65. What a Georgetown Admissions Officer Wants from Applicants | Georgetown University

Hello and welcome to Inside the Admission's Office, your one-stop shop for expert advice on the smart way to get in. My name is Ellen and each episode I'll bring you interview with the former admissions officer, a graduate of the top college or admissions expert. These interviews will take you inside the admissions office and we will fill up a high-dense knowledge for our stand experiences and our research tips so you can do your dream school. If you'd like to shout out to our experts, you can send them from free consultation at the link in the description of this episode. Today we'll hear from a healmasoot, the former associate director of admissions at Georgetown University about how admissions works at Georgetown University. Raheel and I will discuss the Georgetown application components and how students might get in mission. I Raheel, how are you today? I'm doing well. Hope you're doing well too. I'm just a start off with, could you tell me more about yourself, about your background? I grew up in Karachi, Pakistan and went to high school here and but decided I wanted to study the U.S. so I applied abroad after doing my SATs and got into a bunch of places but chose to go to Reed College in Portalon, Oregon for a while. I loved it. It was an awesome experience but I felt that I wanted a little bit of the change so I transferred to a smaller school called Allegheny and Meadville, Pennsylvania. I enjoyed myself there, had an undergraduate degree in economics with minors in computer science, math and religion. After Allegheny, I went to work in New York for a major department store as part of their management training program but I always knew I wanted to continue my education so I was fortunate enough to get a fellowship to do an MBA in marketing at American University in Washington. So after American, I did what any good MBA does. I joined the corporate world and I worked for Triple A national headquarters and I worked for a company called the Forbes Consulting Group and then along came this opportunity at Georgetown admissions that, you know, I just had to jump at. I really enjoyed my education throughout high school and college and I just wanted to get involved in education all over again despite my MBA. So I thought I was nuts and I met with various people at Georgetown and I was hired as director of research at the undergraduate admissions office and the rest is, they say, is history because that started a 30 plus year career in education on both sides of the aisle. I started out as a director of research for one and six months. I was associate director of admissions. I was working with primarily students from the New York area but also, you know, it's a national applicant who's also working with different students as well. It was fortunate enough to be the chair of the Business School Committee and the transfer committee. It worked with the athletic department, worked with alumni. I really enjoyed Georgetown. I mean, it was an exceptional experience. Charles Deacon was the dean and still the dean is an institution and taught me everything I know about admissions and I was fortunate enough to meet people like Christophe Gouden-Dog who is now a Duke or a belt that Simmons from Harvard, headspenser for Michigan and others who I also learned from. So that's where my college background in admissions came from. And then I went to the Parking College of Art as the director of admissions but they didn't necessarily need somebody like me. So I chose to come back to my home country and work in education here. And for the past 20 years, I've been on the other side of the aisle working with high school students as a principal and helping them with the academics and universities and so on. And just enjoy working with young people. It's a privilege. I work with ingenious and work with students from all over the world, which is a really interesting and rewarding opportunity. I love here in Karachi. I have my family here. I'm an avid sport person and I love to read. And I've been to that a little bit about my life history and how I got into education and why I enjoyed it. And so we counsel our students a lot about school fit. So when we're thinking about school fit when it comes to Georgetown, what kind of students is Georgetown looking for outside of just like, you know, your average, high achieving student. And then what attributes might students explore or showcase when it comes to school fit for Georgetown? Georgetown has some distinct schools, right? You have you have there some very distinct, you know, areas of concentration in Georgetown. And the fit is different for each one. If you're applying to the college and you're applying for the sciences, you're looking for obviously people with strength in those areas, but also well-rounded academic background, high achievers are definitely sought after. If I'm also looking for more, you know, the Jesuit part of Georgetown looks at the whole person because at the end of the day, that is the focus of the Georgetown education. So every school, if you're applying to the business school, they may be more inclined towards quantitative and global view, whereas the college is more focused on academic strength, you know, within the college. And they may be, you might look at the school of linguistics and if you're interested in languages and related things might apply there, there's a school of nursing, if you're interested in that. And, you know, again, they're looking for people who genuinely have an interest in nursing. And then of course, is the school of foreign service, which is looking for people with a global intent to serve, whether it's there, you know, the US or another country. And so everything basically that fits into the categories of each school, whether it's your activities, whether it's your essays, whether it's your academic, they kind of have to fit there and you also have to connect to the school. And we're going to talk about that later with the essays and things, but you really have to connect to the individual school that Georgetown to be able to see admissions committee because every school has a different admissions committee. And they look at a lot of these things and they're very particular about it. So Georgetown in general is looking for high achieving students who have a genuine desire to be at the university. And they can demonstrate that through many different vehicles, whether it's the essay or the interview or the recommendations or visits to campus and meetings with admissions officers who travel all over the country and they're joined travel, you know, opportunities for other universities that Georgetown does. So it's a holistic approach. There is no magic formula to admissions that highly competitive schools and I think the Georgetown in particular focuses on the high school record. They certainly look at testing, but the high school record is primary as they're focused and then they look at the non academic side almost equally as the academic side, but balance is very important. And it's easy for students to view all the elite universities is kind of the same. I'll top 20, I'll top 10, I'll Ivy League. But what would you say makes Georgetown unique compared to other elite schools? I mean, there are some obvious, you know, it has its own application. It's not really test optional anymore. You know, what else do you think makes us stand out? Well, what I always told kids was location, location, location, you know, Georgetown has the privilege of being a real college campus right in bang in the middle of one of the greatest cities in the world with opportunities that are just boundless. You have other cities as well that have a lot of college students there and certainly Washington does as well with many universities close to Georgetown. So there is a dynamic between the college students, whether socially or academically, the opportunity to be in a city where every country is represented every institution, whether it's the world bang or, you know, the US institutions and political institutions. Everybody's represented there and just as the city itself is so vibrant and you know, it's part of the huge metro area with Virginia, Maryland and of course the district. So it's not just Georgetown itself, which is an amazing experience to begin with. It's around Georgetown and the opportunities created for students, whether it's for learning for pre professional activities for coursework or anything else. I mean, I think that's what really sets Georgetown apart because you are. I always found that our students took advantage of Washington and that being a unique city gives them a unique place. The other part is the Jesuit identity. I mean, I think that, you know, most people don't understand it but and to be honest, when I got there, it was a little bit of a mystery to me. But as I was at Georgetown, you know, it is honestly a caring place. The admissions process is a very human process by the IndieCon and you know, the entire community. I mean, it really is a community that encourages individuality that respect various points of view because that is the way, you know, Jesuit education is. It is to educate the whole person. And so I think that is a very unique part of Georgetown that most people mistake for a one dimensional, you know, or it's a Catholic University. Well, yes, it is a Jesuit Catholic University, but the breadth of what the Jesuit education is truly represented at Georgetown. and how you did it. I have met with kids from various backgrounds who have been very, very appreciative of the environment. And I think that really is a bonus. And of course, Washington itself is such a wide open and inclusive community that I think those are all things that in my opinion, said Georgetown apart. - And students applying to Georgetown tend to also apply to other schools in DC because of location, they're interested in IR. Are there anything, or is there anything you would say is worth noting that says Georgetown apart is not from the obvious from other DC universities like American. - Yeah, I mean, I think one respects all the institutions of education because they all have something to offer to their students. And, you know, American, I'm a graduate of American university. So I know that well, I know George Washington is there and not too far. You have George Mason and others University of Maryland. And they're all great universities. It's just that when you talk about Georgetown and the ethos of the place, the Jesuit education, the alumni, the connection with the community and, you know, the prominent faculty. - I think that does give Georgetown students a little bit of an edge to obviously the rankings help. But I, you know, I always told students who were looking at Georgetown and other schools, whether they are in the DC area or otherwise. I think you use the word fit. And that's really what it's all about. You want students to be happy for four years, be fulfilled academically, but also socially to be challenged to grow as human beings as well as students. And I think that is what I would say is take the close look. And, you know, Georgetown isn't a fit for everybody as wonderful as it is. And if it's not, that's fair enough. But I always found it hard to tell students that, well, you know, look elsewhere because I always find so much a Georgetown to offer that it really truly was an amazing experience. And I think, you know, pretty much every student that I spoke with, that was at Georgetown, found that exceeded expectations. And I think that is a measure of the faculty and the leadership and, you know, the president of Georgetown is an amazing, amazing human being. I mean, he's incredibly learned, but the amount of care towards his students, Dean Deacon, I mean, you know, he is Georgetown. I mean, he personifies Georgetown, he graduated and he's never left. And when his love for Georgetown and the love of many people who've been there for years, I think filtered sound to the students and the community. And I think it's just a wonderful environment, not that others aren't. But I do think there is an element that, you know, you don't have a Dean Deacon or Jack DeGioia or people like that and the Jesuit score there for all the students, not just, you know, the students who are Catholic, but, you know, I have met Jesuits who are incredible academics who are wonderful guides and work with students in so many different capacities and just amazing, amazing people. So I think that's what really is the nature of Georgetown and with all due respect to all the other universities around. I just think they provide an environment that is unique. - And so students can apply early action or they can apply a regular decision. How would you recommend students make that decision? So, you know, if I'm your student, what are the factors that you're looking for for me from my application to decide whether I should apply early to Georgetown, whether I should use that early application somewhere else, et cetera? - Yep. Well, my first question is always, you know, it says early action, but I always try to tell them to think of it as sort of early decision because when you're looking at a place like Georgetown, which has gotten increasingly competitive over the years, and as I said, it's a very human process. Obviously you have to have the academic and the testing and all those the recommendations and the transcript to be able to compete. But I think the one thing that's very, really valued at Georgetown is the connection to the university and how serious you are about coming to Georgetown. You know, if it's, if the feeling comes across in your application that, oh, you know what, I'm, this is just, you know, I'm applying early because that's what I think I should do. As opposed to sharing why you're so connected to Georgetown that you would want to apply early. And that's when I talked to students about applying early to Georgetown, I asked them why they're passionate about Georgetown because I think that's what really, you know, of all the kids that get admitted early. I think that is one factor that really stands out. You know, they're all exceptional students usually. They all have wonderful activities and non-academics, but it's the passion for Georgetown and what Georgetown represents, knowing the showing that they know Georgetown and what the ethos of the place is and what opportunities are available, both at Georgetown and in the area. So I think any student who seriously is thinking in Georgetown is at the top of their list should definitely consider applying to Georgetown, but they must back up their application with a genuine, you know, level of interest. Because, you know, as I'm sure most admissions officers or admissions associate directors and other professionals will tell you, over time, once you get experience, you tend to read applications and figure out who's really interested at that level and who is just sort of doing it because they're going through the application process. I mean, we're not perfect and we don't read minds, but, you know, as I said, it is a human process. So you get, you kind of get good at those things and you're not always right, but that feeling that you get from an application whether or not a student is truly committed. And I think that's probably true of every competitive institution because you're committing a space to a young person and therefore not committing a space to somebody else who's probably equally good as good as an academic being as a as compelling a case. So you have to be very careful. It's a very big responsibility. And I think all of us at Georgetown and probably every admissions officer at a competitive university does take that very seriously. So as I mentioned previously, Georgetown is no longer test optional and they're kind of an outlier there. They do have a policy that if students don't quote have access to an open testing center, a form will be provided to you after the application due date to explain why you're unable to access a test center. So my first question is just about, you know, why are they test optional? They're like I said, an outlier in this, it's more understandable when we think of like a STEM focus school like MIT needing testing. So why Georgetown, why not testing? And then also how much leeway do you think students have for this exception, you know, if they're, maybe they like procrastinated taking the SAT and then they were going to take it in October, their October test, they got canceled, now they can't submit. Do you think this will have a good shot at Georgetown? - I think, you know, Dindee can with his experience kind of knows what's best for evaluating applicants to Georgetown and you know, with his experience and his absolute command of Georgetown admissions for so many years, one has to respect his opinion on the process and whether it's not being part of the common application or not being test optional, I think he has a particular vision and given that he's an institution at Georgetown and his love for Georgetown and his connection to Georgetown is just unimaginably close. So when I think about those things, I have a very simple view of it that I think he is very particular about the process of selecting students or Georgetown and this is what he feels is in the best interest of the institution and the students because, you know, Charlie cares very deeply about the applications that come in and he's very particular about their, how they're handled and how they're evaluated and so I think this is all part of his heat thus of caring about the process and as far as exception, as I said, from the outset that Dean Deacon has always told us this is a human process that we have to be fair and accommodating within reason. If there are genuine issues as the caveat in the test optional policy, non-test optional policy at Georgetown says, if you can legitimately prove to Georgetown that there was an issue, then I'm sure that we'll consider it and not just advantage in the process, you know, support from your college counselor or wherever it comes from that wouldn't tell Georgetown admissions and look, this is an unusual situation, et cetera, et cetera would certainly be taken into consideration, but again, I would strongly encourage students to meet the criteria set forward because an even playing field is always a good place to compete for places that's competitive at Georgetown. - So let's look at the admissions process more specifically. So back in your time in the Georgetown admissions office, let's imagine I submit my application, I'm in your New York region, so they give you my application. What does your process look like of reviewing that application? How are you reviewing it? What are you thinking about? Which components are you looking at first? - Well, what happens is that the reason the reasons are assigned to people is so that you know the high school. So for example, I did travel to Georgetown, level up to a lot of places and even in New York. But I primarily focused on Long Island. So I visited those high schools. I got to know the counselors. I developed relationships with them. So when I got applications, let's say from Garden City High School, and we just get pretty much the top 20% of the class applied to Georgetown. We'd read those applications as a group, and they'd be divided across schools and so on. But the first read always just would be with somebody who understood the context of the high school and the geographical location so that we could provide input to the admissions committee. The admissions committee guides all decisions. And so there are-- it is a complex process. But it's also a human process that focuses on all aspects of the application. There's not one piece of the application that doesn't get looked at-- well, at least unless you want to get into trouble indeed. So you look at everything, whether it's the essays, whether it's the activity list, and it's discussed at the region level, it's discussed at the committee level. And it's a multi-layered process, which looks at pretty much everything and tries to come up with the good decisions, as best as you can with such an amazing applicant pool that you get. So processes is very straightforward. We get so many pieces of information. They're compiled and files are made. And files are individually evaluated. They're very student-is-evaluated individually, and also within the context of the high school in their region, and then presented to the committee or process through directions given by the committee, and then move through the process. That's how it generally works. But sometimes you could have anywhere from three to eight people reading an individual file, depending on where and how you get directed into the various chains of the process. But I would say that it is a very robust process, but it's also a very interesting process. I used to love reading applications from my region and often picked up the phone to call counselors to ask them about individual students if I had a question. You get to know high schools. You get to know how rigorous their grading is. And I think Georgetown takes advantage of all that information. And that perspective when they're evaluating applications. So it is a complex process for sure. And does Georgetown track demonstrated interest? I know that top schools don't generally track it officially, but that obviously school fit and showing your interest to still important in the application. We all like to be liked, right? So in keeping with that, if you visited campus or you've had an interview or you've met an alumnus or you've attended a parent meeting, all those things can help demonstrate your interest and commitment to Georgetown. And I think that certainly, while it doesn't formally give you an edge in the process, but as human beings, we all take into account intangibles and include it in fluency somebody when they're making a judgment call on a borderline case trying to decide between two or three people, possibly. But yeah, I mean, I think Georgetown is, in some cases, formally aware of interest. In other cases, anecdotally aware of interest. Either through alumni or our own students who come in and talk about friends or applicants from their school or counselors talking to us about it. So yeah, I think we do what Georgetown does and have an eye on that and it varies, depending on the amount of interest and the legitimacy interest that a student demonstrates, cancer may be viewed as a positive. And which aspects are in components of the application can students use to showcase and emphasize school fit? - Well, I think the essays give you an opportunity to do that. I mean, there are so many opportunities there. The alumni interview also is a real opportunity to do that. You can come on campus for a tour. You can meet an admissions officer. So there are lots of different ways. But I think the essays and the interview, the alumni interview are probably the most, I guess used vehicles by students to indicate why the thing Georgetown is the right place for them. - Do you specific advice for that interview? How students can best showcase themselves in the interview? - Yeah, you know, be yourself. This is not a test. This is not, the alumni are, since they're assigned from your region, they're already in your corner. You know, their advocate's for you. What they're looking for is again, that genuine commitment to Georgetown, knowledge of Georgetown, and why you want to be there, what connects you to Georgetown, why you want to study what you want to study, and what would Georgetown help you do towards your future goals? What do you hope to achieve while you're at Georgetown and beyond, you know, things of that nature. The alumni speaking are, it's very rare that I ever saw an alumni report that wasn't supported by a student. Of course, there's degrees of support and, you know, interviews as students perform better than others, certainly that is reflected in there. But I would say that every alumni interview starts with a positive attitude. And so you should as well be real, be honest, be forthcoming. And you know, when you talk about your interest, your genuine interest, and the genuine passion you have, it comes through. You know, I think as we all have worked with young people, it's very easy to see when a young person is talking about something they're passionate about as opposed to when they have to actually think about things and answer in a strategic manner. I think, you know, certainly some questions, depending on the interviewer, because they're very idiosyncratic in certain ways, and you know, there's certain similarities in all of them. But I think for the most part, if you just argue yourself and have done some level of research about Georgetown, and why you'd like to be there, and what's important to you about the community, and knowing a little bit about what the special things about Georgetown and the area are. I think all those things can help, but I think most students now already do that. So the main thing is just be yourself, and express yourself, and be honest, and open, and positive, you know, positivity, and being and smiling and being happy and excited, that excitement is also, you know, is something that is infectious. - Are there specific misconceptions that you encounter either about Georgetown in general, or about applying to Georgetown? - Well, you know, I think, you know, just various things come up from time to time, but I don't know that people have misconceptions, but I think, you know, there are some, I would say, opinions that, you know, might, you know, especially with the Jesuit identity of Georgetown people might have a misconception about that, but as I said before, I cannot think, you know, of a more inclusive and open community, regardless of your fate. So I think that might be a misconception. I think people mistake the size of Georgetown, you know, as, you know, being really large, when they see this huge, beautiful campus, they think that, oh, this is gonna be so many students and huge classes and things like that, when actually that's not true. The connection with faculty is very, very prominent there. So I think, you know, it's a big school in stature, but it's not a big school, in my opinion, for every individual student. But I don't think that that many misconceptions, because as I said, you know, one thing Georgetown admissions seeks to do, and Georgetown as a community seeks to do, is to be honest about who they are and what they seek to do for their students and the publications, everything that you see. I think shows that. So yeah, I mean, you know, the people might think, oh, it's located in Washington and the School of Foreign Service is there. So it's, you know, it's focused totally on foreign service, but over the years, the people have learned to respect the school of business, you know, the different aspects of the college and the nursing school and other things. So I think that, you know, even though I have, I love Georgetown a while ago, I'm still, you know, I still watch what's going on because I feel like I'm part of the place. And so I think students just need to engage with Georgetown and they'll know the reality and the misconceptions will go away. And the best thing they can do is talk to Georgetown students. You know, that they do remove whatever misconceptions they have about the place because I think those are the people who can speak most honestly about the place and of course, the alumni. - And the admissions office can connect students with current or can connect applicants with current students? Is that correct? - Yes, there is the Georgetown admissions ambassador program, which again, focuses on students from your home areas, but also in general, and you can connect to students. They have many different ways to connect and I encourage students to contact the admissions office, whether they want to visit, they want to meet students. You know, the tours all led by students, you know, the admissions officers might do the information session, but the tours all student led, the Georgetown admissions ambassador program is very active and there are many other, you know, programs. as well, the Blue and Gray and others that help students get a sense of what Georgetown's all about. And of course, sports that Georgetown is another big part of it and a lot of kids get to learn about Georgetown through sports. And so I think those are things, certainly, that are there for students. And one other good way for students to learn about Georgetown is all the pre-pollege programs in Georgetown offering, summer programs and others that are really wonderful experiences. I've had many students who've done the Georgetown programs and they, you know, they just love them. You know, they're just, they're real opportunity to meet some incredibly interesting people and unique opportunities that you won't get many places to teach in to Georgetown. How does participation in those pre-college programs affect acceptance odds? Obviously, it's not like, oh, you don't pre-college or in. Maybe they're more of like the like, like oblique, like, oh, okay, like it doesn't get you an automatic in, but like you do get exposed to the school. So now you have more like, it's a simple thing to write about in your school specific efforts. Absolutely. Look, that's, I mean, when you can talk about being on campus and you can talk about specific things that you enjoyed about the college and why you connect to the place, I think that's always helpful, you know, whether however you do it, as you said, it does, it's not like, oh, well, they came to the pre-college programs there and no, it's not like that. Yeah, it does give you an insight into the place having lived there and you can talk more eloquently about that and more genuinely about actually having lived on campus and experiencing the community. And I think that has value, you know, and so I would definitely recommend that and, you know, I wouldn't make it the focus of my application, but I certainly make sure I got it in somewhere. And we already mentioned this as well about Georgetown being an outlier in some specific ways and then one of those is that they aren't on the common app. They do have their own application. So for students, we're probably assuming most students, the majority of their schools are on the common app, then maybe neither they're applying to some UCs in MIT, but is there anything they should be aware of that they should be on the lookout for about Georgetown's specific application? Well, that Georgetown is looking for some very specific things, you know, as I said, it's a very human process. So they want to get to know you. I mean, if you look at the supplemental essays, the three supplemental essays are very clearly directed at getting to know you as a human being, getting to know what your interests are and highlighting who you are with respect to counts and skills about the activities that you've done. And, you know, basically giving you a blank canvas to write the third part, which is, you know, talking about yourself. They want to know more about you and your own words. Because I think, you know, that is, as I said, it's a very human process. It's a very human place. The whole, you know, it's a community that values, you know, the interesting things that our applicants brought to us. And I think that, you know, was very meaningful. I mean, I'll tell you that I chaired the business committee and I, as I'd say, I told you in the introduction, I have a lot of sports. So in the committee, every time there was a student who had sports, it'd be like, oh, we know Roheal's going to give them good marks, right? And we had Dean Ann Merrick-Pusta, whose kids always were great swimmers. So whenever we saw a swimmer, it would be like, oh, Dean Ann Merrick is going to be very supportive of this kid. So it's a human process. And when you get to know these students at an individual level and you can connect to what they're saying about themselves through the essays and you learn about, you see them through the eyes of the teachers and their counselors. You know, apart from all the numbers and the grades that you get, they really become human humans that we discuss at that level. And honestly, there are some really robust discussions when you're dealing with scarce numbers and too many students that we love. And so these are opportunities. You know, the essays are real opportunities, I think, to share who you are with the committee and they do matter, no doubt they matter. George Sean has three supplemental essays. I wanted to just go through each of them and you could tell me what a successful response would look like. So the first prompt, it is 250 words and it asks the student to indicate any special talents or skills that they possess. So what does good response look like? I would pick something that's not already in the application because the second prompt asks you specifically to pick something in the application. So I'd say here that, you know, you may have mentioned something tangentially in your essay or maybe even written an essay about it, but focus on something that really sets you apart. It doesn't matter what it is, but you know, this is sort of a rule of thumb for every supplemental essay, whether it's George Sean or otherwise. Read what the question says. The question says, indicate any special talents or skills you possess. It does not specify that it has to be, you know, what everybody might think is special or talent. It's what it means to you. So you know, it's asking you to share of yourself and it's only 250 words. So it's not like you can provide a huge preamble to it and get through it. So it's like get into it, get into the middle what you want to say. Talk about why this is, you know, what you have achieved, why this is special to you and what it is that, you know, in your opinion makes it special about you. And I think that's really what this first prompt is looking for. There is no can. Okay, this is going to be a good answer because every kid, every student applying, we have something different to say here. And so look for something unusual, look for something that really does set you apart and that you feel is a strength for you or is special about you because that's what they're trying to get at. The second prompt is, it says it is approximately half a page, single spaced and as you reference they ask, briefly discuss the significance to you of the school or summer activity in which you've been most involved. Here what I would say is that, you know, when you fill out the application, they ask you to list the certain number of activities in the order of importance to you. And this doesn't necessarily always have to be the activity you list as number one, but it should be one of the top ones that you feel most stand for if you've achieved an outside in the classroom. And remember, they're asking not necessarily, oh, I was a president, there's like, what does what is the significance of, you know, the need to you? So yes, certainly state that yes, you know, I was president of X, Y, Z club. But what does it mean to you? That is the hook here is that, you know, you need to express why that was important to you, what it meant to you and possibly how, you know, it impacted your experience or how you are going to take it forward or something like that. Obviously it's half the page that's not like you can write a whole bunch, but always focus on that. It can't just be like this and I did this and I did this and I did this. That's not what they're looking for. They said the significance to you, discuss the significance to you. So focus on that. And it should be one of the more important activities, something that highlights, you know, something that maybe you've done for a longer period of time, something that where you've achieved leadership or honors or, or, you know, whatever stands out to you as the most important thing that you want to represent here with respect to significance. And then finally, the third prompt that is approximately one page single space, they ask, as Georgetown is a diverse community of the admissions committee would like to know more about you in your own words, please submit a brief essay either personal creative which you feel best describes you. For me as an applicant, I think this one would throw me off like the whole personal work created. Is this supposed to be the version of the personal statement? Like I'm already kind of stressed. I'm not applying to Georgetown. Yeah, look again, I think young people tend to read fear into this. This is not a fear thing. This is truly what it's saying. They want to know more about you because what are we getting? We're getting a high school transcript. We're getting recommendations. We're getting testing. We're getting all kinds of application things. This is your opportunity to speak directly to the admissions committee and say, this is who I am. This is what made me who I am. This is some aspect of my life that I'd like you to know about, you know, whatever it is that as they say, you best describes you. There is no right or wrong answer. This is an opportunity for you to be open and show who you are. So I would say, you know, yeah, I think it's intimidating when you have such an open blank canvas in front of you as opposed to, well, this is going to go to answer. I would say that this is an opportunity for you as an applicant to just showcase who you are. Talk about what you're passionate about or talk about an experience that made you think a certain way or has contributed to who you are and to, you know, to your life in some way. And I don't think you have to complicate this. I think it has to be, you know, as I said, with the interview, honest, it has to be something that is just very straightforward. Yes, well written, well presented with the beginning, middle and end. It's one page, single space. So you have a lot of room to introduce things to have a major theme. and a conclusion, make sure that there is a train of thought throughout the essay that is clear and consistent. But just talk about yourself and in whichever way you decide to go with your personal, it's creative. Just make sure that the person reading gets to know who you are and that insight really could make a difference. So I think this is my favorite part when I'm helping students because I think it allows them to shine and really talk about themselves. And sometimes it's their vulnerable part, sometimes it's their powerful part. It just depends on what part of their life they want to present to showcase who they are. Is it possible for students when we're thinking about trying to make the whole process of applying to all these schools more efficient to repurpose their personal statement from the common app for the SSA. Sure, it's a judgment call, you know, depending on which prompt to use for the common app, you know, the rule of thumb is if it if it describes who you are and and and you know answers the question about describe you in your own words, right? And so absolutely, I mean, you could take you could start with that and customize it and and add on to it. So yeah, you could repurpose another essay, but carefully so I mean, because you know, you don't want to you don't want it to be seen as being purpose. You want it to be seen as I made the effort to write this essay. And so I think it shows I think as admissions professionals, we read enough essays to know whether you know, and again, we're not always right, but I think you have a pretty good sense of that, whether it's a repurposed essay or not. But no, I mean, there's no harm and there there's no jeopardy attached to repurposing an essay because as you said, students are blind to multiple universities. It's natural that there is going to be some repurposing of essays, but I would say that depending on the nature of the essay, yeah, you could do that. And then they also have school specific essay prompts and those are also one page single space and those are for the they have the humanities college for and service college nursing and business. I won't read all four of those essays, but they're basically kind of like, you know, why are you playing to this school like by nursing, why the school, why business, why the school, any advice on approaching these. And then it goes back to what I said about, you know, the process and and and what they're looking for. They're looking for people who know the schools individually because you're applying to one of the the schools at Georgetown. So you should know that school, you should know what the ethos of that school is, what it seeks to give its students and they say that in the prompt for each school is that this is what you know the school of foreign services looking for students to get from it. And then to it kind of so I think, you know, again, just like with every essay that you write, make sure you answer the palm and in this case, it is, why would you be a fit for this school given what they have said in the bomb. And you show your depth of research about the school and and you know it's the question you asked about fit. Here's where you talked about your fit and and give examples of, you know, this is where you could join a pre college program that you did in the business school about leadership and how that impacted your decision. And then to talk about a specific course or a professor who's doing research that you want to get involved in, but you know just don't drop a mention in with our substantiating it and supporting it because again that that seems more strategic than genuine. And I think this is really an opportunity just like prompt number three with the describe yourself in your own words. This is your opportunity to say, hey, this is why I want the college or the school of foreign service or nursing or linguistics or the MacDonna school. I mean, this is, this is where you say, hey, I want you and let them understand why. So I think it should be pretty straightforward though because most students applying to Georgetown have a very clear understanding. Now they are some joint programs as well. And cross schools like MacDonna and foreign service has programs that are joined and others and you can talk about them and you apply to one and you can into and actual is that you've researched and and have a genuine goal in mind. So all those things matter. And so when you're being read in committee, you're read by the school and so they know and so if you show what you know, then they say, hey, wait a minute, you know this, this young person knows what we're about and they understand so that does that does help. And so they do have the option to come or to submit an art supplement. Georgetown does state that, you know, quote, exemplary arts talent and it is reviewed by people in the department's music theater art dance. Do you maybe want to define what they mean by exemplary talent and then how are those departments communicating with the admissions officers? How are these supplements affecting the admissions decision? Well, look, it depends on what you apply for and and and at what level you've achieved, right? And and I think the rule of thumb is if this is something you feel that really truly sets you apart as opposed to, hey, you know, I can draw and I want to show you I can draw it and or I can, you know, sing and, you know, I've done dance or whatever. And if you have a talent that is demonstrated through achievement and you can share those achievements and a portfolio of that sort that basically enhances your application, then yes, by all means go ahead and send it. And then it's really a great opportunity to go through the admissions office to the department and then it is discussed and how much impact it has really depends on the quality and the and and the depth of what is there and how what you're applying for and how it connects with that. And then you can see that all candidacy that is also could be important because you know there are students who have done exceptional things and you know you could be a scientist who is an exceptional musician and and you know you you've done competitions on, you know, with the playing the piano or something and that could set you apart as hey wait a minute, you know this. So I think you have to be careful when you submit additional materials beyond what the application asks for because again they have to be meaningful they have to be substantial and you know you can. And if you're not sure you can ask your counselor if they feel or you know again you could theoretically shoot an email to the admissions officer and say hey this is kind of what i'm thinking do you think it might be worthwhile and you may get a response there as well. So you have a lot of listeners who aren't applying to college now but you know their eighth and eighth tenth eleventh graders with their parents of underclassmen do you have specific advice for younger students who you know Georgetown is their dream school you know they want to move to DC they want to be the diplomat how can they prepare what can they do now so they can develop themselves. So this is where we start off first with a high school record make sure that you challenge yourself within the context of your high school and that you take courses that sort of relate and yes you're if you're ninth grade or so on you're starting the exploration of where you might want to be in five years. So start exploring taking those courses you know challenge yourself with a piece and honors forces take the AP tests do well on them you know PSATs are always good you know earning honors participating in activities earning leadership positions you know patting the resume by 20 activities is not. So the value will be the goal is the depth of your activities that you did something in ninth grade you started you remember of a club in ninth grade and in tenth grade you became more responsible in eleventh grade you became vice president and in twelfth grade you became president that shows a progression that shows a commitment to particular activity and and you know the common application or the Georgetown application itself highlights those things allows you to highlight them so build the non academic profile and the academic profile. So if you are a science student try to get some research or try to do some programs in the summer there are many opportunities to demonstrate that side of you you know whatever it is that you can do to demonstrate your interest in possibly the major you want to take certain personal growth is important and you know from eight ninth grade onwards you can start picking with universities because they have pre college programs that reach all the way down to the sixth and seventh grade obviously some are online some are in person. And with the cost involved you know certainly there are limitations there are opportunities and their online opportunities you know they're not very many good things you can say about the covid years but the one thing is that it created an online community that is far more robust and extensive than it was prior to covid so now there are opportunities for young people online that did not exist previously. Both within from the colleges and outside the colleges international competitions national competitions so you can help yourself by involving yourself in some meaningful competitions and activities beyond the academic but academics always always come first high school records do. matter. It's not just all about the SAT, the SAT or the ACT is a factor, the AP tests are a factor, recommendations, essays, everything matters. So the more effort that you can put towards selecting carefully your curriculum, challenging yourself, taking AP courses and other courses that show that you are a powerful academic applicant. Diversity is important, not, it's great if you're a science student to take all the sciences, but throwing a couple of other things so that the admissions officer can see, hey, wait a minute, they also took AP sociology or AP economics as well, so it shows that they have a broader mindset, because when you get to college, you get to explore a lot of different things as well. So that's how I think you should approach it. And, you know, again, don't go after activities strategically, go after activities that you actually enjoy and that you want to take on for a long period of time, because those are the ones you'll be able to talk about passionately, those are the ones where you'll earn the right to be in leadership positions in 11th and 12th grade, and they will show up in your application and in your essays as valuable experiences that you've had. And so lots of different things, some students work, work is also a very important thing that you can talk about. So, you know, just put your best foot forward by doing a lot of interesting things and hopefully enjoying them along the way, not just for college, but because they are good experiences for you. And do you have any additional words of wisdom for students? I think this episode will come out in about like two weeks, so it'll be past the early action deadline, but it'll be right in time for students who are working on their regular Georgetown application. So, you know, with them in mind, especially any words of wisdom, advice, love, comfort. Well, this is what I say to all young people, you know, you all have to believe in yourself and what you have done. And when you apply to competitive school, understand that every single one of you could probably go there and be successful. My standing joke with the dean was that, you know, I could go to the top of the building and toss the application folders off the side, draw an arbitrary line and pick the 1400 kids who fall to the right of that line. And I'd probably be just as happy with that 1400, that cohort of 1400 as I would with all the admissions process we go through, right? So, this is not a referendum or judgment on your ability or your potential or what you've achieved. The admissions process by the very nature of things and unfortunately over the past few years, it has gotten even more competitive. It is the numbers game. Admissions officers are just constantly torn apart inside making these decisions. I know it's very easy for people to think of admissions officers as robotic who just, you know, oh, I'm going to take this one and I'm not going to take this one. I mean, I'll tell you a lot of us and I speak for myself, certainly, we agonized about decisions we made and how those decisions impacted young people. But the important thing to remember is that at the end of the day, you're going to you're going to end up at a school that you love. If it's Georgetown, great, if it's not, you'll still find your way and that, you know, make the best of whatever opportunity you get. Don't let college admissions be a referendum on your achievement or who you are or your potential. Heck, we all know there are very successful people who are billionaires who didn't even graduate from college, right? So perspective is important. You know, the night before you get that letter, whether it says yes or no, you think of yourself as somebody who's great and fits in well, whether it's at Georgetown or MIT or Harvard or Duke or any one of these great institutions that you apply to. And just because you get a letter that says, hey, we couldn't accommodate you. It does not diminish who you are. It doesn't, it doesn't speak to what you've achieved. And yes, in the moment when you're not happy, that's where you start going, you know, the most difficult conversations I had with parents were when they said, tell me why my son or daughter didn't get into Georgetown. And I would reassure that might say, listen, there's, it's not what your son or daughter didn't do. It's what we couldn't do is take everybody who applied. And we had to make tough decisions and we do our best. And as human beings, we we're not perfect. But we try to make good decisions based on the guidance of people like Charlie Beacon was in, you know, he's incredibly knowledgeable and as I said, he truly does care. I mean, he cares about students who are applying to Georgetown. You know, he has an incredible relationship with the alumni. You know, he as dean of admissions has so much connection with high school counselors that it, you know, the process can't help but being human. So yeah, you know, of course, you know, probably 80% plus of students apply to Georgetown end up being disappointed. But don't be. I mean, it has, it is not diminishing who you are or what you've achieved. It's just because it's simply not enough space to take all the wonderful kids that apply. And that, you know, if I were to say anything to you, whether it was about Georgetown or any other place, please don't let that bring you down or feel that you are any less than who you are. I have yet to meet an applicant on either side on the high school side that I helped apply or on the college side that I evaluated as, you know, an admissions professional that I didn't see as somebody who had potential to succeed may not be a fit for the particular institution that I was at, but I knew that they would find a way. And I hope that maybe that gives you a little bit of perspective as you approach the process. Other than that, you know, just do the simple things, honesty, passion, sharing your genuine thoughts, meeting deadlines, making sure you present things neatly in an organized fashion. I know your counselor is another guide soon. You will tell you those things, but those things do matter because as I said, we are human beings. When we see a neatly presented application that is what organized, it does say something to us. You know, when somebody meets deadlines and makes the effort to send things in on time, that speaks to us. Intangibles are important in the process. And so hopefully, you know, I have given you enough insight that will allow you to feel better about the process, regardless of what the end result might be. Thank you so much for joining us today, Raheel. I'm Charlotte. If you've any questions or would like to post a topic for a future episode, go ahead and give us a follow and send us a message on social media with the #Hashtag inside emissions. That's all for now! Thank you for listening and I hope you'll join me next time as we continue our journey inside the admissions office. [Music]