When A Bloody Person Knocks - Spring Brook, Wisconsin

This week, in Springbrook, Wisconsin, a young woman wandering up to a farmhouse covered in blood has a wild story to tell about fear and murder, but is everything she says just a ploy to cover up her own horribly bloodthirsty actions? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, insane edition of Small Town Murder. We have a wild story for you, just all sorts of strange relationships and awful murder. It's just terrible stuff. You're going to love it. Let's just put it that way. So, before. Before we get started, I do want to thank everybody who watches on Netflix, by the way. Wow. Thank you for that. You guys are apparently watching all of it and sticking around and hanging out, so thank you so much. Also, if you do watch on Netflix and you enjoy what you see, you can listen. There are hundreds of episodes that came out before Netflix, before we were on, so you can listen anywhere you listen to podcasts. Hundreds and hundreds of Small Town Murder episodes that are just as good as the ones you're watching. You can't always be around a TV. So, you know. And we might be coming to a city near you. And you can come see us at a show there. So, definitely. And what you can do with that is head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, and you can get tickets for live shows. Absolutely. We are going to be in Milwaukee on September the 18th at the Pabst. We released the last of our hold, so there's a few tickets left for that if they're not gone already. So, check those out. The next night, Minneapolis State Theater, September 19th. Get your tickets right now. Dallas, October 3rd. October 16th and 17th. San Jose, Sacramento. And then Tarrytown in Boston on the November 13th and 14th. 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Plus, you get everything we put out, all of our shows, all of everything, all ad-free when you subscribe as well. And you get a shout-out at the end of the show where Jimmy will mess your name all up. Wow, it's so much, I'll tell you. It's amazing. And also, we have to do the disclaimer now. Yes. Disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody. It is a comedy show. Murder happens as well, hence the title. So, yeah, you're going to have to deal with both. And you go, why do you do that? That's a mighty fine line to walk. And it is a fine line to walk. And we have great balance. So, we can pull this off. Because, honestly, there's really one thing that we shouldn't do and we don't do it. We never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why? Right, James? Because we're assholes. Yeah. But we're not scumbags. That's all it is, pretty much. Otherwise, there's plenty of other stuff to make fun of just because why not? We're comics and things happen and there's plenty to make fun of there. But, you know, we lay off the victims and the victim's family because you don't need to do that. We can make fun of the murderer. Why not do that? We have no other recourse at it. So, we do that. Either way, though, check it out. No complaining later is what we're going to say here because you never know. That said, I think it's time to sit back. Everybody, what do you say? Clear the lungs, shall we? Arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. We're doing it. Let's do it right now. We're going to Wisconsin, everybody. Yeah. Where we will be going as well. We will be there on September the 18th at the Pabst, as a matter of fact. Wait, one of the best, nicest theaters in the country. We're excited. But we're not going there this week. We're going to Springbrook, Wisconsin, which is nowhere near the Pabst or anything that happens there. This is in western Wisconsin. It's in the Wisconsin Dells area there. Yeah. Where they all go on summer vacation. Yeah. Like Northwoods, Dells, all that shit. Yeah. Think great outdoors. Yeah. Yeah, those kind of things. Lakes and such? Lakes and, yeah, exactly. Because that's where they were. They were in the Northwoods. I don't know if they were in the Dells, but they were the Northwoods. But it's all Wisconsin. It's all lakes and woods and cabins and, you know, suck my wake and pontoon boats and jet skiing, I assume. The most local bitches you ever see. Local. And if you, whenever, you have to be careful when you're lining up your shot and pool because you're probably putting your stick in between a waitress's legs. You're probably doing it. You're probably going to hit a very local girl in the giner. Very local. Very local. And don't kiss the old men in wheelchairs. They're all dead. Don't do that. Dead people will breathe on you, everyone. It's disgusting. You don't want that. So, which I'm sure it's available on Netflix. Great outdoors. You should watch it. So, anyway, this is about an hour and 25 minutes to Minneapolis. It's actually closer to Minneapolis than it is to the Milwaukee population. It's three hours and 50 minutes to Milwaukee. So, really a lot the other way. And about three and a half hours to Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, our last Wisconsin episode. That was episode. That was episode 686, Serial Killer Motives. That was a wild one. The title says it all. Now, this is in Dunn County. We must differentiate between the Springbrooks now, which you son of a bitches, I swear to God, when you're researching a town and you don't realize there's two goddamn Springbrooks. In Wisconsin? Oh, yeah. And you're taking stuff from different ones and then you realize, oh, God, these are different places. And then you have to go back and find. Oh, it's a nightmare. Trust me. Why'd they do that? I can't. First, we were looking at a case in Wolf River and there's two different Wolf Rivers as well, which drove me insane. But now this is Springbrook. This is Springbrook with a space. Spring space brook. I wish I knew because when you're researching it and you don't know that this is two different towns and you start taking bits from one town and bits from another Springbrook and putting them together and then realize they're not the same place and have to go back and fix it all. You hate Wisconsin. You hate Wisconsin for a minute. Let me tell you something. Who allowed that? I have no idea. This is Spring space brook. Okay? There's also Springbrook, one word. One word. That's in Washburn County. This is in Dunn County. Oh, see, James, that's how it's different. That's how it's different. And I don't think they're that far from each other either, which is even more maddening. So this is area code 715 and 534. A little bit of history of this town. Apparently, there was a lot of wild rice going on. In this place, as we found out, this region is very ricey. A lot of rice. I love it. The Menominee tribe spread wild rice everywhere. Right. We did an episode in Menominee, Wisconsin, and they were very excited that we pronounced it correctly, by the way. They were jacked for that. I had to thank Roz from Frazier for that because that's the only way I knew. So by the time— The only gripe I have about wild rice is it takes for fucking ever to cook that shit. Otherwise, it's crunchy. You've got to get that water in there. You're going to bust a filling on that shit and go, what the hell is in here? Metal pieces? And as much water as it tells you to use, use double that. Yeah, just keep soaking it. Keep doing it. It evaporates before the rice can suck it in. It's tough, man. It's a sturdy rice. It is. So by the time there's any European people here, the area now that's Dunn County was inhabited by the Santee Dakota, who were in a feud with the Ojibwa people as well. Yeah. So that's something there. That's something there. Ojibwe? Ojibwe? Ojibwe? This is just with an A. I think it's Ojibwe. O-J-I-B-W-A. I think it's Ojibwe. I think it is, too. I think you're right. So also there was the Knapp, Stout, and Company. They began in 1846 to become one of the largest lumbering operations that they've ever had anywhere in the world. Knapp, Stout owned over one—wow—half million acres of pineland in the Red Cedar Valley. And they cut two million acres. board feet of pine and and conducted retail and wholesale merchandising operations as well. They had a steam mill, a shingle mill. Yeah, those shake shingles. That was my dream as a young boy, to open a shingle mill of my very own. I want a shake shingle house, just a house full of kindling. I really was looking for it, but you know what? No one would believe in me. Give me the initial seed money, and I couldn't do it. Yeah, the bank told me. That sounds flammable. So they strongly influenced construction, railroads, and all sorts of shit here because basically they were the company of the county. They were like a coal company in some Kentucky hill town, basically. Everyone was dependent on them for everything, so they kind of did what they want. The Dunn County, they put together a company for the Civil War, the Dunn County Pinery Rifles, pinery, from the pinery. Oh, yeah, for the stocks. Yep, and they fought in a shitload of wars, a shitload of battles. Second Bull Run, Antietam, Chancellorsville, the Wilderness, Sponsylvania, Cold Harbor. These are some of the worst battles. Some of the biggest. Chancellorsville was nasty. Cold Harbor was a nasty battle. Petersburg, so it's interesting. Now, there's no reviews for this town. What? Cannot find any. Not a review for the town itself. They don't want you to know, yeah. But I did find a couple of reviews for the Springbrook Resort, on the Dells there. That's fun. Okay, so we'll find out. Owen says, five stars. Absolutely amazing. Worth the extra price for the stay. Was really cool. The cabin backed up to a par three. Oh, that's nice. The Springbrook Resort. I guess. Fuck, I don't know. Maybe you're on the team. Probably the whole course of the par three, huh? Yeah, par three course, maybe. That's what they're saying, not a par three hole. Every hole is three for par, yeah. Yeah. The Springbrook Resort Company texted me several times to see if I needed anything, and also responded right away. More than enough room for my full adult group of 11. Ugh. A group of 11, is that right? 11 adults, is that? That has to be like a bachelor party. 11 Wisconsins, though? Wisconsinites, what do they call themselves? Wisconsinites. Drunks would be a better way to put it. Yeah, that's the answer. 11 adult Wisconsinites. Wisconsinites, all in the woods. Wow. Oh, this person's actually from Rockford, Illinois, which is not better. So, they're drunk, too. Next, Courtney from Chicago. One star. We are here around 3 p.m. Was told the room is not ready until 4. We are still waiting right now at 5.04. Well, listen, you're not getting any of James' sympathy. Yeah. Hotels are like, well, it should be ready, but that time, I don't know. We'll keep walking around the city for a while. You'll be fine. Every time we get to the hotel, they go, check-in's not till 4. And we go, yeah, I was just kind of hoping, no, not till 4. And you're like, okay, well. And then 6 o'clock rolls around. They're like, we're real sorry. I'm sure you're real sorry. Yeah. Oh, you're a stickler for time, but now it's 6. I see how this works. Okay. Yeah, wouldn't it be nice to walk up there and just be like, no, no, check-in was at 4. Check-in's at 4. I'm going to go to a room, so you just, you know. I'm going to barge in while one of the maids are cleaning one of them and just say it's mine now. You better give me your key and number, because I'm going to one. I am happening. It's happening. We are frequent travelers, and but far, and but far, not by far. This is the worst experience. Not the worst, I'm sorry. The worst experience. This is the worst experience, four explanation points. Then there's a response from Julie M., the business manager, who says, sorry to hear this. We want to make sure everybody receives attentive thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then says, best. Mira, who is not Julie, who is the person and picture that posted back to her. So I'm very confused. You don't know what's going on up there. People in this town, 1,764. Not a big town, small. Men and women, this is wild, 55.8% men in this town. Wow. Which is, I don't know what they're, they're still logging or what, because that's a huge difference. Median age here is just almost exactly the national average, 38.8. This is a lot of married people here. 60.2% married in this town, which is a lot. 7.1% single with children, which is way below the national average. So it's interesting. I think more men are willing to be this remote. I get, I think, or I think maybe a lot of these resort places have a lot of like jobs that are like kind of outdoor, like, you know, dirtbag transient dude jobs. You know what I mean? They like live in a, in a, in a shed up in the trees. Yeah. You can't get women to do that. They're like, that's disgusting. Guys, guys like pitch. It's a tough sell. Enough beer. I can make it work. You know, they don't give a shit. He isn't handy wipes from my long John Silvers to clean with. We're disgusting. We're pigs. We're pigs. Uh, race here. Uh, 86.7% white 0.8% black 2.8% Asian 3.6% Hispanic Wisconsin was there. Um, religion 48.8% religious and the highest by far 25.4% of the people here are Lutheran with a bullet to the top Lutheran. Um, yeah, we got that. Uh, not a lot of anybody else really. Uh, that's kind of, it's a lot of Lutheran, um, unemployment, a little bit low, a little bit under the national average, which I assume there's always resort type jobs to pick up around here with something to do. Yeah. Uh, median household income here is actually high by, by only by about 3000, but high $72,000 a year. So not terrible cost of living. 100 is average for the whole country here. It's 86. Oh, that's great. Not bad. Median home costs 316,300 bucks. So right, right up the middle, not bad in the middle. Yeah. It's not terrible. Um, now if we've convinced you, damn it, this is the only place you'll be happy on this beautiful green earth of ours here. We have for you the Springbrook, Wisconsin real estate, eight report. All right. Your average two bedroom rental here goes for $1,020 a month, which is well below the national average. Not bad at all here. Um, now the houses I found very interesting, weird little houses. Here is a one bedroom, one bath, 480 foot. Essentially. It looks like a lot of shed basically. Yeah. Um, it's a, it's a tiny house. It's standalone though. Oh, sitting right by itself in the middle of five acres, by the way. Wow. So it makes it seem even smaller. Really? If you think about it, um, you want room, but feel like you have none. Yeah. You want to, want to do that? You want to have plenty of room outside and none inside. I want to feel great in the summer and horrible in the winter. When you're sitting in this tiny house and can't leave a hardwood floor is pretty nice on 5.03 acres, 140,000 bucks for that much. I mean, for the acreage, for five acres, that's not bad. It's not bad. Um, here's a three bedroom, two bath, 1,820 square foot house, raised ranch, detached garage. It's green. It's like a weird, like pea green, which I don't care for very much here. Uh, point. Yeah. I don't know. It's, it's more yellow than mint. No, more pee, more dull than mint. Okay. It doesn't have like a mint and have some verve to it. A little bit more yellow in the green than, than the white. I guess. I don't know. My also I'm bad with colors. I can't see purple and blue. Oh, same to me and shit. So I, I have some color issues, so I don't know. I guess I try all that color blind. I don't know. I don't think it's like officially, it's just my little fucked up. I got some, my rods and cones are a little off. I'm not sure there. I'm not getting it right, but maybe, I don't know. Uh, 1,820 square feet. So this thing is $363,000. 0.89 acres. Not terrible. And then here's the most expensive one I could find. A two bedroom, two bath, 1,216 square feet. It's on 9.6 acres. It's a little house, got a little porch on it. It's nice. Just had a $5,000 price cut. $444,000 for that. Seems like the, the Midwest dream is to have 10 acres and no fucking house. And no house. Well, I think, cause if you're buying these houses, these aren't to live in. These are summer cabs, summer cabins, vacation places. Yeah. Yeah. That's the dream of anyone who lives in Milwaukee, Chicago. It seems like any of the Minneapolis, they want to have a nice little house and all this. And then they want a lake house for the summer to go away to. Yeah. Summer is such a big deal to them. Cause it's so short and it's not, you know, and it's so cold in the winter. They love it. Let's get out there and get lime to these. I need a tick to bite me now. Um, any chiggers around? Cause I really would love to have one burrow into my skin. Uh, things, things to do here. I'll grow up things to do things to do here. Uh, Wisconsin Dell shit, boating, fishing, outdoor shit. Yeah. Uh, also go to the woes, a wa fall festival. Woes, a wa W O Z H a W a spaces in between those, um, which translates to fun time to have fun, which seems redundant, but I mean, I guess it's not an exact translation. It's derived from, from the Ho-Chunk tribe, Jesus, it is a, landmines of watch out for slurs here it's just not our language Ho-Chunk they call it three unforgettable days of family fun local flavor live entertainment shopping and Wisconsin Dell's tradition and they have carnivals and farmers markets and antique markets and then the little priest singers will be there little priest singers a southern Ho-Chunk family drum group based in the Wisconsin Dell's these are like wearing the traditional tribal clothing don't worry Tony Rocker will be there at 7 though it just says live music on Elm Street doesn't say what he is Tony Rocker on Saturday night high mileage will be there oh boy oh yeah and then there's a parade yay okay not much going on crime rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime is about half the national average so pretty safe not a lot of stealing going on here people are too drunk to steal I feel like violent violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third beneath the national average so that's terrific yeah I'm sorry not beneath one third of the national average so two thirds low so it's oh even better pretty damn safe that said let's talk about some murder that happened here what do you say everybody let's do this okay wow is this a wild story by the way and if you really are interested in this story you can watch the entire trial on YouTube it's all there Court TV did an entire they have it all there's also several accounts several accounts that have all of the stuff and all the interrogations and everything so you can really get an ass load of this case which makes putting the case together very difficult because you have to decide what you can you can't have a nine hour show so no we have to decide kind of what belongs and what doesn't and you know because to me all the facts are according to Netflix James they'll watch it yes that you guys like the long episodes on there we hear so that's great around you'll stick around we appreciate that so let's start out at March 22nd 2018 so very recently yeah pretty much you know everything in your normal you still have the same phone an upgraded model of different operating system iTunes yeah we are literally on doing small-town murder right now as this is going on I'm sure an episode came out that day yeah so March 22nd 2018 4 p.m. this is about 415 actually to be fair here okay a 911 call comes in from a farmer like an 85 year old farmer here in the middle of nowhere in Wisconsin still farming still farming got nothing better to do where's he gonna go Don Sipple is his name okay this old man Don Sipple says quote I have a young lady that just came to my house and somebody attacked her pretty matter-of-factly he was sitting down to eat dinner when a young woman starts banging on his doorstep he's arrives at his doorstep banging on his door begging for help and Don's sitting down for dinner at 4:00 in the afternoon 4:15 to be fair to Don he is 85 and a farmer so between being 85 and a farmer I assume he gets up at about what 2:05 a.m. usually probably 1:15 maybe I'm 45 not a farmer and I dream of this day oh in bed by 7:00 ah yeah 4:00 is definitely 4:00 is lunch for me for sure that's not dinner I eat dinner like 10 o'clock at night usually yeah so yeah that's it's weird maybe give me another 40 years maybe I'll change my mind who knows man might turn my run this life difference I'm turn that clock this way a little bit so he when asked what he thought was happening when someone ran up to his door he say said quote I had I had no idea she kind of had like dried blood or something around her mouth no shoes on mud up to her knees oh she ran through a swamp you don't get this and on a farm in the middle of nowhere usually some stranger running up covered in blood with mud all over the place here by the way this comes from an interview with CBS News who did a lot of extensive coverage on this so gotta give them the credit that they deserve so he brought her inside being a friendly farmer and kind of a bloody young lady and she looks like great she might be late teens even so I'm like oh she's a young lady a young woman yeah so anybody who's 85 would take a grandfatherly or if they're gross they take a pedophile approach but either way certainly yeah they take some sort of one way or the other they're gonna have some interest in this young lady yeah whether to help her or do horrible things to her some one of the two one of the two and she running up to a dark farmhouse in this condition I'm sure was happy to see an 85 year old farmer you know what I mean rather than somebody else or whatever so he brings her in and she's like I don't know I'm gonna take care of myself I'm not gonna take care of myself I'm not gonna take care of myself I'm not gonna take care of myself I'm not gonna take care of myself I'm not gonna take care of myself you know he says because this is in March so it's cold you know it's still chilly in Wisconsin it doesn't get warm till what mid-july there till about first week of August it's warm yeah it's warm for about three four weeks and then it goes so miserable this is Jana Kramer from wind down with Jana Kramer I had this moment the other day where I thought why am I waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life and I'm like I don't need a week off just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing and so I went to resortpass.com there are hundreds of hotel resort pools spas and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night I booked a one-day pass at the Four Seasons Hotel in Spa Nashville and I'm like wow why am I just learning about resort pass I may have only been 15 minutes from home but it felt like a whole different world I found myself settled into a cabana just smiling umbrella drink my favorite book lunch brought right to me and I'm thinking this is exactly what I needed luxury resort day passes start at just $25 it's a great deal go to resortpass.com/janna and use my code Jana to get $20 off when you spend $100 that's code Jana at resortpass.com/janna this is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang this is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang you know when people try a new food and suddenly it's like wait that's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle you've probably seen it in the grocery store before and if you've ever just walked past it some people would say that's a huge mistake because this mayo is different most mayonnaise uses whole eggs Kewpie only uses egg yolks which gives it this rich umami flavor it's smoother deeper and almost buttery once people try it they start putting it on everything egg sandwiches fries burgers some fans even swear by dipping pizza crust and once you notice it you start seeing it everywhere chefs use it restaurants use it people who really care about flavor use it never tried it grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store put it on just about anything then you'll understand Kewpie the original Japanese mayonnaise I hope fall gets there by the time we get there that'd be nice in yeah on September the 18th we'll be at the Pabst Pabst yeah so and then the state theater in Milwaukee the next night be there anyway very nice night very next night September 19th State Theater Minneapolis uh so um she's this guy is clueless he brings her in here's a blanket he said quote she was cold and I think I'm sure in shock and then she said I was assaulted and then I went and got on the phone and called 9-1-1 and that's what happened here um she was bleeding her clothes were torn she's covered in mud I'm saying she's being attacked I mean anybody would call 9-1-1 in that situation right so once the police get there um you know there's a the uh body cam footage that they have or dash cam or one of the two where she says I'm so scared and they said where all are you hurting from right now the cop ass and she said everywhere and the cop said okay and she keeps asking for some she said please contact this person please contact Jason mangle please I need Jason mangle please contact Jason mangle and we'll find out who he is in a little while so she's taken to the hospital where she's treated and undergoes a sexual assault examination um completed by a sexual assault nurse examiner they have special people that are you know they're extra I'm sure nice yeah yeah probably ladies I would assume generally pretty gentle folks yeah yeah they get the nicest nurses and they're like you're gonna be the one that talks to people who come in having the worst day of their life okay you're gonna not the lady that's six days from retirement no this gig anymore no not the lady at the front desk that says sprinkler key sticking out of your eye that'll be three hours go sit down and doesn't even give you a second look without making eye contact they don't care so that is funny that they triage and take the most yeah take the most injured people my daughter had like a sprained ankle or a fucking emergency four hours a lady walked in bleeding my daughter goes great this bitch is going to die bitch is going before me oh yeah take it she's certainly going before you yeah great here's this bitch press she's bleeding calm down jesus christ she oh my god she has rebar sticking out of her chest we should probably let her go first you just called that bloody lady a bitch to her face come on you whining bitch look at this fucking whiner she's nothing but a whiner look at her faker malingerer absolutely she's bleeding i'm in pain there's a difference meanwhile she's sitting there a little ice on her ankle going this is wrong oh man so they using the this whole kit they examine abrasions and lacerations to various areas of this young lady's body okay um okay now lacerations to her left arm appear to be letters cut into her skin it's not appear to be the letters carved into her skin yeah spelling b-o-y boy uh-huh boy on her arm okay boy she says she cannot remember what happened or if she was sexually assaulted she has no idea what happened just has a word carved in her arm yeah covered in mud and blood and no idea what happens um so they do the sexual assault thing just in case because she says i don't know if i'm going to be able to do it i don't know if i'm going to be able to do it i don't know if i'm going to be able to do it i don't know if i'm going sexually assaulted so essentially this doctor takes a look at her and determines that they believe these wounds are self-inflicted oh we'll tell you how they believe that because it's it's just basic logic of of when you see of why that is um and refers her for a mental health evaluation okay um she's then admitted to a secure psychiatric unit and let's find out who this young lady is because right now she's like goldie hawn and overboard like she shows up she has no idea what's going on she's been battered a bit here any ghouli any ghouli now uh her name originally not what she's going by now and we'll get to that and we'll get to also identity and everything else is monica k that's what she's born okay yeah she's born as monica k later on and we'll find out why here she's born october 6th 1997 uh small town wisconsin kid um her mom was 14 oh boy 14 which i mean mom's a victim that's crazy yeah unless the father in 1997 that's a problem that's a you know that's a problem yeah yeah unless the father's an eighth grader and she's a ninth grader then i'll let it slide and uh you know but i mean obviously today that's a problem but uh in 1965 that's as long as you're married or whatever but today i was gonna say 97 that's a big problem we'd be planning a reception if this was 1965 people be deciding who's gonna bring the potato salad if it was 1965 yeah yeah for sure so her father ditches the family pretty much immediately because yeah why not um because he rapes kids james what does it say people who fuck 14 year olds generally they're not looking to settle down at that moment that's not a reliable guy it's strange right weird so mom ends up marrying a different guy who will raise her as his own okay okay um a guy named joe shane i believe is his name um so then those two mom and her dad essentially not biologically but joe right end up getting a divorce oh as well when she's about 11 or 12 she says she was in middle school at that point um she said that it was the household was like living with two tornadoes in one room at that all the time basically with those two volatile and yeah she said that they're both her joe and her mom were both very strong opinionated people and they would just often butt heads and my mom and uh my mom and she said that they would disagree about ways that he would discipline her as well and like rules for her and shit like that so they would argue um her mother's name is roselina or roselena by the way so then in uh later on um i guess this is okay that was when she changed her name by the way the guy joe shane's last name is carlin and that's the name she takes not george carlin like k-a-r-l-e-n so she's monica carlin at some point in there she takes that name so then after the divorce joe uh joe shane actually because he had adopted her and everything else they stay close and she goes and sees him on the weekends it's not like co-parent nice yeah it's that's her his daughter um now she'll end up going by a different name by the time she's at a farmer's door covered in mud and blood okay she's going by ezra mccandless okay i should pick those shits from mick candle and then with two s's so yeah mccandless and we'll i know i'll tell you exactly where it came from because she she says she's small too 52115 little tiny thing um um so why ezra why'd she pick this different name she said that she was going through a lot of changes when she was a teenager and the name best represented who she was she went on a family vacation she said and saw the name ezra somewhere i don't know some 90 cd possibly and uh yeah she thought it was it was a nice neutral name wasn't too feminine it wasn't too masculine and she didn't know how she felt at the time so she picked this name basically okay yeah um and by the way she will have a you know pronoun change for a while she'll go by the they thing but then by the time we're done with all this she's filing everything as she she she she she so that's why we're using she whatever we're not trying to do whatever we're just fucking that's what she calls herself she now so that's what we do so she um picked the last name mccandless for a guy named chris mccandless who is from into the wind or into the wild i'm sorry not into the wind oh from the book from the book and movie okay oh yes he also by the way if you don't know who he is he went by the pseudonym alexander super tramp which is a much more well a much more fun name on my new name yeah that's pretty great alexander super tramp yeah you can't i already uh i already uh copyrighted it for porn jimmy it's all mine i'm alexander super tramp take me away what does super tramp mean because that was a band and yeah yeah i don't know what it means evidently it's a big deal huh i guess if you're a hobo you're like the best hobo you ride the most rails you're super tramp wow i'm gonna be extra hobo that's gonna be my name when i'm out of things i use my bindle as a cape it's great yeah we uh he's an american adventurer who sought an increasingly nomadic lifestyle as he grew up just reading his description of who he is he graduated from emory university in 1990 and traveled across north america and hitchhiked to alaska in april of 1992 there he entered the alaskan bush with minimal supplies hoping to live simply off the land how about that you're gonna get eaten by a bear you're crazy gonna die that is unforgiving shit alaska it is not meant oh my god the weak and the unprepared are not not that he's weak but that's unprepared you have to be the wildlife regardless of whether you find a bear there's so many other things that'll kill you wolves like crazy up there yeah you'll never be found they'll eat your bones it's lousy with woods with wolves up there man it's crazy you're gonna be turned into something's shit no shit uh now on the eastern bank of the shoshana river this guy found in a found an abandoned bus fairbanks bus 142 which he used as a makeshift his final written journal entry noted day 107 that's what it was titled he made it fucking four months four months simply read beautiful blued berries days 108 through 112 contain no words and were only marked with slashes on day 113 there was no entry and um i feel like the berries probably weren't good yeah not a bad berry beautiful blue berries wow they make crazy colors man holy shit all i can write is a slap beautiful blue berries just had a conversation with several care bears things are going well they're not bears they're i can hear their stomachs growling they're going to eat oh no wait that's a grout care at all that's not a on your stomach is it oh no um so the basically near this time around this time he took a picture of himself waving while holding up a written note which said i have had a happy life and thank the lord goodbye and may god bless all and on september 16th 92 a hunter who was seeking shelter for the night discovered that the bus discovered this bus and entered the bus and found his body so decomposing remains in a sleeping bag he weighed only 67 pounds just you can't do it up there man no this guy grizzly man what is wrong with people nature is a nasty bitch man everybody to know it's you can't do it unless you own a house it's ridiculous there's a lot of debate by the way is officially ruled as starvation but there's a ton of debate as to how he really died even when you find a 67 pound man talking about i ate berries fucking emaciated in a sleeping bag there's still conspiracy theories it's crazy it's real we gotta stop dude with the conspiracy theories all the evidence right in front of your face and you're like yeah he was murdered there's cases where both sides agree on the facts and people are like nah nah i don't think so i think it's there it's like what are we talking about clearly more violence yeah it's so fucking weird so anyway in 1993 outside magazine uh wrote an article about him and then published into the wild the book which was then adapted into the 2007 film directed by sean penn actually right um starring emile hirsch playing him so a big movie um oh my god james i was thinking call of the wild i can't believe i nailed it right that it's it's still a book it's still well yeah that's the old book that they made you read in like seventh grade the call of the wild right wasn't it yeah i'm an embarrassment jack london or some shit yeah so well they actually made a documentary called call of the wild about him though so maybe you saw that well what the fuck maybe you saw that there's into the wild call the wild that was in 2007 was both the movie and the the documentary so either way now back to ezra um said she identified as more masculine in high school and then got more back into femininity femininity and said she was more fluid and she now now she's back all right now very artsy super into art i think she just a lot of people just have an open mind and that's their artsy a lot of times so they think about things well is this actually how i feel about it i don't know i don't know about this is this actually how i feel about that so she was real into art since she was you know four or five years old and all that kind of thing wow um yeah uh after high school she attended college to pursue a degree in art but dropped out in the first year um as ezra does with a lot of things yeah well as as arts people do yeah as they do yeah that's the thing now her parents said well if you're not going to go to school then you need to get a job and help out at home essentially go to school or get a job pick a part of it yeah it's fine so she decided to couch surf and sleep in her car instead of doing that no not that how about i sleep in my car um all right by the way about her car she has like a you know a 2015 or so impala or whatever a white one oh chevy and she does artwork on her car and like a bunch of it like her whole roof is decorated with like it looks like a bird like a crow riding a bicycle kind of thing but i actually dig her style it's a lot like her style is very ralph stedman-y to me you know ralph stedman is no you know that is ralph stedman you know you know exactly you've seen his picture because i have one of his drawings of hunter thompson on my living room wall oh okay yeah okay i could see it yeah he's the guy who does all the thin lines yeah chaos and like aggressive chaotic yeah colored in an interesting way and angles are interesting it's very much look up ralph stedman stuff i got a shitload of his stuff i love ralph stedman shit because it's like he would write draw the pictures to hunter thompson stories basically yeah in a lot of roles it's chaotic it's it's uh yeah it's not yeah real uniform it's not traditional drawings it's but you look at it you go wow that's very interesting yeah it's very yeah well the chaos a lot of his drawings comes from the fact that he's drawing hunter thompson who is in a constant state of chaos so that's how he sees him and draws him other shit that he draws isn't so chaotic but it's got that same style of lines and thicker to thinner and things like that so yeah yeah a lot of hard lines and pretty cool things are kind of harsh so um she found herself and hanging out in uh eau claire the college town there yeah in eau claire wisconsin which is about 20 minutes away from springbrook by the way um there in july of 2017 she met a man okay yeah all right and not even really a young man i was going to say a young man but he's 33 years old so he's not even really that young at the time she's 19 he's 33 uh jason mengel and i've seen his name spelled either m-e-n-g-a-l or m-e-n-g-e-l i've seen it spelled both ways on like on like official documents so i have no fucking idea um now he's an army reservist okay he's a medic in the army so he goes off and does some stuff i don't think he has a car because he's always on a bicycle in this story really yeah he gets around pretty good on a bicycle but he's always on a bicycle and he lives in like this college town so that's kind of fine in a college town everything's kind of close par for the course yeah like we've been to like madison a bicycle would be the appropriate way to get around there it seems like yeah as long as you live in a specific area but yeah some of that area yeah as long as you live near the college if you live out in the woods of yeah madison you ain't getting around shit on a bike no no you're gonna be you better have a fucking specifically bike yeah yeah that's gonna be tough a little bit tougher yeah that that madison they are man that is a drunk town boy oh boy you know i've been there during winter they don't plow like they plow back east like they plow the main roads but the side streets you're on your own tough shit yeah put some uh get some snow tires asshole that's that's all there is to it wow so this jason um jason is outside of reese's coffee place which is our racy's i'm sorry racy's coffee racy delaney's i believe it's called um which is where this is the coffee house everybody hangs out at everybody is always at this place um people end up working there they go there hang out there for hours it's like uh yeah it's like it's like a kevin smith movie like they're all like sitting around talking about comic books in a coffee shop for hours or something it's an interesting you know it's kids will do that kids and i mean he's a 30 something year old man but that's what i was kids find that one spot still and they congregate there it's yeah so this guy he's he had a flat tire on his bike you're 33 and you're sitting outside the college coffee place bummed out because you're got a flat on your fucking 10 speed you got to re-examine your life at that point this is not a good idea you're not going to be able to do that you're not going to be able to do that so you have had planned race is that hard reset yep so there's a nighttime barista that's working named alex woodworth um now alex gives jason because everybody knows each other they all know each other he gives jason some leftover coffee that they had you know they're gonna throw it anyway um gives it to him in a to-go cup and locks the doors and tells jason to you know i guess hang out on the bench you can hang out in front of the bench so now he's sitting there looking like kind of bummed out and looking like a lost puppy so that catches the attention of a young lady ezra she pops up and some people just need to bring in the strays and that's all there is to it that's what they're looking for collectors um exactly so she popped up and said what's the matter and they ended up talking for hours oh after that just for hours about everything they exchanged as social media info and all that kind of shit um so they go from like messaging on instagram that's their way of communicating and then within about two and a half weeks they're living together very quick not two and a half weeks to exchanging phone numbers no no no two and a half weeks and she gave him the he gave her the front door key two and a half weeks from what's the matter to yeah this chick's moving in with us i'm going to bed honey when are you climbing in yeah yeah exactly yeah which is a wild decision on both of their parts and this is a 33 year old man with a bike and a roommate also like what there's there's another person oh yeah he doesn't live on his own oh my god he people with you know i don't know any sort of upward anything don't just sit around going man my bike tire's flat oh yeah on a bench like you gotta have some movement and he has none yeah if a bike tire uh hamstrings your day at 33 my guy you gotta you gotta get it together and your roommate won't give you a ride you gotta that's a problem a lot of levels so jason's a medic in the army reserves like we said so he would have to be away for weeks at a time once in a while and ezra does not like that at all at all they're not yeah not into that she doesn't like him leaving at all okay which she's got abandonment issues yeah obviously you know what i mean never knew her real father very much or the stepfather kind of they got broken up and all that kind of thing so she gets upset if a guy leaves she assumes he's never coming back you know basically yeah if he's going to get a pizza she's coming with because he might not come back she's terrified yeah yeah Thank you. So Jason was all- My ass, I'm getting in the car. Yeah, fuck that. No, no, no. Yeah, sure you want sausage. I'm coming with. So she was, he's also critical of the fact that she's kind of very affectionate with other dudes in their social circle. Okay. They have a pretty good social circle, a bunch of people they hang out with. And yeah, she's very kind of friendly. And you know those girls. Sometimes it's fine, and then sometimes it can make you uncomfortable or whatever the fuck. And sometimes you've got to just loosen up and realize that, grow up. You know, and like, don't be so upset about shit like that. At 33, that shouldn't be your concern. Unless she's following them somewhere and blowing them. I mean, whatever. Yeah, if she's rubbing on their balls or something, that's a different thing. But if she's just a friendly person with their friends, you should like that she's friendly, I guess. Yeah, some people show their emotions physically. Yeah. Now, this is from Ezra. She said, Wow. I guess she was living with her mother in Stanley, Wisconsin at the time. Okay. So they said that the texting went on, and it led to dating. And she said that, quote, I would say would be the word we fell in love quite fast because we just had so much in common. And how in the beginning of that age difference, specifically the age difference, well, I wasn't concerned necessarily that we had an age gap. I felt a bit awkward that he was so much older. He was even older than me. He was even close to my own parents' age. Her mom. Oh, yeah, because her mom's 14. 14 years, 1933. How many years is that? Oh, my God. They're the same age. Same. Not close. Fucking age. Oh, my God. Has her mother. Which, I mean, I guess that could happen when you have a 14-year age difference between parent and child. But that's right away you'd go, ooh, you're the same age as my mom. You're the same age as my parents. That's kind of weird, right? Sure makes it relatable, though, doesn't it? Makes it easier. Yeah. Well, I mean, any amateur psychologist can dig into that one and understand what's going on here. But, you know, we're not going to bother with it. Looking for dad, and that would be about the right age. Exactly. The same age as her parents. Yeah. That's what's crazy. Jason said, I was 33 at the time. She was 19, I believe. She kept me energized. You're not 73. She kept me. Boy, I was just spending my nights sitting in the recliner, sitting on the rocking chair, just whittling, you know, just waiting to die. And she came in, and boy, I felt so much more energy now. Really lights up her room, this gal. Oh, boy. Makes an old man get that youthful spark. Yeah, you know the spark. You know how it feels. Down in your nether regions. You know how that kind of goes. I don't like somebody that's dating somebody 14 years younger. And she's still a teenager. I don't like him saying, she energized me. That's gross. That's what I mean. It's creepy as shit. Yeah. That's something that old people say when they get a puppy. Or what old people say. This puppy's energized me. Yeah. When their children bring the grandchildren around. Yeah, the kids give me energy or whatever the fuck it is. It's not the person you're fucking. Right. He said she kept me doing things, and I was very spur of the moment, too. Yeah. He said she was full of surprises, because he didn't even know that wasn't her real name, Ezra. He said, I just knew her as Ezra. She did not like being called Monica. Doesn't like Monica. He said, Eau Claire's a big little town. Everybody kind of knows everybody. And everybody knew Ezra, because she was the chick who had a goddamn car with painted drawings all over it. That person stands out. So, it's white or silver or something. But, yeah, it's got like a bird riding a bicycle. It looks like a raven or a crow. Jason said she was wild. She'd always be like trying to break into abandoned buildings and take photos, which is half of YouTube now. Is that wild? It's not really that wild in 2000. That's what, like when we were doing that in the 90s, it was probably more, because we weren't documenting anything. We were just checking it out, looking for places. Finger each other and smoke weed and drink beer. Probably throw something heavy through an old pane of glass to see what it does. Oh, if you find a toilet that's still intact. My God, the fun of that. Jesus. They're so heavy. Jimmy's laughing because he knows. They're so heavy. But, boy, do they explode. Oh, boy. How high can we get it up there? Oh, my God. I'm telling you. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try and. Try a new food and suddenly it's like, wait. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. It's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it in the grocery store before. And if you've ever just walked past it, some people would say that's a huge mistake. Because this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Kewpie only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor. It's smoother, deeper, and almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on. On everything. Egg sandwiches, fries, burgers. Some fans even swear by dipping pizza crust in it. And once you notice it, you start seeing it everywhere. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really care about flavor use it. Never tried it? Grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. This is Jana Kramer from Wine Down with Jana Kramer. 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So you can enjoy a leaner physique, surging energy, and increased drive. Visit bioma.health/glp1 and use code CRSHOW to get 15% off your first order. That's bioma.health/glp1. Code CRSHOW for 15% off. Yeah. 15% off. Yeah. Teenage kids are assholes. But that she'd break into him. Well, he's like, you know, at my age, that's a little much. I'm not, you know, I'm pushing it. Climbing a fence that's six feet high. Who knows what'll happen? Come down. My hips aren't what they used to be. Obviously, 33 isn't old. We're much older and who cares? So, the couple lives together and they even talk about marriage. What? Jason said, "I would call her wife and she would call me. She would call me husband." Problem is, they have as many problems as a couple that's been married for 20 years and they're brand new. That's the problem. Why? Well, we don't know exactly what it is, but Ezra would tell friends here that Jason was more controlling than she would like him to be. But the problem is that she is very controlling also. Like he's not allowed to go anywhere he wants and see whoever he wants. What? She's got to approve of all that too. But she doesn't like it the other way around. Yeah. She doesn't like it the other way around also. So, it's interesting. I guess Jason would have a Monday standing date where he'd play Dungeons and Dragons with his friends. So, it's D&D night on Monday nights. That's what happens. Yeah. He tried to get Ezra involved so they could hang out more and she could kind of get more in the group and all that kind of thing. Yeah. She gave up after one session. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be real into that stuff and honestly too, there's a certain. You got to be pretty smart to play that goddamn game. There's a lot of shit to remember and a lot of stuff going on. So, I don't know. It's just you've got to be dedicated. to doing this, because it's not fucking sorry or uno. No, no, no. This is going to be intense. It's like playing fucking Risk or something. This is a big undertaking. It's going to take a while. And when we go home, it's not because the game's over. It's because we'll pick it up next time. Yeah. It's because we're all filthy and we could start to smell. We need to sleep. Yeah. We're a bunch of smelly nerds at this point. This is bad. So, then she would try to get Jason to stop going to these Dungeons and Dragons nights. She would say that she was depressed and she would even threaten that she would hurt herself if she was left alone. I can't be left alone right now. So, then he would stay home. So, that's kind of how all this is going on here. Now, in February, actually, we'll wait until then and talk about it here. In August, August 8th, 2017, she is at a bar called The Joint with Jason. It's Ezra and Jason hanging out. Now, she sees Alex Woodworth. Remember we mentioned him? He's the barista who gave leftover coffee to Jason as he sat out there. Now, Alex. Yeah. Alex, the barista, is inside The Joint hanging out. Now, there's groups of people hanging out being social. He's alone, by himself, very focused and writing in a journal. Just writing. Okay. Okay. Which is a strategy to get chicks, by the way, too. You can either be real gregarious or be stoic and weird in the corner. Maybe they'll come to you. It's one of those things. Or sit there with a guitar that you don't know how to play. Exactly. And just look at sheet music and wait for your penis to be gobbled. Yeah. Move your fingers around, just like, if I do, but don't play it, that'll work. And then wait to finish in somebody's throat. Yeah. That doesn't seem to be his strategy, though. He seems to be really actually into this writing here. So, the bar is by the coffee shop, by the way. Now, he's sitting alone, and he's writing in the journal, and she's intrigued by seeing someone writing amongst all these people. You know, not being social. This guy is Alexander Lehman Sidney Woodworth. Alex Woodworth. Born January 1st, 1994. A couple years older than her. He is from St. Croy Falls in Polk County, Wisconsin. He's got parents named Josh and Kimberly, and he's got two brothers and a sister. Alex is the oldest of four. Okay. He attended high school and graduated in 2012, and then he went to the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, which is why he's here. Essentially. Now, in spring of 2017, he received his bachelor's degree in philosophy and biology. Oh. Heady shit, basically. Yeah. And things that don't normally go, those are different sides of the brain working. Yeah, but it's. The science and the philosophy side. Yeah, that's interesting. That ain't the cut and dry biology side, so this guy's got both sides of his brain working, which is pretty impressive. He planned to attend graduate school at the University of Oregon to get his master's degree in philosophy. That's what he wants. Oh. Yeah. So, he was working at the coffee shop. He was a tutor on campus and also taught a few philosophy classes at a local high school around there that had an honors program for it. So, that's what he was into. He even started up a philosophy book-reading club as well that he hung out with, which is cool. He wants to be a philosophy professor at the University of Oregon. That's his dream, essentially. Oh. Yep. Hangs out at coffee places for hours, writes a lot, because the manager of the coffee place, too, I saw her testimony, said that even before he worked there, and even when he worked there and he wasn't on shift, he was still always at the coffee shop. He was just there all the time. May as well pick up a shift if you're going to be here this much. That's kind of why he got a job there. They were like, you know. If you're here so much, you could be a bar stool. Yeah. It's exactly like Goodfellas. He could be a fucking stool. Guys, here, another few minutes, he could be a fucking stool. Why don't I make a restaurant? He knows everything about the restaurant, but he's always there. All right. You could help him. You could help him. What do I know about the restaurant business? I know I sit down, order a meal. I don't know anything about the restaurant business. You want me to help you? I can help you. Maybe I can help you. He puts his hand on him. I don't know. All right. There's a lot of. That scene is so my grandfather. My grandfather looked just like Paul Sorvino and acted like him, too. He was real calm. Which one? My grandfather? My grandfather, Paul Sorvino. They're both dead. You don't have a grandfather anymore. I love Paulie. Paulie's my favorite. When they show him. He just seems so sweet. When they show him, when they're describing the whole, how the mafia works and everything, Goodfellas, and there's slow zoom on him outside with the wife beater on, eating the sausage and peppers, it literally gives me goosebumps because it's like my grandfather's fucking sitting there eating a sausage and peppers. Just sitting in a lawn chair. And my grandfather loves sausage and peppers. He's always eating. I mean, it's like I get like a, oh, my God, like this weird feeling every time I see it. Always. I love Paul, too. He's great. It's so great that they got a Paul to play Paulie. And he's the most Paulie that's ever Paulie. He's so good. And he's so not Paulie in real life. That's the other thing, too. He's such like he's a he's an actor and a very, like, you know, theater type of. Juilliard trained. Yeah, that's what I mean. Brilliant man. He's not, you know, Paulie Walnuts. That's different. That guy's really like that. Streets guy. Yeah. So now Jason, her boyfriend, says about Alex, quote, he was the nicest guy, big nerd. He was definitely one of those deep thinkers. I've never seen someone so obsessed and completely devoted to philosophy. He would bring it to the bar. He would bring it home. He would be researching books on Amazon in his spare time. So into it. Yeah. I guess. I mean, I'm real dumb. But how do you bring it? You're reading somebody else's philosophy on everything? Is that what it is? I guess. I guess you're reading. Yeah. I guess you're trying to figure out. I've never taken any philosophy. I got a GED. No. No one would have taught me that. But the book of philosophy is the last thing I want to read. No, absolutely. But I guess that's opening your mind to different thoughts of your own philosophies that you could have if other people have stuff that's not, you know, that might be a different thought, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. she read august 8 2017 so it's what he was writing at that time quote primal man's experiences of encounter were scarcely a matter of tame delight but even violence against a being one really confronts is better than ghostly solitude for faceless digits i and thou page 75 is what that says that's definitely words that's a quote there's quotes around that so i think that's a quote from i and thou i would assume the book okay and then he goes on to his own writing wow i'm oddly preoccupied with the concept of cannibalism oh really oh my uh not quite with actual cannibalism as practiced but rather with the indwelling metaphors our understanding actually works with cannibalism deals primarily with our own awareness of being flesh that another human could literally eat me raises odd anxieties over what i actually am to another i can be rendered mere meat reduced to a body in the most vicious way beyond anxiety the phenomenon reaches an utter truth an uncanny awareness that cannibalism is not merely eating a corpse deprived of its humanness but is precisely consumption of a human by a human cannibalism reaches a root as old as birth my flesh is my humanity for both are what is at stake in it what made me being what made me a being is precisely what lets me lose myself so viscerally okay that's what he says so maybe philosophy is not good well i have to the act of cannibalism he boils it down to what am i really it's that that's a moving further into figuration cannibalism reduces me into my being another's meal literally in vivid imagery but essentially you get what i'm saying here so then talk about vampires versus cannibals a vampire is perhaps less invasive just the blood not the flesh there's a lot of uh okay but this is all philosophical stuff i mean philosophy is essentially yeah like mental masturbation you know what i mean and i don't mean that in an insulting way but it's none of this shit matters is it's just stuck you're thinking of it's questions and then you fill them in with uh what you already know minus whatever you're going to go research it's not a science it's not figuring out how to make an engine run more you know efficiently it's it's a creative thing and it's part art and part this and so it's an interesting thing so she says that yeah um she was interested in this and she says cannibalism is mentioned in this essay a few times and it goes on to deal with the concepts of metaphorical cannibalism and the concept of cannibalism itself as what cannibalism renders you as and the anxieties and fears of being a meal in its sense is it so that's that's what how she determines or yeah interprets what it is metaphorically cannibalize somebody i guess just render them uh useless you take from them what you need i guess i well i think she was saying the um just the metaphorical meaning i don't think what the metaphorical part of cannibalism is but she he was talking about cannibalism possibly metaphorically using it for something else i'm thinking possibly using cannibalism as a metaphor for something we don't know also she says the concept of cannibalism itself as what cannibalism renders you as and the anxiety and fears of being a meal in a sense so it's i think it's she doesn't i don't think she knows whether it's a metaphorical cannibalism or actual like what would it be like to be eaten yeah yeah so um so she says philosophical in nature as opposed to literal literal in nature um she thought it was quite a peculiar subject cannibalism and quote i was interested in what he meant what i understood he was speaking of it philosophically and i also wanted his ideas and his concepts of literally cannibalism like this is philosophically but for real for real yeah what would you put on a person's thigh meat right garlic powder with dill what are we doing what are we getting into yeah so she said so we talked back and forth for a few um about artists that have taken part in cannibalism what there's been artists that have done this before really yes have you ever seen there was a character that um uh sasha baron cohen did i think it's the one of his newer shows okay where he pretends to be uh one of his characters is a prison artist a guy who just got out of prison for murder and he's an artist but he makes his art now he's a chef but he makes his food out of like crazy things like his own shit is in one meal and like his own semen is in something and it's just to see how pretentious this guy he's serving is if you give him a pretentious enough story will he even knowing there's semen and feces in it will eat it anyway and of course he did so the last thing he gives him is a fucking condom yeah that you cut open and inside like a sausage is the meat yes is the meat of a chinese dissident okay and he's and he says you know he's been purchased and his his family's okay with it and it helps them and all this stuff so this is a humane way to actually let him live on and not that's actually i've seen this yeah it helps him live on and the guy's like yep i totally get it and takes it amazing eats it yes people are pretentious and they will eat people if it makes them feel like they're gonna that's very funny shit i gotta say that was amazing when he's doing that and people are he's amazing and his artwork is that guy too when he's the prison artist when he gets that art critic lady to give him a bunch of pubes that he can put on a brush she's like thrilled to do it to join the the pube brush with all the other artists pubes okay we gotta stop talking about this okay i love him i just it's so funny goddamn love him so they talk about artists that have taken part in cannibalism and he mentioned we spoke about his anxieties of what it means for someone to consume another and what he did say at that time um when we were deep in this discussion he was we talked about he mostly talked about the philosophical sense and he also mentioned the fact that often individuals partook in cannibalism because it was in essence a consumption of one's power to take in another's flesh uh to do that which i think that sounds like a almost like a struggle somewhere on an island somewhere that was probably how you took somebody's i don't know i mean it didn't you don't have to go back that far dahmer literally said he ate them to keep them with him forever absolutely i meant as like a societal thing like we all under like ten thousand years ago we might have all understood that like that well yeah or felt it to be real yeah well yeah you're taking his essence obviously yeah that's what you do but like you know by 1993 we were like that's not how you do that no because i've eaten so many steaks and not once have i felt the essence of a cow i've never i've never mooed out of nowhere i've never chewed cut never this doesn't seem like a bad thing but all right i did throw up but i did not chew it no i didn't chew it now jason pulls ezra aside with this deep conversation they're having here about all this and tells him he's a little uncomfortable with him being her being so involved and grossed in this conversation with this guy about cannibalism even though he said i brought them together and thought they should hang out more it's very strange i hate that you're doing the relating that i said you should do you should exactly uh she also said at one point that she didn't feel uh she didn't feel like jason respected her humanity and independence and she told jason that so jason backed off and said oh my bad i mean yeah he said you know i guess you guys want to be friends with them be friends with them i guess i don't know didn't mean that didn't mean to come at you essentially yeah and this is what she said um she said jason pulled me aside and he kind of interrupted our conversation um and she said well i i felt that my conversation was cut short and i had plenty more to talk about um so then we all went out for a smoke and we started talking meaning her and alex we started talking about our love for spiders because we both noticed a spider in the windowsill or the spider in a spider web because it's wisconsin and every building's covered in spiders the biggest fucking spider you've ever seen that was ridiculous it's so big ridiculous yeah so um so this conversation was a while um they said their conversation was about an hour at that point whatever so they're friends and they're going on that's that's august and they're talking back and forth fair now at the same time in october she says she was throwing up for a couple weeks and decided to go take a pregnancy test and take it um so she went and bought one from the test from the gas station and she said it was positive positive so so she told jason about it and She said he seemed anxious, and he wanted to go to get the test confirmed at the doctor's. And it was really hard to read what he was thinking at the time. So she went to the doctor's and found out she was pregnant. And she said that she decided ultimately to terminate the pregnancy. She said, I wasn't sure what to do. At the time, I was scared and so young and so confused. So she said she felt afterwards, though. She felt very empty and felt very like she needed someone to be there for her. And she said that her and Jason, this made them drift apart more than bring them together. Yeah. Daddy has a roommate, baby. You made the right decision. Yeah, I have a roommate, and you live in your car. Right. But, yeah, I mean, whatever it is. I mean, I don't know. Also, too, if you go from hormones and then not having the hormones, it's a big hormonal change and all that kind of thing, too. And we're not going to pretend we know what it's like to be 19 and be pregnant. We have no idea. So she said that she told Jason that she didn't really want him in the bedroom right after that. She said, I felt overwhelmingly ashamed, and it caused a lot of distance between us. And he began sleeping on the couch. And he rejected physical intimacy, even rejected holding my hand at times. Oh. So that's what she said. So this caused a real weird. Big strain. Big strain thing. And also, this was on her birthday that she had the procedure done, too, on her 20th birthday. Oh, boy. Now, Jason told her that he was still super in love with her, but just kind of felt shut down inside. And they became less intimate, and he started sleeping on the couch. So now, by November, he and his friend went hiking in the Redwoods. For, I don't know, like a week or so. Yeah. And she used the time he's gone to get closer to Alex. Right. Okay. And they began fucking, of course. Because why not? So the relationship becomes sexual. Alex is totally into her. He wrote about his feelings of longing and frustration, everything else. He's always doing that. And so she kind of also said she might leave Jason. Jason for good, as we're saying, that maybe, you know, me and you can be together. But then Jason would come back from his trip, and then she'd be with Jason and not be with Alex for a while. So it was kind of, she always needs to have somebody there. She needs affection every day, all day. Yeah. If someone's gone for the day, well, someone's got to fill in for that affection. She needs somebody to be with. She said that Jason was, quote, micromanaging me, and we had just started to grow apart as a couple. And she said. She said that he never hit me, but he would be very erratic with his gestures, and sometimes he would throw things or break things, and that just made me uneasy. Which makes sense. So he frustratedly throws things because he's not in touch with his feelings enough to handle frustration. All that frustration he should have had to begin with because he's 33, rides a bike, and has a roommate. So all he should be have that level of frustration to begin with that. He should be dealing with anyway. Channel that anger and frustration into finding a way out of being dependent upon another adult to keep life going. Totally. Well, then he's also, though, I mean, he's in a fucking weird situation, too, with this. He's also in a relationship with a person that's so much younger than him that he's perpetuating this cycle of being codependent. Yeah. He's got another person that's codependent. He's obviously got some issues of his own. There's some issues. This is terrible. And we don't know where he came from with his background. We have no idea what kind of – if that's his thing, too. So she says, though, that at times he would criticize my makeup. He would say I look like a clown or he would criticize my weight, even though at the time I was very small. And so, yeah, he could just pick on anything. So she says – She talks about Jason and she said that he reminded me of my father, the one who adopted her, which is why she's with him to begin with because he went away. So now the Alex thing gets a little bit more. She said that we talk more at the coffee shop and they'd go on long walks with each other and they'd get close. And she said that they would close up the restaurant coffee shop and do all – they'd be the last. They'd be the last patrons there and she'd be the last patron there. And they'd talk about life itself and they'd talk about nature and how I viewed things. And then Alex would talk about how he would view things and his philosophies and his ramblings. And he would say – oftentimes he'd say I was the yin to his yang because a lot of his philosophies countered mine because mine are very in the sunlight and sunshine and his are very much a rainy day. In the shadows. In the shadows. Oh, look at him stare here. Yeah. And when you look at Alex, that's not what he comes – he's not one of those douches too. No? No. He just looks like a totally normal guy. He's not like – He's not like My Chemical Romance or anything? Yeah. I know exactly – we're picturing the same – we're picturing Winona Ryder, Beetlejuice male version and it's not him. That's not him at all. He looks like a normal college kid. He just looks normal. Pete, whatever the fuck his name is. Yeah, yeah. Doherty or something. Yeah. Oh, the – The 80s professional WWF jobber, Pete Doherty, the Duke of Dorchester, you mean? He's getting – that's his first time he's ever been mentioned on Netflix, I bet. Ever in history. I don't know if Pete's still alive, but if he is, you're welcome, Pete. He should be very happy that you knew exactly who he was. A fucking mid-80s jobber for the WWF. So anyway, they're in a section. They're in a sexual relationship, whether it's a rainy or a sunny fucking philosophy. Whatever. Either way. Yeah. It's a dickin' philosophy. So there's a lot – and Alex's journals, by the way, he writes on a lot of topics such as internal pain and loneliness, self-sacrifice, violence, cannibalism. One person says that Woodworth looks as an individual that comes back from the dead and cannibalism, specifically consuming an individual. So that the person they loved would never leave them. Dahmer's philosophy there. Very Wisconsin. Very – yeah. This is – what is going on in Wisconsin? I don't know. How many people are having these thoughts? Although Dahmer was like, how do I make a zombie, whereas this guy is just in philosophy. This is not what he's actually doing. So now Jason finds out about the relationship with Alex as far as the physical end of it here and confronted. He confronted Ezra, and her response was that Alex had taken advantage of her. Uh-oh. Okay. She skirts responsibility, huh? She said, he took advantage of me. Now that this has been going on for – they've had sex more than once. This is – so Jason said, so I went to Alex, he said. And he said, I confronted him about all this stuff like, you're my friend. You know, I love you. How could you do this to me? Right. Right. Right. And later on, there's a prosecutor that said, I think Jason has a very big heart. But I also think his big heart, you know, led him to be very manipulated. He's easily manipulated here. So by February of 2018, Ezra is living with Jason and his roommate, a different guy named Alex. Perfect, of course. Alex Zink, this guy. So he's living with them. She worked at Joanne's Fabrics for a minute. Oh, this is Alex. Alex is a female. No, no, no. I'm talking about Ezra worked at Joanne's Fabrics. Oh, is that right? The other Alex is Alex Zink, and it's a man, Jason's roommate, okay? She worked at Joanne's Fabrics. Jason said that every time she would give him money for, like, bills and shit, though, she'd, like, need some of it back because she didn't have enough money. Then, when he was out of town for army shit, she'd go fuck Alex Woodworth. Oh, boy. Or other people, as we'll find out about, too. What the fuck? Okay. So Ezra and Jason's roommate, Alex, are always fighting, by the way. Yeah. Because if you move into a place with a person, and then they move their boyfriend, girlfriend in, you're pissed. Yeah, right. Because now they're taking up the living room all the time, and now you've got to go sit in a fucking room like you're their child. Like, that's crazy. Now your egg pan is in the sink, and it stinks. And it stinks, and now she's making shit that you don't want. Yeah. Yeah. What's this in here? Whose is that? It turns into a mess. Your bathroom has more stuff in it. Fuck no. No? Good for you. Fuck no. Well, no. I was married. I had an egg pan left in my sink. I poured the water out and went and put it on his fucking bed. I was like, we don't just leave this shit. You want it to stink somewhere? Let it stink in your fucking room. Don't let it stink up my fucking house. My first own place was with a woman, so. Not a roommate. Yeah, yeah. I bought a house when I was. - I was young, too young to own a house. fuck i was doing and i'd let two fucking idiots move in of course one of them still owes me a lot of money uh but the other one just left fucking it's been 25 years yeah oh i'll never fucking forget it if i see him i'm taking that money out of his fucking mouth this was pre-911 everybody this was a while ago i'm never going to forget he's like you're gonna pay me that money because i'm going on a vacation to new york to go up to the top of the twin towers god damn it this is my dream i want that panoramic photo that's right oh christ so um anyway uh jason noticed that basically um this is all going on and now jason is away for a while um while and alex the roommate basically said well while he's gone either help out around the house or fuck off like get out of here yeah so she moved out and broke up with jason via text message your roommate told me to do things he evidently has not heard what i did to my mother yeah exactly i lived in a fucking car because somebody asked me to help out say i will not help out at all so he started distancing himself a little bit here um basically because his friends had said when you're not around ezra's like out all night she's always with that alex woodworth they look like a couple when they're hanging out together and all this sort of shit so he's still in love with her though and basically still sees her sometime because she still lives at home so when she doesn't want to be at home and doesn't have anywhere to go she'll still go over there and hang out and bang jason so um he would get a hotel for them and they'd start you know whatever so one night here um this is interesting okay um there's a friend of his was one of his best friends basically here um now he he had some he thought that maybe his friends were being a little too hard on ezra saying that she's out all the time so he decides this is never a good idea when she's in the shower he's gonna check her phone oh god okay it's already over it's that's it you just it's already done um if you have any inkling to look in that phone just break up break up if you have a reason to look you don't need to just you don't need to nope you don't need to that means there's problems either with you or with them right don't validate what you already suspect if you already suspect it then the trust is over and either they're actually doing it so they shouldn't be in a relationship or they're not and you shouldn't be in a relationship because you're spying on people so either way it's over yeah so he looks he's he's trying to find to see if she's still hooking up with alex that's the point here okay instead he learns she's actually hooking up with somebody completely different than alex also his best friend john hansen feel better about how do you feel now yeah whoops they'd been they'd been fucking around for like a month now and now you know that now you know all about it um so he took pictures of the phone screen in case she tried to erase the text and she was like oh my god so he took his phone out click click click and got all pictures all this shit here's one of the transcript uh transcriptions here this is uh february 11th 2018 we kind of jump into the middle of a conversation john says nice and ezra says it's stressful looking for places so that would be nice to relive working out again does really make you want to fuck everything that's moved might also be a predator okay that's what ezra she loves to fuck oh yeah and john says a body in motion wants to stay in motion um ezra says quote are you gonna pound this anytime soon are you gonna pound this anytime soon unless she's holding her fist out that is a very specific thing that is wild couldn't be more obvious what's going on are you gonna pound this anytime what i got a pussy that's growing cobwebs over here get over here and bang the bejesus out of me please an unpounded pussy gathers moss gathers moss exactly so she's she says that then she says sorry i'm rude john not this week i have warren it's all right to be blunt just gotta be all right with it coming back your way i don't know what that means so ezra then said just let me know when i can get my next in and out and spells it like the burger place and then puts a smiley face on it who has used a winky that phrase my next in and out before the you know i mean who's not 40 a 19 year old 50 for sure right i would think so hey we're gonna get our what do you want some in and out tonight huh sweetheart i'm gonna get a little in and out so yeah with a winky face and then said i'm gonna get a little in and out and then said i'm gonna get a little in and out and then said i'm gonna get a little in and out and then said it would also be nice to hang out and do art again you are more than just a good friend well yeah obviously he's taking your hometown yeah clearly um so she said oh that could be nice i don't know what i guess he says something else but i don't know what this is and she says maybe oh that should oh that should be nice he's such a cool kid oh because he said i'm with i'm gonna be with warren that's right that's his son that's this john's son okay that's what this is this is janna kramer from wind down with janna kramer i had this moment the other day where i thought why am i waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life i don't need a week off just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing and so i went to resort pass.com there are hundreds of hotel resort pools spas and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night i booked a one-day pass at the four seasons hotel in spa nashville and i'm like wow why am i just learning about resort pass i may have only been 15 minutes from home but it felt like a whole different world i found myself settled into a cabana just smiling umbrella drink my favorite book lunch brought right to me and i'm thinking this is exactly what i needed luxury resort day passes start at just 25 it's a great deal go to resortpass.com slash janna and use my code janna to get 20 off when you spend a hundred dollars that's code janna at resortpass.com slash janna john says why thank you he is a good kid i'm looking forward to spending some dad time with him so as they're going back and forth talking about children and pound town within three text messages that's great take you to pound town your kid's adorable by the way you're gonna pound this pussy god your kid's adorable she said that melts my heart i'd love to paint with him sometime yeah then the next day she says feeling like a snake today what's wriggling in your mind and she he said i've just been with warren all day my mind is pretty preoccupied i'm busy i'm with a child no time for your pussy right now i see your horny text and i raised you uh a way to dry that thing right up not interested so she says that's understandable dad time and stops texting him because she took the hint in other words don't have time for you bitch you ain't that important to me i'm with the son what's wriggling she tries to throw a penis reference in yeah fuck yeah so she says this is now february 14th valentine's day see something say nothing and drink to forget happy valentine's that's her like her phrase and should be on a greeting card that's very lovely it's nice john says that's beautiful ezra happy valentine's day and she says i have a way with warren words john ha ha ha okay so if you just read this they're fucking obviously pound for sure you're gonna pound this in and out yeah so jason she comes out of the shower and he's like what the fuck is this screenshots and shit what the fuck heard you like an animal style bitch so she said no no no you're misunderstanding this isn't actually what it seems like uh-huh because i ask you when are you going to compound this all the time right what are you going to do you're going to do is it i'm like you're flying in tuesday right because you got to pound this like i say that all the time to you what are you what did she say are you going to pound this anytime soon yeah anytime you're going to pound this anytime soon or what what the fuck which sounds like impatient too um so she says no no no i'm not pursuing an affair it's actually he sexually assaulted me she says oh that's what she says she said on february 4th this is a week to 10 days before all these text messages by the way she was hanging out with john and his roommate they encouraged her to drink too much and she ended up throwing up so that's not even her drinking isn't her fault she they encouraged her to drink too much um john took her upstairs to his bedroom she said the last thing she remembers before blacking out was someone removing her tights and the next morning she said she felt strange and so this john dude took her home to the jason's place and then um apparently raped her again in jason's bed now too oh my god my god that's what she says so jason is very direct he went right to alex he went right to ezra he goes right he goes right to john and says did you fuck my girlfriend or what yeah what's going on john said no what are you kidding me i don't fucking girlfriend so then he says let me send you something sends him the text and he goes i mean i fucked your girlfriend a few times yeah sure you know because he had to read him and go oh yeah i don't know how to spin are you going to pound this anytime soon i don't know how to spin that i mean that's a little in and out ah yeah we don't have those here this isn't good closest we got is culvers sorry about this you're gonna give me a little culvers that means cover me in butter and jerk off on me that's what that means yeah that means stuff your cheese balls in my mouth totally different totally different oh man and then drip jizz on me like hot butter yeah drip your curd all over me so he's like we've been together consensually multiple times oh god damn it what are you talking about dude so now jason is like i don't know now he doesn't know who to believe what i don't know he's like i don't know who to believe he goes i got my girlfriend who's saying this guy assaulted me twice and then i got this guy going i didn't assault shit she came on to me so and this was like a we've done it multiple times and it's yeah she's pretty seems pretty excited about it see in and out she literally asked me to pound it so when are you gonna when's the you're gonna pound it anytime soon what's up jason is james i i i think there's something wrong i i it sounds like it he's 33 how does he not get it i he's honestly he's just being rather than sit and stew in your fan and your fantasies and in your like accusations and i bet you he's not gonna get it he's gonna get it she did this i bet he did he just goes right to the people and goes what happened did you do this to me dude yeah which most people don't do like that's kind of refreshing honestly my point is they're they're it's right in his face yeah and he can't see it what's going on i think he wants i think he would like either his best friend or his girlfriend one of them to be honest with him i think he would like that's the other thing i agree yeah even when he went to alex he doesn't want to destroy the relationship with these guys as friends he still wants to be friends with them really strange because he's like listen i love you why'd you do this not i'll kill you you little fucking jerk off you want to learn about cannibalism i'll fucking show you but he's a 33 year old very naive man because he's not getting he sees it it's in black and white he goes and asks the guy and the guy says yes i'm very sorry or wherever he said it i'm sure he said sorry right but then he's got a girlfriend saying it was right yeah but it's so obvious this girl says i got raped and you go fuck you you're a skank maybe he's trying to be a decent guy because also this isn't this isn't 1985 this is 2018 right so you know what i mean i mean you hear me too and me too and she's he's like i don't want to be me too you know i don't want to be the guy that doesn't believe yeah so this is like i said if this was the 80s it'd be a different thing you'd just be like oh she's a skank and fuck him and i'll kill them both but by 2018 things are jason doesn't want to believe it that's the reality of the situation that's yes that's what i mean there's something wrong he doesn't want to and he refuses which means he's a normal human he's just a normal human we're just a very sweet naive man but he doesn't just hide his head in the sand he goes to the people and asks what's up and expects them to be honest with him he's a very simple guy it seems like um yeah but jason said he talked he asked other people for advice what should i do oh come to me jason who do i believe well i think this is a great answer his friend said well if ezra was raped she should be going to the police shouldn't she right you should encourage her to go to the police if she was right because that's that's what are we talking about that's the answer yeah it's the answer exactly that's why that person's a better friend than me and you would be yeah so as for now she's fucked because she's like uh-oh i don't really want to go believe me yeah what do i do here i still want to get some in and out i still want to get some pound town so what's up with that um so jason wouldn't drop it and he said you have to do it oh no what do i do so she agreed to go meet with the police she had nothing better to do oh boy so she goes to the police it's on march 1st 2018 there's a detective ryan proc who investigates these allegations and she said quote he kept telling me to be quiet like he kept shushing me and the detective said about this interview quote she's sitting leaning against the wall with her knees up telling me the story of what took place and she says i started getting really really really tipsy and uh so um she says that she was uh sexually assaulted at that point but she blacked out and she said it was really scary so he said okay um and later on they asked the detective you believe she was a victim right and he said well yeah she came in and told me about this horrible story of what happened um but then he part of this was looking at her phone to see any communication between the two of them and she had to give it to him so she saw the cop saw all the text messages and was like i'll pound this anytime soon that sounds pretty suggestive more in and out like what are we talking about they also interviewed alex woodworth because he was in the text streams a lot too and they asked him about it and as and he said i don't think that's what happened what she said happened i don't think she got raped because she didn't tell me she got raped that's weird um and not only did she not say she got raped this detective said quote he said meaning alex said that ezra told him it was consensual she just regretted it oh yeah so the cop was like you're telling people that you did it in consensually and you regret it and you're also saying when are you going to pound this i don't think anything happened to you you regret it but you're trying to get it done again it's crazy so i mean later um he said that he couldn't get any text records from ezra because she deleted them all but john hansen had all their text messages and that's how they got them um these texts showed that ezra was really into this affair i'm talking they wow they talked about how they tried bdsm stuff they're sending explicit wild crazy photos back and forth to each other this is a full-blown thing here like it's crazy um he uh they interviewed her friends and they said that um you know she um i guess he told his friends uh that she had spoken to about this and that they you know won't back up her story and all this type of thing he interviewed the friends they were all said that she seemed real happy when she talked about this john hansen yeah and she was excited about the relationship and she was into him and all this shit and uh it's real weird and then alex of course said that she she told me it was consensual yeah um and when you talk about that's not first date things do you know i mean no that you get to pound town and some in and out there has been it takes a few times before you go you know what else i like that's animal style you know what i'm saying like you have there's been you know the secret menu yeah there's been plenty of you know there's chicken on this menu yeah it's not just cheeseburgers around here you don't get all that your first time at in and out right right you know you try the burgers first although most times you don't even see the religious shit on the bottom of the oh i do i saw it real fast haven't been back since fuck you in and out hate that fucking place and their burgers are high highly overrated and their fries are terrible sorry their burgers are fine but they're not oh my god i gotta have that burger they're just a normal fine burger it's not half a mile line worthy that's for sure it's not wait more than two people worthy no the uh i guess they said this is a prosecutor later on said this relationship wasn't even a love triangle it was a love square and those relationships began and stopped with ezra yeah there's now it's three dudes and her yeah it just has sides extra sides because there's only one woman in this shape yeah yeah this is a lopsided square is what this is yeah so which doesn't exist at that point um square is squared that's the point so this sexual assault case is ultimately dropped mainly because of what everybody said and all the all the text messages and all that kind of shit um so jason her boyfriend said her world was going to be a crumbling around her she had created ezra she had created this intricate network of lies and they kept falling apart and there was nothing left there was nothing left behind so ezra then moves out of uh uh claire and back home with her family but jason says she's trying to get with her the whole trying to get back with him the whole time okay he said quote she wove these tales about these manipulative vindictive men who quote tried to take me away from you jason it's not me it's them she would say oh those guys they're all just plotting to get her away she's such a hot commodity and John they're just she can't help it I mean she's overwhelmed so Jason by the way started you know looking around being like Jesus this is this is why I'm in to nominate yeah yeah um and Ezra didn't accuse Alex of assault when they were together anyway so that's good um but he actually found out about the Alex stuff after he found out about the John stuff but didn't believe that you know Alex would do anything um so Jason said I spent eight months constantly being toyed with it was like I can't trust you anymore you think uh they're little white lies but they can build up and build up and build up and before you know it if there's horrifying things happening um and she was pissed off that he wouldn't take her back too later on the prosecutor said this is someone who's deeply troubled someone whose life is out of control and she's not going to take her back she's going to take her back and she's going to and she's desperately trying to get back some control and that is Jason is her base it's her emotional base yeah she lives there she goes there when she needs time away from her family he's her like sponge for all of her shit yeah so she needs him as a base to work off of right you know what I mean remember in the beginning of a Bob Ross painting he'd paint he'd do up like a primer thing where you paint the whole thing get the whole base laid down that's what that's what he is to her and then but then she'll draw happy little trees that are fucking happy little rocks and you know beautiful sun somehow out of nothing fucking the top of a mountain taking it to pound town yeah so um Ezra because of this then confronts Alex and says that she doesn't want to see him again okay so I'm done with you um I can't be with you I still want to be in with Jason and all that but I'm done with you I'm done with you I'm done with you I'm done with you and all that but she would still come into the coffee shop where he worked all the time what a metaphorical cannibal yeah and in the meantime she's all over Jason won't leave him alone with calls and texts and he'll go out she'll show up like a vampire exactly if she's a vampire she um would like give him journal entries that she wrote and about her regrets for hurting him just pages stacks of pages saying read that and it's all oh god shit with tears tears running her ink and shit it's crazy um she said she was working on herself and um she wanted to reclaim her real self and uh she said in one of her journals she said that that Alex is just in her past she said I never gave their number a name in my contacts I looked at them and did not see beauty I saw a red nose too big for a face their eyes looked dead a brow jutted out from a large round forehead their smile made me cringe pores and veins stood out on their pale thin skin it all felt like bugs crawling under my skin so then you fucked them I yeah but I it's just because I need pound town once in a while but that's fine I don't love them I love you Jason that's it so Jason began taking her calls yeah started seeing her again because he's fucking weak obviously and he probably and also he might need a ride let's be realistic she does have a car he might have just needed a ride one day somewhere a little far when it was cold out this is February I mean it's not good bike riding weather yeah but there is this thing too about and who knows if he's even there but uh as you age you get to a certain age and you go I'm out of 20 year old pussy I'm never doing that again that's not for me god and and nope I'm not doing it but absolutely not at at 33 you're probably looking at at the clock going it's probably soon ticket at 33 I was I mean I was married but if if I wasn't I wasn't looking for 19 year olds at all and 20 year old no not happening no I look at now in our we're in our 40s like I look at a 20 year old girl as like a like one of my daughter's friends or something like someone to be protected from like someone who's trying to protect me from like someone who's trying to fuck them you know what I mean I get very dad like I'm not yeah but I can't see them as sexual beings because I'm very like oh don't don't leave her alone like yeah but thanks to the advent of the internet there are a lot of girls out there that are that age that are they get in a fight with their friend and they go try to fuck their dad it's no it's crazy now that's it's it's wild out there well at least that's what uh Pornhub tells us yeah well I don't know we don't know if the backstory is true but that's what they're telling us on the internet I don't know that's what girls say on Twitter I don't know if they really do it but I've read it so March of 2018 Alex is still working at the coffee shop and um you know they her and him and Ezra are broken up now and she's all about Jason March 21st 2018 well it's the day before our farmer encountered a bloody young lady here Jason and Ezra exchanged 600 texts in a day oh fuck 600 texts in one day philosophy my god that's too many um imagine you had to have it on silent or else you'd throw your phone out the window if it kept beeping um just call for Christ sake yeah that's but most of them apparently according to Jason were Ezra basically trying to talk him into getting back together yeah um but he had a hard time because he's like you fuck my friends you don't even fuck my friends you don't even fuck my friends you don't even fuck strangers you fuck my friends my best friend this what are you doing dude but she said no you know both those guys were terrible and John raped me and Alex was manipulated me and made me do weird sexual things I didn't want to do and all this type of shit this makes it much better saying things I mean it's not this isn't helping um finally she said that she was going to go to Eau Claire the next day and confront Alex she said that she was going to get closure and all this type of shit and he said why are you gonna you don't need to go see him you just talk you just said he's a manipulative guy who's been abusing you and now you're gonna go see him right he said fucking email him or write him a letter or do something like that just anything but don't do that shit um but she said nope that's what I'm doing that's it yeah she said that's it um so Jason at that point said okay fine at the end of it he said that he's done with it he's done with it he's done with it he's done with it he's done with it he's done with it I don't want to hear from her unless I don't call he said basically don't call me I'll call you yeah I don't want to hear from you unless I contact you I'm not listening to your shit anymore good answer good answer because she's gonna go talk to Alex and that obviously means you don't care about my feelings so fuck off you know whatever and who's to say that goes really well when you guys fuck like who the fuck knows how that's gonna go so March 22nd 2018 Jason sees Ezra at the and uh all that kind of thing and also he was aware she had expired tags on her car and that basically everyone like her parents told her until you get don't don't drive around so you get your tags figured out you know what I mean um so anyway uh she showed up this day and everybody said she was disheveled she didn't have makeup on she looked like she just woke up which is very rare for her and not normal um you can see her in the security footage that day from coffee shop she appears agitated uh she leaves the coffee shop races to go to Alex's house that this is when this all happened she said I'm gonna go talk to him and he said for what what the fuck are you doing that for so Jason says quote I was like this is not right something is wrong why is she at his house alone what's going on I thought a million thoughts were all just spiraling through my head at least she's showing up not hot that's nice that's yeah she's not like in her best look trying to look very good point there so he said fuck this I'm going over to Alex's house so he goes out gets on his bike literally and goes over to Alex's house where he sees Ezra's car parked outside yeah so he's like okay driver's side door was open and the engine's running which tells you she's gonna be out in about five seconds tops right um so he paces outside the building for a long time she doesn't come out even though that's going on her doors open her car's running for so long that neighbors call the police oh but before the police show up Jason went and knocked on the door or went into the apartment and found Ezra and Alex uh were in Alex's bedroom and deep in conversation he said that they were oddly calm and both looked like they were wearing masks like they were like what's going on like not like hey you know very either you're too much hey what's up buddy or you're like hey what's going on no this is cool both of those are weird you know what I mean so he said that he told them that he was why don't you guys talk in a public venue how about that because you know she should be afraid of you since you're so manipulative and uh all this type of thing so they agreed and they all left the apartment they all walked outside right into the outstretch arms of the police who are out there to talk to jason jason said i've just been pacing outside and told them what was going on and he said nothing you know nothing crazy basically um i just didn't want these two to be alone together so yeah that was that so by one o'clock jason fucking rides pedals off on his bicycle and and alex and uh ezra get into uh ezra's car and drive off to go have a chat okay what a scene what a fucking scene um now she also said by the way she had other things to do that day before one o'clock she didn't just go just for this she also ran some errands and went to uh and wanted to return some shit to alex so you know it's just like an errand she's running now that's one o'clock by 4 15 she's bloody and muddy yeah and standing at a farmer's you door 20 miles away from here boy carved into her arm with boy carved into her fucking arm okay which is obviously crazy here um and remember what was she asking for when the cops came i jason i need jason is this whole thing she's trying to get jason back by the way still okay so um on this she said i'm so scared they said that the later on here the district attorney said that you could see on the video she's borderline hyperventilated she's someone who sounds very upset they take her in the word boy is in her arm she does the interview um she said that uh you know she couldn't remember what happened she does all of that she said that she couldn't remember where alex or her car was she said i don't know where they are she said i remember i left alex's place i remember at some point alex had switched places with me and taken over driving and she was sure that something bad had happened which is a very vague yeah um she kept saying she i i don't i don't remember anything but i feel this and i feel that and jason comes to the hospital to see her that night he absolutely does um jason thought alex had like attacked her and that's why she was in the hospital yeah he brings her a green sweater mark that brings her a green sweater to keep her warm in the hospital yeah because it's cold in there um he's he's back in basically is what this looks like he came to protect her now so she like i said is talking to the uh police who think that her wounds are self-inflicted she's uh submitted to the psychiatric unit now that's where we left off so the next day march 23rd in the hospital in the psychiatric unit detectives come in uh and talk to her uh during this interview she said to the to owen park and eau claire with alex woodworth but didn't remember anything else including where to locate her car or where detectives could find woodworth um she said that she remembers feeling afraid of alex but says that's all she can recall she said quote i'm trying so hard i'm trying to get things to come to me but it's like it just keeps getting blocked out and blocked out so the detectives they go to alex's house they call his phone nothing they can't get a hold of him because they'd like to know where the hell he is too and maybe if he stole this if did he beat this woman and steal her car i mean the police also touch base with alex's family and all of that uh they said they asked if now by the way this meeting occurred with the detectives because ezra asked um if they asked if she wanted to meet and and they said yes so she had asked for this meeting okay so during the interview at one point the detective tells ezra you're not in trouble and she responded i wouldn't think i would be in trouble so um it's interesting they said that there was later on a court would say there was obviously some concern for ezra's well-being here it was a calm conversational tone the detective treated her as if she were a victim and he was trying to find out what happened this wasn't a big accusatory thing yeah this was we want to help you and you don't remember anything so um now alex's family his grandfather said we got calls that alex was missing and they another family member said i thought it was maybe like an accident or something and they said we thought maybe we could help find him why was he missing so the family was like wait what was missing what are you talking about yeah so march 23rd after they talked to her in the hospital they go out to the farm where she popped up to see if they can figure anything out here and the detective says as we're driving down the road we can see the muddy road right here and we stop at that point we're able to see footprints in the mud coming from the top of the hill down the road and then we lose them right in this area perfect footprints in the mud um which i think that's a what um kenny rogers and dolly parton had a duet over right wasn't that footprints in the mud was it no it was islands in the sun but never mind that was islands in the stream stream when i say sun okay never mind that came out completely wrong okay what is that song i don't know that's not a song and i was like wait a sec that is wrong um so uh well how many times you seen rhinestone i'll ask you that yeah not enough of them it's nothing to do with rhinestone yeah a lot no it's not no the footprints in the mud isn't in that are you sure it should be you need to watch it again that should be the one that's uh not the one that her and sly sing at the end by the way what other movie will you get like three dolly parton sylvester stallone duos to end your movie think about that that's how you're closing it who thought that was a great idea is that sly's idea fuck yeah what do you think who else's dumb shit idea would that be um my god so uh so they see the footprints and they said did you immediately think this is alex and he said yeah we thought it was alex maybe they're his footprints so they or footprints might lead so they followed the footprints in the mud from the home where she had sought help the farmhouse they follow it all the way out it ends up being about two tenths of a mile west of route eight i believe and they end up finding her car okay um so they said that they found as they were looking they i guess they had binoculars and shit too and they were looking and they could see the car and they were looking at the car and they were like oh my god i'm gonna go to and they could see something hanging out of the rear door of the vehicle oh they go and they find it's alex in the back of the vehicle her vehicle is like next to like this trailer thing not a trailer that you live in a trailer to tow something behind okay there's a big trailer thing yeah like a flatbed and but like that you drive up on i think and then her car trailer something like that i think it's hard to tell there's tarps and shit but then her car is sitting right next to that in this muddy road and she's like oh my god i'm gonna go to the car and she's like oh my god i'm in this field and out of the back driver's side door is alex now i've seen the crime doors open now i've seen the crime scene pictures and it's just i don't want to it's disturbing but he's like the the only part of his body that's out of the car is from here up shoulder he he's in the back seat like with his head hanging out on the floor boards of the back seat not on the back laying down on the floor he's on his side yeah and his legs are still on the floorboard his one leg almost looks like it's going into the passenger side seat it looks like if somebody was being murdered as they tried to get from the passenger seat out the back driver's seat oh that's what it looked like like if someone was attacking you you'd jump into the back seat like tupac tried to do right and you'd end up on the floor there and if they kept attacking you you wouldn't get out of the car or just his shoulders the door is he facing forward or facing backward he's facing the the front of the car yeah yeah so like if you walked up from the back you'd see the back of his head yep um he's been stabbed 16 times wow and the other thing it's all over the place neck chest head and groin a bunch of stuff directed at his groin oh which is on purpose okay so they collect forensic shit from the scene um they get both ezra and alex's blood in various locations around the car and both of their dna are found on a knife that they find a minute from now and they also find a wad of ezra's hair on the floor in the back seat of the car oh boy okay so um then they find in a ditch they find a four inch serrated folding knife with blood on it oh and that knife by the way they figure out was used to kill alex that knife came from ezra's father's house they find that's not good so she brought that they also find alex's phone in a ditch on the side of the road okay um now by the way the knife her father said that he had previously previously given his daughter knives back in the day so these are knives that he gave her okay now they go back the next day the 24th now knowing all of this they question her again again she denies remembering anything Anything beyond going for a drive, again. This is what the detective says for her, just to her, just so you know this isn't a lot of pressure on her. Thank you for meeting with us again, or with me. Ezra, this is another detective, introduces. He's from Dunn County. So, again, thank you. They shut the door for privacy, just like every time we talk. If you want to be done talking, just let us know. I know you're here in the inpatient behavioral health. You're in a locked facility for safety to get you the help that we both think you need. But that door isn't locked. When you want to end it, we'll end it. We'll walk you out. We'll get the staff and then get you back to wherever you need to go, okay? So that's him telling her you're not under arrest without saying it. That's interesting. Well, he's saying you're allowed to leave whenever you want. The facility's locked, but this door isn't. So you don't want to do that. Okay, so the detectives eventually inform her that we found Alex. Oh. And then she said, I guess I'll tell you what happened, but it's really painful. Yeah. Okay. She kept saying, I don't remember, I don't remember. But as soon as they told her we found him, now all of a sudden she remembers shit. Did she think that a 2013 Impala just disappears? And you'll never find it? Especially one with your very specific drawings on it. And a body in the backseat? With the door open hanging out on somebody's farm? Those don't disappear. No. So she said they were talking about Alex's views on life as they drove. She described these views as being pretty dark shit here. She said that Alex needed to realize that, listen, what we did hurt other people. Oh. Wasn't right, what we did. I need you to understand that. Yeah. She said she didn't know whether Alex at some point took over driving. She said her anxiety was so bad she couldn't drive anymore. She said that part of her anxiety came from Alex misgendering her. She said when they were together, he often called her his boy. Which is odd because ever since they've known each other, she's not. She's been she at that point. Or they at the most. Definitely not he. So he said that, yeah, from there Alex drove them out to a deserted country road. So. There, you know, they're like. Yeah, dude, we found the crime scene. And then she says he started like carving something into my arm. Okay. She said he got a knife from the center console. And that's what happened. And the detective said, can I see it by chance? And they show the word boy scratched in her left forearm. She says in high school she had questioned her gender and Alex had picked up on that. She said, quote, he used to call me like boy and lots of stuff like that. Come here, boy. Did they say it like an old southerner or did he say it like you're my boy? Which one? Either way, it's the least hot thing you can call the person you want to fuck. Yeah. And I was just kind of like, I don't really identify that way anymore. So the detective's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't believe the shit about your arm. Ezra said Alex is in the driver's seat. And they the detective said it didn't make sense that Alex is right handed. And he said, I don't believe the shit about your arm. He's sitting basically where you are talking about an interviewer. And he reaches over and carves boy perfectly so she would see it. You'd have to do it backwards. He's here. He's in the driver's seat. She's here. She's saying he grabbed my arm, took his right hand and did boy upside down. Yeah. Boy is visible to her like this, not the other way. So they're saying then he wrote it upside down. Yeah. They're like, that doesn't seem likely. Probably. Right. They said that's. And perfectly. And said, you'd have to do it backwards. It's not plausible. So then. While he's driving. Yeah. Well, while they had parked in a deserted place, the detective said he didn't do that to you, did he? Just came out and. Yeah. Just didn't happen that way. And she said, she said, no. OK. So they said, you carved boy into your own arm. Isn't that right? And she said, mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So, yeah, she said that, well, we ended up in the back seat and Alex started attacking me. She said he started cutting my pants open and stuff and I didn't know what to do. It was really scary. Like just like a street rapist, like a crazy woman. I'm going to cut her pants off. Kind of crazy shit. She said that he just kept attacking me and attacking me and I didn't know what to do. And the detective says, OK, because he's not believing it at this point. She says, and I was so scared. It was the scariest. It was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in my life. And she said she grabbed the knife by its jagged blade and wrestled it away from Alex and started stabbing him. Oh, for her own protection. Yeah. In the groin a whole bunch of times. Right in the dick. Right in the ball sack. So the detective said, you said you had the knife. Where were you cutting him? She said, I was just going anywhere and everywhere I could. Right in the chest. Right in the face. Right. In the balls. Right in the dick. Everywhere I could. Right in the taint. Right in the taint there. So the detective says, OK, looks down at her hands, which only have superficial wounds, superficial cuts. He said the wounds don't match. If you're grabbing a knife like she said you did, you pull your hand across it, your hand's going to be flayed open. And that's a fact. We've seen this in a lot of murder cases. But she said, quote, he just kept grabbing me and grabbing me and grabbing me. Too many grabbings for me to believe that, too. It's a harrowing story. You know, the guy's like, oh, it's terrible. But obviously, the more and more they looked at this, they were like this. She's not telling the fucking truth at all. No. Yeah. So she said, I tried to keep him focused on our problems. But then Alex began again talking about the boy thing and carved boy into my arm. And then she said, no, I guess I did it. And she then claimed he attempted to sexually assault her at knife point. She said she was lying in the back frozen as he cut away her clothing. But the next thing she knew, she's fighting with her life. She's stabbing anywhere and everywhere. And she started stabbing him, stabbing him. She fled the back seat. But Alex followed her out. And she was forced to keep stabbing him because he kept trying to grab her. So, yeah, she said her anxiety grew so strong after all the grabbing. By the way, her story gets real messy on when she was inside and when he was outside. She doesn't know. It just gets real messy. But she said her anxiety was so much that that's how she just ran away. And ended up at a farmhouse. That's what happened. OK. Yeah. She said he kept trying to grab me in the back of the car. So I started to defend myself the best I could. The problem is the blood evidence shows that Alex was mostly stabbed outside of the car, which means none of this is true. Yeah. They said that that's where there's most of the blood loss. And by the time he gets back into the vehicle, he's nearly dead because there's less blood loss. So all the stabbing took place outside the car. Did he jump in the car to try to maybe take the car to go get help? Get away or maybe to get inside and close the door so she couldn't get at him anymore? Who knows? When you're being stabbed, I don't know what you're – you just want to get away, but it happened outside the car. A very integral vein is clearly hit, and he probably bled out before he could get away. Yep. They said there's virtually no defensive wounds. That's because they believe that Ezra took him by surprise, just all of a sudden started hacking this poor kid. Yeah. The prosecutor said she comes behind him and completely takes him out, stabbing him first in the back of the head. Later on, they say, do you think Ezra just snapped? And the prosecutor said, yes, I think she intended to do what it took to get back with Jason. And that meant Alexander Woodworth had to be out of the picture. Now, Ezra chooses to end this police interview like they said she could. So she ends it. Toward the end of the interview, they said, can we photograph your injuries? She consented. Photos were taken. Then they asked, can we ask you a few more questions? And she said, no, I'm done. So that was that. So Jason, at this point, this is when he finally realized, holy shit, she's a huge fucking liar. Everything she says is a lie. He believed that she had stabbed him in self-defense because that's what Ezra told him. So that's what he believed. But then he saw the autopsy photos with 16 stab wounds, some of them at his goddamn groin, and said, holy shit, she's not a victim. Everything she does is her own shit. Her own little tornado. So April 9, 2018, she's charged with first-degree intentional homicide by use of a dangerous weapon. Oh, God. Not good. She's so young. So young. The prosecutor said, I've been a prosecutor since 2001, and I've never seen anything this violent. Just brutalized her. So during, she said that the knife that was found in the ditch, outside the house, this is the knife, because they're showing this is the knife that she did to get rid of Alex and all this type of shit. The prosecutor said she's trying to figure out what to do while he's laying wounded. She's taking her clothes off, and she's trying to cut them. She's trying to cut herself. She was clearly someone who was trying to stage an attack, because she has clothes with big knife shit in it. Like, not where she's, she's not cut there. Just her clothes are? Her clothes, her pants are ripped, like knife marks down the leg, like a big thing in the open, If you were like, if I wanted it to look like someone was going to rip someone's clothes apart with a knife and then rape them, how would I make it look? And that's what it looks like. Really carefully so that she didn't get hurt. Exactly. Yeah. Very carefully. So they asked the prosecutor, how does he end up back in the car? Because that's the interesting question. And she said, I think he climbs in there to get away from the woman who's trying to kill him. Right. He just has nowhere else to go. We were out in the middle of nowhere. There's no other structure. They said Alex was found out hanging out of the back seat because at that point she said that she thinks that Ezra tried to drag him out of the car so she could drive away and just leave him there. But she couldn't get him out of the car because she weighs 115 pounds. She's 5'2". And he's like a normal-sized guy and he's dead weight. And also, if you're on the floor, you've got to get him up over that. And there's so much blood. He's so slippery. That's the other thing. So. So they said that she had to do a different plan. Alex was found with a scarf around his neck. And they suspect that the prosecutor suspects he was trying to stop the bleeding with it. Like he was trying to make a tourniquet. Now, Alex's grandfather said, that's my question going back in my mind now is what he thought when he was being killed. I look at Ezra and do I get angry? You know, because he suffered. He suffered greatly. By the way, his family are. Wonderfully nice people who are salt of the earth. Wonderful people. They really, really are. The prosecutor said not one of the wounds was lethal in and of itself. A thousand tiny guts. Yeah. They said if he received medical intervention pretty quickly, he probably would have lived. Oh, my God. This is horrible. But they said that wasn't. She wasn't going to let that happen. Yeah. And when she took off, she took his phone. And so he couldn't call for help. Asshole. So that's it. She smashed it, too. She didn't just throw it. She smashed it. The screen's all smashed. She made sure it was fucked up. The prosecutor said her Instagram page says, I am the Fox, a tricky one. I think she thinks she's a manipulator. The tricky Fox. That's her. So pre-trial, she wants to suppress her statements made on March 23rd and March 24th. Obviously. On Miranda. On Miranda grounds, she said. But the court denies her motion. Okay. We'll get into that. To suppress her stuff. Okay. Okay. Even though she wasn't Mirandized for one of those times. But they're saying that she wasn't. But she was warned that she could leave. Yeah. That's why they said she would. We thought she was a victim. You know, Mirandize a victim. She's not Mirandized because. Yeah. Right. I think they should just Mirandize everybody that comes into the fucking. If you go in a police interrogation room, that's just before anything. Before anything, you get more. Even if you're a victim's. Witness. Kid, a witness, anybody. Everybody gets Mirandized. That would be smart. Anyway. So they go. The trial strategy is self-defense. That's her. Her thing. Oh, wow. Her final story. This is it. This is the court story she's going to give. This is her defense. The car got stuck in the mud. They were unable to dislodge it. She began suffering from severe anxiety. And Alex suggested. She lied down in the backseat of the car, which she did. Then she says, Alex got on top of her and began describing her in the third person, calling her boy and saying how she deserves this and that she had betrayed him. He then covered her eyes and began cutting her clothes and skin with a knife. She said that she was frozen and that she was afraid he was going to kill her. A struggle ensued during which Alex, quote, grabbed her by the throat and kept ripping hair out of her. She was able to disarm him. He's in a psychotic, homicidal frenzy, and she's somehow able to disarm him. Have we ever heard of that? 105. Yeah, 115. Have we ever heard of anybody being about to be stabbed viciously and just wrestle the knife out of someone's hand? I don't think it's happened ever. What are we talking about? No, never. So she said then she began to defend herself by stabbing. She said that after the struggle, she felt dizzy and faint and like she couldn't catch her breath and that things were starting to go black. At the sides, at the sides, like a fucking. Oh, she lost her periphery. Like a full screen. They took a wide screen, made it full. Now we got nothing on the sides. She formatted for her TV now. Now it's pan and scan. No good. It's all bad. She decided that she needed to get out of there because she was panicking. And at that point, that's when she scratched the word boy into her arm, quote, as a reaction. Oh, an odd reaction. That she may have done it to wake herself up in a sense and to help her feel something. But she said she really didn't know the answer to why she cut herself. Then she took the knife and Alex's phone and walked away from the scene. She remembers stumbling down a road and she fell a few times, which caused her to drop the knife in the phone. She didn't ditch them in a in a ditch. Yeah, that's crazy. That would be a fall down a lot. And, you know, fucking things fly away. It's dark out. Even though it's four o'clock. You know, you ever killed somebody. You get spaghetti legs. It's you can't do it. Middle of the afternoon. Yeah. So she wants the March 24th police interview tossed out. Yeah. And she says she was in custody. She said it was the third day in a row she was questioned by police that Alex's body had been found and she had become a suspect at that time and that the day before the detective made a show of authority by presenting her with a release of medical information form without asking for her permission or telling her. She could choose not to sign it. He just said here sign this. She said she was asleep and had to be woken for the interview and that she was escorted to the conference room by a social worker when the detectives were standing outside the unit and would have been visible to her. The interview quote took place in the same conference room as the day before. But this time there were two on there were two armed officers instead of one. Both had visible weapons and handcuffs and the door to the conference room was closed. The back was to the door and one detective detective sat across from her one next to her and the interrogation lasted approximately 90 minutes which by the way is a very short interrogation. It's very quick. Yeah. Very quick. Fucking eight hours. Fuck yeah. They said the circumstances showed that law enforcement were not going to leave her alone and the detectives ramped up the pressure to talk and use psychological pressure she said. And she said the detectives were required to provide Miranda warnings and that their failure to do so violated her. Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Now I agree once she's a suspect they should have Miranda eyes there and tell her such. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well you don't tell her she's a suspect but you're telling her by Miranda. That tells you tell her. Yeah. That should let her know it's up there. But they were saying that they still didn't know if she was the victim. That was what the cops said. They still didn't know what was going on. And then once she started kind of spilling shit it was kind of too late at that point. Now the trial. The court is going to allow her to admit some of Alex's journal entries into court record. Oh. To show that he's a dark person and cannibalism and all that. Yeah. That kind of shit. The vampirism. Oh God forget it. But the court limits the use of the journal entries by the defense. You can't just have everything. You can have very specific things to what you want to talk about. So she had moved to present certain entries as evidence of his. Character reputation behavior statements and specific acts. And she said that that will boost her self-defense claim. And she suggested that Alex was violent and that he condone non-consensual sex also known as rape. Not known by any other word really. It's like when you'll hear people say like a minor woman and you're like you mean a young girl. Yeah. You mean a child girl. Yeah. Yeah. So. She sought though to introduce these as a as Mick Morris evidence which is Mick Morris versus state. That's the case that that comes from. So the circuit court agrees with some of it and allows her to introduce the following evidence. Alex is writing that Ezra was actually aware of when she stabbed him and which and which she testified contributed to her perception of the danger that he posed. So basically what you would have read that would have made you feel threatened while this incident was going on. So if he talked about he likes to stab people that would be relevant or if he talked about I want to cut someone with a knife and then eat them that would be relevant. That kind of shit. Other than that though they said his character trait for violence through opinion or reputation evidence but the court refused to permit her to use the journal entries as evidence of his character for violence to support an inference about. The victim's actual conduct during the incident. Now I don't want I don't want diaries used especially if it's a fantasy like that. I don't want that used in trials. Not unless it helps like catch the murder. Yeah. Like it's the victims but it helps. I don't want to use it against the victim. No. Unless they're saying ha ha I'm going to make it look like this guy killed me and they didn't. That's a better journal to be using. Yeah. Yeah. Now she is by design. Design and by her own everything the star of this trial. Oh. She makes a spectacle of herself. She does herself up, which a lot of people, they want to look nice in court. She does herself up, hair, makeup, which is fine, like we said. All the outfits are all pink, though, very pink. And the defense's strategy was to make her seem like a young, young girl. Like a child. Like a child, small, young, meek, pink, look like your daughter. Look like whoever's daughter out there. Pink, everything fucking pink. Too much pink. Different shades of pink, depending on the day, depending on. She'll have outfits with three different shades of pink on it. It's wild, dude. Yeah. So she came in with different hairstyles all the time, different clothes. Like, it was a fashion show for her. Yeah. It was crazy. This is 1819, huh? This is 2019 this is going on. Yeah, this is post, like, once, I mean, there's been a bunch of them, obviously, that tried to do their best to, like. Doctor themselves for that, for an image. But Casey Anthony really fucking went to town with the, with, and so did Jodi Arias. Obviously, Jodi Arias. Yeah, that's a difference. A bit, she's a bit crazy. This is. I'll go on a limb. This is just Jodi Arias in a car. Yeah. It's the exact same case. But she's going to try, she's going to try to, uh, Casey Anthony this and try to look like the librarian when she doesn't realize that this is way worse. She's trying to look like. She's trying to look like, um, the part of the porn before the bun comes down and the panties come off. That's, that's what she's trying to look like rather than after. Yeah. So yeah, she tried to look like timid and that kind of thing to look, get small. They told her really, I mean, you could tell they told her, get small, you're small, you're real tiny, you're tiny. So the prosecution said shortly after they began dating, unfortunately for Alex, the defendant was involved in a complex series of other relationships at that time. Which we know about, um, the defense says that there was a struggle. Ezra's, uh, attorneys point out a muddy boot print on the ceiling of the car. There's a muddy boot print on the ceiling of the car. And that's evidence that a struggle had taken place in the back seat. Okay. That's their whole case. Um, Jason testifies the boyfriend, he's kind of the star of this thing. Cause he's funny. Um, he says, uh, that. And he walked in and everybody, everybody talked about this. Everybody noticed this. This is not just an ex-boyfriend, whatever he said on the day I was testifying, I was kind of shocked when I walked in the room, she's given me these looks adjusting herself, like being overly, you know, attuned to me. You could see it, dude. She's adjusting her hair. She's fixing herself up. Like, yeah, that's my man right there. It's weird. Then this is fucking crazy. Jason's asked by the prosecutor to identify Ezra in court. Which they do that by. Can you tell me where she's sitting and what she's wearing? Yeah. He identified her as wearing a pink jacket. Okay. Yeah. And she was, but then during the break, she was wearing the pink jacket over something. She want to guess what that is? His shirt. Nope. She took it off during the break. And when he came back up to testify, she's wearing the green sweater that he gave her at the hospital. Oh, you bitch. She was. She wore it underneath because she knew he was testifying that day. To fuck with his head. This is the shirt you gave me. That's what she's wearing. The shirt. Wow. Now, most people didn't realize anything. It just looked like she had a green sweater on. She took her jacket off, but he knew that's the sweater I gave her at the hospital. He said it was emotional to see that the games never stopped. It was deliberate. Ezra definitely wore that to get a response out of me. He said it was just shocking. I don't understand what her tactic was, but I definitely felt. I felt like more of emotional manipulation I had been put through. I definitely felt like she thought that showing that to me is like, this is how much I love you still. I have a piece of you. Yeah, that's what it is. Like, I'm wearing this. There was a case we saw. There was something that Corey Richens did that was a similar thing. You know, that metaphorical cannibal part. She just did it. Yep. The Corey Richens did something similar when her ex came in there, the guy that they had to read all the texts. Oh, the guy that said, yeah, what's real? What's honest? He doesn't said tell the whole truth. He said, what do you mean by the whole truth? That was his. That was what he said. And everyone went, huh? What did you say? Honest engine. I heard a lawyer talking about it afterwards. I think it was Emily Baker said I was a prosecutor for 15 years. I've never heard anyone say that before. I've seen thousands of people sworn in. None of them said, depends on what you mean by the whole truth. That's never come out. The judge. And then they said, fuck it. Take the oath in the Bible away and just said, if they ask you questions, will you tell it as truthful as you possibly can? And he said, yeah. He goes, good enough. Let's go. Move it. Let's move it along. Fuck are we doing here? Getting caught up in semantics with this asshole. Some guy who lives in a fucking rental house that his murder murderer girlfriend lets him crash in. He installs a bathtub for pussy. For Christ's sake. He's the Jason of this case. It's funny. Put in a bunch of curtain rods for blowjobs. Fucking wild. So several experts for the state and the defense testified at the trial. They discuss her injuries, specifically whether the injuries were self-inflicted by another person. She had bruises, I guess, on her neck consistent with having been strangled and that injuries on her hands and forearms were consistent with defensive wounds and that the location of the injuries of her injuries could have been fatal had the cuts been deeper. Yeah, that's her defense. People. There's also dueling psychologists here, psychiatrists, actually. One guy, Dr. James Hopper, a behavioral researcher and clinical instructor of psychology and psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. And there's a psychologist named Steve Benson, who the prosecutor calls like a hired gun and all this shit. And he sits up there with a real. Smuggled smirk on his face, though, from Winnebago Community College. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. From from fucking Eau Claire, you not even the real college. I don't even know what college is there. So spelled O.H. Claire. Yeah. Oh, Claire. So they review police reports, medical records and recordings, transcripts, all that kind of shit. Benson testified that he diagnosed Ezra with PTSD. Childhood onset and persistent depressive disorder with anxious distress. He explained that her statements during the interviews with law enforcement were consistent with those diagnosis and that intrusive thoughts and avoidant symptoms, dissociation and a regression, which explained why she gave emergency responders her birth name rather than the name she's been using. Or because also fucking legal. Yeah. He also testified that self-cutting can be. A trauma response, which it can be. It can also be a way for you to try to set up a fucking murder scene. There is. So, you know, Dr. James Hopper said after a crime, a person can be really stressed and that can make it hard for them to tell the police officer about things that are actually in their brain. People's ability to retrieve information can improve over time if we become less stressed over time. Yeah. OK. Now, the prosecutor, though, said trauma can certainly affect your memory, but it doesn't make you lost. Why? I think that was convenient. Right. Yeah. Now, a childhood friend of hers said when asked if they thought she was truthful, Ezra was in her testimony. She says, no, I think she had too many ideas of deception going on in her head. She couldn't figure out which one to use. She couldn't keep a story straight. Fuck. That's what happens when she testifies. And the first thing they ask her about on the stand, by the way, when Ezra testifies, she testifies. It's weird, dude. She's so smiley. And like, she acts like she acts like she's going to a new school and they're going to put her up at the front of the class and just find out about her. Who are you? What you do? Well, I mean, I'm from over here. I'm trying to be friendly. I'd like to make friends. It's so strange. Her demeanor up there. What'd you do last summer? Well, I went camping. Yeah. It's so fucking weird, dude. She her smiles and she's like, it's it's weird. You're on trial for murder. Look serious. It's weird. It's weird. That might be OK. But when you see it, it didn't come across good. Well, at all. It's right. Did she think she was like portraying a girl incapable of stabbing? Is that what she thought? Yeah. I'm so nice and pink. How do you not a bad person? Right. And they asked her, will you explain to the jury why you've been drawing and doodling in court? Because the media made a big deal of the fact that she's drawing, which a lot of people do. And she said, oh, and she did it real smiley. She goes, it's just like a way for me to like, you know, kind of control my anxiety. A little bit. And, you know, just kind of get more just center myself in this trial because it's trial stressful. Sure. It's creepy. So she testifies. She said, I cut my hand because I kept trying to grab him. And then I finally got free and I finally got the knife away from him. She later said that was the beginning. What she said initially. Then at trial, she said, I then decided to knee him in the groin and he drops the knife at that point because she can't explain in court that she grabbed the knife by the blade because her hand wasn't cut enough. So now she She had to switch it, and now it's a cartoon. She knees him in the groin. Not only does he immediately fall down, he throws the knife and everything. That's not what people do when they get hit in the balls. First of all, if you kick me in the balls, I got about eight seconds to stab the fuck out of you before that shit sets in. I will use that eight seconds. I'm going to use all eight of those seconds on you if I have a knife and you do that. Once the paralyzation takes effect, all that's coming out is, bitch, I'm going to fucking kill you. Well, then all you could do is this with the knife. You could be like. Just wild swings. Get back. No real, not even like a sweep, just little motions. Like you're fanning. Yeah. Fanning mosquitoes. Get away. Get away. You don't know what to do with it. Oh, the pain is crazy. It's the worst. Yeah. So she said, yeah, I decide to knee him in the groin. He drops the knife. Instantly, I grab the knife. I start stabbing him anywhere and everywhere I could. That's her testimony. So she goes with the backseat thing. She said most of the blood evidence was found outside the car, obviously. So that contradicted that. She said. When I started slow, meaning in their relationship, we held hands, we hugged, we shared a few kisses, and then we eventually became partners. She said their sex life was normal. She even said it was vanilla at first. But then I encouraged him to explore himself and things he might want. And we started we started practicing and doing these new things that he wanted. OK, that explains a four month torrid affair. Yeah. That takes so long to get to. That's what I mean. That's not it's usually not immediately explore yourself. Figure it out. Yeah, it takes. That's a while. So the lawyer said, was there ever a time back in your relationship in January or February where Alex used a knife when having sex with you? She said, yes, he had cut a pair of my pants. So she said then they started getting into bondage and shit. She said he enjoyed to blindfold me. I took the role of submissive. It turned into what could be considered a BDSM relationship. Yeah, the press. The prosecution says there is absolutely no evidence that Alex was involved in BDSM whatsoever. She just pulled this out of her asshole. Essentially, he has no blindfolds or ropes or any of that shit at his house. There's none of that exists. Nothing crazy in his room. No, there's also a big argument over the word prone. OK, she says that she absolutely does not like to be in a prone position. OK, so then they go back and forth and they say, well, that's funny. There's a text exchange from with John Hansen from February 2018, where she sends a picture to Mr. Hansen of herself in a prone position, then follows it up with. I just want to do something similar, but I'd like you to tie me up for it. They're like, that's funny. I think what? Like on your back. Defenseless. Defenseless. Yeah, that's what I'm getting. So they said they kept she kept talking about prone and prone and prone. But they said she was asked about being prone as in lying face down and having sex with Mr. Woodworth behind her. I didn't ask her if she liked it or if she didn't at that point. This is I'm talking to the judge here. And so there's a lot of going back and forth with prone. OK, is it doggy or is it missionary? That's what they're saying. They said lying down on her or being prone as opposed to face up in the missionary position, as it's called. Um, those are two very different things. And it does not open the door whatsoever, nor would I call the photograph prone, blah, blah, blah. So they go back and forth on that. So they ask. Oh, yeah, yeah. Those aren't published to the public, but they're published in court. Um, the lawyer asks, as you were driving, whenever you're sending texts or shit, realize if anything happens down the road, this is all going to be shown in court. All of it. Um, also, you don't know how it's going to touch your life. It could be somebody completely unrelated to this. And her phone gets opened. And if she's your fucking dick. Yeah. Oh, you don't know. Because you sent it to a friend who shared it with a friend. God damn it. They said, as you were driving, were you paying much attention to where you were going? And she said, no, I was just driving. They said, what were you hoping to do when you saw Alex? She said, I was hoping we could be friends still after everything between us. They said, uh, she said, but once the car got stuck in the mud, everything changed. She said, I was breathing heavy. My anxiety was heightened. Um, and she said, Alex positioned himself above me. You could say straddled me in the back seat. She said, was cutting her clothes away. I could feel the knife start to graze and cut into my skin. She said, uh, what was going through my mind is he's going to make you do what he wants. He's going to take anything he wants. I'm afraid he's going to kill me. Then I decided to knee him in the groin and he drops the knife instantly. I grab it and start stabbing him. They say, are you trying to kill him? And she says, no, I just want to get away. I need to get out of the car. I need to get out as fast as I can. They say, then they say, so why did you keep stabbing him when you were still in the car? She said, because he wouldn't let go. He wouldn't let me out. I was terrified. She says, then they ended up outside, but by then he'd suffered wounds to his head, neck and groin, but she was, but he was still able to grab a hold of her. She said, and he pulls me very close and tight to his body. And they said, what are you thinking? And she said, he's dead. He's going to kill me. I reached around and just quickly stabbed him in the side, hoping he would let go. She doesn't remember what happened next, she said, but, you know, whatever. But the prosecutor, the prosecutor, the prosecutor said that she spent the next couple hours rearranging the evidence to make it look like he, it's his fault. Carving shit, cutting her own clothes. She's in the middle of nowhere. She's got plenty of time. A man bleeding out and, and position framed this whole situation to look like she's a, how do I get out of this? Yep. She said, I kept saying out loud, what's happening? What's going on? I couldn't get the feeling outside my head. The visual of the horror of seeing Alex and seeing the blood. It felt like I was in a tunnel, like I could only see so much around me. It felt dizzy and faint, like I can't catch my breath. The prosecutor says she, you know, this is later on. She, you know, conveniently forgets kind of everything. That happens within that three hour period, which is kind of fun between then and the doorstep for three hours. She didn't wander for three hours. It's right there. And they have her footprint. She went right to there. It's not like she went the other way for half a mile and turned around. So she, Ezra goes on to say, I don't know how to process this. I just don't know. The prosecutor says that Ezra deliberately drove to this remote area with the purpose of killing him. And she said, then I just remember stumbling down the road. I wanted to call the police. I wanted to get help. I wanted to do anything I could. But I accidentally broke the phone. They said, why did you scratch boy in your arm? Yeah, that's what her attorney says. And she said, I thought about it. And when I think about this, I don't know. It was just a reaction. I thought about it and not to purposely mislead. Right. Investigators. As soon as they called me on my bullshit. Yeah. Didn't know an answer for that. Yeah. They said, was there a point? At the hospital where your memory began to return to you? And she didn't say, yeah, when they started telling me about the crime scene and how full of shit I was. She said, when I was finally able to take a shower that night and I could see my hand was cut and I could feel everything start to come back to me. Now, here's some reactions to her testimony. Her ex, Jason, said, quote, when she was on the witness stand, it didn't seem real. She just seemed at times to be enjoying it. There were times on the witness stand where she was smiling or joking. Which is not a good look. Her friend, one of her own friends from childhood, said, I thought it was really interesting when she was asked to spell her name, how happy she got, how much she lit up. When she was spelling it, she was like smiling, like, yep, this is me. I get to talk about me now, like my time to shine. Someone who knows it. I know how to spell that. The prosecutor said her demeanor during the trial was very relaxed. She seemed on breaks, excited to see her family that this was kind of a family reunion. It wasn't. It wasn't someone who's I'm on trial for first degree intentional homicide. This was someone who was wondering when she's going home. And she also thought that Ezra was emphasizing, emphasizing her femininity to appeal to jurors, especially the first day she testified. She wore a pink sweater. She said she was in pink and trying very much to be very meek and timid. Right. The defense closing said she wanted to live. She fought to survive. She's innocent. Right. OK. Jury instructions. Came on here. And I guess there was limiting basis for the jury's consideration of Alex's journal entries and Ezra's mental condition. OK. Yeah. Jury comes back guilty of first degree intentional homicide. A duh. OK. Jason says when she heard that when she hears the verdict, it's a wild. You can. She's just like, huh? Her brain breaks when she hears. She thinks she. She's shocked. She thought she was going home. She really did. You could see it. I think she almost didn't believe it herself. She looked like she was going to faint almost. There was like actual fear, like nobody believes me anymore and I'm caught. The prosecutor said, I think she thought she was going home at the end of that day. So a juror said, they asked a juror, the juror said the stab wound to the head. And then she said, that's where I stabbed him first. That's an intentional act to kill somebody. And what does she also says about Ezra testifying? The juror said, quote, she didn't help herself much. I would expect more, more emotion, more something. And the interviewer said, remorse. And she said, yeah, yeah, definitely remorse. There wasn't any of that. Yeah, one of those. Give me a, give me a remorse. Okay. She had regret about fucking John. She had zero regret about this. And she got a lot of shit. And I, and I do understand people get that. Oh, they, people do say that like a lot of women on trial, they look at them too closely and look at outfits and all that, but they do that for men. They do that for everybody. They. For everyone. People spent hours analyzing every OJ Simpson, Simpson, facial gesture and facial fucking expression. So they do that in every trial, but hers, she was particularly, her demeanor was weird in court, dude. It was not normal homicide, fucking person, whatever. So then before sentencing, she released a statement. It's a bitch about the media. She said, if you breathe, it will be used against you. If you cry too hard or too. Too much. She's a fake. If you don't cry enough, she's heartless. If you smile, she's not taking this seriously. If you keep your face calm, she is unfeeling smile, but not too much. It's okay to cry, but not too much. Don't react, but don't make sure that they, but make sure that they know who you are. Yeah. Like a job interview. It's the same person. Yeah. Be a normal person. And if you weren't guilty, you wouldn't even have to think about that shit. It would just come to you naturally. Or don't murder people. Yeah. You don't got to worry about it. Yeah. And she said about the. Family reunions, quote unquote, she said, who would not smile after finally face to face with being with their family after so long, people are on trial for first degree murder. That's so stupid. I don't know. I'd feel embarrassed that I haven't seen my family in this long and I'm embarrassing them because I'm in prison. She said she felt re traumatized by the trial and the way she was portrayed as a sex fiend and a liar. And she said, I have supporters on my Instagram page and they say they'll never stop fighting and neither will I. She said the battle for. Justice has only begun. How many followers does she have? Is it a lot? I have no idea. She was still putting out Facebook posts from prison, though. So she's got someone doing that and sentencing. She looks completely different. She's not blonde anymore. She's cut her hair super short. Really? Completely different human being wearing the jail scrubs, everything. So, yeah, her mother pleaded with the court to grant her daughter the possibility for parole after 20 years. Please. Um. Alex's aunt said throughout the trial, we never saw any sign of sadness, shame, compassion or the slightest bit of remorse for what you had done. Ezra says, I want to just say how sorry I am that they have lost their son, but my sorry doesn't cut it in my mind. I loved Alex very much. I also feel a great loss and I am so sorry. It was half about her. Right. Um, the judge made a point of saying how your apology is the most insincere fucking shit I've ever heard. Yeah. And you. You, ma'am, may fuck off life in prison, eligible to petition for extended supervision. So eligible for parole after 50 years, 50. Oh, fuck. She's going to be 70 when she's eligible for parole. I mean, I think the judge did it because she was so young. I can't give you parole in 20 years. I can't. You're going to get out and do this more. Right. Yeah. You're going to get out and spit some kids out. Now, at 40, you could sit at the end of a bar and bait somebody in and then fucking stab them in their sleep. Yeah. Then she's mad, by the way. Oh, 2020. She says, I've touched on the topic of the media before. I feel that I should acknowledge its presence. I have no obligation. I have no commitment. I feel that I must comment of things have as things have unfortunately gotten out of hand. I know that I'll never successfully combat the prejudicial, persistent and invasive coverage. I am only one. But I am one. So I would like to express my voice on what I have observed. Most of all, the lack of respect for anyone involved in this tragic event is appalling. We are stripped of our skeletons and reduced to abstract ideas. Now you're starting to sound like his fucking cannibalism philosophy. Feeling the edge of every second that passes by like a knife. What is she stupid? She's doing. I know that I am not the only individual with this burden. I feel in their behavior. They disregard. Disregard our pain, the loss. This is not just something to click, watch, subscribe and comment on. I ask, could a greater miracle take place than for us to look through each other's eyes for an instant? I'm never going to win the media, quote unquote. I'm not here to do that. What I am here to do is draw awareness to gather support as well as highlight a system that's broken. I want to thank all of you that do support me. I want to thank all that continue to believe in me. Your support keeps this fight alive. Not only do I fight for myself, but for a better future. And that had 71 likes at whatever time someone took this screenshot. What the fuck? Which is more than a lot of comedians we know when they're trying to promote their shows. And this guy is this lady's a murderer. 71. So she appeals, by the way, ineffective assistance of counsel for not getting her statements tossed out. Yada, yada, yada. Was she in custody? Was she not? We've gone over that a shitload of times. You're not in custody if you're sitting in the room. But you're. You know, certain factors, the doors open, you're not in cuffs, blah, blah, blah. So there's a lot of that going on here. So the they deny her shit, by the way. Final thoughts. Here we go. This is, I believe, Alex's brother said, quote, I've been forgiven. So I forgave her. It's just that simple. Hates like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. Oh, hey, you know what? He's right. That's pretty good. The guys. It's a great quote. I don't know who said that. He didn't, but. No, no. It's an old quote. It's old. Yeah. It's a great old quote. That's like from 2,000 years ago, that quote. That's like Confucius or some shit. Yeah. Plato or somebody. But it's a fascinating way to say it towards, I mean, towards somebody that knifed your brother to death. That's the ultimate test of it, though. Yeah. If you really believe that shit, it's fine to say it, but let's see how you practice that. Forgiveness and all that shit when it's real, when it's not just some bullshit. I mean, they passed the test with flying colors, these people. They're good people. And I think I would probably say that in a lot of circumstances, but I'm sure there are circumstances where I will absolutely loathe somebody for the rest of their fucking miserable, shitty life. There's people I've hated for 30 years. You kidding me? It's fine. And they didn't kill anybody I know. No. That's what I mean. I know someone who's killed someone I know, and I don't hate that person. I don't care. It's different. They're comedians I genuinely hate. I genuinely hate. Literally hate. I have no, I don't even feel bad about it. Fuck them. And that's not me hoping that poison kills them. I just. No, I don't care. Anything can kill them and I'll be happy. I don't give a shit. It doesn't have to be poison. Alex's family member goes on to say, I want him to be remembered as someone who loved everyone. Everyone loved Alex, you know, because he was. He was always there to help. Alex wanted everyone to smile. Jason said, I feel like I could have been there. I could have been the motive for this murder. He was the motive. That's what the prosecution's whole story was. She wanted Jason back. He is a little slow on the update. Never mind. He is so naive. I've seen his testimony where he comes across as an intelligent guy. So I think I was, I was snowed by actually seeing him. You have to read his words. She, he said that. And for her to take his life and put that blood on my hands, this is horrifying. And the prosecutor said, I feel confident in saying she was going to do whatever it took to get back together with Jason. Jason said, maybe I missed something. It like slipped through my hands. I still think about them both, though. I think about them both so often. I didn't have, it didn't have to end this way. You didn't have to hurt all these people. She's currently incarcerated in the Taika, wow, Tai Chita. Tai Chita Correctional Institution and in Menominee, Wisconsin. She's there and that's that. So there you go, everybody. That's Springbrook, Wisconsin. It's a fucking crazy story, right? Holy shit. That is the second woman from Wisconsin that chopped somebody to death. Yes. Like that Shabizness chick. That's right. Wisconsin will do it to you. But what's happening up there? Makes women want to cut you up. Makes dudes want to eat you. I don't get it. It's weird. It's weird shit. Too much dairy, you guys. Too much in the dairy. You're craving protein, everybody. Yeah. You're craving meat. So anyway, if you enjoy that story, get on whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. Netflix, thumbs up. Double thumbs up helps a lot. Really helps drive us whatever lets them know that you're watching. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for hanging out with us. And if you're listening on Netflix, there are hundreds of episodes that came out before this. We're not a new show. We've been doing this since 2017. So many more. We have all of them. those shows on whatever wherever you listen to podcasts we've been doing this since since ezra was an innocent person ezra was a minor when we started this show she hadn't done anything wrong nothing so uh definitely do that tell your friends do all that kind of shit shut up and give me murder.com is where you get tickets for live shows please come out and see us at a live show uh september 18th milwaukee we have a few more tickets that we just released that were our that you guys get uh you can buy those next night state theater minneapolis then october 3rd dallas october 16th and 17th in san jose and sacramento and november 13th 14th terrytown new york and medford massachusetts and terrytown's almost sold out they're like 95 sold out get those tickets right now shut up and give me murder.com listen to our other shows crime and sports you don't have to like sports no promise just check it out also uh small town murder uh small this is small town murder you're 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keep seeing us patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that shit and more in addition to that we're going to be talking about crime and sports add free all of our shows all add free in addition and you get a shout out jimmy do me a favor my friend hit me with the names of the best goddamn people in the fucking world who would never do any of this shit to us ever there's too much to even get into for this episode hit me with them right goddamn now this week's executive producer susan fuel fuel gary howard is in baxter tennessee and it's his 20th anniversary how about that hey how's it going happy anniversary gary happy anniversary she's very nice too we've met her i didn't make that i mean either working on it a second time now yeah addy murphy uh penis penis penis james oh there are whores in minnesota that's what is uh some man wanted me to say okay why would you want me to say that alicia grant happy hours in yazoo city mississippi he loses this week i'd rather be 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