What We Learned From the NHL Offseason & What’s Still to Come ft. Shayna Goldman

(upbeat music) - From our Downtown Toronto studios, welcome once again to the sheet for this Thursday, August 27th, I have to check the date there. Welcome to the program today. We're all standing by and waiting with baited breath for the Killmaker contract to drop. So Zach is on that as we speak. If it comes down while the show is live, we'll get it to you right away. We have Shana Goldman from the Athletic and the Tumanyman podcast. And the program here today is Shana set to start off with us right out the top. We're standing by for Goldman here coming up in a couple of moments. We got a lot to get to today. And we thought since this is the end of August and we're certain to go from looking back to the summer to looking forward to the season and the training camps and remaining spots and eBug hireings, which bring their own announcements as well, which is a new wrinkle in the NHL as we all know this year. Thought we'd have a look back at some of the more salient moments and more impactful moments. That was the summer of 2026 around the National Hockey League. And everybody has their own sort of idea of what change things or what are we gonna look back on five years from now and say that moment really move things forward, change the way, I think we're all on the same page about this one. And it's the Leo Carlson offer sheet and the subsequent number and what's happened to the Anaheim Ducks ever since. Listen man, the Minchikov contract did a lot of damage too, but so not to bias the jury here right away. I'm imagining that as Shana joins us here from the athletic and the too many men podcasts, that's gonna be one area that we key in on considering how much the cascade effect was profound. Hello Shana, before we get to a couple of things here, I wanna do a quick rewind to two days ago. So Zach and I went to Fendlin Falls where Aaron Ambrose, for only the Montreal Victoir, now with PWHL Las Vegas, had her Walter Cup party. And we got a couple of gorgeous pictures that Aaron's, as you hired a photographer for the whole event. It took for us. So I have a look at these gorgeous shots, mainly of me, but I think we have one of Zach. Okay, there's Zach, let's get Zach off. Okay, get Philly off as you, let's get to the other picture quickly here. Let's try, oh, look at that. Look at that with Aaron at Fendlin Falls. This was an interesting week, this past week, for the Walter Cup. Do you wanna weigh in on that one quickly before we move along? - Yeah, you stole the Walter Cup. - Clearly, yeah, you and the Chaos boys. - And then you wanna watch what Chaos is. - Yeah, you and the Chaos boys going on about, oh yeah, oh yeah. - That's how it was, it was possibly at the party. - Well, I mean, that was, that was, no, you know what, that was also the same one that Abby Murphy used, which was the Minnesota one. - Down now. - No, you know what, you know what's kinda cool too, 'cause I can't see like the Florida Panthers loaning the Carolina Hurricanes, the Stanley Cup for their party, but that was a nice little bit of business by Minnesota loaning the other trophy for the celebrations. But as I mentioned on the program of the day, all trophies need stories. And now, the Walter Cup has a story, although it must have been a couple of sleepless nights, obviously, for some of the people in the PWA jail. Another thing I wanna mention before we get to the summer that was, this is a big summer for you. - It's still summer, don't take it away from me, I'm not done. - Dude, it's gone, I put my bikini away, like I'm not wearing the bikini anymore. - This is a big one for you, and congratulations are in order you got engaged. You've been with Rich for 16 years? - Mm-hmm. - You're easing me by saying, (laughs) - Agey, you know, I was a breakfast with someone, tonight I'm going to see TNA Wrestling in Brampton, I was at breakfast with someone from the company this morning. And one of the things I said was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, now that I'm a little bit older, and he said you could take the ER out of that sentence, Jeff, like oh man, too soon, too soon. This is great, congratulations. And here's my question, when you were finally asked because we all know Shana Goldman, sometimes a little bit salty-tongued, when Rich asked you to marry him, what's the first thing that came out of your mouth? - I said, are you fucking kidding me? I was shocked, 16 years. - 16 years. - I know, but you know, at listen, and then he's like, didn't you notice this, and he's listing stuff and I'm like, no. None of that, nothing, literally none. He's like, I heard him like fiddling around in his bag right before it, but we were collecting rocks. So I gave him all the rocks to hold, 'cause I only have like a little bag. And then we're out on the water, there's a bunch of rocks. And I'm like, he has a video of it, but like it's me like squatting down, taking pictures. Like as oblivious as all hell, and then I turn and that's what he's doing. And I'm like, oh, this is happening. - And now you got a story, are you fucking kidding me? - Yeah. - San Diego Alvin, when finally proposed to after 16 years. That's amazing. Congratulations to you. Have you already talked about or discussed wedding themes? - No, everyone keeps asking, like, what do you want to do? And my answer is, nothing. I want to do something very quiet and be left alone, but I don't think that's an option. So I've thrown a couple of things out there, and I've gotten a couple of eye rolls so far, and it's a lot. So we got to figure that out. Nothing too over the top. That's all I know. - Hockey tennis wrestling. Well, either of these three things be represented at your wedding. - No, no, unless it's like a dive bar theme, which I feel like could be kind of cool. I could be a live bar theme, like fancy, but a dive bar. I don't know, I haven't, I know sports, none of that, we can't have that, that's work. - Okay, very good. No, I know. I always kind of, I'm not sure if you're the same way. Outside of my broadcast studio in the basement or parts of my office, if you just walked into my house, you would not be able to tell what I do for a living. And I like that. There's plenty of people, there's actually, there's one person who was a mascot in the NHL that I know, and you're walking to their house, and it's lined with pictures upon pictures, upon pictures of that person as the mascot. I always like the idea that when someone comes into my house, they have no idea what I do for a living, because there's like, you're living, and then there's living, you know what I mean? - Yeah, like our, if you come into the downstairs, not right, like upstairs, if you came to my office, or even in the garage, there's a lot of like hockey signage stuff in there, 'cause it's like old thrifted flags that are cool and bad news. But if you walk into the house, I think the only sign would be the three TVs. Because that is like, you walk in the front door, it's right there. And then also like the other rooms, there's another room with two TVs. Like that's the thing. Most people come into the house, and they're like, how many TVs do you have? And then we'll give them a number, and they're like, oh, it must be for work. And it's like, yes. - How many eyeballs do you have? Shayna, are there like eyeballs on you that we can't see right now that you're covering up that you need these three screens for at the same time? - Everyone knows why, at least. It's no secret, you know? Like if someone comes into the house for like a repair thing, they'll look and like you kind of see a head turn, but like, you know, I need them. - You need them. - I like to watch a lot of things. - You need them. I can't watch last thing on this point. We'll get the hockey. I can't, once upon a time, I used to be able to watch a ton of games all at the same time. And again, as I get older, take out the ER, Marick, I can, my max capacity now is three. I can watch three at a time and get a general send. Once upon a time, man. Like I was like those like 70s prog rock bands with like massive drum sets and like 18 different keyboards and all that and could watch it and get a, I'm at three now. And I'm sure by the end of a couple of years, it'll be two. - Yeah, no, I think three is a sweet spot, but it's also, like I was very strict on like how I wanted the TVs arranged because I didn't want one like forward from the other because that'll distract me. Like if I have a laptop with a fourth game, which I'll sometimes do, like you're either focusing on that or everything that's on the wall together, but it's also like different levels of focus, right? 'Cause if you're watching three at once, it's different than, okay, I'm gonna go back and rewatch this one and come through it later. And I guess I'm good at tuning it out, but it is funny like when we'll have only one thing on, I am like looking around like what else could, could be happening at the same time. (laughing) - Calm your brain down and focus on one thing, Shannon, go. Well, we're gonna go topic by topic here. And listen, I'll just sort of open the floor to you, even though I've already sort of biased the audience with, you know, the one that I think is the most important event of the summer outside of your engagement was probably Daniel Brier shocking the world and scaring the Anaheim ducks in the process. And the cascade continues because we don't know what this is ultimately gonna mean for Cutter Go-Chay, either with the ducks or with another team. But when you look back on this summer, which as you mentioned is not done yet, what pops to mind for you right away is like the pivotal quintessential moment of the hockey summer. And it has to be the offer sheet because you did have things leading up to it, right? Like everything the ducks did leading up to that moment is what made it, what it was. It wasn't just that an offer sheet was sent out, one of that magnitude of players gonna make 18 million, the flyers could get back. Like there's all those layers to it. But even if you go back, it was the threat was always there for Anaheim. And not just with Leo Carlson, it was with Zoeger. They moved him before an offer sheet could happen. They moved him before they extended Minchikov. They signed the AJ Greer contract. You looked at all of these things and saw this could be a problem for the ducks, but also knowing the NHL and how every general manager acts like they're friends sometimes, like we don't see enough of that spite. We don't see enough teams leverage those situations to really pressure another. And here was a general manager willing to do it for a top line center, which is incredibly tough to get for the maximum price on both sides of the equation. When you look at the draft picks, when you look at the actual salary, and it changed everything, right? Because it changes everything for the ducks. Now they're in a situation with Minchikov making more than he should, with the GoTA situation, how ever that unfolds. It also changed the game for the RFAs, who then they're signing those lesser term contracts with bigger dollar signs. And we're seeing star players get their due and all the sudden that has its own ripple effect. So that has to be the biggest moment. The other part of that too is, I mean, obviously from a fan's point of view, from a media point of view, this was all catnip and this was great. This was terrifying for general managers around the NHL and was it two weeks ago at NHL.com, Chris Patrick, the general manager of the Washington capitals. When he's right now negotiating with Ryan Leonard, Justin Sordiff as well, he's essential paraphrase him here. Essentially, the landscape has changed now and we don't want to be in the same position. Like this one terrified GMs in a way that the Doug Armstrong, St. Louis Blues offer sheets with the oilers a couple of summers ago. Didn't scare general managers. This one legitimately frighten general managers. Man, I think everybody looked around and said, "Man, I really don't want to be Pat for Beak next year. I really don't want to be explaining this one to my owner how he's going to have their right to check for $18 million dollars a season here for Leo Carlson." And that one, again, and we'll see what happens with Cutter Goche, but that's where the shock waves, like that's where it was scary. For everybody else, it was fun. For players, it was fun. Yeah, getting paid. For fans, it was like, wow, this is amazing. NHL is so cool. This is great. Media, this is like, okay, we're afraid to go on vacation now because more stuff could happen, but managers were terrified. This was like, this was a horror movie for NHL general managers. That's what, for me, the big, profound cascade is now the behavior of other managers with RFA. You don't think Don Woodell looked at that and went, "Come on, seriously? What's that going to mean for our guy?" Yeah, it should be a nightmare scenario for general managers, but also it should scare them into doing the right things because this is not saying. What is the right. I don't know. Prioritize your RFA talent while they're in their primes. Sign players for what they're worth in their primes and worry about everything else later. Don't overspend in unrestricted free agency. If you're going to invest in any player, it should be in these star players that you're signing out the right age range, right? It's totally different when you're signing a 23-year-old for 18 million versus giving a 29, a 31-year-old, a 32-year-old, 8 million, 10 million. And we're seeing the numbers go up for the middle class. That's scary to me because those are the pitfalls for general managers. Now, yes, they might lose some leverage here because there's a threat of an offer sheet, but it should teach everyone a lesson that these restrictive reagents should not just be pushed around and be pushed as an afterthought. Prioritize those players, build around those players. The best way to get star players is to drift and develop them, which means you're going to have to extend them multiple times. Do it ahead of the curve. You don't technically have that July for a deadline that everyone else does when it comes to unrestricted free agency. But if you settle it, June 20th, you're probably doing it for a much better price. Yeah, you know, it's interesting too. I think a lot of it too. And again, the old, the old, the old-style general managers are being forced. You say the old general managers, you could just say it. You're not seeing it from as many of the younger general managers as the older general managers. The old general managers are being dragged kicking and screaming into a reality that. And this even goes back to around 2008 to 2010 to 2015, with the rise of analytics blogs saying, you don't need to wait 300 games to know what you have. By the time a defenseman is 21, you have a good idea of who that defense, or certainly that liar sometimes. But you have an idea of who that player is going to become, where a lot of other managers want to take their time and be patient. And we're not going to reward until we see two to 300 games. I think the new era of NHL as ushered in this summer is saying, you need to be sharper, faster. You know, you need to take stock of who you have and project out a lot quicker than you have. Again, and this all goes back to the fear of the Leo Carlson situation, where no manager wants to be caught like that. Again, this is, I think, finally, the new school thinking of you do have a good sense of who players are going to be when they're 20 and 21 years old. Yeah. And there's going to be instances where you don't, right? You look at Rasmus Daly and he gets a two-year deal before he gets his current contract. And they, you know, it was a little bit more wait and see. In some cases, it's going to be the players wanting to prove themselves. Seeing what the incoming cap looks like saying, I want that extra year or two to thrive. Maybe they're only on the third pair. Maybe they're a number four defenseman. And they think they're a top pair guy. They want the opportunity to play at that level and then earn a contract that reflects that level. So we're going to still see instances like that. And I think the important thing is not every player is going to play one or two seasons. And all of a sudden, you'll know there were 15 and 18 million. Those are the rare instances. The true top line center is one of the hardest things to get in the NHL or right-handed defenseman, right? No one's saying every player is going to have a macro and celebrate any contract and you're not going to know that quickly. But you look at a team like say, the Montreal Canadians. And how they've worked ahead of the curve. And I think all of their key RFAs were signed a year early, other than Kolkhoffild. I think his was a couple months out. But if I remember correctly, it was Lane Hudson, Nick Suzuki, Slavkovski and Damodol. They're all handled much earlier. That full season ahead of time. And they're getting bet on at a different point. So you're making that bet sooner. But then the price tag is completely different. Those contracts for the most part looked cost-effective day one. And you knew it was going to look even better and age even better. And the Damodol contract signed. We're like, that's a slam dunk. And it hasn't even started. It's not going to start for a year. And the thing about that one too, what would have happened if Damodol waited like two more weeks? What would has number have been? Like, honestly, the timing that Montreal has had with their players is it's a masterclass. To me, though, just as an aside on Montreal, so far, great. Everything looking awesome, moving forward, all of it. Like, keep all the praise right now on Montreal management. They've done a great job. The challenge that I see here is, can you sign a big free agent? Can because we see, obviously, we see big free agents going on Florida, tample-like tax free, all these types of things. Is winning enough of a lure to bring someone to as high taxed a province as Quebec? Can they get players to go? To me, that's going to be the next challenge here for Kent Hughes. Do you agree with that one? Because you can't just do team like, you need to be able to, look at how Florida put it together. Look how Carolina put it together. Whether it's trades, whether it's straps, whether it's waiver, you need to be able to use all of it to put together a Stanley Cup winner. My question is still, can they attract a big name free agent? I think so. I think that they're not every team could do that based on winning alone, but I think you're going to have some players that will prioritize other things. And that's understandable. Some players want to be in certain areas. Some players care more about the taxes. Sometimes it's a combination, sometimes it's about the role. But I think that what Montreal's building is so special and so exciting, I would be shocked if there are players that don't want to be a part of that. And once Montreal enters that phase, and I think they're officially stepping into it of the, okay, you have your core locked up. Now you can start looking for complimentary players. And this is the big thing here. They're not going to be using free agency to build a core. They already did that. That's so important. That's great for a million reasons to do it. This early in their playoff window. But I think now we'll see them start trying to find those complimentary pieces. I wonder how much of it it's going to be July 1st versus acting ahead of a free agency day and trading for those players and then extending them. And I think that applies to other restricted free agents, like Noah Dobson being willing to extend there, right, because they acquire him, they extend him. And now that's a very good piece, because he fits the timeline a little bit better. So they were never a team that it would have made sense for them to go off to Alex Talk for me. It was like, you need to do that, you don't need to. But I think that they're smart enough to be able to add. Let's say the veteran talent. They'll find ways to find the right amount of high end veteran talent to compliment the core. You know what it allows you to do? It allows you to spend on luxury items. You've saved so much in so many other areas that you now have the ability to add luxury items. Items that you look at and you say, do we need it? Maybe not. But man, it makes winning easier when you have it. Like to me, the ultimate luxury item. That was Phil Kessel. For all the knocks that he had defensively and all these types of things and games off and all that was the ultimate luxury item. The guy that comes down the wing and snaps into really easy to take the pressure off up and down the bench in a game, oh we're grinding for a goal. Don't worry Phil's going to go snap into like that type of luxury item. That's what Montreal has put themselves in a position to go out and acquire and you get those on July 1st. That's why I really like what Montreal has done here. Any more thoughts here on Anaheim and listen, there's more, what we're going to go through the same thing. Probably with Beckett Seneca. Do you have a thought on Qatar Goche here? Yeah, they're going to do the same thing with Beckett Seneca. Are they going to finally learn? I don't know. Do not sign big unrestricted free agents to play on in your bottom six before you have your core contracts figured out. That should be management 101, get ahead of the curve and they didn't so will they make the right move? Who knows? Who knows what's going to happen with Qatar Goche? If I'm Anaheim, I think this one's different from Mason McTavish, right? Like McTavish misses training camp because of the contract situation and it's at a time where they have a new coach coming in bringing in a new system that relies a lot on tempo and pace. Now if you're a general manager, you know what Joe Kwonville is bringing to the Anaheim ducks. You have an idea of it. And hired him based off that, right? You also know what Mason, Mason McTavish brings to the table and that the skating isn't perfect. So is that the guy you want to miss camp? No. And then everything spirals out from there and you could kind of see that happening. They should have anticipated that better. It's different with Qatar Goche because if he misses camp, it's not like he's going to be behind and the ball is going to keep rolling and he can't catch up and he can't learn the new system and all of a sudden this like infusion of pace is going to totally trip him up because he was on the team last year and he knows how to play the system already. That helps. But do you want to risk it? At this point, I would say no, absolutely not. Why? Why do it again? Why go through that again? Especially it's the early stages of your playoff window, right? Like this, this is just, it's not the start you want to get off to. Do you think they're a playoff team? Like on because if it like sure, like I mean, they kept Leo Carlson. Now he's making a ton of dough, but they haven't, you know, they've done more subtracting than they've done additions specifically on that back end. Like you still consider Anaheim a playoff team? They're lucky. They're in the Pacific division. They should be in the playoff picture. They should be in the playoff picture, but they should be viewing themselves as a playoff team. The window is open. You got to run with it. And it just feels like they've done everything to shoot themselves in the foot from building on all of last year's momentum and also, if I remember correctly, Troy Terry is not going to be healthy to start the season, right? So now you're down another winger. So to be down to, yes, I expect Seneca to be better. Yes, they have, you know, more players that they could throw in and young talent to infuse into the lineup and make it all click. Do you want to risk that? Do you want to put yourselves behind the ball any further, especially when you're not a true contender yet when you're not, you know, a team like Vegas or Edmonton, they can sleepwalk and still make it. You're not, you're not in that position yet. So that's, that's the issue for me. Dylan Larkin ended a threat red wings. The threat red wing is still looking for a manager, I think to have, it's especially when you have like someone like Simon Edmonton who's saying, hello, over here, yeah, an important thing to have. And then there's a Dylan Larkin situation on top of that and the narrow list of teams that he'll agree to, to, to be traded to, what do you want to begin here? Probably the manager and then we'll get to Larkin because I wonder if there's any way that Detroit, because making the deal is going to be so tough. I keep looking at it and saying to myself, it were an easy trade to make. It would already be done by now. It does feel more and more like Dylan Larkin's got to come back and play his way into a trade. If that's what he wants, getting there's going to be difficult because you know what that rink is going to be like every time he touches the buck, I can't see him with a sea on the sweater. That's not a chance for that happening. Although, and again, we've seen crazier things in sports, do you think that there's any type of way that with the new manager, whenever this person comes in, that they can massage this in a way that it doesn't make an ugly atmosphere in Detroit? You know, upon further reflection, the team has made some moves, there's a new manager, I'm willing to give it another shot and maybe I was too hasty, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is there a way to thread this needle or is it gone too far? I don't think any situation can't be remedied. We've seen weird things happen over the years and I think the fact that Eiserman's gone is going to open the door to this and it's tough because, look, he's a franchise icon and so many are going to look at him and be like, the team is so much better than it was when he took over and you would be fair in that argument. It's not like they were in a good place when he took over but I think a lot of fans can see the missteps along the way. Now, so many fans are rightfully going to vilify Larkin and I completely get it too. I get it from both sides of the equation and this one because I never want to tell fans how to feel because they should feel however they want, right? I agree, whatever it is and if your captain says, I want out when he wasn't part of the solution down the stretch, you know, it's not like he, in season's past, you could look at him and be like, look, he did everything and more, that team was on his back. If you want to say that didn't happen this year, okay, sure, right? Like, whatever. But I do wonder if there's a way to mend it and it's, he's going to have to face them. He's, I don't think necessarily stripping the seed from him is the move too. At the beginning of the summer, I used to do that to do that. Paya, who paused on that? Why not? I think it just puts more tension on the situation. I think it's just playing more emphasis on it. Yeah, but I mean, he wasn't wrong too in so many ways, right? If we take out the team USA out of the equation and everything that was going on with that and players kind of like making their future from there, there's a very simple argument of saying the frustration was so built up from year after year, our team was not positioned to succeed. Yes, we could have done more down the stretch to avoid collapsing in March, but we never got the reinforcements we needed and it wasn't just at the deadline. It was in the off seasons and there was no collaboration. It was a frosty front office and everyone saw it, right? Dylan Larkin gets his extension, but also Bertuzzi is traded and the rugs pulled out from under them and also you're not contending anymore. Sorry, all the progress you did, whatever. And then it's like they finally make a move and it just felt like they were throwing a band-aid on a situation that needed a lot more than that. And it was worth that should have been done ahead of time. So, you know, is Larkin part of the problem this year? Sure, but there's a way to be like that situation just became untenable and you want to pass forward. I almost feel like you take away the sea. You're vilifying him even more. And I don't know if that's, I don't know if it's the right move, like I don't know the dressing room, like I don't know Larkin personally, so I can't say it. But I almost wonder if you're putting more emphasis and more of a target versus calming the waters and brushing it under the rug. I feel like you take away the sea and now it's like it changes everything a little too much, maybe. I just look at it from a fans point of view. If I'm a Detroit Red Rings fan and you know, game one, there's Dylan Larkin with the sea on the sweater. And I'm saying, oh yeah, there's our captain who's asked for a trade. There's our captain who wants out. The other part of this too is to Larkin's point about, okay, I've given this team, and again, like he signed the contract. Like I don't, don't think that we've lost sight of the fact that he signed this contract for that term, okay? But part of me looks at this and says now considering the inactivity by the Detroit Red Wings in the off season punctuated now by a new manager search, the Detroit Red Wings have been jumped by Buffalo, have been jumped by Montreal. Last couple of years jump by Ottawa, we'll see what happens with them this season. It's almost as if like Detroit now has to deliberately take a couple of steps back. For one, maybe two more seasons. And if you're Dylan Larkin, you're saying like, I don't know if he can widen the number of teams he'll agree to be traded to and that will facilitate a trade a lot easier. But if you're Larkin now, doesn't that just reinforce the issue you have? Again, he signed the deal. But doesn't that reinforce the idea that I'm surrendering all these, what's supposed to be my golden years here in the NHL to a team that's going, that the treadmills won backwards. Yeah, and if they trade, listen, if they trade Larkin, they have to take steps back. There's no way around it. But the flip side of it is then you could say, well, if you have them, you could have stayed on the same path, but because of this situation, because he has for a trade management, it was not able to focus on anything else. And then they had to get rid of visorment and now they're in this situation. But on the other side of that, because again, we're just going back and forth, devil's advocate here of every situation because nothing's black and white is, had they just gone with the status quo and had Steve Iseman still in charge, would they have done anything this summer? And you could make the case, they might not have done much of anything. They would have been like, well, you got Justin fall. That was your deadline acquisition, and they're going to spend the entire summer trying to sign Edmonds in, which literally when it was cider and Raymond, we're up, that was the focus of the summer. And they didn't do enough of anything else, right? Like they bring in John Gibson, but what more did they do? So in a way, maybe he facilitated. the change that needed to happen that no one wanted to make because of what Steve Iserman makes the means to this franchise. And that's the challenge of having a franchise icon as your general manager. Maybe this was the change that had to come. It really depends on who comes in and what the vision is, right? Because whoever they're hiring is going to sell them on their vision. You're selling hope one way or another. Are you selling hope for now? Are you selling hope for three years from now? Five years from now? Whatever it might be. Then there's the conversation to have with Larkin and see how it all fits because maybe there's a way to still improve. Maybe there's a way to change up, you know, the developmental systems or the coaching situation or making fringe moves to allow younger players to jump up a little more because you've seen enough progress. Maybe you see something different because you have a clean slate. There's so many different moving pieces. So it really depends how the first chip falls before we can figure out how the rest of them are going to. But it's it's a tough situation to navigate. And the longer they go without picking someone, the less time they're going to have to clean it up. So that's where it gets even dicier because you don't want it that it's like a desperation move because you have no time to do anything else in training camps in a couple days and then all the sun and the season starts. Here you are. It's a again like this is and I know it's moving really slowly, but this is the most interesting slow story that we've that we've seen in a while and Red Wing's fans are right now like, okay, don't worry we're used to slow. We're used to things going at a at a at a Glacier's pace, but that's that very much continues. Do you have a thought on ebugs? Because here's my thing on ebugs. I know I don't know why I'm so fast at it with this like a lot of those are. I'm really curious to see which team goes through the most ebugs. Every team has to has to hire an ebug. Okay, it is mandatory. I mentioned on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, I liked Bill Randford's old idea, which is you cycle through your EC and do like a maybe 10 games or 10 days or everyone do it. Have you ECHL gold tenders come up to get the NHL experience? Get the NHL podium, but and they're there to face shooters of practice, etc. and they're there in case you need the gold tender blah blah blah as a as a normal ebug does. And you have someone experience and you have someone that you're developing in the process. NHL's not going that direction. I'm curious to see because there are going to be injuries, whether it's hips, whether it's knees, whether it's getting an NHL shot in a place that really hurts and injures you. Let's not forget these are not NHL gold tenders and they're going to be facing NHL shooters in practice. I'm curious to see which team goes through the most ebugs. I don't think that we're going injury free in the ebug class this year and what does that mean? But you have a thought on on ebugs anything resonate with you here. I just think it's important to make sure these ebugs get enough reps that they're ready. So it's just collaborating with some of the American. Like amateur try out, get a couple games in here there. Obviously, you can't do that everywhere. It's not like there's it's you're the islanders. I got only going to play in the American, but just go face shooters. The problem is though, like not everyone has that. You're the islanders and you have an ebug for the islanders. Your age all teams just move. So I think you have to like widen the net a little bit more college teams. Can you be someone that comes in for practices? Women's teams. Can you come in and be available for practice? And just getting more reps with, you know, actual affiliations and teams. Like I think that'll go a long way to make sure everyone's like prepped and ready and you're not just going in ice cold. And I'm sure these goalies get their practices in and some of them might be, you know, have experience with this already. And we're not going to see them play a ton. And you can't do it that is something too disruptive to their lives, right? Because everyone this is not a full-time job. You're an ebug. It's different. But I just think making sure they get enough reps is going to be like the key here. I've talked to people from a couple of different teams who think that just because this is fraught with so many questions and potential injuries and practice and how do we navigate this? And a lot more teams, I should say a couple of more teams now are looking at going with carrying three gold tenders anyhow. There are some teams that are just sort of saying, you know what? Let's plug our nose. It's only going to last one season. Yeah. It's this is a trial and error thing. It just feels like they're going to have to like experiment see what works, what doesn't work, and just keep changing it based on that. This is going to be this generation's version of the Foxpuck, the glowpuck. Hey, remember that? Remember we had ebugs one year? Less front-facing though. Way less front-facing. So I don't know how high priority it'll be relative to that. I tend to think that the glowpuck was a good idea, but the technology just wasn't there. I think it would be if they introduced it now with the technology that they have for for television, for digital, whatever, I think it would be better. But because they introduced it at a time where it just looked clumsy and cumbersome and interfered with the viewing experience, they don't want to go back ever before. But not a bad idea, all for you. No, try it again for an all-star game or something like that. But also if they reintroduce it, if to be so careful that broadcast then don't overdo it because that's something we see all the time, right? Like it's a power play. And everyone has the player tags above their head. Show it for the face off. Take it off and let them cook. If you want to show it for a replay, go off. But it's like knowing when to use it. Why not? Like can you trust them with another tool? I don't know. Okay, a couple more things here. By the way, of all the remaining free agents, whether it's, you know, Tolvenin comes to mind, Taurusenko, Patrick Lina, Logan Stanley. What happens here? Are there any remaining free agents that you'll blank a bird? Like, are there any free agents that you'll look at and go like, "I don't know how this person doesn't have a job?" Um, I honestly, it's really all of them. Like I feel like there's this space for all of those players to have jobs. Like I don't think Logan Stanley is the most effective defenseman and sometimes gets used above his value because he's big. Or someone like Blankenberg might because he's a smaller defenseman, get undercut. But it's like there are definitely teams that could use that extra puck mover. But Lina is maybe the most interesting to me because of all of the players, the raw talent is obviously there. It's just the right situation and it's, you know, he's been in different spots. I feel like there are teams out there that would just make sense. Like a team like say, you think about the Kings, how they make Kuzmanko look at there, right? Because they have the two-way structure. They have the playmakers that you can just let him be that pure shooter. Someone like Carolina has that. And I just wonder, there have to be a couple team. The Minnesota makes sense, right? Especially if they don't have Teresenko. Like Lina would make sense for me there. As like a third-line player who does you have all the substance in the world? No, but goal scoring is the name of the game. Goal scorers don't draw on trees that if you someone you can kind of slot in to certain situations, like you could make it work. That's the thing that's interesting to me, specifically with Teresenko and Lina. You're right. Like goals are expensive and goals are hard to get. You take them wherever you can. Here's to, I don't know, they have flaws in their game clearly. But here's to guys who can just rip it and can't find out. I don't know if they've priced themselves out. I don't know. We've seen that before. But here's to guys that can rip the puck and there's nowhere in the NHL for them. Yeah, a little odd. But again, if you're a team watching some of these restrictive reagents, situations still go unfinished and you're waiting for that resolution to know how to spend your cap, whether you have the players or not and you're hoping you can swoop in, right? Like you see Cutter Go Tia, you're going, "Let me dedicate assets to one of these players," you go, "Let me see what the ducks are going to do here." You have to keep your options open too. But yeah, I feel like there are places in the NHL for all of those players. Let me ask you about the Carolina Hurricanes. Can they do this again? Like they're coming back with the same team and provided their healthy. Even with, again, and I know that everyone in Carolina are willing their eyeballs all to go, "Okay, again, we got to hear about this," with the Florida Panthers back. Carolina Hurricanes can still win this thing? Yeah, the foundation's there and like, sure, you're going to have guys who are older, right? Jordan Stahl, Jordan Mark, they're all older. But you're also going to have now Logan Stankov and with a full season of playing center under his belt. And we saw the growth of the season into the playoffs. That line. Jackson Blake, another year of experience. After Olympics, that line was just on fire and got better and better and better. Oh my God. Yeah, they have the young talent to offset it. They have other players in the system. They're going to have a healthier Seth Jarvis who, you know, wasn't at his best in the playoffs. Yep. But Blake and Stankov and are going to be so much better. You look on the back end, Kendra Miller, another year of, you know, a full season of playing at this level. That consistency was in his game. You saw the difference once. Sleeve and came back to that defense. So now it's just more practice for them and the negation situation. That's another unresolved one. But if he's there, that's another year of reps for him to see what he can do. Can he jump up into a higher role? Could they trust him a little bit more in tougher minutes? What can you see? And they have the whole regular season to mix and match, figure it out, change responsibilities. The strength of their system allows them to experiment more than I think other teams. And since they know it works, like we saw them make tweaks in the playoffs. We saw them make tweaks with their lines heading into the playoffs by putting ealers in a different role, right? With guys like Stall and Martin, knowing this might work, but also knowing when they needed to shake up those combinations. So yeah, that familiar out of factor is huge for them. Did they? And this is going to sound weird because he's a really good player. But did they dodge a bullet by not getting Brady Kachak. Again, not a knock on Brady Kachak. I just don't know that that is a fit with the Carolina Hurricanes and with Rod Brindamore. Maybe Dodge the Bullet is sounds harsh, but we'll just throw it out. - No, I'll say, they dodged the Bullet. - They dodged the Bullet? - They did dodge the Bullet, but they were a team that, yeah, they did not, first of all, they're not the team that needed to spend on that kind of player, right? And I think the other part of it is, you have something that's so good and it works, and you look at Brady Kachak, and if you're acquiring him, if you're already a contender, like the Panthers did, like the Keynes did, then you're questioning what his role is there, because in Florida, he might not get powerplay one time, or someone else is now gonna lose out on it. He doesn't have to be that number one or number two guy that he was never cut out to be. So in that way, he's gonna be in a better position to succeed, but then you have to think about the acquisition cost and what's being spent to bring in a player like that, right? When you think about what he's gonna be for Florida versus what he was for Ottawa, all of a sudden, you can start going through what that return was and go, well, that makes sense for what he wasn't Ottawa, but not what they're gonna use him as here. And I think Carolina would have that issue. The other part of it too is the energy and the vibes, and some of the decision-making, it just wasn't, right? And I think that playoff series, they saw at first hand on the decisions went to fight and went to take penalties, and went to leave his team exposed without one of their better players. I just don't think they need that. I think that they have something so good there. And while I think Brady Kitchak is going to be a great fit with the Panthers, I wouldn't be racing to spend that for someone like that. - Okay, let me close on this one. And it's about players that you want to see win the Stanley Cup. Like no player wants to be, go down to history as the best player to never win the Stanley Cup. You're Joe Thornton's, you're Marcel Dion's, you're Gilbert Perot's, you're Henry Kludquist, you're Jerome again, the list is long, and it's hard of the never to win the Stanley Cup and soon there's going to be even more teams making it that much more difficult. Rod Brindamore says something that's really struck with me. And that is, when you win the Stanley Cup, you, it's like a weight is taken off your shoulders that you never even knew was there, but just implicitly you carry through your entire career. You don't know it's there until it's gone. It's a really smart point, I think, by Brindamore, that you carry it even though you're unaware that it exists. I just love that point. So take your pick of anybody in the NHL, whether they feel they're carrying that 500 pound boulder on their shoulder or not. Is there a player that you look at? And you say, I just, 'cause once upon a time, we said, there's about eyes are meant, about Ovechkin, about whomever. Who's that for you? Well, I'm really happy it came off Taylor Hall's shoulders because I feel like he's been through so much over the years and has been so underappreciated for just how good he is. Like, you think about when he was traded to the Keynes and everyone's like, oh, he's cooked. And it's like, no, he's not. Relax and look how good he is. I mean, I'll go for someone in the later stages of their career. How about like a Claude Giroux? Like, to me, that's someone that's a really good one. That's a really good one. That's really good. The old guy without a cup rankings, we all love from from back in there every year. And I look forward to them because you want to see that refresher of the list. And I know Giroux has ranked really highly on it over the years, but like, he's such a fantastic player that I think he's the one guy. I'm like, I want to see that weight taken off his shoulders. I'm with you there. Okay, I kind of thought you were going to make David. Okay, but Giroux is an awesome one. Oh, I mean, that's what I said. I was going older players. Yes, it would be fun to see with that, you know, off make David's shoulders, but I think it's going to need a minute for that one. I just want to see him happy. Like, you get to this point in your career, you have one which is like your default setting. You're gonna see a two seconds later, snap back in and be like, no, I'm just kidding. There's more to do. Now I need to. Default setting is cranky. It was like when Colorado finally won, and we realized that McKinnon had a platyth. It's like, you just want to see, like, be happy. It's, it's hockey here. Like, Ilya Briskalla, if you used to say, he's so upset for it's hockey game. He's too competitive, one won't be enough. No, I know you always want more. You're not wrong. Hey, listen, thanks so much for popping by as always. Congratulations to you and Rich. We can't wait. I don't know if you have a date picked out or a time frame or when or how much of a planner you are for these things, but congrats to you and Rich. And we'll talk to you soon, my friend. You'll be good. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm Paul Man from The Too Many Men Podcast, and you can read her at the athletic. One thing I do want to mention here before we get Zach Sautz on a couple of things, you can welcome yourself to the next era of nation gear. The nation network is partnered with Level Wear to bring you a whole new standard of apparel. I got a hoodie in the car. Premium fabrics elevate a fits in more variety than ever before. It fits cozy. Introducing the limited edition offseason social club collection built for the sports between sports. From polos, a premium tease, hats, hoodies, these are pieces designed for every part of your lifestyle, not just game day. Because being a fan isn't just a season, it's who you are. Head to nationgear.ca, follow nation gear on social, and subscribe to our newsletter to be the first to shop new products, limited edition collections, and exclusive drops. I love that saying by Rod Brenda Moore, winning the cup is like taking a weight off your shoulder to act that you never knew was there. What a great line, but Brenda Moore, it's a great one, eh? - Yeah, I like that. And I guess for him, he's done it twice, eh? - Once the player, once the-- - Yeah, which is cool, but yeah, I like that one. I like that one. You know, by the way, one thing I think about every time I hear you say that you want to see Connor McDavid smile, I don't know how familiar you are with the meme game and stuff. - Well, define the meme game, I've seen memes. - Well, this one is one of my favorites, and I think about it every time you say you want to see McDavid smile. It's this old guy who posted a picture on Facebook where he's not smiling in the first reply is, a smile might be good, and he replies, nothing to smile about in my life. - Wow. - I think about McDavid every time, when you say you want to see him smile. - I thought you were going to do the awkward tourist picture of McDavid at the airport. - There used to be this Japanese game show, and there was a guy, you'll love this. And his name was, oh, God, it's like Handshake Man, or Mr. Handshake, so what they would do is, they would put a clock on him, and he'd go up to like, I don't know, like politicians or celebrities or whatever, and he'd shake their hand, but he wouldn't let go, and they would time how long he could, the person whose hand they were shaking, would actually stick with it. - Okay, no, Mr. Handshake Man, or something like, Mr. Handshake Man, that was it, I think something like that, and you could probably find it on you. Honestly, it was one of my favorite shows. The Japanese do television like nobody else. - Yeah, they do those game shows. - The fast, the slippery stairs, all that kind of stuff. - Yeah, I love those videos. - Look up, Mr. Handshake Man. Honestly, it was my favorite show, I would never miss it, and I'll probably at the end. - From a show called Banzai. - That's it, yes, Banzai, yeah, you know it. Okay, good, good, good, good. - A British comedy gambling game show, which spoofs Japanese game shows. - Oh, is that what it's from with Mr. Handshake Man? That was a spoof? - It looks like it, yeah. - Banzai was on every week. - I can't believe the comedy central have it. - Mr. Shake Handshake Man. - Mr. Shake Handshake Man, okay, that's it. - It's the best. (laughing) - Honestly, it's one of my favorite things. - It's good. - Mr. Shake Handshake Man. - Mr. Shake Handshake. - No. (laughing) - Then me, David, me and in the airport, where he's like, the awkward pick is it all tough. - That's a tough one. - Yeah, it's a tough one. - Yeah. We've all been there. Okay, something you wanna dry your attention too. You wanna set this one up for Nick Alberga at a baseball diamond with Alexander Balecki, where I'm sure they spent the majority of the interview talking about me and our time with Balecki and the grocery store and kitchener, right? - Yeah, I don't think that that was brought up in it at all, but they did talk about the Oreo Cup. Balecki being drafted by the Maple Leafs. And I'm sure a lot of people in the Toronto area saw, I don't know how many people outside of the Toronto area saw, but the Leafs put out a video when their prospects came to town of Balecki pitching. - Yeah. - And he can actually pitch, like me going up and throwing a ball and being like, wow, I threw that one fast. Like, you know, he can actually pitch, and it kind of blew up a little bit. So, Alberga and Alexander Balecki went out and shot a video thrown around the ball. And I think, I think they might have taken some BP too, but you'll have to watch the video to find out. Here's a little clip of a Balecki and Alberga from the video, which is now available on the daily face of Toronto YouTube channel. - Let's skip forward. You win the OHL into the Memorial Cup. Did you have to like sort of pinch yourself? 'Cause I don't know about you. Like even growing up as a kid watching hockey, I would tune into the Memorial Cup out of all tournaments. Like you and your hockey's fantastic, but was there like a pinch me moment for you where you were like, I'm playing in the mem cup tonight? - Yeah, I think the first day, really, the first game where we were playing at the home town team and you're going out there and cameras everywhere, you know. Ice feels like, you know, pro, fans par-packed. It's hard to put into words, really, but it's just kind of when you step on that ice and you got to love that excitement, that kind of tension in the air. So it was really fun. Why is no burger using a first baseman's glove? - I have not. - You know what you put on first base? - Uh. (laughing) - I think it takes this. - You're worst at this. - You're serious. (laughing) - What are you doing next like an athletic guy? What's he doing playing first base? What's he got in first baseman's glove for? - I don't know. He, I've never played baseball in my life. - Are you serious? - Never, I always played lacrosse in the summer. I played soccer for a bit and then I switched over and played lacrosse so I never got to play baseball. - Can you throw a ball properly? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Can you throw a football? - I've got it, yes. I've got an arm. - All right. - I'm not just saying that to be like, "Oh look at me, like I can throw pretty well." Like I was played quarterback when we were kids. Like I can throw pretty well. - Yeah. - But like Nick's athletic guy, he's a gym dog. Every time I call him, he's like, he's like, a good guy. - He's always in the gym. - He's always in the gym, like he lives there. - Yeah, but he asked me one time if I could play and fill in for his mentally baseball team. (laughing) And I just was like, dude, I don't think so. I think I'm pretty good athlete. I think I'm pretty coordinated. I can't do this because it might be one of the most embarrassing experiences of my life. So first baseman or not, I couldn't. - Good for you for doing it. - That is changing now. There are more athletic players playing first baseman. - Yes. - And the biggest and the most profound shift is how important catchers become in the last however many years. Like that's where like your best player goes now. Before it's like center field and shortstop. Now it's like you gotta have a great catcher. - Yeah. - So you gotta have a great catcher. Okay, so work, we all see that interview with Nick and Balucky. - That will be on the daily face off Toronto YouTube channel. I also dropped that in the description of the show for today as well. - And they talk about me a bunch too. - In my afternoon with Balucky and Coach Malucky. - How much you set them up. You know, got them prepared for the draft and all the amazing advice and guidance you gave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all in there. - No, don't stop. Keep going. - I think this is good. - I haven't seen the final copy though, so I don't know if it got left on the editing room floor, but we'll find out. - What? - Yeah. - How dare you? - Okay, so check that one out. Any final thoughts from you before you pun? - No, I mean, the one thing I was thinking about with Line A and with Teresenko and stuff and we're talking about like these guys not being able to find jobs. Teresenko, I think, is a little bit different than the Line A situation. My thing with Line A is just can he still score? - You know what I mean? And I know the obvious answer to that is we've seen it here like for Burst, where you and I at some point this year we're talking about like, what could I be for? - Yeah. - And then, you know, like it just tiled off for them. And that's my thing where I feel like there might just be teams out there who are like, he could, but they might just look at other guys and say, well, if the guy scores 10 to 15, we could, we could sacrifice Line A 10 to 15 because that's I think where you're probably projecting him if it's like a okay. If it's really good, you're like, hey, maybe this guy goes off for 30 plus. But if not, what is he, what is he giving you? And you probably look internally and say, we could fill that somewhere else with somebody who's more efficient at other aspects of the game. That's kind of just my thought on it where it's like, I'm not as surprised that he can't find it. Teresenko, I do think, has a spot though. Like I think he could be somewhere, but no, I'm not. - Where? - I just think he could be effective with somebody. Like he was there playing with Minnesota last year. - I know. And it's not like he only scored like four goals last year. - I know, that's the one that I just, that one I scratched my head a little bit. I just, the Line A one, I understand a little bit more. - All right. On that we'll wrap great stuff, Zach. And it was a lot of fun if Ellen Falls thanks again to Aaron Ambrose and her family for letting us do the podcast in there 'cause that was a ton of fun and congrats to her. And again, thanks to the family and everybody for letting us barge our way in to do a podcast. Hey Aaron, how about me and Philly, just sort of pop by and kick everybody out of the house and make sure nobody uses Wi-Fi. So we can have a nice clean feed and you guys just go outside and drink and we'll just do a podcast here. So thanks to Aaron and to her family for Tuesday. That was a lot of fun at Finland Falls. Thanks to you for watching. Thanks to you for listening to your favorite podcast platform. We appreciate it. Thanks to everybody in the chat. As always, have yourselves a wonderful weekend. We'll be back soon here on the sheet. Dismissed and it's still no Keel McCarray. Went through the hour clean and nothing from a car. Watch. A minute after we go off the air. It'll happen at 201. It's the way. It always, that's how I came in. That's how I came in. Enjoy yourselves with Tuxen. (upbeat music) ♪ Of 16 hours last night ♪ ♪ Every day this week, every day this month ♪ ♪ I can't get out my head ♪ ♪ And I'm still ambitious day to day ♪ ♪ 'Cause you can call it all right ♪ ♪ I went to the dark man ♪ ♪ He dropped him a little medicine ♪ ♪ And I'm like, now I'm in that spine ♪ ♪ I'm not a guest, no, it's not this balloon ♪ ♪ It's me, myself, and how this gonna be fixing my mind ♪ ♪ 'Cause you wanna break it ♪ ♪ I turned out amazing day to day ♪ ♪ I feel like we're back again ♪ ♪ I turned out amazing day to day ♪ ♪ 'Cause you know that I'm just gonna try to do it again ♪ ♪ I've been on this weird road ♪