What Judges Want- Episode 6- Stacy Kay and Hugo Miguez

Speaker 1 Hello. I'm Glenn ball and this is what judges want, episode 6. We have a very special episode not only do we have two guests tonight joining me together but I've also added some adverts in. I can't wait for you to hear the very professional, very real non jokey advert. I've got planned, let's do it. Sway, Godot shoes designed to Make You Dance. Incredible use discount code, Glen Dash dance. If you do not dance very well, it's not my problem. If you do not make finals, it's not my problem. So how's it going? I've got Hugo and Stacy here. How are you guys? Hey, Glenn, how's it going? We're doing amazing. Speaker 2 Thank you. Speaker 1 Yeah, I was going to say thank you for joining me on a Sunday evening. Yeah, I'm good. Just when you're not at an event, I end up making taking up your time. Oh, good. So you've listened to some of the podcasts we have. Yeah, it's been great. I definitely want to say, I appreciate you doing this kind of it gets away for even the judges. Like, even us haven't really spoke a whole lot. You know, maybe some of the close friends, you may speak with about things, you know, you judge or things that, you know, sometimes you may go into people's workshops and hear some of these things. But I love your idea about doing this. You know, I love to get to hearing the other judges and how they think about the dance. Yes, I'm here. It's like I get these secret chats with people that I'm learning at the same time, super fun. Hey, so yeah. So talk to me. I can start a newcomer. What I've been doing with everyone is going up through the levels. If you have a different way of judging each level talk, to me about what you do going onto the floor to judge. Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. So we've been listening to all these podcasts and I think everybody, you know, has their own And doing things for Hugo. And I it's it's not different between each level. Of course, there's different priorities that we have different expectations that we're going to have of each division, but when I walk on the floor, doesn't matter if it's newcomer or intermediate or All-Star or if it's a jack-and-jill or even a strictly or a switch lie. Every time we walk onto the floor, I have the same mentality in the same method of how I'm going to judge each dancer. So for us you know just starting even from more of a broad concept Cept, not necessarily newcomer each division, but we spend a lot of time just in our first song, assessing the group as a whole. So my first song I'm not making a lot of marks on my paper. I'm just looking across the whole, I'm keeping my eyes very wide and trying to look for the dancers that basically stand out. What are the high, the highest tier of dancer in that Division and then I can kind of Judge down from there. So, the first song is very important for the two of us. Speaker 1 Yeah. And even like, Going back to what she was saying about that kind of the method that we do. Because, you know, I feel like the novices in different areas aren't the same novices everywhere, right? Because we also judge and different countries, different places. And, you know, something local in the u.s. is not the same novice division that it is. When you go to Europe and judge those same dancers. So, like she said, we kind of use the same criteria, but, you know, we very much used the method of kind of comparing the dancers, On the floor. So, when we are judging those prelims, it's like in that first song we are looking for our nines are Ace and our sevenths, right? So our that would r7's would be people who were definitely not going to have in there. The nines would be the people who we definitely have in there and I'd say we spend about 80% of our time, kind of in the eighth, you know, finding out, you know what those people are. Weeding them out between the yes and the nose and alternates, and those kinds of things. But kind of talking about those that judging method that we use, we use Kind of seven categories that we start to going. We start to go through and this kind of answers the question about the different divisions along the way. But like I said it's more expectations than just specific divisions. So I'd say in like the novice category, we're definitely looking for more timing technique and teamwork, those three teas. But I think, well, I think what's really important to us is the novices don't win. Novice, so intermediate to win. Novice people who are exhibiting qualities of the next level and are showing you no understanding of what I'm looking for in that level or the people who win that division, you know? So if I were to kind of go through those seven categories, novice would be timing technique and teamwork, then intermediate would be variety. So, in that novice division, I'm looking for timing technique teamwork and variety, right? That's kind of what I'm looking to kind of set apart that comfortability and a variety. And then when we get into advanced, then that becomes a little bit more contrast, contrast, Is how fast or slow you do that variety, how you do that? Variety that you just learned inside of the previous level and is is variety. What's variety to you like, what kind of stuff, length width, height and rotation? Huh, is a great way to kind of start it off. That means that you can make your patterns shorter or longer thicker or thinner. Yeah. Higher or lower, or using different types of rotations of that for leaders, that could also be things like pattern. Variety. But it could also be how they use their body, such as body work, roles isolations footwork, what they're using with their fee, or if they're using Toes or heels or heel-toe actions. At the same time, arm work could be how they use their free hand. What they're using to accentuate. Those Speaker 2 arms should also be more skill, set options. These could be things. You've specifically trained because you like them or maybe a skill that you've gotten from another dance, the I've done things like spins Ducks shapes or even flexibility movements like crazy back bends or cool. Speaker 1 Splits. And I think for us it can also be the qualities of movement. There are six qualities of movement and they are sustained, suspended, swing, percussive vibratory and collapse. It's not specific to West Coast Swing. This is something that we learn in any University for dance. It's something that we utilize in a lot of different mean, So even just me seeing a little bit of that variety, you know, between those those different qualities shows, variety to Speaker 2 me, but I think something cool that you have said it even just about the qualities of movement is that it can stand different categories. So for example, I would consider sustained to be our our base quality of movement. Usually when people are like hey you need to work on your quality of movement, they're talking about sustained, quality of movement. So I would almost consider that to be a quality of movement that's in technique. That's something I want to see and not. This is great sustained. Quality of movement, which could be used via rotation. It could be used for your body, flight, how you travel across the floor. And then, you know, moving those up into variety and even eventually Hugo hasn't finished all seven categories yet. But qualities of movement could even be moved into musicality because we want our quality of music of movement to match, whatever is happening in the music. So I think it's so cool of how it can really span from all levels and all categories. So we were in variety and contrast over the rest of the categories. You Speaker 1 go. Yeah, contrast. And that was when we were in advance and then musicality would be All-Star and then Showmanship would be Champions, right? And you know how, well we do those seven categories of Champions is kind of and the consistency that we do that in the connect ability to the music and the partner is how we kind of decide who puts it better together that day. Uh-huh. And musicality for all stars. What are we thinking phrases or later? X or temper. Like, what do you do first? Is it? Freezing is not just hitting the major ones, but also how you're building to that. So that whole process of the phrasing, how your accenting, those eight counts, within the phrase Speaker 2 and followers, this is for you as well. Are you interrupting that build? That's not a good thing. If he doesn't give you a build before that hit, what are you doing to create that build to add busyness. So that when we hit the water, One it looks even more impactful and passed basic freezing. There's even adapting to the intensity of the new phrase that we're now dancing. In phrases are almost like chapters in a book. Each one has a different part of the story that it's telling and a different intensity that we need to match our dancing to as Speaker 1 well, press. It could also be, especially in all sorts of you're mentioning lyrics, you know whether that is maybe you don't know the song. So you need to hear the the Rhythm, within the melody of the words. Maybe you need to learn how to hear that and hit the melody or if you know the song Maybe being more literal, learning how to story tell very well, hearing the instruments, learning how to hit those and you know and even going for things that we call Easter egg hits. Those are those things that, you know, when it hits that double hit on and eight or for me, one of my favorites is mentioning Brandi her and I danced at an event. I think it was maybe tap but we danced to a Prince song. And she had the snap right? She came out of a 1/4 turn and hit the snap. And you get kind of like those high yield points for us Easter. Eggs are like kind of like a game. The more often it happens, the less points you get for right? So if you do hit that one thing that happens one time in the song like the snap and you hit that well yeah, it's like you yield more points for hitting that one. Perry. Spoke about that, like that magic moment that I call it. I said this in carries one, the swing God's Shone down on you, you hit something. You something in the song that's awesome. And you just mentioned, like, what am I looking for in All-Star musicality? But I kind of take it back to like, every category has like a number one through 10 of Mastery, right? So it's not just as like you have it or you don't write it is like, you know, do you have this assortment of musicality in that something like that would be like you just said, you know, basic phrasing. Are they connecting to the music? Are they? In utilizing like, you know, when you are doing your triples of your dancing, your Blues, are you that in tune with the music that you're even swinging your triples, you know, are you that in tune with it at that point? So that's even something musicality, you know, are you able to hear the character of the music, a little bit as well? How much are you connecting to that music in terms of the characters? Well, you know, the character, sometimes you do influences that Showmanship as well. So you can see how kind of these things overlap along the way, but I'd say every, every piece of Every section has that as well. Like I even think of an easy ways as we were talking about novice as well. Is timing you know timing is not just something that you have or you don't either that can be kind of a scale of one to attend for example, being on time for the whole beets, you know. Because sometimes novices tend to be do like the and three four and five kind of Juggle the Rhythm a little bit. So the control of that Rhythm. Are they on time in their half times? Are they challenging the rhythmical proficiency? That's something you use a lot as well. And I think I want to hold more into that when you asked me about the. Are we looking for triples? Haha. Yeah, you know that question is coming, right? I think but before we get to that one question that's been coming on a lot from many different people and you because you mention this word, I'm going to jump to it. Teamwork. What is teamwork to what makes you smile and you're watching a partnership? Speaker 2 Yeah, so teamwork is another. One of those things is just such a massive category like I almost feel like we could Bubbles 1 through 20 and teamwork, but to put it simply I think, great teamwork starts with a really great connection and of course, everybody has their own way of teaching connection, but we're all trying to get to the same goal. We need to use our connection to empower, our legs to move, right? So everything is connected from the from our bodies to our hands all the way down to our feet and that's how we get that feeling of being grounded. Everybody likes to toss that word around a lot and that's how we get that sensation of being grounded but past connection, you know, being able to affect your partner. I love when Brandi, said in the podcast that obedience is not the goal, especially as a follower. We need to be able to affect our partner, of course, in the right ways when it's applicable in the direction, he's already leading me in and so on. But if we can affect each other's connections, we can make each other feel the nuances in Connection in musicality that we are creating Other things like creating prerelease. So we're creating an action in our body, that's winding up. So that that's more of a visual communication. Speaker 1 Sometimes it's even like supplementing your partner's like awesome stuff that they do. Like, you know, when you're when you're having, when you have a team with you they're like pumping you up, you know what I mean? So when somebody does something, do you acknowledge that? How do you acknowledge that? I think teamwork can kind of span into something more specific like connection, like, well, I think connection falls into the the teamwork category for us, but it's also expression towards your partner And as well. So kind of is not only physical but also visual as well. I'd say a little bit of that category at a higher level is like calling and responsive, you know, like cataloging your partner's movements and being able to utilize them later, giving them responsibility. Let's say you here dot on a not doctor and like can you do the dr. Tanaka and give them the responsibility to hit the data. You know, can you, can you move it to that kind of call and response? So I'd say that's kind of an in-depth idea of what we consider teamwork. Yeah, that's purely. I like that a lot. So, now's your chance triples in lower divisions. What? Tell me your opinion. This has been my favorite question so far. Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely. Everybody's Speaker 1 dying and Speaker 2 so no, we're not looking for triples. We are looking for the Triple Rhythm, but more importantly, we're just looking for overall rythmical proficiency, I want to see you move through all of the different types of rhythms. I want to see you do a drag step. Yep, I want to see you use walking actions. I want to see you. Use those triples. I want to see you be comfortable in your triple, show me some trouble, variations some side, rocks, some cross-checks, some hook triples. I definitely love to see double syncopations. Especially, of course, out of higher level, maybe we're not ready for that and novice, but definitely already an intermediate. Let's start incorporating, some of those double syncopations and even the last one that I feel like we don't get to hear about a whole lot, is what Hugo and I call Triple time, or like, a rolling count action where we're heading. Three actions within the bead one. And a two, and a three. And that's about as fast as we can move in the dance. Almost moving towards like a vibratory quality Speaker 1 and for us sometimes actions is those rhythms. Like for example let's say somebody does a walk walk tap step, tap step. Okay the walk walk. Those are two actions right? And then the tap step, those are also two actions we're doing. So if I was looking at a dancer, they would be doing the double Rhythm consistently. There would be no birth, Michael proficiency. When I see them do walk walk. Tap step tap step because the eye only sees the Rhythm hitting the the the top of the beach. Every time instead of me seeing if they did a pop ball change then a double syncopation and then maybe a walk walk I would be fine like nobody would look at that that amount of rhythmical proficiency and say oh my God they're not doing triples right really well but honestly if you get off time trying to do those higher rhythmical proficiency is trying to do those double time. Maybe you do need to do troubles, right? So sometimes it's just like, getting your strike seeing where you are at that moment. If you aren't able to syncopate and be able to be cleanly, coming back into the timing, then maybe you should start to work on your Rhythm, your triples and the variety and some of those as well. Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot. I think I think it's as I say I do I try not to give an opinion too much but I do think it's a cop out as a feedback tool to say you needed more triples. That's my personal and you've just kind of explained it perfectly. Maybe you do need more triples if you can't do this, you know, it's that exactly. Okay. Then, the next one, we've had a lot of and you make that your, my first couple I've had on and probably maybe either last. I don't know, two people on it. Want to do it together, but you might want to take this one for the follower one for the leader, but it's about the two walks. Is it straight legs for the follower Stacy or Hugo? You can take this and how would you watch your favorite walk? Walk backwards for a 12 for a leader. I like what what do you look for in this is their specifics. Nice. Yes, moment or terrible moment someone can do just from a walk walk. I think, I think for us and just overall in the legs while that's a walk walk or just overall the legs, we want to see a variety of this because I can't really I can't really judge on a particular action, especially because there's such a wide variety. It's not, it's not standardized. So I what I'm looking for is great variety, meaning that I'd love to see straight legs and I'd love to see some bent leg actions. So, I think that if I were to choose one, I tend to teach my students more straight likes again because that looks more complete. It's harder to do in bent legs only. Because the only way you can get away with bent legs is a couple different ways. One is to create. Shapes with them. Like, for example, when a follower does, like one of those like chicken wing duck under dips, where she like, you know, Ducks up and hits towards the audience. Usually the follower tends to do like a bent leg, sit dip leg line, right? But they kind of sit down into the legs and the follower should either straighten the leg. That's in front of her that she's not on, or if she wants to do it, bet she can lift the heel up to create more shape in the leg, right? So it can either create shapes in a belt like position or show. Enough straight leg actions in that bent leg that nobody cares that you're in bent legs. For example, let's say I soften my knees as a leader. I like to dance a little bit more into my knees for sure. Okay, but let's say on the one and two, I use a Ronde Bowl change, right? So even if them on that lower level I used a straight leg action as I did. That Ronde right. Then maybe I do a tap step right there. I'll show a straight leg action even though I'm lower in my level, I'm going to show the straight leg on the top. Maybe I do like an and lift and step on the anchor. ER, well, I'll straighten my leg as I come up for that or if I do an and Ronde and step, I can straighten that. So for me, I'd love to see a variation of them. I just want to see you do it. Well, you know, because everything is based on those choices if you choose to do that, show me, you know, how to do it. Speaker 2 Well, the perfect segue for me to come in, because I agree completely from a follower. Obviously, Hugo talked a little bit about the followers perspective, but I agree completely that it's about the variety of it. It's not a standardized dance, but just remember that. Whatever. A technique, you choose, whatever technique works better for your body, you have to do it correctly. Every every action has a technique, there is a way to dance, your bent legs, just like you goes talking. There is no such thing as as an in-between between a straight leg and a bent leg. It's one or the other. This is something we have to remind our students of all the time. And even ourselves, let's not lie that, you know, when you when you tap the leg, when the leg goes away from the body, The leg has to be all the way straight. Of course, there's some injuries that we have to learn to poke around and we can, but there's no such thing as a bit like top. There's such a thing as a bent leg collection or a bent leg bevel when the leg is coming towards the body. But we, you know, you have to go 100% about the techniques that you choose. So I feel like that's where people sometimes get a little astray as they think they're going for those straight legs. But they're not holding themselves accountable to watching their actions on video and they just Realize that my legs aren't all the way straight. So it looks like an in-between technique Speaker 1 for sure. And even even going along with that with like how you take your Wok Wok Wok. Like whether you do a ball lead or toe release or like how you take that? I'm grading. Whichever one you're doing there. If you show me a total lead, you better do that one. Right? If I see a toll release, I want to see that usually I don't like to do the he leaves because that provides a little bit of flight with the standing leg, but it just depends on which which version of it you're using either. A, I'm grading the one that you're doing there. Mmm, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. Perfect sense. Okay. Great. But that's the fun of make perfect sense. That's the first time people can do a drink for this. Episode are doing drugs. Okay, so I've got a couple of quick fire questions and this could just be like a no answer but you might need to go into it more. Are you judging prelims different finals there and obviously then spotlights is different, but I've had that question. Do you do you even think about what round you're on this point? You know, when you're judging talk to me about that, So I think prelims versus finals, we definitely just, we definitely operate through that thing where I mean you're asking us specifically, but obviously when we judge, we are supposed to be judging the individual when we, when we judge in prelims and the partnership when we're judging and final. So just just overall, I am judging the dancer, obviously, I'm judging the adjustments, they're making in the influence, they're making on the other side of their arm but I am very much judging the dancer that specific dancer during the prelim and then the A hole in the finals and how they work together and maybe how you fix your partner's mess-ups. You know, I think sometimes people dance that prelims, you know, they dance their prelim energy. In finals, where they're more focused on themselves, we're in finals, we need to we need to actually bring up our partners level as well so that we can show better as a partnership together. Yeah. And I think for prelims we have a couple of other things as well. Speaker 2 Yeah, something I want to touch on is in Final. Akley, you know, our job is to make sure that no matter what the top five is correct as correct as possible. I think a lot of people how get really upset and shed a lot of Tears, unnecessary tears. When you know, maybe they were second alternate instead of first alternate or maybe they got dead last instead of 8 when really the judges are spending the most amount of their time on those top brackets. So just reminding everybody out there that if you happen to get a bad score in your on the bottom half, it doesn't They're really mean that you were the worst, it just means that you definitely weren't the upper half, would, you know, is still something to know to work about. But most of our time in finals, goes to making sure I'm getting the top five, correct. So once again, during that first song I have a very wide view. I'm looking at all of the dancers during that first song and I'm trying to get a rough score for who's the top and who's the bottom half, and from there and that second and third song, I'm going to be giving at least half of Of those songs to those top five to make sure that they really have a chance to work it out between who has the better skill set. Speaker 1 Yeah. Like who cares who's the difference between 18th and 25th? Yeah. Like nobody cares and especially to us where we're spending our time. You know what's important is that top five especially in final. So we spend about 80% of our time on that top five in finals and then the rest of the 20% you know, on the lower half, right? And then opposite from in prelims, we spent 80% of our time on those eight. You know, the people who are in that middle bracket to now, judge them kind of accordingly. So yeah, I'd say we definitely judge differently between between prelims and finals. And how much time I get to look at them. You know, if people are listening out there and get inconsistent judges like inconsistent source, that means that your inconsistently dancing, just plain out. If somebody judging you one way and somebody else shows you the other way, you're inconsistent in what you're doing and And it's common because it's like, somebody will say, I know how to do that. But if we were to see you dance, a whole dance, you maybe only did 30% of it at that time, right? So it is very important like she was saying, I'm kind of all bringing it back to, you know, of filming yourself being able to see yourself being able to increase your consistency. So they are more of the judges are able to put you into finals between those prelims and finals as well. Yes. Know about when they see you in the song as it were. Yeah because honestly you know and maybe somebody said this already but If you do the math, usually we only have a maximum of nine seconds to be able to see you in a heat in a prelim. So usually what I'll tell our students is a drill is record yourself but in a different way don't record your whole dancing record, nine, second sections of your dancing, and judge those nine seconds, and judge those seven categories within those nine seconds and see if you should have made finals and every nine second increment. Uh-huh. Because if you are, then you're more likely to make finals. You can see all that inside of that, you know, and obviously, sorry as we're speaking. I'm thinking about some things that I maybe said earlier that I didn't get to elaborate on, is this a something I kind of been brought said earlier as well, but I am just overall looking for the best all-around dancer. So along those categories that I talked about earlier, even a novice, I'd love to see somebody get at least one point in every, in every category, one point and Showmanship one point of musicality. What? Even just one point we'll help you look. Like a better all well, around answer, for example. Let's say I'm judging somebody and find an inn novice and they have a 5 in timing technique and teamwork and they have a zero in variety, contrast musicality and Showmanship but then I see somebody else who has a 3 and timing technique and teamwork but they have one point in variety, contrast, musicality and Showmanship overall. A lot of points that person would win in my ballot over the person who has a It more technique. That's why somebody at some point is going to be true, but in competition who is worse than you, because they are more confident and whatever they're doing at that time. So, yeah. That kind of, you know, pulls back to making sure you have those points. You're that good character in that in the game. Yeah. And that, I'm sure you've had that question before. Well, how did so-and-so beat me there? Terrible you exactly. Yes, that just sums it up. It's like, well, they do this. Well, or maybe they do everything slightly worse but they do everything. Yeah, exactly are on the scoreboard. That's great. I love that kind of imagery to give to people. Okay, so we got one more question to finish. This could be a 45-minute answer but maybe clothing shoes. Talk like maybe it's not Hugo's, like maybe this isn't going to be a long answer to talk to me about what do you think about shoes and clothing? Speaker 2 So I don't think it'll be a long answer, but, but we definitely do get this question all the time, and I think that is the best thing to think about when you're going out there because I am, I don't have to love your personal fashion choices. Is there, you know, gem Leisure wear that actually looks pretty cool and has some really awesome designs on it and hey, maybe that really accents, your body really nicely great. Maybe that's not what I would wear, but if it looks like you put in the effort, you're matching things are ironed if they need to be ironed. You know, you've brushed your hair today. That's the most important part. Not, you know, I am not of the mindset that we need to look like, we're going to an interview. We don't need to dress business, casual, but we do need to look respectable out there for four or even just for ourselves. We need to feel comfortable when we're out there, but your your clothes, your costume at that point is like your It's like your Shield when you're going to battle, you know. When we go out to competition, we have all these negative thoughts about our body and our technique. And oh my God, what happens if this happens. But if you feel like the bomb.com and what you're wearing, you're probably going to feel a lot more ready to go out there and be judged by people. So for me what I'm wearing is a really big deal and always helped me just put on the character. I think something about West Coast me. The answers are all slightly introverts. So in a way, We have to put on our costumes even if it is just regular clothing to have the courage to go out there and sometimes if that's wearing your best friend shirt that you thought she looked great in yesterday or wearing so-and-so's earrings because they make you feel awesome. You need to do that. So more than anything, don't worry about your personal choices in style, but just put an effort and feel comfortable and confident. Speaker 1 Yeah. And at the same time as well like there is sometimes a strategy to the clothes you're wearing, you know, sometimes if you there is way to hide. Things that you're not good at. Like, you know, obviously let's say you have forward next syndrome, a collar as a leader is a great way to hide how much space and B is in between, like, how much they see leaning forward, you know, somebody who has long hair has a little bit more of a way to hide the space. That's, you know, did you know behind their head instead of somebody who has short hair, maybe? So there is some clothes that you can wear that helps hide some of the things that, you know, you need work on. But at a certain level, I can tell You're hiding that you know, I can I can really see what you're what you're doing. Like you know, if you don't have great leg lines and you wear those baggy, those baggy pants like great, you know, that can that can be okay at a certain level. But at a certain point, I can tell what you're doing, right? I can tell what you're hiding back there, so, you know, be comfortable. And you could be strategic about your clothing but just know that I know what you're doing. Well, I'm off to get some extra color, high collar shirts made for my neck long ha ha ha. Yeah. Where those like the blade ones where it's like Oprah's that was that was super fun to chat with you guys, is to say, you're my first couple I've had on when I spoke to Stacey about doing this. She was like, yeah, mean Hugo do this together. I was excited. Hey, I even, you know, on that, take about her. And I, by the way, just just about even our judging, like, you know, we're talking a lot. Obviously, we're a couple. We spend incessant fights together on an and beat. Yeah. So many hours on like, how does this overlap on our system? Like, you know, we have gone. So deep into our understanding, some couples aren't as United as we are didn't. Haven't had the time to really dive into their techniques like we do. But that also is what helps us look. So, Like our Styles mesh, right? When you're that specific about the techniques that you use. But even out there, judging, there's still some discrepancies between Stacey and I, and we try our very best to fix our own personal biases. The more you're aware of them, the more you can try to fix them, but we're always in that constant like, you know, we met her and I may get the same top five all together, but who we put first, second, third, fourth, and fifth may be different every time, you know, sometimes Stacy and I agreed, exactly. A lot of times we don't, we're a little bit off because you, If I see a leader whether I like it or not, and I see something he is dealing with with a follower. I can sympathize with that. I see what's happening and I feel like I'm a award points to that, you know, where maybe I may not have noticed, and looked into that as a follower dealing with the leader has. But I know that that's one of my biases. So now I look for that inside of the couple's. That's something that Stacy has helped me. You know, has helped my judging a lot. And she's like, yeah, I saw that. But did you look at this? And I'm like, hmm, I don't think I saw that actually. So, you know, we're always trying to help each other. Be better, judges and have less biases, but even us, we're looking at different times. We are seeing different things, so sometimes we're not as uniform, it's funny, you say that because like, Susan is obviously kind of like molded me and west coast and sometimes we'll be judging and we'll look at our scores and I'll go. How did you put them first? Or how did you put them out or whatever it was? And may I say like if I can't trust you to judge correctly because I pretend I'm right obviously, can I try But it's so funny like that's who I'm most connected with like you too. And we have the same opinion on nearly everything but then that judge in can, sometimes something happens where as you say, it just wasn't the same for both of you even even with that such similarities. Yeah, and it's like it honestly were processing a lot as judges like, you know, we have to assess those seven categories and however, we have to do all of this stuff on our heads, you know? Obviously if we got to see for a longer amount of time, it may be more accurate. But, you know, We learn how to do these things fast in our heads and we process differently and it's hard and you know we may get caught up in one thing and so you're right, even just her and I we do that same exact thing. They were like you're wrong, you know, the judges and then the scores come out and she was like more, right? And I was like, well, you and I am those other five judges arrived. Well, thank you so much for giving up your Sunday and for joining me on our, I think this is episode 6, right? Watch out. One episode six. So it's good. You guys aren't and we'll be doing a season 2 will be doing some routine stuff as well. So maybe you guys will join me for that. Yeah, I love to man. It's been, it's been a pleasure thanks again for doing this and bringing all these Pros together. And, you know, it's been, it's been really amazing hearing everybody. How they articulate the dance and I love how everybody uses different words, most of them, most of them are talking about the same thing. Yeah, so that's incredible. We may all have different systems but we all coincide with most of the Loom. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, I'll catch you guys soon and thank you once again, take a regular Speaker 2 by Speaker 1 Cinco swing dance tease, the ultimate social dance teams designed Speaker 2 to make you look good on the Dancefloor. Speaker 1 I cannot guarantee that you will look good on the Dancefloor, you'll dance any better to wear these t-shirts. And that concludes episode 6. Thank you so much guys for listening. As you can tell, we had a few issues with the sound in that. So that's why it kind of changed kind of quality throughout but you could hear all that awesome information. I hope you're enjoying these as much as I'm enjoying making them, please. Spread the word and I'll see you next Wednesday for more what judges want.