"What TPUSA Sources are Telling Me in Private..." | Baron Coleman

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a 5-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. We could help you out with that. What are the types of things they're saying to you? I've been given a lot of corrections where I've speculated on things and they say, here's what actually happened. And I've subtly made those corrections without burning a source. Got it. I've had. So meaning you had maybe sources that were around TPUSA or in it that maybe told you something that then wasn't true, verifiably, and you're like, okay. So I don't want to burn them, but. Well, or I had said. I had said something publicly on a podcast and somebody said, well, you didn't quite get it right. Here's what really happened. And then, you know, I can subtly make that change over the next few weeks without anyone really realizing that I've talked to someone. So that's happened a few times. And I've had good contact with a couple of particular people who have given me the temperature of what it's really like in there right now. What's it like in there right now? She's not super supported from some of the top people. Including people that maybe are putting on a face publicly? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm told. The information is only as good as people tell me. But not super supported, not really running things is kind of the. You know, you guys keep saying she's running it into the ground. She's not running much of anything. And that's, you know, that's the two big things. I mean, I've gotten specific piece of information I'm not going to talk about. But that's sort of the general consensus that I keep getting. Got it. When he was shot, obviously, we've seen all the video after that. We use the word shot very loosely there. Yeah, loosely there. But, you know, when he was hit and went down and everyone sees the blood come out. And then you see. The security team converge. They obviously ended up taking him, carrying his body back to the truck. There was no ambulance near there, I guess, at the time. So they take him to the truck. And what was it, five guys in the car with him? Yeah. Okay. What are some of the things there that you've taken issue with as far as what's been reported about what happened with his body just going from the point of attack to the car to the hospital? You know, I can't second guess the security team. And say what I would have done differently. Because I've never worked personal security. I've never been trained for it. I don't know all the things that go into it. You know, it's easier to hire someone to do it than try to figure it out yourself. It's. But when you look at it, just based on their statements, there are a lot of things I think probably went wrong from the beginning. For example, we talked about the roofs. I think three or four people from TPSA have been on record saying that they were. They were concerned about the roofs. Well, if you're concerned about the roofs, you have two options. Well, three, really. They took the third option and it didn't work out. The first two options, though, could have kept them alive. Number one is you either solve the roof problem by putting your own people on the roofs. Or you put somebody at a high position that has roof oversight. Like, I've done big events. I've been at big events. Bigger events than that, frankly. You know, tens or hundreds of thousands of people. And I know the security protocol that we were told. You know, hey, you'll have something in your ear. If you hear a certain word, that's stage clear. Everyone's gone. Show's over, folks. You know, sorry, you will not be getting a refund. Goodbye. Why wasn't that in place? Why didn't they have somebody at the highest point? If they're worried about the roofs, figure out which roof is the highest and stick somebody up there. And the second you see somebody in all black climbing on a roof, whatever the code word is, purple, purple, purple, purple, purple, purple, show's over, folks. Charlie's gone. Sorry to end it eight minutes into the program. But, you know, he's in Salt Lake City before anyone knows what happened. You know, if you're not going to do that, then you have to conduct the entire thing from a different security posture, in my opinion. You have to, you have to, if you're not going to have somebody at high point watching the roofs, or you're not going to have somebody stationed on the roofs, you have to have security. Run in mind with the roofs are a primary concern. So maybe you're watching roofs from the ground. Maybe you have somebody stationed in a different place. Maybe you move the tent. Maybe you delay the event an hour to reconvene from a slightly different angle or a slightly different location. I don't know. But I know the third option is the one they chose. And it was, hey, Charlie, we don't like the looks of these roofs. These roofs look dangerous. You look like you're at risk. Here, sit here, do your show here. We'll make sure nobody's overlooking the roofs. We'll make sure nobody's on the roof. Just have a seat here, sir. You'll be fine. That's not it. I mean, I've said this many times on my show, if I'm hiring security people, I'd rather have somebody smart than beefy. You know, the fact that you can roll around and shoot a gun while you're rolling is not as impressive to me as watching around as I'm walking down the street. Not as impressive as having situational awareness and enough of an IQ that you can detect, hey, something's not right. I don't feel good. Let's go a different direction. Let's get out of here. So his IQ is pretty good, man. He's a very smart guy. Struck me that way. We IQ people. We IQ test people. No, but I mean, that's more of a concern to me. You know, because once the shooting starts, you've lost. That's right. You know, the game's over. I tell people this with a lawyer all the time. Don't get sued. Once you get sued, you've already lost. I don't care if you win, you've lost. It's gonna cost you a lot of money. It's very inconvenient. Lawyers win. Yeah. With free speech and all that stuff, you're gonna lose. You're gonna lose. You're gonna lose. You're gonna lose. Lawyers win. Yeah. With free speech and journalism, there are some protections because you can always, you know, like anti-slap statutes, for example, I'm sure you're familiar with what you do. But I think from a pre-show posture, it seems to me evident on its face that there's a failure. But that's not me coming and saying, "Brian Harpole's group failed Charlie and got him killed." That's not the point. That's not the point. My point is, as we're second guessing and looking, the next time somebody does an event and someone doesn't feel comfortable with the roofs, let's evaluate the roofs. Let's think about it and let's evaluate whether we should do the show at all or should we put people in different places. The excuse they keep giving that, "Oh, we only have permission to be in this area right here." Well, Tyler Robinson didn't have permission to get on the Loci Center roof either, but he did. That's their story. So if he doesn't have permission to get up there, yet somehow manages to, you got 12 or 13 people with you and you can't put one person on the highest point in the facility? That's overlooking the tent? The Loci Center would have been a pretty good place. You'd have had operational oversight over the entire field. Well, that sounds like a great place to be. Right. When did this particular security team though, because again, this was a new tour he was going on. This was the first one. They put this team together shortly before that, right? Those guys hadn't all worked together for Charlie Kirk prior to this point or am I misremembering? I think the base of the team had worked for Charlie Kirk for a while. Right, but not every single guy on the team together working for him. I don't know whether we can say they've never worked for him, but I know that they hadn't spent years working with him. I think we can safely say that. Got it. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. I really appreciate that. Also the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. All right, so you talked about the 30 aught six and some of the issues with, you know, wondering how the hell that bullet could have been stopped and all that. And you mentioned, what was the gentleman's name again, who, who initially had the shot from another? Chris Martinson. Chris Martinson. So you mentioned his theory. What do you like bad visual to give, but come to your head, what do you think actually killed him? I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. Uh, I don't think it was a gunshot. Um, I, I, I don't, I don't necessarily think it was a gunshot. Um, I, I, I, I don't, I don't necessarily think it was a gunshot. I don't necessarily think it was a single modality. I think it could have been multiple things taking place at once. What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, if you've made an operational decision to kill Charlie Kirk, are you going to have the entire operation rest on a single point of failure? In other words, are we going to put a sniper on the roof and hope he kills him? You know, people get shot point blank in the head and live. If the goal is to kill him, you want him dead. Like, you do not want him walking out of there. And so maybe you have built-in redundancy, you know, when you get on an airplane. There's no critical function that rests on a single point of failure. There's backup, usually triplicate backup. That's why planes don't fall out of the sky very often. Cars are different. Cars have single points of failure, but you just pull over to the side of the road. You can't pull the plane over to the side of the road. It's going to fall out of the sky from 35,000 feet. So most critical functions are redundant. And I think in this situation, you probably have redundancy. And so it's undeniable to me that something moved. Something caused his shirt to move in a very unnatural way that's inconsistent with a bullet. The road microphone, actually travel with him, I have him with me. The road microphone goes from his right collar all the way towards the middle of his neck. Those have mass. They're not easy to move. His necklace, which is hanging down by- Wait, they have what? I'm sorry. They have mass. I mean, they're not styrofoam. Like MASS? Yeah, mass. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, they have substance. They're not the heaviest things in the world, but they're not the lightest things in the world. To get one to move at that pace in two frames of a camera, you know, you're talking a 30th of a second, a 15th of a second? To move from your right collarbone to the middle of your neck in a 15th of a second or 30th of a second? That's very, very fast. Something caused that. Did it explode? Did something eject out of it? I don't know. Was it damaged? Did it remain whole? I don't know. It would be easy to prove it remained whole. Just, you know, those record on a 32-bit waveform, just release it, you know? Mm-hmm. Or show us that it kept recording. I think you could fake it, but at least you could try to show that it didn't explode. So his microphone moved. His necklace, the charm was hanging down in the pictures down below his sternum, like right below his xiphoid process right there. It shot up towards his neck at basically the speed of light. I mean, it was so fast. What caused that? That's not a gunshot wound to the neck. That necklaces don't jump. They don't jump that high when you're struck in the neck. There are some angles that look like the necklace on the back of his neck, the chain on the back of his neck goes straight back off his neck, or at least his shirt goes straight back off of his neck, and you can still see the neck, and I don't see a hole. So if the gunshot wound to the neck is supposedly causing all this stuff, why is this happening before a hole appears in his neck? Now, it's possible the hole was super small, but it didn't look super small with that much blood coming out of it. So there's. There's just a lot of problems with the gunshot narrative that I default to the fact that there's something that was acting on his body. There was some force that was acting on his body. Whether that force came from the microphone, from the necklace, whether it was some high-tech force that we don't even know exists, you know, some sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, like an EMP or something that blasted at him all at once. I really don't know the answer to that. Is there a way that. whether it's in, like, Chris Martenson's lane of a second. an actual second shooter down there, different gun, is there a way that if someone's shooting from much closer than 138 yards, as it was alleged where Tyler Robinson shot, that, you know, the kinetic energy or types of things that could happen could explain the movement of the mic, of the shirt, of the. of the chain in the back and all that in a more satisfying way than what they say happened from 138 yards away? I think the closer you are, the more force a 30-caliber round arrives with, the more likely it is to blow out the back of his neck. So, I'm not entirely satisfied with that, but I think, you know. I don't think he was shot with a bullet. If he was, it was a redundancy, because the injuries are, in my opinion, and the people I've talked to, I've talked to several medical professionals last couple of days since the prosecution filed their motion that included a few lines from the medical exam. - Oh, they filed it? - Yeah. I mean, there's injuries from the top of his heart to the top of his head. Um, it's. it's really difficult for me to accept that all of that took place from a single gunshot wound. So, injuries meaning, like, internal bleeding, bruises every day, - like a litany of things. - Hemorrhaging, um. I'm not a doctor, and they were big words, and I had to look up every word just to understand what they were saying. But, I mean, even, like, the parietal lobe of his brain above it was damaged. I mean, you're talking, like, two feet worth of injuries. Um, it's. it's something that's just, to me, unprecedented. Like, I looked and looked for examples of those types of injuries from gunshot wounds. You can't find the collection of them in any single gunshot wound to the neck. That I could find. I did not look at every medical exam ever conducted in history, but. Now, it'd be interesting. It's way above my pay grade. - Yeah, way above mine as well. - That's interesting that it's that wide. It's a tremendous amount of damage. The most telling thing that they filed in their motion was that his C2 to C6 was obliterated. Is that what they wrote? Yeah, the left side, so the side where the wound was, from C2, which is way up here, to C6, which is down here, the left side of all those vertebrae were completely obliterated, and his spinal cord was traumatically absent in that range, meaning there was no connection from his brain to his body at all. So even beyond death, when he was hit, he was a quadriplegic. Am I hearing that right, or did I totally fuck that up? Well, yes, according to the medical exam. - Okay. - But then now, go back and watch the video. And I can't play the video on YouTube, neither can you, because YouTube doesn't like that video. But if you go back and watch the video, after this all happens, after his C2 to C6 spinal cord is completely gone, traumatically absent, completely transected from that. - He fences. - Do what? - He fences, right? - Yeah. He clenches both fists? He flexes his elbows? His knees stay out? He stays erect? His head stays up? And there's no way-- again, way above my pay grade-- there's no medical explanation for that being physically possible? No, I talked to a neurosurgeon yesterday, after that came out, or two days ago, whenever it was. I talked to a professor of-- that-- I can't remember what his title was, but it was long. And I had them go over this with me line by line, and both of them agreed that they agreed, and the professor started giving me citations to PubMed papers that demonstrate that it's impossible, that once you lose-- that once it transects, you have about 1/10th of a second before everything goes flaccid. And the way he described it was, he said, "I'm not saying flaccid like he would've dropped the microphone. I'm saying he would've lost all muscle tone from the neck down. Like, every muscle would've turned into just goo. It would've just-- his knees would've collapsed. He would've fallen immediately off the chair. His head would've immediately fallen over. He would've-- he wouldn't have held on to the microphone and then slowly let it go, like we watched the video together. Yeah. He wouldn't have slowly let go of the microphone. Everything would've collapsed. Gravity would've taken over to his body instantly. Like, he said, like, 1/10 to 1/10 1/2 of a second is all you have left. Once those electrical charges are gone, the body's done. It's no longer receiving any input whatsoever from the brain. So I look at that, and I say, "Okay, well, something obviously was still acting on his body." I'd speculated in October because of-- because of a medical professional who contacted me. And he said at the time that it looked more like electrocution than a gunshot to him because-- Electrocution? Yeah. He said because of the flexion. And this was after the Andrew Colvette tweet is what prompted him to reach out because he said, "Hey, if he had that much damage to his vertebrae, his spinal cord likely was transected, and he wouldn't have been holding onto anything." Something had to be powering his nervous system that's not his brain. And the only thing he was holding onto that had power was the microphone. He said, "Have you looked into the fact that the microphone may have lit him up?" And so I started looking up video of singers who had touched those same SM58 Shure microphones. And they did a lot of the same stuff, you know, and fall back to the stage. So I don't know. I really don't know what it was. Like, I'm confident, 99.9% confident it was not a 30-06 to the neck. That would not produce, in my opinion, and I'm not a doctor, but I have talked to them, and they're confident as well, it wouldn't produce those damages. Like, something else was going on. It's possible he was struck with something in the neck other than a 30-06. It's possible he was electrocuted. It's possible something happened to the Rode microphone. It's possible something else was strapped to his body that we don't even know was strapped to his body and he was doing something new and streaming back to the ops in Arizona. But to me, the 30-06 narrative died with that filing. Keep in mind, when a medical examiner does the exam, they're not watching the video. They're just describing what they see. You know, and they might very well have seen that damage. But they didn't know he was still flexing and had this apparent decorticate posture after his C2 to C6 was traumatically absent. So, you know, to answer the question, "How did he die?" I don't know. Would you make of the bullet. Do we have a picture of that, Dee, of the bullet they released at the preliminary hearing where they put out. It was like a measuring stick. Because, again, I do live in a country where they released. They talked about a magic bullet, so. Yeah. My antenna does go up a little bit. This is not only a magic bullet, it's a missing bullet. The lady who tested it for the ATF, the lady who testified about the testing for the ATF, read from a report where seven fragments were removed from Charlie's body. Seven fragments. Yeah. but she only received four in an envelope in a manila envelope she received four of the seven i would think in a murder investigation you would want if you pull something out of his body that would go along with the rest of the evidence where are the other three pieces are these the same four pieces that were pulled out of his body i don't know it's possible the autopsy photos will will show that yes in fact those were exactly what was pulled out of his body but we also don't know the chain of custody of his body um he wasn't taken by ambulance he was surrounded by security people who didn't guard the roof um so that's the casing yeah the one that was at sorry i forgot to say the one that actually showed like the aftermath of it they released a trial you know when we did solo number 23 after jsm i think i put that link in that google drive folder that would have been like three weeks ago so it should be there but it shows it next to like an actual measurement so you can see like how the bullet allegedly changed and all that but like so do you think you would you would use this word a few minutes ago i want to make sure i understood this you said there could have been something that was a redundancy yeah meaning like maybe a bullet was fired after he was already hit with something else well so this would be an example of redundancy i'm not saying this is it but let's throw everything in together um you've got let's say he was the mic electrocuted him he was shot in the neck the road microphone exploded they broke his neck under the table they you know broke his neck under what i'm saying is you every theory out there is it could be pulled into this redundancy you know um in other words he's walking in and he's not walking out right we'll kill you know we'll rasputin this guy all at once if we have to um but once we did once we give the signal once we give the go-ahead which may or may not have been you know steel third uh you know i'm still amused by dan flood stepping forward and touching his right arm and everyone's like oh it's something he did all the time i'm like okay show me him doing that all the time that was such a weird bizarre uh and and probably the if it was a total coincidence it was the worst timing to step forward about 400 milliseconds before uh your guys killed that is one thing about this it's like if for some reason like the fed narrative were mostly right or whatever the number of things that were the worst possible coincidental timing forget chaos i know things are chaotic but like you couldn't have drawn it up any better yeah i mean you don't have an ambulance your security guy steps forward and does this you're you're uh you're you're resident theologian who just decided to show up is grabbing his hat you know you've got like the the number of terrible coincidences that would take place if this was just tyler robinson on the roof it would it would be an interesting uh discussion yeah now what so deep this has the measurement on it from the atf or whatever this is what they allegedly released this is where so we're going to be doing a podcast you and me later with joseph as well which would be cool to have you to be able to go back and forth on stuff like this so we should probably kind of save this for that because i'm not the guy but he still shouldn't be right there you come here you stand right here do not move from this spot yeah don't walk around don't pour water don't pour water on the surface please the crime scene i beg you well i'll proffer that the guy walking around talking to those two cops grab the chair set it up under the camera took the cameras down move them set them on the table uh remove some object from it we believe it's the sd card that's his story remove something from the camera and then walks off is that does that fall below the standard and allow that to happen can i play that on a loop yeah that's i just wanted that on the record yeah that's there was something he was explaining with the measurement here and how that would it turned out that way but what you're seeing is essentially from what my eye test can see that's like a mushroomed kind of bullet like it hit a wall and stopped well that's just the jacket that's not the bullet so that right down there that is yeah that's the front and back of the bullet that's the front and back of the bullet that's the front and back of the same fragment that's a fragment of the jacket so the little pieces at the top those are little pieces of bullet up up there where it says 8a 6b well it's b through e or a little piece okay so that would be among the seven fragments that she's talking about yes the atf wouldn't okay all right that makes sense so what you're seeing at the bottom is the front and back of the same piece okay um and she described what she described was the front and back of the same piece and she described what what was interesting to me about that was she described the measurement not not with precision but with a range she said the range was 0.286 or 287 something like that to 0.301 inches a 30 caliber round is called 30 caliber because it's in theory 0.30 inches so but a 30 out 6 is actually 0.308 inches um the bore diameter is 0.30 but the grooves inside the bore are 0.308 and so if you take a 308 measured round and you slip it through a bore that's 0.30 but the ridges are 0.308 you should in my opinion and from what i've been able to research have a jacket fragment that measures closer to 0.308 on the where the ridges are um there's some compression as it goes through the bore but i'm not sure you'd lose all of it but that's obviously for people smarter than me so i'm not sure you'd lose all of it but that's obviously for people smarter than me so i'm not sure you'd lose all of it but that's obviously for people smarter than i am what were the things in the five-day preliminary hearing that stood out the most to you that you felt were just didn't help matters uh well the the biggest inconsistency of the entire five days in my opinion they had video footage they showed that they alleged was tyler robinson coming back to try to retrieve the gun at 12 47 a.m so 12 hours later yeah roughly 12 hours later and they show a car that looks a lot like a dodge challenger and it's rolling up and this is recovered from doorbell cam footage from across the street they they show a little clip of it it's very muddy it's very blurry you can't see what's going on but you can see a door open you can see headlights and taillights but they they clipped it i mean they kept they just kept showing you a little piece of it little piece of it little piece of it and then the prosecution you know finishes their examination and then on cross the defense is like hey i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this um the lady who took that she saw a bald man driving the car with three passengers right and the guy was like i don't know i don't know uh and she's like well that's the statement she gave right he's like well yeah she did do a statement where she said she thought she saw a bald man driving with three passengers sorry we forgot that one yeah okay that would have been good information on direct yeah that would be really good information on direct you know when you're trying a case you're not only trying your strengths you're also looking at your weaknesses um now granted this isn't a trial you don't have a trial effect there i mean judge kind of sits as a trial effect as a magistrate but but you you certainly are trying because of how public this is trying to capture the public's trust to me the prosecution has to have an explanation for that like why did she think that that might be a good time if you're going to introduce that footage that might be a good time to go ahead and bring her in and let her explain why she thinks she saw that maybe she has glaucoma maybe she hallucinates maybe she takes you know has a history of mental illness maybe she wasn't wearing her glasses that night but why you know if you have a statement from somebody that says oh you're saying that tyler robinson's car that was actually driven by a bald man and he had three passengers in the car that was a huge problem in my opinion because it showed to me it showed the prosecution was dishonest they knew that existed and they did their direct examination and never mentioned it and i guess they thought the defense either wasn't going to see it or wasn't going to bring it up i don't know why they would think that um but that that to me is is evidence big evidence that the prosecution's hiding the ball on this on this case it's not a strange timeline thing there's a lot of strange timeline things in this case especially as it relates to tyler robinson like what the fact that he so you and i talked about this but i'm trying to think like what you said was off record with this i don't want to say anything wrong well don't risk it all right or clip it out all right i have a thought you and i'll talk about that after maybe i'll bring that up tomorrow so let me let me punt on that for a second but like you have the video of him that's more hd walking around in hallways around the building this wasn't a school he went to or anything so it's like that's interesting that he was there so we can at least place him like at the place and then the video of him that we referenced earlier that jack pozobiec claimed to see things that clearly he didn't see you know up on the rooftop is from far away and this is someone who at the time when you review that video because now there's i think it's the same one but it's more it's better rendered the one that candace put out you can see it closer and you can see a figure who does not appear to have a leap a a limp sorry a figure who is moving very quickly as a result does not appear to be physically hiding a gun in his pants as we had seen in some of the other videos as well and who then gets down to a position but we can't see him take out a gun or pull a trigger or anything like that he does a military crawl on the way there which would suggest he's extremely highly trained like he was in the which this kid was not and then is able to get away quickly and run again without a limp off the building presumably with the gun and to me this was like a bit of a shocking video to see because to me it's like first of all question and i'd like to pose this to you do you think that's tyler robinson no okay let's start there so you don't think that's tyler robinson on the roof but you did but the video of him walking through the hallways that's him so where do you think that's him in the hallways either you don't think that's him in the hallways no i i don't think you can tell and and in fact lance twiggs when he was doing his 1102 statement via zoom for some reason and not in the courtroom or not with a court reporter is that that's strange to do it that way yes preliminary hearing yes okay yeah um i i think so i mean i think it's highly unusual that you would introduce a zoom call as evidence in a in a preliminary hearing yeah it's very unusual to me um but they show those six pictures that they have of the 1102 statement and they're not in the courtroom and they're not in the court but they show those six pictures that they have of the 1102 statement and they're not in the court alleged tyler robinson on campus and they said you know can you identify the person in there he's like well not a hundred percent not based on those pictures and he's looking at all six of them all six pictures and his face is visible and everything else and he says well yeah i mean you know based on the clothes he he you know he's wearing jeans uh you know he's got those shoes uh he likes to wear hats he's wearing a hat here i've never seen him in that hat but he's wearing a hat yeah and the sunglasses yeah and then so you can in my opinion you know he's wearing a hat it's almost as if somebody's off screen going dude that's him you have to say it's him because he's like oh yeah and in those last two definitively i can say that's him but yeah exactly but he had already said that he couldn't identify him and he was already looking at those two pictures so what changed in that 30 seconds of hemming and hawing um it didn't it didn't leave a lot of confidence that that's tyler robinson it didn't leave a lot of confidence that lance twiggs thought it was tyler robinson do you think tyler robinson was on campus that day i think he was an orum uh i don't know whether he was on campus i've not seen uh evidence that's convincing that he was on campus do you have and this may be like way outside the scope i'm just asking but do you know a reason why he would have been in a worm no i mean i i operate under the assumption that he was there to engage in some sort of criminal conspiracy whether that was to kill charlie kirk or cause some sort of mischief at an event or what but but i do think he was probably there as some sort of a group that he believed was going to pull off some sort of criminal activity uh that would put him in a worm whether or not his role was to ever be on campus i don't know so i'm playing out a pure spec total hypothetical here but in that type of scenario could it be something where he and a group of people who may disagree with charlie kirk's beliefs were colluding to disrupt an event like that and perhaps because they're talking about that on digital spaces that could be picked up by other people who view that as a very advantageous cover to be able to do something a little a lot worse than that do you think something like that is a plausible scenario uh plausible sure um you're you're given a lot of credit to these discord groups that they're not infiltrated with with bad actors on purpose oh sure sure sure sure sure that's another yeah absolutely and that they're not manipulating these groups that's right that they're not the ones making these comments and they're not the ones opening these x accounts saying oh something bad's gonna happen right um but yeah i mean it you know taking it in a very favorable light sure something like that could happen okay do you think based on the video again this was what candace put out the other day but based on that video do you think that the person there if it wasn't tyler robinson is someone who whether it was a gun that we can't see very well that might be a different kind of gun or with some sort of trigger to do something else is the person who actually pulled off killing charlie kirk no i mean i i think the person on the roof was one of two things either it was another step of redundancy uh meaning the person did have a gun but it wasn't a 30 out six because i don't see a 30 out six up there but has some sort of weapon up there that could that could kill charlie kirk if needed and let's just say that's the way it is i think that's the way it is let's say let's just assume the signal was dan flood stepping forward touching his arm i'm not dan don't sue me i'm not saying that's a signal i'm just saying let's let's just assume pure speculation um but let's say that is a signal and he sees the signal and then a second goes by and nothing's happened yet now you shoot you know in other words you're the backup to the backup to the backup um or that guy was just a decoy they needed to see somebody on that roof because that was going to be the story and they needed to see somebody on that roof because that was going to be and we had to capture him on video so you got to get up there you got to lay down in position you got to run off don't worry our camera's way back there no one's going to see what you're doing they're not going to see your face just jump up um you know i think the person on the roof was likely one of those two roles and not actually the one who did anything on that day now i started to make that timeline point a couple minutes ago but didn't want to go on that other thing we'll talk about after so i can make sure i know what i say but wasn't there also like with these discord that did look some of them highly suspect from the get-go to me but wasn't there something where some of them were allegedly sent after he allegedly had been arrested according to what the story is so that well yeah so there's there's a lot of debate on that um i was looking at the filings and i noticed in the defense's filing that they made along the way one of their filings they referenced a time stamp when tyler invoked his fifth amendment right to silence but they just said 6 25 p.m and so i thought what was 6 25 p.m where was that so i was looking for context clues in that statement and he made a comment about uh the lawyer's office that i want is closed for the night he said i'm looking for a lawyer here his name is xyz whatever his name was um and he's he's it looks to me like he's very clearly invoking his right to remain silent for the first time if you assume that 6 25 is accurate and i don't know why the defense would put the wrong time in there so i assume it's accurate you look and you say well there's really only two options when that conversation could have taken place it could have taken place on september 11th which is a thursday which is the day he turned himself in or it could have taken place on september 12th which is a friday which is the day after he turned himself in and even on the their the official narrative timeline that 6 25 p.m would be like 21 hours after he turned himself in and so knowing those two facts it has to be one of those times 6 25 on thursday or 6 25 on friday go back and look at the context again i'm looking for a lawyer here uh named so and so well here would have been washington county that's where he turned himself in because the lawyer he named was practicing in washington county he wasn't practicing in utah county he wasn't from utah county that's four hours away why would he say i'm looking for a lawyer here then he says my parents are trying to get in touch with him his office is closed for the night close for the night not the weekend if it's 6 30 on friday do you say the office is closed for the night not the weekend if it's 6 30 on friday do you say the office is closed for the night what lawyer opens up on saturday morning the fact that he's saying my parents are trying to get in touch with him means that he had just spoken with his parents and knew they were trying to get in touch with him and that his office was closed for the night that's more consistent with a thursday night where he had just spoken to his parents minutes before than it is friday night where he hadn't spoken to his parents in 21 hours and has no idea what his parents have been doing for 21 hours maybe they did get in touch with a lawyer maybe they've already gotten him maybe maybe his office isn't still closed for the night we have no idea what's going on so i looked at all those context clues and i raised the possibility that that conversation actually took place on thursday not friday well if it took place on thursday at 6 25 it took place an hour and a half before the discord messages went out at 7 57 and so that led me to believe it's possible those discord messages were fake they weren't from him at all and they're inconsistent with taking your right to remain silent you're going to invoke the right to remain silent to the sheriff but you're going to confess to anybody with a link to a discord chat forever it's going to be there forever yeah it's very anyone who ever gets that url can log in and see your confession but you don't want to confess but you want to invoke your right to remain silent and then go back to his text messages to lance twigs i intended to take this to my grave okay well you're taking it to your grave you're talking to your alleged boyfriend about it and then you go and confess to a discord chat that you don't you don't even met all these people in there you don't know who all these people are um yeah it's it's totally inconsistent so i looked at all that and i concluded that it very likely was a thursday afternoon invocation of his fifth amendment rights not a friday afternoon invocation and if that's the case um do we have any other context clues well we didn't at the time but a few weeks later a couple months later maybe maybe a month or two later the defense file this prosecution rather files uh an exhibit list and on the exhibit list they list out by bait stamp number the exhibits they tend to offer one of those is tyler robinson in the washington county sheriff's office on september 11th that's the same bait stamp number that was cited in that original 6 25 p.m time stamp so i look at that and say no brainer obviously that was september 11th at 6 25 p.m this is a huge problem third time third context clue came during the preliminary hearing they wanted to show that his clothing when he turned himself in was consistent with what he was wearing on that day so they wanted to show him at the washington county sheriff's office in the maroon t-shirt when they do they zoom it in so you don't get the time stamp on that security footage that was a big indication to me that that very well could have been that the fourth context clue is uh one of these press outfits in utah i don't know i don't want to cite the one because i don't want to cite the wrong one but one of the press outfits in utah wanted to get a copy of the footage of him turning himself in they wouldn't release it to him do you think they'll release that at trial i honestly don't know because turning yourself in is not part of the crime so they don't have to you could convict him without turning that in it's possible we'll never see that and then they lied to the press and said that they had deleted it because it it extended beyond the retention the prosecution said that the washington county sheriff's office said that and then the washington county sheriff miraculously resigns in march of this year under a cloud of suspected bad behavior and so you put i put all that together five six pieces of context clues some of which are really solid in my opinion like the base stamps number and i and i think some of those discord messages may have come after he turned himself in which raises suspicion on every that's right statement that he made about he did it have you spoken and if you can't talk about this no problem but have you spoken with any sources in or around or in some way connected to the knowledge of like the thinking of his family and where they stand on whether or not at this point whether or not they believe he actually did it yes uh they don't believe he did it would so and is it fair to assume you're referring to like his mother and father don't believe that yeah um there's a there's a guy on x um i know him i believe him um i have personal knowledge that he has spoken to the grandmother okay and that's well known tyler grandfather's gun right that was that was the alleged thing okay yeah and he has spoken to the grandmother and i've seen text messages between the you know family they don't believe he did it um they deny that he confessed to them they deny that um that he turned himself in because he was guilty um they don't think he did it now did they think he did it at the time no they've never thought he did it they never thought and what's miraculous is that we get to the preliminary hearing we've been told for 10 months by tpsa people by their spokespeople by their hangers-on their paid contributors we've been told for 10 months that he confessed to his parents and that's a key component of this that's why we know he did it he confessed to his parents he turned himself in he confessed to his parents he turned himself in we heard this for 10 solid months we get to the preliminary hearing they're not even on the witness list like they you talk about bulletproof probable cause if your mom gets on the stand and says yeah he told me he did it yeah you're fucked it's over we don't need to trial i mean at that point i'm going well maybe i'm wrong this whole time could part of it i gotta ask it this way as the devil's advocate could part of it be like there's no way my baby did that and like it's just setting in after enough time to think about it being like you know what i just don't believe it if his parents told law enforcement that he did it that would be documented if you put him on the stand and they deny that he said it you impeach him with the documentation um he didn't tell him i'm telling you that is so so much evidence that they've been lying to us this whole year otherwise we would have heard from what do you make of the and it'll be interesting to talk about this with with you and joseph to go back and forth on it because he's more familiar with the actual process and what it could or should have been but what do you make of the handling of charlie's body from from what we know from when he was declared dead at the hospital to when there's video taken that we can determine around the time it was taken of erica allegedly over his casket where he has an embalmed body being prepared to be flown back to arizona which was less than 24 hours later or around 24 hours later um it's too fast uh way too fast we also have a filing from the defense where they talk about the autopsy photos and the autopsy photos they want all of them and they said they were all dated september 10th he died on september 10th right he allegedly didn't even get to the medical examiner's office until close to nine o'clock that night the autopsy was done by midnight i mean i i'm i'm looking forward to the conversation with joseph because i'm curious if that if that sounds unusually fast um i would think they would be autopsying a warm body at that point when did they cool him down um the standard i think and he'll know more than i do but from what i can tell from the people i've talked to from the research i've done it looks like most of the time an autopsy is done with a body that's been cooled down to below 40 degrees when did they cool him down that's a six to eight hour process um and and why such a hurry why why do it in the middle of the night why not if you're going to do an autopsy and it's only going to take a couple of hours come back at eight o'clock in the morning when everyone's fresh had a night's sleep gotten a good breakfast drank a cup of coffee all right let's roll him in here he's been cooled down let's see what's going on in here you know nothing's changing between you know he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down he's been cooled down nine p.m and eight a.m why why this massive hurry um so i i i'm very much looking forward to that conversation uh i have no interest in trying to change his mind on anything but i have a lot of questions that i think he as an expert would be able to answer i think it's going to be amazing because like the combination of you looking at it from an investigative litigation standpoint and looking at it strictly from a forensic standpoint yeah will be great because that was the other thing that when i had him in here i didn't do a good enough job of making it clear with him we're just looking at like the forensics of it all the other stuff around it and the things leading up to it that's not his lane but you know we'll talk about tomorrow because you're going to be here as well and it'll be interesting to see if those worlds kind of collide but it was i remember and i called him when like a few days later when i was thinking about it because i put together the timeline in my head once you put out that post of like when that must have been based on when that flight was at 5 p.m or whatever yeah to go to arizona the next day and i was like oh my god i'm going to be here tomorrow and i'm going to be here tomorrow like that just seems like you know this is very high profile killing i would think you're doing a little extra i know everybody is supposed to be treated the same but i'm thinking you know maybe you do a little more crossing the t's and dot in the i's with this one with a public execution like that that's just me but i don't know so it'll be interesting to to see what he thinks there but also i referenced it a little bit ago and forgot to ask you about it obviously when a scene like this happens it's chaos people react in weird ways in certain ways that includes but again public event we have different videos of the immediate aftermath you see weird things like someone taking down the camera taking out some cards and then you know that whole thing and whatever was there anything there besides the security team that we kind of talked about that stood out where you're like that that doesn't make sense at all i don't know why someone would do that in that scenario yeah i mentioned dan flood stepping forward and touching his arm um i'll say it till i'm blue in the face that was the weirdest thing i've ever seen uh from an alleged security person um and if you take it if you take that video footage and you line it up with what's going on on the roof uh which has been done it's even weirder uh because you see lots of different things taking place uh no longer is it just dan flood stepping forward now you have brian harpo taking a step back right um he had been standing roughly in the same position the whole time he's now um there's a woman who comes from screen right as the guy starts to get into place and she hands him some some mints he said and he takes the mints he doesn't eat him mints he just sticks in his pocket well why is she passing out mints if you know so it seems like was she sitting back there waiting for i don't know and i'm not accusing anyone but was you know was she sitting back there waiting for a guy to you know start running into position uh why why was the sound bad all of a sudden when hunter kozak got up to start asking questions the sound seemed fine while the first guy was asking questions the guy that wants to get up and ask about transgender violence uh starts asking questions and we get all this feedback in the system uh why did philip goldsberry jr turn his head away from charlie kirk before the shooting like i mean or before the bang like half a second before um what you know once brian harpo steps behind frank turek uh frank turek then turns towards charlie kirk and grabs his hat well when he grabs his hat dan flood looks at him and then looks to some reason and we don't know who he's looking at and then he steps forward and touches his arm and then you hear the crack like all that may have been innocent all may have been innocent weird though but when you look at it and you put it in that video footage of the guy running on the roof and you're watching it you're watching it all take place it almost looks like a choreographed dance now again may turn out tyler robinson did it with a 30 out six from the low c center roof and that was just the most unfortunate series of events that's ever happened but it looks like a series even the guy asking the question turns and does something that that starts the casket i mean the whole thing is weird and you know it might only be weird because something happened it might be you know maybe maybe lots of people asking questions turn their head and and look at somebody and play with their glasses maybe lots of people grab their hat maybe lots of people get mints and reposition themselves maybe lots of people step forward and do this right before uh you know during a speaker but when you watch it in context knowing that there was a loud bang that Charlie, now it starts to look like this multi-faceted, multi-step checkoff. Like, yes, I'm clear. Yes, I'm clear. Yes, I'm clear. Yes, I'm clear. Yes, I'm clear. Bang. Um, and so I don't know. Um, you ask what's weird in that moment. That is, that is weird. Um, the cameraman behind Charlie immediately after he goes down turning and not running for his life, but turning to film where they're going to pull Charlie out. That's weird. Um, that was strange. Um, the fact again, that they just yanked Charlie off the ground. He's got a neck wound, obviously an injury to his neck. There's no head and neck attention whatsoever. And they just drag him off with his neck, literally dangling. Um, there was the kid on the phone too. Was that Mikey McCoy? Yeah. He did. He denies being on the phone. Uh, he says he was plugging his ears, but there's also footage of him way off in the back and he's still doing this, you know, is he still plugging his ears or is he have a phone in one hand and he's plugging the other ear so he can hear better. Um, you know, Frank Turk saying he was on FaceTime with his son. His son's in his thirties. Why is he on FaceTime in the middle of a Wednesday watching Charlie Kirk, uh, take questions on transgender violence. What a weird thing to watch in the middle of the day. Um, and the video footage behind him doesn't look like he's on FaceTime. It looks like his screen's black. So what is he watching? Um, and, and lest you say, maybe you can't see it from video. He is on FaceTime earlier and you can see the FaceTime screen. So why can't we see the FaceTime screen now that you claim you're on FaceTime? Just way too many weird things that popped up every step of the way. And, um, you know, the conclusion I draw is it's weird for a reason. Yeah. Have you had a chance to speak to anybody, whether it's in the family, around the family, friends, people that would have been, had access to his body or whatever over those next 24 hours? Have you had a chance to speak to any of them about observations they had? Charlie's body? Of his body, of the people around him, when the family came in, what reactions there? I don't, I don't like, I don't want to talk about that. Okay. So maybe, but you don't want to talk about that. Okay. No problem. And then the, the whole paving over the entire thing a couple of days later, you know, again, not a cop, optics. That's where we get the term cover up from. Right. You cover up. You literally covered it up. You covered up the crime scene. Like, is there any, any explanation for that? That is even reasonably decent. I thought, I thought there might be. And then Tom Fitton from judicial watch did a, uh, public records request and got a bunch of text messages about the crime scene that took place the next morning. Okay. And the next morning they were already talking about digging it up, like inside of 24 hours. It seemed like I may be wrong on the exact timing, but it was the next day. Uh, they're already talking about digging it up. The, they didn't just dig it up. I mean, they dug up like 10 inches of soil and got rid of it. Is there a reason to do, and they did that before having a paving contractor. So who could come in and put down the pavers, but is there a reason to do that? I don't know, man. I I've never run a university where someone's been shot and killed on campus. Um, it's, you know, he bled a lot. Mm-hmm. It's possible. They thought it's a biologic hazard. Oh, come on. You can, you can block that off. You could block it off. And, and they did block it off. It was blocked off for a long time. Um, you know, and you, it rains and you have sprinklers and you could, you have hoses and. Yeah. There are, you know, you don't pave over every crime scene. Yeah. So lots of crime scenes take place in America every day. Maybe they, maybe they were worried that he had HIV. Yeah, it could be. That's good. It could be that. They're going to pick it up. You'd know something about that. Yeah. Not, not a, uh, not a typical, uh, route of contraction, but, um, but no, I mean, you're asking me for any reason, maybe, any reason could be they didn't want people out there walking around on Charlie's blood or where he died. And so you put down pavers to, out of, out of respect, out of, you know, whatever. But I don't, I don't see it. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. It looks like you're covering up a crime scene. Yeah. Joseph covered the Koberger case a lot out in, what was that, in Idaho. And he was even saying back then how much, how pissed off, he was. They raised that house like a couple months later. Yeah. And they did it because it was in the middle of like a bunch of college housing where a bunch of kids were still going to school. And it was obviously a very traumatic event. And like, it was a couple months later though. Yeah. And he was pissed about that. And this is like a couple days later. Yeah. They're doing this just block it off. It's just, it's a public assassination. Like it, that I've never been able to get around. Like what, what the fuck was that? I can't either. Um, they did the same thing at Parkland high school. They did the same thing as Sandy Hook. Uh, it's interesting that the, the school in Littleton, Colorado that kicked off the school shooting craze back in, was it 99? Uh, Harris and Klebold. Colum, uh, Columbine. I couldn't think of the name of the school. Um, it's interesting that school's still there. Yeah. Uh, they didn't knock it down. Yeah. Wasn't it Parkland, the one where that, where they kept stuff so preserved that maybe I'm thinking of the wrong one. They kept it so preserved though, that the jury was able to visit it and it was as if nothing had happened there. Uh, maybe, I don't know. Uh, there was one of them where they, they did that correctly. And it's like, well, why didn't you do that here? Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's interesting. I mean, um, you know, they, they've, they've other famous cases. They've redone the crime scenes. They did it at, uh, the Bundy address where allegedly OJ Simpson, uh, killed Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. They've, they've redesigned that they've, they've redone that, but that was what a decade later. Right. Decade and a half later. Right. Uh, certainly after the trial. Yeah. Um, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I mean, at the scene, yeah, there's a, there was a lot of weird stuff, um, that took place at the scene. I'm still weirded out by the fact that Mikey McCoy and Danny Phillip were both wearing backpacks on either side of Charlie Kirk when their car was like 10 feet away. Put your backpack in the car. It's blocked off. You've got it blocked off with police tape and gates. Why are you walking around in 91 degree heat in, in long sleeves and a backpack? But what would, what would the suspiciousness of them having a backpack be? I don't know. I'm just saying it's weird. Like put your backpack down. No one else was wearing backpacks on the team. They're the only two. And they were positioned basically equidistant with Charlie, making almost like a little triangle with Charlie. I, I don't know why that is. How long from him walking up from behind when he got out of the car to walk up there and did the hats and then sat down? How long was it approximately from then until he got shot? I, I heard 17 minutes and 28 seconds, but I could be wrong. Maybe that's maybe, maybe it was a minute or two longer. I don't know why that number, but I don't know. I don't know. That number's coming to my head. It was quick. Yeah. I'm a backpack guy. Like I, I take it places. I could see me like accidentally like leaving it on and just chilling there. But you don't accidentally leave it. You showed up in a car, you grabbed it out of the car and put it on your back. Right. Cause I went to, I got to a new place. I don't, I'm not as aware of my surroundings. I take the backpack out of, out of the car. I don't know where the car is going while I'm here. Maybe it's sitting here. Maybe it's not. You know what's going on. It's sitting right there. It's 10 feet away. Yeah. But I would probably take it. I would probably take my backpack. I'll allow it. That one I'm going to push back. I'll allow it. Yeah. I'd probably take my backpack. That's just me. Yeah. But I mean, I look at things like that and I think it's weird. I think it's weird that, that Nate Walker in the immediate aftermath was picked up on video upstairs. I mean, this is the guy who was carrying Charlie's binders and he's, you know, helping, I don't even know why he's there. He's only been working there a month or so, I think. But he, he shows up and he's helping Charlie with his binders and he has a little passenger bag with him. And then a minute or so after the, the event, everything's chaotic and, and Adam Bartholomew from Life is Driving YouTube channel is live streaming and he's flipping his camera around and Nate Walker's up on the roof. Like, why is Nate Walker on the roof? What's he doing up there? Where was he? Was he taking a leak? You know, I, maybe it was innocent, but I think this is where silence really works against TPUSA. Because in, in a situation like that, the first time somebody asked a question about why was Baron Coleman doing this? I was, I would say, well, Baron Coleman was doing this because of he. That's right. You know, I drank four cups of coffee on the way in and I had to go to the bathroom. Nothing to hide, you can say. The event had started. I'd already done my job. I'm wandering around campus. Yep. You know, what are you talking about? But the silence, when these issues are raised, they pick and choose which ones they're gonna address. And when they choose to address it, they do it in such a condescending, nasty, mean way that it, it's, it's like a, it's like a corner dog, you know? Like, stop, stop attacking us. We're, these are legitimate questions. It's a murder. You know, a lot of, a lot of people, the reason you have a job, the reason all these people at TPUSA are employed, they're 700 plus employees. The reason there's four different TPUSA organizations, the reason there's a podcast, the reason you guys are all at that event that day is because a lot of people really love Charlie Kirk, really deeply loved him. They were willing to travel a long way to go see him. They turned out at college campuses, they turned out in arenas, they sold out places, they bought his books. They made him a multiple time bestselling author. These questions are coming out of love. Answer the freaking questions, you know, answer the questions. These people want to know why Charlie's dead. And you, you sitting back and acting high and mighty and being condescending and being, uh, acting like you're above everybody else and you don't have to answer anything. And anyone asking questions, evil or corrupt or demonic or, or has bad motives, you know, that reflects so poorly on those people. That's, that's, that's not, that's not the posture to take when someone that was true. truly loved by a lot of people, by millions of people, is tragically died, and it looks weird? Answer the questions. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.