What Grace Looks Like in Real Life

are actually to then extend that grace to other people even when it's hard or especially maybe especially when it's hard. Hello there you're listening to the Girl Talk podcast my name is Carol. I'm Kelly. I'm Tricia. And we're so glad you've joined us today. We're going to be discussing grace. Now I know that that can be a controversial topic. We have just read an amazing book about grace and we did so as a team and so that's on all of our minds. So how far does grace go? Let's talk about what we mean by grace. Let's define that for somebody who hasn't maybe been around church very much. Let's kind of define what we mean by the term the word grace. How would you define it? That's an excellent that is an excellent question. I wish I had thought about that ahead of time. I thought it was something really profound. Isn't it God's unmerited favor? Yes. That's amazing. Great definition. There's an acronym God's riches at Christ's expense. Yeah. Okay. You know spells out grace and so yes it's it's the favor of God. Yes. Getting what we never deserved. Right. Yeah. It's forgiveness. Yeah. It's different from mercy. Mercy is not getting what we deserve. Right. Which if you're new to Christian circles I know that can be confusing. You're like wait a all the bad things all the wrong things that you had done we are saved from that because of what jesus did on the cross that's mercy grace is god's favor on us even though we don't deserve it right yeah right i think our pastor said um you can think about it like a bank account you didn't earn any of it but because of jesus you have access to all of jesus's bank account yeah kind of like that yeah and uh and you don't have to have any of the withdrawals that mercy requires so yeah thinking about it like that you didn't earn it you didn't deserve it but there it is yeah i think there's two there's two different kinds of grace too there's the like common grace which is kind of grace for everybody right you know we get things like um beautiful gifts from god like flowers and uh sunrises sunrises and sunsets and food yeah we don't have to eat manna we can eat sushi sushi is god's favor nachos anyway so then you know things like general protection you know protection of um from evil in general and then there's the grace that's just for us yeah specific grace just for me um that god lavishes gifts upon me because of his love and generosity towards me yeah so um let's talk about this for a minute because i know this term comes up in in christian circles some the idea of abusing god's grace is that why you said it was controversial well yeah yeah in a lot of ways i think grace can it's a great thing but i think you can also um cheapen grace if you continue to do the things that god has commanded us not to you know i mean i think of like the bible sets out guardrails for us uh and god says live this way he's not doing that to keep things from us because he wants to protect us and those kind of guardrails keep us um where we need to go um but i think there are definitely situations i've been guilty of it too you know living in willful sin yes is abusing god's grace right yeah yeah yeah i've i can vividly remember a time in my life where i almost even like said that out loud and i'm like oh yeah i can keep doing this yeah because god's gonna forgive me i'm with his daughter right he's gonna forgive me he's gonna forgive me and i didn't know the damage i was doing to myself to my relationship with god yeah um just building those walls um yeah it's it can you can definitely go down the slippery slope of abusing god's grace and i think one of the things that we try to do is put a um a measure on it so if i just do it one or two times that's not abusing god's grace you know maybe at once i get to the 15th time or whatever that i've done that because that's the only way we know how to make we can't measure god's grace so we try to understand it it's beyond our understanding um so i think but i think when you live kind of like with a signed permission slip if you can do whatever you want that's not really the grace of god right yes that is you still being lord of your life right yes so if you live from that place i think that's a totally different conversation because here's the thing if you are saying to yourself well a i can do this because jesus loves me this i know for the bible tells me so that that is correct but he doesn't let us live in willful sin without consequences and um the consequence is broken relationship with him right right so and i actually see it as like double a double sin because it's not only are you sinning in the thing that you're doing you're also sinning because you're in willful disobedience to what god has told you to do and flaunting it in his face so let's make it a triple sin yeah you know you're just like totally defiant and being like well whatever you can get over it god that's interesting i think that's truly like a motive or a mindset problem sin because when when you're talking earlier about a behavior that you continue to do um even though you know it's wrong my mind went to like an addictive behavior and addiction is not just alcohol or drugs but even an addictive controlling behavior an addictive fear behavior something where you are addicted to it and you keep doing it we're not talking i don't i don't think we're talking about that as abusing grace i think when you are trying to lean on god to help you break these chains and you might fall 17 times but you're not doing it without understanding that you're um that you're in chains yeah it's different yeah and i think that the the very thing that you talk about comes with a load of shame and guilt that we feel afterwards i know in times in my life where i've been living in willful sin i didn't feel guilty at all right yeah i enjoyed it you know and i was like yeah we're gonna live this up and do it as long as i can right yeah you know but there comes a time when you will reap the benefits and i think the two the the the hard thing about grace is when you become a believer is that we still try to this day we still try to think okay if if god is going to extend grace to me i just have to do enough good things to outweigh the bad things and i'll be okay that's not grace right right it's not anything we deserve right we didn't earn any no earning and and i think that's where a lot of people get tripped up because we we we get it we get out in the community we talk to a lot of people and and i had this conversation with a lady just last week and she said you know i'm just hoping i'll be good enough and i'm like here's the thing none of us are we can't be we can't be the standard is so far above what we're even capable of and and grace is that we don't have to be we can be released from that because god has already done it through jesus on the cross but i think we still live in that mindset of yeah if we just do enough good stuff if we're just you know if we kind of our neighbor and we feed the people in prison and we do our if we check all the boxes then we're gonna we're gonna earn god's favor somehow and it just grace is not one of those things you earn it's given to you it's so hard to understand this concept i love talking about it but it's so hard to live it out because we live in a a culture that celebrates achievement and you work hard for what you get and you you you deserve what you get and that that whole mindset it is so hard to understand that we are simply loved enough that we don't have to do anything about it to earn it like i have a hard time with that yeah i i was praying about that the other day and you know god put on my heart i know it's so silly but god put on my heart my little dog my little dog my little dog noelle she i love her so much and she doesn't have to do anything to earn that in fact she drives me crazy half the time because i gotta feed her and take her out and walk her and all the things but i love her so much she doesn't have to do anything to earn my love she just lays there and puts her little paws up and wants a belly rub and i that's not like a perfect analogy but it helped me understand that that we don't have to earn it we sometimes we're the love is so profound that it doesn't have to be earned but that's hard to understand so that's why i grab a hold of little examples like that so i can understand these big concepts in small ways yeah and i think it so i i i don't think it's that hard to understand but i think it's hard to live live because we you said it our culture lives in a if you do this you're gonna get this yeah um if you you know do a you're gonna get b there's going to be a reward for your actions or a consequence for your actions we live in a society that doesn't that's why jesus is so different from everything that that the world offers right yeah and i think we forget that as believers sometimes we forget like there is nothing i can do that that's make gonna make god love me more there is nothing i can do that's gonna make god love me less like like when you stand in that place and you're just like think about that for a minute If your mind's not absolutely blown, you aren't thinking about it hard enough. It just really is mind-blowing, and it's so different than anything else. Well, and it's not the way we can love other people. So even, for instance, with your situation with Noelle, with your dog, Tricia, that there might come a time where you can love Noelle a lot less. Yeah, I mean, she throws up on the bed, as an example. It happens. It happens. You can love her a lot less than you do. I'm getting angry. Yes, and so I also feel like we as humans don't have the same capacity for grace that God has. Supernatural grace. Yes, and so we really don't. We might think we understand God's grace, but we just really don't because we don't have the capacity that God has to have grace like that, to give grace like that, to understand why we're worthy of God's grace. You know, that it is, we're not Him. He's different than us. Even though we're made in His image, we're still different. And so understanding that concept is both simple and incredibly complex. Because I'll never love any body, any animal, anything the way God loves me, with the level of grace. I'll never be able to. And so I think at our core, we still can't understand it. Because there's still times where our dog will throw up on our bed, and we love her less. But I think, yes, but I feel like God gave me that image just in that moment because I was struggling to understand it. And sometimes He'll give us little, I think, little truths, little concepts, little examples. It's not a perfect analogy. It's definitely not. But just understanding that the love is there. Whatever she does, the love is still there. And that just helped me. But it's not a perfect analogy. And we can't truly understand or replicate God's grace. And it affects everything. Yeah, and I think the closest we can come is to when you have kids. Yeah. Yes. Because I don't know how to explain this other than to say that everything changes once you bring that baby home. The shows you used to watch anymore, you don't watch anymore. Because you don't want your kid watching that, right? You're always thinking about your kid. Yeah. They don't. I didn't understand that as a kid when my parents were bringing me up. Like, I thought they were the last thing on my mind. I was like, how can I get away with the next thing? You know what I mean? All those things. Because I'm only thinking about me. That's right. As a kid, that's all I'm doing. That's true. Yes. And I think that's the closest we can get. But even that does not even come close. Yeah. But it does give us a. But kids are close and dogs are close. Yeah. It's close. It's the best way we can understand that. Okay. So if we can't completely understand it. But we can trust in it, which that's a whole other podcast about the difference between trusting in something and understanding it. We can't understand God's grace. We just have to accept that it is a free gift that we get from God. So how do we extend that grace to other people? How should that change the way we live between the Sundays? You know, Jesus told a story in the parable in the Bible about the man who was freed of his debt, millions of dollars in debt, and a debt he could never, ever, ever repay and was freed of that. And then he walked away immediately and saw somebody who owed him like, you know, a buck 50 and said, I'm going to put you in jail if you don't give me that buck 50. And he did. He got him arrested because he, you know, he was thinking about himself. And it's such a good parable to remind us that our debt is. We can't pay it. We could never pay it. And so we're actually, Jesus has given us this example to remind us that we're not to be like that. You know, we are actually to then extend that grace to other people, even when it's hard or especially, maybe especially when it's hard, that we're supposed to be able to do that. But it starts with understanding the magnitude of what we, of the grace we've been given. Yeah. That that's the only way to really change our own perspective on the grace that we need to give somebody else is to understand first the grace that we've been given. The grace that we've been given by Jesus. I've never really thought about it exactly like this, but based on this conversation, I'm thinking about this parallel, at least in my mind, of grace with safety. When we know that we're safe in God's grace, meaning perfectly loved, perfectly cared for, that future is secure. When we're safe, then we can safely love others. And give them love without needing anything in return because we are safe in God's grace. In the book that you had mentioned earlier, there was a line that said, grace celebrates. Grace throws a lavish party for someone else. And you can throw a lavish party and celebrate someone else when you feel safe in God's grace. And I think part of understanding grace is understanding the safety that comes with God's love. Now, that doesn't mean you'll never have problems, or you're never going to have a dangerous situation, or you're never going to go through a tragedy. It's a safety in knowing that you're loved even if you go through those things. And it's the understanding of that safety that then allows me to not have to worry about myself, but to be able to celebrate you or celebrate you, celebrate what you're doing without having it be scary for me. Or threatening. Or threatening. Threatening is a better word. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. We find it, or I won't say we, I find it harder to extend grace to those people who have hurt me deeply. So I want us to talk about that because I know that relationships are hard. Every relationships come, all relationships come with a fair amount of difficulty in order to grow. And in order to develop. And a lot of times when you've been hurt deeply, your first response is to withdraw and protect, just like you said. And that's a very normal human response. And so I want us to talk to somebody who maybe is walking through that right now and like, how do I extend grace to others with that safety in mind? Because what you need to understand is, extending grace to them is different than putting yourself in a harmful situation again. Right? Correct. And I think a lot of times we always jump to, if you're going to extend grace, you have to reconcile and have the same relationship that you did before the incident happened. And that's just not possible because we're human beings and we live in a fallen world and we have no ability. We have no ability to forget things that hurt us deeply. Right. And that's just not going to happen. That's just not how our mind works. However, there are moments of grace that you can extend. And I'm thinking specifically of a book I read from Lisa Turkhurst called Forgiving What You Can't Forget. Such a great book. If you're struggling with forgiveness, get that book because she goes through one particular part of her journey and she writes down an individual that had hurt her deeply, everything that they did on a three by five card. And she spread them all over the floor and they were all laid out, all the things that she could remember that had hurt her in this relationship. And she said her counselor then held out to her a red piece of felt. And he said, I want you to go to every one. I want you to lay that piece of felt on top of that card and say, and for whatever my feelings will not yet allow, the grace of God surely covers it. And that has been such a powerful image in my mind. So grace doesn't mean I'm saying what you did was okay. It means I'm refusing to be controlled by those emotions anymore. Right. And I think that's important to mention because I spent a long time in my life thinking because I had been given grace, I had to engage that person in the same way and just act like it didn't hurt. And that is a recipe for disaster in relationships, right? You have to be wise in going back to those places and saying, okay, this is a health, healthy boundary, and I can still extend grace, but grace doesn't mean reconciliation. Grace doesn't mean going back to the original state of this relationship. It can get stronger, but you can't go backwards. And I think grace too also means choosing not to pick up an old memory and put it back on your shoulders. You know, I've got some of that kind of stuff in my past and was reminded of that very thing not too long ago of a memory in my past that I wanted to pick up and go. Okay, I'm going to choose to be angry about this again. And the Lord said to me, what do you want? Do you want to feel angry or do you want to be healthy around this particular emotion? If you want to really continue to live in freedom from that emotion, you need to lay that sucker right back down where you found it. Leave it there. Leave that memory right where it is. You've already dealt with that. We're not going back there. How do you do that? I'm curious. How do you lay something down? Like, what does that? live like? For me, it was choosing to remind myself of the healthy journey I had been on to get over the thing and to go, okay, I, yes, God, you're right. I have already done the hard work of dealing with the emotions of this thing. And I'm going to go back to that, the end of that journey. I'm not going to pick this back up and get angry about it again. I'm going to, I really am going to let, I'm going to lay it down. And yes, you're right. I don't want, I don't want to feel that way. I remember, I remember how I felt and I remember the anger and I can feel it in every cell of my body. And I don't want to feel that way again. And so I'm just, I'm going to put it back down. And so that, that's it. A choice. It is a choice. It has to be a choice to go, okay, I have given the grace and I'm going to, um, continue daily to give grace because it does, those memories are going to come back up all the, all the time. They're going to come back up. Yeah. And every time it comes up, we have to go through that process again of going, okay, God, help me lay this back down. Help me lay it down and not pick it back up. Amen. That's so good. Yeah. Uh, with regard to grace, as it relates to forgiveness, I think I heard our pastor say that that kind of grace, that kind of forgiveness grace is a one person thing. Reconciliation is a two person thing. And that is in a healthy situation when there is, um, work that's been done, but with regard to grace in terms of forgiveness, it's a, it's a one person thing. It's a you thing. You do it, you do it. They don't make, they may or may not be aware of it. Um, but I appreciated that, that perspective. And, uh, I was reading, um, the Bible verse, you know, Jesus says, my grace is sufficient for you. And we have to remind ourselves of that sufficient is it's taken care of. And so when we need extra grace for someone else, our pastors calls them, uh, EGR people, extra grace required. I've been one. Just repeating that promise that his grace is sufficient to get us through that, that. And I think what makes this so tricky is that relationships are so important and we are hardwired for relationships. The father, the son, and the Holy spirit are relationship. It's relationship and we are hardwired for that. So then we're always going to be bumping up against other people. And so we need that, uh, encouragement to keep those relationships healthy. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the other things we need to remember scripture reminds us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. And we've all hurt people. I've hurt people and I don't want people to go back to those worst moments of my life and hold that against me forever and ever and ever. I don't want people to pick that up and carry it on their shoulders after they've let it, after they've already given me the grace for it. I don't want to be in that position. And so I don't really want to put other people in that position either to, for me constantly to have to go back to those emotions of the time when they were at their worst. Yeah. Very good. I want to end this episode a little bit differently than we normally do. I'm going to ask a question and I want you to think about it and not, and I don't want us to necessarily answer it, but I want to, to ask this question because I think it's important. I think this is, can be a turning point for all of us. The question is this, what could change in my life or in my relationships if I could finally accept God's grace? What could change in my life or in my relationships if I could finally accept God's grace? I think in that question, you will find the piece that you've been looking for. Like you can give yourself the answer and it's as simple as accepting God's grace. I want to throw this out here before we get through to today, because you may be listening to this and you're like, this is all so foreign to me. I have no idea. It's like, you're speaking another language. Maybe you've never trusted Jesus and, and allowed that grace on your life. And you want to do that today. I'll tell you a hundred percent. That's why Girl Talk exists because we want to see you come to God's grace. And we want to see you come to God's grace. And we want to see you come to know Christ and grow in your relationship with him. And so you can do something real simple right now. Just pull out your phone. If you're listening on your phone, you can do it after you finish up. You can text the word Jesus, just the word Jesus, no punctuation, no, don't sign off on it or anything. Just the word Jesus to 81891. When you text it to that number, I'm going to send you a resource that will walk you through how you can start your journey with Jesus today. And that's why we do this. So text the word Jesus to 81891. And you know what? We're going to be here next time for another episode. But before we go, I want to tell you gals that we heard from Pam. Hey, Pam, thank you so much for listening. She left a comment on Spotify. The episode we did on the global church. And she said, what an eye opener. Thank you ladies for sharing new perspective on the church. I always enjoy listening to Girl Talk, praying blessings over y'all. Thank you, Pam, so much for listening. We love you too. And we appreciate you being part of this community. And you know what? You can like, subscribe. You can even leave us a comment. Send us a message there where you get the podcast. We'd be honored to hear from you. And we're going to save you a seat next time we gather around these microphones for the next Girl Talk podcast.