Speaker 1Hello and welcome to the How Not To Screw Up Your Kids podcast, the deeper dive episodes designed to unpick a thorny topic so you can take away manageable actions which you can implement, whether that's for you, your family, or an educational setting. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Han, psychologist and parenting expert. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. Today's episode is actually coming out on my birthday, my 57th, if you really want to know. And in true Mary Han style, I like to use my birthday to reflect. I mean, generally, it's something that I do. You know me, if you've been listening to the podcast long enough, you know I'm a bit of a reflector. I love that sort of thing. And on my birthday, I typically reflect on life, what I've learned. So, I thought maybe it might be quite nice, a bit personal, but I thought I would share a more personal episode with you on what I've learned from my own parenting, my work with young people and their families, and basically being a woman. When I originally made my notes for this episode, I had top 10 lessons. And then you won't believe the one that I missed, number 11. So, those of you who've listened regularly will almost, when we get there, you'll be like, well, she hasn't mentioned that yet. So, I'm going to share that with you. I'm going to share that with you. I will be sharing my top 10 lessons in the hope that that will bring you some comfort, some hope, and maybe a little bit of a smile. Now, before I get started, I would like to ask you to gift me a birthday present, if I may be so bold and not presumptuous. But if you have listened to this podcast regularly, you will know the format, you will know how it works. And I'd like to think that you are enjoying it and finding, it's helpful. So, if you have not yet rated and reviewed the podcast, I would be so grateful if you could gift me a pause now and just give us a rating out of five and then a small short sentence on how you feel about the podcast, how helpful it's been, any top tips that you found so that others can find the podcast. I cannot emphasize enough that obviously I've got my regular listeners who tune in week in, week out, both on the podcast and on the podcast. So, if you the Monday and the Thursday episodes, but parents who are looking for help and support along a whole host of subject areas when it comes to parenting only get nudged in terms of how not to screw up your kids, basically based on reviews and ratings. So, it makes a huge impact in building that community and that collective and sharing the love with other parents who may also be struggling. And if you have not yet done so, by following the podcast, you are not going to be spammed with all sorts of rubbish. All that following the podcast means is that when a new episode comes out, it goes into your podcast library under how not to screw up your kids. And you then can go in and you can see what the latest episodes are and you simply listen to the ones that you think would be helpful for you. So, if you've not yet done that, then maybe consider following the podcast too, because it's all about spreading the love. So, back to the questions. So, what lessons have I learned through my own parenting journey? What have I learned in terms of the work that I've done with young people and just being me and a woman? So, in no particular order, here goes my top 11. So, the first one that I've written down, remember this is brainstorming, I have not done it in any particular order, is that your relationship with your child continues significantly beyond the time that they are under 18 or under our influence of what we ask them to do and don't ask them to do while they're living at home. And I genuinely believe the success to having a good relationship with our adult children. Just think about it. Whatever age you came to parenting, you are going to have a longer relationship with your child as an adult than you are going to have with them as a child. And I remember hearing this, it was probably a bit late for me by the time I heard this, my children were very close to adulthood. And it really struck a chord with me because I thought we spend so much of our time as parents sort of ruminating and stressing and being riddled with anxiety, shame, embarrassment, all of the things that we find about making the right decision for our children and tackling those day-to-day situations that we find ourselves in. And those are genuine things that we go through that I think we often forget that we're not beginning to actually, with every decision we make, with every discussion that we have, we're beginning, we're laying the foundations to the relationship we're going to have with our children when they become adults. And so if you're listening to this and you want to sort of take some of the wisdom, so to speak, of what I've learned, is that actually the time that I spent really trying to listen and understand and connect with my children was never wasted. And it's not that I think that any of you will be listening to this thinking that it is a bit of a waste, but actually it was a really good investment in my time because what that has meant is, and my children are, as the recording of this particular episode going out, are 26 and nearly 23. And I think it's probably one of the best things that I have done in terms of really trying to just spend time. Now, what I will say to you, because I'm going to be, I'm being brutally honest here, is obviously, because I've got a 26-year-old and a nearly 23-year-old, I'm going to I navigated parenthood in a very different background and context around digital than a lot of you are parenting now. You know, whilst mobile phone and were out and, you know, they were there, smartphones were not the sort of proliferation and everywhere that they are today. So I do accept that I would have navigated parenthood and therefore that time invested in play and connection in discussion would have been easier, let's face it, because the pressures from what other children were doing and in other families around smartphones and devices would just simply have not been there. They were there. Phones were around. My children did end up with smartphones as they got older, but I wasn't navigating that landscape maybe when they were younger. So I will accept that. But what I will say is that this connection time and this listening and really trying to understand what things are showing up for them, how are they navigating life and the challenges that they face, for me, were very much around the meal time and around the table. And so I felt that that, you know, when I think about all of the non-negotiables that I had when the children were younger, and obviously non-negotiables were around bedtime, were around devices not being in eating together. And that, you know, that meal times were sacrosanct and were around a table. And we did most of them together. We didn't always do it as a family. Their father, you know, often worked later and then came back later. But in essence, my children always ate with an adult while they were growing up. And I believe that that has been fundamentally the foundations of the relationship that I have with them because we had discussions, because we had conversations, because, you know, I tried to understand things from their perspective and I encouraged them to do the same. And we didn't always agree and we had incredibly heated conversations, but it was one where we always had that connection. So I think that's what I would, the biggest lesson that I've learned is this relationship with adult children is significantly longer than it is with them when they are younger and very much in that sort of different power dynamic of I'm the adult, you're the child. And the time that was spent in whichever form that was, and for us, it was really that meal time was a big one, has paid dividends above and beyond because I have wanted that continued relationship with my children as adults. And I feel very fortunate enough that I have that. So that's number one. And that feeds directly, feed is a pun, you will hear in a minute, into number two. And my number two that I've learned is a roast. Goes a long way. So because meal times were a big thing, and I suspect probably that there was a certain element of that culturally. And for those of you who've listened and been in my world for a long time, you will know that I'm Egyptian. I moved to England when I was five. And my parents are both Egyptian, my brothers and sisters, we were, you know, we grew up in Egypt and have all of our family there. And so the culture that I grew up in was meal times were a big thing. Food is a big thing. In the culture that I grew up in, and it was a real expression of love, togetherness, connection, and that eating around a table, often with extended family, like massive meal times sitting around a table for a really, really long time. So I grew up with that. And of course, you bring your background quite often into your own parenting. And because of that, it's the one thing that I can guarantee, whereas my children are adults, and I suspect probably well into their 30s, I can guarantee that I can guarantee that my children are adults. And I 30s and 40s, let's hope. is that if I send a message in the family WhatsApp group to say, I'm going to cook a roast on this particular Sunday, anyone want to join me? Anyone want to join us? That we get a resounding, more often than not, every single one will come back home. And that's extended now into our blended family. So for us, the roast was always, the mealtime was always went a really long way and has continued to be that thing that we can use for connection. Now, for your family, it could be really different. It could be that there's a, you know, maybe skiing or an activity like that is something that brings everyone together. Maybe it's a theatre, maybe it's the cinema, whatever. Maybe it's a game. Don't underestimate how the things that connect and bring you together now as a family will be the things that can bring and connect you together long after your children will have left home. And will be, those are part of, I guess, the traditions and we typically think about them as, you know, our children come back home or we have done that or continue to do that maybe at the moment with our younger children of going back to families at particular festive periods. But I think that there will, you will find, and maybe you haven't got there yet, depending on how old your children and how long you've been doing this whole parenting gig. But there will be something that for your family will always keep pulling you back together. And for our family, it's food. It's always been the one that has pulled us together and the roast in particular. And having made so many roasts in my life, it's probably the easiest thing for me to do to bring them together. So that's probably been the second biggest lesson that I've learned in terms of that. The third one here is, I guess, a probably not more serious, but speaks specifically to how we parent. And I've found that the focusing in on values, when we're raising our children, as to why we're asking them to do things in a particular way, why we're saying no to things, why we're having discussions about things, why we're pulling them up on things, is our focus on values pays off when it comes to raising adults, I believe, who are compassionate. Because if we root everything back in terms of our family values, what really matters to our family, whether that's curiosity, kindness, respect, compassion, empathy, giving back, kindness, all of these things so underpin the way that our children interact with the world. And from my perspective, when I reflect on, well, not when I look at my adult children now, I can see so much of those values coming through. Now, that doesn't mean, that they always came through. Because I'm sure a lot of you find this, you know, maybe you've got a real value of respect and kindness, and yet your children are basically want to kill each other or arguing all of the time. And none of that is coming through. What I would say to you, though, is are you getting glowing reports back from school about how great they are with their contemporaries? Are you getting incredible reports back when they've had a play date and have been at someone else's house? And my, I suspect, that that probably is the case. And that's because all of the things that we talk about, when we root it back in values, why is it that I'm asking you to make your bed? Why is it that I'm asking you to contribute within the house by putting away, laying the table or putting things in the dishwasher or helping unpack? Why is it that we're having conversations around how you speak to your siblings? All of those things, when they hinge back to values, then our children can make the connection between why we're putting things in the dishwasher and why we're pulling them up on behaviours, why we're congratulating them on particular behaviours, because it's all hinges around this value system that we have, which they then take with them. And as I say, they might not always demonstrate it. It may look as if it's going in one ear and out the other. But if you are getting reports back from school saying how incredible your child is, which for probably most of you, that's exactly what's happening. And when they have been to other people's houses, then you know that that isn't going to happen. It's going in one ear and out the other. Just in that safe space, which is your family home, is that sometimes that those values don't necessarily always show through. But when we parent through values, I believe we end up raising really compassionate adults rather than raising children through results or raising children through expectations around success. Because the values then drive the behaviour that will ultimately lead to success. Ultimately make them more successful because whilst we're all grappling with this notion of AI and what that means for jobs and what that means for us as human beings, there's always going to be the way that human to human interaction and that compassion and that empathy that will always be in demand. So that would be my third one. My fourth one is probably, I think this comes much more from my work with young people, but also as a parent. And it's the statement, that I say to myself regularly, and it's the statement that I often share with families that I'm working with, and it's this too shall pass. Even if it feels like it never will, and either your child or teen could not be in a lower place or be more challenging with their behaviour, it is temporary. And I say this not to diminish it, not to undermine it, but to bring, every one of you who's listening to this, who may well be working through challenges with their child, maybe that's a challenge with their behaviour, their mental health, their emotional wellbeing. It's to give you hope. I have worked with children and teens in the darkest, truly the darkest of places where families have felt that there is absolutely no way out of this, that it could not be any more bleak. Truly. I'm saying that without giving specifics, but I have been there hand-holding with families, and when all hope seems totally lost, when there appears to be absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel, and no hope in sight, and I say this too shall pass because I am in a very fortunate position that so many of the families that I have worked with over the years do stay in touch. And I hear how well these young people are doing. Having come from the darkest of places, from anything from school refusal all the way up to sort of suicidal ideation, I've seen that and I know that, and I say this to you to give you that hope, to give you that absolute unwavering faith that whilst you are supremely deep in the trenches now, know that this too shall pass. Now, of course, I'm, under no illusion that there are, for some families, it doesn't pass, but that is a very small minority. And so if you are in a situation with your child right now and it feels super dark, whether that's their emotional wellbeing, their mental health, or just simply you're ensconced in some really challenging behaviour, whether that's your child's or even their co-parent, it does pass. But what I found is the most helpful thing to, obviously to remember that this too shall, this too shall pass, but to surround yourself with people who you can lean on in those moments, even if it is simply just to have someone listen to you as you sob, or to have someone listen to you as you rant, or someone to pick up a child, someone to pick up some food, someone to help tidy up, whatever that might be, this too shall pass. And that goes beyond just simply when your children are going through that childhood. This too shall pass for your children, as they look for jobs, as they have all sorts of challenges and other things. It really makes a big difference. So that would be my number four. Number five, and this is probably more personal rather than through work, is that I care so much less now than I ever did about others, what others might think of me. Now, I'm sure that there's a certain part of that that is down to age. And probably with that age comes with a realisation that you don't know what you're doing. That you just simply don't have enough time to be there for everybody and please everybody. Now, don't get me wrong. I still have some very deep-rooted people-pleasing tendencies. But actually, I have really found, as I have got older, I just simply worry less. And that also includes worrying less about the decisions that I might make in my parenting. Because whilst I've got adult children, I'm still a parent. It doesn't stop. It doesn't stop when I have conversations with them and I say things. I'm kinder to myself when I reflect because I am a reflector. It's a really big part of what I do and probably why I've ended up doing what I do. So when I reflect afterwards and think, oh, I really shouldn't have said that. I was telling them what to do and I really should have been much more sort of like, what do you think? I just don't beat myself up about it. Sometimes I'll instantly ring back and apologise or send a message. Sometimes I'll just let it ride and it's just, It's just one of those things. And. in lots of ways. And I think I'd love to say to you that I would, you know, I wish when I was younger that I also worried less about it and that I wasn't quite so concerned. And I think that's a really difficult thing to say, because when we look at people who were where we might want to be, and that's not in an egotistical perspective, but I'm thinking maybe you're listening to this and you're thinking, God, I really wish Mary Hannah didn't worry so much. I didn't care what the other parents thought. I didn't worry that I was messing my child up because I really am passionate about my career, or I'm not worried that, you know, I don't have this picture perfect relationship with my child or that I bake and make everything from scratch. Whatever it is that we worry about, wherever we see somebody think, and we think, God, we'd really love to be in that space. And then that person, aka me, says to you, it's really great to not care. You shouldn't care so much. It's very easy for me to say that in my position because I'm 57 and I'm out the other side in lots of ways of the day-to-day challenges. Both my children are employed. Both of them live independently. So of course, it's really easy for me to say, but what I would sort of, and, you know, it's the same in lots of ways when people tell you, don't they, when they've got loads of money, that money doesn't buy you happiness. And yet you're sitting there sort of like cobbling together the pennies. And it's like, well, it's very easy for you to say, but my life would definitely be much easier if I had a bit more. But I think all I would say to you is that I have found certainly with age that I have worried less. And as I've become more confident in knowing that there really isn't an ideal solution, that there really is no perfect parenting, that we're making decisions every single day like that. In the moment, we can repair when we reflect and we realise that actually that we might have been a bit overzealous with the consequence to a particular behaviour, or that we've maybe been, you know, shouted or responded or shown up for our children in a way that we hadn't intended to. But there is no right way, because, you know, and it will be one of my points, but fundamentally, our children are a product of their biology and their environment. It's not that one takes over the other. It's a combination of the two. And it's going back to that sort of what's within your circle of control. And so, yeah, number five, I care so much less now than I ever did. Yes. Comparison is still there. But it happens, I think, with a bit of a soft lens. So I think I'm probably more balanced in my opinions. I might see someone who I feel is much more successful than me, and rather than spiral, and that might be more successful when I think about it, probably for me professionally. So what I would then typically do is that I would then focus on my unique circumstances. But I also do that from the perspective of parenting. In lots of ways, I've values-driven parenting, in my view, is the way to raise compassionate adults. And actually, I would say probably from the get-go, and again, maybe that's a cultural thing. Maybe that was probably because it was drummed into me, certainly by my mum, was this idea of that just being a kind, modest person was so much more important and valued in my upbringing. And therefore, I think in lots of ways with my children is that, of course, it would have been fabulous if my children were academically excelled in lots of different ways and were super successful in their academic results and top universities and really uber careers. But it genuinely was never on my radar. And maybe I'm lying to myself. I don't think I am, because I've reflected on this so many times. It wasn't important. So when I look at my children and make that comparison, and you will do that as a parent often. And don't get me wrong, I did spiral at the school gates when X child was doing Z, Y, A, B, C, different activities and speaking multiple languages and doing multiple instruments and all the rest of it. And was then, oh my goodness me, am I disadvantaging the children because they're not doing these things. But because of that values drive, and because of that tempering, the comparison with really focusing in on the uniqueness of our family circumstances, but also the uniqueness of what made my children who they are. I really look at them now as adults and I feel like so super, super proud. Are they in high flying jobs earning loads and loads of money? Absolutely not. Are they kind, compassionate, empathetic people? 100%. Do I have a good relationship with them? Pretty much. Those matter more to me, that goes back to that value. And I think it's that underpinning. So for those of you that are stuck in that, and we all go through it, it's not like I didn't, I 100% would have gone through it. Because when our children go through school, when our children are toddlers, when our children are first weaning, when they're newborns, every inch of how we measure ourselves as parents, how successful it is, whether we're getting it right or whether we're getting it wrong is benchmarked on the comparison to either our friends from our antenatal class when they're, when they're tiny, or preschool or early stages at school or exam results. Of course, that that's exactly how, you know, we're pulled into that. And it's exactly the same for our young people. That's the only benchmark that they have to compare themselves is how they're doing in those on those metrics. But where we can really focus on our unique circumstances, on our children's uniqueness, their strengths, what makes them who they are, in those moments where we might end up spiraling, or our child might end up spiraling, we then kind of create this culture of celebrating more than we beat ourselves up with that comparison. So that number six is one of the ones that I've learned. Number seven speaks to what I've pretty much been talking about quite a lot. And I think that's one of the things that I've learned is that we never do things in our best interests, in any shape or form, we post justify everything that we do. And the earlier, I guess that we accept that we're complicated, and we're unpredictable, and we don't always do what's in our best interests, helps us stop that kind of like, why are they doing this or blaming ourselves or being frustrated with ourselves? When we do things, we repeat bad habits, or we procrastinate, or we make the say, our children make the same decision. Over and over again, it's part of who we are. Obviously, there are things that we can do to try and help that. But I think when we when we approach it, in that compassionate and understanding that we're complicated, and we're unpredictable, makes it a little bit easier to manage. Number eight, that I and this is probably something that I've learned, but I also think it's quite an important one for our children to learn is that not all friendships last. If you think about your friendships as an adult, and it will be different for different people. Some people have got like their best friends as adults and as parents, maybe through university, or school years or through work, or even what happens is their best friends become people that they've met through their parenting journey, is that, you know, friendships have different reasons and different seasons. And I think if we can accept that, and particularly, I think when as an adult, we've got friendships that are no longer serving us, but we feel obligated, to continue, particularly when we're very limited and restricted in time. But what that also does is, for our children, it's helping them equally learn that not all friendships last. And that doesn't mean that they give up on friendships whenever there's a bit of a challenge. But it is important that they also understand and remember that, you know, their best best friend now may not always be their best friend. And so when there are beginnings to be frictions with that particular friend, and maybe a new friend has come in, or maybe a new friend has come in, or maybe a new friend has come on the scene, and it feels like they are a three and they're being taken away, is it may well be that that's that that friendship has served its cycle, and supporting our children and talking about friendships, having cycles and not always being the same, can be really helpful for them. As we also go through the same thing with our own friendships, that would be number eight. Number nine, don't take yourself too seriously. I've always been quite serious. I joke about things, I've often taken myself far too seriously, that decisions are pivotal, and life changing. And I think sometimes when we have a we take a little bit more of a light hearted approach, and don't take ourselves too seriously, that that can be really helpful, because we can then tap into that childlike playful side of ourselves, which is, we as adults, we don't play, do we? When we have children, we begin to play more, because that's part of what we do with our children, we ham up the story, we put on really exaggerated accents, we talk in different voices. And when we're playing a game, we get really engaged, we get smaller, we get lower to the floor, we do all sorts of things. And I think that that's a really helpful way of lightening that burden that we so often have as parents and as adults. And it's big, it's not doesn't mean that we want to try to trivialize it. But I think having moments of play allows us to get, to get more perspective. And so I think I've learned certainly not to take myself quite so seriously and to just enjoy. That would be my number nine. And number 10, it's perfectly acceptable to change your mind. Yeah, it goes back to that humans are complicated, unpredictable, don't always make rational decisions. We change, we evolve, sometimes we regress rather than evolve. But that's okay. It's perfectly acceptable to do that. It's perfectly acceptable to do that as a parent. Saying to your children, do you know what? I've changed my mind. I think culturally and societally, it's a really big no, no, it's all of this. When I think about it, certainly I'm not going to get into politics, by the way, but I'm just using politics as an analogy, is that we often hear this sort of flip-flop politics or you said in your manifesto, you were going to do this and now you're doing that. Sometimes data information means that we take a different tack. And that's exactly the same when it comes to parenting. You may have chosen to go down a particular route and it's perfectly okay to say, do you know what? I don't think this is working for us. And we're going to change. We're going to change the tack and communicate that to the children. And that's perfectly an acceptable and normal thing to do. So number 10 is it's perfectly acceptable to change your mind. And number 11, drum roll. No, not really, but I added this one. So again, if you've been listening to the podcast a lot, you will know, you may well have already heard this one. Oh, Mary-Anne hasn't said her usual. So here it is. Number 11, taking care of yourself is not a luxury. It is a necessity. Your child cannot be what they cannot see. And you can't show up and model to them what you want them to see. If you are always running on empty, if you are always racing around and that you're the last person, ever gets a look in on anything is you. So this isn't about self-care. This is simply making sure that you are regularly emptying your bucket and that you are able to discharge all of that stuff that loads up. And sometimes that means accepting that not all of the things that you think you should do are things that are possible. Yep. So that would be my closing. Number 11. I hope you found that helpful. And I'd like to say that I'm very, very wise, but I think it's more a case of just because I reflect regularly that these were things that I thought would might be helpful. And if one thing resonates for you and makes your life or makes the way that you treat yourself and that you talk to yourself that little bit more kindly, then I am delighted that you have joined me. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. And as always, if you have not yet done so, then I would be so grateful as a little birthday gift to me if you could rate and review the podcast and also follow it so that the latest episodes always appear in your library because it helps us spread the love. So until next time. you
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