What is Success for USMNT at the World Cup? | Orange Slices w/ Heath Pearce

What is going on everybody welcome back to Orange Slices. I'm Heath Pierce. Today I'm joined by a special guest. He played for the United States in the 22 World Cup and the 24 Olympics and he's still locking things down for Toronto FC Walker Zimmerman Walker. It's going on man welcome to Orange Slices. You can just keep introducing me as many times as you want. The energy that respects man makes me feel good. We'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors. The biggest stage in World Soccer is here and every goal changes everything. Fandals giving you a reason to root for every single one. Introducing every goal pays. Bed on a match and get bonus bets for every goal scored in that match. More goals means more bonus bets and all you have to do is turn on your token. The US look like they are truly poised for a dream run at this point. From the opening whistle to the final kick let there be goals on Fandals. Visit fandall.com to get started now. 21 and over select state for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Starkocena. 18 and over in DC Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem called 1-800-Gamber or 1-800-My-Reset. In Connecticut call 1-888-789-77777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. In Maryland visit mdgamblinghelp.org. In Massachusetts visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. In New York call 1-877-8H-O-P-E-N-Y or text hope in Y. In Louisiana call 1-877-770-7867. And listen to Orange slices sponsored by Fandall Predicts wherever you get your podcast. Now let's get back to the show. I've talked about it on this show. I called you a legend when I saw you the other day. You didn't like the term but I do believe you are in that legend category both in what you've done in Major League Soccer as well as the national team. So I'm not back and off of that. So you're a legend to me and you're very much still part of the men's national team pool and growing your presence and growing the game. And now you're doing some stuff on the media side. So you've been in the studio covering the World Cup. What's that been like for you? You come from a background where generally being a captain you're doing a lot of media but usually it's a lot of softball type of questions, right? They put you in a good spot and it's like a Q&A but now you're probably experiencing a little bit more of you know you got to talk and it lives forever on the internet. Have you had any, you know, we've discussed Dax a couple of times over the last few weeks on his take on Messi? Has there been anything for you that you've said or maybe you've gotten a little bit of stick for or something you double down on since you've started into this media journey? Yes certainly a lot more hard-hitting questions, more moments that are getting probably a little bit more exposure than your local M.L.A.S media markets. I would say the one thing that I was just a part of a broadcast for was we were talking about Cape Verde and just the result that they had in their first game and the slander that we got in the comments of like don't give them their respect like we'd be here anyways like we're not just some small team that can't compete. It was more like that which was fine like I don't know he said anything bad we're just like it was a surprise like Spain's a good team like yeah I'm not saying that you have a bad team or shouldn't be there it's just it was a great result from an underdog sorry I called you an underdog so that was probably the biggest you know in terms of comments I will say it's been weird being on like social media now because a lot of the notifications are coming from the broadcast side of things and all the clips that you're tagged in so yeah it's been different it's been fun it's been a way to keep me really invested in both the U.S. and just the entire World Cup in general I'm getting to cover a lot more teams learn a lot about different players from other countries that I didn't know before and it's been a fun thing. You know I'm not a big like sports guy in general I don't watch a lot of sports right I just don't and like I did a I did a sports center hit two nights ago and the the Giannis trade was happening and they were waiting for it and they're like okay we're gonna push it an hour and then I jumped on and did it and the next morning I usually and I didn't even know so like I did the first one like a few weeks ago and like I'm getting all the dads in my neighborhood who are like sports junkies you know that don't even know what I they don't even know what I do they don't know my background they're like throwing it into these group chats and I was like okay people are people are watching this and then they were commenting on like how I pronounced uh Cape Verde and they're like well is it Cobble Verde or is it Cape Verde it's not Cape Verde and I started getting killed by these guys but then I realized like there are people that are just into all the sports and I got the like let down I the next day I sent an email going like hey do you guys have access to the clip and like hey man it was a great clip we loved working with you but it didn't air because uh you know the Giannis trade out and I was like yeah yeah and I like put a lot of time and energy and like you know invested into this whole thing and they're like this is like USD Raw and Level stuff you know when a player gets traded like this and so I got bumped and had to just eat the fact that like my take wasn't worthy of of getting on the show but you know for you just generally kind of going through this you you had a good point right now that that you you feel more invested right and it's hard when you're playing the game you like you have your games you're recapping your games you're prepping for the next one and then you watch the US and took me a long time by the way to watch the US when my career ended I just club was like whatever but like at the US level I just have this funny feeling and you're kind of feel and I want it your take on this you kind of feel weird you're kind of like oh I don't want my left like I could be 10 I was like six years removed and I was like I hope this left back has a shocker tonight you know I'm like I can't even you know I'm like I could still figure this whole thing out it's in a bit of a weird feeling but do you feel one what's the feeling for you around the the US because you're still very much part of the player pool and then two you know isn't it great to kind of like broaden that spectrum because you're doing the research you're doing the work and now you have this whole new insight into the global game that you really don't have time for otherwise for sure yeah I would say it's always a battle like you you want to be a part of the national team and so I've tried to work a lot on letting it be more about myself and my performances and like really rooting against you know the defenders or the center backs like it's inevitable that you're watching and if someone makes me say like oh like I could have done that like I could have been there um but I've tried to to progress more in my older age to be more mature about like less wishing bad upon them and we're like well let me just show that I'm better than them like so I'm trying to take that approach with the US right now like disappointed to not be there sure but at the same time like what an awesome opportunity I got to do at the broadcast side of things that I wouldn't have had and it got more time at home and now I'm I'm finding myself fully rooting this team on like these are my friends these are my guys that I have worked with in the past that I want them to do well individually for their own careers so I'm investing the US for sure like definitely rooting them on and to your point like learning about other teams like that is something that I didn't do I don't watch a lot of international football to begin with and so the chance to look at some of these teams and players and then when you're on a segment I'm like researching about or what could be a random player to some and I'm getting their stats I'm getting their club form I'm getting their transfer history and it's like it's a pretty different side of things I I felt definitely more invested in each and every game and not to mention you have predictions for pretty much every game so I'm like invested in that too it feels like oh I got to win this this pick right or get this pick right and my picks were terrible I mean it's it's it's it's it's it's it's funny because when you're a current player you have a little bit more of a hesitance to be like I'm gonna go out on a limb on this but on TV they're like you can't call a draw for every game you know you don't get to because we need you to pick one side or the other and it's such a toss up in the international game like again when we used to qualify you'd grind out results in Central America and you would you know for World Cup qualifying and you'd be more disciplined but everybody has a level of discipline everybody has a level of tactics now that the margins are just you know you mentioned you know Cape Verde like the margins are so slim that you saw Ghana doing the same thing just bunker in and being like we're gonna make it impossible for you to get through us if you're England and you know not just in a way that's playing not to lose but doing it in a disciplined way it's hard it's hard to predict things it's hard it's so hard to break down a low block and organize committed team and like I think that's what people don't understand about ConcaCaf as much is like you have all of that and add on the conditions that we're playing in like it's not easy and people are like oh like you're so much better than these other teams like I mean it's just tough in general to break down a lower block in a hard environment it's not as easy as we think and we've seen a lot of success from quote unquote underdogs in this World Cup. What's funny is we've had hektamereno I don't know if you know him but he's a great guy we've had him on a few times on the podcast and he's just been kind of coming and checking in it was a shared trauma and I didn't expect that to be the case because obviously this is a guy who you know has had to play his entire life I mean he's been most of his professional career in Europe but generally coming up in Mexico difficult environments things like that but he was like even as a Mexican player in Europe they were just like oh ConcaCaf what a joke like you know it's so easy to qualify there and he repeated like verbatim back the same difficulties and traumas that we go through in some of those difficult conditions and I was like thank you we just need more people from the region even from Central America being the ambassadors for like how challenging it actually is and now World Cup qualifying is different forever but you know just the shared trauma was really important for me to be like oh somebody from a different country is experiencing this as well and then also you add on the travel which now these other teams are experiencing oh the US is huge like we have to go from East Coast to West Coast whatever and then the heat like you're playing sometimes in some brutal conditions and we saw that in the club world cup even more so with teams that just couldn't handle some of the humidity in the heat like yeah it's not easy playing in these [BLANK_AUDIO] conditions and then add on a travel to like any further central America team. So, you know, it makes you feel a little bit better about the grind that is World Cup qualifying and I miss it. I love qualifying because you just find out who you are. It builds a lot of character. So, am I happy that we got the automatic qualification? Sure, but like, man, there's something about World Cup qualifying like in those hostile environments that is so special. For the 2022 World Cup qualifying, we did a project with Paramount Plus where we were hosting three watch parties, Kansas City, LA, and New York for the US Mexico game and we were like, guys, this is maybe the last time ever that there is like, you know, because 48 teams, it's, they're still, they're still stressed in that, but it is very different than like going into your last two match days and needing a certain amount to get out of it to get to qualifying. I think it's going to be forever different, but I remember being like, guys, take this in. This might be the last time that there is this level of like, angst and anxiety for the team to perform. Do you feel like qualifying is probably different forever at this point? I think so. I mean, adding another team or two from Cahka Caff, it's different. I will say though, like the region in general and as a whole, it's gotten a lot more competitive and a lot better and deeper with the rise of Canada, becoming more of a force, Panama has definitely improved over the last two cycles. Costa Rica maybe has gone down a little bit from what they were back in, you know, 2014, 2018, but you still have games against Jamaica, Honduras, like these teams are good. I'll salvage or like they can pose a threat, but I think when you add on those extra two spots from Cahka Caff, like you would like to think that that just gives the US and Mexico Canada a really good chance to, you know, consistently qualify. Yeah, before we talk about US Turkey, you were just coming off of a watch party with your teammates right, watching the Canada game. And I was with you last week sometime and you were saying that most of your team is Canadian, right? And now you've got the Academy players and there is a full kind of development pipeline. So what was it like now sitting with them watching this game and experiencing it almost like as an outsider knowing that, you know, what Canada means to so many people that you were just watching the game with? For sure, and it's not even just the teammates. I know our team is heavily Canadian, but also you're talking about staff, you know, kitchen crew, like everyone who's involved with the club, a lot of these people are Canadian and have lived in Canada their whole life. And so they were very passionate. Every big moment, every chance, it's like they're on the edge of their seat. They're standing up like, oh, and it's like adds the excitement to the match and got me cheering even harder for my teammates, you know, and Richie and former teammate Jacob, oh, so it's like you're rooting for those guys and obviously I want Canada to get a result today to win the group, but Switzerland proved that they're a top side as well. So we'll see who they end up matching up with, but it was fun to be a part of, you know, a closed down movie theater that felt like it was all all of us rooting for Canada. I'm looking here now. So Canada secures the second place position, right? In the group. And so they'll wait to find out who they're playing, but I mean, second pathway seems a lot better than being a third. So I mean, we'll find out how these things play out with the seating of the third teams. Like for us now, right? They secure the group. They could have a favor, like there's no favorable in the knock-arounds, right? Everything's different. Is it going to be Bosnia now, though? Since Bosnia won, like, aren't we lined up to play the third place winner of a group B? Like, I want to say that I heard that prior from some of these these teammates, but I'm not 100% sure that this is the case. I don't think so because I at least, I mean, it's funny that we're having this conversation in real time, but from what I understood, it goes into a seating of the third place. So that's one of the third place. Yeah, and it's like, it's like five different teams it can be based on where they fall into all this. So I could be wrong, but I think the most likely hood was that it's Bosnia. The big conversation is how much do you play, Polisic, rotating the players on yellows? But there's also like a massive need to have that continuity and momentum continue because you've been in it, like momentum is everything in any sort of tournament that goes into the knock-out rounds. Yeah, I think when I'm looking at this game, I think the priority is the rotation and health and obviously the yellow cards, obviously guys that have, you know, little injuries. So like, I'd be shocked if we play Polisic. I'd be shocked if we play anyone who's on a yellow, like I think it's be heavily rotated. And we'll see. We'll see, like, does he keep the guys into, have been starting who aren't on yellows and play in like 60 minutes and then sub guys on? For me, I think it's probably more of rotate and then sub on the guys who have been playing the last 30 minutes to get them like a little run out. That would be probably how I would approach it, but I think the main areas would be, you know, what are you going to do with the center back spots with Chris Richards being on the yellow? If you probably want to rotate, Temmere, so I mean, I would imagine that they're rotating at least two of those spots. But yeah, I think heavily rotation is the way to go. I think momentum can be carried in more than one way. It can be the other guy stepping up, providing a boost, getting them more into the tournament. And then also, like you said, if you want to keep them sharp, you can get sharp in your 2030 minute cameo. No problem. How unique is it this World Cup and that you're seeing it, the 26 player walkout in terms of, you know, you and I have both been in plenty of national team camps where you're waiting to get in and you feel part of the team, but dependent on results, you can sometimes feel, I don't know, disappointed in that you wanted to play or be more like, there's only so much you can be part of it, even when you're like the front row seat cheerleader for your team. How cool is that, I guess, of an experience to allow people to be out there and feel the energy of the stadium, not just tucked under a bench, what might be however many games and never really get them any minutes. I'm really enjoying that part, to be honest, because I think back to some of my favorite memories, and especially back to the last World Cup, is like, it's walking out for that first national anthem, seeing the friends and family, having that experience of like being so grateful in the moment. I think by bringing in all 26 players, like you're giving them that opportunity as well, to be a part of it, beyond the field, their families, their friends are there, they're seeing them out there, and you're getting to seeing your national anthem with all of your teammates. I think it's been cool, I like it. I know some are opposed and say, "Oh, you've got to earn that spot to be in the 11." But for me, it's like, they get their own chance with the starting 11 photo, you know, like, they'll get that, we'll get that memory, I think having the whole group out there together is a cool twist. You know, it's funny, and this just came to mind when you said that, is there was a pivotal moment in the national team, it had to be around 2009 or something like that, and they were structuring the bonuses, right? And obviously, the squads have gotten bigger, the substitutions have gotten bigger, but there was a real split in our national team between, in the veterans, that were getting sort of a voting right on this, between the game bonuses, right? And so obviously, if you, if the game bonuses are built for 20 players and you have 23 or 24 in camp and only 20 are addressing, there was a real split of like, guys were like, "No, you've got to earn your place on the field, and you've got to, and then like, Frankie Haydick at one point went to these guys and was like, you guys have no fucking clue, you know, like, this is not, you're not earning in one training session, you're right to play on the field, like, this is a very subjective thing, this is a team, it is a group, and I remember hearing that and being like, this guy's a leader, you know? And for me, as somebody who, I either started and played the full game or I didn't play at all, I wasn't in, like, I was very, I think of like my 35 caps, it was probably like two substitutions, and the rest were like, either I'm in or I'm on the bench, and that was the role, you know? And to have somebody like that stand up who was a veteran and was at the end of his career and was playing and could have easily been like, "No, this is, this money's for me, you know, this is money's for my kids, this money's for all the things that you can easily justify when money's involved." And to have that as a moment, and it's funny, you said that because it just came back to my mind of like a pivotal moment to me of seeing leadership in real time of being like, "Oh, the guys who don't dress that are in camp, they get $500." And then everybody else gets the game bonuses that dress, and that was like put to bed, but there were some guys that were like, "You've got to earn it." You've like, it's a, you know, that sort of thing, and I just felt it was wrong and to have a few of those leaders step up, like Frankie, I was like, you know, this is an incredible, incredible thing. Yeah, I mean, to your point, like that format did stick around for quite a bit, because I know it's still going on when I was kind of introducing some qualifiers in 2018, and they had the structure of like starting versus subbing on versus rostering versus not rostering. And the splits were very big. And it's like, yeah, you're still maybe making something, but it's nowhere near the same. And I'm not going to like divulge on all the breakdowns here, but I will say that is something that we changed as soon as we came in under Greg in terms of making sure that the guys who were even not appearing were getting paid, that we paid everyone out the same in terms of, you know, being involved in the group. And then once we got the qualifying, we did have a little bit of a structure, but we narrowed that margin a lot, lot closer to make it what we thought was more fair and equitable, and like everyone was invested in part of the team and felt taken care of in a way that was probably different than, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, and I think that's so important because it's a lot of mental stress when you go into camp, right? Like you're competing, you're doing the best that you can, but there's still a lot of things that are out of your hands. And you got to prove yourself at the club level and you got to prove yourself at the national team level. And I mean, by no means trying to create a scenario that's like a participation type of reward, but you can argue that it's harder for the players that are in camp and not playing than it is for the guys who are in their playing. I think that is pretty fair, both like maybe like physically, maybe you're not hitting as many meters, but you're having more hard days because now you're training really hard on the post match. If the game ends, you train right after and you get a crazy workout. And then you usually don't get the region on the other day, like you're pushing again. So I think mentally, like it's a grind in a different way. It's easier to run and get your meters in when you're playing a full better match that it just do some runs and small side afterwards where you're just getting a crazy workout in a short amount of time. And it's easy in those moments to feel isolated because like you said, you're not playing, then you're kind of adjacent to the group. They're doing a region, you're out competing again. And then it's like, it can create that separation. So the more that you can create these mechanisms that create that togetherness, you know, I thought was, especially when you look at the grand scheme of it, it was like 2% less for every player to like get everybody under the same level. But there's still some of those people that have every right to feel that they felt about it. It's like, no, no, like you fight for the spot when you get the spot, you fight like hell to keep the spot. And then you should be rewarded, however different than other people, which again, I, you know, some people like it, I wasn't one, especially in the national team, especially and again with that, like grit and fight in this American mentality and all the things you want to bring together, like you want to create as little friction as possible when going out on the field. So if I am on the bench and I'm not in my own head and I'm not depressed and sad and being like, why can't I? And you're going like first goal chance, you're running to the sideline in the way that that you want your teammates to do. Fendel is giving you a reason to root for every single one, introducing every goal pace. From the opening whistle to the final kick, let there be goals on Fandel. Visit Fandel.com to get started now. 21 and over select state. For Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino, 18 and over in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambleing problem called 1-800-Gamble or 1-800-MyReset. In Connecticut, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. In Maryland, visit mdgamblinghelp.org. In Massachusetts, visit gamblinghelplinemau.org or call 1-800-327-5050. In New York, call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or TEX, Hope NY. In Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. And listen to Orange slices sponsored by Fandel Predix, wherever you get your podcast. Let me ask you about your time under Potschstein. What was that experience like for you? I've talked to a few of the players and they said the intensity sometimes, two days before a game is through the roof in terms of load overall versus the modern game, which is much more data-driven measurements of training. But overall, what's the environment like? Everyone talks about the intensity. I think I hear it. It's not the state that we weren't tense under other coaches. I've been involved with other national coaches. It's just a little bit of a different style of training session. So I think the biggest difference for me and for those who are listening in is they emphasize a lot more harder and quick actions. So even the smaller spaces, Excel's, D-cells, very much the sprint, stop, sprint, stop, kind of training session that can really load your legs and make you a little bit heavy. Versus the full on 11s, your big space, your actually playing, you will do some of that and camp throughout the week. But the days that are harder, I feel like are more focused on some smaller and tighter spaces with a lot of Excel D-cell rather than like total meters. So it's just a different way of loading the legs, but they see those as football actions. Those are the moments that really matter. It's closing down 10 meters, then recovering 10 meters. So they really put an emphasis on those short and intense actions. What do you think is a measurement of success for this team? And you know it's all about draw and then it's all about being perfect on like near perfect on that day and we're seeing that across the biggest and the smallest teams of like if you can execute your game plan perfectly, you've got a chance against anybody. But it really does what we have an experienced outside of that first game against Paraguay is a moment of weakness where a compounding series of mistakes happen, right? You miss a header, you miss a challenge, you arrive late, you get scored on. And that happens all the time, right? And at the club level of just like how you break down a goal is never like, oh the guy missed a header. It's like a series of events and breakdowns. We haven't had to face that yet other than like a challenge at the near post from Freeman to get there first or a block from Tyler Adams in the box where he's arriving at the right time. But against a good team or a top opponent, like you might have to do that seven or eight times to stay perfect in the game. So obviously it's tough to really measure the success so far other than again being at least in my opinion, being united, being cohesive in the way that they're playing, having that that energy and really dictating. But not knowing that gives me fear of like what happens when another opponent can do all of that as well and maybe have a few difference makers. So for you, what's the ceiling for this team at least and what we've seen so far? Yeah, I think people look so much into finding like, oh, is it making it to a certain round or like going to the semi final, going to the quarter final? And it's like, for me, it's less about that. And like, can we just put together where every performance is something that we can hang our heads on and be like, that was an all around like we fought hard. We created chances. The other team got some chances because they're a good opponent and they score like, make sure that we play our game and have a good game in each outing. And we will give our chance to self-to-win if we do that. I think when you look at our group, we've gotten fortunate. Like, there's a lot of optimism and a lot of reason to be excited about our two performances. And yes, like, own goals can be created from good actions. But that's changed the way that the games have gone. And the reality is this turkey aside is the second best team in the group. I don't care that they're not going through. They're better than Paraguay and they're better than Australia. They've had 62 shots and two teams. They have attacking players that are world class. I think that they will present more challenge than what we've seen in the first two games, despite being out of the tournament. So it's going to be, and then, you know, it is a good thing that if they do rotate, it's always like, oh, well, even if the result doesn't go our way, like we were rotating, whatever. Like, there's kind of a narrative either way. It goes that it's going to be positive for the U.S. But I am hesitant to be overly optimistic because of how the two opponents have performed against us. And yeah, a lot of that is how well we do. But like, the reality is I think this turkey team is, turkey a team is better than the other two by a little bit of a margin. And so I'm curious to see what kind of team shows up there. You're getting to experience this is a, is it, again, a very unique position in that you're very much part of the pool. You're very much still playing, but you've also got to be the analyst. But it's also in our country, right? And so getting a chance now to see maybe some of your soccer adjacent friends and family. And I'm sure it's annoying to you in that position because you want to be on the field and you want to be with the team. But has it hit you on just how big it's become for maybe the adjacent fan or just general sports fan of just feeling like, okay, maybe they were naive in the sense of like how much momentum we really have, but just generally seeing everybody be like, let's go. Yeah, I think it's, it's a naive is, it's a great word because I think we are being a little bit naive in how well positioned like we are, like how good we've been. I don't want to take anything away from the group because they've put together two good solid performances. What the reality is, the teams on the day that we faced were not great. And Turkey should be a better challenge. Now we have afforded ourselves an amazing chance to have a great draw for the round of 32. So a lot of reasons got domestic, but we haven't faced that kind of world-class opponent that, you know, looking back to that Germany game, looking back at the Synagogue game, really good performances from us, but they were a lot of different games than the ones we saw against Paraguay and Australia. So I think it's the perfect situation for getting that soccer Jason fan to be excited about because now it's like, oh, you asked like, we won the group. We're moving forward. Like, this is it, but we got to make sure we keep bringing that same kind of performance every single time, no matter who the opponent is and what they present on the day. Let me talk a little bit about your mentality as a player. So like, I talk about this a lot that I'm assuming your dream going up, growing up, was to play for the national team. Is that a fair assessment? For sure. Once you've played for the national team, the goal post shift, right? So then your goal becomes, I want to play in a World Cup, right? You do that. But that's never enough, right? You never get to be like, okay, one, no, you tasted it. Now it's like, okay, now I want to, you know, I want to wear the captains band in a World Cup. I want to, you know, your goal just keeps on moving. Do you think, and, you know, Dax McCarty had a great answer when they came on and said, you know, when you've played 18 years in the league and, you know, you've got a chance to play for the national team and you've done great things like really tough to complain about what you've accomplished. But the athlete and the competitor in you never really take stock of that and, you know, you never really let that weakness come in where you're like, you know what? I'm good. So, you know, for you, kind of what was that journey and is your biggest memory playing in a World Cup or is it, or greatest memory of putting on the crest for the first time, sort of, if you can rank them, how would you rank them? I'll give you, I love that you're brought up because it's a perfect example and I remember this exact moment as clear as yesterday but I'm at my local YMCA I'm a senior in high school I'm getting ready for a U18 national team camp. I've been involved in the U14s, the U15s kind of had a gross birth some injuries didn't go to residency wasn't a part of the U17s. So this is my first time. By the way imagine if you stayed like 5/8 you know what would have happened to that guy. Yeah I have no idea no idea so it was a good thing that I missed out on that. Yeah but we're going into U18s I hadn't been involved so obviously for a year or two and I remember I was basically training doing a lot of like kind of mini triathlons where like it'd be after school I'd be going to the local Y doing a bike doing a swim, doing a run whatever. In this specific day I'm probably a week out from camp and I remember I'm pushing myself on the bike like trying to just kill myself getting fit for camp and I go I don't want to just make the U18 national team. I want to be the captain of the U18 national team and I'm saying this all my head and when I say it I'm like that doesn't feel like enough. I go I don't want to just be the captain of the U18 national team like I want to be on the full national team and it's still been sound like enough to me at the time. True story, swear on my life. I then was like I don't want to just be on the national team I want to be a captain of the national team and from that moment on it was a whole buildup of just like kind of was on the national team you know all the way through and ended up having the moment yeah you get your first cap whatever and then became the captain of the national team for the first time and it brought me back to that bike and I was like this feels right. This is this is right where I always dream to be but also where I expect it to be and I think a lot of athletes get asked like how could you ever imagine like that you would ever be playing in a World Cup or Olympics. My answer is always absolutely 100% yes because from the time I was like training and you know going through the youth national teams it was always like no like that's not good enough. I'm gonna keep working until it's this and then to your point like am I satisfied with one World Cup, one Olympics, one accolade and then last night no and thankfully I came to that realization like with my wife we were one off season a few years ago I think it was probably after the World Cup or a year after just come off a couple of defender of the years World Cup and she's like are you like satisfied with like what you've done and I literally was I thought about it and I was like honestly I think I'm at the point now where I don't think I will ever be satisfied or really able to take in what I've done until I'm completely done because you take the seven to ten days off every year and then you get back to the grind get back to the fitness back to the desire to win a championship or whatever it is that you set your mind to and you don't you don't think about it you don't have the time to pause and reflect because there is always something to your point that's next and so I love that question because that for me is I wish I saw that more in some teammates because either dating back to youth national team you would see guys that were the best on you 14 you 15 you're like where are they now than I would play and you're just like you were more talented than I was like I wish you just never stop and I'll be more proud of myself in my career if I can continue that mindset and then when I all hang him up I'll be like okay like well that was actually a decent career and I'll be able to take it all in it's funny you say that like I absolutely can imagine myself being there and I think that for the people that do end up making it at any elite level of any sport or industry you kind of live it a million times right almost to the point of like exhaustion right you live it in your sleep you live it all day long you know you sit sometimes you know you're sitting around and you're can't figure out why you're like stressed out or mad and you're reliving a goal you gave up or goal you scored or something you want to do or something you need to achieve and that like it's that visualization it's like that deep thought that you don't know you're doing some time and my my example is that and I didn't remember this till years later is I starting in seventh grade I started signing yearbooks heath peers US men's national team and I didn't remember this till years later but looking back I didn't remember that as a specific memory until friends started sending me pictures of this when I was like much older and achieved it of being like did you know I'm like in my mind like that was the only thing that mattered to me whatever it was gonna take I was gonna get to that level and put on the jersey that was coming out of 94 where I was like I want to be Kobe Jones you know back then though you're already living in this mindset of like like the belief has to go beyond any reasonable doubt and and then to like sort of program that and they continue to take steps on that it's hard though because you achieve something and then the next thing has to come because you realize maybe you didn't aim high enough or you're this close to the next to the next thing and you've got to keep going absolutely and that's like that's the motto for this national team it's like don't set a goal that we got to make us to a certain round you know don't say oh we got to make it the quarterfiles for it to be success it's like no you could you be anyone on any given day yes then why not trying to achieve that because you never want to feel like you now what happens if you say all quarterfinals would be great and then you make it the quarterfinals like oh well we did it like that's not a great great attitude so I love that did Bob Bradley ever say to you he used to say this in the national team and it opened my eyes up in a way that I didn't expect and it was some things a lot of things now because I retired when I was 31 I got to the point where had the hip surgery I had a tip-fim fracture the whole right leg was basically shutting down and the only thing that I measured my success on was can I play at the national team level and the moment that I couldn't I just knew that it was an unhealthy place for me physically if I couldn't get to that point that where my head and my body were on the same page to get to that I needed to be done but Bob used to say this thing in practice which is good idea but is there a better one and this saying to me was important in a lot of ways because it made me realize that there is no sort of binary right there's a binary in the score but generally there is a canvas and parameter set to the game did you ever hear that from from Bob or any other coaches that maybe said something to you that opened your eyes up to being like oh he complimented the ball but said in another way like is there a better ball out there is there a better option as opposed to completing that pass yeah I did hear that from Bob and it was usually like playing extra pass was like a big thing for us at L.A.F.D. because we were very possession oriented very dominant we get into attacking areas very well and he always stressed like make the extra pass was important but yeah I mean there are things that I think what I appreciate about coaches who are like that is especially as you become like on your path becoming a pro a lot of your coaches are like you're their guy because you've been the best on your youth teams you've been your best on your college teams or one of them and so coaches are typically like you know always compliment or review and I like the fact that a coach can then come in and say hey that's like that's a pro that's a pro level pass like here's a world class pass or like here's something that will take you to the next level so example would be like you 18 it's like yeah I'm winning every header in the back the coach is like hey I know you're winning like every header but can you complete every header to one of your teammates not just win it like aggressively and like long and far like can you fight a teammate and so now I think that's like one of my best traits is being able to not just win balls in the back but like very specifically and accurately place those those aerial goals so that's an example for me in my position of don't just win the ball like can you keep it with the header so that was a small detail that goes along with that that's a huge thing just those those little details that go from being like towering center back you know timing on the header the physical dual to then being like there are you know multiple phases beyond that that can separate you from the next guy which is obviously allowed you to win you know defender of the year and and a number of these things that you've done at this level do you have a we've had a you know a few different guys whether it's Kobe Jones Marcelo Belboa talk about like that first moment or their biggest world cup moment that sticks in their head do you have one that you distinctly remember whether it's at the hotel or with family or with friends or the moment on the field or the noise do you have one that's sort of like if if somebody said like draw a world cup memory that this is the one that you would write a paint for somebody yeah for me it's it's walking out and was the national anthem for the first game against Wales and it was looking over the family and friends and it wasn't just my family and friends I've talked about it before on some other different podcasts and media thing especially the last couple weeks and it's just like that moment of appreciation of like how much sacrifice that whole entire section did for for each one of us like I thought about obviously with my parents and brothers and wife at that point had done for me but then I was like oh my goodness it's the same for every single player that's out here we would not be here without a sacrifice and love of that section and so I was like overwhelmed with with gratitude but it wasn't like the gratitude of myself being there was like thank you guys so much for allowing us to fulfill our dream and and that was for sure the moment for me that was like the most real and the thing I'll probably remember the most I was very smart with my money and investments during my playing career I was very curious and kind of went down a number of routes early on including kind of starting to get into media while I was still playing but every once in a while I'd set a goal and be like if I do this I'm gonna buy this thing I've even incentivized yourself on any of the goals and then you know in terms of rewarding yourself with whether it's a expensive or not expensive item that's like a keep-sake for you as as something that you know you've rewarded yourself with because it's very easy to be like oh this player career is short and you should hoard all your money and you never know when it's going to end and all those things but you also have to find some little moments along the way to enjoy yourself. Yeah two things come to mind. The first one was some very close with Cristiano Don, Jordan Morris, Nair Long and we had kind of gone through the whole qualifying process together and we felt pretty good going into the final selection of the roster like like I think we're all going to make it because we had survived basically this like MLS camp in November that was in Dallas and sadly one of our friends Paul Ariola got the conversation with Greg there. Hey I'm not taking the World Cup. We were all four there we didn't have that conversation with Greg's we're like I think we're all going to be in the clear but we had said earlier in qualifying that if we all four had to be all four of us made the final World Cup squad that we would get a roll-its and I'm like not a huge spinner or designer type thing but you know the boys all made their roster so we all went and we got a roll-ix so I do have that. The other thing that my wife kind of like unintentionally started was when I won my first defender of the year she got me like a Gucci watch and was like you know this you should celebrate like these things and so then the next year when I wanted to get into me like Gucci slides just like I haven't even like worn really because I just I don't know I'm not a very fashionable person but it was it is cool in the sense of like having something that like I wouldn't normally buy for myself I now look at that watch I'll look at those shoes I'll look at the other watch and be like it's really cool every time I put it on because it's so connected to that memory and that moment and I think it's a really good thing for guys to to do is like and it doesn't have to be like it doesn't matter the the cost of it but like doing something intentional or having something intentional that you can anytime you you look at it that you see it and you wear it they're like man I am reflecting on proud of like what I did to earn this yeah that's that's that's great and it's it's hard when it's in real time too because you're like this is not that necessary and I had a few I had a few things so bees used to like basically spend his camp bonuses by picking up the tab after the games at places for us you know when we'd be like bees let us like he's like no I got this maybe he's like man life is good over there huh like amazing but I had a few times where myself and Tim Howard would go out and we get like you know a bag or you know we had messenger bags back then I had a messenger bag and a duffle and like I the worst thing I got though was I went I think we're in South Africa and Tim and I went and got these um Louis Vuitton it's called a pilot bag and so it's a roller bag but it doesn't fit anything like like to the point where it's like I like the only benefit that I have is like oh my kids will get really cool like vintage stuff someday you know and like that's also the problem is I've realized like that's my wife's justification for wanting nice things now which is like oh the kids will get it you know um but like it's a completely useless thing but when I got it it still felt like I I believe that was confederations cup and and we went and got it and and still to this day I'm like completely useless piece of luggage that like the kids could use for like a one night sleep over because it actually doesn't fit anything but also like a really cool memory that you know it's hard to explain when you're in camp and when you go through things and you know we beat some we beat Spain in the semi's and you lose to Brazil in the final but it still feels like this really massive thing in your history you can only tell the story so many times so to have something outside of a jersey or you know a match ticket or something uh does feel like a reward do you think you'll keep that going yeah I mean probably we uh more Gucci slides I mean that's the goal right I don't think I'm doing it to get something to sign or because I don't really wear it but uh yeah I think I want to try and cement like a legacy in this league and and for my family to look look on years from now to be cool like when the kids grow up and like oh like you you actually play the decent amount like yeah yeah that was a grinder like don't you worry about that did you make it on uh Dax's Wall of Fame that he built at his house yeah of course not it's unreal right the level of the lack of loyalty that it's just like the a list of none of the friends and teammates he looks at the Instagram followers of the people on the wall and he goes in order so he's like okay messy uh Bonnary and and you know we don't have that many followers we don't have that cloud so yeah it's a shame that it's like people he doesn't know make it on the wall but the people that he does know in respect like they have no chance they're they're with honey and crashing yeah exactly the the reality is is that 10 years from now when you get to kind of that gap that I am from playing the game and we're the only ones texting them back we're getting up on that wall right away you know and you know that he's gonna have those things framed and he's gonna get us on the wall yeah it'll it'll it'll it'll come well anyways man we'll let you get going we appreciate you jumping on to orange slices it's always great to kind of hear your brain and the unique position that you're in because one I don't envy it because everybody expects you to say something uh and everybody expects to take and you also have to navigate your role as a leader within the league a leader within the national team a leader at your club team and uh so so I appreciate the fact that you're willing to put yourself out here this summer and and obviously think that you've got a bright future in media if you want to go down that route but I appreciate you hanging out with us of course man anytime thanks for having me on of course and if you haven't already make sure you comment like and subscribe to orange slices follow us on slice a soccer leave us a rating and review and until next time on behalf of myself our production team as well as walkers in remin we'll see you guys on the next one the orange slices podcast is a four soccer production in association with jimin i13 executive producers are heath pierce charles steinauer and marcarine associate producers Alexis Aroncio Jenna Martin and JJ Casillo written and produced by Mike millberger edited by daniel rue with a special thanks to fandall predicts scott tish orange slices podcast 2026 all rights reserved