What Judges Want- Episode 2- Ben Morris

Hello. I'm Glenn ball and this is what judges want episode 2. If you missed the awesome Gary McIntyre, on episode one, go back and have a lesson, but this guest episode 2 needs, no introduction. It is mr. Ben Morris, who I sat down with, at wild wild Westy, and we had a great chat late night. I tried to keep them short and sweet, but if you know been here, He does like to chat. So listen, it's awesome content. And thank you so much to Gary and Ben that so far for taking part in What judges want. Okay, how's it going? Been excellent. Good fabulous, fantastic. Okay, we're gonna do this quickfire. Okay. I'm going to try and keep you sure. It was really? Yeah, good luck. So the first question, this is the first question I'm going to ask every judge is, do you judge the different divisions differently? Do you set a different parameter a different Focus? So you walk on the floor to judge novice as opposed to intermediate as opposed to advance advance All-Star champions. Kind of, I mean one there's the difference in that the higher the division. The more likely I am to get to look it's at or sorry. The more time I get to look at people for but I mean that's true for everyone that's not necessarily deliberate thing and I think almost accidentally the more time you have to look at people versus less changes, the type of things that matter to you more when you're dancing like I think generally the longer we have to look at someone, the more like content ends up mattering. What someone did like, how musical did they hit that phrase change? Whereas like, if it's a gigantic novice with 120 couples and it's the prelims and you'll get seven seconds to look at each person. Then you may not even see the part with the break. So things like how are they moving on our anchor? Like not that either of those things isn't important in the other situation, but I think the balance shifts a little bit, but that's not deliberate. I think that's just an accident of circumstances. And then, then to me there's also not like a deliberate Difference in what's important, but there is a difference in like expectations. So there's only like certain things like, well, I'm kind of expecting that this is good at a certain level and it like a lower level. I'm not necessarily expecting certain things to be present but that doesn't necessarily mean, like, if someone's dancing in novice and they look like an All-Star that I'm not going to be like, well, that wasn't what I was looking for. I'd be like, all right cool and someone's dancing and All-Star. And they're not doing something that to me would have been employing one of my prerequisites from like novice. Yeah. And I'm probably going to punish that. Yeah. But like punish seems harsh not reward. Yeah. That. Um, but to me it's just kind of a there's like different expectations. Yeah. And then I sort of have for each division and what all that. So let's go through, quick, like prerequisites. I can never say that word for novice. Like you are straight out one more time. Prerequisites. Are you go this? Like what? What would be your? I look for this and I follow and I look for this in the lead. Yeah. Well, I mean, first things first, I almost all tell the I've got to say what I think for novice, but it's funny because what I tell people, often times is, like, if you're a novice, listen to what somebody says for intermediate, and that's what you should try to look like, okay? Because to me, there's like the person who automatically does really well, and novice is the person who looks like they should be an intermediate, the person who's the middle of the pack and novice is the person who's like Check in the novice boxes, okay? If that makes sense. Whatever those novice boxes, maybe across all of us judges who are of course, 100% in textbook react. Um but yeah, you know, for me like a novice I like to see well one like steady timing to me is important doesn't necessarily have to be perfect like if somebody gets off a little bit every now and then I'm not like No, as long as they're like, quick to fix it and generally speaking, their timing is good and then very broadly. Speaking, like I'm looking for like, decent-looking motion like your Basics. Look pretty good, like I'm not expecting them to necessarily be beautiful. At that point, if they are cool and then I'm liking like wanting to see people like what will make me reward? People more at that point is like when I'm starting to see. Like okay, like it looks like they're dancing. Like I'm seeing like body movement or their grooving, or their styling, or they're interacting with each other, or they're hitting the music. But what you'll notice that I just said, is, like, or or, or not necessarily and and and so I don't necessarily have the expectation that somebody's going to show me beautiful Basics and interact perfectly with your partner and hit every phrase change while also texturing their body to all the different styles of music in novice. Yeah. To me, it's like I want to see like pretty good-looking Basics plus we're starting to sprinkle some of that other stuff in. Yeah, so it's not just like like I don't like robot Basics that it like, I mean, obviously, I also don't want to see somebody grooving to the music and then everything just looks else, looks dysfunctional. Yeah, but I do like to see you like Basics, plus and novice to me, it's just, I don't necessarily have A set like after your Basics are getting pretty good. This is the thing I want to see next like I want to see people starting to experiment with these other things in a good way but I don't necessarily expect that they're all getting there yet if that makes sense. That does and then I was going to ask this question off, do we kind of go through the divisions with this kind of leads in? Oh, no. I got to do every single one. Well, you could just do it. Like what I mean if it doesn't but like it doesn't need a specific set. Tick boxes. Like I should have just come up with people. If I could've been like this person specialist, yes, this person is what I look for in intermediate. Just the - doesn't watch them on video. So with what you said, you don't, I get told a lot. I've been told to Triple step and novice like I have to do my triples, from what you said. It would suggest that isn't something you would say they have to do. Yeah, I mean, I mean you've got to do them some mmm, but I'm not necessarily like I don't want to see someone like marching time long time. There. I mean I'm also like kept risk of getting ostracized from this community like I like triples. I also think they're kind of overrated. Like, like I think they're important but I don't think they're like the end. All be all that doesn't Define swing to. Yeah. Or just or good. That doesn't Define, like good motion like some, I mean, I think I come like coming from Lindy Hop. Well, like, when Lydia hop gets really fast. You're not doing all that many triples, especially as a leader for followers. I think it's different because like you've got to move. So the triple isn't necessarily just about like keeping time. It's about like a function of well, I got to get to the other side. Yeah. And the triples how I do that? Yeah, often times if that makes sense. Um, so like some of my favorite like Lindy Hop videos that I watch like they're too fast for triples and those are great swing dancing videos. And Because I don't want to say something that could be construed as controversial. I won't name names, although I don't see it as a negative thing, I can think of, at least a couple, really good. Top Pros whose movement and dancing. I really enjoy watching that don't triple like constantly. I mean, they do them frequently. Yeah. And I think that they do them more often than they don't. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Or um, or more often they do any They're one thing, but like it's mixed in a lot with things that aren't triple. So I don't know to me a lot of times when somebody doesn't do any triples it can look. It starts to look lazy my or like or like they don't have a lot of emotion going on in their body. But a lot of times when someone's just like triple triple triple triple it just starts to look like robotic and uninteresting. So right? Like a mix of them. And, you know, also depends on the song like some songs are going to make me want to Triple more some songs are going to make me want to Triple West. So yeah, I guess I do the very short version of that but maybe I should, I was like, yeah, do them but don't feel like you have to do them like non-stop, okay? All the time and when you don't do them, don't just stand there. Like, make sure your body is doing something else over there. I mean, unless you're standing there looking really awesome which on occasion, can I do like look at my body roll or whatever or Like I'm posing, I don't know, but that still wasn't a super short answer. No, it wasn't God. I mean, you know who you're talking? Yeah, that's true. This is going to be the long of your mama. So if we moved up through the divisions, what checked like and you don't have to go, okay? So intermediate this, if it's the same stuff, like what check when does it change? Or does it not from everything? You've said it's like still that all the same stuff that you're just expecting more. Yeah, it's just like, excuse me, it's like, Gradual like to me there's not a set like I owe it to these boxes for intermediate for me and these boxes for advanced for me and blah blah blah. I do think a lot of people have that that's not necessarily how I like analyze it for me. It's like a more gradual change like as we're going up through intermediate Advanced, All Stars. Although really like, well, I mean intermediate where and how many people are there? Like not all Immediate divisions are the same so really it's more like as we are competing against other people who are better and better and better. It's just like the standard of how good I expect your movement to be goes up and like I'm expecting to see more styling and I'm expecting to see more musicality. And if this makes sense, I feel like when you play Like Mario Kart or like any other racing game like you go through the characters and it's like this one accelerates better and this one Corners better and this one, I don't know. Bowser is heavier, it can knock people over or whatever, you know what I mean? Like any game, like kind of has that and all dancers are like that from novice up to Champions, like, everybody's got things, they are better at and things that they're not as good at. But I feel like as you go up, Each level like like the total of everything increases and gets better, so, Ike, All-Star Bowser is better than intermediate, Bowser. If that makes sense. But All-Star Bowser is still better at this and not as good at this. It's just like, oh this like in all-stars, this person's body motion, might be their weakest link, but their weakest link body motion is still probably better than most people's body. Ocean in intermediate or Advanced. Yeah, if that makes sense. So it's kind of like things get all kind of go up together. I do think And this is again, like hard to put an exact thing on, but as you get to each the vet division, there's kind of a threshold for like you have to make sure that whatever your weaknesses are. All right? So weak that they distract from your strengths and there's kind of like a threshold of what judges are willing to accept the at each division of like, oh this person's leg wines or foot articulation, or body motion, or the music. How Body or whatever or whatever, right? Like, it's like, okay, that thing's not their strength, but like it's good enough that I can focus on what is their strength? Yeah, or it's like, ah, like this thing is so bad that it makes me feel like they shouldn't be in this division yet. So I can't even focus on this other thing. That's good. Uh-huh. Um, and so I mean there's not like obviously an exact number to put on that, but it's just to kind of think each of those things moves up. Now, obviously you ask different judges, except for me, I guess, but most different judges. You probably. Get more specific things for more people, like if you average it out, across all of us, you get kind of this jenya thing that I'm excited about. And then just to finish that kind of chat about the individual divisions, then it comes to spotlights. Do judge spotlights differently to a all skate. I guess it's what you said before, you get to see. Yeah, we brought it full circle. Well, that was a nice callback once. Well done. Thank you. I was actually just thinking that you're like in this together. Um, so yeah for me Again as you go up the divisions like accidentally the things that happen in the dance as opposed to just how is your general movement when you do anything become more and more and more important as you go up the divisions, because the judges, see you for longer and longer and longer, especially as we get to spotlights. So I think that, um, That's kind of like accidentally in All-Star finals. Mike how good the dance is like, too cool stuff happen. Like we're you and your partner taking care of each other. Was it musically? Interesting. Did you nail the big moments was there anything that I wanted to steal from you during a dance right to the ground? Go wild like that becomes more important because I have time to look at it. Also, though. By the time we get to that Division, I think, especially in Animals. We're starting to take for granted that like, okay, these other things are probably all good. Like, maybe this person's emotions a little bit better than this person's motion. But ideally everyone here has really good basic emotion. So now it's more about what happens on the floor in this moment. Yes. So that I do think is a little bit more deliberate like if you watch novice like if there if you happen to be in an event where there's a novice spotlight, there's still definitely more weight on the motion at that point because we don't necessarily have the expectation that everyone's body motion and foot articulation and legs or whatever is fabulous. So if a couple goes out there and their movement just looks amazing, even if it's a really boring dance, there's a good chance and like a lower-level novice or immediate. That's still going to place them really high. Yeah, or win because it's almost like, oh, that thing that we want that thing. That's almost a prerequisite that we want. Yeah. It's Standing out so much. Yes. We're as we get higher as we get higher up, we start to be like, okay, all these things are pretty much on a good enough level that we're not going to worry about. Yeah, that makes sense. Not exactly. But I feel like not just with my judging, but when I watch how results come out, I feel like that's how it works. That make sense. Yes. Okay, so to finish it already, I know already, we've already see how long I pick you up. Well, you've got three more questions and these are three questions that people have sent, okay? But I need quickfire responses. All right, you all set up. Do you want to send me to set up a timer for each one? What do you think about straight legs? I get this all the time. This is come in like with four or five different people asking this question. I've been told I have to dance on straight legs and this is actually leaders of said it as well but it's mainly followers. And then I get this as a coach and a teacher will so-and-so dancers on bent leg. So get. Yeah, give me why someone so, they mean, like Most all of us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you give me your thought, your explanation of why they might need to or why you don't agree with it. Yes. Yeah. All right. So I think I think dancing on straight legs is a great way to do this dance. The consistently works really well, and is where most people should probably start. If I make sense, I don't think it's the only way to move through this dance and make it look good. And I also don't necessarily want someone to be stuck like that. The entire time, I got necessarily like when I see someone who's got like great straight legs, And then they never very front. So the reason I say that is because I think like There are other ways to have really well, articulated motion. But I think they're more challenging to get across and sometimes and so whereas like the straight legs is kind of a consistent way to create that motion. Well I also I like the look of them as a kind of like a default. Like I want to see people going in and out of straight legs and then to me like like I don't want I'm not a big fan of like never seen them to me. It's more of a like how much do I see them? Yes. And more or less, I'm okay with. I also think that frequently what happens is people who have very bent legs, I'm like over here like yelling at myself. In my head like straighten your dang leg but it was because I thought a bit of me of a good example of this, but a lot of times what happens is what's almost what's problematic. As you see people with bent legs but they're not articulating, the leg motion when they're bent. And so to me like are working on Dancing with straight legs teaches you how to articulate the like motions that we did a roll, the foot and the straighten. The And then you can do that articulation from a lower place, alright? So, I can still be rolling my foot and straighten my leg. I just don't straighten it all the way. Yeah. But you still see the like extension and Ben, I'm over here. Making hand motions. Just you guys all know. If you want to use your imagination, I'm demonstrating right now and it looks beautiful. Um, but like does that make sense? So there's yeah it's like oh, you're taking that motion that you would do with how Would straighten the leg but now, you're just not doing it all the way you're doing 3/4 of it. Or you're not starting up here on astray like you're starting slightly down but then you're still articulating that motion. Yeah. Whereas a lot of times what happens is people are down. But then the like foots, flatten, the knees, just sort of stain, but I'm not seeing the bending and straightening action. And I want to see that bending and straightening action, even if it doesn't end with a fully straight leg. Yes. And so I find a lot of times, like, learning how to articulate that. Down is really challenging for people. It doesn't usually work learning, not always, but often learning how to articulate it up. Works well and then you can take that articulation and do it well. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Um, so anyways is that quickfire, it out. Probably not really is the long bellina, okay? Two more feel like I can say more. We do a sequel. Who doesn't equal credits or something clothing? Talk to me about clothing. Do you care? Do you care about shoes? Do care about what they're wearing? Is there something? I wish I mean. Okay, so close. Like, to me. Definitely depends on like the event. You're out if it makes sense. I do actually think first and foremost like, well, I guess these are tied, but like, don't look like crap. Don't wear something. You can't move in. Neither of those things will serve you. Well, when someone looks really sloppy doesn't serve them. Well, when somebody wears something, no matter how How good it looks at. They don't feel comfortable moving in, they don't dance. Well, right? So avoid those two things then kind of within that like how you should dress to me, kind of depends on the event. Like you try to get like a Vibe of what the event is. Like there are definitely events were like a t-shirt and well jeans are my case stretchy pants. Yeah, it works really well. And then there are other ones where like the leader should definitely have buttons and so You kind of try to gauge that Vibe. So, like, I mean, this is more obvious the most events but like for Jack and Jill Rama. I literally put the caricatures in jeans on the flyer because I wanted to make it really clear. We want this to be casual. Yeah. Because the most other events is obviously it's not that obvious. There's not like a dress code on the flyer but you kind of get a Vibe for. Like if there's a dress to impress night on the schedule, then obviously you don't need to wear a suit or address in your Or division. But if there is a dress to impress night, then that is probably an event where overall you should dress a little bit nicer for your contests. That used to be like the nasty event circuit. I would have said like dress nicer for you. I was once and then but like, you know, that's not like a hard and fast rule, but you just kind of try to notice like, yeah, what is the vibe seem to be for this? And I think it fluctuates shoes for me are like generally speaking? I She really liked that shoes have a lot more variety now than they used to. Where there was like an official followers shoe and official leadership. Actually, one point, I was the same shoe, and then then, at least we had two different ones. You still look like you wear this and you were this and those worked really well. But I kind of dig now that like, there's all these different shoes that people are wearing. Having said that, don't wear ones that hinder you. So there are some shoes that some shoes are bulkier. Some shoes are harder to our Articulate your feet in. And like, if you're if you have a hard time articulating your feet, if your foot articulate, equation isn't good. If your pigeon toed a lot, like don't wear a shoe that draws my attention to that. Like, for example, if you don't have good footwork, don't wear white shoes, or to me because then I'm like, bam. There's your feet if anything weird. Tan shoes, camouflage. Just kidding. I just but like wear shoes that are more understated, right? Um Like that's a little bit of specific strategy of just make sure you're not wearing something that's making. What you do. Make it a weakness more obvious or making it more difficult for you to do something. You're not good at. Yeah. Like borrowing, that circumstances circumstances, I kind of dig the fact that we've got like, sandals sneakers, boots, just to clarify, when I say sandals, like the followers and not flip flops and whatnot, I did win a Lindy contest and put flowers at once. It's though, but and we have fuegos discount code plan. Yes, don't tastic? Yeah than 10%. Those ones are a little stiff for me personally, but that is because I don't have the best foot articulation in the world and you do all this cool funky footwork. Looks really I didn't where's he competed? Actually this is like for my podcast when I do this I won't wear them for a computer because I like looking more classic. That's like me with the dance socks. I just I teach them those damn socks non-stop which CJ and Jeff Mumford turned me on to. Yeah. By the way, but I don't compete in them because I don't like the way they look, but I love him for teaching and practicing and dancing. Yeah. Okay, we have a discount code for S. Okay, it's like to keep this under 25 minutes, the love. You guys. Do a challenge from Kevin. Kane message me. Okay, said, is there one thing that the crowd cheer up during a spotlight that you actually don't reward? And there might be no, but he just said, is there something that like the crowd go crazy for that? You're like, no, like that. That doesn't do it for me. Or even vice versa. Maybe something that the crowd don't cheer for that. You're like, that was pretty good. Yeah, let me think for a second. Well I mean frequent the second one happens frequently. I'm like I really like something and the crowd just like wasn't into and that that can be also something I thought was really clever. Yeah or funny or maybe it was subtle or just a really cool movement or whatever. And there's the crowd, didn't go crazy for it. I'm like, well, I still thought it was awesome. Yeah. Oh my God, you're stressing me out. Only 55 seconds. Um, The first one sometimes. Yeah, sometimes stuff that's like. Overly washed it, not very often but occasionally, sometimes something that is overly hammy or funny but not good. And that makes sense. Like, I don't feel like it was done in like a good or clever way or paired with cool content. Like it was sort of just funny and hammy but not paired with you more and sometimes the crowd will go really wild for that and I won't necessarily yeah. But the reason I say not that off, Then ask, sorry, I'm going over the time. The reason I say not that often is because oftentimes the crowd will go wild for that in the situation of it happening, where the dance was already going well, like, the dance was going well and they've got the crowd like kind of in the palm of their hand. And so, then they do this thing that I may not necessarily think is awesome but the crowds really into it because they were already into the dance because the rest of the dance was good. Yeah. Usually when somebody does something like that. And the dance hasn't been going well, the crowd won't go wild for it, if that makes sense. So that's why I say like I might be like I didn't necessarily appreciate that all that much. But I appreciate the fact that the rest of the dance was going really well, which is why that where they put in. So that's why I say it's not super awesome, The Crowd Goes Nuts And I'm like disagree. Yeah. Okay well we kept it. I mean 1011 Minister. I'm having fun with. Yeah, you want to just keep going I will get you back for series. To because I'm going to do routines. Oh. So I'm going to go to Pro-Am brides and stock classic showcase, which your kind of actually should just we should just film a series of end credits scenes right now, just put at the end really else. It's like little extra tidbits that I was like, I didn't really want to say this at the time. About what did you name names? No, I don't think I'll name. I would only name names and positive ways, okay? But people aren't going to want to this. I wouldn't name names about anything - because I don't have anything negative to say about anyone. Oh, really is that true? Megan Ugh. Okay, we're going to end it there. I mean generally did you know, a you should actually have an endless a while ago that we rented it now.