What REALLY Happens When You Investigate the Epstein Class Elites... | Nick Bryant

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Is it in your estimation having been to a lot of these places as well and spoken with a bunch of these people over the years? Do you think it's because a lot of the people that are actually in mainstream media genuinely don't give a fuck about the worst kinds of abuse or do you think it's because the space is totally captured by interests where they don't even have a say in the matter. So I think it's a little bit of both. You've got a case, Chris Hedges was a superstar at the New York Times. Want to pull his surprise? Chris Hedges? Yeah. And he knew, he told me that, and I believe this, a number of people knew that when Bush came out with that Saddam Hussein has what is a massive destruction. A lot of people know it was bullshit, and I mean, it was being deconstructed almost in real time on the internet. And he said the emperor has no clothes, and he got fired. He got fired for that. Chris Hedges, let's pull that up, good, stood on business. The New York Times fired him because he said, I think they're wrong. Well, yeah. I mean, it was very obvious to all of them, but what did he tell you made it obvious at the time? I mean, it's very obvious now. But like when he saw it while it was happening, he was reporting in the Middle East. So he knew he was pretty plugged into that area, and then there, a friend of mine was an editor at a large magazine, and he's a free thinker. And the people that worked at that magazine were on a reservation that they didn't even know they were on. Their minds were, you know, so myopic that, and they didn't even know that. Imagine that being so in your own world that you don't even know that you're Truman. I mean, his boss didn't believe that there was blackmail going on with the Epstein case. I mean, that's how naive she was, your friend. My friend's boss, yeah. And then my friend would, would like submit an article by me like once a year or so. And I wrote a book about Watergate and did at the heart of Watergate is a CIA honey trap. That's how I got turned on to the underside of the Watergate story. When did you write that book? I came out a couple of years ago, two or three years ago. It's a good book. So I had a lot of evidence that Bob Woodward is a pathological liar or serial liar. I don't know the difference. But he lies a lot and I nailed him in his Watergate reporting. He lies a lot. And can you explain like some of the things he would lie about? Well, he said that there was this omniscient source deep throat. Yeah, deep throat. That gave him all this information. And deep throat, Mark Felt, who he said was deep throat, could have given him some information, but there's no way. And then Woodward said that Woodward said that he would move the flower pot on his balcony. And that would signal deep throat to meet that night and then they would take all these cabs and things like that and they meet at a parking lot in Virginia. So Mark Felt, during this period, had been fired by the FBI. And he wasn't Mark Felt, wasn't revealed till he died, I believe, right? Yeah. After he had Alzheimer's. And I, like I said, I'm sure he gave it over some information. But so we're supposed to believe that the dude would drove into Washington, D.C. every day and looked at Woodward's balcony. And here's the thing about Woodward's balcony, it was in the back of the building. It was facing like a courtyard. So you would have to, you would, you would have to drive into the alley and get on your car and walk probably about 60 feet and look directly up. Or he had a trap house. And then, and then if deep throat wanted to contact Woodward, he would put on a certain page of the New York Times, he put, he put a clock there, but at the time that they want to meet. Okay. So, so he would draw a clock and leave the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It worked. Okay. So, but that apartment building, everybody, all the New York Times were put into a pile. And everybody just got, so there's so much line. And Alexander Hagg was really the source that was the death now. Who was Alexander Hagg? He was Nixon's chief of staff. He didn't like Nixon. You know what's funny? We look at Watergate now and yeah, obviously it was like this thing where there was lies and cover-ups and they literally broken and stole some shit, but you compare it to the shit we have now. Yeah. It's a Tuesday. I mean, Nick, a month and a half ago, the White House situation room tapes were leaked to the New York Times. Nobody's talking about it. That would be like a biblical scandal in any other era, but we are so inundated with there is so much noise of such insane, no fucking way that's actually true, but oh my god, it's true stories that something like Watergate today, I don't even know if it would make the front page. Watergate wouldn't even be a blip today. And Nixon actually listened to the court and surrendered the tapes. I don't think any president recently would actually have surrendered the tapes. So what have listened to the court? Yeah, and then their attorney general would go in front of the fucking Senate and be like, yeah, why are you breaking the law? Because we want to. Okay. No further questions. It's like, what the fuck, man? Well, as I was saying earlier, when you've got a lot of compromised people in the government, you're going to end up with the government that we have. They're not. So you had the weapons of mass distraction line, no heads rolled. You had the financial meltdown, destroyed millions of Americans, millions of Americans last year, no heads rolled. You had Snowden's disclosures about how we're being legally spied on, no heads rolled. And then you've got very strong evidence that that virus came out of the Wuhan lab, no heads rolled. And the USAID and the CDC were finding it and chances are it was getting a function, no heads rolled. So Americans have to quit eating shit. I mean, as Americans, our government is destroying us. And we have to quit eating shit. And I think, and I think that there's two factors involved with this. I think that Americans have been conditioned to believe that they can't affect change. And Americans have been conditioned to hate the other side. The right thinks the left is medleyel and the left thinks the right is medleyel. Yes. At this point, I mean, that's where it's descended to. Yes. So that's an easy divide and conquer between Americans believing that they can't affect change. And then this divide and conquer. Even as long as we have that, we're never going to be able to see democracy. One of if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link about a subscription below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already, I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. Yeah, I get a little cynical about this. I have to admit it and for a lot of the same reasons that you just laid out, the one place where I'm like, maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel is the recent trend I've seen this year. When the late end, we'll talk about it obviously in a little bit, but when the latest tranche of Epstein documents dropped in the end of January, and then when we went to a war with the Ron at the end of February, there are now two major issues that for the sense of the spectrum on the left and the right, whether they like this or not, agree on. I mean, my show, it's really unique in the sense that we have a really balanced audience, which I think is so fucking cool. But I will see back-to-back DMs from people who are clearly hardcore liberal and then clearly hardcore conservative saying that maybe they say it a little different, but saying the same things, and I can't think of a time in the last decade where that was really the case. And so I do wonder, you talk about, we have to stop eating shit. I completely agree. It's a great point. And the cynic of me says people are still going to complain and then go home and watch their Netflix and, you know, get on with life. But there are enough people that even now sitting here in end of July, beginning of August, that are still pissed about this stuff that is now, you know, five, six months old, which in today's society apparently is very old, that it's like, maybe this is like the ember. They just can't quite put out. Maybe this is a moment where we could have that deep, deep, that possible. What makes the emcee an issue dangerous to our leaders is that the right and the left can agree that children shouldn't be molested with him. That's right. I mean, the right and the left can't agree on much, but they can agree on this. And I started an organization called Epstein Justice, or a 501(c)(3), and our goal is to get an independent congressional commission to investigate Epstein. And we're going to need a lot of people. We're going to need a lot of help. But an independent congressional commission can decouple itself from the political system. What we see now in the political system, we know that the current administration isn't going to indict anyone because of their Epstein moment. I mean, it's demonstrated that time and time again. But then you've got the Democrats having these quote-unquote shadow hearings where they're allowing these Epstein co-conspirators to lie to them. I mean, I'll give you an example, Les Wexner said the last time he ever dealt with Epstein was 2006 when they've got emails from 2008. And then Epstein gave Wexner $51 million, or $56 million in 2011. Now I don't care how rich you are. You don't forget about $56 million. Yeah. So we know that the current administration isn't going to indict, but those Democrats what they can do is put in referrals for indictments. They could take that perjured testimony and put in referrals for indictment. So it's at least on record so that individual is potentially can be prosecuted. And they're not even doing that. That's a dog and pony show. And the only way, and I believe this, the only way we're going to get justice, and I think we can do it, I think enough Americans can come together on this, is an independent congressional commission that decouples itself from the political system. As long as this is hooked up to the political system, we're never going to have justice. Can you explain how that would work? Because when I hear that, and I'm sure when a lot of people out there are hearing that, they still hear congressional. So it's still in the middle of DC. It's still in the middle of the belly of the beast. What's going to make this particular setup you have in mind different? With independent congressional commissions, investigations and other issues are also farmed out to people that aren't government personnel like who? Like investigators, wherever people's expert, whatever that independent congressional commission is about, a lot of times they're farmed out to people who are experts in that particular. So people might think of like the Mueller-invested investigation though and be like, "Well, that worked well." No, that was not an independent congressional committee. But he was a special prosecutor brought in separately and then it was a shit show, right? Yeah, independent congressional commissions are okay. So they require majority in the House and majority in the Senate. And I think that we can shame our politicians into giving us an independent, because with Mueller, he was still connected to the political system. Of course. Whereas what we're proposing, and this is the only way we're going to get any kind of justice, is an independent congressional. All right. So let me ask you this. I hate. I'm sorry. I hate to be cynical on this issue though. I have to do a cynical people. I have to admit, I am just because of what we've seen. But like they do that, whoever gets appointed to help with that process, whether it's three people or five people, ten, but whatever it is, they're all humans. They all got flaws and they all think they have constitutional rights until they start going to places that just aren't convened for the people that decide who has constitutional rights and who doesn't. And some of those people, they get appointed to the commission that maybe someone like you successfully helps lobby to get, you know, gets put on it. And then they get a call from someone with no pun intended and very deep throat of voice that says, listen up, motherfucker. You ain't finding shit. And here's what you're going to do. What stops that from happening? Well, for example, if I was on that commission, I would make sure that it was, if I was on those, to the letter of the law. Okay. And there are other people like me. I hate to be this guy, but that's awesome. But let's say you get named to that commission and you've proven your whole career that you're willing to investigate things all the way down to the detail, which is incredible. And you should be commended for that. But what's to say the first day that you're named the head of that, you know, they don't say everything you ever love is going to die if you don't do X, Y or Z. I have had a death threat and I've had a lot of strange phone calls. Actually, I'm in the Epstein files. I, when I got the black book in 2011, I started calling victims first, but then I started calling Epstein's inner circle. And like who? Well, the one that I got a hold of was Sarah Kelly, I knew it. And she wanted to commiserate with me how poorly the media had treated her and I wasn't really down with that. So our conversation wasn't very prolonged. But it just so happens that someone sent an email. Their name is redacted to Epstein's inner circle, whose names aren't redacted. There's this journalist, Nick Bryant, be aware of him. This is what he looks like. And they had a picture of me and that they dispensed. So I thought that that, and then actually there were three emails about me. One said alert, and so obviously, and can we pull that up, deep on Jamel, that world? But there are courageous people that will not back down from threats. I mean, there's a lot, I've met a lot of them over the years. Yeah, Gary Webb, guys like that, and then they end up dead. Well, Gary Webb, unfortunately, I have a chance to believe that he killed himself. He was bipolar and he'd rank a lot, but Tom O'Neal is a guy that just hung in there. For, I mean, he spent 20 years of his life on chaos. But I've met a lot of courageous people over the years. And it wouldn't be hard to get a number of courageous people together. You go. October 11, 2011, 12, 24 PM, too unknown. Just a heads up. There's a journalist calling around, again, his name is Nick Bryant. So you are all aware. I guess they had your picture attached. And then LVJEDADOL.com responded, yes, thank you. I told Darren, referring to Darren Indyke, I assume yesterday. He called me. This is his cell number to look at for heads up. I got the number off my caller ID, thanks. Then unknown response, again, yep, same number. He called myself. Go ahead. Down. Deep. Is there more there? That's it. Do we have any others? I wonder who the unknown is. There are two others. Do you know who the unknown is right there? I don't know. OK. I don't know. It's interesting that it's unknown. And then this one is label is redacted, which I assume is just they made it in the Gmail format. But that means it was actually blacked out on the actual file. So it says, when is the FBI going to come clean as the subject? Header, although this is from this is from 2025. So this is an email that went to Epstein's email for some reason long after the fact. Is that fair to say, DeFi? I can't really. Yeah. But there's a couple other emails where one of Epstein's henchwoman is telling Epstein to call me. OK. Leslie Groff, go out. Leslie Groff right there. Call us. OK. So to Jeffrey Epstein from Leslie Groff on October 11th at 3.51 PM, so it's three hours later after those first email. I believe if I the date right says bill sure saw woman mark packer Chris night barbrow nick Bryant And then I guess that's listing the the EFT is the just the listing what document this was from in the files That is that like a little It's also creepy to you to see this that like this dude New you were looking into him and was looking back at you um I've been at this a long time Here's how I look at it couple ice cream sandwiches Well actually I had one yesterday um, but I wasn't stressed I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do yeah and My adversaries are gonna do what they're gonna do That's What I that's how I play the game of life. What made did you want to be a journalist when you were growing up? No, not at all. I took one journalism class in college and I thought it was the most boring thing I'd ever I I said philosophy in college. Yeah, so what what happened? How'd you end up here then? Well Okay, so I went to graduate school and I was recruited out of graduate school to write papers For lack of a better word that pertained to biomedical ethics biomedical ethics, okay, and there were academic papers and some of them were on fairly esoteric stuff like interstitial justice theory and which is a lot like game theory except it's uses words instead of numbers and I also wrote a book when I was in academia and it pertained to a lower socio-economic children. So that's something that I children is Topic that is near and dear to me I had a difficult childhood the first time I ran away I was 12 Where you grew up in in Minneapolis? Yeah, I became part of a street kid. So what what what what made you a street kid? So you know Um, I had a stepfather that didn't appreciate me and he could be violent so Children's issues, you know, I'm not you know, I'd written a lot about children's issues before I ever said right about this and So I think it's funny when someone He's a conspiracy theorist, you know, I've written all kinds of stuff about children's issues and I've never that have been published in very good journals and I've never been accused of a conspiracy I've never been accused of being a conspiracy theorist Until you went to the things that I actually care about. That's right until the Franklis guy So did you that's really cool though because you took your own personal experiences that were really Tough for you and went out to Find other kids who through different lenses may have had really difficult experiences to see if you could shed light on that and help prevent it for more in the future. Well I mean the first time I ran away I was 12 and I'm glad I didn't get very far because 12 year olds I was very susceptible to being preyed upon sure by the time I was 14 or 15 I was cynical and I was really big So I didn't really worry about where'd you run when you were 12 I made it to the highway and uh, I was walking along the highway. I didn't know about hitchhiking I knew I had to get out of the house that night out of self-preservation What what what happened um My stepfather was beating me up in a living room And my mother said that he shouldn't hit me with a close fist And then I I'm a well, you know, I'm not I'm not safe here In this environment, so that's when I took off But getting back to your question I so I really I took these journalism one journalism class. I thought it was really boring. Why'd you think it was boring? It just was and um, I I love philosophy. I love philosophy and I take philosophy classes Because I found them very very interesting. What was interesting about them? Um To come across thinkers like Play-Doh or Aristotle I'm I'm not a conty and a con is um, I mean When you talk about great philosophers you've got you you can start out with Play-Doh and Aristotle And then I think that the next jump would probably be con as far as the greatest philosopher what made him so great He a manual con There there was a movement in philosophical rationalists and rationalists said that we can discern the truth We we we have like the capacity to discern the truth And then there was the empiricist that said you can only discern the truth by measuring Things that you you need an empirical validation So What kind did is he combine the two And he said that we've got these innate mechanisms mental mechanisms but To to validate it we we also need empirical Which gives us the ability to empirically evaluate something so Kant took the rationalists and the empiricists were very different camps and was able to combine them and I And the book I wrote when I was in academia I used a lot of Kantian Morality Cons morality is there's Utilitarian morality which is the most good for the most people and If you're a Jew in Germany Utilitarian Morality doesn't really or ethics doesn't really work that well for you right Now Kant said he came out with a categorical imperative and he said If you make an action or a statement quantify that to The rest of the human race and see if there's a contradiction If you kill someone If everybody killed everybody then there would be nobody to kill so that would be contradictory so basically it's Kant's formula for the golden rule and His philosophy just Just blew me away. I had lived with an Indian guru when I was 19 and a genuine Indian guru and he what We learn there is that there's two realities there's the reality that we see and there's Which is an illusion and then there's reality true reality now Kant would say That There are two realities there's the phenomenological reality that what we see and actually a whole a whole Philosophy has kind of predicated on phenomenology what kind I mean the kinds I mean a lot of the philosophy goes back to Kant when we were there but what Kant said is that what we see is the phenomenological phenomenological reality but with inside is the nominal reality that we cannot perceive so That really rang true to me because I studied Eastern philosophy when I lived with this guru when I was 19 and I really do do believe that that's the case is that They're what we see is really just a very small portion of what the reality is Take this glass Equals emcee squared this glass has a The math that mass C equals emcee squared is like 300,000 meters per second So squared is like 900,000 meters per second. Okay, so this glass has the energy of 900,000 meters per second And it just looks like a glass to us, but this this glass could power New York for for quite some time It has it has the energy to empower to power New York for quite some time So When you and that's that's but that's Einstein's special relativity And so I'm a proponent of Einstein he wasn't a very good father and he wasn't a very good husband, but hell of a physicist Kind of like OJ Simpson Hell of a running back, but not a very good father or Or husband. Oh, that's such a stray That's such a stray Einstein's catching right there So I'd always believe that, and then I read Kant, and he explained that to me, why we just see the phenomenological realm, compared to the thing in itself, the new, he called that the numeral realm. So I was, yeah, I just, I was blown away by, by, I mean, Kant, his philosophy. And you didn't particularly like the philosophy, and you didn't particularly like the journalism class, but then you start writing these biomedical ethics papers for someone I forget who you saw. Well, I was actually employed by the University of Minnesota Medical School for those, but here's the thing, here's what happened. You know, I was writing these esoteric papers, and people in academia would read them, they were good papers, I had a bunch of papers published, and I had a book published, but they were very abstract. I mean, you would need, you know, almost like a PhD to understand them. And then there was a woman who ran an organization in Minneapolis, who said that serial killers, there was a serial killer killing prostitutes in Minneapolis. And she was kind of crazy. So the media didn't listen to her in law enforcement, didn't listen to her. But then I knew someone who knew someone that was a prostitute, and she had said that there was a serial killer killing prostitutes. And we were talking about this earlier. So I went to work. I got this long list of women that had been beaten, stabbed, or strangled. And it was, it was the, it wasn't their name, it was when they were born, and how they died, and on the date that they died. And then I went to the databases of the Star Tribune, Minneapolis Star Tribune, and St. Paul Pioneer Press, and I put that information in, and then I was, and then the article would come up about a woman. So I put together, I believe 38 women that had been stabbed, strangled, or beaten to death in the previous like eight years. And I went, I had the list, and I went to the Minneapolis police, and I said, you sure you want to say that there's no serial killer? And they thought, well, you know, I don't know, maybe I don't know. And then I went to the St. Paul police, had a homicide. And I said, are you sure you want to say there's no serial killer? And he said, well, you know, there could be, and then a task force was formed to catch that serial killer. And I thought, how old are you? And this is happening. I was about 32, 33. So yeah, 34. So I write this one article. I've been writing academic papers for five years, and nothing is getting done. And then I write this one article, and then a task force was formed. And that led me to journalism. It couldn't have been that long after that when you were working, when you came into the Franklin scandal story, right? Well, I moved to New York City in 1995 to pursue just a freelance journalism career. And then I stumbled across that finders report and started digging into Franklin, Scannerwise in 2002. And you were traveling a bunch to Omaha to cover that story. And then back to New York and writing up your research and trying to put together what eventually became the book. Yes. Okay. So you get the book published eventually by a publisher out in Oregon, because no one would try to. And you're still living in New York City. And you have, I mean, that's also crazy too, because you were sacrificing yourself financially for so long, even to be able to still stay in New York City with all that. You said it was in 2011, though, when you got a hold of the black book, is that right? Yeah. The Franklin scandal was actually published in 2009, 2010. There's, if you look at the first page, it says 2012 or something, because we made some changes to it, but it was published 2009, 2010. And I was really in dire straits financially. Because I put all this money and time into writing this book. And we couldn't give them away. Because the fact that the government would cover up a child trafficking network was an anthem out of people. If you cover up a crime, you're aiding a bet that crime. So the fact that our government would aid in a bet child sex trafficking, that was not a message people wanted here. And, but what I saw happening in Florida was very similar to what was happening in Omaha. Because there were a number of girls that came forward at that point. And a grand jury declared that not a single child had been abused. And I've since acquired that grand jury testimony. And Lana Bellovic, she was a, she was a special prosecutor, which she did was just malignant. She called two of the victims. The law enforcement was aware of multiple victims. They were aware of over 40. At that point, the feds, yeah, when the feds got in. So she called two. One had been 14 when she was molested by Epstein. She was now 16. One had been, was 16. She's been molested multiple times by Epstein. She was now 18. And she just destroyed them. And really, really, you can go to Epsteinjustice.com. I do a take down of how did she destroy them? She called in law enforcement people that just undermined their credibility. How'd they do that saying that they were on drugs and, you know, that, that type of thing went real quick. Nick, when did you for it? Because obviously this was all going on in 0506070809 Epstein's case. When did you first hear about it at all? Do you remember what year that was? I was still working on the Franklin scandal. Right. So maybe like 0708. Yeah. Could have been 0809. And then I called up someone at the Palm Beach Post and I tried to talk to her about it. Actually, I made a few calls. And she just couldn't explain it. And I thought myself, what do you know? I mean, the guy molested all these girls. And the grand jury said that he hadn't molested any girls. I mean, I don't know. Don't you think it requires a little more investigation? And she didn't seem to be willing to. She just said, well, this is kind of an anomaly. It's kind of weird. It's an anomaly. Yeah. I'm using my, yeah, basically said, yeah, it's an anomaly. We just, so, so you start looking at it though in concert with what you were doing with the Franklin scandal because you like it's the same thing. Well, with the Franklin scandal, there were two cooked juries and two bullshit juries in Nebraska. And then with this, this is obviously a bullshit jury coming out of Florida. And then I was broke, but I just couldn't let go. I knew that Epstein was like Franklin. I just, I just had this high power intuition. And then I went down to Florida in 2011. And then I got the black book. And now Epstein used euphemisms for victims. He said massage under massage. There's there's all kinds of girls. And, yeah, we were looking through the black book this morning. And like I said, I hadn't looked at it in a little while, but like under the Florida one. I mean, yeah, there's all the different states. There's a bunch of them. But there's like, yeah, just, yeah, right there. And you're looking at this and a lot of it's redact and you're like, statistically speaking, many of these numbers are girls. Well, I didn't, I didn't have the redacted one. I had their phone numbers. I had everybody's phone numbers. So I started to call them first because you need, if there's a child-driving network, you need victims. I mean, so I called the victims first. And, and the first call was very strange because I talked to a woman whose daughter had been molested by Epstein when she was 13. And she wanted to help me. I said, I'm a journalist. I'm looking at this. She wanted to help me. But she didn't want her kid to, so she asked her kid questions. She didn't want her kid to talk to you. Yes. Okay. She wanted, so she wanted to make sure that like everything was appropriate. That's right. So I asked the mother questions and then the daughter answered them and then the mother. So and she was still very young. I mean, I mean, she was 13 when she was molested by Epstein. Although there are younger people that, and we've seen that now with the files. But then I called a woman who said that she'd been flown around and flown to an island. And we weren't aware of an island at that point. - So that wasn't in any, that wasn't discussed at any point during his initial case, like in the court records that didn't mention the fact that he owned an island? - Not that I know of. - Isn't that kind of crazy? You have a guy that you're bringing to trial for the worst kind of thing. And they're not listing off his various assets that include a eugenics ranch in Zorro, the fucking crazy mansion in Ohio that the farmer girls, Maria and her sister were abused at. And then obviously something like the island. Like I would think that's kind of like top of mind. That investigation, the only people that put together a valid investigation was the Palm Beach Police Department. When it got, when, okay, what happened was, so the Palm Beach Police Department put together that investigation and it had a bunch of, they knew a bunch of girls. They had five on-range girls, the statements, five. But they knew of many more. And when that grand jury came back and said that Jeffrey Epstein had molested a single minor, Michael Ryder, who is the unsung hero of this, the unsung hero. He was chief of the Palm Beach Police Department. He became very merciful for us. And he went to the U.S. Attorney who was Alexander Ocasz and said, "You've got to investigate this." And that's, and then the FBI went to work. And the FBI did, in fact, well, there's a list of like 36 victims, but they knew of 40 or more. And the FBI worked very, very hard to really bring this, there was a draft that had, I think, 60 indictments. And one of, by the Feds and one of those indictments was child trafficking, which is a heavy sentence in the federal system, it's 15 to life. So that's what Maxwell was now with. And so there was this draft, I think it was 60 indictments. And all of a sudden, Alexander Ocaszka says, "Oh, we're gonna do this differently." We're not going to indict Jeffrey Epstein on any accounts of child molestation. We're gonna have the state do it. But then we're gonna give immunity to all his co-conspirators. So that's how that works. - Which would include, like Sarah Kellen. - Sarah Kellen was actually named as one of the co-conspirators, but all of them. And what happened, and this is, I believe, what happened, Ocaszka was told that Epstein was intelligence and that he had to stand down. And the government, there's only two people that can tell the US attorney to stand down. One is the attorney general, one is the president. And at that point, the attorney general is Alberto Gonzalez and the president was George Bush, the cognitively challenged Bush. - Yeah, Bush too. - Bush too. So. (laughing) - So, that was how it played out is, now an attorney general is gonna cover up a big pedophile network without his boss telling him, attorney general's not gonna go out on a limb like that. - So that is also not how the job's supposed to work, but unfortunately, that's how it's worked for at least the last decade and a half. - Well, 25 years sir. - We can really get into history there, but I don't think we have the time. - Oh yeah, it goes back farther. I just think the horse completely left the station and when Bush was in office, but. - So, Alexander Ocaszka stands down and then the state of Florida and Dights Jeffrey Epstein, one kind of adult solicitation and unlawful sexual activity with a minor, which I think is potentially 15 years or 20 years, but he gets 18 months and he does 13 and he has like a little sweet in that. - Oh yeah, we went through it. We went through the details a couple weeks ago on the show. - Yeah. - And saying, and he wasn't really confined there during the day that long. - No, he didn't. - But when he was, and I've got a good source on this, they had a special room form where he'd meet with his paralegals and his paralegals who were generally very young women in their 20s. - Yep, and at least one of them came forward, Dief, I think. - Yes, one of them did one of her name was released. Just talked in that article. We were referencing on the show. It's just like, you know, I look at a guy like Alexander Ocaszka, who as you said, had the famous line of like, now I was told he's intelligence back off. And it's like, last I checked, I don't like this one. Well, I'm pretty sure he has at least a couple daughters. - And he's got two daughters. - Okay, he's got two. And he's not only stepped aside on this and said whatever, but even despite knowing that and knowing the specifics of this case and what he had said all right to with that, he had the audacity to try to continue his political career successfully as well. Eventually, obviously becoming the labor secretary under Trump won. And I just, you know, I'm really glad I can't relate to these people on these things, but the cognitive dissonance you have to have to continue your little climb up the political ladder. After knowing you let something like that go, even if you were a little scared, okay, but you let it go. And then to have the audacity to accept a role as to use the labor secretary. That's how it works. I mean, he was on the yacht. I mean, you can get on the yacht for selling your grandmother too. I mean, if you're willing to make, but in a constates defense, he did not, he was somewhat recalcitrant about that deal. And Ken Star and a bunch of FBI people is in the files, came and put the heat on him too. - Ken Star, who was the attorney on the Clinton impeachment trial. - Yeah, who ostensibly prosecuted Bill Clinton. - Yeah, that was a, I mean, Epstein had like a, who were all his attorneys? It was Dershowitz, who the hell else? Did he have black on there? - Lev Court, Ken Star, Dershowitz, yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's another thing. It's like, oh, this guy just hired a better legal team than fucking O.J. Simpson did for a pedophile case and no one's talking about it. It's kind of interesting. - Well, the mainstream media has been asleep at the wheeler's negligent about this case. - Yeah. - And I find it tragic that the media is the way it is. And I'm kind of a outsider to the media. I mean, I didn't take, I didn't, I only took one journalism class. I've never been on a staff of a publication. So I've always been able to approach things the way that I want to approach. - And think for yourself. - And, yeah, for your thinking goes in the mix. But like I said earlier, there are people at magazines and I news for appears and they're on a reservation that they don't even know they're on. - Yeah, yep. And then you see people, and I don't know we're personally, but I do find it interesting that someone, like Tara Palmeri, who was ostensibly in mainstream media for a long time and did these amazing podcasts back in 2020 on Epstein and then on Maxwell, these two series she did. You know, there was another stop after political where she was at puck.news, which was a newer kind of media platform, but now she's on her own independent, banging this drum. And like, I don't know, I'd love to ask her about that because I kind of wonder if that's related. Like she stepped off the reservation a little bit and they're like the fuck are you doing? And she went from someone who was like very much entrenched within the mainstream media and it developed all the right connections and was a rising star there to now she does well, but you know, she's on her own. She's outside the system. That's interesting. - I've been on her show once. She's been fairly impressive in her investigation. It really comes down to conscience. - You were talking about cognitive dissonance by the time someone continually tramples their conscience or isn't any cognitive dissonance anymore. I think Alexander Acosta reached a point where there really wasn't any cognitive dissonance. - He accepted it. - Yeah, he accepted it. - I always wonder what that's like 'cause it's another example where you think of the movie scene of life. When you see these scenes, right? Someone walks into Acosta's office and says, you're not enough, you know, they start talking about something normal and they say, what are you doing? - What do you mean? What am I doing? You're not going to do this. What am I not going to do? You're not bringing charges. This is way above you. People like you swing from the neck if they start doing things like this. And the difference is when you're watching that in a movie, you know, there's a damn, little piano in the background and the scary music and then they get up and the cameras close on fucking him and he's like breathing heavy and then he's like, what the fuck? And then it cuts to a new scene. But in real life, it's technically way less dramatic. It certainly feels like something, but it's just two people sitting there in silence like this. No music. No cameras. No bullshit. And one guy says, you're not going to do this. And he goes, what? Okay. And then he lets it go. Well, I'm sure that there was a call from the attorney general too and Alberto Gonzales or maybe even the cognitively challenged George Bush. I could see that. But they had enough scandals at that point that we all need another. So a constant was in a difficult position and I think he felt that he had to make this deal. Who knows what kind of threats. But then I'm sure that you might become labor secretary if you do this. Oh, it's crazy. Well, I got some questions on this. I just got to go to the bathroom real quick. Okay. We'll be right back. All right. We're back. So you had mentioned, you eventually went down to Florida, 0809 when you were hearing about this case. You were talking. Florida in 2011. You went. I'm sorry. You went in 2011. You had first heard about the case in 2008, 2009. But when you went down to Florida, you started calling people included like with the massage victims as well who were little girls to be clear. And how did you, we started to talk about this earlier, how did you get your hands on the black book? What was the full process there like from even finding out it exists to then actually having it in your hands? There's an interesting story behind the blackboard. Even before I got it, Alfredo Rodriguez was Epstein's house manager. That's right. And he perloigned the blackboard. Perloigned? Stole the blackboard from Epstein, stole a copy of it. And he called an attorney that was representing the victims or at least two victims I think at that point. And he said, I've got the Holy Grail, I'll sell it to you for $50,000. That's it? 50,000? Come on, Alfredo. Alfredo, Alfredo wasn't the brightest bulb. So the attorney called up the FBI and the FBI did a sting. Yeah, I remember that. And then got the blackboard. Now the reason why, remember I said the FBI found all those victims and then the case got a question, those FBI agents were angry, really pissed that that Epstein had gotten away because they had found all the victims. So it obviously came from way above them. So the FBI leaked it to the attorney and I met with the attorney. That wasn't Brad Edwards, wasn't it? It was Brad Edwards. Yeah. Okay. And then I met with him a second time and he said, well, this will help you in your investigation. So he gave you the physical black book and then you uploaded a PDF version of it? Yeah. Well, I came back to New York and I tried to sell it to a publisher or a platform. You had the physical book? Well, a copy of it. A copy of it. Okay. No one wanted to touch it. I mean, and I think when I was pitching Franklin, I had, there were a number of editors and publishers I could talk to. And I had to add a pretty decent agent. But talk about cognitive dissonance. So I'd meet an editor and I would talk to them about Franklin and then I'd show them a list of all the victims and I could just see the cognitive dissonance going down in their eyes. They would say to themselves, this is a horrible story. I really need to help Nick Bryant. Or I can just write Nick Bryant off as crazy and have a nice meal with my family tonight. And all of them, I knew that most of them were going to go to that run. I didn't think that all of them were going to go to that run. So by the time I got the black book, I didn't have all the connections that I had when I was pitching Franklin. But I still had a number of connections. And no one would touch it. No one would touch it. And then I hooked up with John Cooke Glocker and at that point I had the flight logs too. And he said, we'll do it. And who gave you the flight logs again? Another attorney. And so it wasn't Brad. It was a different one. An attorney. So is another attorney for the victim, so okay. And did he give you that probably on the basis at that point that he knew you had been the black book guy? So he's like, well, no, I don't think he knew that. But if you Google me and you can see that I've done a lot of, I've written the Franklin scandal. I've done a lot of, I've written a lot on children's issues. And that's what's troubling me is trouble. I mean, no, I'm a conspiracy theorist. And I had a friend of mine who was having dinner with someone who works at a, at Phoenix, got a show. And my friend said to him, have you heard of Nick Bryant? And he goes, oh, yeah, he's a conspiracy theorist. So they've heard of me, but I'm a conspiracy theorist. Wow. And that was because I'd become a conspiracy theorist. And Wikipedia completely trashed the book that I wrote that made it look nonsensical. So they had their own page on the book as well. The Franklin child abuse allegations. And that's for people with Google Franklin. There you go. Boom. Right. So I, you know, I tried to pitch it and pitch it and pitch it. And finally, Gawker was willing to publish it. But the irony of it all is, once it was published, the floodgates opened on it. And I think that there's been three quantum leaps in our understanding of Epstein. I think the black book is the first. And I think the Julie Browns series, and the Miami Herald. And then I think that the latest range of documents, I think those have been our three quantum leaps. I think you're right about that. Understand Jeffrey Epstein. When you first had this, though, even before you get the flight logs, when you get your hands on the black book and you're going through it. And, deep, can you just, I have it on my computer here, but can you just google, fast Epstein black book PDF and hit the first link so we can have it up? You know, like I said, I, there's just been times where I'll go through this and scroll. And I'll see a new name that I missed, you know, previously every time it's like, it's like Narnia. You know, and then a fucked up Jarnia into a 2011, getting that. That's what I'm saying. And then looking through it. What does that feel like when you're first scrolling through this, going holy shit. And also, even before you answer that question, when you see the number of contacts that some people that he had for some people, meaning like, I was using the example of RFK. RFK and his ex wife, late life wife Mary are in there. He has like 10 contacts for the two of them at the time. I went back to when I was a little kid, my mom's old phone book that had, you know, before you had the iPhone where you wrote down the contacts like this. And there weren't even that many contacts for like my four at the time, a live grandparents put together. And they all had emails, by the way, they were all like with it on that. And I'm like, but he has 10 contacts for one guy and, you know, does that make you guilty of something? No. But does that look really suspect? Yeah. I remember when I got to blackboard, I hadn't slept a lot than I before. And when I'm on the road investigating stuff sometimes, you know, I go through some sleep debris. So I hadn't had a lot of sleep than I before. And then I got it. And then I, I've got a buddy named Peter LeVenda. He's a writer. Oh yeah, yeah. And my call up Peter and I said, man, I got something to show you. And so we met at a Dunkin' Donuts and I was showing Peter the Black book and Dunkin' Donuts. And we met in a Dunkin' Donuts. And then I immediately made copies of it and then sent it to the Four Winds before what? I dispersed a bunch of copies of it. I like your phrases. That's what I did with Franklin. Whenever I'd come across like a document that was really incriminating, I'd send it to everybody. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.