What Is Programmatic SEO and How Can You Profit from It? Ep. #043

There are 200,000 average monthly searches for Botox alone only in the US and the competition is low. So top of page bed is five bucks, but it's still low competition, 22% year-over-year change. So completely sold on this, more generally speaking, I'm completely sold on lead generation sites with programmatic SEO and basically automated AI-generated content, plus paid Google ads. We have three tier strategy. So we're trying this. All right, welcome to the corner office. I'm still fired up from this episode I just had with Connor Gross. He's a guy I met on Twitter that's a lot like me. He's 10 years younger than me. He lives in New York, but he has an e-commerce business. He buys self storage. He wholesale self storage. He made 360 grand profit on a wholesale deal. He's just always ideating, launching things, hacking, like he's all like me. And so I want to start interviewing people like that where we can just riff on ideas. And we had no shortage of ideas. Programmatic SEO, lead generation sites, Botox, high rocks, selling energy bars, you name it. For like 50 minutes, we just jammed on ideas, non-stop, and it was really fun. So let me know if you like it. And I want to have Connor on every month or so. Enjoy. We've got Connor Gross here. Connor is a friend that I met on Twitter, and he's a lot like me except younger. You're in your 20s, right, Connor? Yeah, I just turned 27 last month. So 10 years apart, I'm 37. So Connor lives in New York, and he buys self storage, and he starts businesses, and he's an e-commerce. And we're doing a lot of the same stuff, and he's definitely an idea guy. So I just wanted Connor to come on and just talk business ideas and just riff on some cool stuff. Yeah, man. I mean, it's funny hearing you say the idea guy part too, because I was on a call yesterday with a friend who actually lives in Dallas for a month, so remind me to connect with him if I haven't yet. And we were talking, he's two years younger than I am, and he was like, oh, yeah, I want to launch this business, because I'm doing these things. He has two companies right now, both of them pay him a ton of money, and he makes good money on it. But he's like, I'm not going to spoil the idea that he wants to go after only because he's very into it. But he's like, I want to do this, and I want to do this for the next 50 years, and this is going to be my big thing. And he's like, I have so many ideas. I hate the fact that I'm getting like, you know, shining objects syndrome, and he was like, what about you? Like, what's your favorite business that you run on now? It's like, well, if I'm being honest, it's probably going to be the next one, because things always seem better when you haven't started them yet. And it's like that classic, I don't know if you've seen the graph before, but it's like, you know, you got this idea, you're like, why isn't anyone thought about this yet? And then you start getting into it, you're like, oh, there's actually a ton of competition for this. And then you start launching it, you're like, this is really hard. And then you get a winner too. And you're like, okay, it's actually not as bad as I thought. Like, coming from the idea guy background, it's like, your favorite idea is always the next one, because you don't know all the headaches and frustration and struggles that are going to, you know, be a part of that journey. I know. And it's kind of like, we're hardwired to forget. Like forgetting is a feature, not a bug. Like when I run ultra marathons, every single time, throughout the whole thing, I'm like, this is stupid. I'm an idiot. You're dumb. Why are you doing this? No one cares that you're out here. This literally doesn't matter. You're an extreme pain. This takes 36 hours. Never do this again. And then I cross the finish line, and I feel good, and then it's like, okay, whoo, that was awesome. I'm glad I finished, but never doing again. And then like two days later, like, as if I could set an alarm to it, I start looking up in the next race. It's like, what? And say with businesses, like, all right, this is really hard. This is really hard. Like, let's stick to what you know. Like, don't go out of your comfort zone. And then I just, either I'm an idiot, or I just forget, and I do it all over. No, it's, I think it's human nature to forget. Like right now, I'm moving into New York, I'm in Jersey at the time of this recording. My girlfriend took the bar, the New York law bar last year. I remember her being extremely stressed out the entire time, and she was, we were talking about it this past weekend because everyone's getting ready to take the bar again. And she was like, oh, it wasn't that bad. I was like, you forget. It's very, it's very common nature to only remember the good things from a situation. So. Yes. Yes. So you texted me about this idea. What is Tegas? Oh, you don't know Tegas? I don't know Tegas. Is that, is that like an indie band? Tegas blew up. Tegas is, well, okay, let me, let me just Google the things that I can read out the exact name of it. But it's effectively like intelligence, research, insights. So if you ever remember these companies where they, they'll effectively say you have a hundred million dollar funds and you want to figure out, you know, you want to get involved in, let's just use self storage because it's relevant. You want to get involved in the self storage sector. Great. You know nothing about self storage. Tegas is going to connect you with everyone who owns, they're, with professionals and people in the industry who own own or like are involved in self storage. So real leaders, brokers, owners, sellers, wholesalers, whatever, like if you are in the space and you know what you're talking about, they are going to connect you with them. Now, there are plenty of these like consulting style platforms. The really interesting and arguably genius part of what Tegas is doing is they're not marking up the conversation. So if I turn around and say, you know something, I'm about to have conversations all day along about self storage, put some time on my calendar to you guys, you know, build me out of 250 an hour. The normal company is going to say, all right, we're going to charge $500 an hour to meet with Connor and we are going to take the difference. Tegas is like, is that like Cadillan? I think Cadillan does that, yep, Cadillan does that, who are some alpha sites does that? There are a couple other ones that do it and they, you know, they mark you up as for your service, but they're also, you know, bringing the client in so they provide a value. What Tegas does is pretty interesting is, so you play a, hey, a platform fee, kind of forget about the platform fee is on their website right now, but like any good company, they have a pricing page and don't put the pricing on the other website. So they will say, all right, I think it's a cloud 10 grandity, let's call it. You pay to that, you get unlimited access to the people you want to talk to and with no markup, so it's like the Costco-esque model. But more than that, what you're also paying for is you get access to a database or a library of all of the other conversations that have ever been had on the platform and so because they transcribe them. And so when they tell you, it's like, all right, if you book a time with Connor and you talk about self storage and you talk about how you want to, you know, take advantage of a deal down in Southeast Florida, whatever, they'll, they'll remove like the incriminating slash, you know, highly personal details of the conversation, but they will include the key insights and they'll give you a two, I think it's a two to three week head start to act on that information. And then afterwards, the transcribing and the recording of the data is then put into their database as well. I think that this is a super interesting type of business because it gets you all of this really unique data without you having to build it at all like it's crowdsource data effectively. And building some kind of research company that can then turn into a data product, I forgot another example after I finished this ramp, I think it'd be really, really profitable. So who's paying the platform fees that people like taking the calls or making the calls? The people that are making the calls. So if you are, if I'm a big hedge fund and I want to learn about self storage, I say five to ten grand a year and then the self storage expert doesn't pay anything, he gets paid an hourly rate. Yep, the self storage expert gets paid an hourly rate, right? So the TIGUS is reaching out to these experts and they are saying, join the platform, it costs you nothing, you can only make more money. So it's a no brainer pitch. Okay. It's also a pretty cool like, you know, from just to give you an idea in terms of like their customer base, they have 3000 customers and they're so like, I don't know, you not come from the e-commerce world, 3000 customers is cool, it's not anything crazy, but they have 3000 customers, but they're valued at $4 billion. They do a lot in revenue and they have grown like a weed in the last five to six years. So I think that one is really cool. And so let me give you another breakdown in terms of this business model applied in a different industry that can be a little bit more rich because I think it's like more than we could wrap things around. Yeah. So I've got a friend, college buddy, one of my older mates, he is in the food sector. So crazy background, but like he graduated college and moved up to Montana, lived on a bison ranch and started basically creating their bison jerky line and like marketing it towards independent grocers and chain stores and all that. He quickly realized, damn, if you want to navigate either any of these small stores, like, you know, Joe's health food store in the corner of 123 Main Street or if you want to get into Kroger's nationwide, it's really hard because the little guys don't have their contact information online because they don't need it. And the big guys don't have their contact information online because it's a hell of an old work chart and it's difficult to navigate. So he has since left that jerky business and he's working with someone else right now and what they do is they sell a service to small independent brands. So if you have your Chris's coffee and he says, okay, I'm going to get you into every, you know, I'm going to be your business development arm and you're great at making coffee. I'm great at sales. We are going to call around all of these stores to try to get you into all of the shops that you need. Our markup is we charge a small flat fee slash a recurring fee plus x percentage of whatever the P.O. is that we get you at that company, right? So that alone is a good model. It's a, you can back into the profit on that model. It's a recurring revenue. You eat when you kill say, you know, you're only getting part of the upside and it needs to be showed like it appeals well. He's kind of like a broker, right? Like he builds up all these relationships. Maybe it's with Joe, the owner of one grocery store. Maybe it's the regional buyer for Albert Sins and he's like, Hey, I've got some bison jerky for you. Hey, I've got some bison jerky for you. got some organic coffee for you and just cut off the purchase order. And so he's a broker in that sense and he builds up the business development arms for these different companies. But the other really interesting thing that he does is he's basically like turning the light switch on the room and he's like, all right, here's the contact information for the small guys. Here's the org chart. If he's the buyer in this category, the email and their phone number in this category. And he takes all of this information and he basically settles his CRM. So he sells the CRM as a data product where he says, you're a small independent company. You want to get into retail. You don't want to pay me. That's fine. You don't have to pay me by my data product instead. And I think that's really cool because the data is essentially the sawdust. Let's call it. Yeah, yeah. All of the work that he's doing for this service brand, which is already profitable. And now the cost of good sold or like a product essentially selling is a zero dollar fulfillment cost because he already has it built down. So he's doing both. He's doing both. He's doing like the higher ticket, but harder part of just calling these guys on behalf of the food brands. And then he's just, is the data that he's selling just a monthly subscription or a one-time fee or what? Yep. Monthly subscription. You get access to it. It's updated on its daily basis. You get new buyer information. You get a new amount of contact information where they're at, like, it's a cool concept. That is cool because I mean, he's probably going to end up making more than these food brands are. He'll definitely, I mean, unless he's working for the RX part, right? You know, eventually the food brand is the biz-devin house, but he will definitely be making more than the food brands, I think. Yeah, I mean, I, like, we used to own a company called Sandeets where we did all the logistics for these niche food brands and they don't make any money. Most of them go out of business. It's a really brutal tough business. So I'd rather be on the data side of it. I agree. There were, I went to school up in Boston, went to Northeastern. There were two guys, one was in school, one after I graduated that I got in contact with. And the poster child of entrepreneurship in Northeastern during the time that I was there was this company called Eat Your Coffee. They sold, essentially, call it RX bars with caffeine infused in them. Cool concept. It was really niche. And like, this is also coming during the time when, like, right now, I feel like if I want Twitter, if I'm reading entrepreneurship stuff, people are leaning more towards the boring stuff, the things that are proven ideas. This was during the time when, like, people wanted that Uber. People wanted to hear you run a company, not just at its a painting company, but into sexy brands. And the guys that were running this company, they launched it. They formulated a way to get caffeine into a bar. They scaled up. They got some fund raising. They got into retail. But I think at the end of the day, they had, you know, and okay, exit. Like, you have to down-talk them. Good friends of mine. But like, you know, they had a fine exit. It wasn't like, like, they are retired on a beach somewhere. After that, you know, I'm now two, three, four years post-grad at this point. I had a conversation with his other kid who's at it with Easter and he's like, I am launching seaweed chocolate bar. And I was like, and he's like, oh, there's all the benefits of the seaweed. And I was like, dude, you seem smart. Like, you seem like a hustler. Like, I can tell just based on the fact that we're on this phone right now. Like, you're like, come on, play ideas. You like launching stuff. You're like an entrepreneurial person. Like, you will be successful in something that you do. I'd never want you to be the bear of bad news when it comes to it. Like, prove me if this is the case. But I would say you can probably make more money doing something that is more proven out. Yeah. So, you know, unless you're like the RX bar founder who, I know, I don't know if you've seen anything. Yeah, yeah. Have you seen the new product that he's launching? What's it called? I think it's called David. I think it's what David's bar. I don't know if I heard of that. Is it shit? It's foreign? I think so. I was like, the Greek sculpted God. Yeah, it's going to be cool. I don't know. He does it. But it's like 100 protein. Yeah. It's 150 calorie protein bar with 28 grams of protein. Holy cow. I'm looking at it right now. It has like a gold wrapper. David. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think he's launching it. But you're like, hey, you're the RX guy. RX guy was like the pinnacle of all this stuff a few years ago. And now you're building this ultra macro bar. You're going to be pretty successful. Well, the problem with these food brands is you don't make any money until hopefully one day you get a big exit like RX bar. Because if you're growing, then you have no cash. You're constantly raising cash and spending it on new inventory. So is the inventory game. Yeah. That's the problem. I mean, commerce game. I know. I know. I will say on that, though. Do you want to talk about the other thing I texted you because this is a food company. I won't say who told me it because I don't like outing people in public. I don't think these numbers are private. Do you know element? I would assume, right? Element. What? The electrolytes? No. I don't know if I do. I don't know these guys. Okay. Look them up. And then just for the sake of this call. All right. So. Yes. I've seen this. I've seen this before, but I don't consume this. You don't. Any reason why? Or just just having it around. So I don't see it around. Like it looks familiar. The branding looks familiar. But yeah, I don't see it around. Okay. So I know, I know we're kind of putting on the spot here right now, but these are electrolyte packets. They've got salt in them. They have potassium, magnesium, like their whole thesis is the FDA, or whoever is in charge of the narrative around nutrition in the US, always saying salt is bad, sodium is bad, have no salt, have no sodium. They're like, okay, if you are sedentary in your lifestyle and you have like diabetes, sure. You're an athlete. If you're mildly fit. If you sweat during the day, if you like have cognitive functions that require a lot of your focus by the day, the average American is actually not getting enough salt. For their group for their day to day. And so they create these really easy supplement packets where you're dropping a drink. I buy them all the time. They taste great. They're solid. And genuinely notice that like, if not even if you're hungry over, but like if coffee's just not doing it for you, because maybe you've drank in your third cup of coffee and you're super dehydrated at this point, these actually make me feel better, both physically and mentally, because it's like, oh, yeah, I'm like root finishing something in my body. Seeing what you see now, how much do you think they do in sales and profit? I know that's a loaded question. First of all, like before I even get there, like I totally agree with you, like I did keto a while back. And like all of the issues that people have of keto is because lack of salt, right? And like if you can get enough salt, magnesium, potassium in, you're fine. And when I was running Ultramarathons, like it all came down to electrolytes. And I genuinely believe that not enough people are drinking electrolytes on a daily basis. So I'm sold on the thesis, like geez, I don't know, nine figures, top line, eight figures, bottom line, 130 million in sales and with like, let's say, 22% margins. Okay, you're extreme because 200 million top line, 40 million bottom line. Dang, okay. Wow. For a salt packet, that's pretty crazy. It's crazy, because I want to launch something like this, I wrote a newsletter about it. Did you read that? It's called Busy Juice. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I did. I did. Yeah, it's just because like I, I have the same problem. I want to drink a gallon of water a day, but water's boring, right? And so I started getting those meow packets just to make it more flavor to then it's like, okay, this is like 100% red dye number 40 and I'm drinking a gallon of it. Like, I don't know what I'm doing, but this can't, and it's not like I felt bad. I felt, I just thought this can't be good for me, right? Yeah. I just started, yeah, I just started ordering crap on Amazon and kind of experimenting, tinkering and came up with this lemonade and it tastes like Chick-fil-A lemonade, but it's just lemon, stevia, and caffeine. And I drink again. And so I know exactly what's in it and it's caffeinated and it keeps me energized all day long and it keeps me hydrated. And I can even put light salt. So light salt is like part potassium, part sodium. And then you just got to throw some magnesium in there and you've got all your electrolytes. So I've been drinking this myself and like, I planned to sell it one day, but it's one of those things where it's like, you've got a consumer package good and it's e-commerce, like food. It's like all the hard things, so I'm not, I'm not excited about starting it, but I also want to. But I will say, so, you know, don't sell the liquid, right? Like, I think I was going to do only do powder. I bet you could probably do that. So I know I've run on the day, on your life by Microsoft. Anyway, like, a lot of cool things from that book, it's like, you know it all, but it's like a good read because it's just talks about, hey, here's how to think about having a successful day as it relates to relationships working out, like, you know, eating, like all of this type of stuff. But it always talks about, and there's something that I did for like a year afterwards and now I'm more on the element game. But you wake up in the morning, you're already dehydrated, rather than just like, don't drink coffee right away, like, you know, this is all the energy movement stuff to now, but drink a glass of water and squeeze like a wedge of lemon in it and a little bit of salt, drink that show for like 20 minutes and then gave it a coffee. And I started doing that. I was like, wow, this is like, maybe placebo, sure, noticeably different for me. And I feel like for your busy juice thing too, I could also see like, you know, maybe something that elements not doing is they got a magnesium potassium, whatever. But like, even very small particles of dehydrated lemon, dehydrated orange could potentially be cool as well. So I mean, I don't want to just make this an ad for like an intellectual, I think the reason I texted you for my business standpoint is this is also an idea that I've had for a while. There is this entire category that I've talked about for two to three years that I really like, but unfortunately, the hard execute upon category and the category is essentially like minimalism and a sense. So I really like the idea of detoxing, you know, using your firmness. I really like the idea of meditation, I like the idea. of fasting, things that are essentially removing the stimulus and you know extra things that are constantly sold to us on a daily basis. The tough part about that category is like by nature it's hard to create products and services in that category because you want to do less. And I think that with element knowing how big it is and I think people are starting to begin to see that they are either doing a lot of sales or everywhere. I think that doing very niche versions of that would be extremely beneficial. So niche versions are from one of two ways. One is the what does it help with? Okay, collagen element can, you know, for nails and skin and all of that. It's something that overdone a little bit. But the one that I wanted to do was just called like fast right or something like that. And it's literally element designed for people who do intermittent fasting. It doesn't break their fast. Exactly. So it's it's you wake up in the morning, you put this in the water exactly what I just described here from the beginning of the day side. And it's got supplement style margins, right? You sell you sell the thing for you know 80 90% gross margins on it. And you just put it in your water in the morning and you get after it and you drink your black coffee and you have this doesn't break the fast. Make sure you have your lecture lights, no flavoring you can add flavoring if you want whatever. But like I think that is a cool concept or you could genuinely just take it and like slap a sport thing on it. And so I have it be element for soccer element football. I'll never track whatever. What about like even element for like ultra endurance events and you could you could distribute that by just sending free packets to all the races to just put in like the race packets. Yep, only marathon a couple years ago and like there was noon everywhere. The new things the idea is not new. It's like there's a bunch of these coming out. But everyone wants to be the nighties. Everyone wants to be the something to everyone category. Like even okay. I don't know if you did this but like would you always eat before you would go on runs? Not usually I usually ran faster. Same. So I feel like a sick name would be run fast. Yeah. And it's like little salt packets before and it's like, yeah catch a double entendres of the word. Or it's like, okay, you're running any fast state. Make sure you at least have the lecture lights that you need prior to going. Dude, one of the stupidest good ideas that I had about a month ago on this podcast is electrolytes for dogs. Because I went around and I came home and my dog just started licking me. Which he doesn't normally do and I'm thinking you just need electrolytes. Like you are leaching my salt. Then I thought, huh, if I were like a dog lover, I would think, Oh, you poor thing. You know, like I need I'm not. I love my dog, but I'm not like a dog person. So that you could totally just get literally get some co-packer that has salt magnesium and potassium to put it in a container and just like put this label on it for dogs dog. And just sprinkle it on their food. And I was going to say everyone's targeting the dog food bowl, right? Like you look at farmer's dog. It's a hundred million dollar plus business. Everyone's targeting the dog food bowl. No one's talking about the dog water bowl. And it's just one, like literally at the same exact story I went down the shore in Jersey right now. I went swimming in the ocean yesterday. I came back and my parents dog was just like, look at my ankle. I was like, oh, yeah, I probably want the salt. But like, you know, the most fun thing that happens to a dog's water bowl is people get easy put ice in it. Like, there's got to be something better than that for the dog. And especially people who want the supplements or whatever. I think even honestly, I wonder if it would change the taste or if they would notice. But like people who give dogs or supplements, that's a big category. No, if anyone is doing dog supplement powders where you just mix it into the water bowl. That seems pretty interesting to me. I don't know, you know, dogs don't drink all their water when sitting. Like it, it recrystallizes or you have to mix it occasionally that might be annoying. I don't know if it's viable. But I could see that being kind of cool. You know what else you could do that isn't like it isn't as easily shipable as a powder. But have you ever, have you ever been deer hunting or anything? I love that. Yeah. So when you go deer hunting, you can buy like these salt blocks. And you'll put it out there by by the stand and the deer will come and just look it because they need salt. I wonder if you could get those like get the same manufacturer to just like break them down into much smaller. Pieces and just put that like next to the bowl or like the food bowl or the water bowl because that is one concern is like. Your customers might over salt the dog and like kill them and they could be a big liability. But if it was like if the dog could control the level of salt that he was taking in, it could be a different experience altogether. Oh 100%. I will also say just that would remind me of a small story that you would appreciate being an ultra runner. So I have a friends is in dry and we grew up in the same town together and the guy is just a savage. He runs ultra marathons several times a year. Like he's done like the Moab 240. And like that was not the same. It's insane. Well with the craziest part about it to it isn't the Moab 240 like I always joke about this. It's like 242 miles and they're like we're just going to round down. Like when you're at the point where it's so many miles that like you just round down. But anyway the guy is not built like a runner. He's 510 190 pounds stocky guy but he's but he's just mentally different. And he was telling me the story where he had one DNF. And for listeners right now who don't know if the NFS DNF did not finish. So he said one DNF in his entire career. And the DNF came because he was training here in New Jersey all summer for this race. I think it was the big foot something one of the big foot races. That's one of the other 200 miles. It's in Washington like Mount Olympus. Okay so that's 200. Yeah so he was training for that. And when he's out here training I guess you know this as well like you take salt packets. Because you sweat so much and it's not like you run on a marathon or it's like okay I can get through it. Like the points where like if you don't have the solver. It's like you're shutting down. And so he's taking salt packets out here. Because of summer time and he's sweating like crazy and he goes around the race. And he made two mistakes. The first mistake he made was he bought salt packets. But he like just bought that out of a CVS or whatever and didn't look at them. And there were three times the strength of what he had been taking out here. And then secondly the climate was dramatically different. I think if you said Washington, I thought it was Colorado for some reason. But like somewhere it was just drier and less humid. And so he was sweating less materially. And so he was taking three times more salt and sweating you know call it 30% less. And he hit a point where he's like mile 95. He's like my feet are so swollen that I physically cannot move anymore. And like I think he broke some bones and stuff like that. So yeah it's not the derail from the dog supplement one but it's a crazy story. No I've done that because it's really hard to regulate or even know how much salt you need. Like I'd run ultramarathons and I'd roll up to an eight station and they'd have salt pills and I'm just like seven. Sure you know and then like yep. I go to change my shoes and my feet look like elephant feet. They're insane. And then and then I'll start peeing like every 10 minutes on the trail. Like insane amount and it's just getting all those fluids out because you've been retaining it. So I could totally see that happening. They're a crazy business is also great about sorry actually very unimpressed with businesses. It seems like from Ryan who I talked to. He says how you know he'll go to a race and there are a ton of volunteers. And there are like 35 people that started line. I was like is the race making money? I know. No these people just love their stuff. I know like I wonder the same thing. They're always begging for volunteers but then they have you know 3000 interns paying 200 bucks a piece. How are you not making money on this? What are your thoughts on high rocks? Okay what is high rocks? You know the high rocks? Dude I don't I don't know high rock. Well so okay so look it up. So high rocks is I think you also are taking off. It is crossfit but different. Okay it's like a tough mudder but for crossfit? Yes. Well so it's how to explain. Anyone who listens to this right now that actually does high rock is going to critique the hell out of my description. So I'll read the summary. Yes I'll read the summary right now. It was over 40 plus global races in 2023 seeing over 90,000 athletes and 50,000 spectators. Welcome to the World Series of Fitness Racing. High Rock is a fitness competition that combines an eight kilometer of running and eight functional workout stations. It is an indoor hybrid fitness racing event that alternates running the functional exercises. It builds itself as the World Series of Fitness Racing and a sport for everybody. So is it like the crossfit games with more running? I think it's the crossfit games but more accessible. And I think here's the cool thing. So I do a combination and you know I mean my knees pre-banded right now so less so right now but I do a combination of running Jitsu and lifting. Probably not do as much Jitsu in the future because I'm getting way too hurt. But I think people like running and part from the you know the health benefits and set and PRs whatever. But it's specifically I think that PR element where when you're running you can say damn I shaded up some time on my splits here. Or I set a new PR for how far I was able to go and there's like this cool trophy case Strava badge you know feeling to it. Lifting you don't get that as much unless you're sending PRs. And to be honest like if you're trying to PR all the time like you'll probably get hurt or things just let you look good. You can lift everybody don't feel that good all the time because you're just like damn things are tight things I just tweak my back whatever. So I think that high rocks is pretty interesting because it gives people back that competitive nature that they want and that people love as a sport. But in a more functional way that has maybe hopefully a lower injury rate and it's growing like crazy. like if you look at even as Google trends on high rock Or you look at all of the gyms that are popping up that are specific gyms for high rock athletes You'll see that it's consistently been picking up for the last three to five years And I think there's a big opportunity to build everything that has already been built for the CrossFit space for the you know Every other sport in the world space specifically for high rocks and have a lot of success Hmm, so high rocks for different sports basically No, I think I think different businesses for high rocks. Okay. Okay. So so let's Let's break it down like T.R. X for example T.R. X is a really T.R. X and Roke are two really big CrossFit brands And I'm sure that both of them can be applied to high rocks as well But like one thing that high rocks does as an example is they're really big on assault bikes and ski or machines I know that again, I've ever done this So if people have more information apologies, but they're really big on those two machines because it's like kind of functional And it's a little bit more cardio based and pushing yourself like can you develop things that make you better at those Machines can you develop a supplement brand as we were talking about before that is the supplement of high rocks You know, can you build a content and new site that is specifically for high rocks? Will you be like I have a buddy who is building a gym right now over in Denver where the average membership for that gym There's at the average amount of people spend every single year that gym is $20,000 and they're marketing themselves as the premier high rocks gym And they do blood work testing and they do recovery and on the recovery. I'm sure is a big one here So I think that there are a lot of opportunities to see how you can make money from this growing sport So piggy piggy back on high rocks in other ways 1,000 percent I like that. I can't believe I've never heard of it I mean that like I've never been involved in CrossFit or any of that like I just like to run and ride my bike all by myself For many miles at a time. That's all I do Yeah, well, I mean this this I don't know if you have a competitive nature I don't know if you're running too much. There's more for yourself. I Think it's worth a shot like I also just like it from the standpoint of you know I've done CrossFit before I think CrossFit school. I Lately, I don't know like I'm about to sound older than I am on this podcast But like the shit just starts hurting and I'm like just torn my meniscus last month I re-herniated a disc three months ago and I'm at this point where I'm like I like having hobbies But I also like walking and so I need to start picking my hobbies a little bit more carefully Yeah, I think I'm built like I'm built like a Cadillac I'm I'm like thick and like I don't get injured ever Knock on wood, but I know that if I run and I cycle like I'm just I'm not fast But I'm just like sturdy. I'm just like a V8 I'm not gonna win any races, but I'm just I'm just sturdy. So it's good It's a good one. Maybe updated photo bio built like a Cadillac I want to hear about your lead gen business idea because I'm doing something in this right now And it is I'm like so excited about it And I just want to copy and paste it in all the all the industries All right, so this is I was hesitant to share this one because like I genuinely want to start this one, but I in the In the spirit of not gatekeeping business ideas and all I'll turn Preface with this is If you hear this idea, you're like that's a good idea. I'm already that just like DM me I'm like let me be a part of it. I'm gonna put a money for it in some way or like I don't know anything I want I think it's such a good idea and we'll 100% work So here's the concept my girlfriend can't burp and There is a large community of individuals who cannot burp. If that was Andrew Wilkinson, right? He just came out yeah He just came out and did this long Twitter thread. It was all about how he couldn't burp But he fixed it and his life has changed So how did he fix it? I don't remember but okay to there I bet I bet it's what I'm about to describe then so if you're in this subreddit subreddit called r/no burp there are 30,000 people and they're close to 30,000 people and The lately the more I go around drinking and this came up two weeks ago, and I'm like drinking out of our New York I'll bring up a Sarah usually drinks wine because the carbonation really upsets her or she'll drink You know twisted teas or some kind of like no carbonated beverage because the carbonation after two or three You're like damn, I feel like I have to burp, but I can't and it's like really bloating and uncomfortable. So Here's something that everyone is starting to find out who experienced this this There is a way to solve this you get Botox in your neck very little like not that's what Andrew Wilkinson did I pulled up the tweet as you were talking So we got Botox in his neck. He didn't say neck, but he said Botox. I believe it's in your neck and this is not medical advice. I don't want to pretend to come off as a doctor I'm not I think that's the solution based on what I've read and based on what I've researched for my girlfriends But it's like you have this feeling your entire life of like the equivalent of like Shogging a beer and a seltzer and then having to hold it in afterwards like like nobody wants that and It is a growing thing is somewhat of a hereditary thing like I know her mom can't we met some people over the fourth of July We brought this up. They're like I haven't been able to do I thought it was just me like I thought it was this crazy person But like my mom can either and so I think it's I think it's a little bit hereditary And I think it's a bigger thing than most people realize and when the when I say Botox like I don't know Maybe I have a somewhat of a stigma of this, but like it's not like get rid of your wrinkles It's like you look physically no different afterwards, but I got again I don't want to pretend like I'm moving medical advice here I think it isn't to do with your lymph nodes or something that allows you to like contract them and effectively get air out of your stomach I think I think that it would be such a killer and easy idea To start a content website called burp again or whatever you want and make so much content about the subject that I don't like it would not be hard to rank to the top of Google For why can't I burp how to burp again, you know like bloating after carbonate event for things like that and then creating lead gen For local areas where you can refer patients out to Botox doctors, which I think you know they do a handful of things plastic surgery and all of that other types of stuff And so like you're selling a very high ticket thing like you'll probably get paid very handsomely for these leads And I think it would crush. I don't think it would be a $10 million of your business I think that if you do it right and put it on autopilot You can probably get this thing up to doing a couple hundred thousand dollars per year in mostly profit Again, this is something that like if I had no companies today, I would do this tomorrow But unfortunately, it's just like not worth the time. So if somebody's listening to this and they're like damn, I like that concept Shoot me a Twitter DM corner grows and I'll pay for the money to set it up You have to do all the work and I'll kind of coach you through it a little bit But I love the idea so much. I love this idea So I did a little research while you were talking first of all burp again.com is open So you could buy this before this podcast goes live Second, I pulled up the Google keyword planner. I looked up Botox, can't burp. I can't burp The competition on all of them is low There are 200,000 average monthly searches for Botox alone only in the US and the competition is low So top of page bed is five bucks, but it's still low competition 22% year every year change So completely sold on this more generally speaking. I'm completely sold on Lee generation sites with programmatic SEO and basically automated AI generated content Plus paid Google ads like kind of like a three tier strategy. So we're trying this I'll tell you off the podcast what the industry is But we're trying this in an industry right now And I've done a ton of research on Google keywords and there's over well over 100 maybe 300 different industries That could well that could go just as well if not better than the industry we chose And we're we're we haven't even launched, but we're just putting out AI generated content that that fits a certain long tail keywords And then we have three different services that we offer in 1,000 different US cities So we've programmatically generated 3,000 landing pages and we're upping that to 5,000 here soon That's just like Service in city state service in city state with with like a lead capture form on everyone And we've only indexed Like 236 of these 5,000 pages so far And every single day it's like more and more and more we're ranking in the top 10 for terms We're getting clicks we're getting leads all of this you're getting leads Yes, like actual leads Purely organized now before I did any of this I tested it with paid Google ads And I was like okay, I like what I this is really good. Let's invest some money into SEO and and it's really working and so we're actually thinking seriously about launching Like a programmatic SEO agency to where we could do this for others, right? Like give me the industry We'll just kind of deliver it tie a bow on it deliver you a package you run the whole business We'll give you some pointers, but you're gonna pay us three to five six seven grand to just get everything set up for you I love it. I think I think the thing that was helpful here is I think you have to create a lot of content around This business model because I think you know affiliate marketers and people who are like deeper in the trenches on the internet Know about this all day. It's not something that is widely talked about right now They do at least in the communities that you and I run and so I think Proving that this can get affected business model Is super important one thing that I missed the mark on and sorry, let me actually before I say where I missed the mark on I think The biggest thing for this whether it is a service or a product because I think people do a lot of the affiliate product stuff right now It has to be high-ticket to make no sense only because it's high-ticket and I remember it was overcrow highly recurring I mean, we're it's really it's the same boy that right sure. Yeah, yeah, hi LTV go to all that lifetime value And I think one thing that I missed the mark on over or COVID is I was like, oh, I just saw my company. I want to get into some kind of affiliate site. And I'm like, I spent a day or two looking at content keywords and I think both my biggest strength and biggest weakness is I have a stupid biased action where like it's great in most day to days when starting new things, it tends to be a hindrance because I'm like, I don't want to spend the time researching and figuring out this is the right thing. Let me just get by the domain, start the website, hire a writer, go to the keyword plan and just go after it. And I did this, it's in the dentistry space. So I said it, I think it was, I don't think I own the domain anymore. I think it was called like superior smile or something like that. And I was like doing lead gen or affiliate sales for water picks, for retainers, for like all that type of stuff. Very, very low ticket items. It wasn't worth the time, wasn't worth the energy. I shut it down like months later. So total waste of time. But where I think I missed the mark is, I used to own a tiny house blog and the tiny house blog never made that much money. I think it made $1,000 or $2,000 in profit every single month, but like nothing crazy. But like, you know, we rock, we rank for, I bet if I even look it up now, we rank for like best appliances for tiny house, best dishwasher for tiny house, best furnace for tiny house. And what I should have done a better job at is, you know, we had all this traffic, we were doing original content to like, I literally hired a writer to script Facebook groups and like do like essentially like, I don't know what they're called, like profile pieces on different people who own tiny houses. We should have done way more lead gen for somebody who wants a tiny house built. You're selling a $20, $20,000 thing, if not arguably more. And like people would pay several hundred dollars for that. And I should have done that. It's just like, it was the lowest priority on my to do. Hence why I never got around to it. - We're buying tiny houses right now for RV parks and you almost can't find them for under 70 grand. - They go up to one of this way off in the prices. - Yeah, exactly. So you know. - I mean, there's always a trade off though. There's a trade between the volume and the ticket price, right? So you gotta find that happy medium. - Yeah, what I like about the service one, like I think services are better. Services are for sure better because especially with like, and also, as I said my idea earlier, like big disclaimer, big asterisk on all of this. I don't know if that's legal. I don't know if you can legally sell leads in the medical space. I think there are laws around legally selling leads to a legal space, like to attorneys and stuff. - There is for legal. I don't know about healthcare. - I have no idea either. It feels like if there is for legal, maybe it should be for healthcare, but that's a whole other thing. - But point being, I like the business model a lot. - I think you nailed it with a high ticket and we are doing that in ours. But like I was looking up kitchen remodeling. No one's bidding on kitchen remodeling. That's like a $30, $40,000 thing. But the other side of the equation that is easy to ignore is you want a buyer of these leads that has a nationwide brand. Or else you're gonna be juggling like hundreds of relationships with these blue collar business owners that are super flaky, you know? - Such a good point. - So if you can find this Venn diagram overlap of like high ticket, high volume, high search volume, low competition and nationwide brands where you can talk to one person and he's like, I've got 362 locations in all these cities. We'll buy everything you send us. That is the gold mine. And I think they do exist, but it's hard to find. And the other, the other asterisk here is what is like, what is Google's AI gonna do to this? - Yeah, 100%. That's also why I think I'm just gonna be a bigger push again to YouTube. Like at the end of the day, you need some level of discoverability. Oh, I'll say at least what we're speaking here today in July 17th, 2024, like I am not super worried about that off the bat, like you Google stuff right now and they show you their AI prompts. And like, I think Google's doing a big disservice to themselves right now in my personal opinion 'cause they're AI suggesting stuff is so bad that it and I don't know if you agree with this, but like, it's quite literally trained to me to automatically skip over it and go to what I'm used to and what I'm familiar with. Now, don't get me wrong over the next 10 years, the younger generations maybe get better and maybe they start looking at it first and they're like, oh, it's better. And then we get made fun of for being the old people who doesn't read the AI prompt because it was bad when we first saw it. Like, totally valid. But I think there's enough of a cash grab window in the short term and I think that there's always going to be people who need to find people and have like discoverability via Google via something. - Yeah, and I think no matter what Google does with the AI, I think the localization is important 'cause like, I was looking up one of these search terms in Clark'sville, Tennessee. And let's just say it was fence repair Clark'sville, Tennessee and there were none, right? And this isn't true, but it was some service in Clark'sville, Tennessee and there were zero locations. Whereas you would think Clark'sville, there's like 100,000 people you would think there would be three, right? And so if I'm Google's AI and I want to show you the best answer and someone searching, fence repair Clark'sville, Tennessee, even that like programmatic website, they're gonna show you because what also they're going to show you? Whereas if you're competing on a worldwide or a nationwide level, they might, like all those little gimmicks and hacks, they might not ever get shown in the new AI, right? They might show you the most relevant thing and only one instead of pages of 10. Another thing that I like about this programmatic idea is I compare it to like roll ups, private equity roll ups. I love roll ups because there's so many industries to roll up and so it's like, there's not a lot of competition in a lot of these, like I heard a podcast about a guy that rolled up music schools only in Denver and sold it for $40 million. All right, like who's thinking of rolling up music schools? They're like, let's do self-storage, let's roll up dentists, like all the obvious stuff, but there's still thousands of industries that will be rolled up and some of them might take two decades just 'cause there's so many and people don't think of it. And so I think of this opportunity at that same way where yeah, the growth hackers and the gray hat guys and the black hat wizard and all those guys have heard about this and they've been doing this for years, but there's still so many random niches and opportunities that they haven't even thought of yet. - Yeah, and also like that's just the nature of it, right? Like there are more popping up every single day if you started a lead gen for people to sign up for their first high rocks race, right? Like new industry brand new thing, like people want that. And so like if you have a great topical authority for how to get fit and like do it in an evergreen niche, you'll always have more opportunities, I think afterwards. And that's also why people always stress the email list stuff and being able to own your audience. Like there are certainly benefits and advantages towards that as well. I was just mentioning the roll up part in general not to derail a conversation, but one thing that I think is pretty cool is I was having conversations with this one guy down in South Florida last Christmas. And he is starting a franchise where all he does is he buys tower-practor shops. I think in terms of like business models and changing, everyone who owns and buys software is very familiar with the reoccurring revenue model and how that can increase multiples and how that's such a good business model. He's buying tire-practor shops. And all he's doing is he's changing the pricing model from, you know, if it's, I don't know if the numbers are so. I'm gonna get this wrong. Let's say it's $120 to visit a tire-practor and you go once a month. He's gonna charge people $200 per month on a reoccurring revenue and you get unlimited cracks. Let's be honest, you know, certain things this works really better, well with others who doesn't AMC launches their movie pass. Like, do you want to go to the movie theaters more than two times a month to make it worth it? Probably not, but on the contrary too, like I know people who buy car washes and they sell an unlimited car wash plan because you're paying $15 for your normal car wash, but what if you pay 25 and every time you drop by, you can get it done? Well, guess what? The cost of water and soap is negligible. And the amount of times that you're actually gonna use it versus it being nice and theory isn't low. And so I like the idea too of taking those businesses that are usually at one off and there's something you do on a reoccurring basis, but like not crazy often and saying, do an unlimited number of times, but you're also gonna be paying a monthly subscription. - That's genius. Like, and he's, of course, he's doing that because it's already proven out. Like it just works, right? It works in Dustin, Florida. It's gonna work in Bellevue, Washington. You can do it with like teeth whitening too. Like unlimited. - Yeah. - I mean, do you, I don't know why there's such a dumb thought on mine. I was like, do you need to get it done more than once, but yeah, I drink enough coffee that I can imagine getting it done more than once would be helpful. What about haircuts? You just got the haircut coming out of the fresh cut? Would you pay something? - I wouldn't, 'cause I'm so cheap, dude. I go like three months between haircuts, just 'cause I get busy and I don't, I don't really care what my hair looks like. I'm married, what do I gotta worry about? - That's a good point. - But that is, I do like that idea though. - I think it would work in New York. I also think it would work well because the type of person that wants a lot of haircuts at the month has shorter hair. And so it's not like it would take super long, especially if you're going frequent enough where it's like, hey, not a whole hell of a lot has happened. In the last week, but like I just wanna get lined up before Friday night out or something like that. - Yeah, I'm wondering like how you could go into like a barber shop and have them test just so you could like be a passive observer and see if it works. And then once it works, it's like, all right, I'm gonna buy a thousand barber shops. (laughing) - Yeah, I bet it would work. Yeah, 100%. - There's gotta be one out there that does that. I would have to think. - I bet there is. We got to see if life's better or worse. That like, it's one guy comes in every single day. He's so annoying, all he wants to do is talk. You know, if you gotta put some rules around it. (laughing) - Your card didn't process this month, bro, sorry. (laughing) - Yeah, I threw it up. - Well, I know you've got a hard stop, but thank you for joining us. Connor where can we find you? Yeah, if you want to check me out, if you want to watch the Botox idea, hit me up Twitter @c_grl. I wrote a newsletter that is this but words, it's bizbizbrainstorms.com, so feel free to check that out as well. And yeah, thanks for having me on the show Chris. Yeah, and if you guys like Connor, which I'm sure you will, let me know in the comments and I want to have him on regularly so we can just riff on ideas. All right, what do you think? How do you like Connor? Reach out to him if you want to start that Botox business. Let me know in the comments if I should have him back on again and we'll do this again. Anyway, please subscribe, like, share with your friends and we'll see you next time.