What the success of "Sinners" does (and doesn't) say about race and Hollywood

It's Oscar season and we watched the nominated movies so you don't have to. We are making some bold predictions for Hollywood's biggest night and we may help you win your Oscars pool. Listen to pop culture happy hour in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hits up, there'll be some film spoilers this episode. But come on y'all, this movie came out last spring. Come on. Let me be respectful. Hey everyone, you're listening to Code Switch. The show about race and identity from NPR. I'm BA Barker. And I'm Gene Dumbi. Gene, what are you doing for the Oscars this Sunday? What do you mean, Barker? I will absolutely not be watching them. Come on now. No watch party? I don't want to watch party. Oh, you know what I mean? Like a film head head, you know what I'm saying? I mean, do I know who won the Oscar in 1989? Sure. Yes. But I love the Oscars, even though I know that they're a bit of a racket. They are a racket. And every year, you know what I mean? We have to do this thing. We act like they matter. But they don't. Like, look at the list of best picture winners over the years. Y'all just heard Parker references. Like, Parker can name literally all the best picture winners going back like 60 years. Which is actually, it's very impressive. I will admit that. But like, nobody's favorite movie is, I don't know, Shakespeare in Love or Drop of Miss Devi. Oh my god. Or Crash. But you've also got Moonlight, Parasite, Spotlight, all the ice. Broken clocks. I, and you know what? But there is one movie that I do think we need to talk about. Which is "Cinners." The film has been the center of discourse around blackness and Hollywood and representation for more than a year now. Right, right, right. Absolutely. And "Cinners" is going to have a lot of bites at the Apple to win something on Sunday. Yep, I mean, it's got 16 Oscar nominations, the most in Oscar history. And like, that's a big deal for a black-focused movie. But also for horror films in particular. Yeah, like horror films, challenges, they don't tend to get a lot of love at these things, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, the last one was "Soul into the Lamb." Oh yeah, oh, that was like 35 years ago, yeah. Yeah, but it's like coming out of nowhere, right? I mean, "Cinners" was buzzing when it came out last spring. And then the awards so blitzed the past few weeks, there's been a groundsful of love for the film. It won Best Ensemble at the Actors Awards, where Michael B. Jordan also won Best Actor. There was of course the BAFTAs a week before that, where "Women Musaka" won for best supporting actress for her role in "Cinners." Ryan Cookler won a BAFTA for Best Original Screenplay, but all anybody was talking about after that show was that infamous moment when an audience member who had Tourette Syndrome shouted at the end word at Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo of "Cinners" while they were on the stage presenting an award. But yeah, there's so much discourse around "Cinners." And that's probably not surprising Parker because, you know, films that are focused on Black people tend to carry all this weight with them and people invest all this sort of feeling and like hope in their success in ways that are probably not the healthy we're going to get into that, we're going to get to that. But yeah, like the way people talk about, say like one battle after another and "Cinners," it almost felt like partisan, like these two movies or pitted against each other and people's the way people sort of conceptualize them, like it almost felt like zero something, you know? I mean, and we can all live in a happy medium, but Jean, we're going to get into all of that on today's show ahead of the Oscars. "Cinners," but more so, how we talk about "Cinners." We talk to pop culture, happy hour host Aisha Harris and New York Magazine's film critic Angelica Jade Bastien about what "Cinners" gets right and wrong and what to make of the award show love for Black films. And just for clarity, y'all, Parker and I both thought "Cinners" was fine, right? That was fine. Aisha loved it and Angelica said it had a lot of stuff in it, a lot of really interesting big ideas, but that it felt just short of greatness for her. Listen to pop culture, happy hour in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. So for those of you who have managed not to watch the movie "Cinners" by now, let Aisha bring you up to speed. "Cinners" is a period piece drama set in Mississippi in the 30s. That suddenly at some point goes from being like an exploration of these twin smoke and stack who were played by Michael B. Jordan and their attempt to put up a juke joint. So all the black people in their community can commune and what loosen be free. And then vampires show up and metaphors are mixed. Things happen, people are killed. Buddy Guy makes a cameo. And yeah. That's what I got. I think that's good. Yeah. What did you all think of the movie when you first saw it before the before the discourse started? I would say then and now I felt that "Cinners" was like two movies that actually don't make sense together put together. One of my biggest complaints in my review was that as a horror movie, dealing with the idea of the vampire, this movie does not work as a horror movie. On multiple levels, I just don't think it has the bite. No, but for real, I just felt it didn't have a sort of spark it had when it was just exploring these characters as people. But once the horror movie elements are injected into the story, a lot of it kind of falls apart, not just in terms of visually, I don't think it looks as interesting, but thematically as well, it does not cohere. I also recognize that it is in perfect movie. To me, it doesn't necessarily reach the, if we're throwing this in the Oscars conversation, I don't think it necessarily reaches the same heights as some other movies that are nominated, but it's still my favorite movie of last year, I think, in part because shout out to my film professor Ed Guerrero, who in one of his classes, we talked about how black artists, black filmmakers, often especially in the 60s and 70s, they rarely had a chance to be in movies and make movies that had characters of substance. So when you see black artists who are able to make something, they're putting it all out there as if they will never work again. And I feel like sinners is Ryan Kugler's attempt at that. This is him putting everything out there that he wants to do. Everything he's wanted to do. And the difference here is that he's had multiple opportunities beforehand. He's had more opportunities than most black filmmakers have had ever to do the small indie movie, Fruitvale Station, and then to move to reworking entire franchise with Creed. And then, of course, Black Panther. And now he's like, I'm going to make my personal piece. And there are going to be vampires. There are going to be religious overtones. There are going to be all of these little things. There are going to be twins. I like blues. We're going to have some blues in there. We're going to have an entire, like, kind of, kind of, didactic thesis statement in the form of the visual world of music and incorporate some things. And it doesn't necessarily all work, but vibe wise. It works for me. And what I think it's trying to do is just admirable. And I give extra points often for filmmakers, even when they don't necessarily land the plane. If they take that leap, I give them more credit. And I think that's what he's doing here. Can we talk about this didactic thesis statement? Because I think the senior is talking about is when they're in the Duke joint. I had a front who said she was moved its hairs at that scene. I was like, oh, okay. So like, and we had completely different experiences. So just if you haven't seen the movie, there's a scene when they're in the Duke joint and they're the all of the people are like getting their lives. There are legends of people born with the gift of making music so true. It can piece the male between life and death, conjuring spirits from the past. And the future. And it sort of reaches this moment of like, ecstasy where everyone is like together and dancing across time sort of like, it's like, literalized all the sort of like, um, different kinds, different modes of dance through like the different sort of folk ways of black folks and for the Asian folks and the like, it's just all the sort of culture come to literally like show up in the room with them. And yeah, if you like that scene, the rest of it will probably work for you. You're getting like, "Ooh, this is a lot." I mean, for me, it actually reminded me of a scene in the movie I had seen, like five years before. There's a movie by Steve McQueen called "Lovers Rock." That is absolutely gorgeous. It's about a house party from beginning middle to end. And there's a big sequence where there's the song. Everyone starts singing together. And the music dies down. Everyone is like a tent revival. Everyone is like sweating in exaltation. And immediately thought of that. And I was like, this is a less subtle version of what I saw in "Lovers Rock," of like black people in community, other like other people in community, needing to connect and what that connection can look like. Someone came to the realization, I just don't think that Americans are good at subtlety. Okay. But I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think what I can do is not. I'm apparently valuable. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big maximalist. So I am, you know, subtlety and I'm a southerner. So what is subtlety? Right? Let's do too much. But I will say I'm a big fan of nuance, which is where you can do maximalism, but have enough texture to it that it doesn't feel like one note and overwhelming. My problem with that Duke joint scene is on a thematic and like intellectual level that really interests me. Like, oh, we're like really trying to like play around with the idea of ancestral practice and like the lineage of black music coming from the delta and expanding outward into the world. And then you make it the corneous thing imaginable. I think one thing I've been thinking about with sinners on that level of wow, it's so great to watch a filmmaker take a big swing at least they're trying something. I think sinners benefits from the fact that I think film itself is in its flop era, especially in this country. Like people are not trying. I'm like, am I going to have to write y'all scripts because y'all, y'all need to get it together. It's not just the up and coming actors. It's the up and coming filmmakers. It's everything happening with AI. The industry is in a place that is really bad for art. So it's actually rare to see filmmakers actually do something, actually have a point of view. Actually want to evoke an emotion from their audience. And this movie is really trying to dig into its audience and evoke something. And that's really powerful. But it does benefit from the fact that film as a medium. I'm not even just talking about the American film industry and not just Hollywood. I think film as a medium is in its flop era and has been for a while. That is leading to very interesting conversations around the movies we're getting because we're just not getting much. So you think that if we were all, if we were all experiencing movies that were trying to evoke something, right? And sinners would just be another movie that had us in our feelings and not like the movie around which all this stuff has to hang. Yes. And I think it's also just there's so much weighing on sinners. So we have witnessed in Hollywood a return to whiteness so fierce it has made my head spin. So there's now a pressure on the films from marginalized communities to do so much better. And that was already the case before. Now I feel like because of how strained it is to get a film into production, how hard it is now to get financing, it is just the aperture is narrowing basically when it comes to film. And it puts so much on movies. And it also, I think if there were more movies that actually gave people something to wrestle with, we would have a populist that had better media literacy and understood actually how to interact with film as a medium you read. If you're not used to a movie actually asking anything of you, it can be hard to kind of know how to read it and like engage with it in a way that's like taking into account what the movie is actually doing and not what we needed or wanted to do. I feel like with sinners particularly last year, winds up as being all this discourse and trying to break down each scene and like the significance of each, there's like everyone's putting in like their microscope to pull out, to extract something from the movie that sometimes there, sometimes isn't there, sometimes literacy's not there and you get some like really ignorant takes. But what does sinners do on a deeper level? That's a doing thing on a deeper level. I will say one thing that sinners is doing on a deeper level that I have been thinking about a lot because I think it's important to place a movie into its larger context and not just look at it as like a thing onto itself but something that exists in the culture. There's something very interesting to me about this era and like Black independent and Black American cinema in general over the last let's say 15 years. It's very interesting to me how much of it engages with the Black South. It's almost like a returning home and trying to figure out wounds that were never fully healed. And that aspect of sinners like reckoning with how much the South has given us, making an argument for the importance of this Black South and how diverse and weird and funky and revelatory it is. I think that aspect of the movie is really fascinating. Even if I still don't think it's going as deep as it could be, there's something about the movie for better and for worse that very much feels like Kugler in like a sandbox as a kid playing with things and putting a bunch of things together you wouldn't necessarily expect. And that like experimentation is very effervescent and fun but I think sometimes it means that these larger considerations in the movie don't get a depth they deserve because there's just so much he has to handle with this narrative and so many threads. So I think just with the movie I think it's handling a lot but just doesn't fully I keep coming back to the work co here but I think that's my problem with things it's like things don't fit together as smoothly as they should and I'm actually a big fan of like a rough-hune movie. I'm a big fan of a movie that is actually kind of messy but it's doing something that hits me emotionally. I think I will forgive a movie for a lie if I feel it's speaking to me on a very human level. The vibes are important. Like most of a movie's success is the vibe really. It's like do I like to sit in this world? But I think you know when we're having conversations about what Black film should be I want more than just a vibe. I want to feel the full weight of these people's humanity and I think a lot of what I found is things that the actors more than what the script was allowing them to do. One of the things that I think about and I don't feel like there has been I haven't seen as much conversation about the religious aspect of this and how it sort of questions Christianity throughout the film which is something I rarely see in a Black film. Like this is one of my biggest pet peeves of Black Hollywood generally speaking is that like we're all we're all in on Christianity. Like if if Densowans and Oscar he's gonna he's gonna thank God first. And as someone who was not raised in a religious household and who does not consider themselves religious or even spiritual I crave movies that at least attempt to like wrestle with the idea of Christianity within the Black experience and I think the way this movie does that especially through moments you know obviously stack and smoke. I can't remember which but one of them has like they they don't they're not very religious and you have that whole scene with Annie and smoke when they first get back together and she's talking about who do voodoo and whatnot. How you know I ain't brave. I work every route my grandma taught me to keep you in that crazy brother you're safe every day since you've been going. Then he's like that none of that has has actually saved it didn't save the child that we were supposed to have. I appreciate that aspect of it and maybe it's just because there's so much so many other things going on I would have thought more people would have been either upset about it or talking about it but it feels like you just kind of snuck in there where he's like and the fact that even at the end you know the Miles Kaying character he chooses he's like no daddy I'm not going to be a part of the church I'm going to do what I want to do because you're forcing me to choose and I'm going to choose music he's a sinner quote unquote. I I like that and I think it's there there are ways it could have gone deeper on that level and I think even seeing Annie at the end in the all white and there that kind of goes back to sort of a more religious aspect of this idea of the afterlife but also I just want more things I want more movies that wrestle with this idea of Christianity and and how it how it has and hasn't served Black people throughout all of history. Part of the discourse around sinners is is like that it is like it is carrying all this way I just gonna be mad at me because I'm gonna bring up retails as I'm like contractually all I get to do is still have a watch that makes still I want it. And let's trade love. Let's trade loves. So You remember, remember, way back in the day, when that movie is rolling out, right? Red Tells movie about the Tuskegee Airmen, it's a terrible movie, right? But like, before it came out, George Lucas was making the rounds, he was doing his press, and he was like, "Look, these white Hollywood executives didn't want this to get made, right?" And he was basically kind of not very subtly trying to do this like riling of the troops, like, "Hey, black folks, you oughta come out open a weekend and show them that black movies deserve to be made in Hollywood." - They literally organized events, like local cities organized events for absolutely going. - They did the same thing with hidden figures, a few years later. - Hidden figures, that you got church groups. - The hidden figures worked though, that I had to go on a church group. - Is a church group? - It was just like, it was-- - It was figures with my mom. - Oh my God, it was like, but you treat this sort of commercial, like this is a Hollywood movie, it's being treated like this sort of political sort of activity, right? Like if you support, even a language support, not, you're gonna see the movie support, even a language tells you about the way this sort of position. And I think obviously, that was sort of the grossest way to do it, the way the dersey was doing it. But there's versions of this conversation with the "Howdy Bailey Little Mermaid" movie, like, "Oh my God, do you see the people mad about a black area?" Like, y'all better show them. You know what I'm saying? This sort of thing that swirls around black movies. And so even when you say something like, "Am I trying to dog you?" I'm just like, it feels like all of these movies end up sort of carrying this sort of sometimes implicit, but sometimes very explicit weight of like, the future of black cinema in Hollywood, rest on how what this movie does. And I think that's part of the conversation around whether cinema's a much more asker's this year, is like, what does that tell you about the future of black cinema? And I think that's like just too much for any one single-- It is. It is too much for any one movie. No movie can take on the burden of an entire people. All I ask for a black film to be is to exist and be interesting, to leave some impression on me. When we come back, what sinners wanting an asker might mean and what it might not? Yeah, I really think if sinners wins the Oscar for best picture, it is because of how Hollywood wants to see itself. That's coming up, y'all. Stay with us. It's Oscar season and we watched the nominated movies, so you don't have to. We are making some bold predictions for Hollywood's biggest night, and we may help you win your Oscars pool. Listen to "Pop Culture Happy Hour" in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Parker. Jean. Code switch. And we've been talking to Aisha Harris of NPR's "Pop Culture Happy Hour" and Angelica J. Bastien, I'm New York Magazine, about sinners. Or I guess we are discoursing about the discourse around sinners. And Angelica said that she wishes the energy from sinners to the biggest, staunchest defenders would carry over to other films. One thing that sort of pisses me off with the sinners' discussion is like, you would think and hope that, okay, we're having these really complex, sometimes absolutely ridiculous conversations about a black movie, because obviously we care about, on some level, people care about the artistry. They want, they want to see some black movies and they want to talk about them. That's great. But can you guys also watch movies that aren't the ones that are getting the most heat? Like what upsets me is just that this hasn't led to like a stunning curiosity into the history of black independence cinema. Because a lot of times people will complain, well, we don't do this in movies and don't do that in movies for black people. And I'm like, well, actually, I can point you to several movies that do, but you would actually have to want to look into that. Well, I also want to add, like, to this point, we can, I'll just suggest one right now, Wunmi Musako, who is in "Cinners," is also in a really great movie called "His House," a horror movie that came out five, six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I also think, like, I also completely understand, and I agree with like, no movie should, they can't have this much power. But at the same time, we are living in a moment where there's that, and there's also like film people in general, or trying to get people to go out and see movies, like go to the theater and see them. And I do think like, one of the things that I at least appreciate about the "Cinners" discourse, as it were, is the fact that it encouraged people to actually go to a theater. Now, is it leading them to other movies, not necessarily, but that could have been the case 20 years ago. Like, I don't think that's really changed, because most people have very, I'm sorry to say it, they have very basic tastes in movies, or they don't go to the movies very often. They don't, like, it's not part of their regular diet or consumption, or how they entertain themselves. One thing that I try to grapple with with the discussion of "Cinners" with like, well, "Cookler" right now is like the "Gold" in "Bloy" with, you know, something I'm extremely uncomfortable is there's this, like, "Pinchant" for exceptionalizing, like, one black filmmaker every eight years. I mean, before this, you had, like, Jordan Peel, who went to Oscar for a original screenplay for "Get Out." And now Ryan Cooke was up for "A Original Screenplay" for "Cinners." - There was like a little Barry Jenkins moment in there, and so on, you know. - That was adapted. That was different. But, like, but I was like, "Barry Jenkins, there is like this need that can only be won at a time. It's only allowed to be like one exceptional black filmmaker every eight years. What do you do with that, Keshe? - I've found that there's so much black filmmaking that's happening and has been happening for the last, like, 10, 15 years, especially. And yes, there's only one or two who get anointed every once in a while, and I would throw Ava D'Vernay in there also briefly around the time of Selma and 13th documentary. - Maybe one time, right? It's as much as it then works with some big deal. - Yeah, that was rough. That was. But I think it's like my job as a critic is to try and point people toward the other movies that black filmmakers are making. And I think there are some. I think about Boots Riley, who has a movie coming out that I'm so excited about. There's a lot of filmmaking that's happening at Zola, which I think is a great movie, Jinnick Sbrok. There are really, really exciting filmmakers who are doing weird stuff and doing things that are not necessarily mainstream. And that's kind of, I take that as a challenge of like, "Okay, I want to highlight these people and whoever finds it, finds it." I don't think I'm as down on filmmaking as Angelica is at this point. I do think there's a lot that excites me, but I also understand that you do have to dig deeper to find that stuff. It is not easy to find it. And especially with streaming and everything, it's just gotten really difficult and overwhelming. And I understand that sentiment. And I hope people are more curious than I think they are. - Yeah, as much as I feel like film as a medium is in its flop era, which I know is a very bold statement. There are still obviously movies every year that I'm really taken with a couple years ago. There's this really amazing French movie directed and written by Alice Diocque called Saint-O-Mayr. - Yes, sure. - And I think the way it handles madness and motherhood and immigration is stunning. Like, it's one of the most striking films I've seen in the last few years. And so there's just so much territory that has yet to be touched by black filmmakers. I think the one thing that excites me is that there is so much left to do. There is so much left to explore. And I hope, you know, the conversation around and there's just makes people a little bit more curious about what film can do. And maybe they'll lead them to finding a movie like Saint-O-Mayr or Aldert Road's Taste of Salt. That's like a stunning, gorgeous poem of a movie. You know, there's just so much film can do. And I think it's a medium burdened with a lot of expectation, especially because it intersects with so many different fields. But my only hope for Black film is that it continues and I have a fun time watching some of it. - Right, you know. - So now we have like the Academy Awards coming up. If Saint-O-Mayr was a win-best picture, it would be the first time since Moonlight won in 2017 where a black focused film gets the big prize. What would be the significance if it wins? Or should it be? - I mean, it would be significant to the people who actually want it, but to the rest of us. I mean, let's be real. I'm with Angelica. Like I only care about the Oscars in so much as it's required of my job. Right, like I have to cover it. We cover it on PCHH. Like that's what we do. But I start caring a very long time ago because if it wins, I will be happy because I really, I've already said I love this movie. But I also like, it's been how long we've had one Black woman win best actress. And I remember that. I was a kid, but I remember it being like, "Oh, this is amazing. Things are changing." And you know, I'm not a kid anymore. And I've seen the light. And I know the light is due. The Oscars is, it is such a, nothing burger in terms of like, yes, it's nice to see that like every once in a while, a movie that never would have won 20 years ago can do that. I think of moonlight obviously, but also everything everywhere I like once. Like, but then there's always a green book. And there's just so many other factors that are involved because they're ranked choice void. Like you can't even, really whoever wins is like who who campaigns the best and also manage to rank in the like just enough to get there and predicting these things it's a fool's errand I have to do it but it's like why it doesn't actually matter. It also like it feels very much like a 2017 conversation where it's like oh the Oscars are so white no shame to that but like you know I'm saying like what like we need to diverse about the Oscars and like but you know I think about Monique when precious came out and like when she was on the doing sort of rounds she was making a point about credentialing and how it works think a lot of black people understand implicitly you can have these credentials but it depends on who you are like you know I'm saying she was saying like look if I win this Oscar it ain't gonna change not for me you know I'm saying like it's not I'm not gonna have a like a giant quote I'm able to give out you know to say like you put me in this movie to so much I need to be paid I'm not going to be cast in different kinds of movies she's like I just want you to be clear that I'm not doing the song and dance because it doesn't change any different I think it's like a thing that black will because I understand about the way credential works and all these other facets of life right but it feels like every year when the Oscars come around everyone was like oh but this this time and it's like I don't know I'm surprised that the extent to which people are really much like if sinners doesn't win it's gonna be some problems like if sinners doesn't win it'll tell you not yeah I really think you know if sinners wins the Oscar for best picture it is because of how Hollywood wants to see itself that is what the Oscars will tell you a little bit about like a sort of gut check of the industry and certain halls of power sinners winning would shore up the Oscars vision of itself is actually about the moment and about people and how they respond to film but the thing is winning Oscars has never helped black filmmakers it has never like dramatically change the nature of what gets greenlit what gets funded and how the actual money makers and producers and studio heads approach what a film can be so we can talk to the cows are home about like you know had a McDaniel and and city putty and all these firsts and whatever they are they are symbols that carry very little weight and the fact that we're even still talking about this not not just the Oscars but the fact that like no black director has one best director yet like it's been a hundred I mean not a hundred years of the Oscars but it's been close to a hundred years of the Oscars and you know we this hasn't happened yet and that's wild it's wild so I don't care but you know what it's not just Oscars it's all words I don't I I put no weight in any words I don't believe in them because most of them are paid a play in some fashion and I think there are other ways to honor people and and under their work other than you know these big fancy dress up get people drunk affairs where you also have to like be a politician before months and and go around and talk about your craft and how many years you were practicing table tennis ping pong whatever I don't care I also should be like the Oscars were created as a union bus then tactic is to yes they were in that actors that they weren't labor can you can you so it sounds like wait so like the Oscars were like the pizza party like oh we can't give you all raised because of his little pizza party for you all in the and the don't revolt if we give you something shine yeah yeah I think people people look at you know celebrity is during Oscars season and we look at what they do is a craft rather than a business and that is a mistake because the history of like labor in Hollywood is super fascinating and the Oscars roll in that is also super fascinating and there were actors at the time because you have to keep in mind when the Oscars were beginning in Hollywood had coalesce the studio system owned their actors this was not Tom Cruise getting paid 20 million and doing one movie every few years these are people who were doing countless movies a year being paid very little but they were the face of these huge corporations and to create the Oscars was very much well we don't want these people to unionize we don't want these people to realize how much power they have in like a collective movement because the reason people come to the movies is not because they're thinking about what Jack Warner produced they're thinking about washing Betty David this or Barbara Stanwick who was one of the best actors in the history of American cinema cinema period does she have any Oscars or nominations no and you know and we still love that girl because who cares who cares I should tell a good thank you so much. Thank you. Well, yeah, I was. And that's our show you can follow us on Instagram and NPR code switch if email is more your thing ours is code switch at npr.org and subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also subscribe to the code switch newsletter by going to npr.org/code switch newsletter. And just a reminder y'all that sign up for code switch plus is a great way to support our show and support public media you may have heard we need your help. And you can tell us in every episode of our show and other NPR shows sponsor free so please go find out more at plus dot npr dot org slash code switch. This episode was produced by Xavier Lopez was edited by Dalian Martotta and Leah Denella our engineer was Jimmy Keely. And we will be a remiss of course if we did not shout out the rest of the code switch massive that's Christina collar just cung and you'll on the sun. I'm Jane Denby. I'm B.A. Parker. Be. E. Z.O. Hydra. It's Oscar season and we watched the nominated movies so you don't have to we are making some bold predictions for Hollywood's biggest night and we may help you win your Oscars pool. Listen to pop culture happy hour in the npr app or wherever you get your podcasts.