When “Doing Good” Isn’t the Goal

If we're doing good works with the wrong motives, and it's not about Jesus, then we're also not being changed. - Hello there, you're listening to the Girl Talk podcast. My name is Carol. - I'm Kelly. - I'm Trisha. - We're glad you've joined us today. We're going to be talking about fruit now. If you're a believer, you've probably heard the word fruit. I'm not talking about the brown bananas on your count. I'm talking about spiritual fruit. I read this quote recently, and I want to think, get your thoughts on it. Here's the quote, fruitfulness follows intimacy. Fruitfulness follows intimacy. In the context of, you're never going to be fruitful over what you are intimate with Jesus. So I think for the majority of my Christian life, I have thought, I'm going to do great things for God, and that's going to get me closer to God. - Not backwards, the backwards of it, which is the closer I get to God, the more great things God is going to do. And so I want to talk about this today, because I think we live in a world that constantly shines a spotlight on what we do. Like, I got to read my Bible every day, and I got to go to church on Sundays. I got to go on Wednesday nights. I got to do all the things, which are all good things for you to do, and they are God commands us to do those things. But when it's all said and done, it's the intimate relationship that Jesus is trying to build in us, not the checking of the box. - Yes. - Right? - Yes, agreed. - So, why do you think that God will bless us? Why do we think that God will bless our activity without intimacy? Why do we think that? - Okay, I'm just going to talk about the first thing that came to my mind. I think we've all seen the stories where the celebrities go to another country, and they spend a lot of money and a lot of time feeding kids or doing good things. And oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes there's no spiritual connection to what they're doing. - Right, yes. - You know, they are doing that. And so, it makes you wonder, okay, well, why are they doing that then? Like, are they doing that because they feel guilty because they have a lot of money, and then these people don't. Are they doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves? Are they doing it because if there is an innate thing in us that knows good versus evil? I don't know, I mean, it's a curious thing because I know we're talking about believers right now. - Sure. - But there are other people that are out being fruitful in some way, but without the intimacy, so it's curious. - Yeah. - So, I wonder if what you're really saying is that you're motive, getting down to your motive and motive matters, I think it does 100%. But I don't think God blesses the work of the people who aren't his children. - Uh-huh, uh-huh. - I mean, 'cause we can all do good things. - Uh-huh, uh-huh. - Well, yeah, I don't know if I agree with myself with that. - Yeah, 'cause God is interested. - It's interesting. - It's interesting, right? - And He will because He can use anyone. - He's working out His will. - Right. - Yes, that's true. - We can actually have that from the record. (laughing) - That's an interesting call. - We can actually have fruitfulness without intimacy. We can have fruitfulness, we can, we've seen, and that's why I think why we think it can happen is because we've seen it happen. We've seen God work out His will in celebrities doing things around the world. It might not be for Jesus, but they're doing great work. So I think part of it is redefining what our definition of fruitfulness is, too. - Let's start there. - Yeah, so I think part of it is that, we have to have fruitfulness for Jesus, that Jesus's message, the gospel is being sent forward. And that while we are able to do good works aside from Jesus and the gospel going forward with it, as we've seen with celebrities, we are not changed as people. So there's no fruit in us, like if we're doing good works with the wrong motives and it's not about Jesus, then we're also not being changed. And we're not talking about Him as we're doing it. And so they might have clean water, they might have food to eat, but they still are missing the biggest piece of it. And so it's defining that that fruit is actually Jesus, the fruit is not clean water in full bellies and healthy nutrition or shelter or whatever it is, that the fruit is Jesus and Jesus being in people, and Jesus transforming people. So when we look around the world, the fruit is the transformation in other people's lives, not, and the transformation starts with us. So that's where the intimacy is. It's the transformation of ourselves and the fruit that's then in us, then bubbles out of us to help transform other people with the gospel, not transforming them in their situation. What if the question is this, who is your fruit pointing to? Right? Yeah. Because there's fruit, but it points to me. There's fruit that points to Jesus. Who is the fruit pointing to? And when we say fruit, we're talking about, I mean, I think it's time out fruits of the spirit, right? In a sense or in some level. Yeah. I mean, it could be more than that, but fruits of the spirit. I remember always when, I don't know if someone taught me this or if I just got this idea in my mind, but I equated somebody coming to know Christ with fruit. Is there scripture that says that? I just always thought that when somebody said, you know, you will bear much fruit. It would be people will come to Christ as a result in my name. It does say that verse, I think maybe says something in my name maybe that would point to that. That would allow that. So fruit, for me, I think I was, but I think fruitfulness is more definitely could be the fruits of the spirit or the fruit of the spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, Galatians 5 on that. If you want to take a look at that, but I also think it points back to where Jesus works into, 'cause you, like you can open a business and the business be fruitful and you can't get within a half a mile of Jesus. I mean, it's just, it's just you make good sub sandwiches or something, you know, but in your business is fruitful. So I think, yeah, there has to be some kind of definition. What do you think about that KB? - Yeah, I mean, I think, yes. I mean, there's, there's lots of, there's lots of unpacking that all the way out I think, but. - Well, you just had to do the suitcase, so yeah. - I'm packing. - Do it. It's a Christian easy kind of order. - Yeah, it is, yeah, it's totally Christian easy. And I do, I just think that it is, there's worldly fruit and there's godly fruits. And the worldly fruit is, is success and it's same fortune. - Right, it points to us. Like you said, it, and it might do great things and God might use it to open up the door, you know. He will use secular things all the time to lay a platform for then the gospel to come in. So I'm not even saying that like fruit of just feeding people and not telling them about Jesus is not worthless. - Right, yeah, it's not worthless. It opens people up to a place where they can then hear the gospel. So so many ministries are actually based on that model of we're gonna meet their needs first. The fruit is gonna be full bellies and it's gonna be a house to live in and it's gonna be clean water. So that we can then come back with the second and most important thing being the gospel that you are transformed by the gospel, but we have to transform your circumstance so that you can then hear the gospel. So I do think there's definitely two types of fruit and they go hand in hand. And you can have fruitfulness A without Jesus being in it and Jesus can work through secular people. We saw that in the Bible over and over and over again where we used all kinds of bad people to set up an environment so that they are then receptive for the gospel message. Tell you a quick story about when I was a youth group. I'll never forget this, we went on a trip somewhere and we were not even going, I don't remember where we were going but we stopped at like a fast food restaurant in order to eat and there was a homeless man in the restaurant and one of the teens got, went to the counter ordered and went over to the table where the homeless man was sitting and sat down his tray and just slid it across to the man and they began to talk. And afterwards we got back on the bus to go where we were going And I ask him, I was like, Like, why did you do that? And he said, because I knew he couldn't hear me with a growling belly, couldn't hear me over a growling belly. And I was like, you know, that is so true in that just what you spoke to about meeting physical needs so that they can hear the spiritual truth of, why would you do that for me? He said, well, I got what I was going to eat and I did without so that he could see that somebody cared about him. You know, what a great example of putting faith in motion and he had a great conversation with a gentleman, a gentleman walked away fed physically and maybe even a little bit spiritually. And I think that's a good, it was, I mean, I was a teenager when it happened. So I remember that a long time, about six minutes, six minutes, that's right. That's right. So I think we have to go, you know, we talked about motive, we've talked about, you know, what really, who our fruitfulness points to. But what at the heart of this, I think it's if we want to see spiritual fruit, we have to plant spiritual seeds. - Yeah. - Yes, that makes sense. - Yes. And I wanna be real careful about how we talk about this because I think in our Western mindset, we can say, okay, the spiritual seeds are things I can do. And sometimes it is, reading the Bible, going to church, you know, being in community, all the things that we talk about this day in time. But Jesus didn't tell us those things so that we could check a box and he would love us more. Jesus told us those things is because that's where we grow in intimacy with him. - Mm. - And that's something that I, sadly, had missed for a long time. Like I didn't, I like, I guess I did, but I'd never really thought about it. And sometimes I think we just get in the pattern of life going by and everything's going by so quick that we just don't think about it. And I was like, I think that's this last little, you know, time with the Lord when he's really been sending me through a printing season. He's just been kind of like, mm, am I your priority? Not so that you can get more love, right? Because that's the only way that we think, if God loves us more, then we're gonna be more fruitful. - Yeah. - Right. - And we're more fruitful and God's gonna love us more if we behave right, and we do all the right things and check all the boxes. - Which comes first, the fruit or the intimacy? - That's right, that's right. - And it's not searching for the intimacy so that I will be more fruitful. - That's right. - Like that's definitely the wrong motive, right? I mean, it's a good motive, but it's not a whole motive. Like we want to have the intimacy so we know the heart of the Father so that we can then be transformed to have the heart of the Father. 'Cause that's really what we want and so as we go out and I mean, non-believers are hard. They are hard to love. They're hard to get along with. They're hard 'cause sometimes you just, you want to punch them in the nose and or shake 'em and just say, how do you wanna see this? - Why are you missing the most important thing ever? And they act like non-believers. They don't have the same, you know, whatever. We can talk about that all day long, but for God to transform us, starts with that intimacy so that we can then have the right posture and heart towards the people that he's created, the image bears that are lost. And we, he wants us to have a hunger for them and a hunger to tell them about Jesus. And the more we spend time with him, the more he imputes that into us. - Yeah, you're making me think about, the thing my therapist was talking about, how the goal is not to feel a certain way or to do a certain thing, the goal is to follow God, to follow Christ ever closer. And when we do that, all kinds of other good things come along with it and that can include being fruitful. - Sure. - But it starts with taking the steps toward Jesus, following the God-centered life and not checking boxes. But I think the more intimate we get with God, the more we want to stay close to God. So sometimes it starts with, why don't feel like reading my Bible or praying today, but I'm gonna do it. And then God starts to work on our hearts. And then we find that we want to do it more. And it's a beautiful, like an opening of a flower, but sometimes you gotta take the first step. - Sure. I was got an email from somebody and they were referencing this article, "Guide Written Online," it had over a million views. And I was just like, "That's interesting." So I went to read it. And there were three words in there that really stood out to me. It wasn't a Christian article at all. But he said these three words, behavior follows desire. Behavior follows desire. Here's why that stood out to me or what God did with it in my life. I spent most of my Christian life working on my behavior. And I could do pretty good for a while. But I could do nothing to change my desire. And my behavior is gonna follow my desires, not the other way around. Instead of a pill battle. - Right. And I would do good for a little while and then I'd fall off the wagon, right? Just like every diet I've ever been on in my life. I'd do good for a while and then I'd fall off the wagon, right? It's because my desire, I can't fix that. But God can fix our desires. And that's the intimacy that He wants with us to give us the desires, to want to do, to be in community, to go to church, to read the Bible, to have time with Him every day and to study His word, all those things. But my behavior, it does matter, but it's not the most important thing. That intimacy is where those things will really be changed. - Well, how do you think you start that? 'Cause it sounds like we're talking about two different things. But I don't think we are. Like I'm saying, if I take the step to read my Bible, then I feel like God meets me there and then I start to change my internal self. But you're saying the internal self, the desire and then your behavior to change it. - I'm just saying, I've spent a good number of years trying to behave with myself and that is frustrating. I would be so frustrated with Christian 'cause I was like, I read my Bible four days in a row and then on the fifth day, life happened and everything blew up and now God doesn't love me. All those things, but it was more of a check in the box of saying I did this so God, you gotta love me. 'Cause I kept my part of the deal. So you can keep your part of the deal. Well, the truth of matters, I can't keep my part of the deal. And that's why he had to go to the cross, right? But I think it is, I think it is but I think two things can be true as my friend Jeff says, two things can be true. I cannot feel like it. Feelings are a whole 'nother different thing. But for lasting sustained change, it has, my desire has to change. - How do you think you change your desire? - I don't think you can. I think God can, I swear. - Yes, through prayer, I think you ask God to change your desire. It's just like you said a while ago, ask God. If you don't feel like, just talk to him about that. I had a friend who said, pray about everything. If you stump your toe, tell God, that hurt. I don't know why he puts so many nerve endings down there, but my pinky toe has a million and they're all throbbing. I can feel my heart beating my toe right now. You know, those kinds of things. To just make talking to him as normal. And when you, I don't have those desires, like there are plenty of days I wake up on the wrong side of the bed and I don't have enough coffee. And this morning my coffee maker broke. I did that at home. So I didn't even have a colleague before I got here. I was like, I got a people today. I need more coffee, right? But just making that normal in your life. Just talking to him about everything. And when you don't feel like it, telling him that. - Yeah, well that's intimacy, it's by the way. - Well, and I think what you, you know, watching you guys talk about this, you are talking about the exact same thing that when you, you may not want to go to your Bible, you may not want to go to prayer time and go anyway. And then start with the, God changed my heart. God changed my desire. Make it so that I want to spend time with you and then spend time with him. And then I think into my morning, go and do it anyway. You know, that sometimes that behavior and that desire has to go hand in hand. You know, sometimes you have to have the behavior and then pray for the desire. And it's just, it's all wrapped up in the one. - And I think that's intimacy, isn't it? - Yeah, because it's not a formula. It is a personal relationship and that's what intimacy is. - And I think for so long and maybe for so many people, maybe for you listening today, it's been a formula. It was a formula for a long time for me. More than I really want to admit of just going through the motions, you know, we hear that a lot of people like there's a song a couple of years ago and I want to go through the motions. And I think a lot of us do just because that's what we know to do and we think if we are good enough and smart enough, dog on it, got to like us and, you know, he'll let us into heaven. Well, you can't get there. You can't get there from here. You know, you have to say, Jesus, I need you to be the savior of my life 'cause I have no ability to save myself. And I think that's, you know, part of what the whole Christian life is a lot. about is we are being sanctified, which is just being turned into day after day after day to look more like Jesus. Well, Jesus's number one characteristic was not what he did for the Father. It wasn't the number of, I mean, we tell the stories of feeding the 5,000, you know, we tell the stories of the miracles that he did, but that's not his number one characteristic. His number one characteristic was his intimacy with the Father that they were one. And so when we're being refined and being changed and being sanctified into look more and more like Jesus, that's what God's really wanting is an intimacy. I mean, the the byproduct is the things we do for him, but what he really wants is he wants us to be like Jesus and being like Jesus is not running around doing, you know, all the things as much as we can and checking all those boxes. It's the intimacy with the Father, the just constant walking with him. That is the real desire and the real way that we turn out to look like Jesus. That's good. So we challenge you to ask yourself is time with God my priority. Be honest. God knows if time with him is a priority, sometimes we let everything else. And I only can say that because I am so guilty of it. We let everything else become a priority in our life, but intimacy with God, but that is where we grow. That is where we learn more about his character and we learn more about what he wants for our lives, isn't that intimate relationship with him. Now, if you got thoughts on that, we'd love to hear them. You can email us at [email protected]. You can also get in touch on the Facebook pages. You can send a carrier pigeon. You can. Please. I can write that. You would love a carrier pigeon. That would be cool. And we would do a little happy dance, but we always do when we hear from you because this podcast is designed to share Jesus with people. There's no other reason for it. We want people to know Jesus and we want you to get closer to Jesus. And that's why we do this. So you know what? We're going to save you a seat. Next time, we gather around these microphones for the next Girl Talk podcast.