What It Truly Takes to Drive Repeat Restaurant Business

Hey there, restaurant pros, it's David's Guy Peterson, welcome to the Restaurant Prosperity Formula Podcast. For over two decades I've been guiding restaurant owners to success with a proven principles of something I call the Restaurant Prosperity Formula. I originally created the formula based on the daily practices of the most successful restaurant tours I coached, and it's now the foundation of what I teach restaurant owners like you, so you can achieve success. What do I mean by success? Success is a restaurant owner who dictates the terms of their life and their bank account instead of their restaurants dictating those things for them. Success is a restaurant owner who has freedom from the restaurant and the financial freedom they never thought possible. How you define success is up to you, but I do know the way to achieving it is using the Restaurant Prosperity Formula. This season I'm diving even deeper into the core elements of the formula, leadership, systems, training, accountability, and taking action. Along with my insights you will hear from special guests, industry experts, and inspiring success stories from fellow restaurant owners who've turned their businesses around and found their definition of success. In this episode number 136, our guest is a good friend of mine and no stranger to the podcast, Darren Dennington. Darren has over 30 years of experience in the hospitality industry and has an extensive background as a food and beverage director, executive chef, general manager, restaurant owner, staff trainer, restaurant coach, and consultant. He holds the most prestigious certification available for a hospitality professional being a certified food and beverage executive. He is the founder of Service With Style Hospitality Group, a hospitality firm offering secret shopping and team training services. Listen in as Darren shares with us what it truly takes to drive repeat business, grow your sales, and deliver on wow customer service. Let's get started. But first, a word from our sponsor. Boost your restaurant's performance with the Service With Style's secret shopping program. Get comprehensive reports with photos, customize visit templates, a vast network of experienced shoppers, and a fantastic scoring system so you know exactly what your guests are experiencing. You control the frequency and rotation, no minimums, no contracts, no cancellation charges, and no hidden fees. Joey industry leading reporting and scoring software plus a 10% discount off the price and your first shop is free. Set up a quick call today at www.servicewithstyle.com/dsp. Darren, I want to thank you so much for doing this to me again. Thanks David. Glad to be here. Well, for those of us who maybe are brand new to the podcast, maybe have not seen that you and I did a podcast, probably one of the very first ones that I had done with the Restaurant Prosperity Formula. To give a little background, you and I have known each other now just about 23 years. We spoke at a conference together, became friends from that point in time, and then I consider you a very close friend. We have traveled the country, in fact, the world together. We have spoken on many stages together. We have done our own events together. We have competed against each other because over the years you have done restaurant coaching as well. I always tell people, if you had gone with Darren and not me, I know you're in good hands. We have been pretty tight for a long time and so I want people to understand that when I bring you on, when I recommend you and your company, it's not a, oh, he's great. I truly believe your core values are solid. You really care about your customers and you are our foremost expert when it comes to customer service in my book and we've talked about that over the years. Do me a favor, before we get started, tell people a little bit about yourself so they can hear from you. Well, first, David, thanks for having me and I truly value our friendship. We've helped each other. We've challenged each other and had a lot of fun together, so nothing but respect here, right back at you. Yeah, Darren from Service for Style and I guess we've been doing this a pretty long time now. Secret Shopping is our primary business and we helped some restaurants on the side of a little training once in a while, but Secret Shopping has been a very valuable tool to a lot, so we keep expanding how we do that and just, yeah, it's been a long time and enjoying it. I have no doubt and I want people to understand that I've, again, known you for 23 years, you've been doing this longer than that and the fact of the matter is from 23 years ago to today, I consider you the very best and I put you at the very top of Secret Shopping Services, as well as just a phenomenal trainer. There's very few people I'd like to listen to from stage because I am just, well, I'm a little cocky about my ability so I get bored when people suck and you do not suck and we've had many members actually bring you out to do trainings at their restaurants for not only management but also customer service and it's been phenomenal. Let's talk about it. I saw your very first presentation, that's when we met and you knocked it out of the park there and, hey, you're pretty good from stage. I'll give you that. I try. That was a terrifying experience just to be clear. With that said, let's go backwards. We started open about customer service, customer service, customer service. Really, let's get down to the root of things and that is what brings a customer to somebody in the first place. People are worried about the economy right now, they're worried about the inflation, they're worried about everybody pulling back and I've seen in my membership groups that a lot of the help reviews and Google reviews are still high. What they're not seeing is the repeat visits and that means it's so much important to also bring people in because the dollars people have to spend when they pull back, they pull back on restaurants. They're still coming in. They're not coming in three times a month. They're coming in once a month or twice a month. We're seeing this dip and everybody wants more sales. There is a lot to say about we cure all the oils with more sales. We're going to ignore what I talk about which is operations and you've got to have your shit together before you do that but let's assume a restaurant is a good operator. What is it that brings somebody in the first place? Well, there's a lot of different areas, right? First, it's easy to go to the marketing and create the buzz and whether that buzz is a new menu, a feature on Friday night or a landscaping makeover out front, something that catches their attention is where we get some of those first time customers, there's a lot that come in from some type of food craving, right? I'm looking for tacos, I'm looking for pizza and we're searching for those type of things and making our decisions based on what type of restaurant you are. Then there's a situation sometimes that creates where we want to go, right? Your kids are home. You haven't seen them in a while. What's a good place to go for that type of situation? Well, it might have nothing to do with the food but it might have everything to do with the ambiance or the location and then there's places that we just go to based on pure convenience, right? You pull it into a parking lot to get something from another store, you're hungry, there's a restaurant, there's where you're going and those are different categories to look at but typically that's what brings the customers in the first time. It's competitive. It is so competitive. You talk about, you know, if we talk about some of the things said, when I was a franchise or we often looked for places that had ancillary businesses that would bring our type of customer, our demographic if you will, usually it was a tire store or a prayer shop. It was often a cameart or a Walmart. It was, you know, grocery store, wherever it drew people in and over the years we'd have a lot of people be like, oh, I don't want to open a restaurant near all these other restaurants like by a shopping mall where there's chain, chain, chain independent, chain, chain, and quite honestly sometimes that's a good thing because you go in while there's all this competition when somebody next door is crazy busy, you get their business because they don't want to wait. But more importantly is the situational part where in this area and you just scan. My wife and I sometimes drive down there and which restaurant we know all the restaurants but we scan and we make a decision sometimes just we want that and we often lose sight of there's some of that. The other part is often it's that first impression. You talked about marketing, marketing is a first impression, a phone call, more old school because I'm old school. My mom was probably the best hospitality trainer I've ever met in my life and she ward winning and I remember she came to Kaitu Springs and did a training for us and everybody felt strange but she got back in the 1990s when we were answering a telephone in the damn restaurant not something like we were answering I had a brick phone like giving an idea telephone. She taught us and trained everybody you had to smile before you picked up the damn phone that customers could hear the smile. It's that person who knows what they're talking about. It's making sure that our guest doesn't encounter an attitude of indifference by one or more employees which is the biggest reason customers don't come back but what is it that we need to be thinking about about first impressions because it's hard to overcome when you don't do a good job. And like you said right there's a first impression from the marketing, from the branding, from the website, from the app so we get little first impressions there but typically the first impression like you're trying to break down this wall right to give me into your restaurant the first time is kind of challenging and once you finally get me there now I've got the decision to make right I'm evaluating you and is this somewhere I'm going to come back to and that first three or four minutes of walking on property it's critical it really is it's the the pieces that are most memorable it's the the walkway the flower bed the fact that your front door is all scratched and chipped and just looks old or that very first greeting the first employee that I run into right what impression do I get so those are things that we know are fairly easy but when you're spending a lot of marketing dollars to create this buzz to pull people in the first time just remember that but we're looking at everything we haven't been here before we're kind of checking you out so those simple little basics that get away from us make a really big deal to those first time guests and that's something in my world and in yours we've always trained and talked about checklists like you can checklists those standards you can have a manager follow the checklist to make sure the team did their checklists that the guest notices nothing that they walk up the the the sidewalk and there's not gum that's all black and whatever there's not the because you're in a city that all your deliveries come in and out of the front door that there's these damn black wheel marks going in and out for for the cart it's making sure there's no fingerprints on the door that there's not cigarette butts right near your entrance like all these little things matter because one of the things that you taught me over the years is that you know wow customer services and jazz hands it's connecting with your guest but more importantly making sure your guests stay connected that when they come in they walk in they meet up at the front door that they're engaged with each other when they come in the door that they're not I wonder if we get seated break the connection it's that they're greeted immediately and properly that we keep flowing with our own conversation that we get seated and somebody comes to the table within the two minute rule otherwise we start to stop listening to the person across from us have a conversation in our head when are we going to get service zone and so forth and it's those little broken opportunities can you can you talk a little bit really about that first impression thing again but how that how it's so important that we don't break that flow well what you're trying to do is transition them from the first time guest to someone that ultimately trusts you and wants to come back quite frequently and that is a transition but what you're ultimately trying to do is is build value so where to me it doesn't matter if I'm spending $6 for a breakfast sandwich or $60 on a a nice entree I want value and we see that value in several different areas as the customer and I guess the the first and foremost one the the piece that has to be there every single time it's the food quality that's the one piece that it doesn't matter if I'm buying a breakfast sandwich from the airport counter service or I'm out for a nice dinner with my wife if I'm spending $6 or $60 my perception might be a little bit different but I really want a good breakfast sausage sandwich right even I'm only paying $6 for it so that part of the value has to be 100% of the time it's tough we get it but that's one that we're always creating this value in our head based on and then the second compartment of value is kind of the location the ambiance the setting the cleanliness the appearance because we gain value from that we're coming to have a nice comfortable setting with you we we just want a clean environment we wanted somewhere to relax so we put part of our how we decide on the value is based on on those small simple things that we see and like we said a lot of them are created in the first impression but the biggest portion of value the it's almost like the free card that restaurants have to build value which is through service and through the the simple connections the hello is the smiles the thank you mr. Peters it was great to see you tonight and that simple connection that may not be what's pulling me in obviously in a lot of times it's not even what gets me back for the second experience but that service is what starts to to make me feel comfortable here and increasing those visits but it's also kind of that that play against price increases right every one of your members I would imagine is challenged with do I raise prices now or can I keep going and if the price is a concern service it really makes that a relevant if I walk out of a restaurant comfortable happy feeling like somebody valued having me there and showed me a little hospitality then I don't think about the price that I paid but when I feel like I got shorted and I didn't receive it and I saw some attitude then that's when I feel wow I just paid $60 for that really so most times the price can be pushed aside by having a really great value including the highlight of value which is the the service connection and the whole people portion of this and I would tell you to tell me I'm full of shit and I'm wrong and I'm good with that but I think services number one and food is actually number three in the list because you know you could have a great chef a great menu a great everything the food could be phenomenal but when I get shitty service every time I go now I'm a once a year man I'm crave that dish but man every time I go it's a long wait time they never their net of your tentative I always need a drink like you start to go through all these hurdles to have that dish and you give up on it you go to the places that that do like that you're there who do pay attention to you do that made a connection and I'm going to get back to that in a second and so I think from from my side of things that that service part is number one and and this is what I want to talk about you said the connection so I've seen you speak oh gosh I can't even hundreds of times at this point in time like you and I've seen each other's presentations we could I could give your presentation you give my for presentation some of them there is a story you tell and I think it's really important I want to divert us for a moment and talk about making that connection you were a server at a chain restaurant as a young lad and you were crushing upselling the specials you had a manager say dare tell everybody how you do it and you started going through a checklist of oh the specialist such and such is 2795 blah blah blah blah and that wasn't it it was how you created a connection gave you the ability to give a great experience to a guest and sell more can you go backwards and tell that story back to red lobster and the general manager is a little fireball and had suggestive selling contest all the time and I like that competition and I remember being the shrimp appetizer garlic shrimp scampy add on and I think it was like 695 and she would challenge all of us right in our shift meetings how many you gonna sell how many you gonna sell and we'd have prizes and she had a big huge not a chalkboard but a board up in the kitchen where for four weeks we would track this and I kept winning little prizes and then she called me up at the next staff meeting and put me on the spot and how are you doing this and what I didn't realize then was it was that first connection with the guest it was the nothing to do about the drink special or what you're ordering it was what what brings you in tonight and where were you and you have plans later today and I love the logo on your hat I'm a Bruins fan also and just create this little casual conversation and I guess the goal was always just to try to get him to smile because I felt like once they smiled during that very short window of the introduction then you they trusted you and when you came back five minutes later and said 6 shrimp 695 garlic shrimp scampy and they okay there and says it's good I trust them and it was just it was like an add on it wasn't you were selling anything but you connected with the guests first so yeah it's been a long time since red lobster so yeah but but nothing has changed it is like I can remember you and I've had discussions so many it's got many drinks and many bars over the years traveling and you know it's that chain level service sometimes the new chain level service not quite what is in the 80s or 90s is very impersonal high my name is David you know what nobody at the table gives a rat says that I'm David have you been here before oh let me tell you about our rock shrimp special blah blah blah I don't give a shit take the order you go away they won't remember my name but when you approach it the way you did hey oh you bro it's the game last night oh you guys go went to the zoo or where'd you go you got balloons you only went to the zoo you kneel down talk to the kids real quick give the parents a breather like that connection whatever it may be take do through your specials do the thing that we do but then you start to turn away and come back and go oh by the way I'm David you need anything I'm here for you now I give a shit about you you're a human being you connected with the table you're listening to me you're showing me that you want to you care and how powerful that is now I want to I'm going to stay on this real quick on value because again you and I've had so many conversations I can remember when you used to 20 plus years ago you'd give a speech talk about value and you go hey when I take my family of three and you want my $50 a burger now is $18 like a family of three or four is not getting out of anywhere for $60 $80 anymore and so it's become a real big decision when when we go into a restaurant and you alluded to it when we talk about value one of the things I teach is a very simplified way how do I choose how to price myself and it's about value I can undercut everybody be the dive bar don't ever want to be them I can be like everybody else the apple bees the chilies the whoever and I can charge just like them even though they get their food for cheaper I can charge just like them I'm the same value or I can have incredible service incredible product I'm better than everybody I can charge more because if I go to a shitty restaurant and they give me asparagus and it's awful it's bitter and it does things my body we don't want to talk about and they comp the meal because it's so bad it's still too much money free it's too much money I go to Ruth Christakas they sell me four of those spears for $35 with little sprits on top and I'm going as the best asparagus I've ever heard of my life it wasn't the experience the food was great but it is the atmosphere it's the level of service that came the care can you talk a little bit about that before we jump off because value a lot of people think it's price it's not it's the experience right well that's where everything adds together and the experience comes from several different parts of the dining experience and whether I'm getting a breakfast sausage or having a really nice sit-down fine dining type of experience if the food is disappointing it instantly pulls away because of the expectations I had coming in the expectations I bring in are always I want good food a lot of times I'm not bringing in the expectations of someone making me smile or laugh or putting the knee down and talking to my daughter so those are why they're the hidden gems to increase the perceived value because I don't expect those coming in but I expect good food and when somebody genuinely connects with me and finds out that we went to the zoo today and and we get into this simple little 20 second conversation it's all we're talking about it doesn't have to be five in 10 minutes it's little tiny things that's what I walk away with saying wow I really received this extra value and that's not how we're stating it but that's that that warm fuzzy feeling that you had a great experience and you feel like you got your money's worth so it's just people don't understand they think service is robotic even to a point where hey we're going to train our people to say my name is and we we drill it in and they go through the specials and so on and so forth that's not how a connection is made and it is wow customer service great hospitality that truly makes anything you put on a plate of value we don't want to compete on price you want to compete on price you're competing with a gas station and get food at a gas station nowadays you want to deliver an experience and that's what hospitality is creating a great experience crew or better yet creating memories and you and I've created a lot of memories over the years I'm even going to go one step further on this I can remember you and I spoke at the California restaurant show and we went to a larger seafood chain restaurant that was right outside the arena where we're or convention center and the arena I guess they're both right next to each other and we looked at our plate because we didn't have great service but it's just clean it was nice expensive for the time and I think this was in the oh probably 10 years ago maybe even longer than that and it was the beginning of minimum wage going up in California and so prices were going up and we're in this tourist trap because we're next to the arena and the convention center and we ordered seafood and I can remember that came on my plate I think man even had a stake as well I looked at it and I went we're now approaching for the first time where what we're charging doesn't match the value on the plate before we go on there I want you to talk because people don't know you have a culinary background as well a degree in all that wonderful stuff talk about when it's important to make sure that our value also equals what's on the plate that maybe it's time that we might have to change our menu because that guest perception even the greatest hospitality in the world can overcome when you're overcharging for something the part that easily keeps me away from your restaurant when I feel like it's going to be an expensive dinner a lot of times we're just going out for something quick to eat and if you get flagged in my mind that it's an expensive experience then I kind of save you for special occasions or just every once in a while and you don't become a regular on the circle of restaurants that we frequent so the experience provides the extra value in dollars because it's not what we're expecting and the food portions are a big part of it the the way you display it the the extra is the the price of your drinks there's so many ways to be smart about it look who I'm talking to right you got to understand the cost behind it and sell the products that that work for the restaurant to make sure you've got enough sales coming in to cover your prime cost properly and right that's the the bigger picture of it if you're not able to properly staff then you're not able to provide the experience that I'm expecting as the guest if you're in cost cutting mode and labors your biggest focus and well we can run with four tonight we we don't need that fifth or even sixth person and and they scramble and they run and they get behind and that to me is it's the leadership that's what drives all of this is having the the right management team to have that in place so that when it comes to service and value that you have all the tools that you need to provide that to the guest if you're running a 68% prime cost and your food cost is way out of line then you're considering shrinking portions and you're considering raising your prices but if maybe you talk to David and you put some more work behind it you find those extra 12 or 15 points so that you can have the right amount of staff to provide me with the experience and I guess the other part on that is making sure that the management team is in great shape so that all the little tiny the the knucklehead stuff is taking care of so that we operate smooth and when the first guest of the day orders iced tea with a lemon I don't come around the server alley and see it's not made yet so no big deal to the server right they throw it in and well it took me six minutes to get my iced tea and now it's warm so those little tiny things that that add up a lot so checklist good management help provide that value let's stay on the the lemon there there's stuff that drive you and I nuts we have again gone out all time and and I think you will agree that if I'm in a dining party odds are that's a restaurant that's going to fall down like I I swear if nine out of ten times you and I go out because I'm there they fall down I swear to goodness it is the worst luck in the world it's either a home run or a strikeout it really is with you we have some great experiences because of your character because of how you socialize with people you're wonderful to talk to and when a server really jumps on to that oh we have some memorable experiences well our good friends the salty brothers say that I'm intimidating to a server and I don't believe so I fun with that said let's talk about some of the things that drive me nuts but drive you nuts and and how that that affects the dining experience because you've got to pay attention to everything wait basically what you were saying a moment ago is you got to have your ship together you got to do restaurant one-on-one hot food hot cold food cold clean save work environment for your guests and employees wow customer service incredible product and now we know to go getting that product to somebody's place in a great a great condition so some of the things that turn me off while building into this guest that's going to be coming back over and over right you're trying to build this relationship so that they they trust you when we talked about the first impression well right in that first impression goes confusion which is one that the guests just don't like to be confused yeah whether that's I don't know how to get to your drive through or I didn't know how to order on your kiosks or look at this menu how many choices do I need and they're overwhelmed so that's one instant turn off whenever they're confused at all and to me still the the biggest turn off the one that just happens like that is any sense of attitude I see or hear or feel from any of the staff if I experienced it with my daughter the other day then he was pushing somebody out right at close and the guy just needed two more minutes and it was he was rude and I wasn't involved in it but I felt it so anytime the staff is just a little distant a little distracted a little frustrated we sense that and we feel that and it's just something that that's not why we dine out at all we don't want to be involved in your little issues between staff we we want pleasant wonderful smiles all the time and I guess that going back to the food that we've been talking about that is one of those big turnoffs anytime I get the the poor food it just it's an instant turn off also so there's a few that are very quick to turn people off and then there's ones that we put up with for a little while there's one restaurant locally here that I thoroughly love I love their food and I love the the owner it's a husband and wife and he can tell they're just working their butts off right through there all the time and everyone it's like a family in there it's so much fun but the place is filthy it's I just kind of cringe each time I go in and I know it's hard and he's running a busy restaurant and he's doing his best but there are things that I'll put up with a little bit but if I go in again and see it that dirty I I don't know if I can keep going back so well I I feel you like some of the things that that we've seen my pet peeves or especially service is when we travel and soften you and I travel on our own and you walk up to the host and the host says just one yeah I'm a freaking loser I've got no friends what do you mean just one right it's the waiting the drink is half full and if it's a soda or an iced tea and it's half full it means there's very little in there because there's so much ice so I'm about two sips away from being out of anything I don't want to be out and have to wonder if I don't want to have to have soup come and not have the table marked with the soup spoon I don't have a state come and the table not marked with a with a knife there are so many little things that that drive you and I crazy and we might be a little more critical than most but I don't think we are I think we're actually more forgiving because like this couple that you like their place like oh I feel for them I know what it is we've been in the industry we give them a little more leeway we may notice more but I think we're less harsh on them whereas today most guests when they have a bad experience they're going online and telling thousands of people can you go down some of the the key points pain points or things that drive you crazy that every owner really needs a pay attention to in the restaurant you hit a point in your dining experience at whatever level of of frustration and when that value isn't there is typically the the point that it hits you I paid what for this and you want your voice heard at that point most times and good management teams understand talk to them before they leave the building somehow some way don't let them leave solve the problem right then and there and I think for the most part that's a major focus on the chain restaurants it always has been they're putting out fires before they get carried away and if I we always relate it to the secret shopping scores so that's how I kind of put a a marker on it and if you have a an experience less than a 50 percent you're done you're just not coming back and that's when you're frustrated and you want to tell somebody in social media is pretty powerful on that it really is and we we look at it that's why they're still around and but the the dining experience in whatever shape or form you're trying to get into those 90 and the 90 percent are the little tiny things that we fully understand right we didn't get our silverware oh no problem here it is I'm sorry they take away from a secret shopping score but they don't genuinely pull away from the the big value and we've always found that if you have like three dining experiences at a high level that's when we start to to build this relationship and we start to trust you and we start to come back to you and in between it's very easy to see the restaurants that continually score 82% and 77% and 75 their sales just seem to stagger and they don't seem to get into that growth mode where a lot of the clients we work with that are just in the 90% and they're working it and they they really enjoy providing this value in the entire service model and they're opening new stores and they're they're growing and building so it's a true reflection of whatever type of experience I have when I walk out the door I do something with that either I want to come back to you quickly or I forget about you and when we forget about you a lot of times we might just beat for three or four months and we'll come back typically based on a certain food dish that we really enjoyed or based on price that's one thing that'll bring us back every three or four months after kind of a mediocre experience and the location if you're convenient and oh I'm just going to run over here for a bite tonight those are things that bring us back but what we found over the years is the piece that doesn't bring anybody back is the the people portion of it the just no connection and just very basic simple service that's we don't come back for basic let's let's stay on this for a second I remember there's a video clip that I saw of Gary Vee and John Taffer talking about customers coming back and John Taffer quoted some numbers and said that the first visit after a first visit you have less than a 50% chance of getting that person back now let's be very clear there's only three ways to increase your sales get a brand new customer to come in more come in the first time and that's often the most expensive form of marketing what it takes to grab a somebody's attention and bring them into your door get them to come back more often and spend more so we can build our business in fact some some experts talk about doubling your sales if you get your customers to come back one more visit a a month and spend 10% more and you know dot it up and we can get there so repeat business is critical especially if I spend a lot of money to get somebody in the door if I do a shitty job they don't come back I less than a 50% chance to bring them back many says if you get back a second time you have a 70% chance of getting them back and he went on and said if you get a third visit you own them they love you you're now in their cycle and so on and so forth so what is it what does it take to get that second visit to get me from a less than 50% chance to a 70% and then odds are if I do a great job on that second visit I'm going to own that third visit what is it it takes like what do what do you pay attention to in a restaurant that you say hey I can get somebody to a 90% because they did these things right all that the trust how he says he owns them that's where they've now tried everything they feel comfortable they they know your menu a little bit they they know where to park they know what your hours are so there's a comfort level with that first and that's why it's so hard to get people in the door right I don't know where to park I don't know what your hours are so getting them in the first time yeah biggest challenge and then the ideal model is to start to turn those into to regular guests getting them back for the second visit is also really tricky and they they know a little bit about you but they're still they maybe didn't find the the food dish that they love yet or they didn't know what the order and they were a little hesitant so that person starts to build that relationship right answer a few questions for them take 20 or 30 seconds extra on the menu and one of the biggest things I find is give them some type of welcome back offer something that that brings them back in right that starts to turn into some simple basic service systems right identify who the first guests are and if they've got that red napkin on the table the host is identified them well now it's the managers role to follow up and talk to them and bring them back that second visit because I'm much more comfortable second time around and I'm going to take a few extra minutes on the menu and I'm maybe going to ask a few more questions but that second visit is the key where you now start to build some type of relationship with the the people that's where I start to find comfort in the people that work there they seem very friendly and upbeat and I can feel the morale it just feels like a good place and that's what we seek whether that's a burger place or again an upscale restaurant it's where we feel comfortable and we are most affected by the people in relation to that comfort and you get them in that third time it's that trust and if I trust you now I'll throw in a caveat to that stat is that that third visit you want all three of those visits in that 90% scoring range you want to prove to them right off the bat three great experiences and now that trust I'm willing to tell a friend or two or I'm willing to to bring somebody else with me next time in and maybe after a couple more visits I'm willing to post something nice about you so that's the relationship but it just takes time to to build that and the restaurants that have been around 20 30 40 years they they understand this table seven is being coming in for brunch every single Sunday week after week after week and they love it there that's their place and they they feel a connection to it we want the the local Italian restaurant to do great because that's where we celebrate our anniversary so we're cheering for you we're rooting for you and we just want to feel connected to what you're doing that's so important you know sometimes we've got different kinds of guests we have the guests guests are coming in from out of town that may only be there once or they come in routinely over over the year but they're not locals you got your locals that we want to get them to come back and and here's the the real power let's say your restaurant all you had was once a month visitors every customer in the place comes in once a month well if you could implement the systems and have great hospitality and you made the feel comfortably come back all come back twice a month you just doubled your sales like the power of getting that second third visit is immense like it is nothing for a restaurant to say it could I increase my sales 10 to 25% if I really paid attention to the service part the food part the cleanliness part and so in a moment I'm going to ask you to tell people what you guys do as a secret shopping service and what that really means but can you talk about what the major categories are where the questions come from from service to product to timing maybe five different things that people really need to pay attention to on their own right now takeaways everybody has categories that are more important to their guests so it does vary some are trying to drive the business through a different type of accountability whether that's they're just trying to they're running really good and they're just trying to improve their suggestive selling or they want to make sure that their managers are on the floor so sometimes it's for the follow-up piece but typically it's the we're looking at individual sections for the first appearance and that's just everything in that first impression the first three or four minutes and we we break down into all the individual sections so it's the hostess it's the server quality of food and beverage timing becomes a big factor throughout the shopping reports because it's a big factor through the the dining experience and delays are something that we don't appreciate everybody wants to get out of there sure if you're going out for your anniversary you don't mind a few delays but for the most part but we want to come in have a nice experience and get on the road so whether it's a delay in that that first drink or it's a delay in the guest check that's being delivered we we certainly look a lot at those and the the llama the lighting the air the music the ambiance how comfortable it is how cool it is and every little tiny piece we we like to get very detailed on the cleanliness and organization and because we're seeing those with our own eyes and those are a lot of the easy pieces but yeah the the reports are individual to the restaurants obviously and a lot of it is driven based on their their priorities and honestly one that seems to be recently over and over and over with more and more and more and more importance is the suggestive selling restaurant owners really understand the opportunity right you've paid to to get the first time guests in there you're trying to make them comfortable and trust the environment build the value everything we've talked about and now it's bringing them back for more visits and it's selling a little bit to enhance meaning I always look at it as you're enhancing the income for the server if you can teach them how to sell $800 on a shift instead of 650 they'll make a few extra bucks yeah and you sell to enhance the bottom line of the restaurant and you understand that that extra $12 after they're already in here and ordering that's a great profit margin on those additional dollars and then to enhance the experience of the guest yeah that shrimp scampi for 695 was fantastic and it went really good with the meal that I ordered so I don't think about the price but I walk away now thinking that was a great appetizer that was a wonderful drink I'm really glad we got that add-on sauce for the bread it was it was perfect so all these little pieces helps everybody involved yeah great upselling is giving your guest a better experience because you're adding the dish they should have had you know that that going from a well vodka to a kettle one or a gray goose is a better drink you know that if they they didn't if they left your restaurant didn't have your signature side dish or your signature appetizer they would lose out and you go out of your way to say man I really highly recommend even to a point where you can start to go if you don't love it I'll take it off the bill no no questions asked like when you're that confident you are making your guest a better experience a memory and those are what you're ultimately trying to identify as those memorable experiences and they're not out there for every normal dining experience I'm just hungry and we're two friends just catching up for a meal I don't need to make it memorable but when you look at a week or a month that at how many guests you have coming in and out of your doors you can make it memorable for a handful or a couple dozen of them quite easy if you're looking at the opportunities right the the extra cells the extra conversations the the umbrella walking out to the the car with the lady because it just started raining just silly little tiny memorable pieces that now you really brought me into trusting you is now I've got a memory of you yeah yeah is there anything we didn't talk about when it comes to creating a long-term guest I know it's it's it's having consistent 90s on your scores but is there anything else that we missed on that it's all the fine little tiny details that we take for granted that really good restaurants know how to run really good operations and I find that the distractions or the additional time or the the problems that come up from not having your shift in order it really plays into the experience that I have and I feel like it's so simple to do but too many restaurants overlook the little tiny details yeah and think that all that's no big deal they they love us anyway and oh no they they had a great experience I'm sure everything was okay and it's just not enough we're we're in a business that the little details are all around us so many tasks to do every single week and you've got to be tracking them and make sure that you're you're ready for that lunch shift at 1050 not at 1150 when you're scrambling trying to get the shift back in order so pay attention to the little things and make them smile I know it sounds silly but it's still that one x factor that if I smile I I felt good about where I ate so it's a simple little gesture well I think the way I look at it is this it's systems and that's checklist and all the details and it's training making sure you don't you don't have a great experience at each table if you didn't train your people on what that experience is they don't handle a busy Friday night if they weren't trained to handle a busy Friday night if they're learning on the job in a busy Friday night and they're failing you're you're losing those guests you have to train and which ultimately comes down to you have to have a leader on the floor whether it's you as the owner whether it is a manager someone has to lead the process and that's critical all of this goes back to the basics of running a great hospitality organization a great restaurant we can talk about how to make money in the business as a whole other thing but right now if you don't do service well if you don't put out a great product if your place is dirty that's you man and this is where secret shopping is so important it is not only a great barometer of where you score with your guests on all these things it's a great training tool when you can come back and we had a guest come and have a shitty experience let me tell you what happened this is how we overcome that and what we do with it and it's the other is you and I have one of our favorite restaurants my favorite and it's not to piss off any of my members but it's always been okay chubby steakhouse and West Palm Beach Florida old members old company love them to death incredible experience you and I have driven two hours out of our way from a completely different city in Florida to go there because it's so phenomenal and I know for a fact that they are 90s all the time and they they continue the secret secret shopping because that one day that they're not a 90 whatever even if it's an 89 that is a major red flag to change something talk about what service with style does what do you do well right ok chubby they've got 65 70 years now in business just a phenomenal reputation and my personal opinion is because they take care of every single little detail there's there's nothing that's overlooked and they continue to strive to be a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better and one of the important pieces I think that that's where secret shopping plays into part of it it's the communication back to the team that a lot of times the managers understand what type of service and because they've hired good people they assume that they're doing everything that's needed and they're joking around with them in the kitchen so they must be providing this great service so there's a little bit of a follow up there to make sure that they are but there's also a communication piece to make sure that they understand all the tiny little details and service I find that most people feel like it's pretty simple right it's basic we smile we greet them on time and make sure that the refill is there so for the most part it is pretty basic but what we're trying to do is keep their focus on this and I think that we assume that they're doing it so we don't talk about it a lot and communicating back to the staff whether that's a shift meeting that's the perfect time to review some details from a secret shopping report and say hey we did these few things great and here is our total score we're trying to get up to a 95% and here's a few things we can work on just to talk about the basics and also from the manager meetings right hopefully everyone's having a weekly manager meeting but when you discuss the secret shopping report that's where a few focus items come from hey here's four or five things we need to keep our eye on and when those become bullet points in your shift meeting and you're reiterating those simple little bullet points for a week hey everyone it's the great times you know we're 45 seconds that's what we're looking for and you create the the consistency the the training piece of it so shopping and getting that report and reviewing it at the manager meeting taking it back to the staff for general and then sitting down with whether it's the manager or the server the bartender and again here's a few things we loved here's a few things maybe you didn't you weren't aware of and hopefully not but several times here's a few things we never want to see again and you just continue to try to get a little bit better and a little bit better so yeah most of the restaurants we work with find that once a month visit is enough to do that it keeps their staff on their toes it keeps the the focus on service where it needs to be and it's enough to provide a lot of really great information broken into all the sections and scoring and pictures and receipts and the whole whole works and a dynamite software piece behind that tracks all your scores and all the bells and whistles but ultimately you want to communicate that back to your team and use it as uh hey we just got shopped uh 91% thanks guys we're up from an 86 last month what's it going to take to get us to a 95 and how do we do that consistently and it's just something that has to be worked on it doesn't go away it's it's like managing your labor you never stop managing your labor every day your your focus on that and same as service it's something new all the time that you have to keep your focus on and I just want to be clear I I I gushed about you earlier said you're the number one secret shopping service out there and I mean that and a part of it is is the core values how you approach us you're a lifelong hospitality leader uh a trainer uh your coach you're all the things and you care so much to a point where your reports are phenomenal and you and I had a discussion just the other day I'm like hey use an AI it goes no no I'm going to continue to use human being editors because our standards are too high I do not want something that's going to be so I want people to understand that not only do I put my name on you and do I say you have the best reports but you live it you are you are delivering exactly what you want people to have and it's only the best how would they learn about you how do I find secret uh secret serving uh service with style if I wanted to start well again I appreciate that David and we we make it really simple it's um just a helpful tool so our website is where you'd start service with style dot com and if you go forward slash DSP there's uh just a special offer on there so if anyone wants to try it we'll we'll comp your first shop and then we'll also give you a discount on all the shops going forward and even if you just want one shop no problem um most like a once a month visit some do it once a quarter some do a breakfast this month and then two months later they do a bar and then a dinner and every report is built to your exact questions um no startup fees no cancellation fees no fees anywhere right it's uh just nice and simple and no contract no minimums and really good detailed reports there they're just we we take a lot of time to build them the the right way to to train the shoppers the right way and and we've just got a phenomenal base of shoppers that have been with us for for decades and know what to look for and the manager gets that report and says hey this is great uh let's let's now go to work on a few things to get better yeah amen so service with style dot com forward slash DSP for David Scott Peters I really appreciate you do they all they do David the easiest way is just schedule a quick call with us takes 10 minutes we run through the program get you set up uh if it's something you like great um but yeah just spend 10 minutes on the phone with us and you'll get all the details you need all right if you don't call if you don't set up a call you are you just don't you don't know what you're missing it's one of the things you don't know what you don't know you need to at least do one and get a flavor for what it is and I will tell you it's probably going to be it's like a crack dealer so here's your first hit you're going to want to see these reports on a routine basis because they really make a difference again I want to thank you for doing this for me today before we go is there a anything we didn't talk about you want to bring up a favorite book or favorite quote you want to leave people with that's a good one um I guess just one of the points that we barely touched on but I think is the the core to everything service everything restaurant everything operations it's that core manager meeting it's just something that I fully believe in and I guess the reason I bring it up is just recently at the California show again and had a good crowd and happened to ask who's running a regular manager meeting and they're just hardly any hands up in the air and I just feel like this is the the one piece to bring back every project that you're working on every problem you're trying to solve fantastic to train your young managers a little bit by little bit through educating them so I just hope everyone's having manager meetings and talking about service just a little bit during those meetings and run them smart death by meeting was a fantastic little book to help you set up meetings but I just think that the communication piece is a harder topic to continue in restaurants because of all the moving parts and that's communication central for me is the weekly manager meeting preach my friend preach it's goal to my ears Darren I want to thank you so much for doing this we'll do it again sometime soon um again really powerful stuff I hope everybody looks you up goes to servicewithstyle.com forward slash DSP get on a call take 10 minutes do a first shop I'm a promise you I'm promising you it's going to change your world when it comes to training standards and meeting your guest expectations thanks again Darren thank you yeah and thank you for having me on again and hopefully they can use service as a sales building tool get better and better and better at service it's just going to help you drive sales amen thanks David ready to take the next step towards achieving restaurant prosperity freedom of the daily grind and the financial success you deserve book a discovery call with Ryan James to learn about our group coaching program Ryan will guide you through how our program can transform your restaurant and help you achieve the prosperity and freedom you've been striving for click the link in the description below or visit dsp.coach/talk-2-Ryan the schedule you're called now hey that was an awesome episode I want to thank you for taking the time to take action on building a better more prosperous restaurant before you go I want to give you these three thoughts one by combining leadership and taking action with systems and training being checked by accountability you are on your way to creating prosperity for you and your restaurant two I have something I need from you please leave a review on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you happen to listen to podcasts by leaving us a review other restaurant pros seeking out this information are able to find it I read the reviews and hearing how this information has benefited you does wonders for me and three if you find any of the discussions helpful share them the more restaurant pros who have access to them the better we become as an industry for more restaurant resources or to get in contact with me connect with me at davidscottpeters.com be passionate about what you're doing be persistent but more importantly become better and help everyone around you become better and your restaurant is going to kick some ass