What the 1960's Did to the Catholic Church & Why the Tide Is Finally Turning (Fr. Perricone) | Ep. 574

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And two days before ordination, I was called into the director's office and told I wasn't going to be ordained. Two days. Whoa. You had breakfast with mother Teresa? I could remember once. I said, "Mother, you've been in the worst sectors of the world imaginable." Tell me, of all the things you've seen, what is the worst evil you've come across? She looked at me without missing a beat, and she said, "Wow." So Father Perricone, you joined seminary in 1970. Is that correct? That's correct. Actually, that would have been major seminary, Matt. I entered in 1968 in what those days were called, the Divinity School. That would be men who would have gone to college, but knew they had a vocation at the priesthood. They were settled into this two-year program where they would do accelerated lacan in Greek. And then after that two-year period of 1970, they would go to the major seminary for six years of philosophy and theology. Yes, so 68 I started actually. So here's the question, because I was born in '83, not that anybody asked me, but there you are. But you're joining the seminary and becoming ordained while thousands of men are leaving the priesthood. I don't mean to start off this interview on a Debbie Downer note, but what was it like going through seminary during that turbulent time? Let's do it. In 1968, the church was just beginning her meltdown. You might remember that this was the year that Father Charles Curran mounted his descent against the newly published and cyclical Omande Gvete, my Paul VI. He rallied all the theology professors at Catholic University of America and throughout this country, which represented the first major rupture with Rome in this country. And I remember that summer so well, I remember when the encyclical was promulgated on the Feast of Saint Angeloid 26th. And that was really my first delving into the study of moral theology, because I had to determine how would it be that I could defend this encyclical to people who were coming. Already before then, there was deterioration, splitting happening at the seams by bishops doing nothing terrible, terrible abuses on every level happening in their dioceses. And so I entered under that cloud. And I remember so well that my class, which consisted of 53 candidates. So there was the full erosion having taken place yet. And clearly, there was a split between those seminarians, 25 or so, who wandered here strictly to the Catholic faith, especially the Catholic litigy, particularly the Latin mayor. The Latin mayor, which had just been stopped or was about to be stopped in the 70s. And the other half, who had jumped on the bandwagon of this free willing modernism, which had become so or Quran at that time. And so from the inception of my time at the seminary, there was civil war. And I was in the midst of that civil war, I was happy to be in the midst of that civil war, finding it from other church, especially for the mass. And then 70, we entered the major seminary for us, a macular conception seminary, which was in the beautiful hills of Marwan, New Jersey. And the atomic explosion of doctrine less Catholicism, and the complete demise of moral theology was full blown when I answered in 70. But it's such a sad, but I think, helpful way to put it, the doctrineless Catholicism, because I grew up in the 80s and 90s. And it fell by that time. It felt like that. Like, what do we believe? And it was like, "Well, God likes you and He loves you." Like, awesome. Anything else? Exactly. Exactly. And so I entered, all ready to do battle into a. See, this is really remarkable, because often when these things take place, we can't see them clearly until well after the fact. But you did. You were able to see that this was not good and you were happy to fight. Witness at the revolution, I was. Now, how were you prepared to see it so clearly? Did you? Well, good mentors. I remember I had grown up, as I mentioned in my book, Matt, in the Golden Age of Catholicism, the being of the 50s. And so, everyone in the United States of America, every student in every Catholic grammar school, over two million of them, received the copy of the Baltimore Catechism in the second grade. And were tutored in that until they graduated in the eighth grade. But the time they graduated, Matt, they would have known the entire Baltimore Catechism by heart. In addition to that, I grew up with the traditional mess, serving it, and completely in love with it. So many of the young, the men in my grammar school, and this was the case in all grammar schools throughout the country, were all inspired by these spiritual titans that we called Father, dressed in their casics, their armor. We wanted to be like them. But these other people were also brought up with this Baltimore Catechism and the traditional and massacres. What happened? That's a mystery normally to God. I could remember a priest friend of mine who was ordained in 1966. So he would have been in the seminary in the -- looked at calm years, because even though the council had taken place, that bombs had not yet hit. And he told me that by the end of his time, heresy was beginning to creep in. Ever so slightly, by professors who thought they were being terribly up to date and no. This was the spirit of the council which was ended. And he remarked to me, "How could it be that I was raised on the Baltimore Catechism and the doctoral formation of the other mess, as well as my classmates and his class consisted of 80?" And they rejected the faith and I did not. To this day, Matt, I can only tell you that it was the grace of God, because we were all formed identically by this mighty engine that was the Roman Catholic Church up until 1965. So to that question, I don't know. In the seminary in 1970, we were still permitted to wear casics. They were not obligatory. Again, half the seminary wore the castix, the other half did not. And there had begun the loosening of discipline, a satical discipline, the discipline of study, the discipline of, in every way that used to dominate seminaries. That was crumbling, little by little. And we, I could remember that there was still remnants of it. So meals were very formal, the faculty sat on their platformed tables, and the seminaries sat in this large refractory, and only one at every table was designated to be the one who bought the food to the table from where the nuns would prepare the kitchens. It was a discipline that I loved. A tradition that I loved, that began to fray over the six years that I was there. But what was happening in the classroom was cataclysmic, because I saw my very eyes, priests, most of whom no longer believed at the doctor of the church. I remember that the one or two priests were still faithful when you could tell that because they were their castix. We flocked to them for which we got in trouble. Seminary faculty decided that they had to begin weeding out any candidates who were showing any kind of partiality to the Roman Catholic Church as it existed before 1970. And they had no avenue of dismissing us. So they adopted the communists method in the Soviet Union, where if you didn't conform you're considered to be mentally ill. And so all of us were not conforming to the heresy in the classrooms, which was ubiquitous. Could you give me an example of a heresy taught in the classroom or the most exaggerated thing you heard? Oh my God. Oh Lord Jesus Christ is not God. You know teaching Catholic seminaries. Yes. In scripture. That was where most of the damage was done. Matt, because the script professors were saying, you know, the way the church had interpreted things like the Divinity of Christ, the performance of his miracles, the perpetual Virginia of the Mother of God. These were all, this represented in abilities to understand the contemporary ways of seeing a text. And then the script professor going to say, so therefore the church is obligated now to jettison these. This is 1970. You couple that, Matt, with going into moral theology class where the entire moral heritage, patrimony of the church was rejected in order to proper a whole new, no holds barred immorality. Seminary to being forced to swallow this. And the few of my friends and I who battled them in the classroom, were all sent to psychiatrists because they declared that we were mentally ill for stubbornly holding on to a paradigm of the church that was damaging to Roman Catholics. that's how they put it, clearly by 1972, that it percolated down to the private lives of the seminarians. If Christ is not divine, if He never intended to establish a Catholic Church, what am I doing here? What am I doing here? What are my doing here? Social worker. Is that what I'm called to be? Well, do you want to say no long, oh, sure. They no longer believed in celibacy. Okay, well, there you go. So there was a hemorrhaging, many, many priests who left the church and married. But what was left were young men who were not interested in ever marrying women, even if they had an opportunity. And how did that happen? You're saying they were homosexual? Yes. And to this day, I don't know how it happened. It's a very good question. I've often asked some of my priest friends. How could suddenly in 1970, 60% of the seminary hours within, in, were subscribing to that agenda? I don't understand it to this day. If you had to guess, because you're saying prior to the revolution that took place after the council, this wasn't the case. No, no. So just a bit of so strict mat up until about 1966, right before I entered seminary, that seminarians, when they were in their rooms, cells, were obliged to keep the doors open. And if there were any visitation of seminarians to other seminarians, which was only restricted to certain hours of the day, they would have to talk to their friend over the threshold. It couldn't even enter the womb of the seminarian. This is about the church's way of putting as many safeguards upon any stray moral infractions that they may be considering that along with the strict formation of spiritual direction and strict moral theology kept that bay, the conupressants that lies in all of them. And it worked very well. Men were cultivated in the way of perfection before 1966. Gradually, that was all relaxed. And by 1972, not only could the big visitation in the rooms of the seminarians, but with the doors closed. And things were happening. And six out of ten seminarians, to the shock of people like me came from a very pious Italian Catholic family and a wonderful parish in Jersey City, New Jersey. And this was incomprehensible to me, but it was happening before my very eyes. So the only thing that we could do was be a vanguard against it, for which we were punished. How did you make it through seminary? Great difficulty. It's unpleasant to even talk about it, man. But they tempted stopping me and other seminarians of my Catholic mind all the way through to my ordination. I suppose they considered me to be a rain leader, because I would gather together seminarians and I would instruct them how to refute professors. For some reason, I was able to take control of the seminary bookstore. By the time I was two years away from ordination, three years away from here, which gave me an opportunity not only to supply professors, but to require texts, but also to fill the shelves with books I thought they should be reading. Well, you could imagine what I had on those shelves. I remember one title that I had ordered. You are probably familiar with this Dr. Ludwig Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogman. And if I have to have this into the hands of these young men, so they can go into the classrooms, little did I know I was, you know, needing my own noose, because one of the dogmatic professors who don't believe in dogma came to this classroom one day and said, I heard that John Perricone has ordered the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma and it's on his shelves. I would tell all of you not to buy it, because this is simply a relic of a dead pest. Now, if you have seminarians being told this time after time after time, it would make con cupasins. Yeah. Very easy. Well, it appeals to the pride too, because you have the intelligentsia, or at least those who are on top, basically looking down their nose very condescendingly at this old relic of the past. And so they were looking at the relic as being 16 over 1900 years of Christianity. Yeah. So I am really excited to tell you that I have partnered with Theratokos Rosaries. These are, without a doubt, the most beautiful Rosaries I have ever seen in my life. Theratokos Rosaries sent me one maybe about a year ago or so. And I remember being absolutely blown away, you probably heard me talking about it. I've sent one to my mom and dad and uncle. I give them to some of the guests that we have. And everyone who receives one is blown away. These are just a total different caliber. 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I remember what moved me so much is when I sent this to my I won't say who because I don't want to call them out But a family member who doesn't actually pray the rosary they started praying the rosary and I think it's honestly because it's so Beautiful and so sacred looking so again go to dailywire.com/shop to pick one up today and Thank you to Thaotocos Rosaries for partnering with us Okay, so this took place in a lot of places around the world almost every seminary so yeah So here's the question why not think that the Catholic Church is not the Church Christ established then because I mean you've got our Architecture becoming ugly doctrines becoming muddied the seminarians all this stuff going on This revolution that took place there might be Catholics who are watching this going alright So all of that is an excellent argument against this Catholic Church Therefore the Catholic Church is to be found in Eastern orthodoxy or some you know Coptic faith but not not this Roman Catholic thing precisely or being taught that Recently Abu Dhabi dark men signed by Yeah, we could go on things predecessor. Yeah, that all of them just are equal. That's what they would be to like that your essential role as priest is to be a Mover of social change. Yeah, I Cannot tell you Matt how deeply this penetrated half the seminary So they were going to go out and be social catalysts For every kind of avant-garde and run group and they did yeah, I You're bringing back memories that are so unpleasant, but it was a very unpleasant period. What was more than unpleasant? And they recognized that they had to obliterate Everything that bespoke the church before 1970 as you just mentioned. It's architecture How to be gotten rid of it's music. It's music. How to got rid of It's the vestments of the priest. Yeah, how to be gotten rid of I Remember that all the seminary were I attended Had closets upon closets upon closets in the sacristy opera and lower Filled with vestments that could be in museums. Yes, this would be every Catholic church, but you couldn't wear them Now I could you not wear them? They I will never forget Them hiring a dubster as lodges this room and Seminaries were tied to take all of these vestments and it took them hours to put them in the dubster Again, we are thinking of vestments that were music quality And if you all my friends said do you see what they're doing? Let's try to rescue some of them the the dumbest was in front of the Christ the King Chapel and we stationed ourselves near the dubster and When they were looking we were taking vestments and they caught us and They said put them back on the dumpster. We said no. We'd like to send them to the missions and They said to me. I'll never forget No priest ever should wear stuff like this again. They used Amwalk a course or expression for that and We watched these vestments be destroyed So you had to have the entire raising of the churches that existed with all It's architectonic symbolic structure Having to with the liturgy having to the style of priests and the way they dressed and lived and So for instance The castle was no longer required when I was there was abolished soon after I left was attained but they allowed Them to be wearing this new invention called a clerical shirt You've seen it. This is a little white tear in the middle. It could be easily removed and Some of them were wearing that then they decided that was not enough of a Separation from the church before I named his Gistify so they started wearing different colored shirts Not black ones now your audience might think Oh, that's so minor. It's not minor man Symbols are not minor Symbols constitute our existence as human persons They communicate everything we love and everything we believe And so when someone would deliberately not wear black which was the the dress of Catholic priests for a thousand years They did that intentionally With an expressed purpose in mind and I know that for a fact They wanted to create a disequilibrium man Where ordinary Catholics would look and say Well, I see we're into we don't ever remember seeing this and it was their way of saying because everything has changed Down is up up is down It's funny because just about a year ago I saw a Bishop in this country was made a prominent name for himself man wearing a Gray white clerical shirt You know This is like a bullseeing a red flag for me. I know That why they do this see but I also think there's got to be a distinction made between at the beginning when these things were Implemented and why they were implemented and then 50 years on like I think it's fair to say that the reason a Catholic priest might be wearing a white shirt with a collar He's not necessarily trying to make the same statement that those you were dealing with wouldn't you say maybe not but nonetheless He does know it's a departure from the tradition especially from a bishop who is educated enough because he's quite bright and Would recognize that this is not the tradition of the Catholic Church wearing a different color clerical uniform But you see this was happening right after the during the council mad if you see pictures of Our beloved Benedict XVI He along with many other Germans and French pédite Were attending the council dressed in suit and tie Mm-hmm now again White one might say oh what is the difference it is a huge difference mad They knew in 1963 when they were attending the councils the sessions of the council that they were breaking from a Millennial tradition and they were wanting to telegraph something and That came to bear fruit because what they were telegraphing was carefully designed I Was ordained in 76 Up until my ordination they attempted to stop me from being ordained we made a they still had the tradition of before priesthood the Deacons would make a seven-day retreat at the seminary In fact, I had tried to invite Van Wolfhorn sheen and I still have the letter we could kindly graciously sit he couldn't attend and And then from that retreat we would go to the cathedral be ordained and two days before ordination I was called into the rectus office and told that wasn't going to be ordained two days Parents were all set to see me at the cathedral Oh my goodness What was one of those mouth they gave no reason they said they thought me to be They didn't say this but they entered do Louvian they thought I would be a menace to the Catholic people with my ideas I'll never for going to the chaplain sobbing Afraid to call my mother father I plead with the mother of God. Please don't let this happen. I didn't see how it could not happen Gold me in the very next day with the eve of ordination He said we've attempted to devise some kind of reason why you should not be ordained and we can't come up with one that would be convincing To the Archbishop who is a heresy archbiteril eogarrity So I'm going to have to ordain you But we know Who in this seminary are your friends? And if you attempt to make any disruption by disruption they may introduce in the Catholic faith into the parish we are signing you They will be disciplined Wow Mafia style tech. Exactly. You know what I'm gonna kill you will be gonna clear your family. Mm-hmm I I went on to be ordained and I was sent to a Wonderful parish which I'm sure they were very embarrassed of always maintaining the faith and It was and That was a glorious time for me those 10 years and then I decided to take up my studies and I did and I started teaching I want to pose that objection to you again Why not think that all of this chaos is an argument against the Catholic Church Why? Because it sounds pretty drastic. It is drastic. What you've shared. It's chaotic. It's true. It is. But it may not be. How is this? This sounds like an argument against Catholicism. Why isn't it? Because I knew that the faith would be triumphant. It had to be triumphant. I knew that the one true faith as it had been proclaimed by the Catholic Church for two thousand years was the right and true faith. And I was willing to suffer anything in order to have that Catholic faith revived again. I never from moment that had any doubt in my mind, the kind of doubts that were being deliberately cultivated, the seminary and every rectory and every diocesan chance or office. I knew they were all wrong. Not because I was right, but because our Lord was right. That the Catholic Church was right. And just as martyrs were called to defend the faith, especially those wonderful English martyrs, I was called to do the same. And while I could not hold back the title wave that was coming against me, I had to stand there against the title wave and somehow y'all stopped in the small little ways I could, given my little parish and given the classroom I finally went to. And giving the lectures I attempted to begin to cultivate in many parts of the odd diocese, yes, small clusters of persecuted, confused Catholics were being robbed of everything. But why could do all these little things? And I pretty much the beginning had no support. I now see that there is a rising of young men that want to take their place saying to the enemies of the church, stop within the church. And it gives me such joy. Yeah. Joy is not the word. I'm elated. They make me feel such strength. There were none of them in 1976 when I was a dandex, except a few of my friends. What's funny is you think that the revolution would have squashed it all down. And now it's out of memory. And now we've got these new Catholics. And so they'll get on with the program. But quite the contrary, we see young people desperate for tradition, desperate for beauty, desperate for sound, solid doctrine. This has to be a work of the Holy Spirit. Because there's simply no other way of explaining it. It shouldn't be for all the reasons you just talked about when there are bishops who are publicly attacking the faith and attacking the mass, not only the traditional mass, but ordinary mass. Since I'm dying, he's not even permitting Catholics to take up the reverential position of receiving our Lord on their knees as the church had done for millennia. Something, and yet in spite of this frontal assault, these young men are rising up. It makes me very emotional, man, to see it. Starting something new can be terrifying. I remember when I launched Pines of the Quine as 10 years ago. I had no idea what I was doing. I had some idea. It's just not much. I kept thinking, what if no one listens or what if I make a fool of myself, which I've definitely done. But point is, starting something new like a podcast or business online can be overwhelming. You need a degree in web design, marketing, possibly wizardry. But that's where our sponsor Shopify comes in. It's the platform trusted by millions of businesses, big names, and folks just getting started to bring their ideas to life. 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Just $28 provides one ultrasound. $140 sponsors five ultrasounds for mothers in crisis. Every dollar goes to help save babies and share the hope of the gospel. To donate dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby, that's pound 250 baby or you can visit preborn.com/pints. That's preborn.com/pints. Now, you've written an excellent book of essays. Your essays have been collected into a book called Tortures Against the Abyss, which I believe was published with our friend, Piquos Nefsky's. Yeah, friend, yes, Peter. Yeah. So we'll put a link to that below, but I have to say I really loved it. Thank you. A lot of people today, and this is unfortunate, but fine. Well, I don't have a lot of time to dig into this big, massive tone. But this is short, very edifying essays, I think. I found it that way. I really enjoyed them. People have said that, man. I went and Peter and I were talking about the value of the book. Some publishers rejected it because they said that collections of essays don't sell. And well, I'm not a businessman. I don't understand. But when I went to P.D. he said, no, I think that this would have a very, very, and solitary purpose. Because as you just said, they're kind of soundbite, and you could read one in two minutes. Exactly. And I think there's enough substance there to two things to ring the bell against the deception, but then to offer solution. And I think you're expressing well, I think, therefore, it's not formidable to a Catholic because they could say, well, we're off to read the whole thing through. Yeah. Like if this book that Peter gave me, because it's about this thick, right? If that was just one single volume, I would have thanked him very much, but would have stayed up on my shelf until who knows when. That's what the fact that it was little essays, I'll have my coffee, I have my cigar, I'll read it, and I find it very edifying. So for those who are watching, we'll put a link below so that people can check that out. I need to get to this. On more than one occasion. Come on. Tell us about this, please. Well, I had, oh, I guess it was around 1987. I just started teaching at St. John's University, and I, I friend of mine said, the sisters in the South Bronx, the measure I should try, looking for a priest to come and say me as for them. And I knew they were a very orthodox order, and again, I tried to associate myself with any sprigs of hope. So I was a bit afraid of the South Bronx at the time because it was really kind of, it was, it was named Fort Apache because of the crime is so high. But I told the woman, tells Sister Priscilla, who was a very other comment, that I would say, "Mass on every week." Because I had a lucid schedule now that I was teaching. And so there I would go into the South Bronx, the consistence would lock my car in a little space, so it would not be vandalized or stolen. And I would, I would say, "Mass for the sisters." What a joy that was. Wow. And on several occasions, St. Mother Teresa was at my mass. And then the sisters would serve breakfast to me because they were framed by the old disciplines of the nuns. They would serve me a beautiful breakfast, but they were not permitted to eat breakfast with them, not even Mother Superior, Sister Priscilla, was from Great Britain. But Mother would come in and sit with me and we'd chat with me. And I felt so privileged. And that happened on two or three occasions. And our conversations were so telling that I could remember once, I could say this, you could edit it out if you like. But I said, "Mother, you've been in the worst areas of sectors of the world imaginable." And you've seen the greatest evils, tell me of all the things you've seen. What can you tell me is the worst evil you have come of course. I suspect. expected she was going to say abortion or within Asia. She looked at me without missing a beat. She said, "Come union in the hand." "Wow." I said, "Mother, truly?" She said, "Absolutely Father." She said, "What dishonor 12 plus is Savior." I remember she had told that very same story to a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, who was saying mess with him occasionally, and he had gotten to the ear of the current ordinary of the Archdiocese of New York at the time. I will mention his name. He wrote an article saying, "How dare Mother Teresa take issue with an approved discipline of the Church?" He reproved her in an article because this priest was disclosing to other priests and other people in his congregations what she had said about union in the hand. Anyway, I came to love her. What was that personality like? It was abulliant and warm, engaging. I remember one person who participated in the Holy C's investigation of her life said, "You know that you are in the presence of a saint when you can't wait to be with them the next time?" Because she was magnetic. There with her, her knalled hand, she had hands like a truck driver. She did such an incredible hard work with all the sisters. She had asked me what I was doing and I said, "Mother, I'm pursuing my doctorate." She said, "Oh Father, is it going well?" I said, "Well, the tuition is very high and my Archbishop is not paying for it." She said, "Oh Father, we may be able to help you." You live in absolute poverty here. How could you help with the high tuition of graduate school? She took leave of me and said, "May I leave you Father?" Yes, Father. Afterwards, the spirit of the Catholic sister, Piscilla, God loved her. I don't know where she is now. Came and said to me, "Father, Mother told me you were having a hard time with your tuition." I said, "I am." She said, "Well, the missionaries of charity will pay her entire tuition." And they did. Wow. Because of Mother. Saint Mother Teresa granted me this favor. That is remarkable. Was she as famous at that point? She was. In fact, I guess it was a few months later she addressed the UN. Wow. Yes. And she invited me to be present in the General Assembly room. I've never said that before. And so, here I was sitting in the General Assembly as she was addressing the UN. And tell us what she said. Is this when she mentioned abortion? Yes, that's right. So you get it. It's probably on the U2. But it was so impressive. And she was unrelenting about it. I know. How did you feel as she was kind of stating this? I'm standing up and shearing her full well-recognizing mat. That's so many of the priests I know. And so many at the seminary would probably hate her for saying this. Because to them, it was simply a very easy option. You have to remember that I don't mind mentioning his name. A judge would father Robin Drenan, who was elected to the House of Representatives, I think, in mid-80s, was one of the major proponents of abortion in the House. So this was the mood at the time that anything went except the traditional doctor of the church, not disciplined by his society of Jesus. But yet, other priests were minding so well, which is it was father Bribouf, father Vincent Macchelli were being cast aside and hidden because they were embarrassment to the society. So you have to understand that that speech not only upset the intelligentsia of the United States of America and the ruling elites, but certainly of Roman Catholic Church. You had Joseph Benedictine, Carter Joseph Benedictine, who was the prince of the American hierarchy for all the times that he was in office, who developed what he called the time to sing this garment, without saying it. He was trying to do value the moral importance of being opposed to abortion by saying it was part of a garment of pro-life. Very clever these people, I think it would not at least as a colony would not come out and say, "Oh, you Catholics making a big fuss about abortion, leave it aside." That would cost too much of a splash even at that time. So how did he design his descent? I'll set up a weapon where we'll talk about many different issues of life and how dare they consider capital punishment to rank anywhere in its sinfulness with abortion, but that's the kind of thing he was doing. Yes, so she caused consternation to many inside the Church as well. Thank God for holy nuns. I'm thinking of another holy nun who I'm sure you've met Mother Angelica. Oh, I was on a program twice, man. Yes, I was privileged to be on a program twice. These good beautiful lionesses who stand up against the chaos. It was a great, great day when she came on the program. I must have been a priest a few years and she was wearing a modify at Habitat. It was still a habit, though. At that time, we spoke with her. Yes. She appeared on the following program in the full Franciscan habit that we now know. She said, "I'm doing this in order to show you religious what you should look like." God bless her. I think that wasn't that in part a response to the shenanigans at the world youth day in Denver where they made a sheeler. You might be right. You remember that? They put a woman actor during the stations of the cross. Yes, I do. She was furious and she went on turn on the cameras and she went off. It was lovely. Yes, she was. She was a bullet. She took her prisoners as it should be. I know also at those masses, I know that this was the fond hope of Saint Jean Paul II that it was attracting you, the many, many you came there. But I think that he was missing something because at those masses, there were photographs taken, a secret host being cast to the ground and then being collected by staff into large garbage bags in Japan. I have to say my conversion to Jesus Christ was at world youth day in Rome. No matter what shenanigans took place, it was at the end of the good. God used to draw good out of evil. That's right. Well, I wouldn't call world youth then evil. No, well, out of those practices that were occurring. They were evil practices at the workplace, perhaps, but I didn't see them personally. But I went as an angsty, agnostic kid who thought Jesus was for idiots and old people. And then I encountered happy people who weren't sarcastic or sadonic or cynical. I thought who are these people? I never attractive. They didn't make any sense to me. He did make a great, great, great mark on the church with these youth days. It's funny because on my crotch at the old age, I looked back at those, those desecrations, Matt, which filled me with great sorrow. And I guess I paint the entire world youth day with that, that brush. And maybe I shouldn't. And it's good you told me what you did tell me. I'll never forget that. And I'll communicate it to others. No, I really, I really will. Well, it is hard, isn't it? I mean, when you've endured so much evil and so much intentional deception, it's hard for all of us. Maybe this is just the truth about getting older in general where it's, you know, I don't know what I'm saying, you're cynical, but I'm think the temptation towards cynicism. I understand it because at least that way I can't be let down. It's like a giving up in a way, I think, a cowardly way to go out if you just look at the world and go, well, it's all going to hell, which is not at all what I'm not accusing you of that. Your book is the opposite of that. But you are right about that. And I find that with some of my priest friends, older priest friends, not the case, but the new priest that I'm meeting. I am now doing the traditional Mass and a new parrot. I just told you the pastor is John Mary, Vianne, only 11 years old, Dana priest, and his curate is just as holy. And it brings tears to my eyes that I thought my dearest Savior, I never, never dreamt that I would see such a revival of faith. And here are these two priests right before me. Wow. And they're not cynical and they're not despairing. They're just so happy that they could take the parish where they are and give them the patch morning of the Catholic faith. That's what makes them happy. So my older priest friends have some settled into a kind of despair. One of them, very brilliant, theologian and philosopher. Well, I can't as a very dear friend. One very will be called me at least once every two weeks and say to me, "John, I'm sinking. I see this wall of dissent and the sinidelity and the bitch is being appointed." I just don't know what to do anymore. And I felt so awfully bad for him because he's such a good priest and we become such good friends. And as a priest, Matt, I don't want to start preaching to him as a friend because he's in my equal. And all I could tell him is that there are sprouts of green. Tell us about these sprouts of green that you're saying, would you? Well, those were these priests. I had to go to a place in New York for some reliquaries, because we need reliquaries on the altars with the salvation of the mass. And a few of my friends accompanied me that I hit with me today. And I walked in and there was this very young man in a Roman collar, Rabby, as I'm wearing. And he was very gracious. And I said, "Father, how about you, Father? I'm not a priest. I'll be a priest in two years." His mom and dad were there. They were going to be preaching his chalice. It's a very moving moment. And I said, "Oh, it's so nice to meet you and where you're studying." And I don't want to give us some of these details. And he's studying for a Midwestern archdiocese, not the best. And I told him my name. And Matt, he said, "Oh, Father, myself, I'm and my seminarian friends are reading your book." I'm not saying that for Vanity's purpose, but the hope that there are these young men who are feeding themselves and are looking for places to feed themselves at the trowel of some of the church's teaching. And he was joyful. And he was happy. And I said to him, "You're in a difficult archdiocese." But any kind of forgiveness I am. And I said matter of factly. Matt factly. You know, this worked to do. That was his attitude. I'm not going to grumble about it. In fact, I find it exciting. And I said, "Will you save the traditional mass when you're ordained?" He looked at me and he said, "Absolutely, Father, and all my friends will." First, first, a sprout of green. You, secondly, the audience that you have, I beg you to forgive me before the interview of not knowing about you only because I'm a little bit antideluvian about media and things like that. Like I said to you before I had bad to sit down with St. Thomas' someone contradicts him. But when people began to tell me about the breath of the people that you are reaching, I simply said to myself, "This represents the triumph of the faith in Matt Fradd." And it represents the dying on the vine of the heritage who wanted to replace it. Even though they are still yelling and shouting, I really believe that they are as shrill as they are, because they know they have lost. The death throws of the. Death throws. They know they're still managing the levers of power and they still have the money and they're still control of all you see. But I think they know that and just come. How else can you explain the frenetic hysterical reactions to the presence of the traditional mass and all the young people that is attracting? Yeah. And they're not being told to do it. They're seeking it out. So, yeah, your program. I look at it's funny because I shouldn't be advertising it. But so many new public companies are spreading out. And they are republishing Matt. Marvelous classics that the modernists try to very, very hard to bury forever. What would you say that the kind of modernist project was? What were they trying to replace Catholicism with? Because I mean, I've had the same experience as you, even in the 90s. I remember after my conversion in the year 2000, meeting unhabited nuns. God bless them. I'm sure they had a difficult life and I'm not. I don't want to judge them who the hell knows what they went through. But you know, telling me that the church doesn't teach contraception is evil and just is on and on and on. What did they want to turn Catholicism into? A catalyst for a kind of Marxist change. Truly. You had people like liberation Theologians who were doing that. The Anato Baugh, Gistoffel Gutierrez, who were proffering Aromacophalosism without God. And I think this was their aim. Certainly the demise of our traditional religious orders represented that kind of dream, Eotopia, a religion without God, a secularist model. It's St. Paul's acknowledging a religion while denying its power. That's right. And I think that was their dream. They no longer wanted any mention of supernatural or the transcendent. They thought that these were damaging to man's human dignity. Because after all, what was one of their models and their siren songs, man has come of age. I heard that Artenozyum in the seminary. And men come of age. No longer need a religion. That's constantly talking about the supernatural and constantly talking about the cross and hope of resurrection. This is irrelevant to me. You know, Woodoff, Bulteman. To the end of his life, he had written the Djemith, the Djemith authorization, Wuxen. We got up into his pulpit in the Black Forest, Matt, and he opened up the text of the gospel he read it. And then he closed the, he was supposed to preach a sermon. He placed the Bible on the pulpit, left, went into the sacrusting, preparing for the story. I'm preparing myself. I don't know the story, but I'm not looking forward to it. We went into the sacri, and began to sob. Oh, that took a turn. And his sacristen said, "Doctor, what is the problem?" Eyes filled with tears. He turned to the sacristen and said, "I have nothing to say." He meant that he had successfully decapitated revealed religion. Wow. By demathologizing the Tynaux testament. His book was on the seminary list for required reading in all throughout the world. And he, nobody had done. It reminds me of Ernst Renan's friend, Bove, in France. After he had written the life of Christ, his first attempt, even before a Baltimore of demathologizing the Tynaux testament. But they said, "We have finally accomplished what we thought was impossible. We have dethroned Jesus Christ as a member of the Trinity." This is what they were after. It infected everyone. Everyone. Now, that's what I experience in your experience. But as far as the sprouts, see young people coming to the traditional mess as you do. And all they are hungry for are, is the cataclysm. They are hungry for the traditional mess. They want to be saints. And this is so alien to the Newtonian spirit as being, that was being profited, what I was praying. And that continues to be profited. I just heard the quote by Priest Franse sent me a quote by the new Archbishop of Westminster. I don't even remember his name. He actually boasted about the fact that I have to bring the Catholic Church in England to new places that end ever new before. Well, I know what those new places are going to be. And I almost felt like saying to him, "But you've brought England there now, and all you have is a corpse." But they still think there's work to be done. That shouldn't depress us, man, because they are the past. And you are the future. Not me, I'm an old man. But you will. That brings great buoyancy to me and to others. And then I can look at the payouts with this decay. They're too many wonderful things happening. Why do we need Thomas Aquinas? Why should we pick him up again and read him and teach him in our seminaries? And what was the result of throwing him away? I said in one of my essay, I'm just sort of it, I think it's entitled Aquinas, anyone, I'm trying to be as wild about that is possible. And I called him the fortress of Mother Church, the impregnable fortress. And when that fortress is breached, the faith is breached. His quasi-angelic intellect gave us an opulogia for the faith that appealed to both the faith, the wisdom of the faith, but also to reason, which made it impregnable. Why else did Pius did lay over 13th? Two years after he was seated on throne of Saint Peter, right, Saint Tedney Pountedys. And he says the only way to reconstruct the world, because it was the whole European, edifice was decay, is return to the photosync Thomas Guiness. And in that marvelous encyclical, he went through all the reasons why, because he represented the apagy of what human reason could do. He did not, in any way, make it equivalent to the faith, but made it an indispensable path to the faith, so that reason was given its proper respect, as it ought to be, by Almighty God, made it an image and likeness, but it doesn't replace the faith that brings us to the faith. He has this marvelous combination of faith and reason, which in a certain sense that exalts the human person. And yet he gives us an understanding of the faith that makes us understand that as exalted as we are made in the image like this, we are still his creatures, and without his grace can do absolutely nothing. In that same encyclical, you recall that he said this angelic doctor, or what he called a common doctor now, to make sure that he stood over and over all the other doctors of the church. He said he takes the entire tradition of the church, up until him, meaning the great fathers and doctors, and he makes all of them his own. This is amazing. So that when we read Aquinas, we are making the whole tradition of the church around. So when you say why is Aquinas necessary, because no one has been able to do this any better than that humble Dominican monk, and he did it with the utmost gentleness, charity, and child likeness, like you, I remember some of the stories of that child likeness. One of them was, he was deep walking in the cloister, deep in prayer, or probably reflection upon some difficult metaphysical problem. And a very playful brother came up to him and said, Father Thomas, Father Thomas, come come with me. There are pigs flying in the sky. He stopped him with his hulk. He breathless, he followed the brother. And he looked up at the sky and he said, where are they? And the brother said, oh, why was only kidding with you? Why did you come with me? And he said with child likeness, because I never thought a brother would not tell me the truth. Yes. Well, I can go on a disposition of why he said necessary to look what happened because we jettisoned Aquinas, the second Vatican Council just blew off like a wheel of detachment, Miss Axel. Of course, this was all carefully being cultivated by attacks upon the angelic doctor for the entirety of the first part of the 20th century. And one of my great, great heroes, as I'm sure he is for you, Matt, Father Gatorgo Lagrange, talk about a warrior. He battled these people, the Dunneleus, Lyskilbex, the Kongars, Labodats, and were trying to say that a new historical understanding of the Catholic faith should detach us from this overly stade encasement of metaphysics, the St. Thomas put us in. Well, little did they know that this false encasement was like the clear picture of milk that contains the milk. It's contained in one spot. Doesn't detract from the milk, but without the encasement, we wouldn't have the milk. Aquinas is that encasement. We all have mobile phone service. 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That's free meat in every single box for life plus $25 off your first order when you use my code Pints at checkout. GoodRanches.com American Meat Delivered. You mentioned the Sumer Contra Gentilez and I love that. I find that more fun to read than the Sumer Theology. Many people say especially scholars. Yeah. What I loved, of course, I'm sure you remember it is what he had to say about Muhammad, the blistering words he had for Muhammad. I'm concerned that there are Christians who think that there can be some sort of. Yeah. A raw Prosh Mah. Yeah, with the Muhammadans. Why is that not the case? Why should we see. I first want to say what Aquinas would say. We have to love them. They made the image like this for God. We have to hate their prenatures error. Not for one moment, that allow sentimentality to enter into that charity, a kaditas. Yes, we love them because they are made the ebential like this for God. But that love means that what we must give them as the truth, think Thomas says, the greatest exercise of holy charity is to tell them the truth. I remember a bishop in Australia, God bless him. I won't give any more information than that. Trying to say how we like the Muhammadans because we're both people of the book. This is what leads Catholics to lose their faith because there's no faith. There's no content to adhere to anymore. And then we wonder whether they abandon it. What they say, "Matter of our Lord, whereas I am the way, the truth and the life, I am the way, the truth and the life, no one shall come to the Father." Except through me, the ascension, go forth and teach all nations, teach them what I have taught you. There's no doubt in anyone, no doubt in the time to the church for all the years of 1965 that this is the one true church. And we have to give up our lives and our breath telling them. certainly recognizing that where there is error We have to identify it and we have to fight against it and we have to marshal every argument to protect Catholics from it. And now suddenly we abandon that vocation that is all of ours as Catholics to see nothing of being the vocation of shepherds of the Catholic Church and to say that somehow it is equitable with the Roman Catholic faith. This is going to do exactly what you say is going to mislead so many Catholics who are not a student of joking nice that maybe sometimes bishops are not telling us the truth. And in their naivete think, well if a bishop is said it or if a department of a holy see is said it, it must be true so I just have to embrace Islam. And that is exactly what is happening even more so in Europe than it is happening here I read in several churches in Belgium have now given their beautiful churches over to Islamic worship. Again, the teaching, the suggestion is that you are as good as we are and they are not and Catholics should not be afraid of saying they are a false religion and if they need any more proof look at the scorching critique that same Thomas gives of Muhammadism. And as you point out, and I am glad that you did that, that none of this, just like the critiques of the revolutions that took place after the Second Vatican Council are not a judgment or a critique of any individual who has been taught these ambiguities. You see, we should love them and we should love our Muslim brothers and sisters. And if Catholicism is true and it is, then we don't love them by allowing them or by not correcting them and by not reimboldening the faith of Catholics to know what truth is, what error is. I read a study recently that said if Europe stops all immigration entirely that Europe will be a Muslim country or the most popular in the 1950 or something like that. Most popular name for children, Britain now is Muhammad. Yeah, so they couldn't take it during the time of the crusades but it looks like they are taken it now. So what do we do? We have a lot of European listeners who watch this. Well, simple Catholics simply cannot tolerate this in their own way to fellow Catholics and even to priests when they speak this nonsense from a pulpit or an adult education class have to raise their hands and say, Father, you are absolute wrong, Muhammadism is a false religion. Every religion is false. They may have some tidbits of truth that we could look at but that does not make the religion true. Only the Roman Catholic faith is the true religion. They have to tell their fellow Catholics. That's one of the spiritual works of mercy to instruct the ignorant, isn't it, Matt? It's a wonderful way to exercise it during length. I consider that onto the rubric of Am's giving. Am's giving is relieving the estate of the poor and whole of the poor, so the poor, but those Catholics who have been left with nothing, their destiny to the faith. First thing. And then every time that this nonsense is spouted by Bishop or hierarchy, to simply write a letter or tell your fellow friends, Lord, respect to his office, he quasi-assist, successful at the apostles, this is wrong and you cannot fall for it. And we're seeing hope in Europe though I just read a newspaper article that said that baptism, adult baptisms are through the roof in France. I heard that. Yeah, come on. Talk about St. Thomas Aquinas that the greatest act of God's power is to draw good at other people. And this is what's happening there. This is the reason why we have to have hope and smiles on our faces and be abulliant because this is happening throughout the church universal. Yeah, old God is still there. Don't every mind you, Matt, of the old who you're too young to remember in the heyday of the Soviet Union, they would have their Mayday parades. May 1st, which the reason why pie is the 12th St. Peter St. Joseph the work one, on May 1st, to counteract that. And what happened is the gerontocracy of the Soviet Union would gather on this platform high above the red square where they weren't marching out nuclear missiles and other armaments. And they were old men. They were wheezing. They could not even see anymore, but they were holding this decrepit, failing Soviet Empire somehow together. And it fell one day, as we all know, with all due respect to the hierarchies of the church. They remind me of that gerontocracy of the Soviet Union, old men trying to hold up a tissue and empire of life. And it's falling apart. And you see that in the joy of, I just have these beautiful Dominican sisters here from Nashville. There's like a hundred and something of them in this lovely mother house here in Nashville. They're a literature. I have the two beautiful sisters of life, if you're, I'm sure you're familiar. I know them very well. Coming on recently and they're just joyful and beautiful and they look beautiful. The habit is beautiful and so important. Yeah. Because it just fills up with such a joy, doesn't it, for you and I, to see them, nothing makes me happier. They only make me happier than seeing a none and a habit is a priest in a Catholic. I love the Catholic. So tell me, how do we encourage our priest to wear the Catholic? Whenever I see a priest, I always thank him for doing it. Number one, number one, because I'm sure they get a life criticism and if they go to the Yosses and priest meetings, they're shunned. That's tough. So how do we encourage them then? That we, the Catholic people need you to be an icon of Christ. For me, when I look at you, I'm like, here's a man who takes his priesthood seriously. Exactly. And since I take my sin seriously, I would like you to take it seriously and I can tell that immediately by what you're wearing. All that wants. This is the power, the symbol, isn't it? In the 90s, priests would say, "Ah, call me Jim." I'm right. Okay, Father Jim. I try to try to join for whoever I'm not saying a particular priest, but. Sans' clerical dress. Oh, I knew that type very, very well. That type has faded because that was my generation and they're either dying or I was going to say in jail, but I don't want to say that. But they are no longer with us in this new crop of seminarians are coming. But yes, when you see a priest, tell them you're happy he's wearing a Catholic. And then to other priests, say, "I would love you to wear the case." I saw Father Sohn's, so he's only 27. He was wearing the. It made such an impression on me. Or I saw a priest in a restaurant in New York, which is happy to be frequently. People being so differential and filled with a sense of relief, almost a sense of protection to see the. The Catholic is like. Here's Hercules. That's the title of one of my essays. If you read it yet, the priest is. No, I haven't. The priest is Hercules. And that's what we stand. We stand like Olympiads for the Catholic people. But the dress is all important. We have to wear the Catholic. The great taken choreo of ours wore his cask. It was threadbare, but he is never without it. Because people there saw a protection from the awful effects of a secular world that you mentioned, you're trying to tear you into pieces, but the priest protects you. And this is his armor. I think this is a good question for any layperson out there. If I said it myself, all right, suppose I'm on my deathbed, do I want a man like you coming through the door or someone who's like, "Call me Bob." No, I don't want Bob. I love your Bob, but you don't know who you are. So how can you help me? That's the essence of it, isn't it? If a priest doesn't know who he is, how is he going to help others to know what they are? Poor sinners in need of the grace of Christ. Yes, the priest and the chastik means everything. It's his, he understands his own identity. And the Catholics who see him know he understands his own identity. They need to draw them like a magnet. The chastik is a magnet. I remember walking into an elevator about a year ago, the prince of my layman. And we've going up to a restaurant on the third floor. When I walked into the elevator with them, they're already a family, a Spanish family, mother and father and seven or eight children. When I walked in, the mother and father said in Spanish, "Neil down, father is here." But all these children melt down. And I blessed them and these are the great joys of my priesthood. But that's the kind of reaction that good Catholics should have. Here is father. The rule should light up. And think of how they would have been scolded if it were another priest, perhaps. Oh, don't talk, don't talk, don't talk, don't talk. You're absolutely right, mate. It's a proclamation, look how humble I am. Maybe it's even fear of how you ought to comport yourself. Do you know what I mean? That's that's like, of course, please don't treat me like that, because then I'll have to live up to that. It's a very, very good point. And that's the reason why so many shed clerical garment and clerical go all together, Matt, because they didn't want to live up to the expectations that they know Catholics have of the priest. And that is you was the case when I was in the seminary. They didn't want anything to do with this symbol that represented a life of perfection. Aquinas says in one of his apostolic law that the reason why the priest of religion, we Franciscan to Minikins, are I have to take the vows is because they are on their way to becoming perfect. But the deaces and priests and take the vows because before he's ordained, he knows he must be perfect. And the interior life. And I've never forgotten that. Father got a Guru, Raja writes two beautiful books, Matt, on the priesthood. If any priest are listening, you should get them and read them for Lent, the priesthood and perfection. And the second book was the priest in Union with Christ. I hope they're both in print to maybe including as both of them in print. You know, something just occurred to me. It seems like part of what was going on in the 70s and 80s, maybe in sort of eradicating solid teachings on doctrine and morals was we want to alleviate people of guilt so that they can just be free. But it just struck me that it's the lack of solid doctrine that has perhaps led to scrupulosity. In other words, if there's no content that I know about and yet I'm still burdened, I know that I'm not as I should be, but I haven't been taught what is virtuous and what is vicious. Do you see what I mean? If I don't know how to act, if I don't know what I should repent of, then I'm, I have a slight reservation to that, Matt, because you have to understand that most parishes on most continents are being towards certainly in America. They no longer have the reservations you have to subscribe to, which they did. Because if they are told each and every week like an antifon, God loves you just the way you are. Well, you don't longer feel guilty about anything because there isn't any sin. I see. So you're saying that, yeah, but, yeah, all right. And if you listen to one prominent Jesuit, who's publisher of a magazine, who is constantly telling that us that in serious infractions of the sixth commandment, I simply ways of showing love. Yeah. And he's not stopped. I simply say, I don't think Catholics have any kind of scrupulousity about anything. Okay. Well, they have not been taught. Well, maybe let me rephrase that. I would agree with you that if I, if I don't accept the moral law, then perhaps there's not much room for guilt or thinking that there is one. Yeah. But I think there's also a lot of young Catholics who are in the church. I guess that's who I'm referring to. Okay. Who haven't they know their guilty? They want to repent. They want to love Jesus Christ and be good man and good women. But if they haven't been given clear instructions on what is vicious and what is virtuous, you see, the importance of a tender conscience. This is very important. But the era of scrupulousity, there is a distinction there. But it is and it might lead to excess because they're not given the proper direction of the church by the priest, which should be giving it to them. So they'll look at land, for instance, and say, now this used to be the time of of of asceticism and fasting and bringing our bodies into subjection. But if they don't have the guidance of a priest, that will likely be taken to excess. Yep. And I see that happening a lot. And I have to correct it. I said, no, no, you're not. We let us talk about doing small things. It can be just as efficacious for our Lord with consistency, not flashes. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're right, but the priest needs to be doing that direction. I guess you're right. And that because I do see that because with these, these sentiments at these young people have, they want, they knew they know they are being called to God somehow. They're not being taught how because they don't have the priest teaching them. So it becomes a do it yourself as asceticism, which is very dangerous. Saint John of the Course tells us that it leads either to despair because you just find I can't do this or pride. I'm better than the rest because look what I mean. Look at me. Look, there are a lot of people who watch this show and hopefully they'll tell us in the comments who are converts to the Catholic faith. And everywhere I go, I meet people in the airport and in bookstores and shoe stores. I'm there saying, I watch a show. I love that interview, dude, with so and so. I can burn this last Easter. You know, praise the Lord. What advice do you have to them on how to begin developing their, what is the interior life and why should we care? How should they develop it? The interior life is simply doing everything for our, my autumn day glory. Everything we do in the course of the day for the greater honor and glory will mighty God. And that doesn't omit anything. From the moment they wake up and have to grow in their souls to face the world, that's being done for the honor and glory of God, my dear friends out there. And so therefore you should do with perfection. Waiting for the light and it might be late for work and it might be an exclamation of impatience and recognizing now this is a chance for virtue. I will not be impatient on my autumn day glory. And me giving my life to what about it God and going to the office and putting up with unfairness perhaps or you know, obstreparous people who are at the office, another modification you see, and at my autumn day glory on. What's happening is a Catholic begins to see that I don't have to do these long fasts that do it yourself. Serious Catholic will be doing things because these little modifications are just as significant to our Lord and they involve as much modification. How old are they going to all of this is being done for the honor and glory of Almighty God, the smallest things. What they might want to do is redecorate the souls of the Lord. A band of interdivine prophets. Great, great French classic. And they will see that sanctity is something that every Catholic can do. Every Catholic can be a saint. Every Catholic is called to become a saint and this becomes a joyful venture because when we are cooperating with God's grace and sanctifying every part of the day and all the work of the day and all the people that I come in contact with, especially my family members, and what will happen, especially engaging in that beautiful prayer with our Lord in our own words which Mother Church has classic, a cold mental prayer. But just our Lord do. He promised that I will send you the Holy Ghost and He transforms the soul. And what He leads with us are the twelve fruits of the Holy Spirit. So I'm going to encourage your audience to go to your categories and look up the twelve fruits of the Holy Spirit. I will give you the first three. You see the red joy, peace, love. This is what should characterize every Catholic who is falling more in love with our Lord Jesus Christ, crucified every day. And that will allow, as Chastatin put it, that it will allow goodness to run wild. That's lovely. That is our hope. Reson that as Catholic to let goodness run wild. But in order for that goodness to release, we released, I have to say no to sin. I have to work on those defects that I have. And I best do that with a Father confessor. Because he's the guide Mother Church has given me. So I don't do either too much or too little that I get it just right. That wonderful prudence that the angelic doctor talks about, which is so critically important to the Roman Catholic. What are some private devotions of yours, be it the rosary or some other method of praying that has meant a lot to you and that you recommend to others? Of course the rosary. Of course the angelus, I don't know if Catholics are doing the angels every day three times a day, very important that contact with our lady. Very important we cultivate our friendship with our God and angel. How do you do that? By simply speaking to him, north-right the day, before I came into this interview, I said to him, I'm doing this interview with Matt. I admire the work he's doing and all the Catholics that he reaches. Will you please give me the light I need to say the right things and think the right courts and deliver it in a way that Catholics will find this attractive and appealing. So pray to our God and angel. Our morning offering is very important because it sets the pace for the entire day. If I wanted to do everything for art by autumn day, glory on Matt, then that wonderful morning Warframe, which we found in the Catechism, I say that as soon as as I wake up in the morning. The first thing I do when I open my eyes, and then I would suggest to them, this might be a little bit too dramatic for some, but kneel down and kiss the floor as though we're kissing the feet of Christ crucified and then simply saying that beautiful prayer which consists of one word, said the arm. I will serve thee today and everything. Catholics will of course recall that it was the dawn of said the arm of Lucifer, that cast them into hell. We are going to, we are going to recoil from that, we are going to repair that. You see, but little thing. Yeah, this reminds me of José Maria Escruva, you. And then my follow-up. My great admiration for you. I'm dedicated to my childless to him many years before he died. And I have of course particular devotions. All of us have a particular for saint that we have great affection for and cultivate that devotion to the saints. I happen to love Saint Joseph. I've been making a constant oven for the the adification, condensation of interval of Hortonsheen, which he has given me many, many favors already, Matt. Had you ever met him? No, I once. He gave a talk at a parish in Jersey and I just shook his hand of his so briefly. But I was very, very privileged. I spent 10 years of my first years of teaching as a resident in the directory of Saint Agnes and Miteminat and a very famous church. The very church will Hortonsheen preach to seven last words. And I can't tell you the thrill I received, but I first ascended the pulpit of Saint Agnes to know that great, great preacher had such a profound effect upon my life. That right. Preached the seven last words. Yes, to have great effect. The saints are our friends and there are models and they're very, very efficacious for us to pray to them. Everyone will pick different saints. Yeah. Well, the guardian angel thing is still very interesting to me because that's not something I was taught at all. And then as I began to night. Yeah. As I became a Catholic, I heard that, of course, you know, angel of God, which is lovely. But I don't need, I don't, maybe I'm not listening to the right people, but I'm not hearing an emphasis on this. Like you just gave it. You sure? I'm glad that you did that. And and talked to them in an intimate personal way. Yeah. I need you to help me with this interview today. I need you to help me with my tax as I need you to help me with the children. I need for you to help me make this business decision. I need you better help me now. You know, yeah. This episode is sponsored by Clooney. So Clooney exists to bring back the great Catholic books that form generations, books that shape minds, stirred hearts and led souls closer to Christ. They're giving new life to treasures from writers like Fulton Sheen, Ronald Knox, Sigrid Unset, GK Chesterton, and so on. 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And really that's what this project's about, countering the chaos and amnesia of modern life by remembering who we are, where we've come from and where we're going. The way back is simple, take and read. Visit ClooneyPress.com today and say 15% with code pints 15. Colorado is trying to silence free speech again. A state law forces businesses to use customers, preferred pronouns, even if they're biologically inaccurate. With the help of Alliance Defending Freedom, a Christian bookstore in a sports apparel company are challenging the law, but a court recently ruled against them. They appealed the ruling and with ADF's help, they'll keep fighting another attempt by Colorado to skirt the first amendment. Learn more about how you can support free speech by texting wire to 83848 or going to join adf.com/wire. Well, it sounds like what you're talking about to fits in nicely with Therese of Lizzie, that beautiful queen of mine. Her little way. Because it's like she focused on what was small, she gave attention to what was small and her world was ginormous. We walk around just dismissing everything that's small and our world feels very tiny and narrow and a perfect way of putting it, a perfect way of putting it. I have great devotion to her as well. I'm not going to go through all of them, but I have pictures of them all over my residence and to be in their company is so beautiful and to think that this was robbed from Catholics, the whole communion of saints, and now we have to bring it back. You and I have to be apostles of the saints and cultivate, help Catholics to cultivate it to the saints in their lives and become the guardian angels. Are you encountering a lot of people converting to Catholicism in your parish in the diocese? Not converting to Catholicism, coming back to the faith, they call them reverts. Yeah, and awful lot of them. I come across an awful lot of young people. I give her men's retreat every year and a woman's retreat. It won't be coming right up. And I, there must be at least 140 men who attend this retreat and I would say about 75% of them are under the age of 40. It is quite remarkable, Matt, to look at these young men who want to be soldiers for Christ. They want to go into the battlefield for Christ and and it just brings me a whole new adjuvenation of my aging priesthood to see. So I do see that. And so there are converts and to see their fervor and their willingness to make any sacrifices in order to promote the faith and they want to understand the faith and go deeper and deeper into the riches of the faith and they recognize that the faith represents riches. And they're not, they will, they will no longer be fooled by the lies. So I see them coming to my lectures that I give twice a minute. Yes, I see them constantly. It's great joy for me. How should we view the holy father during this time of kind of immediate access? I remember even when Pope Francis was elected, there wasn't live streaming on YouTube the way there is today. I remember I had to keep refreshing to see who it was and then five minutes, ten minutes later Wikipedia had an article on him. But now everybody with a camera like myself and others is saying the things they think everyone needs to hear. We could probably old do some good by hearing less of it, including what I have to say. But it can really rattle people because we have constant access to what the holy father is saying and what he just did. I suggest one simple thing for Catholics to do. Please, don't listen to what he's saying. Pray for him every day. Okay. Or for acts of modification from every day. And if enough Catholics pray, fervently, he will become like his name, say, Gluiter 13th. And he will begin to roar the Catholic faith. And you and I met, never your Catholic will say, I never thought this could happen. And it will. But that depends upon us not worrying about him. Because we have to be candid, some of the things he's been saying or worrisome. But by not listening to that, we're not going to be upset. Yeah. What good does being upset do for us as Catholics? It sends us, makes us grumpy, makes us speak complaints. And it's simply not good. So to clarify, you're not saying don't listen to the holy father. No, not that. Just don't be on the internet listening 24/7. Yeah. What are you saying this airplane to do? What are you saying? What's going on? And I think we ought to pay attention when he's confirming us in the faith. And when he's saying things that are a little bit unusual to the faith, we say a memory for him. And with all due respect, listen and say, well, that doesn't quite fit with the deposit of the faith and move on. Not to go to our friends and say to you, "Do you want to say it?" Because what does it create? It creates number one anger. And some it creates a kind of despair. Yes. That's what you see alone. Yeah. And what good does that do us in the end to be angry and to be in despair? And so one should just simply pray from every day. And for those who don't want to do that, well, I think we just kind of, you know, just talk about, I don't know, growing asparagus with them. Okay. But not, but they're not. And it doesn't mean that we are ostriches that are head in the sand. It means when he says something that's unusual. We simply say, "Mumorari for him." Yeah. And maybe say to our friends, "Yes, he did say something unusual." But gee, I have to talk to five men who won the Catechism today. I don't have time to talk about him now. Yeah. I want to have a hat, McIna. I take care of my children. Yeah. I think it was Dr. Ed Faiser, who I think is terrific. Oh, he's marvelous. Yeah. Has he been on your program? He has. He has. And it was an honor. And I really hope to get him on again. He brought up a good point. He says, "The failure of the Holy Father or this or that Bishop or Cardinal or Priest or you know, Lave, Philosopher or something, if there's failures there to uphold the Catholic faith to condemn what ought to be condemned." Okay. That doesn't relieve us of the responsibility. It doesn't relieve me of the responsibility to say what is true and to condemn what is false when appropriate. And so. So true. Just do it. But for example, under the rate of bed at the 16th, we said wonderful things. We could not have had the attitude as well. He's saying it. I don't have to. Yeah. I be the temptation. No, he's right. Yes, he said that, but I have to now say it to the groups of people over whom I have influence. And that is my role as a Catholic. That's my apostolate. Now, you're a confessor and I've sure you've heard tens of thousands or more confessions. What are the sorts of things that men, women are struggling with today? Is there overarching themes that you're encountering that you think we need advice to help us with? Well, Edge category makes a difference. So I find young men are entrapped by the social media and the access it gives them to immoral images. That's a quick sand for them. Young men and almost invariably all of them will come, trapped by that. And unless I wrench them from that, cut those chains, they'll have no peace and won't know what to go. So that's what I encounter with them. Other groups, a little bit older, I find do not know how to pray. They think that prayer is the hysteria that Baptists are used to in their churches. And I let them understand what all was in the gospel yesterday when you pray going to your room and praying, "Secretarily Father, who's season's sequel." Here you are. I put before them the public and how his prayer was so perfect and lauded by our blessed Savior because of its humility, even as the Pharisee was standing and waving his arms and thank God I am not like the rest of men. All those histrionics, O Lord, does not praise them. And I think too many Catholics who have been in this time of spiritual famine, think that maybe that's the way I'm going to get because it makes me excited. I had to try to correct them and then I think what mourns the most is the perfect example of prayer as our Lady. And we look at her at the foot of the cross. She was not whaling. She was not in distress. She was happy just to have her eyes meet the eyes of her son. And the stirring of her amangled heart was all invisible and yet it's perfect prayer. I try to instruct Catholics of certain age to that's how they should pray. And of course of those there is the very ordinary sins of trying to be a saint within their families and dealing with the children of a band in the faith, which causes them great, great agony as you know, helping them to understand that. Helping them to understand what Mother Church calls rightly ordered prayer. That order is so important and it hasn't been taught for a long time. And unless prayer is ordered, it's going to be inefficacious to us. But Mother Church always taught us the right ordered prayer through the traditional mass. Every part of it is bringing us to the Holy Trinity in a perfected way, which doesn't give way to some mentality, doesn't give way to over display. And it's profound restraint. And yet almost delirious joy. It teaches us everything we now have to know about becoming being Catholics. And also how to pray and how to bring our Lord out to our neighbor. And I did hear confessions for those ten years that lived in St. Agnes and every stripe of St. Louis, because of commuter parishes. Confessions for a hundred all day long. But it was so good to see people who were willing to be so contrite. And coming to confession, a funny story for you. Confessions never end in St. Agnes. So when it was my turn or the priest turned to come in a half hour periods, we're not going to confess our door. And the priest would come out and give the purple soul to the next priest. And my dearly beloved friend, now gone to God on C. E. E. G. in clock. One day I was a pastor. I was relieving him and I knocked on the door. And he came out and gave me the purple soul and then whispered in my ear, "Father, I've taken care of all the unusual cases." Okay. Everyone's walked unusual cases. Especially in the temperament. Yeah. Another thing that we were told during the crazy craziness was that the devil didn't exist. And demons are just whatever. Imaginary or. Or they're literary devices that personify evils, but they're not themselves existent. What should Catholics know about the demonic? That's an interesting question. Because first of all, they have to understand that it is a defined dogma of the Catholic faith that angels exist, but some of them are foreign angels, devils. And their whole role is to deceive us, centering us to hell. Satellite though. Satellite. And so, Catholic is defying the faith that they don't believe in them. They're not really psychological constructs or syndromes or literary devices. That's all the nonsense of modernists and atheists, especially atheist psychiatrists. So we have to understand that. But Catholics have to have a balanced understanding of the diabolical. Yes. What I am troubled by these days is an imbalance. So we have many Catholics today who have become hysterical over the diabolical, thinking that somehow the devils around every corner, they do things like talk about generational sin even though our Lord condemned it. And they have a fascination with exorcisms. Yes. There's a lot of this online. Oh, this is very dangerous. Before the council, every archdiocese had their own exorcist. That would be a pre-stlected by the bishop who would be able to exercise the power he had, given an ordination as all of a sudden of exorcisms. However, the church understood that the greatest quality of an exorcist was humility, only because the devil worked on pride. And so therefore it was forbidden for him to identify himself to anyone. So no one ever knew who the exorcist was in the diocese and he would never devolve himself. As a moment, he did that. He recognized he'd be giving it a private. I have the exorcist for the bishop. So sanctification was all important. Now suddenly, we have a cottage industry of pre-sourbosing about being exorcists. This is very unhealthy. because it's going to have Catholics, especially Catholics who are well-meaning and trying to escape the crisis. I began to think that, oh my goodness, what the devil be there and everything I do, is he waiting for me here, is he waiting to be there? Is the sin of my father going to become to me because this was never spoken of before the council. There was a balance and that balance is given to us in the prayer of the priest in the office of Complain Matt. When Mother Church gives to the priest the beautiful text from Saint Peter's epistle, the first epistle of Saint Peter, when he says be watchful, be vigilant for your enemy, the devil goes about the world seeking souls to develop. Stay said fast in the faith. That's it meant that a Catholic was to remember that most of the sins, the temptations of sin that are going to come to me in the course of the day are going to be these subtle whispering is by the devil. And God has given me grace and free will to say no to those. Now the devil will continue to try and his manipulations are ever so clever. He's an angel after all. But that's all they are. And I have power over him. What I'm in the state of sanctifying grace. And if I'm staying close to the mother of God, she crushes him beneath her immaculate heel. And if I'm bleeding against her throughout the day, in many ways, she's going to protect me from him. He's going to flee. So on the one hand, I recognize that he's there to ensnare me throughout the day. I don't worry about it. Yes. And I think any exorcist worth his salt would agree with you. Yes. It's hard to find that balance isn't it? Because you've got some people who are listening, who say the devil doesn't exist. So then when they hear an exorcist like Father Ripperger or somebody lay out, well, look, here's the reality. It's beneficial to them. And then you perhaps have people who've, you know, out of a sort of unhealthy fascination listened to too much of that stuff. And then as you say, they need to calm down. Yes, I fight a lot of that. So that's what the people you're interacting with, you're saying, it's more that than the other, at least in Catholic circles. Yes. The ones I interact with no longer have a lot going to spat off the nonsense, but there's some devil. That's the exact opposite. I'm afraid the devil's everywhere for them. And then thinking too much about the exorcist. And I admire Father Ripperger so much. But I just think that emphasis of his might not be the best emphasis we need today. Because it will somehow detract from a Catholic's joy. As I'm fighting the devil, again, I have to be careful because I am armed with grace. I have the intercession the mother of God and my guardian angel. So no matter how vicious these temptations are, I conquer them. And I laugh at them. The saints laugh at the devil and he doesn't want to be left at that. But he wants to be taking deadly serious. And when he's left at, it is anxious as pride. And he is wall to wall pride. This is not good. So I just think that Catholics had to have this attitude of St. Peter and his epistle. Yes, be diligent. Yes, be watchful. Because he is prowling around the wall seeking solace. But if you are steadfast to the faith and using those resources and those implements I just talked about, there's nothing to worry about. He's conquered and he's not going to be a problem. I guess you and I both think of that wonderful. Was it book six and the confessions where St. Augustine is trying to move out of his lusts? Finally, it's beautiful. So powerfully portrayed. And finding it so difficult, you remember that one portion where he's almost capturing purity. Will you leave us forever? Will you leave us behind? Forever. Oh my god. These voices, they were transiting. And he continued to fight against those whispering to the end of his life, man. We know that he asked his secretary every night to tie his hands to the bed panel behind him. What? Didn't know about that. I'd be a melody. No one knows must ever think that we're ever impervious to those sent me because he knows how effective they are, especially for men. Because he has permission to deal with the imagination, remember? Francis disales, I think it was, who said we should have patience with the whole world, but primary have patience with oneself. Does he say never become discouraged at seeing your own perfections, but every day begin the task and you? It's good to hear that from a Titan, Lex and Francis. And he is a Titan. So you don't mistake it for soft advice. I mean, it's so important with, so as we kind of come to a close here, maybe some final advice for the Catholic who wants to become a saint, maybe is struggling, maybe is tempted to give up, maybe needs patience with themselves, but also needs to encourage to chase after virtue. May I suggest to the audience that you find a good father confess it because that's going to be critically important. Someone told me you're accountable every month, who comes to know your soul and recognizes when you're trying to dodge the will of God and when you're not, and can call you to account. That's all important. We cannot do this on ourselves. St. Joseph of Latham said, a man who is a judge in his own cases of fall. Very important. After you find that real praise, it could be a father confess it for you, then you begin the serious business, but the joyful business of taking one small step at a time and doing the Holy will of God, and knowing that if you did that today, but the end of the day when you make your examination of conscience and you're going through the day and you look at those victories that grace allowed you to win and you say, I'm one step closer to being a saint. Tomorrow there's a lot more work to be done. But if I should happen to fall tomorrow, I will say to Christ crucified, I'll pick myself up and I begin again. I'll say the act of contrition and move forward. We have to do that and that ordered piety, same for instance to sales, it's a perfect example of that man, ordered piety, nothing to excess, and filled with joy and yet very, very wise councils in the introduction to the Bible. Such a great book. Come on. Then maybe a more contemporary author, Father Basil Matron, virtual guidelines for soul seeking God. Thank you. I haven't heard of it. Mag, Nif, M-A-T-U-R-I-N, another one of his masterpieces and almost like you'd find it in a the new age section of a bookstore. He's simply named it named itself knowledge and self discipline. Matt read it, it will cause explosions in your soul. Well, and then you interact. Go to Father Edward Lean, L-E-E-N, these are all men who wrote in the beginning of the 20th century. They are treatises on how to become a saint, were remarkable. For Lend, why the cross? The vine and the branches. What is education? Divine intimacy. Divine intimacy of Father Cable of Mary Magdalene, another one I can go on or on. Robert Benz and Munseer Robert, who bought so many into the church, we talked about the devil. See us Lewis. Scoot tape letters. hilarious. And yet a Catholic is getting understanding how does he operate? The operates but subtlety never shows his hand. Spiritual reading is so important for good Catholics. They should be doing at least 15 minutes of it a day and this way they'll go forward. Becoming saints. I forget which saints said it, but it was something through the effect of there are many devotions within the church's treasury, choose only a few and remain faithful to them. I like that advice because we have the temptation to vacillate. But I think something similar with spiritual reading. We can look at all of the books and feel guilty that we haven't read all of them and then buy them all and then never read any of them. Right. What good would that do? Choose one consistency. Like you said, nothing to excess. It's calm down 15 minutes a day. 15 minutes a day. And Father Gabriel of Saint Mary Magdalene is wonderful for mental prayer. Yes, I would encourage Catholics. This is very, very difficult. What a mental prayer Catholics might be afraid of. Priests I know are. My mother church works about mental prayer. She simply means that we're talking to our Lord in the intimacy of our own words. What could be easier? I mean, Mother Church canonizes children as saints, St. Barsko, Agatha, Agna. They were all practicing this. I spoke to our Lord from the bottom of their hearts. Try to do that every day. 50 minutes. In the beginning, I give spiritual direction to men, they find it so hard. But work at it and work at it. And And this is going to bring you, this is the speed ramp to become a site. You can't overlook mental prayer because it's easy for us to hide behind the beautiful prayers and Motherfriars that are giving us. But when we come to our Lord a mental prayer mat, it's just me and Him in my own words, making acts of adoration, contrition, thanksgiving, supplication. And what He does in return to send us the Holy Spirit and He transforms us in ways that are imperceptible at the beginning. But nonetheless, bringing you close to His sacred heart, therefore making us, if I may say it, torches against the pimp. Come on. And now we're back to where we started. No, truly apostles. You know, the Francis Xavier is through. That's what she needs now. He's slain to be Francis Xavier and Isaac Job's and Vincent to Paul and lovely. Thank you so much for taking the time. Welcome. We're so grateful. Pleasure. I hope I didn't bore your audience with those details of my personal life. No, I think people find that fascinating. It's nice to know you're human and where you came from. I find that very fascinating. So torches against the d- the abyss, rather, will put the link below for that and anything else you want to point people towards and know you hold retreats. I do hold retreats and they can find out about them. One of my assistants Frank told me, "I forget the name of my website. It's Father Paracol." We'll put it in. We'll find it. Okay. It is. They'll know it. And they can learn about your retreats. And my sermons are now on. Yes. They're excellent. I watch them. They're great. They're small. They're not, you know, it's like the articles, right? And whoever's putting them together is doing a great job with your thumbnails and-- Yes, yes, that's all Frank Mintershak and his great-- God bless you Frank. Yeah. Technological abilities. Yeah. Thank you Frank. Yes, you are. I don't tell you. Thank you Father. Thank you Matt so much. You are a joy to be with.