When the Moon Hatched Q+A: Ballad of Falling Dragons Theories, Favorite Characters, & Hot Takes!

[music] Welcome back to Between Pages and Friends, a book club podcast hosted by Con and Lauren, two besties who read a lot of books, and John and Kyle, their five star husbands, who agreed to read with them. I'm John. I'm Kyle. I'm Con. And I'm Lauren. Today, we're diving into all things when the moon hatched, with a listener Q&A bonus episode. There was no assigned reading for this week since we have officially finished the book. Today, we'll be answering all your burning questions about theories, characters, rankings, and more, plus our own guesses for book two, The Ballad of Falling Dragons coming April 28th, 2026. That being said, we will be discussing all the spoilers today for When the Moon Hatch. This is your final spoiler warning. Please finish the entire book and epilogue before listening to this episode. Then get super excited for next week because we will be joined by Sarah A. Parker herself for a full author interview. We will talk to her about her journey, writing the series, her favorite moments, and maybe even get the inside scoop on what's coming next. You will not want to miss it. Yes, if you like listening to us, are you for free? Imagine what $5 a month could do. Find out on Patreon for just $5 a month. You could be a book bestie and gain access to our Discord plus monthly book talks, live hangs, plenty of extra fun. Maybe you're here for more. For $10 a month, you can join our Found Family to get access to early ad free episodes, Shining Merch Discounts, Exclusive Discord Chats, Voting Power, and Unlimited Breadsticks. We'd love to get to know you more on Patreon. And help us reach more ears or at least make our moms proud by writing a review. It's free. It only takes a moment and you might even get a little shout out on the podcast. Like this one, here's a recent 5 star review on Apple Podcasts from our new bestie, Melanie Rivera, titled, "TOG coverage is giving me life." I just recently found this podcast and I'm living for the throne of glass coverage. I finished the series earlier this year and I am loving reliving it. It's so fun hearing Lauren and Kyle talk through their theories and the amount of things they have guessed correctly is insane. And also has made me realize that my critical thinking skills were on another planet while reading these books. I mean, how are they doing this? I need to reread immediately. Okay, anyways, love you guys and so excited to listen to the Imperian and Quicks Overcoverage as well. Thank you, Melanie Rivera. That's amazing. Okay, love you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Lydia, love you, bye-bye. It's pretty good. Perfect. Since there's no pronunciation guide or chapter recap today, let's dive right into your submissions for this Q&A. So one of the most asked questions we received was, what the heck is going on? And to answer that, you can go back, listen to Episode 6 from last week. We talked through all of the details of like, what the heck was going on at the end of this book. So go back, I'm telling you, listen to Episode 6. We cover a lot. Yes, go back, reread. So check out Episode 6 and then come back. You'll be good. And with that, we're going to head into the questions, starting with some general reactions and thoughts. So the first question today is, what were your favorite moments or quotes from the book? I had a couple that I thought of here. I got super excited when Con brought Rafe back to the stronghold from the Tukatrial. Like for the first time, we meet the inner circle. We start meeting a bunch of the characters from Con's court or whatever. That was really exciting to me because that was like, it was Con's POV chapter. It was only his second one. So there's a little bit of change in dynamic there. And then we got to meet a bunch of new characters. So that was really fun. Another one that I thought of was the first other chapter toward the beginning where she just literally eviscerates all those guards, incredible action, loved that. Definitely got excited reading through that. So. Well, and it like straight up comes out of nowhere. It is not what's expected at all. Yeah, here's just like, wait a minute. It's just the other. Like what? Yes. The whole concept of those chapters is so unlike anything I've ever read with the added experience of the audiobook. Oh, yeah. So good. For sure. For me, and as a sad as it is, I feel like Essie's whole little story at the beginning is probably what I think about the most when I think about the book, only because it's like the only part that actually made me cry or how quickly I was connected to a character that had so little page time, I guess, up to that point. Yeah. And how, I guess just precious. All of that was in big moment for Raven everything. But I also thought of one like for the podcast in general every time that John called Hawk Hunk still makes me laugh every time. I think about it and calling him Hunk. Good job, John. I just had written the beginning because first starting reading this book like with the prologue, there was a point where I was like, okay, I need to go to like a place that I can strictly focus on this right now because this is a lot of information. And it just kept going through the whole book and I liked that part of it, whereas like always something new with that and then like, yeah, Essie dying and then the other chapter and then the constant travel and new places and new people. It's a lot to take in for sure. I get why I mean question is what's going on, but it was quite a ride. The prologue so cool too. Like that very poetic sort of yeah in the binning. Yeah. It's like that TikTok audio, you know, it's like, save a slice for me. Oh, okay. All right, that's enough. That's enough slices. That's like the information I was getting from the book. Stop. I need to soak it in for a second. Just let me sit. Please make that meme. That's so good. I also had one about Essie. I loved her little specifically her parchment, Lark, to rave at the beginning of the book. It just had the cutest like crazy, bestie vibe and I was so sad that she didn't make it through more of the book because she had so much personality and voice in just a few short pages and I really loved that. Pretty much everything Conveggar said was 10 out of 10 for me and then all of Vea's sassy little sister moments like her calling out Con for the whole sentimental overload that he dumped onto rave and then I don't know. I like started listing something and then I just kept thinking more and more. Well, another question related to it is what plot twist or reveal surprised you the most? I will say rec showing up toward the end of the story there was a pretty big surprise because I guess I just I didn't expect him to have any kind of relationship with like Tyraath or Kaddock and like anyway whatsoever. I thought I considered him more of like some kind of mercenary I guess. Did we get information on that when we first meet him if he was like working for one of them or like working for the crown kind of thing? I don't know but now I want to check. I continue. I feel like maybe we did but I must have forgotten about that because when he showed up. Because that's why he was trying to hunt down rave. Oh he was the bounty hunter for the case. The bounty hunter. Okay. I did. The bounty hunter. How can I forget? You don't remember that? I called him our bounty hunter honey. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I totally forgot about that fact when he shows up at the end. So yeah, that was a big surprise. Yeah. Yep. On my first read back in April, I completely forgot Kizari existed. 100%. Like she happens in chapter 13 and then you don't see her again until like it's revealed but that's their child or whatever at the very end. So 85 chapters. Yeah. And so I completely forgot she existed. Like a concept of her being part of the story at all. Even whenever we get the like prophecy of the child being the one to tie the moons to the sky or what to tether the moons of the sky or whatever the prophecy is at the Tukotrial. Like all the things like never once crossed my mind that she already had a child and let alone that it would be Kizari. So that absolutely blew my mind at the end of my first read. Yeah. Mine is really close to John's honestly. Not only him showing up but getting his own chapter. Like him showing up was one thing but I was like, were we even seeing from his point of view? Yeah. It really threw me out. I wish I wouldn't have spoiled that for myself on accident because I feel like that would have been my answer. I literally said the biggest f-bomb when I saw his name at that time. For me, Arkin was the biggest shock in the best way. I was like so excited to have more information on like Rae's sort of second beginning. And the whole book I was like trying to figure out what that could have possibly been. So I that was like really exciting for me and like really shocking that it was like a whole new character we hadn't met yet but there had been like little ties in with a bunch of the other characters in the book. Yeah. We're gonna move on into a segment of theories and some speculation here. Our first question is what are your top theories for book number two? Well, I think personally that there will be others like Rae in terms of being decalsified and made into something new. Either it has happened to someone else or someone like finds out that it happened to her and purposefully does it to themselves to get whatever she has going on with her you know connection to Slotra we assume. I also think we'll get a lot of page time for other side characters like we did for Vea. I think we're gonna get a lot more of non-raven con chapters. Well, with how she's introduced all these other POVs like literally it feels like nothing's off the table as far as someone's POV. If we're getting freaking Rex R.O.S.P.O.V. The Trog! I probably want a Trog P.O.V. Oh my gosh. Okay, my initial theory, I guess the thing I leave the book worried about. I mean, obviously Kisari is in prison but I'm really worried for Vea being in time. Ty Roth's bed chambers, like that's where we leave her, is sitting on the bed, probably reading this diary entry. So I'm really worried about that. I think in that interaction, we might learn maybe how she lost her memories, especially if it is tied to Ty Roth being the one who's like forced her to forget. Like if he knows about Kizaris being cons, child and all the stuff, and he's just trying to hide all of those things, so I feel like there's gonna be a lot there. I'm really curious if Arkin or the twins being Ty Roth and Ketoth. We'll be the, like, the baddies of this book, the next one, or maybe the other one will be the baddie of book three, like it's somehow gonna be all tied up in there. I'm not convinced Kailas is evil, but maybe simply misunderstood. And Kizaris will help him tether the moons to the sky, whatever that means. And I'm really excited for an epic moment, whereas Lachara finally gives Rave her fire magic, and like, she's like, 'cause she's ready, or whatever that means. Yeah, that's a good one. Ooh. I have also been concerned that something's gonna happen to Vea on her way out of Eritia, like as she's trying to leave where she currently is. I think it will take a while for the truth about Kizaris to get back to Con and Rave, and it will probably happen at different times, and then they'll have to come back to each other somehow. I'm expecting classic villain monologues from Arkin, and I think Con will go full pop of there and kill Arkin, and then I'm hoping that Grim will come back with the biggest dragon, but other than that, I really don't know. I feel like this could go anywhere. Yeah, one of my thoughts that I had here was about Rave hearing all of the elemental songs. I mean, I know right now, like, Slatra is blocking Ignos, but we know that she can hear all four, and we know that Kizaris can speak with Kailas, and we did talk briefly about how the gods kind of seemed to like favor Rave. We've seen that with Claude, for sure, like always even talking to her in some instances, like both Claude and Boulder, there when she got to Dom for Slatra's tomb, and even in the jungle, kind of like helping her along. The whole rain thing is kind of like up in the air, and then we're not really sure what that relationship with Ignos would look like anyway. I'm wondering if there will be something where she will have to like take down Kizaris, if Kailas almost like possesses her or something, because the four gods trapped Kailas, 'cause I think Kailas is gonna be out for revenge against the other gods, and I think I have a little more on that on one of the questions later. And then I think Rave will eventually kill Arkin. I think maybe he'll get Khan and a bad spot, and Khan will like kind of like need saving kind of thing, and then Rave will end up being the one to kill him. I like that. Or I could see Khan offering that kill. Yeah, I could see Khan offering that kill to Rave because Arkin like tortured her for so long and stuff, but he doesn't technically know that yet. - Right, yeah, yeah. Do you also look forward to seeing if Khan ever like fully gets to see the other and like have his, "Oh, what's going on?" And be like, "Oh, ground." (laughing) - Yeah. - That's not a question. - Okay. - That would be interesting. - And if Statura can talk to Reagan, like if they have some sort of kind of conversation and somehow Khan is also part of that, 'cause they're, how-- - Oh, yeah. - What are they? - Start singing a dog and work. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Like that would be an interesting something to go down. - Do we think Ellow and Inslatra are also dog and work, or do you think we would have found that out from the diary entries before she died? - I mean, it's not like she really had the opportunity in her adult life to fly on Slatra, like really connect to that and make like discover that necessarily, 'cause she was either, Slatra was either in the burn and couldn't fly around. And then she was pregnant and she was weak because of ether stone and stuff. So I feel like they probably would have been with how Slatra like basically sacrificed her life for Reif, but I don't think it was actually discovered. - All right, one of the theories that was sent our way is that the other parentheses, Slatra presumably will be in control of Reif for a good part of the second book. What are our thoughts? - I could definitely see this, especially with how it described needing to put Reif in a tomb of ice, like she might not be getting out of that for a while. And I also wonder if that's how Reif will somehow, I guess find out about Ignos, although I'm not really sure how that would work or if the gods could even like reach her that way. But it seems like she's gonna need to like melt or something or like thaw out to get out of there. So how is she gonna do that? - Interesting. - Yeah, that would be, I think that's like a cool concept, but I don't necessarily want her fighting against Slatra, so it's my only thing I don't like about it, but it's a cool idea. - Yeah, I feel like it would be like a necessity thing. Like she needs to like accept Ignos to be able to thaw herself out. - Ooh, that'd be cool. - I wonder if one of the people with dragon sight would be able to like identify whatever's going on, but then I think it would be cool to see Ragan communicate with her if she is, if Slatra is taking over for a while and it's not like she just wakes up and everything's fine. - Especially if we get to like read that conversation. - But yeah, Slatra. - In like the other POV or something. - Yeah, exactly. - So there might three voices in that chapter. - Yeah, through that one. - Well, 'cause we got like that little moment, but that was from Rave's POV and she did not know what the heck was going on. Like the first time that she saw Ragan, there was just some big reaction from Slatra and then she started singing in a language she didn't recognize, so it would be really cool to see that from like a Slatra POV or something or a Khan POV if he like understands more of whatever's happening with Ragan, I don't know. - Maybe she'll thaw out when she finally gives into the fiery passions of love. - Meltzer away out of the eye. - Her burning noise. - Maybe. - I see it. - Yeah, that's what my fire's all about. Love, baby. - Wow. - Let's burn it down. - She has like erupts out of Slatra. I got a fire in my loins. (laughing) - Wow. - Oh my god. - In the middle of a battle the others having. It's like we were doing something else. (laughing) - I think that's it. I think we figured out what to get. - Yeah, I know this. - All right. - There's another theory that was submitted that Khan will find out, Kazari is his daughter from Veya before Reve finds out. And I wrote probably since homegirls the last to find out any information about herself ever as to classic. - Yeah, I think. - She still doesn't know information about herself. - Like she's got a lot to figure out before she's ready to figure out about. - She doesn't know all the information about herself. - Yeah. - I think Khan will be the last to know. - Oh. - He's off doing something and somehow everybody else finds out but him and he like finally comes back to the stronghold or something and he's like, what's going on? And then everybody's like, everybody knows already. - Well, I could see that being a sweet moment. I am kind of excited for him because like he and Kazari seem to have a really good relationship. And like she trusts him. There's already a lot of trust there. I still am wondering if Kazari knows about that because of Kaylis, but I don't know. - Yeah, I don't. - I kinda wonder. - I don't think so. I just kinda wonder if Raeve already know that she has a child just in general. Like it feels like something that yes, you may mentally forget, but I don't know. There's a movie a while ago. I can't remember the title of it, but it was based around aliens stealing this lady's child and erasing her memory of it. Spoiler alert for a movie that I can't name. But the whole premise of it is she keeps finding things like peeling back the wallpaper and there's baby wallpaper behind it. She's like, what's this doing here? And like the crux of the movie comes to like, she remembers having life in her. She doesn't remember the child, but she goes like absolutely crazy on these aliens and saying like, you'll never take away that feeling that I know that I once held life and that's my child or whatever. And I feel like it's one of those things. We're like, she knows in the back of her head that there was at one point a time, but. - No, signs. - Yes, signs. That was it. - Yeah, yeah. - Why was I also thinking that? - I know. - But the reason I wouldn't be okay with that is because in that movie, and I know which movie you're talking about, I just can't think of this title. The lady like fights for this child, even though she doesn't know this child exists. Like technically, it doesn't have the actual facts and Rave is just choosing ignorance. And I feel like I would not like Rave more if she just chose to just ignore that she has a child out there who clearly like would need her for something or if she has an inkling. That's what Khan is trying to tell her about. And she's still choosing to not accept that and just letting that kid be out there in the world. - I was more thinking of it in the sense of like, not knowing for a fact that a kid is out there, but knowing for a fact that that was something that happened at one point in her life, not knowing whether they were alive or dead, but she has like such strong feelings, which like I feel like any caring human would for all the children who are like being tested for, you know, the beads and everything. And she is like adamantly against any of, I mean, like I said, any caring human should care about, especially younger people being tortured in that way. But it was like mentioned over and over again earlier on and I don't know if everyone else is gonna say, but I don't know, yeah, just somewhere in the back of her head. And it's also something that like the body itself does not forget. There has to be some change or shift in the body that she would know, like, "Well, this is not how it's always been." Yeah, okay, I was listening, I found the quote that I was thinking of. I could definitely see that sort of intuition being there, even if she's not consciously like, "Oh, I think I had a child once." Like, I don't think it would be that overt, but there was like, when she met Levy at the beginning of the book, it says she was just like looking at Levy. Stair caught on her hands, now clasping the swell of her belly, a vision that does something strange to my heart makes me feel like it's going to burst and not in a nice way. So I do, I think she's had some of those moments where she's like, "Why do I feel like that?" Yeah, she's really happy. Yeah, I think it happened during the Tukka trial too, and then she does explain that like, she fought really hard for the targ relic in takedown because he was specifically like, keeping those children, yeah, keeping the children hostage and, you know, whatever he was doing to them that was terrible, but that was like something she was really passionate about and like, fought really hard for. For some reason, I guess I connected that to her being in the pits. A pit. Because she wasn't a child when she was down there either. Well, yeah, but still like just the connection that she had done that before, but I guess yeah, the whole children thing, that too. And that might be how she justifies it in her head, and then this is just more of like, a, these little like, inklings, and that maybe when she would not think she likes kids a lot, cares for them. Yeah, yeah, but she also keeps thinking like, everything I love has been taken from me or everything good. So maybe even if she did think at any point like, did this happen to me before or something, she probably thinks that I would assume her first thought would be like, they're not here, like something terrible happened or. Yeah, I don't know. Well, the movie that Kyle was referencing is called the forgotten. It came out 2004. So if you have a scene by now, sorry for the spoilers. It's honestly, it's been the title of "Floce For God's" part. It's a good watch. Like it's not like, you know, you gotta see it, but it's a psychological thriller. My favorite kind of. I enjoy psych. The best kind of thriller. Psychological. The next theory is that Kaelis isn't actually bad. This is 'em is understood. Hard to leagry for now. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I merely agree on the grounds that I don't understand them, and they haven't done anything bad that I know of. So that lines up. Not evil. Just misunderstood. That's fair. I just feel like what happened at the beginning where the moons are falling and they just didn't understand. And so instead of figuring it out, they just trapped him. Like the gods or whatever. Yeah, I just feel like it happened. I mean, who knows what the actual timeline was, but it just felt like a very fast paragraph. They just went to action. And so, try to escape. Yeah. Yeah. So John, you look like you were not agreeing with that. I mean, maybe initially he wasn't bad, but I think this probably sent him off. I get you. Yeah, I don't think he's gonna be a very. I don't think he's very happy. Maybe. I'm still on the fence about that. Because he also, it sounded like from the prologue that all he ever wanted was someone to see him and hear him. And Kizarri, it seems like this is the first person that's ever done that. And it's been 5 million phases since he was trapped. Yeah. But I mean, you can take anybody's want and villainize it just by like exaggerating it. Like if he just wants to be seen in her, then he could be of the mindset of like, I'm gonna make everyone see me and hear me. Like you will, no one's gonna miss out on me. To long time to just be brewing in a crowd, not being able to literally do anything. Yep. Yeah, that's true. And Kizarri is very young and impressionable. Like she could be. Yeah. Very easily manipulated or tricked or something. Especially because she says she's in love with him, that is a little red flaggy. Yeah. He's grooming her. She is like 123, but that's still pretty young for the Faye. I'm just saying. I can't bear to. He's like 5 million. So older than that. It's a little gross, dude. So like in fantasy books, like 400, 500 years is hot, but 5 million is too much. That's a little too much. Where's the line? I feel like there's a 1 or 2 zeros separating your age. You gotta draw the line somewhere. Or 6. I also just put together the other day I was listening to the prologue again. I don't think I really realized like we were joking about the beginning of the book where we were like, why are they acting so surprised that the dragons are like floating up into the sky and like falling back down. Like if they created the species, I don't think I put together that the dragons' lifespans are eternal. They were never supposed to die. So I think that at least may have been why it was surprising. I don't know that they would have necessarily planned a way for them to die or maybe thought that they would die the same way that all the other species on the planet did. But I think I missed that that they were they were supposed to literally live forever and then people started killing them or they would choose to end their own lives by calcifying or whatever. Another theory is that Hayes Perch will fall and Hadeon will be reborn like Raveoy's and he thoughts here. Yeah, I'll go. Man, not really on board with this. I wrote it already happened once. Let's not push it. It's kind of my thoughts on it. I mean Kyle mentioned earlier that he thought maybe other people would end up doing this. But I don't know who I mean obviously we don't know the other stories but it does sound like it's very often that the dragon takes their person up into the moon with them. These just seem to be for whatever reason too instances. But Hadeon didn't seem very mentally well put together before this situation happened to him and I would be worried what he would be like when he came back. I was not thinking Hadeon when I said that I really don't know who it would be but I just feel like it would be interesting to have one more just for like I don't know another other to have it sort of be like a maybe even Rave could see it happening from to someone else from her point of view and be like oh that's what I do when I go into this weird mindset and try to maybe understand what's happening with her more. But yeah I don't know I don't think I'm on board with this for Hadeon specifically but I will say I was going to say because Hadeon was like already killed like he was already dead like they poisoned him or whatever so he was already dead and then his dragon took him up but technically that would have happened to Rave too so yeah she was already dead yeah we don't know like all the details but it she would have had to well somebody would have had to remove the crown from her yeah I feel like she had to have already been she would have been pulsed lists for at least long enough to have the crown removed and then for a slotch or to come in yeah yeah because I feel like that would have been the reason why slotch are like basically smashed and broken to the bedroom suite or whatever to like take her away because she knew what had happened I feel like maybe she's because Rave still alive like if she got to her right before she officially died and that's when she started like breathing life back into her or whatever and she wasn't actually dead dead but maybe she only mostly did wait say that again like maybe she wasn't all the way dead when slot jerk was able to take her and was able to like breathe life back into her yes that's just what I was thinking I yeah maybe but how would the crown have been removed Tyraus the jerk and ripped it off her head or slot or put it on Kizari I don't know just plucked it off with her dragon mouth or maybe maybe if he like stabbed her she just she didn't have like true for a life enough like life force or something and then it was able to be removed because there just wasn't enough life like life force even though she was still technically alive but yeah I kind of like the idea of like she technically wasn't dead when slot jerk took her up and that's how she was able to yeah essentially like mold their life forces together and that's how she's in Rave and that's how she was able to like save her or something I like that idea that's kind of cool yeah yeah I'm here for that yeah it did say something about in one I think was one of the first diary entries that we get the Eloen had seen her mom like trying to pry the crown off of her head and like crying because she was like in pain or something and couldn't do anything to get it off and then Con had said it has to be removed from a pulseless host but yeah maybe maybe it was just weak enough yeah maybe her heart beat slowed just enough I mean what they don't have any other scientific you know like studies on that somebody whose pulse is going out she was most likely gonna die anyway and maybe they were able to take it off at a certain point but also like does the diadem like this does it shape to the wearer or did they have one specifically designed for a baby that they were able to like pop the stone out of raves and stick it into kizaris and like you know what I'm saying that sounds like a magical binding of some words I was like how did they get it off of rave's head and it fit onto baby kizaris one of those adjustable for getting crowns that you can undo and it's sort of like you know you put the tab in whatever level you're at I'm with you I'm gonna put that on our list house Sarah what that crown do correct that please what that crown do - Our next theory is that there are two voices in Raves head as like in the italics for the audiobook readers that they experience this. I don't understand this question. What does this mean? - They're saying that in the other chapter because the audiobook goes back and forth between two different narrators, they're saying there are two different voices in Raves head. So one is Slotra and then there's another one. - Oh, that's not Rave. - Yeah. - That was in like the narration. - So there's like a third. - A third something in her head. - Yes, that's the theory. I don't think I'm on board with this one unless the male voices somehow Kayla's. I really don't think that's the case, but we know Slotra was blocking out Ignos for Rave to protect her and if she bore the ether stone for several phases before she died, like maybe she's still capable of hearing Kayla's, but I feel like it would be, I feel like he's so restricted to the ether stone. I don't know that she'd be able to hear him like after having the crown removed, but other than that, I figured it was just an artistic choice for the audio since it's not conveyed specifically in the writing. Like there's no clear markers for when those voices go back and forth in the way the book is actually written. - Yeah, I just thought it was like the actual narration of the story and then like Slotra probably saying something or thinking something. - Yeah. - Does that make sense? Like the actual like they moved here and did this and then Slotra would be like, because they know they don't have a chance or whatever, you know that kind of a thing? Like, less that it was an actual person, but I mean, I guess the theory's there. - Yeah, it was interesting though, 'cause like I felt like I could never find a clear boundary for when it would make sense for the voices to change. Like I was always surprised by where in the sentence it switched. Yeah, it did seem random. So I do understand what? - Respond to the narration as well. Like it wasn't just. - Yeah, that's true. - But if the beginning prologue voice is like one of the gods saying how the world came to be and Slotra is listening to this god, never rate what she's doing and just talking back to it. - Interesting. - Yeah, I don't know. I can definitely see why that theory exists. - Yeah. - Yeah, same. - I don't know, I kind of want to go back and listen to those chapters again. Good thing I'm rereading this book already. Are you really? - Yeah, I'm making it. - Our next theory submitted is that 'cause Ari will tether the moons to the sky because she can talk with the trapped god, which is Kaelis. I am in like heavy agreement with this, specifically because of the whole collou prophecy and then now knowing that 'cause Ari is that offspring, I could totally see that. - Yep, I agree with that. - Yeah, I'm sure. - Cousify. - Yeah, calcify. - Launch it. - Yes, send it up. - Our next one was why would Tyra allow his daughter to take the oath of chastity? Her bloodline must continue for the etherstone and he knows that they all do. How is this not a big deal? This person asks. I would think that perhaps while the oath of chastity is not good for a bloodline for obvious reasons granted, it is like a very respectable oath to take. And if the king were to stop her from taking a respectable oath, simply for his own lineage or her own lineage, it would be like massively frowned upon. And like all the people would see it as an exertion of his will over that of the gods 'cause she's literally doing this oath to the gods, which I would think most people put above the king, maybe not to the king's face, but in their own heads. But I feel like if he did that, then people would be like, "Whoa, you're overstepping your boundaries." - Yeah, and did Ellowyn do that? Did she take the oath? - I don't think so. - I don't think she did. But Austern was still able to force her to wed Tyraeth. So I would assume that Tyraeth could still just marry what? - Oh, Austern. Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Austern, yeah, yeah. I would assume Tyraeth could still, yeah, no, her parents seemed cool. They were chill. - Yeah, they were super anti-tyraeth. - Yeah, and she was much younger. - We're kind of unnecessary comments. - And Ellowyn was much younger, but Austern was still able to like force that. Obviously he had to kill her family to do it. But I could see Tyraeth, if he was that concerned about the bloodline at some point marrying Kizarri off to someone, maybe he just hasn't found them yet, or maybe Kizarri just keeps running away before he can make that happen. - But. - Our next one, do you think Slotro will come back in her dragon form? Con has been piecing her moon charts back together. Would it be enough to bind her pieces back together? - I don't think so. And my only reason for that is because Rave, right at the end, made a connection with Leary, and seems to have something going with that. And I just, I would think I would feel bad for Leary for her to be like, oh, this other dragon's back by. Like, you know, kind of thing. Like, I just feel like that little mini storyline there just doesn't feel like that makes sense if Slotro was just gonna come back. But, obviously, it could be wrong. Maybe that was just a little mini moment for the moment that it was for her to take care of, wreck, and then move on, you know? - It would be weird for her to have two dragons as well. Like who? - Two dragons! (laughing) - That never happens. - It's ridiculous. - Yeah, I agree. I put, I didn't think so here, especially her being with Slotro being like, quote unquote, part of or inside of Rave already. Like, I feel like if that were to happen, if Slotro were to come back into her body, there would need to be a separation from Rave. That would make the most sense to me. - And I feel like if Slotro really did like, give part of her life to Rave, if Slotro left that would Rave just die, like, are they connected? - Right, that's what I would assume too. Yeah. - Yeah. - It's kind of sad though for Slotro, like I wonder if there's a way that that piece of her can be almost like set free at some point, just so that like, her soul is at rest almost, if that makes sense? - But she, she did it out of love. Like, she, it was her choice. - Yeah, it's true. - I wonder if maybe as Rave pieces together, all of those things, no pun intended that happened. Like as her awareness of Slotro and like acceptance of her grows, if there's a way that they could like, coexist a little bit more rather than just having to shut each other out to like, have control. I could see it being similar to the way that Rave can choose to like, listen to the gods, that maybe she could choose to like, have more direct interactions with Slotro rather than like, shoving her down under this icy lake or something like that. - Yeah. - 'Cause I wasn't that what Brun said that he could help her drain the lake. - Yeah. Whatever that means. - He technically didn't finish the sentence. - Well, John did though. - Yeah, but I did, so it's right. - All right, the next theory, I feel like shouldn't even be mentioned because we've already discussed this fully, but the theory written in was, the other is really Slotro, which we just had a full conversation about. (laughing) That's the fact. So we clearly believe that. Technically, I don't think it said in the book, like the other is Slotro, like in a sentence, but I think we-- - In the glossary. - Yeah. - Slotro. - But I feel like we've given all of our facts and reasons why. - Yeah, I feel like this is pretty calcified. I do hear Sarah say in an interview as well that she also didn't explicitly say, like yes or no, but she did say it's there, like it's in the text. It's not specifically spelled out, but the evidence is there. So I feel like this is as confirmed as it can be. - Yep, I'm great with that. And then the next one is, how does the fate herder or fate herders know who to quote unquote herde? Can they hear the gods too, or are they acting of their own accord? - I just stand by my theory of them doing what they want, and them being masters of fate is just like a simple superstition of those who encounter them. We're like, you know, you would say you encounter when it pushed you this way and be like an old wives' tail, like, oh, well, that must be where you're supposed to go. That's where the thing. - I think they're just pushing whoever stinks the most in their immediate vicinity. - Whoever has like a jerky in their pocket, they keep judging them. - Yeah. - And it really wants me to go this way. - I'm pretty sure it's just one. And because they all freaked out that there was a fate, the fate herder there, like it was the fate herder. But I have, I don't know. I know this part of the book from all my internet research gets a lot of hate because they feel like she maybe wrote herself into a corner, and this was her weird, couple chapters excuse to get out of that with this weird character that just shows up and then never comes back. I don't know that I agree with that moment. Like it's, it's interesting. - It's just not being at all. - Character or thing to add to the world, but it does randomly just show up and then leave. So I don't know. - I feel like if you used it too much, it would feel a lot more like that. Like if it showed up every single time there was a decision to be made and you know someone's like, oh man, am I really supposed to kill this person? And the fate herder shows up and like starts pulling their dagger towards the guy's heart. Like it's a fate herder. Sorry man. And the guy's like, well, no, it's a fate herder. Go ahead, kill me. - Yeah, and it stayed a lot longer than I expected it to. I feel like if it was that she was just in a corner or whatever, it would have been like, oh, this legendary fate herder and it's like one nudge by. But I don't know. She also, yeah, everything feels so intentional. I don't think that that, I don't think I'm on board with that. But and it does say in the glossary under, it just says fate herder, a large silver feline like creature and then it says those who have seen it. - Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like I've always thought it was just one. - Yeah. - My thoughts on that creature will very much depend on if it ever shows up again. If it's just that moment, then I feel like I would err on the side of like, yeah, that was a weird way to get your story moving. But if it shows up and does other things and has like other moments where I'm like, oh, now I understand. Which I feel like there's a lot of things. So far, like a lot of creatures of like, I guess, yeah. Well, a lot of suspension of disbelief, you know, I just gotta go with it. That's the story right now. until I learn more. - Maybe it'll be like Ravencon's wedding and then Raven looks out at the audience and then there's just the Fatehunter appears and just weak satters. - Just like you know what? - It looks like a movie. - Uh-huh. - And it doesn't happen the whole time. - We're like at the end of the series when inevitably they figure out how to tether the moons to the sky. Like it's Kazari 'cause it's the offspring from the prophecy or something. The Fatehunter's just like, yeah. - The hands actually. - The Fatehunter into the sunset. - Told you it was gonna be a crazy day. Wait, it's okay. Goes back to sleep on its nest of fan fiction that it has. - It's an infiction. Like dust it's paws off. - My work here's different. - Our next question is why do you think the scavenger king was kept a secret? - I feel like it maybe is one of two things. One, either Austin didn't know that he had this other child. Maybe he just sleep it around or something happened because it would have been while their mom was still alive, right? So, 'cause I don't think he's the youngest. - I thought he was after Vea, but now I think he's older than Kong. - I think he's older than Kong. That's why he thinks he has a right to the brain. - Yeah, which is interesting. - Yeah. Or maybe it's a similar situation to like Tyraath and Ada where it was just like his mistress who maybe worked at the castle or something. And then maybe the mom ran away to get away or how Tyraath treated Ada to be like, well, it was Vea at the time, but you know how he was talking to. But me, that was Ada and just being like, you think 'cause you're carrying my offspring, you have some right to something and it was like kind of treating her horrible. And so maybe he tried to hide it or she ran away or something like that. I don't know. - Yeah, so he was cast into the botanic plains and told to run while a roar of fire nipped at his heels. - That makes me feel like Austern sent him out. - Yeah. - And he would have been old enough to run. So like, I'm saying just for real, like he wasn't like a baby when he ran off. So he was around for a while. I wonder how many elemental beads he has because I feel like since Kong only could do two, then that wasn't enough. You know, like what if he was one of the ones who like didn't have any or something? And he was a knoll. - Well, he does have a gno's, doesn't he? - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, cause he burns rave. But maybe he's just the one. I don't know. - I had said that my guess is that few to no one knows his true identity. - Yeah. - Except maybe Serim. (Sara sighs) - Ooh. - I'm still onto her with her having seen rave down in the pits. So it's like, okay, why were you down there in the first place? She has to have a bigger part in the-- - I also feel that about the Elding though, and like him collecting all these children and stuff or wherever the safe places that nobody knows. - Oh yeah. Pleasure Island. - Ooh. They're all gonna turn into donkeys. - No. - Oh my god. - Well, who do you think speaking of all these people will be the ultimate big bad of the series? We've named a few potential candidates? - I still think it's the gods. I feel like there's gonna be a war of some kind between them. Like John, I think John was the one that said that Kaelis might want revenge on them or if Kizarri tried to free him that the other four gods would freak out and try and like contain him again or something. I feel like Kaelis has to be the answer to everything, but like no one would listen to him, which would lead me to believe that Kaelis specifically would be the big bad if it were not for Kizarri. If he truly is like in love with her. So I feel like it could be the other four gods who were the ones that like trapped him in the first place and weren't listening. - I think sooner than later Tyrahthan or Kaddock, but long term Kaelis. - Nothing about it. - Like I mentioned earlier. - I could see Arkin being the big bad of Book Two. - Yeah, I don't know what maybe. - But not Book Two, yeah. - I don't think so. I think he'll play a part in Book Two. - I think he might be enemy to ally. - I feel like it'll lead to maybe Tyrahthan and Kaddock. Like maybe he'll get in league with them. I don't know. - What if he gets in league with Khan and then it's like two brothers versus two brothers? - Yeah, that would be very interesting. If he like kind of did the same thing that Rae did, but just like came around a lot sooner. Like she's like, oh, Khan's not a jerk. All right. But I don't know, I don't know. - No, it's four arms. He smells too good. - Arkin's nature doesn't really seem that great. So I wouldn't really expect him to just be like, you know what? Yeah, I'm a good guy now. I'm not gonna torture anybody else. - I don't know how Khan would be able to forgive him for how he treated Rae or Kizari. - Right. - Awesome. - Yeah, so. - Yeah, and I'm looking back through the epilogue now because I was trying to find confirmation if we know like what order the vegor children were born in. I don't think it says. I don't think it explicitly says. No, I mean, I wouldn't show you the order of their birth only because he branches off in a different direction. I don't think it says it just says that he has plans for Khan vegor who took Arkin's revenge for himself. And I think he means like in killing Austin. Like I think Arkin was the one who wanted to kill Austin because Austin would have banished him. - I get the vibe that it's, that it's Cadak Tyraath Khan. - No, Khan's oldest, isn't he? And the only reason he didn't get hers, 'cause he has two elemental beads. - Cadak and Tyraath are twins. - Tyra twins, I forget. - On the tree it does say Khan veya, no, yeah. - Yeah, so it's an honor to provide a certain order. - That's not an order. - Yeah. - Veya would be last because their mother died giving birth to her. So I had assumed this whole time that Arkin would have been younger than Veya because Austin would have wanted to secure another air that he felt was suitable of ruling the burn because he thought that Khan wasn't fit to be king because he was only a dual peed. - Oh yeah, I agree. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So that was my thought, but I saw somewhere in a theory or something that Arkin was older than Khan. But I guess we don't really have a way of knowing that at this point in time. - Yeah, right. So. - I was just saying. - We'll say something that you said and your answer to this Khan got me thinking, 'cause Kaelis is the god of like the void, right? If I'm remembering right. - Yeah. - It's going to be crazy. All of the noils are people who are meant to hear him but they just can't hear him yet because he's stuck. And as soon as he's released all of a sudden, all of the noils have this void ability, whatever that they can do 'cause they can finally hear who they were always meant to. - That's cool. - And even people who can hear others songs, they can be like, oh, I hear a new one now. And there maybe a two-beade becomes a three or something. - How'd it go? - That blew my mind. I love that. - Kaelis is fine. - I don't know what you said to my mind but I was like, oh, wait a minute. - Interesting. - But then I don't know why I guess it was just be this tone that made Kizarra the special one that was able to hear him regardless of him being trapped. - Right. - He does use right there. - Well, I wonder if Kizarra can hear, do we have any context for which other god she can hear? - I don't think so. - 'Cause I wonder if she can hear all of them. - I don't think she has her whatever. - Oh yeah, I guess that's true. - 'Cause with the diary entries, Ellowyn tried and tried and tried to hear any of the gods and she couldn't hear any of them. And then as soon as she, was it as soon as she bonded with Slatra or as soon as she bore the crown that none of the creators would shut up? - Slatra. - I think she was born to hear Slatra. - That's it. - 'Cause she was singing a song to her. - Yeah. - And that started in and all of a sudden she could just hear and they wouldn't shed the air. - Okay, I thought it was the crown, but maybe that is a, but it wouldn't always be a dragon thing, right? Because I feel like they test people when they're so young, like kids. - But it could come later in life, I would assume. Like they just started a young HD, catches many as they can. - And 'cause Ari has a dragon. - Mm-hmm. Kyle, who do you think will be the ultimate big bad of the series? - I just wrote a joke. This is what it says, it just says me, bitches. (laughing) - He's Britney Bitch. (laughing) - All right, we're gonna be moving into some character theories or rather just some character thoughts, I guess. Our first one, whose are favorite character and why? - This was hard to pick, but I do think Vaya is sort of like a hidden gem with what Lily got of her. She was real good. - Yeah, I wrote that Pyrocamine me laugh the most, probably like a silly side character. Vaya is BA, so. - She is. - Okay. - Yeah. - I wrote the trogg. - Of course she did. - A joke, can I admit to come back to this? (laughing) - Don't, it's not a joke, don't say that, be honest. - Yes. - I love her. - I love her. - You're already ahead. - Yeah. - Spin me a web. - Out of your palm holes. - Yeah. - Let's discuss. - I just wrote Khan because he's hot. - Oh, that's fair, yeah. I would say Khan is probably my favorite, but I really love Vaya too and I'm really enjoying her POV. Hope she's okay. - The next question was, what character would you want to be stuck on a deserted island with and why? And then it says parentheses, think lost vibes. So like, could you name it? - Like the lost island? - List, lots of, and I think the show. - Yeah, that might change my answer if it's that specific kind. Not just like a random tropical island, but. - I would say Khan for all of the options. reasons but also because Ragan would probably be there as well and he could theoretically just fly us off the deserted island if we needed him to. Nice. I wrote Claude that sassy little whisp. It's like it'd be a fun god to be stuck with on the island and sort of in the same vein just make a little raft put some wind in the sail here. And you would never be like super hot and sweaty she just have a nice voice all the time. I just wrote vea because she's hot. Next valid also fair. I wrote con because he would do everything and he'd keep me safe in a live and I could just lay back and relax and he'd feed me. I drink your coconut. Exactly. In my hammock that he made. Yeah. Our next question is one that I'm really excited to hear the answer to we did talk about it a little bit in our episodes but the question is how many red flags did Kyle find in our beloved con aside from the usual red flags that are to be expected it seems like being violent being okay with the capitating people he doesn't like and swearing. They're honestly isn't that many. He's patient kind caring never forced her to do anything his way except maybe you soap and also never forced himself on her. Quite the opposite my boy was begging for scraps. The one thing I've heard people talk about is that he used sex to chorus rave into agreeing to a deal by way of withholding her orgasm until she agreed to which I say okay. Rave also used sex adjacent activities multiple times to get her way with him. It's not black. And yeah I'm not let me fin let me fin from riding on a dragon to all these other like teasing activities not saying it makes it wholly okay for either of them but they're still on like level playing ground. In fact neither of them used it for anything life altering like some other book couples I could name. They used it for like literally what it is like a tease not about to have a full-on counsel session about this but used in moderation. It's part of a healthy relationship between adults probably land somewhere between four-play and kingplay so I mean a yellow flag maybe they've been warned but are still good to play. Someday I'll regret making that sports analogy because that's not my wheelhouse but still both Conan Rae's ledgers some of the lightest I've held in a while. Like is that the if he that Lauren talked to me about that where she's like a lot of people don't like how he did this third A even I was like I mean she's done I mean they're they're going tattat with each other they're doing the same activity. Concentrally I might add with each other. True. Because she could have just gotten up and left at any moment she could have been like absolutely like he's the consent king I feel like he would have just if she truly was not on board he would have it would have been fine. Yeah I think so. I think your emotions about this character are coming in the way of you dishing out red flags compared to your emotions no feelings about other characters from other books that you've just decided you don't like. No I didn't like I honestly to be fair wasn't truly looking through my first read I was just trying to read and then during like the second one I was trying to with my segment in mind I was like I got to find a flag or two and it's like oh I can't really do it. Also this might make a lot of people angry but for either gender in that activity they don't they're you're not owed anything out of it there's not like a you have to give me this or it doesn't count as a good activity so saying that he withheld it for a conversation he can't really withhold it if it's not something that is like it better happen. Lauren what are your red flags you look like you're holding onto a lot of your red flags. About my husband right now no I'm just kidding. Well let me pull out my journal. No I feel like I've just held back in general on this whole series and episode and all the things and that's okay this it just just book was not for me so there's a lot that I'm just choosing to stay positive about the book that I did enjoy and what I did like and I don't have to just trash on the book the whole time and that's okay. It was a very hard story to understand and like she has said before some aspects of it like I don't think either of us would have been like oh man we got to like finish this book or whatever when we're reading alone it's always more fun and like getting it the second time through learning a lot of things we didn't know before we both loved the world building and everything and all the characters in it. Yeah but yeah it's I would agree it's not like a book that I would say was for me it just so happened to be a book that I didn't find very many red flags and even. Well even the person I was talking to today about DNFing I encourage them to get through chapter 15 and listen to the first podcast episode see if that helps you understand it more like I'm not like anti this book in general I'm not going to go around telling no one to read it like because I understand that a lot of people including you guys did enjoy this book and that's okay it's just yeah it's also one of those like the world building is so good I do want to give the second book a try because I really really want it to like lock into like an amazing epic story with how Lauren was saying like it's in a typical story right now with no big bad or anything or any major battles and I sort of want it to move into that area it's just too good of a world to let go but the story itself I'd love to read more about the world even if it's a different story but we can move on to the next question. Well no it is interesting though because I was talking to somebody about this the other day too because a lot of the time like I at least from the last like official update that I had seen last year this was planned to be a trilogy I don't know if that's changed or not and that's something we can ask Sarah about but a lot of the time with a trilogy the complaint is that the second book is not good because it's all set up for the end of the series like the first book really grabs you and then the second book always sucks and then the third book is great because they're resolving everything and sometimes the second book feels like it could have been an email I thought that's happened to me before too but I feel like with this one she spent a lot of the first book setting up the next two there's so much set up in this first book and you're piecing together a lot of information there's a lot of like reveals about where we are now that I think the story can really take off for the next two books and not have that same lull that a lot of trilogies do so I think it'll be really interesting to see what she does with book too yeah I feel like in terms of world building yes she has built an amazing world with this first book and I hear a lot of things too about like books or book series where people are like that was a pretty okay series like I really enjoyed some things about it but the fan fiction oh my gosh they took it in ran with it have you seen this other stories people are making and I feel like this could be one of those where it's like people fall in love with the world and make their own stories in it and you're like oh my gosh and someone writes a fan fiction on it and gets it turns it into their own book or something but because it is such a varied world like there's so much stuff I don't think that even anyone could cover the whole world in a series even like if you're it's her book she's not gonna cover everything in it I don't think but is there more to cons character does he have secrets we don't know about yet specifically why was he in that CD bar in chapter one wasn't for a moonshard or something sketchy to answer that question drugly I think he was looking for rook here yeah remind the listeners who rook is yeah he was the I forget his the creature's name he was the the feline the whole picture oh whoa tell the whoa tell yeah in the cell next to rave and that's when yeah who had the moon chart that's what I think he was he at this point maybe he had probably heard that he had a moon chart and so he was looking for him I buy it yeah yeah we're looking for whoever his master was yeah yeah I definitely don't think that the moon shards are like searching for those or anything are like sketchy I don't think that that was like a weird adventure for him or whatever but I there has to be something more to con other than just being really good looking like he has I want to see a lot more something from him I I'm he does have a looking for more he does have a lot of scars that we don't know anything about yet he's like covered in scars and we know nothing about it I just just think they came crazy to get trials or something along those not maybe to get trials but like fighting with the clan the Joe cool clay yeah but well he was part of the clan I think I thought for a really long time before he even met Eloen right but there was a moment where she said that in like any of her flashbacks of him he didn't have any of those scars and now he does so yeah because he happened like since she died yeah because he like went away for a couple weeks and came back with his melmer so it was like sometime around the same time that he was with them oh that's like when he joined I kind of feel like that makes sense because he would have got his melmer but then at some point he was the king of the Joe cool clan yeah that's true so like he would have obviously had to fight his way to that position to a certain extent and maybe even like fought to keep that position because they seem to be very like primal in that way that they have to like fight to be alpha kind of energy but yeah I'm not saying like it couldn't be other things too just yeah it seems like there's more to that because don't they like nullify them while they're fighting in that clan but I think a lot of his scars were burn scars. Not to say that they couldn't have fire in the pits, but I thought they were burns like on his thighs and like his hands and stuff that looked intentional or something. I didn't get that they were all like burn scars. I mean yeah, she clearly said that the ones like on his legs were. I just assumed that they were all other just like kind of random scars. I also would think that Austin didn't go down without a fight. So it could be true. Some sort of you know something from that battle. Very true. Yeah. Yeah, there could have been a lot there. Do you think he's a end game? Yes. For me he is. Maybe not for rave. I asked that question with no predisposition on my opinion. I was just wondering if you thought he was. I think it would be a lot of the old switcheroo in these sorts of series. I don't know only because rave is so still against everything and he will take whatever. I mean, I we all say that he's consent king, but like he still has not taken her leave me the heck alone too hard. But at some point if he does listen to her and I leave her alone. Leave me the heck alone. Let's make out. No, let's have sex. No, maybe we should maybe we should part ways forever and I'll forget that you exist. I will say okay, now that we're mentioning that in lorins defense, the whole like well that's not what you said when you were drunk. I'm like that's not that you can't just throw that in people's face. That's not exactly you can't take what people say when they are drunk and be like, no, you said it. It's true. Fair. All right. Our next question. What happened to Grim? Is he actually arkin in disguise? What? Your face. My my my reaction to this was what kind of question is this? Is he arkin in disguise? Like what? No. No, I just think Grim is off to get a little baby dragon and I'll be back soon and arkin in disguise literally never crossed my mind. That would be wild. Maybe I could see maybe someone thinking that just because Grim had just disappeared and then we get the epilogue. But the timelines wouldn't have matched up for that at all because the the epilogue would have happened much earlier in the book. Wasn't Grim getting like real close and friendly with a way. Yeah. Yeah. So that would be kind of that would be as well. Well, and he was arkin was apparently banished. So he it wouldn't be someone who's been part of the burn for a long time. It's like just randomly after Austin had died and then Grim just showed up to all of a sudden be the second hand man. Like if there was other stuff like that, I would be maybe more just like he's dead. My vanishments over. I don't know about that one. All right. The next one just asked for us to pick our favorite side character and my favorite side characters are the same as my favorite character characters, which are pirate and vea. My favorite side character was s e r i p. I want to say slatja or vea, but they both get their own POV. So I don't know if they count as side characters, but they're not I guess I wouldn't fully call them main characters. So I'm just going to say pyroch because he's hot. Malit. Honestly, I don't really have one. I feel like we haven't like solidified the intercort characters enough yet. It's just basically been rave and con the entire time. I don't know. Rigen, maybe. I was also going to save vea. I didn't know of having a POV put them out of the running for a side character. I mean, she's really only there for the last third quarter of the book. Yeah, it's pretty late in the book. They are still, I guess. Yeah, I'm a fan. All right. What kind of character arcs could you see coming in books two and three? I could see Kazari and Grim possibly or at least having their own POV chapters. Yeah. Even if it's not the whole book, I guess the question is arcs specifically, but I don't know. I envision Kazari definitely. I feel like we could get Grim's story in Gondra. I think that would be cool. Yeah, that would be cool. And then it would like, it would end with some kind of like kind of cliffhanger. And then like several chapters would go by and then they'd be in a battle or something and they're like, yeah, they would think the great silver saber side is attacking them and they see like Grim on top of it or something and they're like, oh my god. Yeah. I'll calcify that. I'll fully on board with that. I said that I just like to see a mind with get involved POV style. Like I think a perspective from someone who has that ability or like maybe one of the characters has it already and they're hiding it somehow. I mean, new character comes along with it. I just feel like having that perspective would be really cool for them to just be like talking to people and like if they tagged what the other person was saying with like they lied because they just know that they're lying out right. They don't have to wonder at all. I think it'd be funny to read something like that. I like that. Yeah, I feel like with the openness of like other characters having POV chapters, I feel like there could be a lot of different stuff we see. Like we could even get Grim getting his dragon or wherever else that they really take us. We could jump back to Serim or like who knows? Like we could be all over the place. But I would just really like to see Rave come out of this weird in between life of I'm Rave, but I refuse to learn about my past like either accept that and like move and do the things and you're Rave fully and we're doing something as a decision as Rave that still affects the story somehow. Or you learn the information and you make decisions based off of that whether or not those end up being the same decision like of whatever action they decide to take either way or I don't know, but I just would love to see that conversation that we never got to have between Conan Rave finally happened and then Rave make decisions based off of all the information that she could have I guess. Yeah, I think it will. I could see that happening in book two of like her finally getting all the information and moving forward from there. It feels like a lot of it has been a lot of that development with her character of accepting her past has been contingent upon like her actually obtaining all of the information. So I have confidence once we get there it will change. But I could see Pyroc being forced to step up and take care of the burn while everyone's inevitably gone for a while because like everyone else has kind of left at this point and Pyroc I think the last we saw of him was that he was Con had tasked him with taking the mind-weft to like a safe location or something. But since they all like act like he doesn't do anything I could see him maybe having to step up and like do some stuff while people are gone. I would expect to get more vea's backstory and maybe see her soften a little bit but I love that she's a total badass and I think she will continue to be that way but I think I could see with like this information about Kazari and stuff feeling a little bit closer and more compassionate for some of those people. I do hope that grim comes back with the great Silver Saber's Eyes. I think a lot of Kazari's story I could see being reserved for book three just because we have a lot to resolve before we fully get to like a Kazari and Kayla's situation. Arcan I could see just being like purely evil until someone kills him. I don't know that we would we would get much of an arc with Arcan ironically. But everyone else just kind of feels like a wild card to me. There's a lot that's like up in the air but I am excited to see Leary heel and bond with Rae and see more of that little storyline play out too. I don't know. Well out of all those people which character would you love to have as a co-host on the podcast? Kazari so she can spill all the tea. Kayla's has been holding on to for millions of faces. It's a good one. Thank you. I know it's gotta be Pyroc right? I mean he's your he's your the we guess your entertainer of sorts. You just want someone to snack with on the podcast. You could snack with Rae if she loves snacks. I did put Rae just because she tells it like it is. I feel like I would appreciate that energy. I wrote Veia because I just love her first of all but she also is one that just kind of tells of what tells it like it is. Oh yeah there's you know she just puts it all out there in the best way. I mean I'm not taking it back. I'm sorry. I said what I said. Which relationships do you want to see developed more in book two? The easy choice is con and Rae because I feel like we're still stuck in sort of phase one of that relationship. No pun intended. I fear that Lauren saying he's too perfect though. And like with the lack of knowledge on both sides about Kisari that we're ripe for a big old miscommunication trope. I replied to that and wrote as ripe as an avocata. An avocata. Thanks. Yeah I feel like we have a lot of like hints at relationships and flirty looks or a sassy comment here and there but nothing that's like I don't know anything confirmed or fully developed even with Ravencon even though they've had some bigger hey interactions. So I think all of them I would love to see all the relationship speed developed. Fair. Yes. I would love to see more. Well I'd love to see more of the inner circle relationships as a whole not necessarily that I think because they're already developed but we've just met those characters so I'm excited to like get to know all of them more. I really want Rae and Kisari to meet. I have no idea what that development would look like but I would hope that it's like a really positive like forward moving thing for both of them. Same for Kisari and Kahn they have a relationship already but I assume that it will change once Kahn does go full-time. pop of their own. 'Cause, all right, assuming she makes it out of Arkansas torture chamber in one piece, I'm sure she will, but. - I would love to see all the bromance's Connipy Rock, Grimm and Rowan's a dude, right? - Yes. - I'd even settle for the cringe twins as a buildup to their terribleness so that heavy be the hand of literary retribution. You know what I mean? Yeah. I wrote, write them Sarah. Write the bromance's. - Yes. - Oh, that. - All right, well that takes us to our rankings and wrap up for this series, which is wild. Can you rank all of the books slash series that you've covered on the podcast so far, John? - No. - My first comment here was, whatever you read. - Oh my gosh. - Oh my gosh. - But, uh. - I was gonna say the guy. - The throne of glass would probably be my one. It would be the throne of glass, quick silver, fourth wing. - No, no, sorry. Throne of glass, quick silver, when the moon hatched, fourth wing. - Oh. - Oh. - Oh. - Yes. - Oh, oh, oh. - Kyle? - I'm not probably, but I have no idea right now. I feel so uncomfortable ranking some of them 'cause they are incomplete. - Yeah, most of them are. - Yeah. - Are you answering, Con? - I don't know, I hate these questions. Some of them, I don't know that I even have a definitive answer because my first experience reading, throne of glass and fourth wing were off the podcast. And then I would say, like the quick silver episodes have been my favorite to record. Like we had so much fun with those. I feel like those have been my favorite episodes that we've done on the podcast. - Yeah, is that our favorite record? - But when the moon hatched-- - Your favorite recording. - Well, yeah, see, I feel like that would change it. 'Cause when the moon hatched has been my favorite reading experience on and off the pot, I feel like, but quick silver, I love the book so much. And they were such great episodes to record. So I don't know, I don't have an answer. I'm taking a call out. - Well, I actually answered, shout out to me. High five myself. I put fourth wing as my first, but I also just love the series of fourth wing. I have a bajillion copies of the books and Con and I have some fun memories of our Iron Flame trip and all the things like that. So I think it just has a special place in my heart. I freaking love quick silver with everything and my person and Kingfisher is everything. And then I really loved Throne of Glass. I think I would have loved it, like die hard, even more if I was able to just read it all really, really fast. So this is the only reason it's like third for all of my Throne of Glass die hard fans and then surprise, surprise, when the moon hatched is last. (laughs) - All right, next question. Can we get an updated book boyfriend ranking from everyone? - I've never given one of these. I don't think I've ever actually made one. So I still don't feel like I could rank them. So I just listed a bunch of my favorites I could think of as they came to mind. So this is a no particular order. Some of my bookboyfriends are Hunt Athalar, Hudson Vega, Zaden Ryerson, Kale Westfall, Cassie and Kingfisher. - You're right. - So I just have to giggle when I think of them. - This is so funny 'cause I feel like half of these would not be on mine, but I also didn't type one out for this. - Yeah. - But you did have one last time. - I did, I typed one for Quicksilver. Yeah. I don't know. This is also an unfair question. I wanna hear John's answer to this question. - Okay. First time ranking these, by the way. And these are more of an order, but also just, I'm trying to think if I would have any more on my list, I don't really know. Anyway, resand and con kind of like, I mean pretty much there. - One cheek in the bench. - Yeah, they're one cheek in the bench at the top. - Yeah. - Next is Hunt Athalar, then Cassian, then Ethan Holstrom. - Hot tape. - Hot tape. - Wow. Okay. - Then Dorian and Zaden. - Nice. - That's kind of all I can think of. - I'm okay with almost all of your list, except for the Ethan one, but that's okay. (laughing) - Kyle. - Interesting. - I forgot about this question, but thinking of it right now, I'm just gonna go to reverse order of what we've covered. I don't know if I have one for this book, necessarily like one that I was like, oh yeah, that's a book boyfriend for me. Most of them, not my style. Oh, I can't remember his name even though from Quicksilver. - Carian? - Karian? - No. - No, his second. Kingfisher's second. - For Arthur Runfist? - Yes. - Oh, Runfist. - There you go. Yeah, John, you know me too well. (laughing) From fourth week, I'm gonna go with Sawyer. I have a Sawspot for Sawyer. - Oh yeah. - And then from Throne of Glass, always a Dorian Stan. I like kale, but not as, but not my book boyfriend. And, - He's probably his book boyfriend. - That's okay. - I'll say, stay with me on this, but like Sandra, she can be a boyfriend if she wanted to be. - I'm here for that. That's great. - I mean, you guys can have a picture of - I love that. - Girlfriends, I guess. We could have asked for that. - I'm not putting that. - Yeah, you can definitely do that. - I didn't put Kingfisher in there. - I know. - We know yours is Manon, Kyle. - Manon, yeah, would be one of them for sure. - Carl. - Carl. - As a boyfriend? - Yeah, I guess. We don't cover such a color car. - Yeah, but still, I have boys that we didn't cover. - Oh, that's true. - That's fair. Yeah, okay, so John's through Carl on there. He's got some strong book boyfriend. - Yeah. - He's got nice, strong standards. Does that one nice feet? - I would put Laura in there too. So I have a robot. - Laura comes adding to his list right now. - Slightly. - Because I think in additions. - I had written in Kingfisher. I think I put him in there. - Yeah, I'm adding runfists. How did I forget runfists? - How did you? - How did you? - He'll remember that. You forgot him. I left him off the list. - Maybe he'll keep talking. - I feel like I don't forget. - Yeah, let me know all you want as long as that accent keeps coming. - That accent. - That accent. - I think I'm similar to John in that resanding Con would definitely be at the top. Hunt is not in my list. - You know what I'm saying? (laughing) - Wait, hold on. (laughing) - Oh my gosh. I'm not a Hunt girlie, so Hunt would not be on my list, but it's probably pretty much. - I am a heredemic girlie. - It's probably pretty much the same as my list for Quicksilver, which I guess I could probably pull up on here 'cause I just haven't opened. Yeah, it's right here. - Well, let me just read you my list and we'll just add in Con in the top spot with resand. So one would be resand slash Con. Two Dorian, three Carian, four Kingfisher, five Luther, six Azreal, although I think after finishing Spark of the Everflame, I might flip flop and do Azreal, fifth, Luther, sixth only because I just really love Az and I feel like he'll shoot up the list once we get his book. Riddick, seven, Max Antares, Farleyone, eight, Cassian, nine, and Roondan and ten, but then I was already struggling with that because I feel like Roond shouldn't be in the tenth spot, but. - Yeah, you should. (laughs) - John was never very impressed with Roondan. - What did he do? Tell me what he did. - Exactly, you can't. - He had a big sword. He did, just saying. - He did. - They all do, okay. Nothing new. - That's what I was saying about who doesn't. Far from the course and these looks, man. (laughs) - That's funny. - All right, you can go ahead and go. - Well, without spoilers, if possible, which podcast book, so specific to the ones we covered, has had your favorite villain? - Mm, I don't wanna give any spoilers, so I will say I think the villain introduced an era fire is still my favorite. - Nice. - Cow? - I sort of enjoy the shifting villain in the Imperium series. Like for each book, it was a different person that they were joining up against. - Mm-hmm. - My favorite podcast villain is the Vampires, if you can even call him that. Just 'cause that like, it's the best. - I said probably Throne of Glass, but not the same one that Connor said. Mine was a more like love to hate kind of thing. Love to hate this villain. Yeah, the Weasel. - No Weasel. - Why so 10? - And our next one, if you had to pick one podcast book to reread immediately, which would it be? - Which one is the shortest? (laughs) - It's probably one of the third of last books. - The last one you don't wanna do. - Dang it. Actually, I think it's Throne of Glass or Crown of Midnight would be technically the shortest. - I'm very much not a rereader type of person by free will, so. - Oh, mine is Quicksilver immediately because Brimstone's gearin' up and I'm ready for that reread. - I am too. I am currently rereading when the moon hatched for content purposes, but I am very excited to start my reread of Quicksilver, especially the closer that we get to the release of Brimstone, so excited. - And I was probably gonna say when the moon hatched. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Re-readin' with me right now. (laughs) - Right away. Catch up. All right, the last question. What are you most looking forward to in the ballot of falling dragons? I wrote that I'm really excited to learn who the antagonist is in the story and see maybe how our heroes overcome that together instead of, I say fighting against each other, but more maybe just like Raeves' refusal to learn the stuff makes it feel like they're not on the same side right now for Con and Raeves specifically. So like some sort of everyone coming together against some antagonist or some of them. big Bab and Goldsort. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I said, "Dwagon's falling." "Dwagon's falling to the sky." I mean, I feel like maybe something to do with the Great Flirt, because that seems to be I mean, very fun as an able-op, but maybe the new generation of dragons will have a part to play. A good point. Ooh. I mean, something like that. That's fun. I want more action stuff like the first other chapter, the Tukatrial with Con and Honk. Like, more of that, more of it, and of course more chest pounding. Thanks, Kyle. We're off to a great start. That was seven. That was seven from Kyle to John just now. I didn't take that to be the chest pounding they were giving to each other. I feel like it was like, I was not very rhythmic. But still, I'm seven for me. Unheard of on this podcast. Unheard of. For me, I am really intrigued by everyone being separated at the start of book two, because I think all of our own characters are going to have their own little adventures for a while. Potentially good and bad. But once they reunite, kind of like Lauren said, I'm like, I'm looking forward to the relationships deepening and then like seeing them fight together. I think we'll be really cool. Most of all, I'm excited to learn more about Arkane, which I assume will be lots of book two and then the gods, which I assume would be more of book three. I will take all the little marsels I can get in the meantime. You would say a little marsels you trogg lover. We should just be more like that. Go eat a chair. Well, next week, we're going to be meeting with the one, the only Sarah, a Parker to bring our own questions and some of yours to her and sort of discuss this book and maybe that coming book and all the things happening in her world as an author. If you would like to join us on discord, we will have spoiler free and spoiler full channels as always to talk with like minded folks about this episode. Any other series you've covered. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, tick tock for exclusive content behind the scenes, podcast news, and merch announcements as well. Yes, head on over to between pages and friends.com for Patreon perks and to sign up for our news letter for all news and things happening at between pages and friends. Till then stay wordy, stay nerdy. Don't stress and stay blessed. I'm about to buy that. Get out of here. You trogg lovers. Hey, you troggers. We said chair. Say bye. You're a trogg. You chair, jumper.