When to Stop Mentoring and Start Coaching

[Music] The Caching Crowd podcast is for compassionate, courageous leaders, HR professionals and high achievers. People who are passionate about helping others to find alignment in their lives through coaching and do a thinking of training and developing as a coach. Hello and welcome to the Caching Crowd podcast with me Joetley and my friend and co-host, Zeyi Hawkins. Hi everybody, this week we're here to talk to you about when to stop mentoring and when to start coaching. And this is an episode for all of you that find yourself in a mentoring capacity, which may be as a line manager, may be as a mentor. Sometimes it's as a friend or a peer. And if you're listening to this podcast, you're obviously interested in coaching and you'll be picking up coaching tips. And you may have this question in your mind around, "Well, when do you use coaching?" "Thus is when you use mentoring and maybe you're not even clear on what the difference between the two is. So we're just going to share with you our thoughts and reflections around this topic today. So where would you like to start Jo? Oh, where would I like to start? I think probably just to remind you all, as you know, we run a coaching training organisation and so we train people as coaches and there is a really strong relationship between coaching and mentoring. Like we often talk about them being opposite ends of a continuum. And even as a coach, you know, when we talk about a term of like meet the client, where the client sat, you might find that there are elements of like coach mentoring in terms of where you start with a coaching client. But if we take a manager, you've got a team of people, you might find that your coaching style is quite mentoring-led. So people come to you because they've got challenges and they come to you to say, "This has happened. I did this. This has happened." Or this person said that, "I can't get this through. What should I do now?" And you might find yourself giving them the answer. And you give them the answer. Now like, "Okay, great. Thanks." And what should I do if that doesn't work? And what if that doesn't work? And over time, you might find like, "I've got no time to do the other aspects of my role because I'm spending all my time firefighting." So I think if you're somebody that wants to be able to move away from firefighting, more into developing and growing the team, that's an obvious place where you might start to look at, exploring the differences between a mentoring approach versus a coaching approach. I think where I had built on that is, I think many people find themselves in the role of mentor. I was actually chatting to somebody today who's coming on to our coaching training programme. They've been part of the mentoring programme within work. And we were talking about how your mentoring's really valuable. It's really fulfilling. It's lovely seeing people grow and develop and sharing other expertise. And there are always times where the mentee gets stuck. Like, they receive the knowledge, they receive the wisdom. And yet, for whatever reason, they're not feeling able or equipped or confident enough to go and implement the knowledge in wisdom. And I think many mentors naturally begin coaching. In that, talking about, "Oh, you know, what's in the way for you? Like, how would you like to feel? Like, what could you do? You know, that's what I did. But what would be more sensible for you to try?" So you're starting to lean into a coaching approach. But then, as well as the mentee, perhaps getting a bit stuck, you reach the edge of what you can do to help and support the person in your mentorship. And I think that's a great sign of when you may be ready to expand and bring more coaching into the mentoring relationship. Because coaching is really about what's in the way for the clients to talk a lot about gaps in coaching. So you have a goal, which is where the client wants to get to, and you obviously have their current situation. And it's mentoring really talks about the goal. Like, going along the top, it's about knowledge. How do I get there? Let me tell you, share with you, help you generate ideas. Coaching is about the gap. It's like, what are the obstacles that are in the way? And often that isn't knowledge. It is emotions, beliefs, awareness of values. It is systemic pressures. You know, there's all this other stuff that can stop people being able to achieve what they want to achieve. And that's really where the beauty and power of coaching comes in. And so, you know, if you're, you find yourself in a mentoring capacity, you really want to work on a deeper level, more sustainable level, helping long-term growth and change. And you're feeling like you're reaching the edge of what you can achieve in mentoring. That's a great time to start thinking about, "Oh, well, yeah, maybe I could look into coaching" "gain some more skills." Like, you don't have to become a coach if mentoring is where your passion is. Do you know what this raises to me? Something I've been thinking about actually for the last week, which is like the limitations of label, like the limitation of like, "Am I a coach or am I a mentor?" When do I stop doing this and start doing that? And the reality of life is actually the most powerful thing that you can do is probably a blend of those things, you know, with individuals. It's to be able to be a thinking partner. It's to be able to be so many things and not feel limited by that. So I think whilst we talk about training as this or training as that, ultimately you'll have your own unique way of being with each and every unique client. And the greater breadth you have to be able to draw from in terms of, you know, the options of how to be with the client and the understanding of when and how that might possibly be most effective. The more equipped you are to do probably the most rewarding work you'll ever do in your life. I think, you know, when you talk practically around, so when would you stop mentoring and when would you start coaching? I think some other signs, if you're in a mentoring relationship, when your mentees is repeatedly sort of bringing the same sort of themes and patterns. So perhaps you're working on helping somebody to get promoted and they keep bringing back like in pasta syndrome as a classic. Like I just don't feel ready or I don't feel confident enough or I'm worried about what people might think. And you're giving lots of advice and you're giving lots of guns, but this obstacle like comes into the space time and time again. It doesn't really matter what the topic, but there's one thing keeps coming up. That is a great coaching appropriate moment because what you've got there is something that the client is coming up against. That the support that you're offering isn't able to sort of move past. And you may yourself be starting to get frustrated with your mentee. Like what I've told them, you know, shared what would be useful, but they're not able to do it. And that frustration is really about the person you're working with. The frustration is often the frustration at you not being able to help and support that person to move further. So I think there's two signs there. One is the theme that keeps popping up in your conversation. And the second is your emotional experience of working with that. So if you're starting to get tired of it, feel frustrated or be unsure, that is often you coming up against your own edge. And so a great sign for expanding your own container. Yeah. I think in some ways you could describe that as the difference between like the what and the how. So they know what to do, but they're kind of stuck with the how. So it might be that you say, you know, if you go and chat to these people first, they'll be they'll probably be able to help you with this for these reasons. And if the person comes back and then how did you go on with that? And they're like, I haven't, yeah, I haven't had a chance to do that yet. But you can sense in the way that they're sharing that. That it's probably more to do with trepidation and and yeah, that that needs it. That would perhaps benefit from a bit more exploration rather than they're telling all the just do it. You know, go and do that. And I did that and it had this impact for me. And the if the mentee is thinking, yeah, but that was 10 years ago. And that was with different people. And now there's a different structure in the organization. Or that's easy for you because you are like this. I'm not thinking, but I'm like this and I wish I could be there, but I'm not. I think that is a risk with mentoring. That's maybe too strong a word. But the dynamic in mentoring is that you have something to offer me that I don't have myself. You know, maybe that's experience. Maybe it's wisdom. What happens when that mentoring relationship comes to an end? Like that person may be looking for the next person or thing that can tell them and guide them. Like there is an inherent need within mentoring to equip your mentee with beyond the relationship. Like this belief within themselves that they can thrive and survive and find their own answers. And I think many great mentors do that well and believe and subscribe to that. But maybe don't fully see all the psychodynamics at play or see the whole ways in which they can do that. And I think if you're somebody who really wants to equip your mentees with next steps beyond the mentoring relationship and you're feeling that desire to really step up as a mentor and enhance, then that I think would be another clue, nudge around when you're ready to switch into coaching. I think an obvious example is also where the mentee mental relationship has been really, really fruitful, really supportive and effective and the mentee almost feels like the mental has the answers to everything. And so they naturally go to them with the next challenge. Like can you help me with this? Can I pick your brains about that? And the mentor says I haven't done that before. I don't know how to do that. Or actually I haven't been successful with that yet. But perhaps they could support them as a coach where you don't need to have done the thing yourself, but you're bringing those coaching skills to support the individual to figure that out for themselves with the support of that. And I think in some ways that's a really nice leveling out of the play and field. It's a natural evolution of that relationship. Now not all mental relationships will be allowed to shift into that. There may be different policies, procedures, teams, ways of working with that. But it is also possible that perhaps that is something that could be offered if you have the skills. And so you can explain with, I can't support you as your mental with that for these reasons. But we could shift this relationship into more of a coaching relationship now. And this is what that would involve. This is what that would mean. Yeah. I think when to stop mentoring and when to start coaching. I think there's a role for all mentors to learn coaching skills because it gives you the choice of when to bring coaching in and when to not. Like there's so much in coaching that. In less you have experienced it yourself, you wouldn't know to even offer to a mentee. So thinking about things like values, helping your mentee to understand their values, helping your mentee to understand the beliefs that they hold and how to challenge and how to change them. You're being able to compassionately hold space for emotions and to do that skillful and feel equipped without you. Bringing your own habits, barriers, blind spots into the coaching space is something about how you develop as a person through coaching training. That really cleanses the space that you can hold for your mentees. If you choose to carry on in a mentorship relationship, I think a lot of mentors that would come into coaching, as you said, you end up just bringing a lovely blend of both two organisations. They can be great leaders, charismatic leaders, inspirational leaders that are there to support their team with a whole range of things, their specific mentee relationship. And they may also have specific coachy relationships as well. Like it opens up a real menu where you can use and bring your skills to an organisation and add a huge amount of value through the role that you have and the skills that you bring to that. You could look at it in even more specific way, I think in some ways, which is when someone's in a probationary period, perhaps there's more fermentoring approach that as a manager that you offer to them because let's say if someone's brand new to an organisation or they've stepped up internally into a new role and it feels all very new, and actually what they want and what you're able to provide is that. But actually once they're performing effectively in the role or they're nearly there, actually that switch and that honest dialogue with that person around, here's where you were, here's where you are now, especially this is where I think I was, this is where I think I am now. What are your needs now moving forwards? And it might be that the employee themselves, the team member says, "I'd love it if our relationship could become more of this now." Or "I'd love it, are you happy now for me to make these decisions in these situations myself? Are you happy if I just bring you?" What I suggest, and if you still need to sign that off, or actually I'd really prefer for our conversations to be more developmental now, because I think the practical stuff is all good. If you're happy with that, you've got the metrics on that. And so you're re-contracting in that relationship, which is a natural thing to happen in all relationships. It's that ongoing re-negotiation of how are we, how do we want to most effectively be together? And that's true of marriages as well. People grow and develop at different rates and different areas and so that the way of being together needs to evolve with that. So it's a natural, what we're talking about here in terms of coaching, mentoring and so on. It's natural. Yeah, absolutely. So if you're finding yourself doing a lot of mentoring and you're feeling called to work more deeply or you're ready to expand your capacity to hold mentoring relationship, or you've got an interest and a passion for going further than come and explore our coaching training, maybe right up your street, we offer a level 7 diploma for senior and executive level coaches and mentors, teaches coaching skills, enables you to work at depth with people. So come and check that out. Come and check out our website, IGCompany.com, where you can find our coaching qualifications to explore. Thank you for listening to the coaching crowd podcast with Zoe Hawkins and Joe Wheatley. We'd love for you to join our inclusive community to learn and grow in the coaching space. Go over to Facebook and search for the coaching crowd to be in good company with other aspiring coaches.