When Life-Changing Experiences Bring People Together (Steph guests on Thanks for Asking)

What's it take to be a mentor with big brothers big sisters? It takes 30 minutes and a cup of coffee, a video game, best two out of three. It takes sharing thumbs up emojis, clapping emojis, and loaded nachos at halftime. That's how you make an impact on a young kid's life. So go on, share a few hours a month because mentorship may sound huge, but the truth is it takes little to be big. To learn more, volunteer or donate, go to bebignow.org. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com. So let's see, let me orient this to time. About nine years ago, I got an email from my mother and she was like, hey, I submitted our story to this podcast, Terrible Things for Asking, that I had told her about. I was like, hey, I know that you love hearing about all kinds of trauma and tragedy. So you should listen to this show because it's amazing. And it's also really funny. And I think you'd really like it. She did like it. And then she sent an email to the show and told them all about my brother Harris and how he had died of a heroin overdose and how her life was essentially a pile of rotten garbage now. And they, you know, ate it up and asked her to come on the show. She then emails me and says, you need to come on with me. And I don't know how to say no to my mother. So I did. And it kind of ended up to be the most consequential yes that I have ever given because I went on the show with my mom. And that's the episode you're going to hear today is that first episode with me and my mom on Terrible Things for Asking, hosted by Nora McInerney, now dear friend. That was the first time I had met her. And we did that episode. And it was everything that you want out of a podcast guesting experience. We were talking about really hard things. But Nora is the funniest person that you'll ever meet. And so it was like a totally pleasurable experience. Cut to a few months later when the episode airs. And it's absolutely beautiful because there's no one better in the biz than Nora McInerney and her team. It comes out. And the episode airs. And it's absolutely beautiful because there's no one This woman in Minneapolis, which was totally across the country from where I lived at the time, listened to the episode. She saved it for her birthday. She knew it was about a sister who had lost a brother to an opioid overdose. And she had lost her brother Stefano the same way a few months earlier. So she wanted to hear somebody talk about that. She wanted to feel seen in the way that you do when you listen to great podcast episodes. And so she tuned in. In describing what it felt like to hear the episode, she said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't hear the episode. Jess said, I swear to God, it was the first time I felt joy. The first time I was able to acknowledge that this is just how life is. People die. And sometimes your brother dies of a heroin overdose. And you can sit in the studio with your mom and be on the other side of going through the shit storm that I was in and laugh again and celebrate that person, in your case, Harris. So I just had this moment of like, OK, I think I can live through this. This didn't just happen to me. It happened to someone else. Anyway, after that experience, Jess basically stalked me and long story short, tracked me down, pitched me an idea to do a show about the opioid crisis that turned into this show that you are listening to right now called Last Day and eventually turned into an entire media company called Lemonada Media, which is the company that we co-founded and that is still going strong today, even stronger, some might say. And it's all about the show. Because we went on this episode of Terrible Thanks for Asking that I am going to play for you right now. It's one of my favorite things I've ever heard, actually. And typically it sits behind a paywall, but it is out in the open now for you to hear on the Last Day feed. And thanks to the crew over at Thanks for Asking for sharing this with us. And I am excited to run it for you. So enjoy. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Thanks for Asking, a call-in show about what matters to you. Most friendships start because you have something in common. You share a specific experience. You're at the same place at the same time. You have the same sense of humor. You just get each other. And there are some friendships that start because the experience that you share is one that is not great. And the place you're in at the same time is not great. And the sense of humor that you share is one that some people don't get because they have not had that experience. They have not been to that place. And that is why you just get each other. That's how my friendship with Steph Whittleswax started nine years ago. It started when her mother reached out to me after the first season of the podcast to say that she wanted to talk about losing her son to an opioid overdose. And could her daughter, Steph, join her? Today, Steph is the CEO of Lemonada Media, and she's also the author of the book, Last Day, How to Stop Losing Our Loved Ones to the Opioid Crisis. She has spent the last decade having conversations about this very topic on her podcast, Last Day, and she will be back on this podcast in the coming weeks to have these conversations with you. So I want you to listen to this episode. This is my first conversation with Steph and her as a form of time travel. If you're in it right now, this will feel familiar to you. If you were in it, this will feel familiar to you. And if you have never been in it, count yourself lucky. This is Steph and her mother, of course, fresh off of this loss, trying to figure out how they will move forward. And if you have been affected by the opioid crisis yourself, and at this point, who has not been, Steph and I, we're going to talk about how to stop losing our loved ones to want to talk to you about it on this show. So call or text 568-4441. If you would rather write an email and have us read it, that's thanks at feelingsand.co. Both of those are always in our show notes slash episode description, but let's time travel. A quick warning that this episode contains references to drug abuse, plus some strong evidence. So if you have any questions, please feel free to ask them in the comments below. And if you have any questions, please feel free to ask them in the comments below. Here we go. All right. So I'm opening up Twitter, twitter.com. I wonder what vibe I carry when I walk into a room. Lord, I hope it's chill. This is so funny and dumb. Okay. Wow. Just learned that Kenny Loggins Wow. Just learned that Kenny Loggins got his name because he has a hard time remembering his Gmail password. Wow. This is some very wild rice. Very, very wild rice. Oh my God. I don't know if there's anything more annoying than listen to somebody else laugh about something that is way more funny to them. But that was good. That felt good for me. That was very important. I needed that. Okay. I needed that much laughter. I'm Nora McInerney, and I want to formally apologize for the fact that I can't read funny things without giggling. It is very annoying for everyone who knows me personally, and I can only imagine how grating it is if you don't know me. But those tweets I was reading, they are funny. And they were written by this guy. What's up? I'm Harris. I have my cousin Jason's truck for two more weeks. I have one testicle, whack-a-mole accident, and I'm down to clown. That is Harris Whittles playing a version of himself named Harris the Animal Control Guy in the NBC show Parks and Recreation, which also starred Amy Poehler and Rob Lowe, which was memorized by basically everybody in my household. At Parks and Rec, Harris started out as a writer and eventually became a writer. an executive producer by the time he was 30. So Harris was mega successful at his job, at a really cool job. And he had famous friends. He had everything that he had dreamed of having when he grew up. And then he died of a heroin overdose. Okay, it's really hard to talk about someone who is famous and struggled with addiction because you run the risk of sounding like an episode of an E! True Hollywood Story or a VH1 behind the music. Basically, it all tends to come across as really sensational and melodramatic and honestly, just like a little insincere. And I don't want to do that because it always feels to me when I hear things like that, that the message is people who have it all aren't supposed to have troubles. Not when they've achieved so much. But it's not like success of any kind, it's not like anything at all can insulate you from just being a human. And Harris got to do work that he loved. His entire life, he was obsessed with comedy. And then he got to do it for a living. This is his friend and his fellow podcaster, Scott. He had probably the quickest rise to professional prominence of anyone I've ever seen in the entertainment industry. It was really annoying, actually. But he was just that good at what he did. Even though there are so many headlines about heroin and opioids and that epidemic and people are dying every day from these addictions, heroin overdose still seems like the kind of thing that can't happen when you're from a nice family in Houston and your mom was a school teacher and you and your sister were theater kids and you're smart and loved and you have everything going for you. But of course, that's not true. That's what happened to Harris. And it happens to other people, too, no matter how nice they are or how smart they are or who their family is. Here's Harris's mother, Maureen, and his big sister, Steph. Our house growing up was crazy. There were not a lot of boundaries in my home, and we were all kind of free-spirited. He was a very, very funny child, very loving child. I remember in middle school walking down the hall with him, and he actually held my hand. Which was a huge thing in middle school. He just wasn't embarrassed, and we had a lot of love between us. So, yeah, he was unique. Very, very unique. Steph? That was great, Mom. Yeah, I want to add that he did used to put a toothbrush in his butt and then draw a face on his butt. You're not going to find this on the Internet and do scenes with the toothbrush in the butt. And we thought that was fine. So, that sort of sums up what kind of house we lived in. Oh, my gosh. Did you talk about drugs as a family? That's a good question. You know, my kids were such self-starters that. Honestly, we never really worried about that with them. That was something that just didn't come up, because they were good kids. And I come to find out maybe not so true. Yeah, we did drugs. Yeah, but. We did them together. But they just carried on as, you know, the perfect students, all that stuff. So, it was. I don't know. Maybe I wish I had talked about it more. I don't know. It was just sort of this, like, fun recreational thing. And I always say, like, I turned out fine. I don't know if that was, like, a predictor of things to come. I don't know. And you just never know who is going to be fine with that stuff and, you know, who isn't. And I don't know, like, you know, for my family, like, we have a family history of alcoholism. So, likely, you know, you probably shouldn't be a McInerney. And get drunk, because you're going to love it a little too much. Yeah, and see, we don't have any of that in our family. I mean, I think the bigger predictor with Harris is that he was an extremist. Yeah. And everything was done to the extreme. Food. Cigarettes. Cigarettes. Concerts. You know, when you would go to a restaurant with Harris, ordering was like this marathon event. He would order everything. He would order everything off the menu and then tell everybody that they would share it and then take, like, two bites and then take the rest home and leftovers and then eat them at three in the morning. He would, like, binge on TV before you could binge on TV. I mean, I remember getting the Freaks and Geeks box set when he was, when we were in high school or whatever. And he sat down at, like, four o'clock in the afternoon and then we were still sitting there at six in the morning watching it all, you know. So, everything was always done to the maximum. He had an addictive personality. In a big way. It seems like maybe it's almost that same addictive personality that made him so successful. Yes. Absolutely. Harris went, as soon as he turned 18 and could get into the comedy clubs legally, went every single Monday to do an open mic. He binged on whatever comedy content he could find, whether it was, like, movies or specials or, you know, whatever. And he did an internship in L.A. for a semester at the end of his college career at Comedy Central. And all of the executives would come to the intern to be like, is this funny or not funny? Like, he had this comedy encyclopedia in his brain. He did. And so, I think you're totally right, Nora. I think that his excessive, extremist kind of personality is totally what made him successful. Harris had gone from that internship to a job at the Sarah Silverman program and then all the way to Parks and Recreation. And he was doing great. One of the shitty things of having someone die of something like heroin is people asking, um, so were there any signs? Like, basically, they're asking if you consider it your fault. And that's not what I asked his family because it's not their fault. And because things are rarely so clear to us when we're talking about the people we love. But Maureen had started to notice a difference. In her son. Everything was going great for him professionally. But something was starting to change. Harris's family was still in Houston. But it was hard not to see the difference when they would go visit him in Los Angeles. You know, he wouldn't take us, you know, to see things in L.A., which normal people do. We would just end up literally sitting in his house watching TV. And maybe going out for a meal. And this is how the weekend went. We knew at this point that he was on pills. We knew that he was struggling with it and that he was on and off Suboxone and that he was going to therapy and that he was trying to kind of deal with this on his own, which is so unbelievably naive that we thought that would be something that could happen. Yes. But the crazy thing is that professionally he was, like, just climbing. It was like he was always able to compartmentalize. He was able to compartmentalize his addiction. Highly functional. Highly functional. And was able to be totally personable and funny and charming and the same Harris that everybody knew and loved to everyone else. Yeah. And I always rationalized it like he's so tired. Having, like, a staff writing job at a network television show is a great excuse for a drug addict because he was busy. And he was working 18-hour days. Yeah. And so when he's around his family, he just shuts down. And we love him unconditionally. And so that's going to be fine. But we were in L.A. at one point and he had taken a nap and the remote control to his TV wasn't working. And I guess my dad had been using it. And he woke up and, like, flew off the handle about it. Flipped. And was like, I had to get people out here to fix this. And what is wrong with you? I mean, just, like, it was. It was so insane. I was like, Harris, he, like, wiped your ass when you were a baby. Like, shut up. You were being such a dick. Yeah. You know? Like, what is your problem? You are such a fucking asshole. I mean, we were just screaming at each other and over the stupid stuff. But we don't relate to each other that way. And I remember after that trip, I sent him an email, like, about how sad I was that he was acting this way. And how I missed my brother and wanted him back. And that this guy sucked. You know? I hate this guy. We felt the same way. And we finally just said, we're not going to go anymore. If he wants to come home and, you know, unwind and see us and love us, that's great. And those times became so few. He stopped. I mean, we just stopped seeing each other. So, yeah, Harris is on pills, but he's also successful and he says it's fine. So, like, it's fine. But then three days before Stephanie's wedding, her little brother calls her to say he is not so fine. I thought he was going to tell me that he had broken up with his girlfriend. And I was really going to be pissed off about it because, like, the plane tickets. Like, it was like, Harris, you know, this is my wedding. Like, you know, we have, like, don't mess this up, you know. I have a seating chart. Yeah. Break up with her after, you know. I was, like, so put off by that. Because he said, I needed to talk to you about something. And told me he was a drug addict. I just stayed really calm. And I said, okay, well, you're going to need to get help for that. And he said, you know, I have all this stuff going on with parks. I can't deal with it right now. But I have a handle on it and I'm going to, it's going to be fine. And yay, your wedding. And it's going to be great. You know. And I just hung up the phone and was just sobbing. I remember, like, weeping into my husband's shirt. And I was cooking dinner at the time, which I probably had never done again since then. I don't even, the fact that I was cooking dinner is a real miracle. Because that never happens. This is why I don't cook dinner. This is why. Yeah, I have PTSD about dinner cooking. That's why. Sorry, honey. Um, so, yeah. But the other crazy thing about that was that he told me I couldn't tell anyone. And so it was a secret that I had to keep for months. Wow. Steph kept Harris's secret, which was hard because their family is really close. And because Harris. Harris was her best friend and he was suffering. And because secrets are hard. And because aside from just holding on to that secret, Steph got pregnant and her pregnancy was rough. And then Harris's girlfriend reaches out to Steph and she tells Steph that things are not fine. No matter what Harris is telling his sister, it's not fine. Harris is spending $4,000 a month. On pills. Harris's girlfriend tells Stephanie that she's afraid. She's afraid Harris is going to end up dying and that Harris needs help immediately. So that perfect little ball of stress and anxiety where Steph had wrapped up Harris's secret starts to come undone. And four months after promising her brother she'd keep his drug addiction a secret, Steph tells their parents. I remember, Mom, you just kind of took it in. And didn't really, didn't really react in an emotional way almost. It was like kind of just processing the news and my dad, too, just processing. And then just very calm was like, well, we're going out there in a couple of weeks and we'll deal with it when we get there. So Harris's family, Harris's parents, they go out to L.A. And Harris, again, tells his family, yes, yes, he has a drug problem. But he is taking drugs. He's taking care of it. So Harris's family goes back to Houston and life continues on as normally as it possibly can. Steph has her baby, a little girl named Iris. And almost immediately Iris is diagnosed with hearing loss and Steph sinks into a depression. But when Harris comes home to Houston to meet his niece, he promises his sister he's going to go back to rehab as soon as he can. As soon as he gets back to L.A. And that helps. How did you feel when you knew he was in rehab? Like it was going to be great. We were good. We were all good about that. He sounded great. His voice changed. His voice sounded like he had been code blued. He was connected. He was like connected again. Yeah. He just sounded like the life had been implanted back into his body. He was like a star rehab. Student. Yeah, he was. Harris was really good at rehab, but that first visit didn't exactly stick. And he ended up going back. And it seemed like that one went even better. His family was even more hopeful. And look, we know this story doesn't have a happy ending. I mean, it's terrible. Thanks for asking after all. But if there were. If there were a happy ending, which is what we all want for Harris, what we all want for anyone that we know who's struggling with addiction, it would go here. This is where we would have Harris come in and tell you all about how well he's doing now and how hopeful he is. So we're going to give that to you just for a little bit. This is Harris talking with Pete Holmes on Pete Holmes podcast. You made it weird. When I get sober, I am able to look at it. Like, OK, but this is a gift that you get to have this for even that amount of time. Right. And I do feel that way now when I have my life back and I'm not using it, trying to kill myself. Essentially, I do notice the beauty of the world and like. Right. But I can revel in a nice day now. Right. I got out of Oregon. Now I'm doing an outpatient on top of that four times a week. I go for three hours, more group stuff. So I'm. Taking it more seriously now. And I'm in a good place. OK. Enjoy that feeling while it lasts. We're going to take a little bit of a break. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. And I'll see you next time on the show. And honestly, getting into bed at the end of a long day has become something I'm looking forward to even more. It's such a simple upgrade, but it makes my whole bedtime routine feel a little more luxurious. Quince prices everything 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands by working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. So you can give luxury quality without the luxury price tag. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app. For app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince ask where you heard about them, let them know it was last day. It's the best way to support the show. The drug landscape has changed and most parents are working from information that's out of date. Fake prescription pills made with fentanyl and other dangerous chemicals are promoted on social media, pressed to look like Xanax. Or Adderall. THC vapes can hit 90 percent. Nothing like the cannabis we remember. Kratom sits on the counter at the gas station. Marketed as natural. And it can be habit forming. You don't have to be an expert to start this conversation. Lead with facts, not fear. Teens can tell when you're exaggerating and they tune out. Ask questions. Listen. It's not one big talk. It's a series of small ones. And morning teens what not to use doesn't teach them what to do instead. Helping them build healthy ways to handle pressure gives them better options. 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I was listening to that thing and I was listening to him tell his sobriety story and I was like, I'm going to kill him. I'm going to kill him. I was so mad at him. Because he was like, and I remember I was like, how are you okay with the fact that you've put this out in the world and you've relapsed? He said some bogus, crazy stuff. He was like, yeah, but so and so many people on Twitter retweeted it, so it's helping people. I was like, I fucking hate you. I can't believe you. But I remember being really angry and then he came home December before he died. He had relapsed and he was detoxing. Oh my God. And- And it was like, I don't know if you've seen the Basketball Diaries, but- Absolutely. I grew up in the 90s. It was way worse than that. It was horrible. Will you describe it for the people who haven't seen the Basketball Diaries who should watch it? He was shaking, sweating, vomiting, too cold, couldn't regulate his body temperature, couldn't sit up, couldn't eat anything, couldn't drink anything, couldn't talk, totally ravaged, totally sick, sicker than I've ever, ever, ever seen anybody in my entire life. And at that point I was like, oh, he's sick. Like, and I love him and I'm just going to sit here and hold his hand and I'm going to love him through it because he's been a shithead and he's been ruining my life, you know, like he's been messing up my life and not being at Thanksgiving and not doing this and not doing this the way I want him to do it. But like, he's sick. Like, I get it now. And then I was like, okay, I just have to help him. Like, I can't make this about me and my anger. After detoxing in Houston, Harris went back to LA and back to rehab and then into a sober living facility where he spent the rest of his life. He stayed until February. Harris had been in a sober living home and checked himself out a few days early. He only wanted to stay a month in rehab and I begged him to stay another month because I knew what his history was. That was on Tuesday night. On Wednesday, the 18th, he supposedly did a great stand-up set at a club, we heard. I sent him an email at midnight about how proud I was of him. And he was getting ready to move to Manhattan to film Master of None. He had gotten a big part in that show as Aziz's best friend. And he was very excited. He wanted to, he wanted to be an actor in the worst way and he was getting ready to cross that threshold. It was a big deal for Harris. And he wrote me back that night and said, I feel so fortunate. I feel so good. And I love you. And found a great place to live in Manhattan. That email from Harris came in the late hours of February 18th, 2015. The next day was Stephanie's 34th birthday. I remember it was a beautiful day. Um, my mom's unzipping her purse and getting Kleenex. Trying to be silent with that. Um, so it was a beautiful day. Hold on. I'm gonna let her, I'm gonna let her get her Kleenex. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Go ahead, honey. This is my mom, like, unwrapping candies in a theater, like doing it for fucking two minutes. Okay. Sorry. I'm just like, do it fast. Okay. Like the fact that you're unwrapping it slowly, we all hear that. Just rip it off. Okay. Um, so it was a beautiful day on February 19th. And I, I remember that because I feel like tragedy always strikes on beautiful days. I truly do. I am alarmed by beautiful days. I was actually, I had plans to go to see, um, 50 Shades of Grey. 50 Shades of Grey with my girlfriends, which I will tell you, I cannot even go see the second one because it brings back such horrible memories for me. I'm sure it's also because it's probably just a terrible movie. We actually loved that movie. Okay. Okay. Anyway, um, we had taken Iris to her speech therapy and she had, she aced her little speech therapy test. We had taken Iris to her speech therapy and she had, she aced her little speech therapy test. For a baby who was born with hearing loss, that was like a pretty miraculous occasion. And so Mike and I, my husband, we were just glowing. And I remember I was changing her diaper and I got an L.A. phone number come up on my phone and I pressed ignore because I was dealing with a diaper. And then we went, we went to the movie in the afternoon and I remember getting a, an L.A. phone number on my phone and I, I texted Harris and I said, I got a strange number. Are you okay? And, um, it rang again. And I swear to God, I just knew. I was like, oh my God, this is happening. Like, oh my God. And I picked up the phone and I was just like, hello? And the woman said, is this Stephanie Whittles? I said, yeah. And I was like, yes. She said, is Harris Whittles your brother? And I was like, oh my God. I was like, wait, wait, wait. And I just, remember I grabbed Iris and I opened the door to the bathroom and I screamed for Mike to come in. This was before she told me even. I just knew. And, um, he came in and grabbed her. She was screaming. And she told me. And I, I still to this day can't remember if she said he died or he's dead or I don't remember how she said that sentence. And, um, I just fell on the floor, also in a fetal position. The grief, the grief position. I was like pounding my fist on the floor. It was, it was, I mean, it was just the most horrific moment. And then. In the midst of that horrific moment, I realized I was going to have to tell my parents. And then I was like, that's going to be the most horrific moment. Like, that's going to be even worse than this. And, um, I don't know. I somehow drove over there. I don't know how. And, um, when I was pulling up in the driveway, my dad was walking up. And, um, I just remember, like, looking at him and thinking, like, we're, like, looking at each other across this line. And once I tell him, like, I'm going to, like, destroy him. And I just, I mean, I just, he is a man of very few words. So I just remember a little, like, a tear falling down his cheek. And, and then I was just, like, really consumed with how my mom was, or where she was, or how she was, or, I mean. And then she was, like, texting me pictures of her dinner. At dinner. At dinner. This sushi place had the most beautiful presentation. And I took a picture of it, and I sent it to Stephanie. I wanted her to see this beautiful plate of sushi. I was, like, oh, man, I hope she's, like, really enjoying this. Because this is it. Like, this, I'm, like, this is the last time she's ever going to be able to have, like, a good day. This is the last time she's ever going to be able to have a good day. 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Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. She texted me back and said, Are you going to go home? Are you going to go play cards? You know, what's going on? And on my way home in the car, I get a text from a girlfriend. It's no longer my girlfriend, I might add. Who said, what has he done? What has Harris done? And that was the text. And I thought, my first thought was he was in the hospital. I never, ever thought he was dead. Because you don't. You just hope. While all this was happening, something else was unfolding in Los Angeles. It turns out Harris's death wasn't just a family tragedy. It was news on gossip TV. The kind of TV that Maureen's former friend had seen. TV that told families, family, friends, and total strangers about Harris's death before his own mother knew that her only son was dead. Pawnee and Hollywood are in mourning. Well, the comedy world mourns a tragic young loss today. Many in Hollywood's comedy world are mourning the loss of one of their own. Harris Whittle. Harris Whittle. Harris Whittle's dead at just 30 years old. Possible drug overdose is suspected as police discover drug paraphernalia in Whittle's home. And so, his business manager was calling me and, like, warning me about the shit show that was about to ensue. And I'm not trying to, like, fuck this up for you any more than it already is. But you, you have to tell your mom. Like, it's going to be out there. And then I remember shortly, after she called me and she was, like, in this pitch that was, like, really high pitch. And she was, like, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? And I said, where are you? And she said, I'm in the parking garage. And I said, stay where you are. Do not move. And I ran down to the elevators. And as I was going down, she was coming up. And, um, I came home and I, my girlfriends, you know, held me up because I was, I was scared. And they walked me into my apartment and, um, my husband looked at me and said, he did what you always thought he was going to do. I got all the way down there and she wasn't there and I ran back up and at that point my dad had told her. So what did you walk into? Them on the floor. And I remember falling on the floor in a fetal position and just screaming, I don't know how to do this. God, don't make me do this, please. That's all I can remember. I just remember the three of us sitting on the couch in just total silence for the rest of the night and just, we were just shocked. We were just totally shocked. And as the night moved on and into the next day, the news of Harris' death was bouncing around the internet. Everywhere that his family turned, other people were remembering Harris. I mean, there was just like every blog, news piece, pictures of him. I mean, the Westboro Baptist Church was picketing in front of the L.A. Weekly, I believe, offices. And they were like, Harris is a fag lover. Like, picketing with signs of his face. And part of a, I mean, I was sort of like, he would love this. This is sort of great. When we went to L.A. to pack up his house, the night before we started to pack up for him, they had a huge tribute for him at a comedy club. UCB. All of his people were there. You know, Amy Poehler, Aziz. Everybody was there. It was huge. It was wonderful. It was sad. It was everything. And Stephanie and I literally got up on Sunday morning and sat on the floor and said, I don't, we have, how, how do you do this? We were immobile. We couldn't move. I mean, it was horrible. And the door bell rang and we opened the door and there were all of his people with boxes and tape and food and everything. And they took over. They didn't leave us for a week until it was all done. And those were, those people, those were great people. I was like shredding all of these things that I would find because I was worried that people were going to find them and put them online. But one of the things that I got were his rehab journals. I didn't want you to read them. I didn't want my mom to read them because they were really upsetting. And one of the things that he had said was that he relapsed every time he got out of rehab the day he got out. Yeah. Stephanie and I went to talk to the therapist at the rehab and he said a lot of times people who get out like Harris who'd been sober for probably 60 days will take the same dose that they took before they got sober and that will kill you. He said it's the just one more time mentality. Right. That's what kills a lot of people. Yeah. They think they can just I'm just going to do it one more time. Yeah. I think his best shot would have been like going to Utah because that just seems where all the Mormons and the rehabs are and spending six full months like locked away focusing on his sobriety and rewiring his brain. But he was so busy that that wasn't an option. He was so busy doing what he loved and what made him so special that he couldn't take that six months. Who can? I mean like that's that's crazy. Truly. Like who can leave their life for six months? So really like no. I don't I don't know that something could have happened. He wanted to be sober and he tried but he was also doing things that he loved and that made him who he was. So I don't think he wasn't committed. I just think that it was really hard to fit sobriety into his life and I think that's what he was. I think that's what he was. not experienced that yet. I can only say that in my experience, time changes grief and that grief changes you. And it just keeps happening and happening and happening. And I don't know that it ever stops. I need a lot of hugs. I'm a hugger now. I just want to hug people. Perfect strangers. I need that. I need that. It's my addiction now. And you just said you were addicted to hugs. Yeah. I just want to exclamation mark that statement. I think I am. Yeah. And get this woman into rehab. Like I kind of equate it to like, you know, a bomb is dropped and your house is like leveled and you're just like sitting there. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't rubble. And like, you kind of have to like you just sit there for a while. And then at some point, you like realize how uncomfortable it is. And you can't live like this anymore. And so you have to kind of walk away from that. And you have to start you have to rebuild a new house like you have to start over because you don't have what you used to have. And like in the beginning, just like I was so consumed by this, this very potent nothing matters. We're all going to die. And then that like morphed into this. And then I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't wait a minute. Nothing matters. I can do whatever I want. Like it turned into this weird, like this flip switched around a year, I would say. And I was like, hey, you know what, I want to live because I'm going to die soon, because we're all going to die soon. The world keeps spinning after every death. Our loved ones stay frozen in time, forever the age they were when they died, all of their unlived potential, evaporated. And we are just left to wonder, what if? What would they be like now? What would they be doing? What would they be thinking? Every year, I watch my dead husband's friends get older, get promotions, have more children. And Harris's family is the same, except that. The life Harris could have had is more publicly on display. And it's on Netflix. Master of None, the Netflix show that Harris was going to move to New York to be in, it's still filmed, with the comedian Eric Wareheim playing Harris's role. And like, it's so, so weird listening to the, watching the first season. I could hear him so clearly. Like I knew every single thing that he had written. And it's like that watching Parks too. I'm like, oh yeah, that was him. That sounds like his voice. So yeah, he had a lot more to give this world, Nora. A whole lot more. The work Harris did give the world was still being recognized after his death. Master of None was introduced to critical acclaim and to heavy rotation on my Netflix. Parks and Recreation was nominated for an Emmy. And in Houston, in. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Maureen had this situation. They'd moved into this beautiful high-rise condo. She had reserved this entire wall. Okay. And one half of the wall was for the life that Harris's parents had lived with Steph and Harris. So childhood photos, photos of their family. And the other half of the wall was for Steph and Harris. And the expectation was that, Maureen and her husband would fill that half of the wall up with photos of their children's children, their children's families. And now. Gone. Now I have a picture of me with Aziz on that wall, getting an Emmy. Another humblebrag. Yeah. That all changed. Wah, wah, wah. Yeah. I mean, but it's also like all of these things, they all exist at the same time. Like, and that's so hard to, Stephanie, like your mom saying, like, all of this, all this thing. You know, I got to go to the Emmys, like, and you got to go there because Harris couldn't write. Yeah. Yes. You get to watch Eric Wareheim and love his character. But also know that. It's hard. That's. It's hard. That was his role. So hard. Yeah. I mean, I. Oh, God. Like, my husband on my birthday, like, got me a cake that just says day because. Because, like, it's truly like in Judaism, you light a yard site candle and you light it for 24 hours after the, you know, to honor the person's life in memoriam of them. And. So. So the yard site candle forever, for the rest of my life, will burn out on my birthday. Every time I age a year, the candle will say, he never can. Like. Gosh. It's so terrible. Oh, my gosh. So, I mean, I hate, I hate my birthday. I never want to celebrate it. I told my husband, like, take it off the calendar. I will forever be 34. A couple of weeks after talking with Harris's family, Maureen emailed me during a sleepless night, thinking about her son. She told me that there's a recording of him making a phone call from heaven. Now, okay. Not actually in heaven. It turns out, once I said that out loud. He was. Harris was alive when he recorded it. In the past. And it's a recording of Harris pretending to be in heaven. He was most definitely alive when he placed that phone call. This recording was for a podcast that he was on called Comedy Bang Bang. And Maureen thought that would be a great last word for the show. And we agree. Hey, it's Harris calling from heaven. It's pretty great up here. It's beautiful, for starters. Uh, Hitler's up here, however, for the vegetarianism thing. So, calling bullshit on that. But other than that, it's pretty great. It's, uh, it is very cloudy. Uh, and you, you sit on them. So that's cool. Uh, oh, gotta go. Ice cream buffet. Big thank you to Steph and her mother. They're beautiful. Mother for their time nine years ago and to Steph for putting all that she has learned into her book last day. That book is out right now. We will have it linked in our episode description. And again, we are talking to Steph and possibly you, some of you on an upcoming episode. So write us, call us, text us 612-568-4441. This is an independent podcast. So thank you for being here and supporting us. Thank you for supporting independent media. I cannot believe we've been doing this for almost 10 years. If you want to support the show financially, no pressure. You can get, uh, bonus episodes on Apple plus. You can also join the sub stack and you'll get, I mean, you know, we do live videos there. You'll get bonus episodes there as well. You'll get more of a, more of a community. You'll get weekly essays. That's where I do my writing. But again, no pressure. You being here, I promise you. Being here is enough. Thank you. Thank you for your time. This episode was produced by Marcel Malikibu. Our opening theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson. Our closing theme music is by my youngest son, Q. And I have to thank right now, all of the people who make this possible, but especially our supporting producers who are people who sign up on sub stack to support us at the highest level and they get their name in the credits. So thank you to Rachel Annalise Chaney, Augie Book, Joy Huizing. No name. Nancy Duff, Jenny Medellin, Kathleen Langerman, Jordan Jones, Ben, Jess, Sarah Quigley, Beth Derry, who's, who's texting me, guys who's texting me it's on, it's on do not disturb, but that's my best friend, Caroline Moss, who we also have to thank. Okay. She's blowing up my texts while I'm trying to record. How dare she? Sarah M. Garifo, Kathy Sigmund, Sarah David, Mary Beth Berry, my high school gym teacher, Sheila Crystal, Kaylee Sakai, Virginia. Libasi, Lizzy DeVries, Rachel Walton, Lisa Piven, Michelle Toms, Nicole PD, Melody Swinford, Michelle O. I already thanked Caroline Moss. Her name comes next, but we just thanked her. Andrew Brzezinski, Amanda, Jess Blackwell, Abia Rose, Crystal Mann, Bonnie Robinson. I love the name Bonnie, by the way, if you're pregnant right now, consider Bonnie as a baby name. Lauren Hannah, Jacqueline Ryder, Patrick Irvine, Shannon Dominguez-Stevens, Kathy Ham, Aaron John, Mad, Christina, Emily Ferriso, Elizabeth Berkley. Sarah, how are you? Monica, Alyssa Robeson, Kaylee, Kate Beyer-Jean, Courtney McCown, Jeremy Essen, Lindsay Long, Jessica Latexier, Lexi Lane Watkins. thank you guys so much we will see you back here again next week prize picks packs are here rip digital packs and get real basketball football and pokemon cards sell cards instantly for cash or ship them home prize picks packs gives everyone the opportunity to pull the one of one cooper flag rookie card worth eight million dollars and a pikachu illustrator card worth 2.8 million dollars and packs as low as just one dollar download prize picks and use code spotify to get 25 instant link and bonus packs when you buy your first five dollar pack prize picks run your game 18 plus eligible areas terms apply collect responsibly hank joined bj's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30 i coach football now coach hank saves up to 25 off grocery store prices 30 pounds of pasta three cases of protein bars 75 sports drinks and that's just pre-game he knows teamwork and bj's knows savings this is your home coach home of the save join for just 20 at bj's.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save