[MUSIC] Welcome to another episode of Dreamers, Drivers and Doors. I'm Steve Miller with the Greater Ackron Chamber. And in this podcast, I get to talk to people who are making things happen in our region. And today is no exception. I have the pleasure of having Chris Hardesty with me. He is the new brand new executive director of the downtown Ackron Development Corporation. Welcome Chris. Thanks Steve, thanks for having me. So we're going to talk a little bit about you and your background. We'll talk a little bit about this new entity that has been created here to help with the revitalization of downtown Ackron. But then also sort of what you're seeing so far in what four weeks on the job now? Yes. Yeah, so Chris, tell us a little bit about you. Where did you come from? How'd you get here? A little bit of your background that sort of puts you in a good position to help us with what's happening here in downtown. Yeah, of course. Actually, a local kid grew up in some county. Currently residing green went to the University of Ackron, graduated there around 2016. Been in local government my whole career. Starting with the city of Canton got into economic development, moved to the city of green, did economic development, then back to Canton to do more economic development, which all those things and experiences and what I've done there has kind of led me up to this point of coming back to Ackron back into the downtown and really taking all those experiences and experiences and the knowledge that I've gained and applying it to downtown Ackron and kind of this revitalization that we're seeing here today. So for those who don't have an understanding of the craft or the science, how do you describe economic development? I describe economic development in a multitude of ways depending on the audience or really speaking to. Today, you can really describe it as place making, people, social events, really that programmatic type of thing that you want to see where you want people to come to a place, spend their money, support the local businesses, and then you see the other side of it where you have people that want to redevelop properties, convert properties, or general new construction. So economic development has a really broad range of activities, but to the average person, it might be job creation, development, projects, and then just creating an overall welcoming environment for people to come into an area. Yeah, I love that description because you started with people and I think that's a really important part of what we're trying to do. Oftentimes when I talk about economic development, I talk about getting rid of that friction that exists right between people's desire to grow and invest in their ability to do so. And I think that as we think about our downtown, I'm excited about some of the things that are happening, right? We've got some momentum going on here. You spent some time, as you said, in Canton working in their economic development shop, and I know downtown was a focus there as well. You know, talk about four weeks in as your sort of experience in this. I guess before we talk about what you're seeing so far, let's talk about the downtown Akron Development Corporation and what it is. Tell me kind of who's investing in it, generally, how is it set up and what's the work that the corporation plans to do? So the downtown Akron Development Corporation, it's been in thought for some time now, right? But new to actual existence as of this year. And it's funded by a number of stakeholders here with the City of Akron in Summit County. So the City of Akron, Summit County, the Foundations, Chamber, everything else like that really invested in this organization to be a driver of the redevelopment of downtown Akron from a nuts and bolts standpoint of how I can influence real estate and the real property development of a lot of these office towers that we're seeing kind of go out of service and put them back into service. Yeah, I mean, as somebody's been wanting for the ride for a little while on this, I think I love additional energy that the malacubination put into making this happen. I think that, you know, just so folks understand there's a combination of public and private investors. We've got probably a dozen companies that have invested in the downtown development corporation as well. And I think coming together in a very connected way to sort of drive this work, an independent organization, right? That's really focused on how do we drive activity in downtown Akron? We'd often find that in the past that we've got so many opportunities, but there is nobody on point to sort of chase those with a community. So are you finding sort of a welcome reception as you're out talking to people about the work that DADC needs to do? Yes, I've had a plenty of fantastic conversations with a lot of the new faces that are in town, specifically looking at converting buildings and, you know, they're looking for guidance. And in my background, I have that expertise that I can kind of lead them in the right direction and quarterback their project here in the downtown. And we do also have other developers that have been around the block once or twice and really know what they're doing, but maybe I can come to them and bring them a fresh perspective as to how we're looking at chasing capital or anything else like that to get that project from start to completion. When you walk around downtown Akron and you kind of take stock of where we are right now, what do you see? I see a lot of opportunity. There is an exorbitant amount of opportunity here in downtown Akron. You have, while you have buildings that are losing occupancy from a commercial standpoint, you have opportunity to turn those buildings into something fantastic. And with Elevate Greater Akron and all the other things and goals that we have, you know, we need another think 2000 doors here in downtown by 2030. And I see all these buildings that can lend to that goal. And if we can get those all together and find the money for those, we're going to be well on our way. So talk about that for a second because this whole movement in cities, you know, you come out of COVID downtown employment centers really suffered from that process. But then you also have, you know, interest rates that sort of have gone in a different direction, right? They've gotten pretty high. And so as we think about the opportunities for urban centers and that shift from employment centers to sort of work life destinations, just talk about what you're seeing in the industry there, maybe what your experience in the past and how that applies to Akron. Well, I think what you're looking at is a transition from a business sector downtown into a really of a neighborhood downtown with business components. You're never going to get rid of all your towers and all of your commercial. You're going to have core centers that have your commercial, have your office have those types of things. You're going to have a ground floor retail and you're going to backfill all of that with people indoors from a residential standpoint standpoint. So you're taking that former business center, turning it into a real neighborhood with people that are living in it and looking to backfill also amenities that are needed to support those people that are living in the downtown. And like many of the other downtowns across the state, you're seeing these older historic facilities that are positioned from a capital stack standpoint, as well as just a general standpoint of vacancy to be converted. And you're seeing a piece an increase in interest of people moving back into downtowns to live because all the amenities are central to the downtown. You can walk through lunch. You can walk to the pharmacy. You can walk to a grocery store. You can you're within, you know, 10, 15 minutes walking of all these assets. That's attractive for a lot of people. It's attractive for me. Yeah, I mean, and that's I think I have had the pleasure of working in this space for a decent amount of time. And I remember, you know, because I started my career in economic development up in Cleveland. And our offices were on a playhouse square. The offices were in at the time that this relating this story. And I remember being in there, being stunned to see as we were going through redevelopment in Cleveland and moving to conversion of office buildings to, you know, to people living there, I looked out my window, tend to get in the office early. And it was, I don't know, 63630, something like that. And I saw a person walking a dog right outside my office. And that was a weird thing to see at that point because we had just started to start to see people choosing downtown as a place to live. And it really opened my eyes. Then I started to notice more and more at lunchtime, you'd have people sort of, you know, walking down the street and not, you know, real casual guard with their sacks to with a lunch or something like that. And it really began to sort of exhibit itself as a place to live differently than it had before because Cleveland, you know, 20 years ago was just a daytime employment destination. You know, I feel like in Akron, we're beginning to see signs of that literally saw somebody recently, you know, walking their dog in the early morning. Same as street. Yeah, coming down here today. Yeah, walked right right by a person who was walking their dog. Yep. So it is, it's a definitely a trend that is occurring here. It's a similar trend that's occurring across the state. Do we have demand from your perspective or from your colleagues perspective and the people that you talk to for downtown living in Akron right now? And how are we doing with the projects that have been completed? We definitely have demand. Everyone that I've spoken to, there's a demand for this type of conversion. And all the projects that are ongoing, you know, we have good capital stacks that are formed. We have maybe small gaps that we need to be creative about closing. But if there wasn't a demand, they wouldn't be pursuing those projects in the manner that they are. And we have several projects that are, you know, actively seeking funding, you know, as we sit here and speak today. My sense is, and you said this idea of growing 2,000 more doors, meaning 2,000 more apartments or places people live, it feels like we do have some pent up demand there. As you think about the projects, you mentioned a term a couple times capital stack. And some folks may know what that is. But describe capital stack for me and talk about the difficulty of those stacks in this environment. Well, capital stack is just a, you know, stack of funds or money that you need to put together to complete a project. So there's various sources that sort of contribute to the cost of the project. You have, you can have public sources, private sources, generally that can all contribute to it. And it really takes a group effort to complete that stack, including participation from the local municipalities, the state, possibly federal government. And depending on the building, some capital stacks are easier than other capital stacks. Because if you have historic buildings, you can go for historic funds at the state and the federal level, and as well as other funds at the state level. And then, you know, working with your local partners, you can find other sources that are available from different avenues here with the city or other cities to form that capital.
capital stack at the end of the day, you're still probably going to have a little bit of a gap there. And it depends on whether you're looking to contribute your own equity into it or can get a little bit more creative with different type of programs or incentives that are out there with different organizations. Well, my sense is, you know, when you start a project and you look at an opportunity for a project, if it's a good project, you'll start with the ability to borrow, you know, maybe 80% of that project, something like that. Maybe I'm wrong about that number, but it's that gap between sort of what you can easily borrow on the value of the proper or it's improved value and that 100% mark is the tough space, right? Right. Right. So if you have a project arbitrarily as $40 million and you can get 32, how do we cover that other eight? Right. And but in most cases when you're looking at a historic building specifically here in downtown, a lot of them are positioned well for state assistance and federal assistance because of their historic designations that have been in place for some time. And depending on the size of the project, you can have up to 45% of that capital stack contributed by historic tax credits or anything else from the state or the federal government. So that in itself is a huge, huge source of funding for that full project if you were positioned well from historic standpoint. And so those credits that enable the developer to invest money in the building, do the redevelopment, and then end up with the federal government. Do the redevelopment and then end up with a market price, a price for renting that space that will work in this market. Correct. How are prices in this market right now from your perspective? I think the prices are pretty good. You know, I was on a different show earlier this week and they talked about expensive downtown rents. And I questioned him and I said, I really don't think that the rents that you're looking at in downtown are expensive as you think. I think that we're on par. In fact, I think a lot of the downtown entities are subsidizing their rents to compete with these suburbs that are out there. So if you're scared of looking into downtown because you think the rents might be high, I would ask you to look again. And I think that's it. I mean, so we're going to focus on adapting some of these buildings. We've got we've had a run of maybe transactions in our community. And I know some of those are still being worked through and can't be talked about in a lot of detail. But we have had a few buildings transfer at what would be called relatively low prices right if I look at a building of the size of the PNC tower and I see what it transfers for I sort of go wow that's not a whole lot. Right. How come like what are we seeing happening there? Well, I think one of the most important things when you're looking to reposition or adapt a facility into a new use is that there has to be a low entry cost. Okay. So developer or ownership that is looking to get into building can't pay five to ten million dollars for facility because then there's not going to be any equity or capital leftover to be able to reinvest in that project. So what many organizations or governments or whatever the entity is that selling it. I was taking position that if we want new life out of this, we have to be willing to let go of this asset at a lower rate than we expected. Or that we initially want because it's going to facilitate of the revitalization of that building. So in the long term that that building can get reinvested in, revalued, property taxes can flow again on that building. Correct. And then you have the addition of residents that bring other kinds of whether it be sales tax or income tax or other things like that to the community. Right. And I'm glad you brought that up because what a lot of people see in redevelopment is a whole bunch of money going toward a developer to get a building to be active. And what people don't see is that at the end of the day you have people that are in that facility that are paying income tax that are going to your local restaurants buying lunch, buying dinner and all that money is cyclical and being reinvested into our economy. And no, no one sees that X generated a hundred thousand dollars here, but you don't need to see that. That's the investment from the local local side is those people, the income tax and all the other taxes that are generated from it. So the lift to the area that occurs from that investment from that developer into that building. So the game here is making sure that as we redevelop these properties that the public investment in these properties sort of pencils out with what we see as the long term annuity from redevelopment from having new people with incomes, living there and property taxes coming in and those kinds of things. So Chris, as you get started here, I know you're just a few weeks into the job as we said earlier, but are there some projects that you started to sort of learn about or that you're seeing kind of emerge that you're excited about that people should know about. Yeah, the project for the city center building with wealthy are there on South High Street here in the downtown. As a conversion of a former historic office building into about I think around 120 units of residential and that just plays to this 2000 doors that we need here in the downtown that we can you know get that capital stack complete and I believe they're actually nearly complete with their project. They're just waiting on a few other possible awards and that we might be seeing some construction or demo occur on that site here within the next few months. That's amazing. Any other projects that you sort of kicked kicked into as you sort of go around downtown. Yes, yeah, Bartiges, Osborne capitals associated with the Bartiges development there for another historic conversion into around another 120 units and they're on the last stages of their capital stack as well. So right there we have around 240 units of residential that's looking to be injected into the downtown over the next 12 to 18 months. And they've they did some redevelopment here in canal place the area that we're sitting in right now the south end of Main Street and that project is real close to that and just have found great demand for these interesting sort of adapted use former manufacturing facilities that are now apartment building. All these old buildings have wonderful charm and it just it just gives this interesting feeling when you go into it and it's been you know adapted into a new use is just it's fantastic to see. So as we do redevelopment in downtown Akron to create that vibrancy what are some of the biggest challenges we have to overcome you've done this before and you know canton and you I'm sure you have colleagues and you have you follow the practice if you all across the country. But as we think about communities like Akron what are some of the big things you know we're going to face that we got to get our hands around. Well, I think that there's this outside perception about Akron and downtown that it's not safe and you and I walk it every day we're in the streets every day. We experience it and we're we're here and we know that that is a false perception and you generally get that perception from people who never come to downtown. So I would invite those people that don't want to come to downtown to come to downtown and really experience it and understand that what they may believe is you know is not true. It's a huge obstacle for any you know legacy city here in the state and then other general obstacles are just you know finding developers who are interested in coming into the city to spend their money. It's a big proposition to ask somebody to buy a property to put tens of millions of dollars into it to hopefully be successful right so we have to be supportive of those people coming into the downtown and figure out how we can. You know reduce their risk to benefit the city as a whole. You know when you talk about developers I think this city over time is you know it's a real to the small city a lot of people know each other. There's a few developers that work here a lot but I think one of the things that we've talked a little bit about in the past is how do we open up background to other folks other developers people with want to make investments. I think we're sort of a value investment right now is a community in terms of being able to invest in some of these opportunities as we begin to move up this trajectory of growth and opportunity in the region. I think as you see more and more projects come live and be successful you're going to organically draw that a draw those other developers to come in but we also can't stop we can't stop there right we need to be proactive about how we market the city or advertise the city or possible assets that are positioned for redevelopment. So to work with our partners work you know work with anyone else to get contacts to get in front of these other developers that exist even regionally. There's a lot of people that are in Cleveland that don't come too far south so how do I grab a few of those developers up in Cleveland get them introduced to act and get them invested in act and and maybe they buy a few buildings and you know redevelop and reposition those as well so developing a plan for engagement with those folks is critically important and also. Just the natural progression of how accurate will go with these projects that are coming online are going to be really aid in the attraction of other developers in here into the downtown. So much of the work to redevelop a community is dependent on the political leaders the city administration those key stakeholders to county administration being open to development and creating an environment where development can get done easily. I know that in your early discussions you've talked with a number of our public sector leaders feels to me like they're trying to find ways to make that easier smoother more accessible for developers yes I would completely agree I've had numerous meetings with the city and the county and they're all you know everyone's seen in from the same sheet right everybody wants development here in the downtown to happen everybody's interested in facilitating what they are able to facilitate to make a project happen and you know mayor mallick has been. Fantastic to talk to into work with and he is supportive of all these projects that are going on. Suzy the director of economic development is supportive of all these projects going on even even the county executive is supportive of all these projects everyone here wants to see downtown win and that's critically important for making my job easier moving forward is you know finding developers finding projects and you know finding those funds. So if we can have that support from the municipal side moving into this we're going to have a lot easier time getting agren back to where it needs to be and so that takes us back to your role then so you don't work for the government. You don't necessarily what you work for this entity that's this public private partnership and so again we go back to definition economic development I sort of sometimes use this visualization.
of you're familiar with the Olympic sport of curling, right? - Yes. - And so, you know, to get that rock down the lane, you gotta have those folks with sort of the brooms running around there and making a-- - Pollution in the ass for ring. - To me, that's kind of your job, right? I mean, you're the guy with the broom who's sort of trying to get things out of the way to work with that developer or work with that project as an advocate, but also as a making sure it gets done the right way. Is that fair? - Yeah, I would completely agree with that analogy. So if I can quarterback and polish that ice for that curling professional who's going in his gold medal, to get it down, then that's exactly what I need to do. And having, while I am an independent organization, knowing that everyone that I'm working with and that funds and has invested into the Downtown Akron Development Corporation has my back, that makes my job a whole heck of a lot easier. - And then you partner with the Downtown Akron partnership, with a number of other partners, talk about some of the partners you think are critical for us having success in downtown. - Well, I think Downtown Akron partnership is an absolutely critical component here to the downtown. While I talk about my placement in real estate in nuts and bolts and trying to get a real estate asset redeveloped, I can barely back it with the Downtown Akron partnership, is that place maker is making people feel safe. Is bringing fantastic programming here to the downtown. And even if I can get a building full, and they have nothing to do, well, are they going to stay here? - They're not going to work, right? - No, Kimberly's group does a fantastic job. They're going to work hard at activating store fronts, getting program here, and getting something to do for all of these people that we want to attract into the downtown. - Well, yeah, that's the programming has been great. I mean, this summer has been super active, with lock three being redeveloped. And I think our numbers are close to or better than they were pre-COVID at this point. So, I mean, it's great to see all the activity in the evenings and the weekends that are happening here, really because of the programming and the work that they're doing that the city's doing others. - Yeah, I would agree, the fact that I could have, during a talent fest, I walked from my office and get a Deruso sausage. It was a great two days for lunch. I can tell you that. - That's fantastic. So, and then there's a whole bunch of other players that probably don't have the big brand names of like the downtown Akron partnership, but are behind the scenes with financing and support, and just all the pieces that need to happen. - Aside from downtown Akron partnership, you have all the foundations, which are critically involved in the downtown makeup. They might not be directly participating in these, but to have their support to maybe work on market studies or to work on other types of projects and really fill in the philanthropic end. That would be critical for the downtown. And with that, we have the Civic Theater, we have the Rubberduck Stadium, we have all these other organizations that provides direct support for our work here in the downtown and are critical to our existence. The DFA, which with Rachel Brighton Stein there, they are a critical component in really helping capital stack and getting projects through the finish line. - They bring like financing and support. - Correct. - They help with, if you're familiar with pace, pace financing is property assessed clean energy. They provide capital or debt, however you wanna look at it, for green energy improvements to new construction or rehabilitation. And then we also have, - When you say green, we're not talking sort of crazy stuff. We're talking like, you know, LED lighting, we're talking, you know, other ways. - Fish and gray. - Elevators are a pace eligible item. LED lighting, installation for the facility, new roofing, you know, windows, things that make facilities more efficient. - Correct. - More cost, the fact that costs. - Cost less to operate at the end of the day, right? Their energy costs goes down, other efficiency goes up, and you know, that's what we can fund with pace. And then we have the land bank as well, who's a critical component here in downtown. It has great partnerships with the city and the county. And they help provide a lot of nonprofits with, you know, maybe demos or remediation. And they really act as like the, you know, the organization that communicates a lot with the Ohio Department of Development for programs like the Brownfield Remediation or the Demo Grants that are funded through the state, by sentennial. - Let's talk about those, because those are really important programs for us to have access to. You said, "Brownfield Remediation." And you said, "Demolition." Parts of development that people wouldn't necessarily always think about. I mean, we want to adapt to the reuse, but sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have to make those changes and get sites re-ready, if you will. - Yes. So a lot of times what you see with old buildings that they've been, you know, not invested too, or they've been neglected for a long time. And also accompanying that with these old buildings that maybe have been maintained, but they have asbestos. The land bank is a critical part of how we approach addressing those situations, whether we have an old building we need to tear down and we need to find funding for it. The land bank can help facilitate, or we have an old building that we need to reposition and we realize there's a bunch of asbestos in it and we have to take all that out. So using the land bank and applying for the state brown field or the demo dollars and having their support is critical and obtaining those dollars for this community. - So, you know, you left a pretty good gig in Canton to take this role and you were having good success as there, but obviously there's something about this that sort of ignited some passion in you. And just as we sort of wind down here, tell me what excites you most about what you see the next year or two or five years ahead for the work that you've been tasked to do and the work that we're all sort of trying to put our shoulder behind. - Well, I think, you know, looking out one, two, three or four years, maybe five, what excites me the most is one, I love historic downtowns. I love Ohio's legacy cities. You know, they have seen a lot of things in the past, you know, five, 10 years at a, you know, knock them down, but here we are standing back up, right? But to see these old buildings have new life and to be active again and for people to be in them, that's honestly a main driver for me. And not to mention just downtown Akron and Akron as a whole, being a University of Akron alumni, being back, you know, where I spent my college years has been a great feeling, you know, walking the streets again and, you know, walking the university and to be able to, one, position those buildings for new life. And two, the other thing that we haven't really spoken about is being able to support our other brick and mortar entities that might be the retail or food and restaurant and things there, right on South Main, right on South High that also need our love and attention. So how can I maybe help them with projects that they need new HVAC or new flooring or new this or new that and to show them the same love and attention that, you know, we're going to show these developers that are coming in. So we can't forget about the smaller guys in the room. So to be able to see some projects occur there that we can go out and say, hey, we helped, we helped them complete this project for those small guys as well as those big guys as critical. And I think those are the short term things that you're gonna see for the small businesses and then long term, we're going to see here, you know, within 12 to 24 months. And also, you know, with the University of Akron, just how we're gonna be working with them and what we can do specifically how we might interface with them with the polymer industry and all the things that are going on here in the downtown and how we can build off that. - So as you talk about those brick and mortar then companies and those small companies, there are amenities for our community, they're super important. But those amenities let us draw not only residents but just connect us with things like, you know, the students at UA. - Right. You have a population there. We, what, in about three weeks, four weeks, we're gonna have thousands of students come back to campus which is in fact a part of our downtown, right? So how can we as an organization or, you know, in concert with Downtown Akron partnership with the city of Akron get those students to come into our downtown and come to our businesses at lunch by dinner, you know, come to lock three for those events, go to a rubber ducks game, go to a show at the Civic Theater. How can we, how can we really incorporate that population into the downtown life and associated with that too, the Polk's keep building and the possible project there, how we might leverage that and getting, you know, more employees present here in the downtown along South Maine, along South High, that every day for lunch, you know, hopefully they walk right out those doors and, you know, go to Saloncho, go to Crave, go to Diamond Deli, go to wherever else here in the downtown. - I mean, President Niemor has been pretty clear from UA that, you know, he sees the symbiotic relationship between the University of Akron and the city of Akron. And I think it's been said in lots of places that in communities like Akron, you know, the city needs the university as much as the university needs the city and that strong partnership, I think is a big part of creating again, vibrant, senior downtown. - I would agree, to have the leadership at the University of Akron dedicated to the success of downtown as a critical component. That is a relationship that we should maintain. - So Chris, as we wind up here, there are folks listening, I'm sure, who are interested in the success of our downtown. If there are folks that have ideas or want to connect with you or talk with you about projects or opportunities, how do they best get in touch with you? - Well, best get in touch, either email is probably the best, or if you know somebody that might know me, and just have them give you my cell phone number, but my email is
[email protected]. I am very responsive, I always check my emails. My fiancee telling me to get off my phone, I'll probably check an email at some point. But I love my work, I love downtown. So I'm always excited to see what people have to say. - So one of the things I love to end with is, tell us your Akron jam, I know your lifetime Akron resident, so you've got a lot of history to draw on, but a place, an amenity, activity, and event that you'd love others to know about. - My favorite restaurant in downtown, I am a sucker for Curry. - Okay. - So I love cilantro. - Okay. - And I think I've already had Curry twice this week. - So. - Sorry, other restaurants, but I am making my rounds to share my love with every restaurant here in the downtown, but cilantro, the yellow curry specifically, that's my favorite dish. - You know, I really respect what he has done to sort of stay open and stay present throughout everything that we've been dealing with in downtown, whether it be construction or COVID, et cetera. And cilantro is definitely worth a visit. I would say to folks though, when they ask you for your number on spice, be really careful.
because those low numbers are still pretty hot. - I get it too, and that's enough. Don't be deceived. (laughing) Well Chris Hardest, the executive director of the Downtown Akron Development Corporation, thanks for choosing Akron to sort of bring your talents and thanks for the work that you're doing so far. We're looking forward to what we see develop here over the next few years. - Thanks Steve, appreciate it. Appreciate being here. (upbeat music)
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