When Parents Can't See Their Kids After Divorce

She spent a very long period of time separated from her children. No contact. A lot of people call that parental alienation. She's here to tell her story and what she's doing about it on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show, we are joined by special guest, talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes. Plus, those have experienced Rinnis Trauma, police, first responders, military, and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John Jay Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, L-E-T-Radio.com and also, like us on Facebook, search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. There's a couple ways you can stay in touch and keep informed of what's going on in the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Number one, go to our website, L-E-T-Radio.com, sign up for our email news. That's really easy to find. I promise we don't spame you. I sent out about one email every two weeks or so. And there's also a feature called broadcast channels on our Facebook page, where we send messages directly to your inbox, directly to your messenger. We'll ease this on up for. Make sure you like or follow the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page. And I'm talking to see broadcast channels. One for free, broadcast versions, the radio show, and the other one, top posts of the day. So you too can stay informed, quickly, easily, and best of all. Like always, free. Joining us from Great State of Missouri, we have Haley Straw on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Haley, well, I'll let her tell her story in a moment. She's gone through parental alienation. That's a term that a lot of people use, but it's really her story that matters, which means she's been not not been able to contact or see her children. She's written a series of books called Tales of an Amish Taxi Driver. And Haley's here to tell her story in the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Haley, thanks so much for being guests. Very much appreciated. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. And by the way, I grew up in Amish country and saw the Maryland, spent many of my years in St. Mary's and Charles County, Maryland. And we're very familiar with the Amish people. Great way of life, and just like every other second of population, I guess, are really good people and some not so good people. And I'm sure you got plenty of those stories. And for those who don't know, I'm also divorced. I'm a parent of two daughters now in their 30s. They live in Buffalo, New York and South Buffalo. Great people. We have a great relationship, but it wasn't always like that. It was very difficult. So Haley, number one, how many kids are we talking about? And what are their ages? I have six children. My oldest is 24. My youngest is 12. And they have, I have relationships with some of them, not all of them. Okay, gotcha. So we're going to use a term parental alienation loosely. And however it fits, people can fit it. But what's unique is your story. And listen, I tell a friend of mine, I'm a tire police. And one of the things that people need to understand, this is from my own experience. Also experience in Florida, Maryland, and as a police officer, divorces and child custody are civil arrangements. You can have court orders, and unless you take that person to court and spend that money, you're not going to get anywhere. And even if the court says they got to do this, chances are, you're not going to get very far. So remember this, child custody and divorces are civil matters. And it's not a whole lot to lock myself included. Police can do about it. Is that been your experience? Yes, I appreciate that perspective. Yeah. How long were you married or how long were you with this person that is a parent or a co-parent of the children? We were married for 22 years. That's a long time. Look, look, I'm not here to cast this person. 22 years being married is no small accomplishment. Having six children, I'm probably the five, is no small accomplishment. My wife comes from a family of nine children. It's a different deal when you start getting into, I think above five, it really changes. One of the things that happens with, I don't like to turn parental alienation when it comes to this, is certain times the children are not allowed to be in contact with the parent because the parent's behavior is detrimental. Is that the case for you? It's my behavior that's your mental you mean, Laura? To you or your loved ones. My behavior has not been detrimental now. Okay, and I'm asking that, and I don't mean that in a negative way. A lot of people throw that around and say, for example, if you have a parent who has a chronic alcohol and drug problem and they're blocking out and they're cursing and they're doing all kinds of violent stuff, you don't want your kids being exposed to that. So yeah, we get that, but that's not the case for you. Correct. Okay, how long have you and your ex been separated and divorced? November 2018, the divorce was final. And when's the last time you had a serious relationship with any of your children? I have serious relationships with my youngest daughter is the closest to me. She was five when all of this went down. My oldest daughter, she, the last contact I had with her, had the request of another woman who intruded up on my family when our family was falling apart. She actually wanted to marry my husband from the time we moved to Missouri. She was our neighbor one house away, divorced mother of seven, and she wanted to marry my husband. And I was married to him. Now we are more men. Okay, but we do not practice filigamy. Don't even get me started on that sister because I'll be honest with you. I watch these TV shows. My wife actually does sister wives on the stuff. I'm thinking, man, I got one wife and she's mad at me for a long period of time. And I don't know why. And could you imagine having seven or eight wives and them all being mad at you and not having any idea why? Yeah, there are definitely problems with filigamy. But yeah, I won't go into that either because I have my own opinions that don't agree with the church. And she wanted more of them. And she once we were separated and I had, one of us had to leave. I just want to make that clear when you have a divorce, somebody has to leave. Okay, and I was driving the homage because my husband was struggling to provide for us and we had this big family. And either he didn't have a job or he was working really close and he could provide more stability. So I felt like it was best if he keeps the six kids in his home while I figure out where I'm going to go and keep traveling with the homage to provide for myself. That seems pretty little headed. Doesn't seem irrational. Nothing about that seems crazy. Okay, well, it was used against me. This woman took over and they locked me out of the house when I was going over there and tending to the children if I wasn't driving on this. I was cleaning cooking, doing all those mothering things. Right. And she had taken over. She had let her and she was unkind to my children. And she convinced my ex hasn't to put a lock on the door. And one time I went over and my oldest daughter, that's where we're going with this, she. She was told to physically assault me when I wanted to get in the home and do those things that I had been doing. Right. As we were separated and reorganizing our family life. So my daughter physically assaulted me, my oldest. And that was last time I have seen or had any contact with my oldest daughter. She's 24 now, married, living in Kansas. I was not supposed to even find any of that out. Here's the thing when a domestic violence of any type, whether it be children, whether it's parents, parents, against each other, it doesn't matter. It's horrible. And we used to get calls non-stop for family speeds. And the whole family be involved in arguing and he said and who struck John and who did. And it was never. there was never any winners in that. When you say that you were physically assaulted, Haley, let's. how bad were the injuries? No, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I keep in mind I'm a Mormon and we have very conservative ideas. And she just physically attacked me and just shoved me out of the house. And at the request of this woman who was trying to take over. And that was it. It wasn't bad. And she was 17 and I don't blame her. Things were falling apart. She was responding. Look, I get that part. Here's a man asking you a point of question. The father of the children, you think that they would get involved and say, "No, no, don't do that. That's not appropriate behavior." You would think, "I don't want to say anything bad about him." I will say though that he. he wasn't ever a person to stand up and to defend anything. Just the easiest way is what he's comfortable with. So he didn't involve himself in that. So how many years this is in 2018 when you got separated and divorced? Correct. And you've got a relationship with some of the kids, but not all the kids in her sixth total. Correct. How long has it been since you've had a serious conversation with at least one of the ones you don't talk to at all? My son, he's the next one down, he's 22. He served a Mormon mission. He returned last August. And before he served that mission, he had cut me off. He did go to Hawaii with us. He wanted to do that. So he talked to me for that. And we were attending a private school. We were always homeschooled. And we were involved in this private school. We're going to be sure we're breaking down that note. We'll return the conversation. We're talking with Haley Strong. She's all through the series of books called Tales of an Amish Taxi Driver just to a blue search. You'll find it. This law enforcement talk ratio don't find it worse. We'll be right back. There are more than 700 free podcast episodes of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Episodes are converted to a free podcast after airing on radio. You're bound to find a podcast episode that suits you at L-E-T-Radio.com. That's L-E-T-Radio.com. The Turner conversation with Haley Strong, the law enforcement talk ratio. Haley, well, this just put it bluntly. She's been alienated from her children for years. And she's author of the book or series of books, Tales of an Amish Taxi Driver. And she's located in Missouri. And I don't know how to say this, Haley. This is a really, really difficult conversation. And here's what people told me. We had a lot of hostility in my divorce and separation. We tried really hard to make a work. It was obviously wasn't. I could only take responsibility from my part. I can't talk about her part of it because it does no good. But one of the things that I had that people told me over time was no matter what she did with the children, and she's by the way she was a great mother, what she did with the children, I was never ever to put them in the middle of us, never to attack her, never to fend myself. I just let them judge by my behavior. And that's the only thing that that helped me. And by the way I called every Wednesday, I wrote the cards, whether they answered the phone or not. Eventually they started to and we developed a good relationship. Sounds like that's part of where you're at with some of your children, but not all of them. What did you started from point one? Can you go through the whole process of what you've experienced? Okay. I have experienced separation from my children and pain greater than I ever thought. We have a saying in Mormon land, and it was by David McKay, who was the Mormon prophet. I think back in the 50s. And I internalized this growing up. It was drilled hardcore into my head and it's the saying is no success compensates for failure in the home. So while raising my children while home, birthing my homeschooling, while really intentionally raising my children, even to the point where I'm like, okay, I have these children. What character traits do I want them to have? What skills do I want them to have when they leave the home? I created a very structured, not rigidly, but environment because I had a purpose in raising these children with these values and skills that I wanted to instill in them so that they could be successful adults. Because I took that internally, it was very true. That was my most important job. Hard work. It threw me for a look when my children counseled me from their lives. And when they attacked me verbally and hated me. It's hard not to take that personal. I don't know the way not to. Yeah. And I got asked this. The question, my mind was when I was going through the really bad days myself was, what did I do deserve this? What happened? That's the most important thing in my life for my children. Yeah, mind to. And I know what happened with me. Part of it. I believe that when you fix it on something and when you think about something that thoughts are very powerful. And that the first thing before an action happens is a thought. Right. So I had thought, because we have struggled, we got married way too young. Okay. And we had struggled. I think a lot of our background being raised Mormon contributed to a lot of the struggles we had in our life that I'm not going to go into. But our marriage was bad before we moved to Missouri. Right. And I promised myself that I would never divorce because my mom left when I was two. And that trauma is still with me today. And I did not want to hurt my children. We'll make a mental note of that because sometimes the childhood traumas can resurface when we least expect it. Look, I get old. I'm and I'm not Mormon. I don't I can't speak for that. I'm Irish Catholic. By the way, I always tell people, you know, Hollywood stereotypical police officer. That's me. I'm an Irish Catholic knuckle dragon knee into the hall. I'm totally okay with that. If people, in by the way, I'll be the 85 year old guy pushing to a walker down the hallway. The old folks, I'm like, there's five. Oh, because I look like a cop. I act like a cop. And I'm not embarrassed about it. So I don't know what it's like to grow Mormon. But I do know and understand the concept of commitment, the concept of being apparent, the concept of I'm going to instill in them. And my job is not to be their friend, but is to make sure that they're qualified as adults to live their life. I get all that. Good. Yeah. That's what you had talked about how your ex life, you know, you saw your, are you communicated with your children on a regular basis? And you're not going to badmouth her. Have you heard of Mel Robbins? Oh, yeah. Okay. And her, her catchphrase, right? Just let them. So I've had to learn that lesson. And it's the hardest thing in the world for me. I'm very much a type A personality. I like to have things in control. I like to know what's going on. Very strong personality, just like you. And that's been the hardest thing for me is just to let my children be where they're at, to let my ex husband and his current wife continue their behavior toward drawing my children away from me and whatever that involves. You must have in your mind some hopes and thoughts and prayers that someday they will snap out of this and say, I want to reconnect your mom. Forgive me for crying. Yeah. I would cry. Look, I'll be honest with you. Hey, I'd be crying all time. I couldn't do this interview. I left clothes and usually I say, I miss clothes, but we're not talking on this today. Bob Marley has said everyone is going to hurt you. You just have to find the ones we're suffering for. And my children are we're suffering for. So I do suffer. And how I get through that is journaling before each of my six children were born. I started journals for them documenting my experience being pregnant with them, my experience bringing them into the world, raising them as children. If my or as babies, if my children want to know anything about their lives, like I literally have hundreds of pages of journals. And that is how I communicate with my children, even though they can't hear me right now, is I journal if I have something I want to share, if I have a hope or dream. I want to write something about how I've screwed up and I'm asking them forgiveness. I journal it sounds a lot like I call them one way conversations. My dad passed away like 37 years ago from cancer and now the conversations are very much one way that I have with him. He can't talk back obviously, but. When I was a kid, I didn't listen. I thought I knew everything, especially as a teenager and my dad was certainly not a hips like cool kind of guy. But he's older you get you realize how flawed that line of thinking is, at least it was for me. And. Here's what I tell people, we're going to break a moment when I tell people is he died of terminal lung cancer. And the last two years of his life, we got to spend time together, building relationship that we wanted that we enjoyed. So and I talk to friends. What do I do? I don't know to do my dad's not cool. And by the way, I'm not either, but they're like, do what he wants to do. Brainiac. You're so smart to figure this out. Just shut up and show for the ride. That's what I did. We're talking with Haley strong and she's been alienated from the children for many years. She's a Missouri. She's one of the author. She's the author of the series of books, tales of an homage taxi driver, which we'll talk about a little bit later on. You can find us on Facebook. Look for and like the long forceman talk radio show Facebook page. This long forceman talk, ready to show. We're talking more about parental alienation, her story and how she gets through with it and what she's doing about it today. Don't point it where we'll be right back. From loneliness to a fulfilling intimate relationship. Shot at love the book offers insights, life lessons and a lot of comedy. Get a copy of Shot at Love for all those looking for love and striking out written by Kerry Brett, a celebrity photographer and podcaster in Boston. This book will have readers crying, laughing and learning what to do. Get it at shot at lovebook.com. Shot at lovebook.com. That's shot at lovebook.com. Are you turning 65 or stuck with a Medicare plan that just isn't cutting it? We make Medicare decisions and maximum coverage simple. Whether you're enrolling for the first time or looking for a better plan, our experts will help. Call 866-427-1225-866-427-1225 or visit lehthealthy.com lehtalthy.com to learn more. Return of conversation with Haley straw on a law enforcement talk, creative show. Haley is a really interesting story and I hate to say this is one that's not unique. This happens every day across America. We have marriages that that are in South for whatever reason. They have children and by the way this reason doesn't always mean domestic violence doesn't mean drug or alcohol addiction or anything. There's divorce and then there's child custody, child visitation and she's been alienated from at least two of her six children for many many years. Let's talk about the two that you don't have relationship Haley and when did that start? With my oldest daughter who's now 24 that started before the divorce was finalized and with my son, who's 22 at the same time. So how many years has that been about? 28 years. It's been quite a while and so of the the remainder of four you have some relationship with? Yes, my youngest nothing ever changed. She was just five and I've had a very solid relationship with her. And by the way, my daughters in their inner 30s that we laugh about a lot of things. They're both in her mid 30s and always tell people, man, they are South Buffalo Irish Catholic girls and they're not the ones you want to mess with. But there were there were times that were difficulty. We had a lot of difficulty as a parent and I don't say this in a negative way as the absentee father who was not there. It was many years for they could come visit and and I'm not here to say negatives about anybody but when they did. That's when I had to be on the best behavior and that's the tough part because my emotions getting the way. Is that been is that a fair assessment for you? It is. This has been a learning experience. It seems like our most difficult child are also greatest learning experiences. So you can say that again. Yeah, I learned more about myself and I learn. And not to be religious. I learned the patience of Joe by learn a lot of things from those experiences and and I got to say this DNA. They were not raised near me, but they're both just like me and sometimes the things they do that irritate me is same things that I do not always but sometimes. But here what I was getting at is even though it's very upset very, very emotional upset about a lot of things are going on. I felt I had to muzzle it and not show my daughters that when they were younger. Do you feel that way sometimes? Yes, I agree with you and I'm not a good one to keep in my mouth. Join the club. I've had to learn that and something new we haven't mentioned is that there are many times where I was who saw the one I felt like the whole divorce was my fault. And a lot of that talk was going around. That's what my children believed. That's what my husband believed. And so I was very successful for a long time. And once in a while those feelings will creep back in and it's been hard for me to dismiss them. I hear you 100% is what we said earlier in conversation. It's awfully hard not to internalize this stuff. By the way, when my police career started going bad, I got hurt and was retired. And I always say that when things were busy, I knew what to do. I knew my role was very good with all the trauma, all the bloodshed. It's when things got quiet when I was retired that the issues came up. And one of the big issues was I became alienated from my spouse and my daughters and they were the three most important people to me. And I couldn't help but internalize that was a fair for them. No, was a fair for me. Absolutely not. Would you describe it any the way? No, I agree with you. And there's I'm very studious and I read a lot and write a lot as I've said and I came across this little saying and it's where there's life. There's hope. Well, I've always been alive and my children have been always been alive. Right. So there's always hope. And that's what I held on to when I was in those darkest moments is that that where there's life. There's hope. I talked about and by the way, I agree 100% and going back to what you said earlier, I have a big mouth. And one of the biggest lessons I've learned in life is developing a pause switch where I don't say anything because I tend to start with you did this, you did that. And then I get aggressive and it is and another thing and another thing and you know, I'm trying to take back my words because it's not helping my cause. And my cause with the children was I want to you best parent I can and not to show them the emotional side of me, but that emotional side is part of who I am. Right. Another person I read a lot of Steven or Kavi and he says, you know, begin with the end in mind. And so in every interaction with my children or with my ex husband, I always want to keep the end in mind, which is happy, healthy, well-adjusted, functioning children who know their love and who can change the world. So before I think or speak or act, try to keep that in mind so that it comes from a place of love and building up something tells me you're better at that than I am. Yeah, I don't know about that. The reason I say that is I tend to be more of an aggressive person as the older I get, I trend, I'm learning and I have been for 30 years to be more assertive and less aggressive. And I always jokingly say this, what happens for me, Haley is I don't say anything until I get angry. Then when I get angry, no one wants to hear because I'm yelling. If I say it calmly beforehand, before I get angry, then they listen, then things change. And the problem with the children and not seeing them is we've said it many times is conversation. I don't know how even to say not to take a personal. So something that I taught my children when they were younger, we had these scriptures we would memorize and these things from famous people and poems, these values I wanted my children to internalize. One of the things was self control is strength, right thought is mastery and calmness is power. So that's been a mantra that we've had not found me for a long time because I hope that my children and myself internalize it because I will be a lot smoother. So let me ask you this and you're right about that. I don't have any of those things that you talked about. I have more than I used to, but I'm not where I want to be. And this is something that's remind myself of all the time and maybe you're at the same spot I am, Haley, I don't know is that, you know, I'm not the person I want to be yet. But I thank God I'm not the guy I used to be and the guy was not a bad guy. I don't want anyone to walk or they may hate you here to say, no, I wasn't a bad guy, but I wasn't the guy I wanted to be. And I'm just grateful I'm making progress. Is that a good explanation for you? No, I appreciate you sharing that so much. And as my world has changed and the family dynamics have changed something that I constantly remind myself when it's easy for me to fall apart or to get into those kind of self-harming suicidal thoughts is that I, okay, here's a mantra. I live my life the way I want my children to live their lives. I am the person that I want my children to become. So I try to keep that focus so that I stay positive because even though our children may have cut us off or are in a different place in their life, they still look to us. Like you said, you had mentioned something about that. I wish I could remember what it was, but the connection that we have with our children. We just want I was as Jordan made that I want to be an example and there's an old saying that we live a better sermon with our life than with our lips. And people can take the religious aspect that all they want, but it's really important how I conduct myself. And before we go to break, here's something that personally that I'm sure you relate to. That I can be the best person in the world away from home, but if I don't treat my wife and children, the way that I want to be treated, I'm hardly a success. I can't claim success in life or business or anywhere else. If I am a, you know what at home. So that's where it matters the most and that's where the real work is. And unfortunately for people like me, that's where the real emotions can be. We're talking with Haley straw. She's been alienated from children for years. And she is author of a series of books called Tales of an Amish taxi driver. Do a Google search. You will find it. There's long for some talk. Let's talk with a show. Don't panic. We'll be right back. If you do any business on social media, creating content is one thing. The trick is how do you turn those people that comment on your social media into consumers. It's a great tool and you can get more information at L. E T pops dot com. That's L E T P O P S dot com. Best of all, you can start it for free. L E T pops dot com. Check it out today from loneliness to a fulfilling intimate relationship. SHOT AT LOVE THE BOOK, OFFERS INSIDES, LIFE LECENS AND A LOT OF COMETY. GET A COMPY of SHOT AT LOVE for all those looking for love and striking out. Ritten by Carrie Brett, a celebrity photographer and podcaster in Boston, this book will have readers crying, laughing and learning what to do. GET IT AT SHOT AT LOVE BOOK.COM, SHOT AT LOVE BOOK.COM. THAT'S SHOT AT LOVE BOOK.COM. Pay off medical bills. Cover living expenses or simply enjoy a little more freedom. If you are over 70, you can turn your life insurance policy into cash. Call 866-480-4252-866-480-4252. Again, that's 866-480-4252 or visit letsavings.com. That's letsavings.com. To see if you qualify. Return to conversation with Haley Strong and the Law Enforcement Talk Reddit shows she's a Missouri. I never had to say that right. She's a Missouri. I'm not native to here, so I can't speak to that. It's always been Missouri as long as I know. I can never. So she's also author of the book's tales of an homage taxi driver, which we will talk about in a few moments. We capping Haley's story very quickly in 2018. She separated, got divorced from her spouse, had six children, and the two older she's been alienated from. She's got no relationship with them. The four younger ones, she has some. So let's start with there. And I know Haley, for me, it's, I focus on what I don't have more than what I do have. So you've got a relationship with four of your children. Is that where you want them to be? Does relationships, are you happy with that? I'm grateful for what I have. There is always room for improvement. Yeah, that's a very polite, diplomatic way of saying it, which I don't have a lot of, by the way, if you couldn't tell. What I'm getting at is, is it? I want to fix the situation. That's a key word for me is fix. I want to fix a situation with the two oldest ones. And I'm sorry, but I feel like I'd be fixated on that and what I don't have and not appreciating the relationship with the other four. Do you find yourself often fixating on how to fix that? The first few years I did, as I've matured and as I've studied more and as I reflect that on what I've taught my children about agency. Mormons are very big about agency and allowing people to make their own choices and being there when they're ready for you. So that's the approach that I've taken as much as it is difficult for me. Right. And by the way, how old is the oldest when you last had contact? She was 17. So you missed out on a lot of things? I have missed. Yes. Last year she got married and none of my siblings, none of my children were supposed to tell me. I found out through another relative who I'm not going to disclose, but yes, a lot has happened. When this wedding was being planned, did you feel like I should be there? So her stepmom was the mother at the wedding. She was on the announcement and the hardest thing about this for me, one of the hardest things has been that my ex has been did remarry, which is great. They're a wonderful match for each other, but that she has taken that role of mothering the children that I want to mother. Here's my wife, her name is Stephanie. I call her the boss and she let them know that she's Stephanie. And if you want to call her stepmom, you can call her stepmom. If you want to call her mom, you can call her mom. That doesn't really matter. She's going to be the same person either way. They had their own relationship and I had to let that grow. But when we had the wedding, I'm thinking as a police now, could you imagine a wedding going on and some spouse not being part of it, not the parent that took not being part of it and the police getting involved? That's what I thought of. Man, how did you not react badly and honestly badly? How did you not react and get involved in that situation? So in order for change to really take effect, true lasting change, which is what I want me children to do, right? I want them to come back to me. There has to be a change of heart and the only way for a change of heart to happen is for me to be loving and to be behaving well and for them to come to the realization and to want to change. No amount of forcing is going to change their hearts. It's just going to push them away from me and I refuse to do that. Many years, a lot more mature than I am. I'll be honest, I'm still like I'm talking to my aunt, my Gandhi over here. You're being way too generous. And we have a, and here's another thing and we are very like mantras, you like quotes, but one of the things that I tell people, Tom and really I tell myself this all the time is don't judge me by my worst moments. If you judge me by my bad moments, you're going to have a bad perception of who I am as an individual. And there's, there's some good in the worst of us and some bad in the best of us. So I always carried that in police work and I carry that through life now. And one of the hardest things I had to learn to do is at my daughters now, their adults, their inner mid thirties is learn to shut my mouth when I don't agree with them. I've had to learn that too. In fact, recently my son, my youngest son, he was put into public school by his dad and his dad mom and that goes against our divorce decree. But like as you said in the beginning, right? It's a civil agreement. It's really not a lot you can do. No. Right. And they were hiding it from me and telling the children to let an on and on anyway. But I have to, I have to step back and I have to develop a relationship with him and understand him. I can't go in there like a bull in the China cabinet. Right. That's going to damage things even more. So I want to change gears a little bit. And you said you journal, you write a lot of things and you written a series of books called Tales of an Amish taxi driver. Are those based off fiction or is that based off your real life or you a taxi driver for the Amish? I am. I'm taking a break right now to right full time. And yes, they are all true stories about the Amish. Many people have this romanticized view of the Amish. And when I moved out here and I got to know the Amish, I learned that they are human just like the rest of us. That's one thing when we were going to grocery store and there would be Amish people there. And we always jokingly say you don't want to be around them in the summertime. But there were great, some great people and some not so great people. And even then they had some really good traits and some negative traits and we always had to keep their balance. Remember we talked about you can't judge me by my worst moment. They'd be giving an accurate presentation of me and then there's some good in the worst of us and some bad in the best of us. True. And I think that society focuses on judging the Amish by only their best moments and their idealized and put on this pedestal. We had mutual friend on the show Long Combo, Lizzie Hershberger. She's a former Amish and she went through her own troubles and tribulations in trauma growing up in that lifestyle. But here's the thing about it. And by the way, just go to letrata.com and look up Lizzie Hershberger. You'll find it. And she's written some books but she spent I think it was 30 years getting some justice. And what I take from that, Haley is that no matter what we're going through today, no matter how bad it may be, there's always a light at the end of tunnel and be what am I willing to do to change it? Correct. Yeah. There's an Amish taxi driver. And by the way, I have visions of the old movie taxi driver. It's not like that, is it? I don't know why that movie is. You don't know you're talking to me. Hey, you're talking to me. You must be talking to me. You don't know all that stuff. It's a long story. It goes back to days of day after day and all that. So the late 70s, it was an interesting movie. When you categorize your life, tales of an Amish taxi driver, what is the most bizarre thing that most people would not understand from what you do? The most is that, well, first off, some of them think I'm actually driving. I'm a buggy. I don't have a different taxi. And the most bizarre thing, maybe that the Amish travel nonstop, they are always going somewhere and they're always up to something and they're always trying to do something. That was, I think that's the most bizarre thing because people picture them this quiet, ideal, like nothing ever happens. They live in the little communities. They drive their little buggy. That's not true. That's not true. And by the way, they do use electricity at certain times, especially on job sites. And when I worked at a radio station in Southern Maryland, after a job, they'd light class of rock. They listened quite a bit. They didn't call me, but they would recognize my voice and the grocery store. They say, hey, you're the guy on 977, the rocket, aren't you? I mean, yeah, that's me. Hailey, are you where you want to be yet? Or are you still working progress? Well, I'm a work in progress. Just like, and I hope you keep working after we're dead. I don't know. Yeah, by the way, and what they say is, and I wish I could take credit for this issues. You got other issues to deal with, but issues are like tissues, like that certain brand and tissue paper. You pull one out and you deal with it. And there's no one magically right behind it. They pop up left and right and we all have issues. Hailey, how could people find your book, tells them an Amish taxi driver? It's on Amazon and I'm on Facebook driving the Amish on TikTok and I need to get a site up. I have been either software developer and surely you could make me a site. Well, soon as you get a website, even with launching coming soon, send me the URL, so I'm putting it shown us. Hailey, thanks so much for being guests and long force and talk, Richel. Very much appreciate it. Yeah, this is fun. Do you want to be guests and long force and talk, Richel? And podcast, it's really quite simple. And before you get into this notion that I'm not a cop, I wasn't a cop. I don't have something contribute. Well, the show is about investigating crime. That's one aspect of it from the real life perspective of those who did it. And then it's also about trauma, how trauma impacted them, often crime based, but not always. Our guests quite often are long force and officers, other first responders, military, victims of crime, their spouses or survivors talking about how trauma impacted them, what happened, how it affected their lives and how they rebuilt their lives after. If you want to be a guest, just contact me. It's really simple. Send email to Jay, a Y at let radio.com. That's Jay, a Y at let radio.com. We're going to let radio.com and the contact us page. And you can get me right there as well. I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the long force and talk radio show. The long force and talk radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM and FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more failure stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the long force and talk radio show and podcast. Until then, this is John Jay Wiley. See ya.