What the Best BDR Teams Are Doing Differently Right Now with Lauren Reeves

Hey real quick before we get into the conversation. Look, if you've been listening to this podcast for a while now, you know I don't house sponsors. And it's mainly because I know most people, including myself, skip right through them, and I just don't want to annoy my audience with 10 minutes of sponsor spots every single week. However, it also means I don't get paid to do this. So the way I help fund my ability to provide free content and really interesting conversations like the one you're about to hear is through my sales training and coaching services. So if you've gotten value out of some of these conversations on this podcast, and you're looking to level up your sales game, do me a favor and go to jbaros.com and check out the training tab on the top nav bar. I have training for teens or individuals, and you can even get an individual training module focused on a specific skill that you're looking to address like objection handling negotiations much more. If you're an individual, you can also use discount code podcast for 20% off the membership. Look, sales is evolving faster than ever right now, especially with AI. And we all need to level up or risk becoming irrelevant. Whether you're an executive looking to train your entire team or you're an individual rep looking to level up, I promise I can help you get to where you want to go in 2026. Send me an email to schedule call or sign up to my membership today and let's make it happen together. Now, let's get on with the show. Hey everyone, welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays where we talk about sales, business entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between. We guess what I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. Now this week we got Lauren Reeves on the show. Lauren is a senior BDR manager at Swap Commerce, one of the fastest growing e-commerce software companies in the world right now. She's got seven years experience exclusively in the BDR and STR space. She scaled the team at Swap from six reps to over 40 across three global offices to group and Kent outside of London, studied journalism at Cardiff University has a background in dance that took her to the China at 16 years old, which is pretty cool. And she co-hosts a podcast called Can't Take the Call right now, which is pretty funny. I found Lauren through her LinkedIn content and her vibes stood out to me immediately. It's one of those things where I actually don't know why she just popped onto the screen but for me, and my feed, but she's been hosting consistently for a couple of years now. And she is one of the biggest champions of STRs right now where everybody else is just saying STRs are done, BDRs are over, you know AI is taking over that role and she is the shining light that is an example of why they're not, which is why I wanted to talk to her because, you know, look, I train STRs, BDRs all the time. I have for the vast majority of my career, but I'm not there on the floor anymore with them. I'm not like making the calls, doing the coaching, you know, every single day. So I don't see what's really happening. So I wanted to get her perspective on this and she has some great perspectives. I mean, she, a lot of the stuff that tried and true things that I remember and I still teach on, she's an advocate for it. I mean, the phone still works when done right. You know, email hyper personalization that she talked about. We talked about coaching the reps and hiring, which is probably the most critical and, you know, she has the vibe check, right? Where, yeah, it's okay if they can check off all the boxes that they can do the job, but is the vibe there. And for her, she's like, I don't know if I can put my finger on it, but that's one of those things that really is critical. So she is one of the best voices, I think, right now that is championing this role and seeing results doing it. I think that's the difference here is that so many people are talking about co-coing's dead or emails dead, but they don't really show what they're doing. And I think it's more based on their opinion than the reality. Now, don't get me wrong. Connect rates are getting brutal, response rates are down, but when you have the right mix of the team, the management, the vibe, the company, SDR BDO rules still execute at an extremely high level and provide a tone of value to an organization. So this was a breath of fresh air out of all the AI, doing room about this role, and really love the conversation and more on what she's doing over there. So hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. Let's make it happen. Lauren Reeves, welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast. How are you doing today? I'm doing so well. Thank you for having me. When you messaged, I was like, I've listened to this podcast for so long. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, no, I'm good. It's nice and late now in the UK. It a good day. And then I'm a prep and for Thursday tomorrow. So yeah, pretty good. How about you? Good, real good. I mean, you know, these days it's a I go from being super optimistic and like I can conquer the world to oh my god, we're all going to die like within, you know, every 30 minutes for kind of. So right now, I'm super optimistic and feeling good. So at this moment, things are fantastic. Thank you. 12 hours. Yeah, exactly who knows. But with, I mean, outside of all the macroeconomic stuff, that that's a whole different story. So but the but the micro of what you can control, I think things are going okay for now. So one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the podcast was because, you know, I, I, but by the way, just so I'm catching up here, how long have you been posting on LinkedIn? Like how long have you been really like like getting the voice out there for SDRs and kind of champion that cause? So I've actually I post on LinkedIn pretty much since I was an SDL myself, which was over seven years ago now. I would say I had a good chunk of time when I was an SDR for about a year and a half or I post a lot of content for myself when I was an SDR while I was seeing. And then when I first stepped into management, I kind of went quiet because I thought, how can I share my advice when I'm new to management? I've not, I've not, I've not earned my stripes yet, basically, is how I felt. Not that I think anyone would have thought that. I think actually people would have loved to have seen me talk about my experience. But you know, how it is you're thinking, oh my god, I'm being judged and publicly can't have that. So I would say I've consistently posted on LinkedIn now for about two years and it's been focused on BDR, helping BDRs, being a leader, my experience as a manager, etc. And then the video content I really stepped up in the last like 18 months. Okay, cool. Cause yeah, because it's interesting that you like, I think you popped into my feed about six months ago. And that's where I started kind of be like, all right, you know, there's somebody out there at least championing the BDR role when everything else is being against it. So that's really why I wanted to talk to you because, you know, I, you know, obviously I trained BDRs, I trained SDRs, I've trained it for my entire career. And, you know, but I'm not on the ground floor anymore, making the calls, coaching them one on one. And, you know, I have my opinions about what's going on and what needs to happen in the shift. But I wanted to really hear from you on the ground floor of what's working, what's not. And what's working so well for you, because you guys are kicking ass over there. So, but before we get into any of that, Lauren, I always love to hear the, you know, your, your arc, if you will. And the stuff that we can't find on, on LinkedIn. And for you, you know, the dance theme, the theater and going to China and all that stuff is fascinating to me. And then journalism. So walk me through kind of what made Lauren Lauren your influences as a kid. And, and I'm very curious about the Chinese that go into China and dancing and further. So, could you walk us through that? I'm looking into the details of the SDR stuff. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up somewhere called Kent, which is just Southeast of London, from a very working class family. My dad's an electrician, my mom helped manage some cuffs. In fact, growing up my mom didn't work. So, there's a single income household. And so, growing up, I always had like an idea in my head, okay. I could tell they were living paychecks, paychecks, couldn't always get to go on the school trip or whatever. But they spoiled me in other ways. So, I started dancing when I was two and a half years old. And I still love it. I think dance is amazing. I think any form of like expression. What kind of dance ball? I did all of it. All of it. What's your favorite? Is it? I think my favorite is like commercial. Because it's very a motive. Where my feelings on my face. And I think with commercial dance, it's fun. Because you can get my proper into it. But did the whole shebang ballet, tap, jazz, commercial, did the competitions, all of that growing up. And when I got to around 1516, it was that decision of, do I go to perform in arts college or do I do my A levels and then go to university? And at the time, so not that it matters as much now, but I'm not skinny gal. I'm not by any means overweight, but I'm not skinny. And in dance, you had to be pretty skinny at that point. There was, you know, Kim Kardashian changed. People's opinions of bodies. Like, at that point, that was not the case for me. Had to be skinny. It was still very much that physique. And that wasn't my physique. So I already had this idea that it was going to be quite difficult. And I really enjoyed school. I loved reading. I still love reading. And I was like, hey, what could I do at university that's kind of creative? I get to use my brain a bit, but it's not just an English lip degree. And I was like, I'll just do journalism. And I was just literally in at school, like, what kind of degree could I do? Came up with it. And so chose to get on the university path because I basically said, hey, there's every chance that I won't get employed if I'm a dancer. And looking back with COVID, all of my performing artists' friends were unemployed for the longest time, you know? So, you know, you're in hindsight, like, wow, like that was never the way I could have predicted. but look at the difference in my life because I made that decision. So went to university and yeah I then go and say it was but before that because I entered in China so I like I said I've done a lot of different genres of dance and the dance school that I attended was partnered with someone called Fassan in this class that's terribly in the south of China. They had like their own little school out there and their students would come to the UK and then we would get invited to go out to China. So I got invited one year and I was 16 to go out and perform for the Chinese New Year celebrations in Fassan in China which was so so fun. It was so exciting. Yeah it was incredible credible. What did that teach you about just people, right cultures? Because I mean I think that's one of the things that once you get out of your little hometown in your area, right? You start to see the world and how even even if you can't speak the language, what were some of the things you took away from that experience that you feel shaped you today? I think one of the biggest things for me that I found so interesting was and I've been to China twice. I went again when I was 18 to go for like a trek and some villages and things so very different experiences but when I went the first time I think that is so interesting how because I was from England and I'm part of the Western world, they sort of looked at us like we were like celebrities and I actually was like wow you're blonde hair the right? It was so interesting whereas I feel like because also there isn't as much diversity in China most people that live in China are Chinese and obviously in the main cities there will be some diversity of culture because most cities do have a diversity of culture but where I was did not have that like I didn't see anyone else looking like me like everyone was mostly Chinese and it did remind me like wow like there's like so much that you don't know and I think it's 16 like get a reminder of that it's quite it's like a step back I think as an adult you know that more you can be more humble about it but when you're a 16-year-old kid like so you know your genius you know everything your parents are stupid and you're a genius right the whole I'm going through that right now in my daughter you're like 30 when you're 16 it's hilarious I look back and I'm like go go and yeah I just I remember just thinking like wow like my life is so different and it's really common to go to boarding school in China most people do boarding school and I thought that was so fascinating as I couldn't imagine no being a boarding school like you guys literally have to stay at school every day five days away from your parents you know what I mean like crazy like it just I think it was like it was a big like well like life here is so different what I did find really really lovely actually about Chinese culture is they were all so happy hmm everyone was so happy and I was like if you went into a school in the UK and you looked around wouldn't see that the vibe would not be happiness most of them would be frowns leaning on their elbow like oh look at who but they genuinely were so grateful to be there and I think that that was something that was just really kind of eye-opening as well I just think they've got such a culture around gratitude and like thankful for what they get and things I just don't think we're not as ingrained I would just take it for granted in the UK so and Western world generally so yeah so so cool really close parents so journalism uh what did you learn there like I mean it's about questioning asking better like so from a sales standpoint I got to imagine that because right now you know there was a trend obviously when it was oh you want to be a coder and you got to be engineer and all this other stuff and people kind of laughed at liberal arts degrees and and stuff like journalism like I'll give me a break right like you just waste four years now all that stuff is coming back and vote because IQ is kind of almost a commodity at this point and EQ is everything so the ability to read people the ability to ask better questions so what were some of the things and just from my perspective I kind of skipped through college and I was like yeah yeah whatever you know if I look back on it there was there was those foundational learnings but I had a hard time looking at them back then um was there something that stood out to you about journalism that that significantly helped you when you when you moved into your sales career I think what was so brilliant about my course was it really dived into the culture cultural impacts within society why good journalism's important media bias and noticing when stories or views are very construed in one way or another and that was one thing I really loved about my degree and um there was so much around like women in the workplace feminism diversity and I think stepping in to sales there's a lot of that there too I think what's so interesting just like generally the women were the secretaries we were the ones that did the memos etc and then it transitioned and actually being a journalist was a really male profession which was really interesting because that was seen as more intelligent and women couldn't couldn't do that and so there was like so much like breaking down a stereotypes and things like that and that's what you have in sales as well very much still the case where it is majority men there's not as many female leaders etc etc and I think that going into my working career having learned how to study and understand media literacy and what sort of being presented to you definitely had a really big impact on me because I was very vocal as soon as I entered the workplace I'm very much like but I think that when you're new especially at 21 entering the you know corporate you know I've worked I worked in bars I worked in night clubs at university because I needed money to pay my bills because otherwise I couldn't and so I worked my whole way through university that I'd go into a nine five job after being used to working 8 pm till 7 am on the bar shift like what's such a difference but it also meant that I was happy to say oh I don't like that why do we do that way that doesn't make sense to me like just that I've interest like why do we do that whereas I think a lot of people when they're that young and they're entering the workplace I won't ask questions I'll just do is what they just do with the toll basically like oh yeah that's how things are that's how they are and I I was not like I feel really sorry for my first manager I honestly look back and I think Mark I'm sorry for what I put you through because I questioned everything and that definitely came from my time at university I think I learned a lot outside of my degree not just in it I think it was so interesting being with people that had parents that could pay for them to be university could give them money every month they didn't need to work they could get on with it they could literally just do their degree and then go out because obviously we at 18 we can we can drink in the UK so everyone's missed basically where is I was working 36 hour weeks and doing my degree and I wasn't going out I was the one serving them the alcohol in the bar and I think that that taught me so much about money management about managing my time the importance of what I'm doing why I'm doing it whereas I think none of my friends didn't get that until they left university I think they had the wake up call there whereas I had that at 18 I think that also made a difference stepping into a sales career for sure is that something now that you're a manager is that something are there certain because I would say like being a waiter or waitress like that's a green that's that's something I look for because you have to adjust and it's about hard work the hard of you work the more you get paid and you have to adapt and all that stuff when you're looking to hire because you went from six to forty at way right now and do you look for certain characteristics that that stand out to you outside because everybody's resume is going to be perfect these days with AI specifically so what are some of the characteristics you look for that highlight oh this is this is somebody that that fits my vibe that fits the plant like what are we doing yeah I I love it when I hear that someone's worked whilst they went to university college like that says a lot to me because it means that you know that nothing comes for free you had to go and you had to go get even if your parents did support you and they did give you money but you still chose to go and get a part-time job if that was a sat-day morning at a coffee shop for three hours you still chose to go and do that that is such a good sign to me because it shows you've got there's something ticking there you're already on it in that sense so I love that then when I'm having my conversations of people when I asked the first question I ever asked is so how did you come across the BDR role tell me about how you why are you here what what happened and the answer to that also tells me a lot because some people will be genuine they'll be like I need a job and so I started looking and I saw this role and based on what it sort of lays out honestly it's like I can do it I think that I suited this role and I'm like okay why do you think that I sit it real tell me do that but then you get some people that are like I just think that the BDR role is great why why is it great that doesn't that does not answer my question like give me more and then my favorite is when people are like oh yeah like my friend does it okay so what is it So just because your friend is a why do you think you're going to that tell me about your friend? Well, what about your friend says that that means that you're gonna get this role Tell me about that and then our to that tells me a lot So I always saw me interviews with that and then as I'm digging in One thing that I start doing on interviews is that I actually give them live feedback and how they respond to that Feedback says a lot to me as well like okay, are they coachable? Are they open to learning? Do they? You know wants to develop that's all there just in that first conversation and I'm sure a lot of managers would agree with me on this But there's also just a vibe and I hate saying that because The feedback sorry you just didn't match my vibe, but yeah, when you're chatting to someone I think it's the same as when you're speaking to somebody and you're like oh you're a bit rude Like you can just tell there's something about them and I think I'll be on an interview with somebody and their answers would just be like that little bit too vague or I'm not feeling enough of that towards it and You can tell that they have applied for this role because they needed a job not because they wanted the job And that is they're they're two different things Everyone needs a job. We all got bills to pay But what you want this job not just have the job because you need a job and when I feel that I'm like no I always say as well. I Do not want to work with a deck. I say that every interview I go don't wear with decks I work with nice people you could be the best person I interview and I think that your skills gonna match up with everything But if I don't think you're gonna be a nice person you're not my team That's so important to me as well. What are you bringing to my team? What's the culture that I think that you're gonna keep creating? Because yeah that can ruin a team so fast so fast Even yeah top performer specifically even And I it's funny because you bring that up, you know that translate that I make it called the give a shit factor Right which is you know when I talk about sales and you know Morgan Ingram right I tell this story a lot You know he he was working for me and he was my first hire as when I was doing what I was doing and you know He was doing great. He was SDR SDR manager, right and he got a leveled off He was doing all these cadences and they were great and He came to me goes John. I just I'm not getting the results. I feel like I'm doing all the right things I'm not getting the results. What do I need to change? And I said Morgan your results are gonna change it to one thing does man He's like what and like until you start giving a shit Until you start giving a shit and I don't I mean I know you give a shit about this job But until you start caring about the client and then stop teaching you know treating them like a number to hit a cadence to send a Call and whatever this until you start thinking when it's a human who wakes up in the morning has to put their kid on the bus Has to drive in traffic has to go to work has to get their boss yelling at them has a million different Priorities on their plate that are more important than your shit Cole call until you start thinking of them that way man It's not kind of change and I and the same thing with interviews I can get I can sense the give a shit factor from a mile away But is this kid a a professional interviewer that's been on 10 interviews and has got the perfect answers Or did they give a shit enough to do and ask real questions? You know like come in prepared not just prepared but curious and that to me It's funny that you do the same thing I used to do which is when I would because everybody Interviews perfect right or they most some people best answers all this up But then you put them in a scenario coachable scenario and not what I would do as big all right whatever you're selling What do you what do you use to sell? Okay cool? I'm gonna go in the other room. I want you to call call me And and all I want you to do is get a meeting. I'm your perfect ICP. I'm your perfect ideal customer profile And all you're trying to do is get a meeting with what you currently sell right So they'd do it. Okay fine. I'd come back and give him feedback Well, good about I didn't care if it was a train wreck of a call But if I give him feedback I'd be like all right now. Here's the scenario I'm now working for my company. This is who I write and you're trying to sell my services to this whatever Have them make the call again Yeah, and I didn't care if it was awesome. I just cared if they paid attention to what I told me that no it's so true so true and I think What I love so much about the team that I've built here Caparis and just like previous teams that I've managed is exactly that They really give a shit about what we sell and they really give a shit about the team They all care about each other and they want to win together and they celebrate and they love it and Every product release that comes out everyone doesn't about it. They're like this is amazing There's just such an energy around Being at work being a team working together that I've never experienced before the way I have in previous roles and On that also like giving a shit feeling as well. It's so interesting because I've had people start That were hired by other people and my first conversation with them I'd be like no they were about higher And I instantly message and be like giving you a pre-warn in I think they're out the door in the next few months Oh, why got the feeling and I've been right about everyone. I think that if you're a leader You need to learn your radar You got to find the radar because once you have it It makes hiring and it makes letting people go so much easier because you just know it's the right decision There's been people I've let go that I love as people. I think they're amazing. They're fun. They're brilliant to work with great colleague They're no good for the role. They can't do the role. It's not for them As much as they want it to be for them because they want to make the money. They're not making the money because it's not for them So do them the justice let them go find something else like that's actually a good service of doing And yeah, I think that like just that as a whole is just so important Even like following into the conversation about what do I see working now hiring so important into that in that conversation like huge good team Huge difference huge. It's all the difference in the world I mean it really does and so that's why they you know the managers that outsource the hiring component of it to HR or somebody else or or just are like a cog in the wheel of yep, okay I did my interview whatever tell me who we're hiring I think that's just a fools Aaron. I don't care how busy you are if you're not making time to get to know The people that are gonna be on your team that you're gonna be managing and making sure that not only are they good at whatever They can do but are they do they align with your values? Do they check you know to the vibe check? Do they have a given sheet factor? Those pieces the subjective pieces that you can only gather by you know meeting somebody and spending some time with them Almost all my final interviews were at lunch We would just go to a bar and and we'd just like shoot the shit and it was like I just got to get the vibe check on you Because the vibe check is cool. We're good. But if the vibe check is not sorry So so with with your first because your first um was it Tip how do you pronounce that? It's probably that must have been a brutal cold call Um, so Say it so what what what made you choose that company like what was your criteria because you you've obviously picked a winner here With swap right? I mean there's something about what you guys are doing outside of being great at being an SDR and having a cool vibe This company is pretty badass and it's done some it's doing some super cool shit And it's always he's a little bit easier obviously to sell something that's cool as shit and hit the market at the right time right now So let's put that caveat over here But you know what were you looking for a lot of kids out of school They just look to your point they'll just look for a job and and and there's like I whatever okay fine I'm just looking for a job Was there something about that company that you said I want to work there or were you kind of a typical kid looking for interviews open opportunities How did how did that how did you find this? Yeah, so by the time I actually interviewed at Palty I'd been an SDR for three years Which in SDR land is a long time I was saying before that then I've had a few places um I was uh I was my first SDR. I was someone called query click which okay wasn't actually a sass solution It was like a paid ad agency very straight to roll um, and that's where I have my brilliant manager mark poor guy Um, and I loved working there the people that were brilliant But it wasn't a sass wasn't a sass solution They were like creating something but it wasn't actually ready for market yet And so I was like I need to move into another role So move into a different company which was influencer marketing so this was back in 2020 Beginning of 20 uh no end of 2020 was when I joined the influencer's marching so It like that's when in fact it was just transitioning That it was just really becoming something But it wasn't quite there yet The company I wore ahead of that time Unfortunately that actually did go bust in the end I think they just had an idea but maybe if they'd created it in like 2021 They might have seen a whole different type of uptick But unfortunately there was a little bit a couple of years too early So I left there and I went to somewhere uh That was called originally our tandem and it was HLTAC And I was a low NESTYR it was me and my lovely AE And I was just ringing HLT people Hey fancy you know you're giving good employee experience And it was about reviews and actually having like a good review process Because obviously everyone gets there By yearly or yearly reviews and it's really bad process that it does That's what the tech was It was amazing I loved it because it really allowed you to give good feedback Which is I think one thing that a lot of people miss they don't get good feedback So lots setting that solution it was brilliant And then when they got quiet No, okay and in an acquisition it goes one of two ways It's amazing or it's not great and unfortunately it was a great to me Yeah, usually it's the other side Yeah so I at this point been a BDR, STR for three years and I known about in the last year I wanted to go into management. I decided like okay I don't want to be an AE. I just looked at that role and honestly nothing about it appeals to me. I don't get it. I don't get you lot that love it. I think it's an awful role. Felt so gladeration. I just I love I love people. I love coaching. I love saying to somebody give that a go, they do it, they win. That really fuels me and obviously there's elements of that as an AE but like that's not really the job. The job is you know set up close. And I just knew I just knew I wouldn't like it. I myself were enough to know that so decided okay it's I want to go into management and that was not an opportunity for me at all at my place once it been acquired and so I started looking and I kind of knew there was a chance that I'd probably had to be an STR again because a lot of places won't hire you fresh as a manager if you've not done it before. Because it's a risk right which is fair enough. I got so much. The whole management is a whole management is a whole different ballgame. Teaching people how to do. That's why it's always horrible when I see companies promote like their best whatever to be the manager. Like usually the best of whatever it is is going to be a terrible manager because they're good for for subjective for just innate reasons that cannot be transferred in a lot of ways. You want I always look for the BB+ rep to be the manager the the one who can be the player. I was a BB+ right. Yeah same here. I will complete always I was never an A player. I was never the person that was smashing my target 200%. Like I did what I needed to do because I was doing a lot of stuff outside of work so I was posting on LinkedIn. I was a part of STRs of London. I was doing cementoring to some newer STRs and I was loving that. That's where I was like I was doing all my passion stuff there. And I basically met who had become my manager through the community. STRs of London. And I actually was interviewing for a different role that was like a team lead manager star role. And I'd messaged her because she was a manager and I went hey I've got this interview. I would just really love it if you gave her one so you were on my case study because you're in the role so you can help me make sure I'm on the right track. She was like yeah cool like no problem like let's take a look. Went through it. She was like yeah great like good luck. I was like thanks. She was like oh by the way like feel free to say no but I'm actually hiring its party like are you interested? And I was like sure they as well why not. And did this whole interview process which at the time was a manager interview process but I was told it was a senior SDR process but I was like it's fine if I've got to go like stay to go up that's cool like it's about long-term career and then got offered the job and then about three weeks before I was meant to start she rang me and was like you're joining as a manager by the way. And I was like what? Honestly like crazy crazy and so I joined as a manager and yeah like love it love it so much but those first six months were definitely the most terrifying six months my entire life though. I was going to say what like it's a shift right especially brand new don't have a lot of guidance I'm guessing they probably didn't have a manager training program in the organization to teach you how to be a manager. Were you a were you a player coach or were you a manager. 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Just a manager so if only ever be a manager I'd have been a player coach which is the right way as someone that's manager I literally cannot imagine people that play coaches like I don't know how you're doing it that is like you cannot be doing your job properly like I feel so sorry for you if that's your case because I don't have time as a manager let alone and fight a KPI my head as well that there was a call like but yeah so yeah I first six months for terrifying really struggled to take feedback on because it felt really personal which is one of my biggest lessons when I first went into management was learning how to take on feedback because it's different feedback as a manager like you've got somebody in your team being like oh I didn't like the way you did that and it's like oh but I did that to help you why would you mean you didn't like it I was trying to help you and it's kind of learning that everyone responds to coach too differently like the way you approach some people isn't how you'd approach everyone you could have the same structure but you have to adapt it so yeah that first like six months of management was such a such a journey and the reason I chose to pouty was it was the opposite of what I'd had before so they were quite established they were at this point series F like it was you know very far down you know been around for 10 11 years newer they were selling they were growing in London so it had a startup vibe but then it had all the security of a large business so it was just quite safe basically and I'd always been in these really small start-arts me one other person really scrappy and it was the honestly the perfect environment for for learning actually I got I did get so lucky I have to say I know that people make their own luck but that was luck like I you know who to thought one text about so I told you different role would lead me to where I am so yeah and then was therefore 18 months yeah year and a half and then they started going really into that big that big size they're like now they're a business and that's when the oh I can't just create a seat for sitting there you're a skiff and then you're like oh I'm finding that quite difficult actually I'd really quite like to sort of just try things and see if it worked yeah and that's where I got lucky again yeah so swabs obviously a rocket ship right now with what you guys are doing six to 40 skilled yeah yeah yeah yeah crazy let's talk now about what's working because there's a lot that's not and there's a lot of SDOs right now that are seeing conversion ratios go down you know conversations go away their metrics are getting crushed and and I think this we've in doctrine I feel bad to a certain degree because I think over the years we've we've gotten away from coaching we've gotten away from what I would consider the art of sales and we've taught too much on the process we've taught too much on the the tech stack right and not a way to have a conversation and now we're seeing the results of that because we've turned a lot of these unfortunately STRs and BDRs into robots and now quite frankly they're getting replaced by robots so with the advent of AI and how quote unquote good it is because I used to make fun of like personalization at scale like shut the fuck up just because you change the name the title in the industry doesn't mean it's gotten personalized right yeah but now yeah I was getting pretty damn good at the personalization picking up these trigger events so what are you I want to talk about your your approach to coaching but I want to get tactical right now on what what is working what's your approach to adjusting and being agile in this environment I know you said something about like you pick what your CEO's priority is for six months and you like kind of hyper focus on that with a whole team around it with messaging and LinkedIn and everything else but it's things are so dynamic right now and they're changing so rapidly what what structure you let's start there what structure do you have right now to test and see what is working and and make adjustments so that you know just keep you know doing the same thing over and over again yeah so the the way that my wraps get their their accounts is they don't find their own accounts their spoil and they get given accounts so every quarter which was switched into every six months they get new book of business but they get lock accounts they had in the previous quarter that either were really good conversations or they really want to keep this a limit they're allowed to lock a certain amount they lock those accounts they get a new fresh free book of business which is done by Revops so Revops go when they use all of their tools to scrape and do it I wish I could tell you what they built they all play in all the wonderful things happening but they go and they please accounts for us and the BDRs will have them and then they have a quick period where they have to go through them dispute anything that doesn't like it's actually a good account because it's still AI still makes mistakes and then that's the book of business and that's all they work for three months so my reps are also on coursely targets which very rare for BDRs most BDRs nest yards are monthly and I love it because it really allows them to fail because they're not stressed because EG take April right so in the UK we had a bank holiday and it was the ESA bank holiday so we had the Friday and the Monday off it is the 15th of April and they've not had a single full working week yet because of the way that it's just fallen for the month so because they have coursey targets it hasn't mattered that it's been a bit of a slower start, which is good for me. It's, you know, great for long breaks of time. So that's the first thing they do. I honestly think if you're a monthly business and something's not working, genuinely like going through a case study about switching to course leave, the A is a course you work on your RAPS be course leave. - Yeah, that's like, I've always professed that. You're putting too much pressure, too much pressure in short term. And that makes reps kinda do some shady shit. You know what I mean? - They're co-ordinated. - They co-ordinated. - They co-ordinated. - They co-ordinated. - To feeling like they don't have enough time and feeling like they're under a lot of duress because you have to remember, most of these people are under 25. - Right. - Like if we would take the average age of an SDRM BDR, they're probably 22, 23. You know, most of the time they're not in their late 20s or 30s because it's seen as an entry level role, which is not. - Well, let's talk about that for a second. Because when you tell kids, I always say, like, I lost everything in 2023. Like I went from 6 million and 20 employees to zero overnight. And I've always sold, you know, but I, you know, hardcore selling hadn't done in a while. Put my hat back on, went to work, call call, email, LinkedIn, partnerships, everything. You can look back, just February that year, I did 47 meetings in February and 70 meetings in Q1. And effectively forced myself back into existence. And I tell reps this all the time, I go, look, if I didn't have the skill that we're learning right now, and I wasn't a master at it, there's, I wouldn't be here right now. And if you master this skill, you'll never go hungry. And as an AE, I don't understand the mentality of an AE who is expecting leads to come to them and just close and they don't have to prospect. I tell reps all the time. I'm like, if I was a manager, which thankfully I'm not these days 'cause I get fired in a second. But if I was and I had an AE sit in front of me and say, well, John, the reason I didn't hit my target is because I didn't get enough meetings from my SDR. I think before that phrase got out of their mouth, I'd fire them. Because why would you want to depend on somebody else for your success? So the skill that SDR is in the muscle that they build. So how do you get your team to understand that and not rush through that process to get to be a real sales rep? Like is that an expectation you set up front? Is that what you do to coach them along the way and be like, be patient? This is not something you're gonna immediately jump to or try to skip through. How do you deal with that? 'Cause it's so rampant right now with reps being like, oh, I just can't wait to be an AE. I'm just doing the bare minimum here so I can get to the next level. It's like, ah, slow down. You're gonna have a 60 year career, a 50 year career. Right? - Stop rushing. It's so true. I say it from the start. Anyone who knows me knows that I believe that a good BDR SDR is in seat for at least 18 months. At least, I think that you should be at SDR BDR for two years. Because what you build in that role, exactly as you're saying, shouldn't leave. It should go into the rest of your sales career and the best BDR and AE relationships are the ones where the AE is working alongside the BDR and multi threading with them. They're the pairs that are booking the most meetings and having the most success. Because they're working together and the AE is happy to pick up the phone. It's happy to multi thread. They want to be another voice involved. They're like, hey, what do you need from me? Which can't be quiet? Or which account have you reached out to loads and different voice would help? That is perfect. The AE's that sit back, like what normally got promoted too quickly? Because so because they didn't get there enough and too, like, oh, they're lazy. They're not a good salesperson because you're right. If something bad was to happen, what would they do? Because their first reaction wouldn't be to pick up the phone. It would be blame. And that's what I stamp out of my BDRs immediately. One, don't ask me for information before a year. Don't even blink about it. It ain't happening. Like it's a policy. When I joined the business, I said to my VP, I was like, no, promote just before a year. Don't care how good you are. You could join this business and you'd be an SD officer two years. You just left sitting your seat for a year. You've got to prove to me you have consistency. Because I don't want up and down. I want steady. I want you to show me that you can do this job a long term. Because everyone can have a good quarter. No, everyone can have consistent good quarters. Like that's a good sales rep. So say that upfront. And then two, it's very much a case of like, I don't do excuses. I do solutions. Like don't tell me what the problem is. Tell me how you're trying to solve it. Come to me and be like, hey, Lauren, like I've tried this, it's in this. It's not working. I don't know what to do now. Great. Now I help you. But it's when people are like, oh, Lauren, that's not working. Did you check all the resources that are there that exist? Because like, are these questions asked all the time? Probably not. Go do that first. Then come back to me. Like, house himself reliance, like, learn, like realize you can go and find the answer. That you, I think looking through the notes, you would said you had said something that I'm a big believer in, like, know your numbers, like your conversion ratios and that type of thing as a rep. How do you teach them to know that? Because most reps take their $50 a day, okay, boss, I gotta go do that. But I'm always like, know your equation so you can manage up, right? Because then you become a manager's best friend. And the reason I say that is, as a manager, it's kind of hard sometimes when you're sitting in front of a rep and you don't know why they're not, you know, why they're struggling. So you tend to give your opinion of what they should try. And then I'm gonna go try that. And it's not gonna work because they're not you. And then next week, you're gonna give them another one. And they're gonna try that stuff and work. And then you're gonna get frustrated. Whereas if they came to you and said, hey, boss, I've been looking at my conversions for ratios. I mean, every time I get to talk to somebody who is kind of fits our profile, my conversion to a S2, you know, is off the charts, right? But I just, my convert, like, I got a 1% connect rate on my phone stuff here. Like literally I have to make a hundred phone calls to even get one person on the phone. If I could we work on that? Or I'm great at getting through gatekeepers. But once I get to somebody who actually is meaningful, like I tend to stumble, could you help me with that? Now you're my best friend because I, like, so how do you teach them the science of sales to understand those metrics so that they can own their own development in a lot of ways? - I think it starts with the manager. And I think that's where a lot of reps unfortunately are failed. Because if you don't have a leader that will supply you with the tools of how to learn that, then, you know, not every person is smart enough to go and find the arts of themselves, unfortunately. Like, there's some people that are very good self-starters, but not everyone is. We do need to be shown and how to do it. And I think for me, I've got my dashboard. I've got every report on that. They see all the activity. They see the core conversions. They see how the most average artist, like, disposition, sorry, that they keep coming up. They see where everyone's at the target. They don't hide that. Everyone knows. They see their conversion rate from meeting booked to qualified, qualified to close one. They've got all of that on the dashboard ready to go. Like, I just, it's provided for them, but it needs to look at it. And then you get tools that allow for easy for things. So we use Knooks for our power dialing and our parallel dialing. And within there, you can literally go and you can search. Like, what's the most common objection that I'm getting at the moment? And it tells them and then they can go and they can look into it. And I think that if you teach a rep to make data led decisions from the officer, then it's very easy for them to, like, become ingrained in that approach. Like, if they know, OK, like, I need to come to Lauren being like, yeah, like, I'm not getting enough pickups. Like, then I show me that. Prove it to me. Give me the data. Because one thing I also say about BDRs is they're very good at having biased decisions. They love to come to a conclusion. And they love to make decisions based on what they think and feel as well. They can feel exactly. Like, the amount of reps that I'd be like, OK, what are your top 10 accounts? They'll be like, oh, it's this one, this one. Why did you pick them? Well, like, that one's a really cool company. OK, but will they bias? Like, look at all of our customers, every single one. Do we have any customers that look like them? No. OK, so what makes you think you're going to be the one to completely change the trajectory of this business and get that booked in? You might do. But do you think he's going to close one? Like, do you think you're giving an opportunity to your AE? Or are you just booking a meeting? Because that's two different things as well. And I think the-- they don't know what they don't know. And I think it's telling them things like that. Like, build your top 10 based on what we know is a close one opportunity in our business. That's how you should build your top 10. Not just because you like the brand, or it's a cool name, or it's pig. Because that doesn't mean that the AE is going to be able to close it. That's just-- but that's just bias. And BDR's love that. So I think start from there. Start as a leader. And if you don't have a manager, because not everyone does, or they're managed by an AE, so like an AE is not actually a manager, they don't actually know what they're talking about, go and find this, go and ask for it. Hey, how can I get my conversions? I don't know how to build the report. Hey, like, what do I do? Like, go and ask questions. Be that person. Be annoying. Be sure. Because honestly, all that's doing is that point of managing up. It's showing the people up here that you care. So even if they're not actually giving you the answer, because they're too busy, they're going to go, oh, that was so interesting. Laura and actually asked me for that. That's really cool that she did that. She's obviously thinking quite long term here. and then the culture kind of becomes quite embedded. At least, starts what I've tried to do. Let's still wrap the dough, obviously. Yeah, of course. So what's working right now? What do you see work right now? I mean, obviously, email is, is, you know, people say it as a dumpster fire. I say, well, not really, because I still like really personalized relevant and timely stuff still stands out to me. I agree. You know, the garbage doesn't. So what are you finding is, is kind of right now, where you seem results? Yeah. It's in that hyper personalized quality over quantity when it comes to email, for sure. The emails that my reps are sending, there's not many. They're not bashing out 500 plus emails a week. They're probably sending 250, 300, because the emails are personalised. They've gone in and they are writing something that actually will be relevant to the person that they're reaching out to. We do a lot of persona-based messaging. So, okay, they're in for us, one of our main job targets is e-commerce. So they'll be like, okay, what is an e-comperson caribou? Like, what do they actually give a shit about? Okay, they care about customer conversion. They care about the experience on the website. Okay, so when you're writing your message, it needs to be in the point of view of what the e-comperson is going to care about, not about what we like in our product. It's classic old-school sales. That's not going anywhere. Tell me the pain that they're probably experiencing. Talk about what other people are doing and then say, by the way, we actually help you fix this. It's one of the other things on your radar. It's something you're exploring this year. You know, open and in call to action. Don't start whacking your meeting and then can't straight away. No one cares. No one wants to meet with you and they don't even know who you are yet. It's that consultative storytelling messaging. And I think what's so funny now is you know in something's AI. Everyone knows it now. I think this time last year, people still didn't quite caught an on to one AI email. What was I think you can still get away with it? You can tell AI. You can tell it in a LinkedIn post and the comments in an email. You can tell if your mates takes your back as AI. You're like, why are you using full-conch activity for that? Exactly. Come on. It's so obvious. Like, I, nothing makes me like, cruel more when a rep sends me an email. Hey, can I get some feedback on this? And I read it and I'm like, why are you asking me to give chat to your feedback? I don't want to give chat to your feedback. I want to give you feedback. Stop like, I think AI is fantastic for writing a sequence, put a lot of depth into it, you know, going a little bit too much detail, probably over sharing, you know, more than 150 words, etc. And then go in, please take what I've put and make it more concise. Then it's your tone, your language, the way you speak, but concise, shorter, more punchier, perfect. That is what AI is fantastic for. I hate it when people go in and they get it to write the entire sequence and they just add the odd bit in there. No, it doesn't work anymore. That's that's the opposite of what I see working. And then the phone, the phone doesn't go out of fashion. I have noticed a drop in Connect Rates. In fact, I was literally looking at this from Q1. So our Connect rate from Q1 was 8%, which had gone down from, I think it was 12% in Q4. So we had a drop off, but our meeting rate went up. So by 2%. So we've actually gone up every quarter on meeting rate, whilst our Connect rate has been dropping. So what that's telling me is that, okay, we're not having as many conversations, but when we do, they're good conversations. So, okay, get them on the phone. You've got a good chance of converting that now. That's really great. So now I just get them on the phone. That I think is the problem with the time. There's just hanging left, right, and center. I get average five call calls a day. I'm in back to that meeting to all the time and manager. So I don't not answer because I don't want to talk to you because I very proactively say that I will answer a call call if I can't really talk to you. But don't, I just can't answer half the time. Most of the time, you're calling me in the middle of my work day. I'm in a meeting. Why have you not called me in my lunch break? I don't get any call calls between 12 to 1. That's probably like the guaranteed time of me being able to pick up and no one calls me. There are a lot. Like the reps that are going to book a meeting are going to call call then. And I think on the phone point, what's not working is those generic call call openers. Hey, have you got 30 seconds? That's not working as much anymore. But the one I hate so much as a sales leader is, hey, can I take 30 seconds and know that you probably hate call calls? Yeah. Well, this is a call call. It's a meeting manager who is proactive on LinkedIn talking about call calling and you think I'm going to hate call calls. And I'm quite mean. I do literally say I go, did you do any research on me at all? And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. And I like, well, I think if you had, you'd have known that the one thing I do not hate is call calls. So I think you need to maybe like look a little bit deeper into your prospects for your call call though. Sorry, sorry. But yeah, I think that's what openers, what openers are working for you now. Going in with a bit of research at the start. So be like, but how do you, like literally, because I break it down by the intro, the reason for your call, the call, like, so that intro, that five seconds, hello, do you go straight into, hey, there's a John Barrows or J.B. Sales and I'm calling because I saw something on your website, or do you do the pattern interrupt, or do you kind of permission based sell? Like what's, what's the flow of that first hello? Yeah, I actually know them all do a little bit differently because I think it's really important for the rep to do what feels comfortable because that's what makes the star of a call call better. But a lot of my reps do, hey, how are you? Which most of all, hey, love it whenever I say that, they're like, oh, what did that? What's for them? Again, I always say if it works for you, do it, right? You know, and it's also regional and this is where like, as I train intros and co-calling, I'm like, please take this from a US perspective here because this is what works and doesn't because I, you know, I sold the vast majority of my career. I sold into Boston, in New York, the Northeast of the United States. And when I used to say, hey, how you doing today, if I didn't get hung up on, I'd be like, fine, you know, fine, what? And it'd be like, I'm sorry to bother you. I'm sorry, right? Because, because I didn't actually my problem with, hey, how you doing today was, I realized I didn't give a shit because I wouldn't, sometimes I wouldn't wait for the response. I'd be like, hey, how you doing today? I was wondering if you could point me in the right, you know, something like that. It's actually disingenuous for me. But different regions, different, you know, works and different. Yeah, whereas I think, as Brits, we just said, we're always like, yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you? And like, you hear the tone. The tone will be like, who are you? But we'll be on so because I was just so British. But what we then always do is go into that sort of like value prop, but say, but like, no, the reason I gave you a call today, appreciate it. That the blue was that I noticed that on your website, you're just curious, like, how come as you guys are doing that today? Like, what was the reason? So like, always ending them with the question. What I've noticed doesn't really work. And some of my reps still do it. And I'm really trying to stamp it out. Is it like, hey, it's Lauren Corning from SwapCommerce. How are you? Sorry, Corning from where? Every time. Every time. Because they don't know who we are. And then you go, swap commerce. And obviously, they're like, swamp. Why? Why? Why? What? It's no sense to them. Because they're like, why are you saying swap? Why are you swapping? I don't get it. And it happens every time. And then they spend the first 20 seconds of the call call being like, yeah, swap. Stop. Stop doing that. You're giving me PTSD. Because I honestly, when I was making 400 Koga, like, back of the day, like the company was thrive networks, T-H-R-I-V-E. So I'd be like, hi, this is John Behrs with thrive networks. So you're doing today that be like, drive, try, I'd be like, no, thrive, T-H-R-I-V-E. And to your point, like, now I'm just like, oh, yeah. And it's ruined it. You've lost it. Because then they're just the, oh, great. It's the call call. The water resistance is straight up. They definitely don't want to talk to you anymore. Because they're like, pretty, another set, like, doesn't work. Like, go, go straight in. They don't care where you're calling from. They care why you're calling. I think it only works if you've got a household name that you're calling from. If you're calling from Salesforce, everyone knows Salesforce. If you're a salesperson, that's a different situation. Like, if you're working for a big player, most of us aren't, or we feel like we're big players, but we're still getting there, you know? Like, I think, yeah, that's, so that's also something that's not working that I'm trying to do. Even, even early days of Salesforce, by the way, when Salesforce wasn't really a household name, when I was training them, they would call and say, hi, this is John from Salesforce. And people literally say, I already have a Salesforce don't, like, what is, and so even then, but now, obviously, a household name. I think a lot of people, so that's why I don't mind this, this one where it's like, hey, these are John Barrows from JB Sales, are you familiar with this? That one, because you get an answer either way, right? You could be like, well, yeah, oh, well, you probably know me for the prospecting stuff. You know, I also do negotiation, right? Or no, I have no idea. Well, real quick, the reason I'm calling is I noticed, right? So that intro, though, is an interesting one for the team to, I always split test and try different ones for different people to figure out what works for you. And that's exactly it. I think the every, every rep sounds different. It sounds natural. Like, I've got someone who's from New Zealand. And she does not understand British tone of voice. It's fantastic. Some will be like, quite, they'll be in that like British like, why are you talking to me? And she's just like, t/t/t/t and she keeps on the phone and she always has really good because they're like wow this person keeps talking to me because she's just not glued in on the fact that they're being rude to her. I want to be listening to her call course and I'm like did you not realize that they wanted you to like get off the phone and she's like no and I'm like that is a superpower and I love that. I just want to do it. I call that the you know finding Nemo you know that movie right. Oh yeah. You know Dory right. Just keep swimming just keep swimming. I have some friends who like don't let anything bother them. They just kind of keep going with the cut and eventually they break the person down to the point where they're just like fuck I gotta talk to this person because they're either just so cool or so happy. I think one thing that we do sorry that that is so unique and I don't know I haven't seen it much is LinkedIn social selling is yeah that's gonna ask you about that so because yeah and let's let's talk about because the there's very little short-term benefit to personal brand building and that's why so many people don't do it and quite frankly it takes a long fucking time to to really like it takes a lot of two comments three comments four likes to get to a point where it's like oh I'm starting to see some traction here so how do you justify social selling to a SDR who is is just trying to hit their number and thinking that you know if I post who gives a shit and and also what do you coach them on what to post because most of them have this imposter syndrome like what who am I to say anything and you said something earlier about your management experience that I think that that you were like same thing who am I I've never managed before but people would have loved to hear the journey yeah so could you talk to me about why an SDR 22 doesn't know shit should be posting on LinkedIn and what that perspective is and then what you think they should be posting yeah so when I first joined the business there was a few of them that were naturally posting on LinkedIn they'd like started doing it they were doing some fun videos and I joined and I think one of the things that attracted my VP to me was the fact that I had a personal brand I think he liked that he thought great I've got some people on the team that we've hired that are already a bit interested in that they're going to get a manager that already does that so that's that's quite a nice energy so I join and the first thing I say to my VP is like okay like you want them to post more on LinkedIn I want them to post more on LinkedIn what does sales people respond to money we have to incentivise so they're incentivise they get paid we paid them so the incentive is if you post 20 videos on LinkedIn in a quarter you get an additional two thousand pounds and in US dollars that's like 3,300 yeah yeah top on your paycheck that makes a difference my VP is in the UK again eight grand a year to post on LinkedIn basically okay so now what do you post what what are they post because it can't just be swap and look how awesome we are and here's our new product release which is what so many fall into right like oh look at how great our company is nobody gives a shit about how great your company is so what you coach the lot of such a great question so the way that we do it is 14 of your posts have to be related to the company in some way okay and that's that's very broad so that can be interviewing your colleagues about like how's like what's work if you right now like what do you love right now we've seen the like jokie tiktok trends where it's been like tell me who's like got the best fashion sense oh john go to john john who's got that's right okay because it's about creating a moment so it's the same as like it is on the social media you want people to watch it and have a feeling about it they're like oh this is fun like this is cool so things like that then when it comes to talking about the product it's not about sitting down in front of the camera with your mic being like our latest product has this feature in this feature you are literally doing an outbound email via video so you're like you know been chatting to loads of people recently who really you know they really experienced this problem and this problem and you know one thing that we do at swap is we fix that the da da da da so they're talking about pain in all their videos and then on top of that it is things like what have you learned this week first like you know what's like a learning you're having are you doing a marathon we love a day in the life like our reps love a day in the life come to swap because not only is that good for personal brand it's good for employee brand it shows the vibe like and it's so funny because they all get they get an odd hate comment like oh it's like you do nothing to work and then I comment as I go actually as their manager I can tell you they do loads of I'm like go look at my link to it if you want to do it for years a week mate like my life so I think it's breaking it up into sections and I think you'll know this as some of the posts as well it's there's work content there's development content there's personal content that's how I broke up my sections of my content like come up with ideas so that's what I teach them that's what they get taught and then I never have creative license with it basically and they just they just go out and I do it and I think I actually I bring it up in my in the interview process I go oh have you looked at on LinkedIn by any chance and you can either see the panic set in their eyes or you can see them go oh yeah yeah like you guys in those are videos right yeah what do you think of the videos oh yeah like I saw on your LinkedIn like I go great did you go and look at any of the BDR's meetings and then again I wait and I see if they say yes and I go okay like anyone in particular that you really liked I go I you know you got got catch my little bit um the most the people that I've hired have all gone in and they can name they can go yep I saw this person's content like so this person's content and I go what did you think what do you think about that like how did it make you feel oh like I thought it's really fun I thought it's really cool did it would you do it and I'll be honest with me would you do it and I can tell if they're genuine they say yes or not you get the vibe you're like okay like they're actually saying yes or they're just saying it because I want the job but I think that's something that if you want people to do person right if I'm supposed to about it you've got to you've got to bring it into the culture and you're right there's it's long time getting you know we didn't start seeing meetings fly in because of it in the first I would say probably like six months but last year easily like I wish I could give it accurate percentage but like there's a good chunk of our ops that came because of personal personal brand people would say like oh yeah like I've seen like some of your colleagues like on LinkedIn that's what I videos about your products we've had a really really big pretty good household brand message one of the link like one of the rep being like hey I've been following your content for ages on LinkedIn it sounds like you could help us can we and they're massive and we were like oh my god like this is insane all from posting a day in the life like that's what it's all I like it relevant because it shows the humanity it shows that you're not just salesperson you're a real person that works this company there's value behind what you're saying people love working here and I think that when you want to work with a solution you want to know that the people like that solution to yeah and I think that for every person that the posts you can tell they love our solution anyone that works here like you can get that energy from it which I think is it's so nice so yeah that's fantastic yeah I'm gonna go back to the caveat that I put on this on this I've like you work our kick ass company this guy sounds like it's got leadership aligned as well with that it's not like a old school CMO who's like no you can't post that you know marketing is right you can't have a line off. Yeah I think you need buy in you need buy and I think that's you know if I was a rep right now I'd be looking for that I'd be looking for okay you as a manager great but how does executive leadership feel about posting on social like what's the CMO's you know perspective on this and you know because everyone's going on about AI right AI like AI is taking over like did it yeah call bias not going anywhere great no one cares but who's becoming our new leaders yeah many laws and Gen Z where have they come from the internet the internet is important to them they love it they love being able to have fun with it they love creating city videos like it means something to them so if you alienate that from them in their work environment that's not going to go down well I think we're going to and I think this whole attitude about like Gen Z a lazy Gen Z don't care well I've got a whole team of Gen Z and I can tell you it's the polar opposite my Gen Z they care they want to make money they want to be good they want to succeed but they want to do it in a fun way they want to have fun at work they want to be creative they want to feel like they can learn and grow and make mistakes and that's in all industries I don't think that's just because we're in tech where like there is a bit more like fluidity in it I think that you're probably having the same thing in very old school traditional and she's like banking think about the amount of people now that go on social media and do videos and like what investing actually is how's it actually manage your money like they people want to learn this stuff and they care so if you are a leader and you're not thinking about how you can embrace social media content into your you know younger work forces day-to-day like you're missing a trick because that's going to make them feel really valued for sure and I think that's the that's to me as a good leader versus a not like somebody who recognizes that the way that worked for them is not necessarily the way it's going to work for like look I'm 50 right when I go when I got into sales, it was, "Give me my territory, "give me my quota, and please get the fuck out of my way." I don't need the fun shit, I don't need the foosball stuff, I don't need to be, feel like I'm getting invested in, I just need to go and make money. And I think there's so many kind of senior leadership now that still have that old school mentality of, this is, oh, you have to do these things. It's like, dude, just level up right now. Like, let's just understand that this is a totally new world. And if you can't adapt to these kids coming up and meet them where they are, you're never gonna evolve as an organization, you're probably gonna fail more often than not. So it sounds like you've aligned, you've got a pretty cool crew that is aligned from the top down and a good product and a good mentality across the board. So Lauren, this has been great talking to you, I really appreciate it. - And yeah, I've loved it. Thank you so much for having me. - Where can people learn more about the team, about you? I mean, obviously you're all on social, you know, social all over the place, but if people were listening to them, looking forward to it. - Yeah, get on LinkedIn, you'll find me. So yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, Lauren Reeves. I also have a little podcast as well. Right, I chat about my experience with another BDR manager. It's just, it's cool to hear. - It's cool. It can't take your car in there right now. - Can't take your car right now, yeah. Which I think was his sister that came up with that. Well, good thing of a name and his sister was like that. Anyway, so there's that. I've got a TikTok with hardly any followers, which is just Lauren Reeves again. So if you want to add me on Merck Rackon, that'd be lovely. So yeah, that's what you'll find me, but definitely LinkedIn, that's where I'm definitely most proactive. - Perfect, well Lauren, thank you again for coming on. I really appreciate it. - Thank you so much. - And everybody, hopefully you enjoy the conversations as much as I did. Like I said, all these podcasts go out there and make somebody smile today, because no matter how bad your day is going or how bad you think it went, if you make somebody smile today, you know you had a good day in the world, and it's a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much. and we'll see you on the other side.