What Elite Football Teams Get Right About Speed, Power, and Performance with Christian Clarup and Dr Martin Buchheit

Welcome back to the podcast. Today, very happy to welcome Christian Claren. Christian has built a really interesting journey across elite European football over the last 15 years. Starting in Danish academy football, then spending almost a decade at FC Mithiland during one of the most successful pair of the club history. Before moving abroad to Spartak Prague, where he worked through Champions League League football and consecutive league titles. More recently, Christian was head of performance at the SL Varsburg in the Bundesliga. And he also worked with the Danish national team due to Euro-24 campaign in Germany. What I personally find very interesting with Christian is the combination of strong practical field experience, a very clear training philosophy around speed, power and intensity, and also a very pragmatic approach to monitoring and play a management in high-performance football and vibe. In this cover session, we go through his evolution as a practitioner and a leader, the difference between the Scandinavian and Central European football culture, how he structures physical preparation in a football, how he uses jump, profiling and normoscola monitoring, how he's managing dense, schedule and player freshness, and also some honest reflection on leadership, pressure, instability and learning from difficult periods in professional football. I really enjoyed this discussion because Christian brings a very grounded and practical perspective from the inside of top European environment. So without further ado, let's get into it. Hey Christian, very good to see you. How are you today? Good morning Martin, nice to see you as well. And thank you very much for the invite and the opportunity to speak a bit on your podcast. It's awesome, very, very happy to have you. As I've often introduced the chat, I always put a bit of context of how we've met and the relationship I have with guests. So I would say that we don't know each other very, very well, but we manage to see each other in a few times already. At some stage you were in a camp, I think you were with Prague at that time, camp in Marbeja. And I think you reach out, visited our family in Opsimo. And I was very glad that we kept the relationship because then I could visit you in Prague as well with my son. We were there for a bit of a holiday, then straight with my daughter. And it was very good option to opportunity to visit you. And yeah, we kept tap, kept in touch. You've done a great job in different high-level clubs. European football as well. And I thought there was definitely the right time because I think you had a bit of more time recently. So that's the moment to catch Christian. So no introduction, but if you don't mind, I'd like to hear a little bit your journey as a whole introduce yourself. And then you would dive into your career. And there's a lot of specific questions that I'd like to hear from you as well. Yes. And like you said, you're absolutely right. I have more time now. The modern term is that I'm between jobs. So basically I'm without a job. I'm out of contracts. So there's plenty of time to do things that normally is a little bit hard to fit in when you're inside working for a club team and quite busy. But yeah, my journey in football very shortly, I started an academy level. I think a lot of practitioners start then and build their way up. So I was lucky that one of my professors at my Danish university was connected to a football team. He was in charge of the men's first team. And he asked me if I would like to support him and help with the academy parts. So I started with under 17 football in Denmark. Was there twice a week helping a little bit off the pitch and then from there it build up to working full time in the club. The Danish team called the Viallibull Club, who unfortunately just got relegated from the best Danish league this season. Then I moved there after three and a half season, working my way from academy into first team to FC Midjoland in Denmark. I spent a lot of time there, almost ten seasons. And then I had the opportunity to go outside Denmark, which was really nice. I wanted to try that. In Danish terms, we did a really good work with Midjoland and the club achieved their first titles, championship and cup, and also qualifying for European group stages, Champions League and Europa League. That was quite nice. And then I had the option to go out with the Danish coaching staff to the Czech Republic, to Sparta Prague. And I was there three seasons. And again, a really nice experience. First of all, it was nice going outside Denmark and leaving my home country outside my comfort zone. So there was no goodwill, there was no friendly relationships. You knew no one except for maybe the few Danish coaches who went there. So that was a great experience and then of course we did a very good job again at that club. So the experience also got really good because football is decided by results normally. So if you deliver good results, the experience is also a little bit better. So we had some great spell with winning the title, two years in a row, going into Champions League. And that was really nice. It was also nice to try a completely different culture compared to the Scandinavian. Scandinavians were quite calm, quite flat structure. And the Czechs are a little bit more, at least when it comes to football, a little bit more emotional, engaged into it. So you really feel the upside. And you also really feel the downside also because Sparta Prague is a massive club to be honest. And especially in that part of Europe, it's a really, really big club, really, really big fan base. So you really get the atmosphere of a big team. And while I was in Sparta, I had the option to go with the Danish national team, preparing for the Euro's in Germany. So that was a really good experience as well. And from there, after three really great seasons in Sparta, I went to Germany to Wolfsburg in the Bundesliga. And that was like my personal final thing I would like to see working in one of the big, big leaks in Europe to see how that was. So I had the luck and the possibilities to work outside my country, work inside a big leak, work for the national team and also be lucky enough to work with teams who did well and was part of the highest level of European club football in the Champions League. So that's my football journey. Right now I'm doing nothing. Well, I'm sure you're going to be soon very, very busy, no doubt. But definitely, yes, in those kind of, if you put together Sparta, national team, Wolfsburg, it's a block of four, five years where you've been really, really busy and at the top of top of the sports. I think you're just coming out from a very, very dense high level pair of work, which that's what I want to do here from youth equity. And I'm sure maybe just before we dive back into those stories, I'm curious to know how have you used your time being out of the club because we were also discussing that offline. It's tough. You're busy when you're in those club, those environments. So what's the, what have you done the last two, three months? I have spent a lot of time with my family, which is not always an option when you're inside inside a club working, especially if you are working with teams with a really busy schedule. So if you play the domestic league or you play any play in the cup and you play in Europe and the schedule is really, really busy and you have a lot of national team players you have to speak and coordinate with national teams is extremely busy. So I spend a lot of time with my kids and my wife done really simple and nice stuff like having dinner with your family, cooking breakfast. Watching them do the activities outside of school when they play football or in Denmark, handball is a thing, it's a big thing when they do the sports. That's been really nice. Then I've been educating myself a little bit. So I'm participating in the Danish FAs fitness, UAF and fitness A license course they're doing right now and then some other small stuff just to keep myself active and not just one big long holiday. Yeah, I'm sure. And you feel you had had enough, I mean, two or three months is enough to update yourself. Or you think maybe you get a few more months. Is this a specific project you really wanted to learn from or was just more catching up? Yeah, being sure you were on the top of main topics or. Yeah. So I for sure, there's also a little bit trendy right now also because of some of the work you've been doing Martin. But I need to catch up on my heart rate topic too for sure because like a lot of other practitioners maybe I used heart rate and I used it quite intense for the last three or four seasons maybe. But before that I also got a little bit cold. up in the GPS norm was that I relied heavily on GPS data and forgot a little bit about the internal the actual training load response. So I've been trying to look a bit more into to hard rate on how to be can I use it a little bit smarter maybe. What advice. So that that part I've been looking into and then yeah of course it's been nice just to speak with some colleagues as well. Exactly. Yeah. It's really I find it personally really hard to find. I don't know if energy is the right word but to actually be really outgoing and networking when I'm inside a team because I'm so into the daily work that I also need to give myself some recovery time and then I don't prioritize to catch up with colleagues as much as I should maybe. So I had some some nice talks as well. So that's the main part I've been looking into to at the moment. I've been reflecting a little bit on my own. What is my let's say leadership style? How would I approach it once I go into to a new job because some things have been really good and of course there's also been some some some bad stuff and I think it's always good to to reflect on on your own approach once in a while to see what did actually work well and what could work better next time I go into a job. Yeah. Now that makes a lot of sense and when you when you mention reaching out to friends, colleagues, peers that's exactly also what I've done especially when I got sucked from from Leon which was the middle of the season or even start of the season so you're like okay there's probably at least six nine months before I get eventually maybe another job so having a plan and I think I probably reach out to a hundred people a bit everywhere and you're like you're just yeah do you have 30 minutes to catch up what about what about and it's good because as you said you don't do that the rest of the time you just caught on the daily routine and it's impossible so I don't think that's also the beauty sometimes of being being a being sector or not not being working from a season to another because you have more time as you said family and this reflection so it's it's almost some time a win as well especially normally the clubs at least they pay you off at least until the end of the season so you're not like having to to start to to wash dishes to make sure you still keep paying the rent and the school so that's almost a privilege for a few months. I had this recent discussion with Jan Lambert a good friend Jan who was in Monaco and he got let go a few months ago and he went exactly to exactly the same was roughly the same same time as you and he's been enjoying also his time as you said family they went I want to disclose everything but yeah they want to on a prolonged journey kind of a break holiday with the kids and he's been doing his network bit and he's probably like you just now as we discussed probably discussing with other clubs and he would get back into probably this crazy life but anyway anyway long long introduction long say way but I was the curious to know how you've managed this transition but maybe I would say more you mentioned a little bit your the story the journey and maybe I'll start with something that I've seen in Prague when I was visited the club and I'm sure we can tie that back with what you what you were doing before in Norway and after facilities club facilities that was very interesting to see that you guys were actually training in this old stadium yeah which I found very very special and maybe you'll be able to tell the listener better how the setup how how was what was organized and I would be curious to know how you you have adapted to this it's not a typical training ground you know so can you just tell us a little bit more the the structure and then I'll have also more more question of the back of that yeah so the the training ground is located inside a massive old stadium if I recall it correctly it's it was built mainly for to do military parades and stuff the Czech Republic was once Czechoslovakia and was well that's occupied I think by the Soviet Union and they they used it for for the parades and showing off the way I if I remember correctly and it's massive I think it could it could be more than over 100,000 spectators or whatever you call it to to watch this and then inside that sparse I build a building and modern one so when you come from the outside it looks quite old a little bit worn down and there's some regulations that they can't modernize the facilities because of the historical events that happen there as to stay like original but inside so I remember the first time when I drove there you I come up a small hill and I look at this and it looks like a really really old stadium and I thought yeah same forest I thought the I thought the taxi didn't drop us at the right place you know right and then you see the logo you say okay yeah maybe around yeah then you come in the main gate open up and then there's a quite new we were building modern building modern facilities so that was a really cool experience so walking in through the gates the first time and then inside they have which personally I like it's quite nice they have everything inside the building so you have the first team on the top floor then you have the second team and then you have the academy in the same building which means that the under eight boys are basically in the same compound as the first team players and that was that was also quite nice I think because if you do it the right way there's a quite short way between the first team and the academy which should make it easier to develop the talent right and then you have a lot of football grounds inside the the the big old stadium because it's so big so I think is there eight nine ten pitches inside maybe some dedicated for the first team some for the second team and then the rest is for the academy that was quite nice and then the first team have a separated floor where there's only access for first team staff and first team players so it's still a little bit separated but inside the same place so that was a that's quite nice and for the size of the league they have quite good facilities to to be honest yeah no the 50 but yeah super super interesting some I'm glad we just like I think there's a lot of people probably that they don't know this specific setup I think it's worth the story and I enjoyed 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certificate one foundations course we walk you through the essentials base training build training balancing volume and intensity feeling and hydration recovery and how to interpret your own training data so what makes this different is the integration in each principle you'll learn how to get experienced directly through your athletic a plan it's science and practice training as both the classroom and the lab because we all learn best by feeling and do it so if you're interested in how we can better scale best practice coaching and bridge science with applied sport you'll want to take a look you'll find everything over at athletica.ai we'll see you there so when you you guys arrived so you moved with the if I'm right the coaching coaching staff that you worked with previously in Denmark and then you guys arrived so what was the the setup like in terms of the team that moved together assistant coaches and yourself so it was I worked with a head coach before in Denmark Brian Priske he he's he's actually back in sparta now but he went from mid-Julynda and then he was in Belgium and he's had fine orders well and now he's back in sparta so I went down with him and then he brought a Danish assistant coach and head of a analysis he was not Danish he was English but he worked in Denmark for for quite some time and me so us four we went down there in the beginning and then there was a small change in in the winter because the first assistant coach went back to Denmark to become a head coach and then a new assistant coach came in who I I worked with before so by Christmas there was a small group where everybody worked together before and then of course we we had the local staff check Slovakians and then I brought in sports scientists that I worked with before in Denmark as well because the department was really not existing when I came. There was one fitness coach from before the rest has left. So we had to build a new department with sports science and nutrition and stuff like that. Luckily for me, the guy who stayed, Slovakian, Thomas Mali, from day one he just did everything he could to help the new guys come. Yeah, met him also a few times then. No, yeah. I was saying hi to him anyway. Yes, very good. Very small, smart guy, super intelligent, lot smarter than me. So that was really good for me to have a really hard working local guy who could also give me good advices, especially on the exercise physiology and fitness testing. He's really strong and that was good for me. And then it always helps to have a guy who speaks the local language, who understands everything. And if you as a Western or Northern European guy ever tried being in the more eastern part, the language is completely different, completely different. So you understand, I understood zero. And after three years maybe I could, I don't know, 100 words maybe, but the polite ones I could say hello and goodbye and can I please pay with card and all that simple stuff, the conversation impossible. So that was really good to have a local guy who understands the culture, the language and the club, especially when he just was doing everything he could to help the technical staff and meet to succeed. So that was really good. And remember from our chat as well, the club gave you this not only responsibility of mission, like you took this role of head of performance, which is often also a club based position. And that's something I kept discussing throughout all the episodes about the coaching staff, bringing a fitness guy and then you have the head of performance and sometimes roles, responsibility, ownership are not very clear. In this case, there were not, there was nobody in this position, so you took kind of both roles at the same time. Yeah, I did. And to be honest, the first season, your work was only about the first team to make that work, to get all the structures, the workflow, the framework running. And once that was working really well, we implemented for the second team. And then we started working with the academy as well. So my title and role was head of performance, but in the first season, my main work was with the first team. So I had the title of head of performance. I operated maybe a little bit more as a head of first team fitness or whatever you want to call it. And then the year two and three was really more overseeing the whole club and organizing new staff members in and out and frameworks and stuff like that. So that it evolved drastically to be honest. And it was a club role for me because the head coach I joined, he left after two seasons and then a new coach came in, who was Danish as well. And when they decided to unfortunately terminate, the second coach's contract, they still kept me. So it was not like I was connected solely with a coach. So it was a club role in the end for me. And from all your experience back in Denmark, what are the main the key things that you really brought with you? Now I'm diving a bit more into your coaching, training philosophy. I understand the difficulty about the context. And I think it's glad that you mentioned the language and all this kind of stuff. But I'm sure there's a few things you really believe in that you had developed already back in Denmark. And you say, okay, now if I'm going to sport at least I want this to be operating because that's what I believe in, for example. So I always trained for speed power intensity focus. That's been my main topic. Maybe that's also why the hard rate thing went out a little bit for me because at that point, maybe I'm a little bit smarter now. I did not see how hard rate added a big value to when I was training with focus on speed power intensity. So that's always been the main framework for me. Make sure a lot of focus on excels, decels, high speed running, sprinting, supporting football trainings with a lot of intensity and density, not fast trainings basically. And that's the philosophy I like. I also think it made good sense for the teams I worked in at least. And then of course it was quite easy going from Denmark to the Czech Republic because I knew the technical stuff. Because technical stuff will always be the main drivers of how will the training actually look on the pitch. So we need a really good collaboration and understanding of how and when we should train. So it was implemented really fast. But that's the thing I've been focusing on always. Just to be a bit more, if you can dive a little bit to that. So you said, okay, intensity, acceleration, high speed. So that's really the quality type of work, new muscular. So I guess that through gym, gym prep, pitch, post-peach, can you take us a little bit through your typical day or especially if it's a date there was more emphasis on this physical capacity, baby. So I try to structure everything around that concept that we try to train with a lot of speed and intensity. So it's from the nutrition part that needs to support muscle development, fast recovery from the nutrition, from the supplementation, from the hydration into the prep before we go on the pitch. So we make sure that the players are actually ready to already from the warm-up to work quite intensive because the warm-up is preparing them into normally intensive games on the pitch, depending on where we are on the micro cycle, if it's big spaces, small spaces, whatever fits into your context. To the gym work that should hopefully support these isolated components. So there is some maximum strength lifting, there is some plyometrics, there will be some eccentric work, there will be some isometric work throughout the week. And then one of the main focus for me is how efficient are we on the pitch, the time on the pitch. It for me is never been a goal or a target to spend a lot of minutes on the pitch, but actually to be as efficient as possible keep the density really high. So everything is prepared, set up from the drills, from straight from the warm-up into whatever the next exercises to the next exercise to the next exercise and have a good communication with the technical stuff. Of course there must be space to explain the tactical concepts, but can we be as efficient and fast as possible. So we keep the rhythm and the flow of the training as high as possible because that would also produce intensity in terms of meters per minute or whatever you want to look at for your training session. And that's always been quite important for me. Okay, now I accept it. So you mentioned a lot of different elements into your gym work, you mentioned plyo is a max strength. So I think especially in the context of football of course, you know, max strength is not the same as a max strength work for rugby or other team sports. So how do you how have you built this in? I don't know if for example if we talk about Prague, you know, if those guys were doing some sort of heavy leaves before, I'll be curious to know how you implemented this and how much, you know, how much or how heavy for example. Yeah, so you can always discuss different concepts and and and some of it are really heavily backed by science. Some of it is maybe a little bit more not heavily backed. Personally, I like velocity based training because I like the feedback part for the players. So you're absolutely correct. If I say we train maximum strength and I take in the S&C coach for the English rugby team, he will probably look at me and say, are you sure that we are doing maximum strength training, but in the in the football context, I would argue that we did because the maximum effort is not always only with the barbell, right? Because we also do quite a lot of sprint training. We do a lot of plyo metrics. We do a lot of excel, decal that also builds into it. And of course, maximum strength is an important component in my opinion in football, but it's not, it's probably not the most important component. So it's for me it's more to support that the players can actually handle some of the really hard excel decal components. components. But I use VB velocity based training to make sure that we lift with intention and effort. And we is not a big volume, is not a big load. We will do simple match, if we have the time, match day minus four is what I like to do. Two, three sets in some big lifts. It could be a track bar deadlift, it could be a Bulgarian split squat, which will probably be the two main lift, or it could be a pin squat, if that's where we're going. And then we will do some support work around that. Then on the minus two, we'll go a little bit faster, we'll do some bounding, we'll do some jumping, maybe even some loaded jumping. And then personally, I like on the match day to do a priming session, if it fits into your context. And then we have a little bit of a loaded, unloaded jumping. Yeah. And then on the plus one, ISO work, upper body work. And that's basically how it how it flows. And then we all know if you play a lot of gangs and you travel a lot, the gym is not for adding extra fatigue and heavy load on the players. It's more to maintain tendon health and some recovery based exercises. And then to be honest, the maximum part goes away because in my opinion, there's no time if you have to play. There's no space. You have to play midweek, you have to travel, you have to play in the week and you have to play again. And often your players who who are in this program also play with the national team. So it's more trying not to put extra fatigue in the players, but also try to make sure that they can handle the work related demands from the games, right? Yeah. Very good. I'm glad you mentioned the VBT as well. And that's of course another approach I've been very keen to use and also leverage. And I think this is how I also are realized. That's what is any more time in Lille and Leon. How different, like, sorry, the difference that you can see in between players that are able to cope with higher load, especially the trouble. Trabal, deadlift, that's probably the safest entry to that. You have players that are happy to load 120, 140, 160 kilos to get some slow movement, which would be targeting a bit more toward the maximum strength. And others, 60, 80 kilos, that's the max they can do because they just don't want to load. And for those guys, it becomes a power training, but you cannot just get into the load that is enough. So we've been trying to do more compounds leaf, adding other exercise before super sets to try to reach those recruitment. So I don't know any take on the variability of players response or strategies for those that are not able to lift, for example. So it's for me, it's, I think in the beginning of my, let's call it football career, I spend a lot of time focusing on the methodology and the framework and what was correct. And we need to do this kind. And I think I shifted also into understanding how to get the player by in a little bit more because some football players are afraid of lifting the field. Some have been told that I don't know why they will get slow and they will get injured and you will be unethylatic if you do stuff in the gym. And there's also cultural difference in Scandinavian and UK part. It's completely normal and integrated philosophy for most fitness coaches to use real gym work. Let's call it that actual lifting. And when you move to other parts, it's, they have a little bit more focus on some resisted work and balance and stuff like that. They are not so much into the lifting and they are concerned. It will affect. So it's also to show the players that it's, first of all, it's safe because all football guys are afraid of getting injured, which is a fair point. Secondly, we will not have a negative effect on your performance. That's also what they are afraid. So the way we implemented in the new club is in the preseason. We practice everything new. So we build it up slowly and progressive showing the players that is actually quite safe and they actually feel okay. And a lot of them found out, especially with the tendon part, they actually felt better when they start doing meaningful lifts in the gym. And then what I like is, that's also why I like the VBT because you have a direct feedback to the players and all football players are a little bit competitive, right? So if you can provide direct feedback to the players, either they compete a little bit with themselves or they compete a little bit with their surroundings. Can they actually lift a meaningful weight a little bit faster? Now we go outside target. We'll put a little bit more low. And that way I think we got, I would say 99.5% player buying. Of course, there's also always once or twice where a player is really not up for it and then you just have to work around and manage them. So I really like the VBT to get that atmosphere inside the gym that when we're here, we're not here for a long time, but we actually do meaningful lifts with good intentions. Quality. No, excellent. I think link to this idea of the quality. And of course, as you said before, with the congestion, it's always very difficult to fit those sessions and make sure, and that's also why there is so much, let's say, interest into monitoring the response, the freshness, the numbers, you know, fatigue and so on. And I know you guys have been leveraging a lot to jump, jump tests, right? Yeah. So I use CMJ. So some simple reasons. I think it's easy to implement. It's non-invasive for the players because they jump every day when they're on the pitch. They're quite used to it. Then I think, of course, it can never be done. No data set or data collection can stand alone. So it's part of the layer of monitoring the players combined with the wellness questionnaires, the internal load, external load, hydration, maybe you'd collect biomarkers, whatever you do inside your team, maybe you use some of the muscle testing as well from northboard or force frame or whatever equipment you prefer to use. So it's part of the puzzle to try to understand the players a little bit. But we use CMJ and then we combine it with the players wellness and then we combine it with the isometric strength on the adopters from a squeeze test to get an understanding to compare the players with their own baseline. And it's the changes inside from the baseline and from what looks normal that we are looking for. And then I also got smarter. So in the beginning with CMJ, we just looked at jump height based on flight time. Okay. Then I also get a little bit smarter. People look more into it. We find out maybe you can still have a good jump height, but you just change your technique. So you are probably still fatigue from a neuromuscular perspective. Then we try to look into peak power and then finally we got into the eccentric phase, some displacement of the hip and stuff like that. Did they cover up their fatigue by changing the jump technique? So that's like the way I approach it. And then the next thing like I said, CMJ, so besides fatigue is also we actually do some jumping, unloaded with maximum intention and effort because they also get the way we do the direct feedback from the iPad when we do the jump. And the players also like that and we get a little bit fun as well who can jump the highest and it gets a little bit competitive and that's always good. And then finally if the player should buy whatever reason get injured is always nice to have some data from before the injury, right? So it's nice to have a lot of CMJ data. Not just a little bit in the preseason, a little bit in the preseason, but actually a lot of data points weekly we did it. And then you can actually look left, right side, whatever you want to do, landing phase, how do you absorb the forces and stuff. So it can be used in a lot of smart ways. So I like it because it's so easy to implement. Yeah, no, definitely. As you said, it starts with players buying, buying, sorry, and depending again on the context, the player you have the generation, the age, the culture, it's sometimes easier than in other contexts because it still requires a maximum intent. That's where also the scheduling and finding the right days to do it is probably also part of getting the outcome you want. So in your case, when would you use the jumps in or what you place them in the microsecond? So we have it on the match day because we did the priming session in the morning. So So the context I was in the squat, it was normally that you came in, had a breakfast, you did a priming session and then you went to the hotel for the relaxation and the pre-match meal. So you had basically a whole day, other teams they decide to meet each other directly at the stadium, some just meet for pre-match meal. So it has to be context-based, but that's the way we did it. So we did it as part of our priming session because it's just an unloaded jump. So we did on match day and then we did it on match day plus one. And there's always considerations on plus one because some players they can't jump, they had a knock, they had an angled twist. You can also, there's also reality if you lose a game. The motivation is quite low. Exactly. Exactly. So for me, explaining the players a lot that we are doing this, not just to collect the data or to be really smart sport scientists, but we are trying to do this to help you to perform as high level as possible and this will benefit you throughout the season. And once you get that and actually show the players, we are active using the data to plan your training week or your gym sessions or then I've found it quite easy to get a buy in. And then sometimes, okay, we will miss a data point in the set because the player is just, we're not going to have a massive fight over a CM day jump on plus one if you lost the day before and you're tired, fatigued and you have to travel. Okay, that's where I think we go a little bit away from the textbook work and then accept we're human beings. Exactly. So we did it on match day, match day plus one. And then we would normally do it after a day off as well if we had that in the morning before we went out to get like some kind of freshness idea of the players. Can they actually perform and how are they looking? So probably two or three times per week, we would have the CMJ part in. And then individually, if they coming back from injuries, return to play or maybe we missed a data point on a player, we need to get some data in. Okay, then we would collect an extra CMJ. Yeah, I was about to ask, so I think you went through of course being flexible on the use of a plus one deep again being on the context. What about the match day measurements? And because we had the same question challenges back in Lille where we're doing a lot of jumps and we were doing that often on a minus one part of the activation, part of the session of minus one. But for virus rhythm, you know, if some players would actually be below their average, they would start to freak out that they would not be fresh enough for the game. But when it was minus one, we're like, don't worry, you still have 24 hours. So you don't worry, you will have recovered. But now if it's game day, game day you are below. You see what I mean? So you don't want to start to stress players. I don't know. But that's why we did everything in the preseason. So we did the preseason games like we would do a normal game. So we did the priming session and the jump session showing the players is a little bit like the Woop data, right? Some players, if they look at their Woop data or data, whatever, and it's a little bit off, they get afraid I can't train, I can't perform. And then with a good discussion and dialogue saying, we used the numbers to be informed, but not driven by them. Because we all know that I for sure have seen CMJ data where the player is not performing at his maximum level for whatever reason. And he goes out and he plays from a physical perspective a really, really top game. So it's to inform the players also that there will always be outliers, positive or negative. But what we're looking at is a trend over time. So if you have a declining trend over time, we have to modify your training probably because of fatigue. Normally in our system, not because of detraining. So probably they are, they played a lot of games, traveling a lot. So it's more the trend than the isolated single point. That's why I think when you do your testing, if you do just a little bit of preseason and a preseason, whatever you do, there's so many things that can be wrong on that single day or perfect on that single day that the numbers are basically just outliers. So I never tried in a competitive game that the players were afraid of not performing because they were jumping one or two centimeters lower than what they normally did. Yeah, I think that's exactly the right way to frame it. Looking at trends, understanding overall response to the training, response to load. Because just back on this example where you would say, and we all seen that player is, I would say, first centimeter or maybe it's 90% of his rest, Raktis, 20 index is eccentric velocity or those markers and said, "Oh, don't throw it, you can play." And then the next week, you would say, "Actually, you're also 90% of your usual, now we're gonna change training. We're gonna adjust training because we are afraid of injury." And I said, "Yeah, but you let me play 90 minutes the other day when I had the same deviation from my norm." So this is where sometimes we have to make sure we have the right story to the players. Otherwise we can be shooting ourselves bullet in the foot without those measurements. For sure. And I think normally in my experience that players are not always too concerned about being modified in the training week as long as they can play in the weekend. Yes. But that would be the argument of a player that does not want to jump and those guys are very clever. And you would say, "Well, you want me to jump now because I'm gonna play anyway." And a fair point. So just to close the loop on the monitoring, so you said you're doing some squeeze as well, would they be aligned at the same time as the jump? You would pair them or it would be another timing? So the squeeze we will not do on the match day because I don't like players to do maximum isometric work on the match day. The isometric we will do on the plus one and then we will compare it to we will normally do it on the minus four or something else where we do the four frames. So it's not 100% textbook correct, I think, but more from a practical perspective. So on the plus one we do the squeeze and the jump and the wellness questionnaire of course and then we compare the jump and the wellness from the day before, normally 24 or 36 hours before. And then the fourth frame we look at how is it compared to the training week, hopefully after day off if we have it. And then it's mostly the trend we look to see if the players have a big drop on the strength part as well. Okay. No, it makes sense. The last comment I could make on the strategy of the jumps where there's squeeze at plus one and I understand completely the rationale behind that is to evaluate the response to the game and how much the fatigue or the impact of the game on the other side. And that's probably what we're just working on another extension piece of the paper we wrote with my good friend Karim Adder when we talked about the monitoring quadro or the load of the response and what we're suggesting and that's also reflecting a bit more our practices is that try to have too much the monitoring tools in relation to the types of day and focus on the day. So basically just back to your point plus one is supposed to be more recovery day. So we would favor non active non type of test that don't require any thought. This is where for example back in my days at PSG we're doing a lot of CK for example CK plus one you know you're already recovering so you don't want we don't want to ask you to do to perform a maximum effort on the day. You're supposed to you're supposed to recover and often as you said you just don't want to produce a maximum effort because you're completely your your your your your your tired. So we would prefer and use the jumps. Definitely the minus one is good way it's a good time because you're you're activating maybe the minus four if you're doing a lot of stuff in the gym you're already very active. So that's that's our where we used to place the jumps on days where the demands were already high and a plus one or maybe a minus two if your micro cycle dynamic is to reduce the load on the minus two we would we would swap with a more passive non aggressive types of measurement. Just a comment. But again there's no right or wrong but that's that's our call on that. I fully understand the context. I like the squeeze on the on the plus one as well because it's also a screening tool for me because if the players say I don't want to squeeze because I have pain in my doctors and growing. You know already then we know okay we have to to flag this player and and and some players will try to avoid sharing this information because they're afraid they're not going to play the next game. But if. If it's, I always integrate isometric work on the plus one anyway, because in the tight schedules it's really hard to get the power strength components in, but we can probably do some isometric work without too much mechanical load probably. And therefore, it's a natural component to have isometric work for the doctors as well. And it's also just like I said before the screening tool. So if the players say, "I can't squeeze, squeeze today, I have too much pain or I feel a lot of pain when I squeeze." Then we know the medical staff, the visual staff has to get a little bit more involved with the players and we can actually hopefully be a little bit more proactive this way and get a little bit more information. Yeah, no, I'm glad you point that and you mentioned that from the start, squeeze should go always with pain or at least a sensation. And that's probably a test that is very, very, it's a dual response to a squeeze which is always a balance between pain, discomfort and the forced production. And of course, I've just been discussing that more and more with also end-acquing with my colleagues in Aspetal and is a world expert in growing. And he keeps saying that just looking at the strength enough, a strength alone is not enough, and it's always a balance between both. And so yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, makes a total sense. Excellent. So I think most of the topic we just discussed now about your approach of strength, your approach of the monitoring. You said that we were kind of discussing and I went about the things that I've heard you talking about your timing Prague. But then when you moved to VoiceBurg, did you have the same approach of the things or you had to modify, again, based on the context, based on all the factors or roughly you just kept implementing the same approach. VoiceBurg was a little bit different case because the program was different because the team was only, I say, only competing in the Bundesliga and in the Cup. So there was no European games, so there was a little bit more training days available, a little bit less match-low. On the other hand, the team was trained in a quite different way and maybe also from a physical perspective, a little bit inconsistent way because there was often a change in the technical stuff in VoiceBurg prior and still, which means that all coaches have different approaches to how they like to train. Some like to train long training sessions, maybe not with a lot of intensity, but a lot of details or tactical. Some coaches like to train extremely fast, short time on the pitch, some technical or head coaches like to have the players in the gym, some don't like it. And there was no performance department at VoiceBurg, so they did not have a head of performance or performance director or whatever you call it, so everything was a little bit in the same flat structure, which means there was no clear framework for how do we train physical capacities as a club, but a lot determined by the head coach philosophy and work for sure. But it also means there was no consistency in how other players used to be trained. And then some players did a lot of power work by themselves, some players did not do it, all that kind of stuff. So it was a quite complex physical situation to jump in. Then when I arrived, the idea from the club site was they wanted to build a performance department. And that's why they brought me in. And they liked the philosophy from a fitness perspective that I represent on the speed and power. And German Bundesliga is quite physical. There's a lot of high speed and sprint meters and a lot of doors in the league and it's quite important that you can do that. And the games are extremely close and very competitive. Of course, there is this season, Bayern is exceptional and in a league by themselves, not only in Germany, but they were also doing quite good in Europe, right? So they were an outlier in the league. And then of course you have a few teams that are a little bit better and a few teams that are a little bit worse. But in general, the games are extremely competitive and really close and it's never given if you're going to win or lose to be honest. And so you have to, there's no easy games. That's what I'm trying to say. So the club wanted a strong physical profile. So they hired a whole new technical staff and me and the coach was also, the style was more based around speed, power and intensity. Short time on the pitch with a lot of speed when we train. So that's what they wanted to implement from a club perspective. So we tried to integrate what I did in Denmark with FC Midgilland and also with Sparta. So we implemented quite a similar structure. And then you know better than me Martin, adaptations into changes take quite some time, right? So if you want to have a completely new physical profile, training approach, you probably need quite some time and you need some consistency inside your club. And every time you change a head coach or a sporting director or a CEO or GM or whatever the title is, it changes a little bit always. So it was hard to do something on a consistent level to be honest. We had to get the structure like we did in Sparta. So in the mind of the football teams too. And Matt Steyray also did the priming session before we went on the pitch and solely based on the of Bundesliga match data. I am not always a big fan of just looking at match data isolated because it's always based on context. How is your style of play? How is your opponent doing? How many games do you play? But for sure we had a big lift from the data last season on the high speed and sprinting data to this season at least the time I was there. We made a massive jump and we were in the top three or four in the Bundesliga on the physical output. Then the football coach will say, yeah, but it's just because you're chasing the ball. Yeah, maybe that could be an option. We also have to look into context, but at least we had the physical capacity to deliver really high sprint and the high speed meters in the games. So that would be your list, the list bad KPI to say at least as you said, we are we're able to deliver. Now are we delivering well? That's another point that you is more difficult to assess, but no, get your point. Exactly. Because everything is connected, right? So I really don't like if I just say, yeah, but we are delivering the physical output if the team is not successful. Then it's not important how the physical output is to be honest. It's a problem if we are not successful and we can't deliver the physical work. Okay, that is a problem from the performance department. But as performance department, we can't hide behind our numbers and say, yeah, but look, we're delivering a massive physical output. So we've done our job. Now everything is connected, right? So you have to look a little bit more into to the broader context in my opinion. Yeah, definitely. And maybe on your shorter experience in Vosburg and again, feel free to comment on share on what you are comfortable with because I know it's always a bit sensitive, but my comment on the fact that you so exited the club a bit before the end of the season, I was mentioning Jan Le Mare in Monaco, happened to carry him when he was in Trois, happened to me, of course, as well when I was in New York. So even our jobs, so those club guys ahead of performance are no more and more let go during the season, which I thought would not happen. We know coaches, we know coaches, a few loss in the row. You need to save the club by the solution. So coach coach are replaced mid season. But people like our profiles, I would I was expecting at least, you know, let them finish the season and let's discuss, you know, what can be done. So any any comment on that, I mean, you don't have to comment on your specific case, but I'm just, yeah, that's this is happening now. Head of performance are getting let go during the season. Yeah. So personally, I have no hard feelings towards the Volkswagen and decisions that were made that for me. That's part of the industry we're working inside. There is a risk of losing using your job, then you also get some benefits that you would not get outside this industry for some most financial part of it. So that's for me, I knew the day I left Denmark, the risk of me or possibility of me getting fired at one point would be a lot higher. So for me, that's just part of it, that's no issue for me and my guess is it will probably not also be the last time I will try to lose my job. It's the first time I ever got fired. It's also the first time that I left a club with a feeling that I did not deliver a job that I was happy with or that I was, let's say, done with. So that's the main part for me that I was unhappy that I did not finish what I was hired for. Then of course there are circumstances that made it quite difficult. So the sporting director who actually hired me was fired after three or four months. And the CEO who indirectly hired me as well was also released before me. So the two guys who hired me to implement and build a new performance department, their visions and their ideas and their framework, they were fired before me. And of course then it becomes a little bit difficult to actually work and continue the idea based on their framework. And then other parts were changes in technical stuff. So there were maybe three head coaches this season, I think in Wolfsburg. So it's also what we do as a performance or fitness coach or whatever you are is always relationship based. So you need to have some kind of relationship with the technical stuff and it can be in my opinion a little bit challenging to build a good and strong working relationship two or three months and then a new one comes in and then you change all the time. So that's that's for sure. Also a little bit challenging conditions to work in. But that's part of football, like you said. It happens all the time and then you can always discuss in football do we actually give coaches and maybe also perform in guys enough time to do that job. Because if you change all the time and you have new directors and you have new head coaches and you have new performance managers who are often the main drivers of the direction of the club along with the head of scouting or whatever academy directors. If you change consistently it seems a little bit hard to achieve good stuff. Of course. Of course, it's impossible. That's my opinion. I tried in Denmark to work if Cimigielin and the guy who is a little bit doubt if he's the CEO now or he's actually titled but he's been in the club for since the day the club started basically. So he's been driving along with other people in the club the direction of the club for 20 or 25 years now and that creates consistency. And if you also have people who are doing a qualified job and they are consistent, then I think logically you get a good end result. Definitely. I think there's a bit of a balance but of course you need stability to have time to build things because as you said you cannot change everything in three months. So you need the stability and I have a lot of examples of like through my consulting work and the network. You know, I've seen clubs where you have stuff that have been five, six, eight, ten years in the same club and there's no way they're all doing a better job than the average other clubs where they just keep changing. However, on the other side you also need a little bit of change, a little bit of, you know, you need to keep a core stuff that kind of build and keep the momentum. But if it's just the same core stuff, they just circulate in the same bubble and they are not exposed either to novelty change and so on. So it's kind of a subtle mix. Maybe I think you can almost take the example of that's always something I always remember when back in his days Ferguson in Manu, he was saying that he was always changing a few players every year. I think three four new players every season, keeping the same squad adding some, I think it's a sample for stuff, you know, you always maybe if every second season or every season there is maybe one new physio, one new sports scientist and then they come and go and then you build up. So it's probably something in between that that's my take. I think you're right because it's always nice to work with people that you know for a longer period and maybe you also on a personal level like them, but there's also the fear or the downside that you get a little bit too comfortable, too relaxed and you also get afraid to maybe challenge the environment and each other enough. And if you do the same stuff, if I did the same work I did 10 years ago, I don't think I would be able to work at a high level elite European football that would be impossible. So you have to constantly evaluate yourself, evaluate your environment, evaluate you, maybe even your colleagues, even though it can be a little bit unpleasant sometimes and then you have to take the proper respectful of course discussions to actually drive performance because that's the main part. The main part is that we are hired by a team or club to deliver high performance at some level, it would no matter what job you're doing and sometimes that takes a little bit of discussion and talks before you can get to that part. No, completely agree. That's a very good point. Maybe as a way to slowly close the chat, we have not mentioned your time with the national team, the Danish national team. I was maybe curious to see because that was a topic I've discussed with many guests and I don't think it's, yeah, we won't take the time to re-dive into the detail of the role and so on, but at least I'll be curious to know how you manage your time as well because at that time you were both employed by Praga and you were also. So how did you have this weekend during the international break? I can't find any relax a bit now at this time with the national team. So how did you manage that as well? I think a really key thing if you want to work in Elite Football is you need to be able to know how to handle yourself, how to take care of yourself because you will work a lot of hours, you will work a lot of days without days off, you will sometimes miss a little bit of sleep, you will miss time. If you have a family, social life, you will miss all those parts. So how do you handle yourself inside those periods to present yourself in a good way and don't get, there's a lot of papers on burnout, among staff and turnovers and stuff. So it is a real thing inside our group or profession in football that people get burned out and stressed and leave football as well. So you need to find ways to handle yourself and accept these periods. For me personally, like a lot of other, I like to exercise. So exercising a lot was the tool for me. And then I can say that's a little bit outside the academic app. But if you want to engage in this business, you need to make sure that you have a family that accept that this is the terms, meaning wife or husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever you have. You need to be aligned and you need as a couple and pair to agree this is what we do now. And therefore my wife will accept that I will have a four day summer holiday before I join my team over the euros. For instance, because if you have to feel a little bit guilty about not being home and you feel a little bit, it's possible. Exactly. So then you lose your focus. So for me, that was really important to have a really good supportive wife. And we have three children and the first one was born the same year. I started in football so they don't know anything else than that working inside a football team. So they're quite used to it. And then handle yourself, whatever you need to do. If you need to exercise, if you need to do other activities, if you need to go hunting, read books, maybe younger guys play PlayStation, what do I know is not my generation to do that, I think. So find ways where you can handle yourself and feel good and operate even though you have to work quite a lot. And then get your sleep. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. I had almost developed a model, which I call the flush model, which is a way to when there's too much. only shit. accumulating, but there's too much stuff accumulating. You have to find a way to keep flushing, so you remain on the top of the ways and the flush, as you said, exercise, family, finding your happiness into what you're doing and knowing what you're doing. And sometimes I was like, "I need to flush, give me two hours, I need to flush to get back on track." So one thing I learned over time is I think a lot of people who go in to the line of work, we do that they like to be organized, they like to have control, they like things to be inside. But I also learned I can't control everything. And if I can't control it, then I should not waste my time on it. Do something else, keep the frustration time low and actually work on the stuff that I can actively affect. Yeah, contact me more, contact me more. Hey team, big news. 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I think it's going to be time to wrap up. I'll let you maybe finish with anything you wanted to share maybe quite, I mean, we could have spent definitely more time, but anything else you wanted to add or something that I should have asked or any late last comment and then we'll close off. It's good for me Martin. I will just again say thank you for inviting me for this talk. It's great. I am very happy that people like you where I read your articles, I read your books, I follow what you post and I think it's inspirational. It's nice that you take your time to speak with me. That's really, really great and I thank you very much for that. My pleasure is very good. I'm glad I caught you in a more quiet period. As we're discussing online, there's a few roles probably in the pipeline, so I'm just wishing all the best for the summer. I'm sure you'll let me know quickly when things develop and if not, what time for the family and for personal development and on to the next. I think whatever an option or the other, you'll have a good summer for sure. Thanks for your time and chat room. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you.