85. What's Working To Get Clients From Ads In 2026

If you are seeing the one, what is working in ads in 2026? I just spent the past hour and a half running from an actual master class of my team, running through what offers of working, what creative is working, what the budgets need to look like, what the costs need to look like for cost per lead, cost per acquisition, and all the goodies that you would need to know. So you can do your math to be able to figure out what you would need to do to scale. And then what the sales operations looks like for you to be able to actually hit the ROI that you are looking for from your ads. So that's what this podcast is about today. Tune in and get the source. All right, guys. Uh, back today to talk about ads. Um, firstly, who the fuck are you? Right? Are you fucking? I've never seen you with that good of a fade before. Is this fucking amazing? That's a fresh fade. Yeah, it's a little better somehow. So our fresh fade is the only way to do it, especially before we got to get on a podcast. Pretty sure I saw Kyle with a fresh fade the other day too. And the philosophy was he wanted his clothes rate to increase. So we got a fresh fade. Yeah, fresh, fresh fades mean higher closes. Everybody knows it was always like a 10% bump for me, for sure. Right. If those records down, just go get a fade in here. You're gonna pop up those numbers. Yes. Yeah. We want to talk ads today. What's working in 2026. Um, and I think that it's going to be around two different things like for the founder and the owner of the business. And then for people who do run ads for all clients, I continue to deliver a aspect of what the differences are and how to think about them differently and everything else too. Um, and I brought you on. Uh, you and I have been working together for when did we actually, like, because we don't twice now. When did we start? Yeah. Just like summer last year. Was that when we started working together in the actual you being in the back end of of our campaigns and stuff, right? Yeah. So I started consulting with you sort of summer of last year. Yeah. And then we started working where I was actually just handling it on January, February. Yeah. So what did you say seven months? What did you say you would do it? Handling handling handling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Notice how that shit sticks. All right. It's, uh, um, if there's one like little thing that I've always found that I'm relatively good at it's naming things that are already things that people say. So it's like cover title stuff that makes it easy. Anyway, so, um, you work with us on the back end for our ads. You're a part of our, uh, like team to be able to actually work with the settings and calling everything else as well. Um, and you and I are chatting back and forth on ads literally every single day. Um, just to figure out what the fuck we need to do to, to, to, to, to mince our and campaigns and make those work in everything else as well. Um, but for some validity for the back end, right? Like, um, sorry, validity for what people might be curious about for those that don't know you. Um, how much ads Fendiv you managed over the years? Oh, multiple seven figures, uh, with multiple, well, not quite getting the multiple yet, but with over eight figures in revenue collected. Okay. Um, I've been, you know what? It's, it's, uh, this question's always interesting because I came from corporate and from when corporate, I started as a consultant with, you know, on paper, the way these guys say, like, oh, I've managed multiple millions, whatever. Um, I started my career at that point because I was managing, you know, million dollar a year budgets when I was directing stuff for, um, you know, professional training company, manager of a bank, and then getting and consulting with small businesses, building websites, running their Google PPC meta PPC YouTube ads, like I have done it all, you know, and I've kind of just centered in on meta mostly DM ads, which is what we're running. Um, partially. Yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's, it's been a lot. I haven't tracked the dollar for dollar because I've been in the game for 14 years. At this point, so if I went back and tracked it all, it's easily in the multi seven figure range. Cool. Appreciate, appreciate the fact that you don't suck. Um, do you think, uh, ads has changed a lot in 2026? What do you think it's all for Guazi? Did the ads have changed so much? I will say just in the past few years. Okay. Um, and then even compared to like when I started, just for context, right? Like a lot of these media buyers here out here now, we used to get leads for, uh, the professional training company that I worked at for about a dollar to two dollars a pop for a $25,000 program. These weren't like, these weren't opt-in, like male list opt-ins. These were people who were submitting, uh, intent for a direct offer to come and train with us. It was just absolutely wow. That was about 14 years ago. So that was, um, I think, I don't even think Facebook had a conversions objective at that point. So anyways, going from there to now, you had the conversions objective, you had Facebook's meta, algorithm, whatever. It got really good for a period. And then you had iOS kick in that just completely demolished everybody's data and then Facebook didn't know how to send you the right people for a while. Um, between then and now, now you've got AI coming in and the barrier to entry to running ads and the amount of content that has flooded the ecosystem, it has made everybody's attention so scarce that, um, that's what you, when you hear people talk about in drama, you hear people talk about you have to refresh your creative every single week, you need more and more and more creative. That's really what they're talking about because people just get inundated with so much different stuff all the time that if you're not at that top end of being able to capture the attention and actually haven't added their performs, it just goes to die in the auction. Okay, I agree. That's, that's the biggest change, man. We used to be able to get away with some pretty easy stuff. You remember like Sam Evans used to run that ad that was like, this isn't ad. You know, and that thing absolutely crushed for a while. That worked as well. It really did. They never copied it. Yeah, and then it doesn't work anymore. And so that's what happens is it's the rate and the pace of change right now with AI. I mean, you see it, you've got tools like foreplay and motion and all these different things where somebody's running something, you see it works, they swipe it, they drop it into cloud chat, GPT and all of a sudden they've got their version out next week. It's the exact same ad almost, right? Yeah. So that's, that's the biggest thing is it's just the rate and pace of change in the creative game. You mainly work with like high ticket businesses now like coaches consultants, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But yeah, do you have any service stuff? Local service? Yeah, I've done a bit of local service. I used to work with real estate agents. That's, that's probably the closest to it. I've got a little bit of like, you know, construction leads here and there. But yeah, you run for a bunch of agencies and a bunch of like your own stuff for us, multiple different high ticket businesses and everything else as well. And I just click to a lot of the actual local service stuff on our side too, because the principles are fundamentally the same in the way. Yeah. All right. So, should we just get into it to figure out what, what does it take to win in ads in 2026? Right? It's probably the question that I know that is on a lot of minds of two people, one like our actual existing clients in PDS and the prospects too, right? So like winning in ads, right? I feel like we should have one of those buttons that has Charlie Sheen that just says winning. Winning. Right? You could get one of those for my desk. So in order to win in ads in 2026, like, what's the like, alpha and beta of things, right? Like, where are most people getting it wrong right now, do you think? In terms of what they're focusing on, because I hear a lot about Andromeda and I think it's like, yes, I agree. It has had an impact, but my experience has been that it's had a big impact on people's belief in themselves and it has on the actual campaigns. Yeah. Yeah. So Andromeda is my favorite thing right now because you're right. Most people think that because they hear some gurus saying that, you know, you've got a test 1500 ads a week in order to work with Andromeda, it's just not the case. And so all they do is they just burn themselves out. Sure. Trying to do that by trying to test too much. Because you've heard me say this when we're working to get or working together a lot. Like we have no shortage of ideas. We have no shortage of shit to pull from. What we don't have all the time is an unlimited testing budget because our budget's going towards our winners, which makes sense. Right? But what we don't want to do is we don't want to dump two grand a day into testing by testing 1500 different versions. There's no point. I'd rather stick that to what's already working. And so what people do in said they hear that I've got a test. I've got a test. I've got a test. And they burn themselves out testing all these different things. And then they never know what actually works because they're testing too many things at once. Right? That's one of the biggest mistakes I see right now is they're over indexing on what somebody on YouTube told them to do with their ads instead of just really learning fundamentally what a good ad is getting something working and then just giving that gas. What is a good ad? So good ad. I would classify as somebody is one that gets the right person to put the hand up for the right thing for the right reason. You can nail those things, especially in like a high ticket sales organization. That's how you get into conversation with the right people. Everything else fundamentally after that, I would indicate is either a marketing or a sales objective. But specifically ads, that's always been my philosophy. Right person, right thing, right reason. >> I want to come back to this. You called it a high ticket sales organization. >> Yes. >> You didn't call it a business. You called it a sales organization. We're going to come back to that one. There's probably an hour of conversation just in that one, in particular if that makes sense. All right, so if we were to winning ads in 2026, where do we stop? Is it person, is it authors of where do we stop? >> You're to start with the person. >> Yes. >> Right, so who is it that you want? Right, a lot of times people start backwards from their product, but you don't work backwards from the product. You work backwards from the person that you're trying to serve. >> Yep. >> I agree. >> Yeah. And then you think about what problem do they have, right? Again, this is the person, but it's like, what is the problem? >> Yep, what's the actual problem they're experiencing? >> Yeah. And then I think, how can I get this person to raise their hand saying, I'm this person, I have this problem. Now, a lot of guys used to do this by saying like, attention, coaches and consultants, attention, agency owners, attention, they would do that. That was mostly just a meta algorithm thing to get the right person to stop. But I think about this more is, what is the thing we're giving them? What is the whole premise of the actual ad? If I'm talking about how to scale a market agency, who's the one who's probably paying attention to that? Probably a market agency. >> Probably a construction company. >> That's right. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's dentists that are clicking on it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I would say this is one of the areas that I spend most of my time, you and I spend most of our time amongst the team we spend most our time. Without clients, I spend most of my time. It's like, who are you trying to market to, right? It's been my experience that where people typically tend to get this wrong, is their way to shallow in the answer to that question? >> Yeah. >> For example, right, like the person who serves, called the construction space, if that makes sense, right? More often than not, but they are running the same ads that they saw other people run their content speaks to just people in construction or in trade services or in, you know, fucking landscape and renovation or whatever the fuck it is that they're doing. But they haven't gotten really clear around the exact archetype of person and the exact avatar, the exact size of business, the exact amount of team members, the exact level of revenue, the exact problems they're dealing with on a daily basis, the exact things they've tried before to be able to even get so dicey in the ads. And this is where we created off-elinking, right? Like, off-elinking is the, it's sole purpose is to solve this problem to make the rest of advertising marketing sales really easy for you and everything else as well, right? When you're trying to get messaging done right, because this is essentially what we're doing here, the who and the problem is a messaging guiding tool, right? And that's what we're doing off-eloking for in general. What do you think about in terms of first principles here that most people either get wrong and what do we need you to get it right? I think the thing that people do wrong most of the time is they blindly copy everybody else, right? And that's probably the biggest one, because there's that whole thing that went around forever about funnel hacking and swipe what's working and this and that. But they missed the core premise in that that's working for somebody else who has a different business, a different avatar, a different product. All of those things have to line up and go back to your ad. Now, if you can take those things and you can swap in your version of it, I would say you're not just blindly swiping it, right? But a lot of times people will just copy what works and they'll copy the same hook. They'll change a couple of little things about it and then they'll run it and then it and then it doesn't really work. What's true there being different ways of doing that? Again, figuring out who is the person, like it kind of, it comes back to offer linking. But it comes back to offer linking, it comes back to messaging, it comes back to positioning. When you have that, when you have those things nailed down, you know how to speak to the right person, and you know the right problem that they actually want to solve. Again, right person, right problem for the right reason. You're able to create, you're able to take that messaging and then go and apply it to the format, right? So like one of the things we did recently was we took and we created like a video breakdown of the 50K playbook, right? In video format. And that angle very quickly became one of our top controls. Three years running has been the same top. Yes, like, playbook as well. Right? Yeah, because it's nailed the ICP and it's nailed dream outcome and it's nailed exactly what they want. And it's given them a pathway to where they want to go. So it nails to who, it nails the problem. So the who is obviously a marketing agency or not or like high ticket service founding founder or business owner who is making 10 to 20 grand a month who has gotten that stage where like they've been able to get money but they don't know how to actually build a business now. So the 50K point is a concompration of all these fucking like epic true, like this is a real playbook. This is not fucking, and I think that's, I think that's what makes this good in the fact that it's actually a real playbook with real valuing here. Like you can build your awful, the actual, the awful building here. You chose exactly how to get your first five to 10 clients quick in here with that new offer, a lead generation playbook, a daily sales system, a complete mini course and actually building a seven figure team and everything else as well. It's everything so we genuinely need to be able to build a like a seven figure agency or seven figure coaching business or seven figure high ticket online service business of any sort. 'Cause it's built based on what we've done and what other clients have done too. But so it nails the solution to the problem that they're experiencing and the second that they open it, it's actually good. - Yeah, it's actually really good. - Yeah. - Do you wish to give it to people who are listening? - No. - If you guys don't have that mission, sell it to them. - Yeah, we should sell it to them, right? I'm suppose we haven't done this low ticket actually, genuinely, right? If you guys listen to this, message me the word 50k dash, podcast and I'll send it across. If you haven't got it yet. Just so that I can send every time someone sends a word 50k mini checkers of fucking crazy. - If you're losing out on 50k. - Yeah, it's over, right? So we nailed that person and that problem, right? - You know what I think the biggest distinction is there too. Sorry to cut you off. - The biggest distinction with the 50k playbook is that it doesn't, it doesn't appeal necessarily to the person who's the beginner. And I just want to show this because this is the difference when it comes to offer linking and getting that ICP done correctly. The 50k playbook, if somebody goes, yeah, I want to hit 50k months, sure. The beginner isn't necessarily going to make that mental leap right away and then as soon as you get it and check it out, you see the messaging that we use to promote it in our ads. But we don't speak to somebody who's like, hey, start and scale your marketing agency. It's, you're going to scale your marketing agency without hating your life, which means we're going to implement the right team. We're going to put in the kind of offer that scales without you necessarily being the head of it, right? Just those two things do not speak to somebody who is in the biz-op space of, I'm going to start a social media market right here. Very, very big difference and it doesn't seem like a big difference until the people start showing up in your inbox, right? And then you're actually able to discuss their problems that they have with them. And of course, they're going to have other problems. That's the other thing about the 50k playbook that I really like is that there's so many things that it fixes. Sure. You've got your offer, your team, your sales system, your lead gen, your plug, the thing is legitimately like a low ticket program given away for fun. That also gave us an unbelievable amount of angles that we could play with to market the playbook that would bring someone in for a different pain point for each of those different things. What chapters the playbook itself actually provides. And we've done it. Yeah, and we have it consistently, and it works really fucking well. We've literally ran the same playbook. It's been updated on the internal offer to actually make your data over the years. But it's been like two and a half or three years that we've run the same fucking thing for, right? Because the offer is good, right? I think that an area where a lot of people get this wrong, is like they think like again, maybe dentistry, right? Or fucking meds bar or contractors, if that makes sense. They're thinking about the dental facility that is seeing, they're not thinking about how many patients are seeing, they're not thinking about how many locations they have, They don't think you're about to have any talk. is they have on-site, they don't think they're at dangerous they have on-site, they only think about I can help someone get patients as opposed to I can help you open your second third or fourth fucking location or high your 15th fucking dentist, right? That's what they're actually trying to do to help people, right? - And those are different ICPs too, right? The dentist who's trying to open a fourth location is different from the entry level dentist who's just getting started opening his first. Versus the guy who is currently sitting there with 15 who wants to exit and needs his actual valuation to be higher, which means that he's cacken to be in line with everything to be able to make that happen and the system needs to be dolled the fuck in for someone to even want to purchase it. - That's a good fucking offer. - Oh, it's amazing, I know, yeah, it's amazing. - That's, yeah, anybody listen to this if you're in the dental world, you should probably steal that and get all of it now. - Well, like it's not so hard, it's just because. It's any niche, it's any niche, right? Like, do you say niche or niche? - It depends on the audience. - It depends who I'm speaking to. I mean, niche like Michelle hates it. - Niche? - She's like, it's niche. I'm like, shut up, bitch. Sorry, shut up, niche. Sorry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna step to that one. So we spend a lot of time here on the person part because it is the most important in my opinion. It fundamentally tells you whether you're going to be able to make this work. For anyone who isn't a client, how we come up with this stuff, big picture, just so you guys are aware, like this is an example of a client's off-linking map. You can see, like, we go really deep in terms, like where is your idol client now? Where do they, where do we want them to be? What are the three or four main big problems or big systems or big things that aren't working in their world right now that we would need to be able to clearly communicate, you know, advertising or in our content or in our, whatever the fuck it is, to be able to make that work or to be able to install, to be able to give them the certainty they need to be able to actually get the outcomes that they want. And then for each of the main problems that they have, or the main solutions or systems they need, why does that thing not currently work? And we break that then into micro problems. So as an example, like if sales and marketing is a problem, but they need to solve and they need to have a system in place from getting higher better quality leads, what are the three or four things that are currently the ingredients that make that problem solved? Or what are the things that are stopping them from being able to actually achieve that right? So it's like, might be high cost, low intent leads is a ingredient through that. It might be an over-aligned on outside factors for growth, it might be a process for sales being fucking terrible if that makes sense, right? Each of those micro things now becomes something that you can turn into a lead magnet or fork and angle, that you can link back to the actual person problem and offer IEV off-linking thing, or like the off-linking premise, which is linking the problems and pain points of your idle customer to the offer itself that someone would want to purchase, IE, linking the offer off-linking, that's where the name came from. I thought it was just cool and it ended up being pretty cool. So I was right. But this is how we come up with these. And if you're a client, you've already got your map. If you aren't a client, we have this done within like four days of getting started and then everything comes from this, your content, your paid advertising, VSL's, YouTube videos, podcasts, daily social marketing, and then the actual pitch that you specifically communicate to someone in your ads, in your VSL's on sales calls, comes from this every single little bit of it, right? So this becomes the foundation and core basis of being able to communicate your value to our higher level markets that most people just don't fucking understand. So I thought I'd just show you an example about what we're here doing this at the same time too. - I think my favorite part about this too, is the specificity of you taking them from where they are right now, the pain, the hell, the shitty situation that they're in. And everything you saw along the way is like a stepping stone to get them to the other side. So that you know, yeah, you know without a shadow of a doubt, every problem you talk about, every solution you give, every podcast, every hook, every ad, is going out to the right person. And I would say this is the big difference from saying, going to chat you, you're going to clot or whatever and saying, hey, I work with dentists, you know, we're trying to get more patients into their practice, give me 50 problems that they suffer from so I can make content from it, or give me 50 hook ideas. You'll get 50 hook ideas, but you're basically rolling the dice. - Yeah, but they can trash, it's unlocked. So they might be good, it's unlikely it's gonna be specifically designed for the person you actually want to get into the sales call. Right? - And that's why I would say even if they did come back good, even if you had the best fucking hook in the world, the best hook in the world to the wrong person is useless in your business. - I remember one of the things that stuck with me in my head for years is like, Mark at the pain point you won on the sales call. - 100%. - Mark at the pain point that you won on the sales call is always the thing that I recall and remember more than anything else, right? But this is the cool basis and foundation of you being able to do this. And the cool thing is, right, is like there isn't a, because it's based on human behavior, human psychology and the actual like core DNA of a human that you're working with. There is zero markets this hasn't worked with. I have a, I have used the offer linking map to help my friends attract their ideal girl. (laughs) I've literally used this to help them identify who they want, where they can't they at, where they wanna be, and they're using content and the way that they speak to women to be able to influence, to be able to get, and this is not in a negative way. It's like, Mark, so optimizing your profile for this type of woman you want comes from a great offer linking that, right? - Yeah. - It works legit. I've got enough evidence. We have DM scripts for Tinder, I think, for some cause. It's fucking hilarious. (laughs) We, we, we, we nailed this. - Is that an upsell? (laughs) - It's a bout to be. It's a bout to be, right? - Yeah. - But the, the, the thing is that the reason why I'm so confident that if someone would have come and worked with us that I only care what industry you work, you know, what market you serve, or what level of business under you want to achieve the privilege of working with. Doing this and doing this right makes it so that I can take any ICP and offer and turn it into cash for you. Literally any. It doesn't matter who you work with, what you do or what you want to actually achieve with them, this solves the problem. - Absolutely. I think people are going to want to know about the thing they care about the most, which is office, right? Does it matter? - No, not at all. - Generally, like, (laughs) - That was a matter. - I would say your offer has more of an impact on your business than anything else. - So I would say, so like the person that you serve 100%, that's number one, your offer is the thing that you have the most control over though. Unless you go and solve, unless you go and hit an entirely different market, your market's always going to be the biggest thing. Your offer is what you're taking to that market. But your offer fundamentally will make or break your business going to that market. And there's a lot of things that are wrapped up in that statement. But my first business mentor told me, he said, "You can either have a sailboat or you can have a robot." He said, "You're going to be working just as hard in both, but one of them is going to take you a lot farther." He said, "That's your offer." And having a good offer is like having a sail. Having a shitty offer is like being a robot. You can row your ass off. - How do you know you have a good offer? - A good offer is something that a client actually wants, fundamentally. There's desire there. If you talk about it, people come to you almost like magnetically. That's where I think magnetic marketing, magnetic offers. That's where that whole thing kind of came from. But fundamentally, it's something that you don't feel like you have to ram it down your client's throat. - Mm. - Right? That's the big thing. - I've always just thought about it as a solution to a problem. Right? I've always just thought about it as like if person A can't get to Z, like they're currently at C and they can't get to Z. My offer is, "Would you like me to hope you get to Z by not heading your life?" Right? It's fundamentally a solution to a problem that the person is currently experiencing. And then it's explaining the way that you do it. Is this what I always say? Right? But in ads, if we're talking about offers in general, right? What do you think's like working right now? Because I think that offers is an interesting and interesting thing to you. If you've got direct offers, then you've got indirect offers. I've personally seen way more benefit over the years with indirect lead magnet type offers that aren't like A can work with me right now. But my God, they feel the pipeline to do great things. What are you seeing working that is working? - So it's funny. I hear people all the time they say, Oh, never run an indirect offer. Indirect offers don't work made millions of dollars. on Interact offers. I've made more on Interact than I have under acts so make for that what it will. Interact is a lot easier when you understand, like I said, getting the right person to raise their hand for the right reason. When you can do that, then you can have a conversation with them and you can even talk to them about their situation. You can even actually get to the point where you're discussing the offer. A lot of now what I'm seeing with direct offers is everybody's got the or you don't pay harmotely style guarantee and then most people are sitting there. Yeah. You're better than that. Yeah, they're they're dragging themselves, they're calling bullshit. They just they don't even trust you. Friends don't let friends or you don't pay. Yeah. It's you know the thing is like people people say like oh well it works the economics work or whatever then they'll they'll back out of it that way and go yeah we know we made a 2x row as on our direct offer and we did X amount and it's like yeah you know what it's not doing though it is damaging your brand's reputation in a lot of ways. You think about it. If somebody's first interaction with you is scammy spammy whatever gagging. Is that really the first impression you want to have? Right? Whereas if you're coming up and you're saying hey here's this cool thing. I know you probably have this problem. I can solve it for you. Here's this thing. It's totally free. You know I don't expect anything from you. Just check it out. Use it. If you like it, then reach back out. Maybe I can get you some more stuff. That's a way fucking better first impression. Yeah I can see that. You know it's like the old frank-kern right? Help somebody by actually helping them. That's always been the philosophy that I've had right. And I've always thought about because the offer to me is always just been like how do we entice them and show them that we can solve the problem so that they I eventually want to work with me whether it's right now or not. But we've always had such a strong, you'd set up PLA, like pie ticket sales organization, right? We've always had such a strong understanding of what it takes to convert leads along the term. But it's usually not the first time you speak to someone that they've become a client. It's having a good process for being able to turn someone from a lead intel client over a period of time. And I've always found that having someone come in like a lead magnet top of funnel type offer has always worked really well because it starts a good conversation based on this is the philosophy that I have here right? It's like if you get someone to opt in for someone that says that they want to get to eight figures, right? That person now associates you with helping them get to eight figures in there, right? And if you're offer in this scenario for the lead magnet, clearly explains the pathway to it. Now they're attaching everything that you say or everything that they believe about you to the pathway that you've come to show them to be able to achieve that outcome and the dream outcome that they want by you. Seven figures, eight figures, multi location, whatever the fuck it is if that makes sense, right? And then every conversation that you have with them, that's what's in the back of their mind about the conversation they naturally want to have a you in the first place. And that's always been the game I've wanted to play because if I can get them to believe all those things before we get to an actual conversation about the way we can get them there, who we are, how we help, what we do, and the outcome that I want you to have in mind as you're talking to me, the whole way through it, then I don't care if it's a direct offer, an indirect offer or a fucking person knocking on your door, at least I'm having the right conversation with you. Yeah, right conversation with the right person. That's been what's the most important to me anyway, right? Now, what are we coming up with office? You know, I think the majority of it comes from a version of offer linking, right? Whether that's fundamentally sitting down with the offer linking map and thinking, what is the problem that we can solve for them right now? Or it's taking a coaching call or something like that, and then using AI to highlight those same things, which fundamentally is kind of where a lot of the offer linking data comes from, right? But it's it's it's being hyper specific and finding out, again, what is the problem that this person has? How can we solve it for them in a way that makes sense? Right? And then creating something around it that, you know, is desirable for them at the end of the day, right? So if you think about the offer again, it's it's something that is solving the right problem for the right person in a desirable way. If you can nail those things, keyword, they're being desirable. If I told you, I'm like, Hey, we can get you to 500 grand a month, but you have to personally cold call every fucking lead 24 hours a day for a month. You're not going to be able to do it. So whether it work, yeah, you know what I mean? There's there's there's too much friction there, right? So there has to actually be the desire to do it. So for an agency, you know, or, you know, high ticket sales organization, right? If they're trying to come up with an offer to run top of funnel, it's going to bring leads in for them. What should they be thinking about in order to be able to do that? The best place to start is always outcome based. Right? So if you are a marketing agency owner and you're looking to attract, say, dentist, right? It would be a playbook to the effect of here's how, you know, here's the exact steps you can take to get 10 to 12 new patients this week, right? Free download, right? What now? Let's break down why that works? Okay? Patients, dental clients, right? Specifically if you do something like implants or whatever that, then you know exactly what I think. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's outcome based, right? We're going to get 10 to 12 new patients this week. It's time bound, right? And then bonus points if you're like, here's how? You know, using XYZ, right? Using low cost meta ads, using Google my business, whatever it is, right? And then that somebody will see it, they'll get it for the right reason. Oh, I've heard about meta ads. Oh, I know I should be on Google my business. Oh, I'd love to have 10 to 12 new implant clients this week. Right? They're downloading it for the right reason. Right? You're not going to have a contractor download that. Yep. You know, this is where people say, oh, how do you get to 20 K a month in your business? What kind of business? How? What are we doing? What kind of, who is this for? So for you, if you guys are clients and you want to know, like how to get more help on this stuff in general anyway, the smartest place to come to is the ads chat that are Victor runs. So we're talking, uh, offers in here pretty much every day. Um, you'll, you'll see if it would drop in in their off-linking maps. We have a couple of offers in particular. We have the like offer to add ecosystem and then the predictable, uh, sorry, the paid pipeline, playbook, actual training to be able to show you guys how to turn all those into offers. But did I show you the outcome based off our GPT? I credit. I don't think so. Oh, dude, this is gas. Kind of open this up. Go here. GPTs. My GPTs. Yeah. My GPTs. Let's just bring up a, um, what's it called? Off-apply ready worksheet as well. Actually, do actually, I'll just put out some off-apply ready worksheet. Um, so if I just, this is like our particular right? So if I copy and paste this and I go to outcome based playbook generator that I created, it's still pretty new. Um, and I drop in our, uh, worksheet here. It tells us who the ICP is, the current state, the design state, the best measurable metric that we want to actually talk about in the advertising, the, uh, the identity transformation to talk about in angles and hooks, the dream outcome and then the alternative framing of those things. And then it tells us what the whole customer journey would look like for them end to end. So the top list here becomes everything about the actual playbook and in the middle is all the middle of funnel stuff that you can do, right? So, trademark, playbook options, it gives us like, fucking seven and they're all fire too, right? Like the team led seven big of business playbook, um, the 100-per-ange, uh, KPM Month, uh, road map, um, the owner independent business playbook and you can play around with the language and everything else too, but it literally does it for you, right? Um, so if you're a client, uh, the link to this will be in circle under the AI tools and everything else as well, but this is literally the quickest way to be able to come up with those outcome voice playbooks. Have you not seen this? I don't think so. I'll send it to you for sure. It's fine. Yeah. So amazing. Um, okay, so the, uh, the offer we want to do an outcome based offer, some sort whether it's direct offer or it's a playbook, personally more or preference wise, I'm more a playbook guy because you just get better conversations. I think out, uh, did we have three dollars fifty seven legions that do something like that? Three dollars fifty seven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We booked three calls already off that. Do you know what a cost per column that is? Because I don't. 30 to 40 bucks. Oh no. Right. Oh no. 30 to 40 dollars in the hardest fucking market on planet Earth. Literally. Literally the hardest market. I literally market to the hardest people in the world because you guys are marketers, right? And we're getting 30 to 40 dollar calls. Oh no. Right? Um, okay. Cool. Uh, one of the things that I thought was interesting about the as we had a client. I don't know if you saw this as well. What's it called? Testimonials chat. He started with us like on Friday last week. Already moving new ads in place and he's already he's he's got the lead magnet offer up and it's already producing leads and he's been in the program for like four days, right? So in that four day time frame, it's been offer linking map. New ads are playable in producing leads already. Shit's fucking quick when you do that right as well. There was another guy too who came in and I remember when he came in as I remember the name. I can't remember him now, but he came in at like 5k and I seen his win the other day and he was up to like what was it 30 or 40k already? Nikita. Oh, Nikita. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He came in at like 5k and I always shock how like well not shocked, but it was like dude made progress fast. Man, he was running for very long. Yeah, very very very very very fast. He's a savage too. Yeah. Simon, let's talk about what's next. I think I think the next thing is creative. But is that the same for you or? Yeah, let's hit it. I think that's the most the most related. All right, so let's talk creative, right? Because when we're talking ads here too, I think that we have three different places, right? You've got top, middle and bottom of funnel. How do we know what to do at each stage? Yeah, top again, it comes back to who do you want, right? If you think of it like a funnel, think of you top of funnel like an entrance gate to a theme park, right? Everybody who you let in through that front gate is who everything else is going to go to. All your ads for your concession and your rides and everything, that's all going to be shared with the people that you let in at the front. So if you have a shitty top of funnel ad that speaks to the wrong person, all that audience is going to be filled with is low quality leads. Right? Again, so that comes back to like who are you attracting? Why are you attracting them? What is the thing they're coming in for? You know, middle of funnel is now it's like, okay, now you're in, right? But you haven't bought anything yet. Why haven't you bought this yet? What do we want to put in front of them? Yeah, exactly. So is this an urgency problem? Is this I don't have enough information problem? Right? Is this I don't know you well enough problem or I don't trust you well enough? Right? And so a lot of time middle of funnel or is it maybe I just forgot? I just didn't even know. I didn't know they had chocolate covered pretzels. I fucking love those. I'm going to go get those right now. You just put up a sign, right? And so sometimes that's just having that little nudge of an offer. The other things is it's having content. And so that's where offer linking is super cool because you just take content. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Content is ads. Yeah, you just take you take your offer linking all the lead magnets, all the other things and you target those middle of funnel and then that hits it. I don't know you very well. Hey, then you just solve my problem again. This guy solved two problems for me and I just found out about him last week. I think I kind of like this guy. They they seem like they can help. You know, he seems like he knows more about this problem that I do. Right? Probably maybe he doesn't hire you right then and there after the second one, but then he sees a third one where he says, Hey, chocolate pretzels. Right. Oh, shit. I love chocolate pretzels. I'm going to go get some of those now. Right. And bottom of funnel is the same way that's now we're just saying it's more direct, right? Booking with us now, book your console, whatever it is. Get your free thing. Again, that's your like sales qualified lead now at that point where it's not just like, Hey, download the thing. It's it could be a free console. It could be a direct offer, you know, whatever it is. It's to get them over the line to actually speak with you know, right? A seven-figure game plan, whatever it is, you know, a what's the one that you use the when they're trying to sell the dental agency? It could be like, you know, an analysis, right? Find out how much money you're leaving on the top. I also, I think like that. Yeah, that makes sense. So the top of funnel for us right now that we are running and that we're having a lot of clients run is the playbook, right? So our comb based playbook is a funnel. Middle of funnel. It's a lot of the journey based stuff, right? Like we're putting a lot of content middle of funnel. And I think something we're not talking about here that makes ads work or is like something that's really important is like, there needs to be a lot of content out there for you guys to be able to make this work too, right? Like we are doing this podcast right now and this podcast is going to go as a part of our middle of funnel fucking advertising that will be long form out there middle of funnel paid that will have a direct offer associated to it. So this will go to a calendar link for someone to book in and say yes, I'd love to explore working with you guys if that makes sense, right? We want people to be consuming as much content as humanly possible. And I think that a huge mistake that a lot of people are making is they're leading it just to the ad and having nothing else out there for someone else to consume by themselves to be able to like pre convert the middle way that actually is meaningful that someone would show up wanting to buy without the meeting to have a fucking word to war that right? But when you're thinking middle of funnel in terms of like how were you thinking about the content that we should put out? Yeah, so again, it was like just like I was saying like I don't know you. I don't know if you can help, right? I don't know enough about the problem myself potentially, right? And so like being able to cross again, it's if you if you were to draw the offer linking map out there, that's how I think about middle of funnel. It's like they like I think I have an ad going over one right now. Yeah, I think of it is almost like a like a little frog that's got a hop from stone to stone to get to the other side of the creek. That's hop a funnel to bottom of funnel and that's your offer link here right there. So all the different things that you got to hit along the more of them you hit, the easier that journey is for them to cross. So as an example, in this offer linking map, the this is for someone who's running a roofing company and they're trying to help someone go from selling like one roof a week to a roof a day. That's the offer gets a roof a day. So good offer. I'm sorry. That's a good offer. Great offer. We put it together of course, it's a great offer. But the the problems are like marketing itself as a problem one systems and table problem two, problem two and then leadership and culture are problem three. You could come up with five playbooks for each of these for top of funnel, but middle of funnel, whichever one it isn't that they're running top of funnel. We run as much middle of funnel as much middle of funnel as humanly possible as well. This also comes down to like this paid and then there's organic middle of funnel two because like everything organic in my opinion is all middle of funnel stuff. Again, this podcast or YouTube video wherever you're watching it right now is a middle of funnel asset that will help someone want to or someone to do their own exploration as to whether they want to work with us or not. But you want to create as much content from everything in the middle here that relates back to where they are and where they want to go and then use it in your day to day content on Instagram, Facebook, wherever your current platform is in your stories in long form content. The preference for me right now is the podcast style thing we're doing right now because it's easy and we can just break stuff down for people. But you can run it as ads. You can send it as emails. It can be middle of funnel also is the conversation to having a dams with people, right? Like every new podcast video, every new YouTube video we do, we send out to the pipeline like fucking like a wild rash that spreads and we have this in and get out and put new content in people's inbox so they consume it if that makes sense, right? Because every single video we do has a micro-pitch in it. I think the before I said you should message me to get the 50k playbook and I also said this will run as an ad as well. So everything in it explains the way we work with someone and it explains a reason for somebody to reach out to us. So it's a middle of funnel asset that produces a conversation with someone about wanting to work with you, right? And the way that we come up with is like every micro problem and every micro solution here is a middle of funnel topic to talk about in terms of like how do you have so an example like the examples at the bottom here are like if you want to help someone get to a roof a day, a topic to talk about is like what is the neighborhood marketing process to get to a roof a day? What is the referral system to get to a roof a day? What's the lead generation systems to get to a roof a day? The cell process to crush a roof a day, the accountability framework to have your team crush a roof a day and you can take each of those and contextually make it really fucking simple for somebody to be able to actually create new content that they can consume that shows your whole customer journey explains how you help in each of those areas and becomes content galore. But guess what else it does? This we can turn into a top of funnel asset that turns into a lead magnetic content ad that we will generate numbers from and also start conversations with top of funnel again once we get this full content piece out which is what we're doing a lot of right now because it's a landing page it has its own email sequence it has its own top of funnel middle of funnel and bottom of funnel asset associated to this. So there's a direct offer associated to this and a middle of funnel ad and a top of funnel lead man to direct ad as well. And I think that the content piece is wildly under wildly under focused on in terms of what needs to happen to be able to get people to believe why they should buy from you. And again, the off linking map gives you all the different content pieces that you need to create all the podcasts or YouTube videos, the daily content that then turns into your ads. Top middle of bottom of my phone. It feeds everything your content, your ads, your emails, your lead magnets, your offers it literally is the it's like a waterfall. Yep. Right. And you think about the problem there too, like a neighborhood marketing system or a neighborhood referral system that could be a lead magnet right it could be a step by step lead man. It could be a real. It could be a real you could turn that into a YouTube video. You could turn that into a fucking local seminar where you invited rufers around the county to show up and learn that specific thing right now, but you would sell that out real fast too. Right. That was that was one little blip on the on the offer linking. That's right. And you know, that's that's the value of doing that too, because it makes it so easy to be able to influence anyone in your market. Anything else on creative. I think from a from a journey part there that's that's good. I could drop a tip on how to come up with creatives. Yeah, a lot of times people they struggle. They like, I don't know what to write. I've got this idea. I want to get an ad out and I don't know what this is. So how I do it is I like to take one body or two bodies potentially. And then I'll write four to eight different hooks on the top. And if I'm filming something. I mean, you know, this gets that you feel this probably 15 hundred times. That's right. Yeah. But how hard is that to film right when you've got a film one to two bodies you film like one to two long forms. And then you're filming just eight or whatever, however many hooks that you're doing. And you're just filming little five to 10 second clips. And then you just cut them and add them onto the body. Yep. Right. And then before you know it, you've got 16 ads. Yep. Right. All with different hooks. All to the same body or same offer that you know is going to work because it came from your offer linking. sheet. Yep. And then with the solid CTA that also it goes to lead magnet that came from that. The other thing we could do is sometimes is we'll do a direct offer at the end of it. Where it's like, hey, if you want to work with us. And then that's something you would drop bottom of final. Makes sense. Yeah. But a lot of times people get overwhelmed. They're like, I'm supposed to launch eight creatives a week. And I don't know how to come up with eight unique ideas. You don't. You need one idea and eight different hooks. Talk to me about something that I know people would care about. Budgets across. Talk me from bottom. Yeah. So this is this kind of goes back to testing, right? I always tell people I'm like, when you're starting out, almost all your budget goes to testing, right? If you're not running any ads, it goes. All the whole thing goes. Soon as you find something that works. Soon as you find something that's a winner. 80% of that needs to go to that immediately. I see so many people. They get stuck in this like, I don't, you know, I'm just always testing. I'm always testing. Everybody says all that it always testing. But I'm not getting any results. What's because testing is expensive. Sure. Because it most of it doesn't work. 90% of your tests are going to fail. It's not more, right? And that's just fundamentally how marketing works is nothing you can do about it. So when you find something that works, you want to gas the fuck out of it. That's your top of funnel budget. Yeah. Right. So within that 80% 70 to 80% goes into top of funnel. Right. Roughly 10% middle of funnel and 10% bottom of funnel within that 10% right. That 10% is going a long way in those two areas. For sure. Because those are relatively small audiences. So sometimes I'll go like 75, 15 and 10. That does pretty well. Once we've hit like a certain level of scale, I'll dump it down to like 70, 2010 or something like 70, 15, 15, it kind of depends on the metrics. But most of your budget needs to go top of funnel. Right. If you're following the offer linking process to where you're putting that out organically, the middle and bottom of funnel happen organically alone. So you want to get as many people as possible from that top of funnel into your organic stuff as one when I say organic. I don't just mean like posting organic reals. I'm talking about your email list, your sales process, your YouTube's potentially like everything every part, every interaction that happens with that company. Now is middle and bottom of funnel. Right. So you want to you want to put as much gas as possible into that winning thing top of funnel. Right. Always always. You know, that's the biggest thing that I can say about budgets. And then when it comes to testing, like you've still got 20% of whatever that budget is. So if you're spending a hundred bucks a day, for example, right. 80 80 should go to your scaling, which is your top middle bottle or top middle bottom. 20 bucks a day should go to testing. Now I'm going to ask you think you can test for 20 bucks a day. Like two. Yeah. There's not many. Not if you want to actually get any results from it. It's going to take a week to do so. Right. You might be able to test one, but the $80 a day is pretty much all going towards now that winner. Mm hmm. Right. And this is exactly what happened the other day when we start getting $3 a leads. It's like, all right. Let's hammer the gas. Yep. Push down. I'm not going to go now test a whole bunch of different creators. We go, I think we can do better in 375. I'm going to shoot for a buck. Talk to me about what we should do in terms of expectations. Because like, I think that the cost controls is a big thing and it sort of fits with your budget as well. Right. So like cost per lead. Cost per call cost per acquisition. What are we sort of hoping for or expecting across these things? Because like, it's going to vary. And I think that my experience has always been, if I can get a customer for like. Anywhere from 1500 bucks to 2 grand. Then I'm fucking stoked because more often than not when we work with someone they can keep them for fucking multiple years because the outcome based offers designed to help someone keep them for years. Right. Yeah. Then the cost of 2 grand to get a client is. It ends up being a return of like 120 extra something over time. So it's so it's fucking fine. Right. But like what should someone be thinking in terms of like a costable call cost per lead cost acquisition that isn't terrible. So on the front end, a good, a good metric to keep in mind is if you're doing better than like a 2x cash collected or a 4x total like month, month one revenue. You're doing really well. Right. That's where I would, especially if you're in an MRR offer. Like if you got to remember that right. If you can say you say you're doing 2k or sorry 3k a month in your MRR offer, which would be on the low end. Right. If you are getting clients for 1500 bucks. Right. And you're getting 3k collected your revenue on the back end of that, assuming they're going to stay for at least three months is 9k. Right. You just paid 1500 bucks for 9k pretty well guaranteed. Yep. Right. You cash might be a little bit lower on the front end. Right. But they're going to stick longer because of that LTV. Right. As well. We need to make sure that people actually keep in their fucking clients and everything else to. Because otherwise, otherwise that goes to shit. Yeah, business will go to shit. It'll it'll crash if you can't keep them. Right. Yeah. That's where the direct offers part also goes to die very quickly because the people say, well, we're going to inflate our claims and say, are you don't pay. Well, guess what happens. People don't pay. And then what happens to the business. Those guys go to business pretty quickly. So yeah. Two excursion, elected on front end is something that if we look at that can maintain the ad spend and we want to look at like rising ads spend and costs within that once we're starting to get a good cost to acquire a client and it's profitable in that respect at the same time too. And I think that it's starting budget and cost for everyone is like, honestly, I think that anything like 50 bucks a day is probably fine. But truthfully, if you are looking to start learning how to bring your own leads in this respect. It's like, I didn't care if it's five or 10 bucks a day, just like getting the game. If that makes sense, get in the game. Because you can, especially with the outcome based offers for like, you know, contract and real estate, fucking any of these different markets, right, even if you serve coaches or whatever else that it is, you can get leads for like five to 10 bucks. Right. So, And if you want actively like in the game doing this stuff, it just takes longer for you to be able to actually start knowing what it takes to access into that into money. Because I think it's a huge issue too, right, like one of the biggest things about winning an ad is like you need to be really good at learning how to actually run the sales process like the high ticket sales organization aspect, which is like a lot of people get to the point where they run ads. And they're like, I don't leave the shit, but they're just terrible understanding the human behavior side of setting and sales to actually convert someone from these areas. And that's why I think the The lead magnet author or top of funnel lead magnet outcome based label style offers way more forgiving than a direct Fuck you pay me money right now offer because you actually get to have a conversation with someone about where they're out where they want to be and What they want to do to be able to get there if you can base the conversation on the sales call on right after my speech That's right And I think that's an area that a lot of people fuck up in because like most of these sales are one by having a really good sales process Most of winning in ads is actually having a great sales or a great sales organization behind the scenes great follow-up operations great all these different areas Right, and I think one of the areas that I think is really annoying is that You all fucking say that like I hate when clients don't follow up with their leads, but you guys don't do it like why that right? Like how you guys can plan the car the The the contracting company will work with the shit sales person this stuff it sells and then you are exactly what you say you hate in your own process Like I don't understand It'd be so dulled in in settings so dulled in in sales so dulled in in sales process you need to use the layoffs Sales process playbook that we have in in the program if you're a client of ours You need to be talking to Kyle every single week on the setting stuff. You need to be going to the Whereas the fast setting in sales feedback chat getting converted back and finding out how the fuck that your numbers or your team did their numbers every single week And then you need to actually playbook in place to actually get a setting team in place because there's no fucking way you get it to this alone after a period of time You can do it you can do it up until about 40 or 50k But after that you want to try and get a setter You need to get somebody into help. Yeah, are you gonna burn out at a set? We know one thing I'll say one thing that I've learned a ton even just since since working with you since Well from before too, but more so now and working like really close to Kyle I consider myself genuinely pretty good at sales. I'm not a sales person I'm not I'm not on that side, but just because I've done everything at this point You guys are genuinely world class at Like sales ops pipeline follow up all that stuff and so like even just watching How you guys do it? I'm like holy shit. I've said I did I've worked with so many different high ticket businesses people who have taught sales People who have you know done the business upside of it people have done like remote sales and stuff like that and Nobody teaches that Realistically like nobody nobody goes to the depth that you guys do when it comes to that to actually operate at that kind of level In a way that actually makes sense I agree Yeah, and you are person number like 500 who is at a high level who's said that and I think that's why we've always won Because we focus on the sales operations side not on just the advertising side I think I put a post up yesterday saying like The people who win the the people who typically tend to win the most other ones who See that it sells operations first and then fill the top of fun with ads, right? The guys who typically tend to stay stuck at a certain revenue level are looking at it the opposite way around It's like when I get a lead in then I'll do sales activity, but it's like It's like I do sales activity and because I do sales activity I get a high rowers. Yeah, right And I think so many people get that shit twisted Um the reason why you can convert from ads is because of tourists good sales operations great content Right, I think it's when you couple those two things in any ad that you do as long as it's positioned accurately is going to win for you Oh, it's lethal absolutely lethal when you combine those Shoot to it. Yeah, hey, we really about that we really look at me left because we need to hop onto this fucking team call right Um, I'm found a look at it to do this by myself. What do I need to do tactically in the next seven days to be able to get something proper from this Find a problem that your client has create a playbook for it Pull out your phone shoot a just a quick and dirty real or get chat GPT to mock you up a you know quick and dirty ad saying Here's the thing. Here's what we're going to help you do uh, here's how you get it Right, you slap that up there put 50 bucks stay behind it and start getting some people in your in your inbox Right, that's the best thing you can do right now everything from from there To above that is nuance and addition but until you get to that point right once you start doing that you're in the game Hmm Guys, I hope you enjoyed this um if you are a high ticket service business agency coach consultant fucking uh financial advisor Whatever else it is you run a high ticket online service business that helps another B2B business actually serve someone else Um, there's a link below if you want us to actually review what you're doing and see how to actually help you scout the seven or multiple seven figures I'm happy to review that order your current process is that what it current ads figure out why you need the wrong people in Um and be able to help you figure out a true roadmap where you work with us or not to be able to get to the next level Um, whereas appreciate you dude um We'll have to do this again. This was great. I think we should actually talk more about the sales operations side because most people fucking suck at it Um, if you're a client make sure you show up to the Wednesday Uh appetizing calls make sure you are in the ads chat consistently getting feedback on what's going on And the sales operations chat or the fast setting and sales feedback chat to make sure that you guys are actually sending this shit into money Anyway guys catch you soon. Thank you so much for watching and uh Hope you guys win and a pleasure