When hobbies take over your life

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The Nation's Resilience Network starts here. Learn more about Verizon's Community Disaster Resilience Initiative at verizon.com slash community resilience. The hobbies I have are probably considered brain hobbies. The hobby was becoming more work than just going for a regular walk. I am now firmly in don't let your hobbies become your job territory. Tahika Barua knows how to keep busy. I do a lot of things for fun. So right now I'm focusing on running and run clubs. Learning to swim. In the summer, I was doing tennis and dance classes. In the winter, I love skiing. And then here and there I've dabbled in other things like archery. Or acting classes or improv classes for the fun of it. So I'm always looking to try new things. But I think in the past, it's definitely filled up my calendar where every single day I was doing something where I was just very, very exhausted. Mahika's a journalist. She wrote about her love of hobbies for time. And how sometimes her hobbies didn't exactly love her back. So I went on this adventure trip. I did not know how strenuous it would be. So on the first day, it was, I would say, like four or five hours of paddle boarding. And the second day, again, we did paddle boarding for, I would say, two or three hours. And on the third day, it was a hike, which was, you know, it was a lot of fun. Because it wasn't your general hill. It was so strenuous. And then after the hike, we had the paragliding. By that point, I was popping paracetamols to keep up. We do the paragliding. I definitely get sick after, like, ten minutes of it. And I was the only one. Like, a lot of people threw up as well. It was strenuous. We pick up hobbies, hoping to add some fun to our lives. A few years ago, I started backpacking. I bake and play video games and do block printing and watercolor and scrapbooking and beading and things like that. I'm actually just getting out of my car at 5 a.m. to do speed golf. I grew up playing this little-known card game called Magic the Gathering. One of my hobbies is designing sets for local feeders. But sometimes, they can start to feel like work. I'm John Glenn Hill. And this week on Explain It to Me from Vox, what happens when our hobbies take over? I think I had to really assess what my body's limits are. And I also had to make room for rest and leisure. I can't be pushing my body as much as I was. There is so much social media content out there about, like, how much you can't. You can't push your body, like, in terms of marathon runners and stuff like that. I ran 180 kilometers on the weekend. And here are five quick-fire backyard option tips. Ultramarathon training is about being uncomfortable and being on your feet for a long period of time. I just ran a 50-mile ultramarathon. And if that sounds crazy to you, what's even crazier is that it's something that you can do if you want to do it. And I was always like, well, I'm not even doing half of that. I'm not running a marathon. Like, I am probably not pushing my body that much. So I was kind of gasping. I was just lighting myself, being like, you'll be fine. Like, you're not doing that much. But I think I was still doing a lot. And it was exhausting. I do love, like, doing new things and getting better at it, especially if something I try and I'm like, wow, this is so addictive. But at the same time, I would say there was a lot of, like, social performative aspect of it as well. Like, I'm not doing it. Like, I was always known by my friends and, like, people around me as, like, that cool person who's always doing new things. Like, she's jumping off a hill or, like, she'll take up a new hobby. And, like, every time someone met me, they were like, wow, you have a lot of hobbies. Like, you're always doing a lot of, like, different things. And I think that got very addictive just to be known as the cool person. And someone said, like, I'm not doing that. Somewhere along the line, I also discovered accidentally that I feel like having hobbies is now apparently seen as, like, a social status. Because right now with inflation and everything, we're going through the cost of living crisis. So if you do have hobbies, it shows that you have the time, energy and money and resources to pour into it regularly. I guess that performative bit got to me. And then I really had to sit down with myself and be like, what are your values? Like, do you really care about this stuff? Up next, why we have such a strong urge to fill up all our free time. What will you brainstorm, collaborate on, present today? What will you resize, post, edit? Imagine. What will you research, test, switch, and finally have the courage to pitch? You got this. What will you visualize, design, brand, animate, create, generate? What will you translate, pour your heart into, or have a laugh doing? Whatever you want to make, it's possible. So what will you Canva today? Support for the show comes from NPR's Machine Gods podcast. AI news comes at you nonstop. But what does any of it mean? What does AI actually mean for you? Machine Gods from NPR helps you make sense of it. It's hosted by Kevin Roos and Casey Newton, two of the best tech journalists on the beat. They give you unmatched access to the industry, and they're fun to listen to, too. Casey and Kevin take an AI realism approach. They report on AI as it is. They don't cheerlead for it or panic about it. The show explores what AI means for work, for life, and all of our futures. You can watch episodes, mix interviews, and industry news analysis so you can be in the know from all angles. And you don't need an AI expert to listen to Machine Gods. It's made for smart, curious people who want to understand what's happening without the hype. Because regardless of how you feel about AI, we can all agree that it's important to keep yourself informed. And you might as well be entertained while you're at it. That's exactly what Casey and Kevin are committed to doing. Listen to Machine Gods in the NPR app or wherever. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Jonathan. This is Emily. I used to love to cook. I used to love to cook elaborate recipes and have people over to cook for them. And I just hate cooking now. It's the last thing I want to do. And I think part of it is because it went from being a fun thing. That I was good at to stressful. I'm JQ. We're back with more Explain It To Me. Gary Cross is a historian who studies how we spend our downtime and wrote a book all about it. It's called Free Time, The History of an Elusive Ideal. He says our obsession with productivity may feel new. But Americans in particular. Have been trying to make the most of our time for a while now. What happens particularly toward the end of the 19th century is that a lot of people are beginning to feel particularly men. A lot of this applies particularly to men were uneasy or didn't feel like they had a place in the home because most of their lives were out in the office of the factory or the field. And so hobbies were in certain ways. in your life. inducements to bring men back into the home around their workshops, around gardening. I can relate to him about to plant a couple of shrubs in the backyard. And also hobbies become important during the Depression when so many people are unemployed. And there was a great push to get people, unemployed people or unsettled people, to develop a kind of a more structured day, a much structured life by developing hobbies, stamp collecting, woodworking and so forth. For women, hobbies are often kind of, at least in that period, were often about reviving or perpetuating old crafts that had been common to women in pre-modern times. You know, quilting. And crocheting and the like. But they all are really about filling time and giving people a sense of accomplishment, particularly in a world where their work was fragmented and sometimes isolating. You know, you could build something all by yourself. And that was very appealing to people. You've written this book about the history of leisure time. I want to know what it used to be like. How did people think about free time before, you know, our modern idea of productivity entered the picture? Well, free time almost didn't exist as a concept. Either you were working or you weren't because of the seasons. Or because you were experiencing sacred time, like in festivals or church time and the like. But the work time was often. It was often intermittent rather than, say, a full day. So people might be working from sunup to sundown, but they would take times during the day to gamble, to drink, to visit with their friends. Or, particularly women, take care of children. They might spend, for some hours, at a spinning wheel. But what has happened in the last several centuries, is that work time has become the most dominant meaning of time. And free time is what could be work time. How did we get that? How did that shift take place? In the course of the last two and a half centuries, work becomes more intense and more productive. Because of machines, and because of the fact that employers have learned how to control labor more. Because of the fact that employers have learned how to control labor more. Instead of working at home, and perhaps having a business relationship with somebody far away, people began to work in factories. And so work became more intense. And that led workers to want to reduce the time that they were expected to be at work. And that's one of the reasons why you have the eight-hour day. The old labor slogan was, "Eight hours for work, eight hours for work." Eight hours for rest, eight hours for what we will. That was a chorus to a song about the eight-hour day in the 1880s. Eight hours for work, eight hours for rest, eight hours for what we will. And that becomes a kind of a basis for the division between free time and work time. Why does it feel like our ideas around productivity at work have kind of shifted? kind of seep their way into our ideas about productivity and leisure time. A lot of it is that old Protestant work ethic that was part of the early migration to the U.S. They were predominantly Protestant Christians who saw work as a kind of a special calling from God, really. That what you did and how efficient you were was what God wanted you to be. In following your proper calling, no work will be so mean and sordid as to not have a splendor and value in the eye of God. John Calvin, 1559. The idea that productivity was the most important thing that you can do, basically associated with capitalism. Capitalism. Really, we're all about increasing productivity. Time away from work begins to be seen as, in some ways, wasted time. Free time develops a kind of a very negative kind of reputation because it's time for people to drink and carouse and to be basically unproductive. Remember that time is money. He that can earn 10 shillings a day by his labor. and goes abroad, or sits idle one half of that day, though he spends but six pence during his diversion or idleness, ought not to reckon that the only expense he has really spent or rather thrown away five shillings besides. Benjamin Franklin, 1748. And the problem was that free time never got the kind of attention and the kind of systematic effort to improve it. As work time did. And so instead of wasting time, many people who have this work ethic began to make their free time into time to improve themselves, to make money, to be busy. And so we have a world where people are often as busy in their free time as they are in their work time. We recently. Did an episode all about AI agents and the promise of technology giving us our time back and something that came up is that when we have more time, we often spend it working even more. Do you think that we'll get to a point where we learn how to just enjoy our free time and try not to optimize it? Or is human nature just, hey, if I've got more time. I'm going to. I'm going to try to be more productive. Well, it depends on what you mean by productive. I mean, a lot of free time productivity is devoted to consuming things and to engage in media. Back in 1970, a Swedish economist named Staffan Linder talked about a hairy leisure class that was emerging. We have always expected one of the beneficent results of economic affluence. To be a tranquil and harmonious manner of life, a life in Arcadia. What has happened is the exact opposite. The pace is quickening and our lives, in fact, are becoming steadily more hectic. We live in a world that doesn't train people, doesn't educate people for life. We educate people for work productivity, for jobs. And we also look upon free time as something that. Is simply a free choice. And that often leaves people with the choices of speeding things up and and engaging in this kind of fast consumer culture that that really is is so dominant today. Up next, how to slow down and really, truly do something just for fun. Are you a pet owner? Every six seconds, a pet owner in the U.S. gets hit with a vet bill over a thousand dollars. Always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats. According to ConsumerAdvocate.org, you get paid back up to 90 percent of vet bills at any vet in the U.S. and Canada. With claims. It's paid back in as little as two days. Go to FetchPet.com slash save right now for your free quote. That's FetchPet.com slash save. Support for the show comes from Built. 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But note that Built is not spelled like you would spell it. It's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash Explained. There's no U in Built, okay? Use our link so they know we sent you. Join Built dot com slash Explained. No U. No U! Hi, my name's Lilia. I started getting back into reading after my undergrad when I had time again. And very quickly, my feed was just surrounded by people who would marathon read. And I got so overwhelmed with all the book suggestions and compared how much I was reading to other people. And it just went from like, oh, this is fun to do, to, oh my God, I need to do the best and be the best. And that's how it's been with a lot of things. This is Explained to Me. I'm J.Q. I'm Jenny O'Dell. I'm a writer. And I am the author of How to Do Nothing and Saving Time. Jenny's books are about how we use time and how we relate to it. And that got her thinking more and more about our free time. I think hobbies are a place where you can see different ways of thinking about time kind of battling each other. I think, like, there's a very fine line between someone who pursues a hobby for. for the sake of doing it versus someone who feels that they need to optimize it, perhaps even make money off of it. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, you know, like, there's kind of. These are different ways of thinking about the activity that you're doing. You know, people read the title, How to Do Nothing, and they think that I'm a person who, you know, like, literally doesn't do anything. I love to do things. And I love to learn things. And I think a lot of people start hobbies because they want to learn. And I think that in American culture, like, a lot of us stop. being given opportunities to learn after we're children or after we're students. And I think it's really beautiful that adults seek out, you know, ways to learn, often leading into communities where they're learning with other people. Like, I think that's amazing. And learning has progress in it. Like, you do get better at things when you learn them. My feeling is just that that sense of forward movement and learning maybe just gets co-opted by this larger culture that we exist in that is also very American, of needing to have. something to show for your time. So what starts out as wanting to learn something and wanting to progress through different ways of knowing how to do something turns into something that you're sort of, like, giving yourself a score on without your ever having decided to do that. We spoke with this historian earlier, and he said part of the reason we relate to our free time in this particular way in America specifically is because of the history of the Protestant work ethic. It's just so ingrained in us. How do you help yourself break out of that mentality? I actually, I have to shout out this book called The Score by C.T. Nguyen. I really, really recommend it because he talks about this very question. Games are designed for fun and pleasure and joy a lot of the times. And institutional scoring systems are designed for something else, typically something like optimizing productivity or maybe at best accountability, but they sure as hell aren't designed for fun. They're designed for fun or freedom. And in that book he talks about games and how when you play a game you take on a whole new set of values, like a whole new objective, and you do that for whatever couple hours and then you put it away. And it's kind of this practice in taking values, putting them on, taking them off, putting them away. The pleasure of games is having an experience of value clarity, right? You know exactly what gets you one point, what gets you two points, and what gets you three points. The values are clear. There are no constraints. There are no questions about who won. And so I think for me actually like either literally playing games or just kind of trying to have like a more playful experimental mindset about what it is that I'm doing, it can sort of break that cycle because, again, it's so familiar to us. Like when you get closer to it, it gets more and more seductive. Like I want a higher number. I want a higher number. And then you just need something to kind of like break you out of that and be like, what is this number even measuring? You know, like for me, I'm a writer. Words per day. That's a measure, right? Like one would think you want more words per day, but all words are not the same. And like there have been moments where I was like, I am trying to optimize for words per day. Without you, I just started doing that, you know? And then I have to kind of stop myself and sort of think about what are other ways that I could value the situation? Like what were those words? Like did I make some sort of breakthrough? Like did I, you know, there's all these other different ways that you could think about what it is that you're doing that are not this kind of standard one. And so, that's kind of what's been helpful for me. Something I think a lot about when it comes to hobbies is failure. For instance, I'm getting back into photography. I did film photography in high school. And this year I was like, okay, I'm going to pick it back up. I am going to do one roll of film a month. The year's almost over. I've done three rolls of film, one of which I must have unloaded incorrectly because it was completely blown out. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, I mean, making this rookie mistake. What role does failure play in our hobbies and how we interact with that? I love failure. I think it's so underrated. And games are, again, very useful here. Like we fail all the time in games. You actually play games in order to fail, like in a fun way, right? Yeah, yeah. As long as you're not playing with someone too competitive. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like a good sportsman, right? A sports person like wants to, is open to failure and knows that that's fun. And I think that along with not having opportunities to learn as adults, we also aren't given opportunities to fail. And like, I am here to tell you, like it is like, I feel like I am like actively now seeking out things that I'm bad at just so I can have that feeling. I'm a failure addict. Yeah, that is true. I mean, once we leave school, once that's done, it's like what opportunity, what opportunities do we have to safely learn things and fail and try it again? Yeah, it's also just like, I don't know. I don't know how else to describe it. It's really fun to be bad at something. Like once you accept that you are bad at it, your reason for doing it has to be something else. Like I've been going to this native plant restoration thing for two and a half years now. So I definitely like know my weeds and I am better than the day that I showed up. But I don't go there. I don't want to be the best at something. Like it's so irrelevant to my concerns when I'm there. What's a way to help yourself fall back in love with hobbies if it's been a while or if you've optimized so much, you want to find the joy in it again? I want to say like do the equivalent of, if you're right-handed, it's like do the equivalent of trying to write with your left hand. Like anything you can do to, sort of relax the grip that you have on this thing. It's like perfectionist grip. And I think that means like kind of throwing obstacles in your way, in your own way, or like trying to do things just in a way that you've never done them before. Like sort of rediscover the same thing from a new angle or, you know, in a different context with new people, like whatever it is. But I think like when people get into that sort of posture with hobbies, it's often something that it's like a habit that has formed over time. It's almost like, it's like a posture that you're sitting in. You just need to like stand up. Remember Mahika? After her disastrous trip, she saw a video that really shifted her perspective about her own leisure time. You could even say it was divine intervention. So it's a nun podcast that has gone viral on TikTok and two nuns were talking where one nun said to the other, do you have a hobby sister? And this, this other nun said, I do not have a hobby. Okay. I want to just like hang out and talk to people. I don't want to be doing something. And that felt so liberating to me because a year ago, if someone said to me, they have no hobbies, I would think they're a sloth in human form. After she realized she maxed out on hobbies, she gave herself permission to take a step back. I allow myself to say no. And take like a day off or change my mind. Like if I, let's say, said to myself, I'm going to go to the run club. I am going to wake up in the morning at 8am. And then I'm watching like, nobody wants this on Netflix. I'm like, it is 12am. I should go to bed. But then I want to watch the whole series. So I allow myself to watch the series. And not go to the run club. That's okay. Whereas previously I was like, no, you cannot do this. You have to wake up in the morning. We can't binge watch Netflix. We have to go to bed. So I was very strict. Like, you know, I'm scolding a child or something. Whereas now I'm like, you know what? It's not a big deal. I'll go next week or I'll go, you know, during midweek. It's not the end of the world. So the way I speak to myself and the way I allow myself to kind of like, you know, take it at a slow pace is, not something I was doing before. That's it for this week. We'd love your help with a show we're working on about men and friendship. There's been a lot of discussion about the male loneliness epidemic. If you're a guy, have you had any trouble making and keeping friends? If you've got a guy in your life, is this impacting you? Give us a call at 1-800-618-8545 or shoot an email to askvox at vox.com. Oh, and here's a new hobby idea. Listening to this podcast ad-free. All you have to do is become a Vox member. It's the best way to support us and comes with a ton of cool perks. Head to vox.com slash members to learn more. This episode was produced by Danielle Hewitt. It was edited by Avishai Artsy, fact-checked by Melissa Hirsch, engineered by David Tatteshore. Our executive producer is Miranda Kennedy, and I'm your host, John Glenn Hill. Thank you so much for listening. I'll talk to you soon. Bye! You've been asked to run the company's social channels, but company content plays by its own set of rules. It needs a logo in the first three seconds, but it can't feel like an ad. It needs subtitles, except when it doesn't. 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