think things are going to be changing. And I think the deals are ready to be had if you know what type of properties to go after how to go about it and you're kind of surrounding yourself with the right people. So let's just talk one more thing about goals here. If you had to tell somebody to think about, you know, a goal and it's not just, hey, I just want to make a net a million dollars. If you were to give them a sentence in order to help them frame how to think about a goal, what would that be? There's a question Dan Sullivan wrote this book and he talks about the question around let's say we're meeting here Jesse three years from now. What has to happen for you to be successful both personally and financially? What does that look like for you? So really having people look out three years from now. If you and I were having this conversation, if you were sitting on a beach in three years, right? If you were going to the office in three years, what has to happen for you to say, Hey, I've made it. I'm happy. I'm content. I'm satisfied. And then work backwards. The problem is a lot of people don't know how to really work through that question. And they need somebody else to kind of ask them and kind of mentor them and push them and ask questions. Because you kind of come up with about 50% of that stuff on your own, but it's the rest of it that really matters. But for me, the answer to that three-year question is how much cash flow do you need? Because that's the answer. Because if you know the cash flow number, then you're good. If it takes you $300,000 to live and you're in a big city and you've got kids in private school and you want to go on three or four vacations a year, well, you need to build $300,000 in passive income. And if you want to do that in three years, all right, well, how much are you going to need to make each year in order to do that? And then how do you build a land business or whatever business you're in to make sure you're taking some of your profits each year and do that? But what I find is people aren't thinking big enough with their land businesses and they're not going about an after big enough deals where it's going to be really hard to have enough money to turn into cash flow. Because if you're only making $100,200, $200, $300, you're only putting away $30, $40,000, $50,000 a year, it's going to take you a lot of time. That's where we have only gone after deals that are going to generate multi-six figures because we find that they're easier to do per se because you're dealing with sellers that probably are a little bit more sophisticated, which is actually kind of nicer, actually. And there's not nearly as many people that can pull these things off. So if you surround yourself with the right people, you have the resources, the team around you, going after bigger deals is actually an easier way to get to ultimately where I see most people want it to go. It's interesting to hear your journey with commercial real estate and how you're improving those properties. I mean, essentially, this sounds like the same play here with what you're doing on the subdividing side. And so you mentioned here that you look for things that'll net you or properties that net you at least six figures. What else do you look for when you're looking for land that you're going to subdivide and basically add value or force appreciation on it? For me, it's just what's the highest and best use of that land? You have to ask yourself every time that you look at a property. What's its highest and best use? Because you have investors that look at a piece of land, they're like, oh, okay, the county will let me divide it. X amount of times. I need X amount of road frontage and, okay, well, I could do that four times here and I could put a house here, here, here, and here. Okay, great. But is that truly the highest and best use of that land? Right? It could be used for an industrial piece of property. It could be actually rezoned to be commercial. It could actually be a major subdivision. So we do a lot of subdividing that our plan exempt where we're not having to go through the processes that typically take a long, a long time and could potentially cost a lot of money because we like making money quickly. However, I would never advise somebody to look at a piece of property and look at it just through one lens. There needs to be multiple lenses that you need to look through a property. Because if you don't, you could miss bigger profits and bigger ideas. Now, I recommend everybody has a niche that they focus on, whether it's minor subdivides or major subdivides or whatever it is, but you want to have others around you that are in those niches. So for some reason, if you find a piece of property and you know its highest and best use isn't, hey, it's 50 acres and we're going to divide it into five 10 acre parcels, right? You could potentially make more by researching it and then referring it out to somebody else in your network, right? Or if it is your niche and the highest and best is something that can be subdivided and quickly sold off, then great. So I think it's just trying to really figure out who's ultimately going to want this land. What are they going to want it for? And then if they want it for that purpose, what would they pay? And ideally, that's more than what you potentially are negotiating at or what the seller wants. Typically with the kind of properties that you work with, Casey, what are the typical or the top use cases of the properties you guys work with? Yeah, most for us because we're really niche in the properties that we're going after, right? We typically are focused on three to five different counties that we really want to get to know and get to understand. So we actually know, okay, the north part of the county is more suited for this type of property. The south is this, okay, properties in the north, what's really a high demand or five acre tracks in the south, it's more 20 acre hunting tracks. So a lot of the stuff we go after is targeted because we already have in our mind before we're marketing the properties, what the highest and best use is for those properties. So by the time we get the lead, we already know what that property should be turned into where I find a lot of investors kind of missing it is, they get these leads and then they got to work backwards and realize, okay, well, one, what is the highest and best use of this property? Two, what is it actually worth today? Three, what's it going to be worth? Where we're actively helping people that are saying, hey, I want to become an expert in X, Y, Z County, figure out what's in demand, build a list of properties that are in demand. And then when those owners are interested in selling, we already know how we're going to make money. So we're doing a deal right now with the partner that brought me this deal up in Northeast Georgia. I love it because it's an hour and 12 minutes from where I live. I love it. Now that doesn't mean that we're not partnering on deals. We partnered on one in Arkansas. I never saw the property. However, our partner that brought me that deal lived two hours away and was able to get boots on the ground and they actually had family in that county. So I like people that have some sort of local knowledge or ties to property. But this property up in Northeast Georgia, we know in that county, these eight acre parcels are really in demand. And we know in that county, you can actually divide off an easement. So you don't have to have a road frontage to get parcels. You can actually do a private drive with a 12 foot gravel road. You can do eight acre parcels on each side of that. And we have a 55 acre parcel of land, right? And I already know all the agents in that area. I already know the comps. I know what we can do. And I know that if I find a 55 acre property and I can get seven parcels, that could be a $1.4 million property. If that owner comes and he says, Hey, I want 700,000 on my deal. Let's make it happen, right? Because I already know when I get that lead to come in, what its highest and best uses, what it's going to be worth and what my development costs are going to be. How long is going to take me to subdivide it? Right? How do I go through the planning and zoning where I just think a lot of people that get into subdivides, they do it backwards. They just try to figure it out after the fact where if you have a real good strategy up front and really surround yourself with people that have done it and know this is my area. I'm going to become a pro. This is exactly how I'm going to make money in this area because these types of properties are in demand. And now I'm going to build my list and go talk to those owners and really create win-win situations for the owners because if I look back at all the deals I've done this last year, Jesse, I guarantee if those people actually went back and said, Wow, this guy bought this property off me for 400,000 and then he went and sold it 45 days later for 825,000. They'd probably be a little bit like, Oh man, why didn't I do that? But they're totally happy because they're like, Wow, I got $400,000 from my property and I had no stress. I got it done. And that's exactly what I wanted and they can kind of move on with their lifestyle. So what I'm saying there is like, you want to work with people that like really want help and need help. And I know in every single one of those situations, those people that I did deals with were totally happy, right? And I was able to actually offer more money than probably a lot of other investors because I knew what I could turn it into. And I think there's a lot of people now that are they're getting older. They might own a home on 50 acres or just own a piece of land they inherited. And there's a lot of kind of people just going and kind of kick in tires or offering really well below market value. But with our method, we actually offer a very fair price and pretty much market value because we know how we can add value to these properties. So hopefully that answered your question. But that's kind of the types of deals that we're looking for and some of the things that we have found to work. I find it interesting that you're doing a lot of the upfront lift, sorry, the lift upfront to understand the kind of properties that you're getting yourselves involved to or involved with. Now, does this work for you because you are partnering and they're bringing your deals? My thought here is like, okay, how do we do this at scale then for somebody who is sort of working a certain area? How would you recommend them to do the upfront work, you know, and then go market to them? Is there any thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, I think the word at scale is interesting because it's like, well, what's the goal? Right? Because for me, it's like, who cares about at scale until you have cash flow that's providing all of your income. So you don't have to work if you don't want to work. So it's like, okay, well, what's the simplest and easiest way to get there? Like, do you need at scale or are you totally happy building a million dollar business and taking half of that and turning that 500,000 to $50,000 a year in cash flow? Right? So it's like in order to do that with the model that we go after, you really only need a nail probably three or four deals. So you don't have to go like really wide. You can go really like niche and deep, then like wide and just go after all kinds of properties and all kinds of areas. We had a partner that kept talking to me, they're like, oh, man, we won't we've run out of leads. We've run out of leads and we looked at their county. We looked at their sheet and there was like 700 properties in their county that fit kind of the criteria that we were looking for. I'm like, you've talked to 72 of them. That's 10%. You don't have a lack of properties. You have a lack of leads in those properties, but you got to hone in on your marketing to get more people on the phone because I guarantee of those other 600 people, 10% of them are thinking of selling, right? Well, that could be 60 potential people that are thinking of selling. Well, if only 10% of those were realistic and ready to sell, that's six deals. And if you're looking at $200, $300,000 net profit on these deals, that's a million dollar business. So for me, I don't know if you really have to go at scale. If you want to make a couple million dollars, you're doing it. You just got to have a really focused plan on how to do that. And then if you want to go at scale, I'm sure you could. I just, I feel really confident helping other people master their kind of areas and do that for myself. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned it several times, you know, targeting a much narrower, narrower niche or having a much more narrow buybox. I can understand what you're saying here. That would tighten up the messaging itself on marketing. And one of those things that I'll, you know, I'll just put out there for those that are listening. We do handle a lot of mailing and it's unfortunate to see how, you know, how widespread of the messaging it is that that we're doing with our marketing that really does not connect with any seller or owner. There's no problem being stated. There's no solution being stated, you know, and quick cash, 30-day turnaround, those are not solutions to anything. And unfortunately, that's what we're seeing. But I mean, it's great for those that are actively doing deals because they know, hey, to tighten up our messaging, we really have to understand the audience and the owners that we're reaching out to. I mean, do you have any thoughts on that? A KC? I mean, that's what we see. And I don't know how often you work on the marketing side. We haven't gone to the subdividing side to things. But I think a lot of our listeners will be wanting to understand that a little bit more. For me, it's relationship before opportunity. Like all I want is an owner to call me and us to have a conversation. That's it. I don't want to be like, hey, you want to sell your property? Here's your offer. 30 days, all cash or whatever. I just want to be, hey, my name's KC. I live here locally, trying to find some land to buy up there. Just wanted to reach out and introduce myself. If you ever think of selling, I'm not a real estate agent. I'm not a professional developer because I'm not because they typically get hit up by all these professional development companies that are trying to build condos or townhouses or whatever. Those people just kind of drag people along. I said, I'm a human. I know Georgia. I live here. Hey, love to have a conversation with you. And that's it. And I reach out to them and then they call me and that's all I want. I want a relationship. And the more relationships I get with the people that own the properties I one day want to potentially buy, the better chance I have. So all of our marketing, our text messaging, our letters, our voice mails. Like every single thing we do is different than what everybody's doing. As a result, we're able to connect with more people because we stand out. All right. So you're hearing on this episode here with Casey, we're talking about making sure we get the messaging right. We can't just now blast out letters or whatever it is. And just say the generic, hey, I'm, you know, looking to give you cash for if you, you know, you, I'll give you cash in 30 days. It's quick cash. None of that stuff really works anymore. In fact, it has probably not worked in a long time. And what's really important is we get our messaging right. There's a couple things we do inside a pebble in terms of formatting and the types of letters that are working. A pebble is a full on land specific and land centric or I should say property centric because you can also use it for structures. It's a property structure, sorry, property centric system and CRM, which really focuses on mailing and really honing in on that messaging. Listen, if you want to learn more about what's working and I've got some stats on this like what formats and what messaging how to become an authority, feel free to shoot. You know what? Don't even shoot us. Neymau head over to our website pebbleheart.dei.com. There's a book a demo. You're going to come on a call with me and I'd love to share some of these findings with you. We've been really diving into a lot of our database and using AI to pull out some of these data points. I know these sounds like big words, but it was a huge surprise to me. You know, on average, how many leads are we looking at? How many mailing are we needing to get out or marketing we need to get out to like specifically what's outperforming? I was completely shocked. So if you want to learn more head over to pebbleheart.dei.com. Book a demo with me. I'm happy to share a little bit more of how we sort of facilitate with that, especially in messaging and mailing inside of pebble. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the rest of this episode here with Casey. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like it's the same thing here. You know, crafting a messaging that connects or resonates with a seller. You know, you're you're showing that you are familiar with the area or you have roots in the area that's so important. Okay. Cool. I appreciate that. Let's talk a little bit more here. And we'd love to understand what kind of things you're working on recently. So are there any recent challenges that you've come across? You know, give us a project. Maybe that comes in mind and walk us through, you know, what that was like, what was learning or maybe you're still in the middle of it with with one of the properties. Yeah. I think it's hard. You mentioned operating at scale earlier. And I was even thinking through like, okay, how do I create SOPs for this? It's really hard to do that because every deal's different. Like, yeah, every deal you need a soil test, you need to survey or you need, but it's really hard to do that. So for me, it's really hard to figure out, yeah, how do you have a ton of projects going? And we have worked through simplifying our model to all right, this should at, you know, maybe take 90 days to close to get it to close in 60 or something like that. But I think it's just challenging because every deal's unique. So you're really got to have somebody that's working with the owner that knows how to kind of engage with them and speak their language and quiet their concerns and things like that. Because I think that's the the challenges. Some of these processes, you have to have properties under contract for a minute to really close on it and have confidence that one, you're going to get it approved and two, there's going to be people that are actually going to want to buy these lots. And that's one of our models, Jesse is making sure that when we get a property in our contract, we have a kind of a pre marketing campaign that we're actually going and trying to find people that want to buy a couple of these lots and almost get some of these under contract before we buy it. Because I think a lot of time everybody's, oh, I got this owner, they want to sell it to me for we put an offer in today for $850,000. And I'm like, okay, I think he's going to sign it. We think it's a $1.7 million dollar exit. But like we don't know that we think that the comps show that, but it's like, okay, at the same time we get this under contract, Jesse, I got to be working on, okay, getting the soil tests and understanding where the build sites are going to be and working on the survey and getting everything approved. And then what happens is a lot of people are working on that and then they forget, well, is it actually going to sell? Do people really want these 10 acre tracks? We think so, but do they really want them? And then what happens is everybody's focus on the operational side of the business, they're forgetting that we actually have to sell these things. So with our model, we're focused and that's why it kind of works and that's why I've kind of built out a partnership program because it's like, there's like six different things that have to be done really well, like six different silos in this business. You got to market to find the deal, you got to sell the deal, and then you got to operationally like subdivide the land, and then you got to potentially market it to somebody else that's going to buy it, and then you got to sell it to them, right? And then you got to reinvest the capital. Like that's a lot. So where I've done really well is I'll take like two or three of those things off in my partners and I'm like, you handle these three things, I handle these three things so we could get deals done quicker, make more money in less time. And I think that's just been the challenge for me is how do I figure out a way to kind of balance all the different things that are going on? And I mean, a few deals that we're working with now, you just have sellers that are like, okay, great, we signed the purchase agreement when are we closing? And I'm like, well, the surveyors three weeks out from get started. And it's going to take them five weeks to do it. So it's just trying to play the game inside of the game with people that have these properties to get the deals done. And not just bought, but sold. Casey, how do you know if subdividing is right for you? I mean, we talked about like specializing and niching in. How do you know if it's like, I want to get into the subdividing niche? Like, well, any thoughts on that? Like somebody's maybe come across a couple of properties before that could be subdivided. And how do they know if they should continue to go down that rabbit hole? I think you probably have to make sure you have time. Right. And I would say 15 to 20 hours a week to really do it. And I've got several people on partner with now that have full-time W2 jobs, right? And they're spending 30 hours a week in their W2 and they're spending 20, 30 hours a week in their other business. But I would say, you know, I got a guy that made hundreds of thousand last year in his W2 and made $150,000 flip and land. Like, that's pretty cool. I would say, like, have some success first doing a couple of deals before you jump into these bigger ones. But then again, that does kind of go away from like my thesis of why do small deals if you could do big deals. So I think you have to ask yourself, like, do you have the talent? And that's an interesting question to ask. But I think people need to take a hard look at their skills that God has given them. We all have a skill set. We all have limitations. That's just the way it works. It's not a self-limit belief. It's just truth. I'm five foot nine. If I wanted to go play for the Lakers, when I was 18 years old, I could have hired Phil Jackson to coach me. And I could have took in every performance enhancing drug possible. And I was never going to play for the Lakers, right? I mean, I could barely play in AI college baseball, right? But I busted my butt and I worked hard because I just had a limit. There was an engine that I had in me. And I think people have limitations. Whether you're married, whether you have kids, whether you have financial. So I think you really have to look at, okay, what are my limitations? And there's two things that you really need. You need time and you need money. If you have money in no time, okay, there's a way around that, right? If you have time and no money, okay, I think you can think through, all right, well, what does that actually look like? But For me, it's, do you have 15, 20 hours a week to work? Do you have the support of whoever's around you saying, you should do this? Because if you have a spouse, it's like you should do it. Great. But I find most people that are in partnerships or in marriages or whatever, whoever's around them isn't really brought into what the end goal is. But if you can get those around you say, in three years, this is where we're gonna be. And this is what I need to do over the next six months or 90 days to get there, I think that's important. So, do you have the time to get there? Do you have the support of those people around you? And then do you have somebody else that's on your team that can like get you there quicker that can prevent you from wasting time, which is the most important value and asset there is or wasting money on a deal. And I just had a guy that brought me a deal today and I looked at it in about 37 seconds. I saw a high transmission power line that he didn't see and I'm like, you're planning to work 'cause nobody's gonna wanna build a $300,000 house under this. The other one, there was a floodplain that they didn't see. So it's just, do I have the time? Do I have the support? And I guess do I have the ability to do it? And the ability really just is, can I follow a proven system? Can I follow a plan? Do I know how to talk to people on the phone? And if you can work through those things, I think you're in good shape. - I appreciate that, Casey. We're coming to the end of the show here. You know, how can people be useful to you? You know, where can they find you? And you know, maybe even work with you on deals. - Yeah, so you can kind of take a look at our website, thesubdivideguys.com. So thesubdivideguys.com, I got a lot of free resources out there too. So if you go on there, you can kind of go to and see some of the case studies we've done. I've shared all the deals that we've done just kind of for free, a free resource 'cause I think the better we are at doing this, the better we are as an industry and I'm a person of abundance. There's so much opportunity out there, right? And for me, it's a long-term type of thing. I'm not in it for just one deal. I'm in this to help other people get what they really want and that's not just gonna be from flipping one piece of land or doing one sub-divide deal. So there's all kinds of resources and tools out there. Just my email, Casey@TheSubdivideGuys. Introduce yourself, tell me who you are, tell me what you wanna do. Maybe answer that three-year question for me 'cause I think that's important. And tell me your number where you wanna be. But that's really it. And I just love helping other people because somebody helped me 20 something years ago figure out my own game plan. And throughout my whole course of my business career, I'm 40 years old now, I'm like, okay, in this aspect or in this phase of my career, I had this person. And I think I've had about four people over the last 20 years that have helped me. And each of those four people really help question all of my ideas that I had because all of my ideas weren't great ones. And they helped me narrow in on the things I should actually do. They helped steer me away from some problems or some hazards that I did at sea because I think we're all emotional beings. We all really care, we all wanna win. But emotion in business is actually can be a bad thing if you don't know how to harness it. And you're not like, okay, let me slow down here. Let me think about this here for a second. And I actually told somebody the other day that wanted to work with me. I said, I gotta be honest with you, this is probably why we shouldn't work with each other. She says, I don't know if you're actually hearing what I'm saying. I get through about 70% of what I was saying and I get cut off. And it sounded like and I told him, he said, say his name was Tom. He said, hey, Tom, I really don't think we should work with each other because I think you got it. He goes, I know I got it. And I go, I know is really tough because I knew I had it. And in multiple times, I thought one thing but what the reality was the other because I wasn't thinking clearly. I wasn't slowing down. I wasn't wise enough at that time to say, hey, other people might actually know something that could help me. And I think if you're able to get to that position where you're able to slow down and think and rely on others because I do this every Thursday. I got a guy that comes into my office and we have a sit down and he challenges every single thing I'm doing and saying, is this getting you closer to where you need to be? And I think if you're able to do that, you're in good shape. So yeah, the subdebi guys.com and I'm here to serve. Casey, I really appreciate you bringing all the wisdom you've accumulated through all the now coming to decades of doing business and helping others as well. So we'll make sure to include the subdebi guys.com in the show notes, but I think it's pretty easy to remember that one. Casey, thank you so much for coming on the show. Again, it's a pleasure to have you on. You bet. Thanks, Jesse.