WH125: Keaton Nankivil; Former Wisconsin Bucky Badger and Pro Athlete turned Venture Capitalist joins

Okay, we're good. You good? Okay. Yep. Let's hit it up. All right. I'm just gonna do my intro We are back the whiskey hue bringing you the latest in tech business and startups mixed with whiskey and a ton of sarcasm Q the music Welcome back everybody. This is part of the PROP series released through the whiskey hue stream We hits our 14 billion global audience just kidding mostly US and Europe and pockets of Asia and growing so Telefriend to tell a friend and get us out there in in the mix You know what if you've been in for the last three four years I love talking about investing and what else sports and we are it is gonna be awesome today We were jumping into all of the things that you want to hear from an athlete's perspective not me a real athlete and then Up into the investments for a perspective or I can chime in as well. So I'm excited to you know The way this is all coming together is I'm for one semester I'm taking over someone sports class and I wanted to bring in investors who were athletes are athletes Whatever it is. I want that whole mix and today we have Keaton Nankovil am I pronouncing that properly? Yeah, we did yeah, and I'm got a cool Italian name so So he's he's joining us today, and it's best of both worlds. He's gonna go through all of it professional athlete College ball professional and then now he's turned into the investor world But he's from Midwest guy man with Wisconsin Badgers. So you were born and raised in Wisconsin, correct born and raised man I'm from Madison, Wisconsin like Dope city. It's great city and I didn't know you know when you're born in that environment the badger fans are crazy Like they're the best and when you're born environment. You just think that's how things work Everybody has a bucky badger flag and a bucky badger bumper sticker. So I just grew up around it I didn't realize that not every city was like that until I left You know, yes, and then we'll talk about the pro levels too like some fans are crazy than others, right? Someone throw down with you some some was just chilling in the seat No, but I love it the Midwest guy and now you live in Chicago. So I was just there. I should have hit you up I was just there for barbecues, I mean barbecues and family stuff Yeah, so I'm you know from there. So I so you live there now. Yeah, love it I mean Midwest summers are hard to beat and you know the joke for me was I grew up in Madison. I stayed there for school I never left until I went to play basketball in Europe. So I was like my adult life. Okay. I don't I live more different places in Europe than I ever lived in America until I came down to Chicago So I'm happy to be here. I love this. No, it's beautiful in the summertime is gorgeous there, man Winters will beat your ass, but you know summer's summer's summer's great New York's cool, but it's like a little humidish more a little bit more than you. It's not Houston human, but it's humid But you know clean up everything. Okay, I guess I'm a job just excited because we you know I had a chat a couple weeks back and we're about you know just setting up for today There's so many things we can unlock and unpack with you Jump into it. So Madison guy. I love that city out of cousin from a wife's side who went to school there So we had seen it. I think a couple times beautiful city But then jump into you Wisconsin Badgers started the team and then you ended you played proball in Europe And then we're gonna jump into that and then later we'll get into the investment side because that's you know Park there for me. Go for it. Cool. Well, I'll correct you first. I was definitely not the star of the team I was like, you know Very proud to be a badger hometown kid, but I was lucky to play with like incredible players So I was I was a guy who was you know by my senior year probably like that second tier like I was a starter But like I played with guys that were NBA Eurone league level John Lure and Jordan Taylor were like the go getters on our team great careers, you know Jordan's still playing But I found my role honestly. I was like an undersized five in that program. So Long story short. I went to school For basketball like I won't I won't sugar code it as much as everybody wants to say student that I went to school for basketball Yeah, and ended up getting my degree to be a gym teacher coach like that's that's what I thought I was gonna do you know be done playing and then go back in coach at my high school or something like that By the time I was a senior you know was at a level where playing professionally was an option It wasn't something that I knew about or like thought about beforehand But it became an option and so I was exploring that and Man, that's that's a roller coaster probably a podcast in and of itself And I don't remember most of it at this point, but like I back then kind of like that process of getting an agent The right type of agent getting the right situations. I didn't you know, we didn't know I was raised by a single mom who like We were just trying to scrap it together we were behind the eight ball most stuff but Kind of what happened is I got hooked up with a guy named Henry Thomas who at the time was like Dwayne Wade's agent I think he had Chris Paul on his roster CAA was the agency He like like he liked my mom's energy. She was a scrappy single mom She met him in a game was like my son's the best. You got to represent him. And so like you know all of a sudden I'm an okay college player that's connected to Henry Thomas and obviously I ended up working with his European guy But like amazing how small that world is so my rookie year I ended up in Germany played three seasons in Germany Went to a team that was kind of like an upstart, you know, not a big prestigious team if you know you have a soccer jersey on obviously like Byron Munich had a club Berlin doesn't have a soccer team, but like they were a big club. There was a team named Bomberg in the league at the time Euro league And we were outside of that group, but we ended up like winning the regular season league and going to the finals my rookie year Wow, and it was like off to the races I played again like Second tier guy in the team. I played with the two-time MVP and some like national team guys and it's just like right place right time Let me go contribute. That's always my mentality. Yeah, so did three seasons with them You know did well in the German league we played internationally so overseas you have your league is kind of the top international level Then the second at the time was called euro cup. It's changed a little bit since then, but we were playing euro cup so like Road games during the week in Tel Aviv or Greg Canaria or you know Paris and then home games in Germany on the weekends or whatever It was just a crazy schedule as though did that for two seasons So first season was just Germany second and third were international in Germany For season I went to play in Spain, which it was the ACB. It's kind of the you know the most well-known league over there I went to like a you know kind of an average team of the ACB, but like we're playing against Barcelona We're playing against Real Madrid. We're playing against Valencia. We're playing against all these Spanish early teams that are killers Yes, these dudes are incredible so like The thing that people don't know is these guys can play. It's not as flashy as the NBA It's not as well-known, but these guys are killers a lot of them a lot of room in the NBA players But it Lucas from Real Madrid, right? Yeah, so yeah, Luca my my year in Spain Luca was like 15 so like he was a bench guy getting garbage time in it But like play them Kristoff for Zingas. It was his last year in the ACB Mario Hazonia who had a decent career over here and it's back over there. So like great players great experience And a great way to see the world like it just changed my world view as a Midwestern kid So yeah, there's lots to talk about I won't dominate that like I do want to know click on one thing I love this story because I've had you know how we we talked chat about mutual friends We might have like I have some friends who've been in the NBA and then and then played Euro as well Yeah, and I'll do I'll dial in in that in a minute, but I want to know so like for me I'm I'm I'm not you, right? You're like well, you said six eight six nine something like yeah, right? So I'm not I'm six one. Yes, but so I'm but I was a Michael Jordan of my block As a kid. I'm kidding. No, so I was never gonna be no one saw me out like hey, man. This dude's D1 I'm not even D10 if that's the thing right so but I so no one saw me out today that with this guy can carry our team I'm gonna give this kid scholarship. Like this dude better be well at do well at school and grades Yeah, so that's that was my calling right. Yeah, so for you people like you When when does that start like somebody seeks out? Okay, is it like how young were you and you started a B And then when do they see a man? This dude's got something special beyond the block player kid Yeah, I mean, I don't know how other kids approach it. It to me. It's like you grow into it, right? So I was always a big kid That you know, that just helps. That's just luck of the draw Excuse me, you know, I think back to like middle school. It's like okay. You start on your local middle school team Yeah, next thing you know, they're like, okay, let's put the best middle school team together from this league I leveled up one. Okay, great. Right. Let's put the best high school together from this state a you leveled up one more Then it's like, okay, who's getting recruited to college? It's like you just kind of grow into it where it's my thing was And I give this advice to any parents who like are raising kids that want to play sports I was a gym rat. I love I love being in the gym and just like playing the game and That's how you get better. There's no like you can't pay for skills. You can't you can pay for coaching, but like A kid's just got to be a gym rat. So like this leveling up was an eventuality. Right. It's being a gym rat. That's what that's what makes you good So the heart the hearts in there. Yeah, so Steph Curry's a good example that undersized ish That's that from his own explanation my six three But you know in a league of giants. I've clearly but obviously found his spot and he changed the game Actually, he's probably changed the game in his generation more than anyone open up like you know, and then different zoning all the all the different How do you defend that and then it just opens up the game a lot? Okay, so then it's just kind of kept happening my my kid plays in the a you right now travel team He's not you know smart kids. He's not gonna be you probably and I'm not trying to be that day It was like all right, amen. I believe my kid, but you know We're not seeking him out to be like the next Kobe. The next to the Bronx And you know, we know because there's a lot a lot of talent at that level and then as it as you get to the top is even fiercer Yeah, I can imagine and then what's that like the camaraderie like so, you know Then you then you know like hey, we're unlocking something potentially for a career What's it like up that at that level and I want to get you get asked you about it the pro level two? Yeah, take a few minutes Actually the camaraderie going up like through the college level is the best and It is it is competitive, but like Again, I was back home in Wisconsin this past weekend and these are friends that I made playing basketball This is like everybody I know is from basketball. Nice either either played with them Met him through the sport like my life is Basically grown out of my time in basketball. I love it and the camaraderie is great because like I was in a good situation I don't know if it's this way for everybody, but like I played on a stacked high school team again right place right time I was a freshman the team was well-established But we had my freshman year the state mr. Basketball went on to play in North Dakota My sophomore year state mr. Basketball Wesley Matthews went on to play at Marquette and then it's still in the NBA, you know 15 years later I was mr. Basketball, but we had this culture of like supporting this like it became a thing where it's like Oh, yeah, we always have that okay caliber and like there was nobody looking out and going like oh, I don't I don't like this guy I don't want him to get it wasn't internally competitive. It was like oh, no, this is this is sick weird This is what we do here. Okay, same thing with Wisconsin, right? like I played my freshman year. I didn't play much, but like I was on a team with Brian but she was in McDonald's all-american Yeah, go go get it, but like do your thing like we want to see you win. I played with John Laura I mentioned earlier this guy's like he was a NBA draft pick we were in the same class We're the same position. So like he's taking my minutes, and I'm like no John's John's good. I like him He's my guy. I want him to succeed. So like you just that camaraderie is really crazy That's great because it's supported right like we can all we all win and actually What you see is when somebody's really succeeding the people next to them often succeed as well So like John's worth work ethic helps me hopefully mine helped him That's right when you get the right people in the room. They push each other higher and use you know of the three major teams and let's get It's like the US right NFL MLB and NBA clearly you have NBA's us I mean in basketball is the smallest team right? Yeah, you know five on the field on the quarter anytime versus 11 Yeah, and I don't know how many baseball has it like 11 or 12 or something like that You know night cuz you're looking in the space. I don't watch baseball Yeah, yeah, it's not my game either But you're thinking about getting involved with it. So we're gonna bring it up. We'll bring it up. Yeah Okay, so it's cool because I I told you about my friend Jamel Thomas who played and he played with an Italian Lee I think in Germany for a little bit. He was a walk on with the Warriors for a little bit But then his cousin Stefan Marbury and you know in Sebastian Telfer like who's drafted by the Suns Obviously Marbury all over our east coast area and then with the Shanghai sharks. I'm playing he played in China for a long time Yeah, he's a stud there. Yeah, like I had huge shoe deals and everything all of that. So He told me some of the ins and outs and I want to ask you something like these kind of quirky things that most of like us Like you know who are the Michael Jordan's the little bronze of the Copies of our block But you know we're the top one player in our three-person block team So I want to ask you this so he told me so what do you guys do before like a game? Let's say your travel he goes man, sometimes you're traveling like crazy every other week every other day There's like a game or something sometimes it's back-to-backs So we would just sometimes we'd arrive there wouldn't be time to go in and do a Official practice somewhere. Yeah, so he'd be in a boardroom. We put a garbage bat You know like you know We just talk about talk about strategy and just work through the plays in our head We sit on different sides of the table. There's the garbage basket. We take a pack. We take a piece of paper And we're doing our thing. So just mentally we're aware. Yeah, can you give us I thought that was fascinating Yeah, one of the things with that you would have seen that we don't know as a casual consumer that you all go through experience You know, I don't know if I have like a cool example like that But I will tell like I'll give you a story which is like my when I played in Europe my family would come visit once a year okay, and And they get there and they go hey, let's go you know, let's go downtown. Let's go see what's going on They get a vacation for them. It's cool. It's fun and What even they the people I talk to every day didn't realize is it's it's an all-incumptive processing job And so like that story about the you know playing in the boardroom for practice It's like what people don't always realize is for the two hours of game you see There's 20 hours of practice film rehab right and it's it's all-encompassing by far I love what I do now pro sports was by far the best job I will ever have because like what could be better But it's you know, it's a 60-hour work week and it's demanding and like people see this little sliver of it But like everything that goes into it is is insane I can see your family's coming from Madison like all right, man. Let's go let's go hit up like Berlin or Italy for the day And you like yeah, yeah, I got another two-hour practice You know second two-hour practice of the day and two hours and it's cool sharing war stories with Jamal because like he you know He's like you he's six eight six I think six eight six nine and they're kind of grooming their young guy to play because he's Tallest in the group of the kids, you know, and I can and because the mom's tall as well and then they're just grooming him And it's funny because they were in Jersey and then they took him to Brooklyn He goes that's where he's from it's like all right. It's too soft here in Jersey He goes so he went there and the kid was like when he was nine or ten, you know, they played rougher and he put him in it because Maul knew I this guy's got to see adversity on the court and get his ass beat a little bit and the kid was trying for the first You know a couple of weeks and then now he's used to it like because you play rougher You know, I used to play rougher, but that's because I probably had lack of skill I split that 90 style But but these guys, you know because when you play and you it's you get banged up and even on the court You we could say the league has gotten softer than it was let's say 10 20 years ago. They still get pretty banged up Man, yeah, I mean, they're getting you know, there's elbows, you know, you got dream on green or run our tests doing Dylan Brooks out there doing some weird stuff But just in general and in bead doing some stuff, right? You getting banged up and you got guys that are you know average height The leagues probably six six to six eight average weights gonna be 222 25 These are not small people. Yeah, and you put miles on your body and the other thing people don't you don't You talk about like a Michael Jordan Kobe there outliers in terms of competitiveness. Yeah, but in order to make it that level Everybody's competitive. Absolutely. And so like the stuff that looks soft. Yeah, man You could say the 90s was like more physical in a certain way, and it may be There's no lack of physicality now, but like guys are doing whatever it takes so like it may not be hands checking on the perimeter But it's gonna be a little elbow on the rebound. It's gonna be you know It's gonna be a hard screen whatever and it just it's death by a thousand cuts man. It takes its toll I can imagine yeah, what's that process like so immediately after the game? I know I'm dialing in the athlete's hax This is I will always talk about venture. Yeah, this is something unique that we get to do with you So okay, so you're icing down? What is it? What's the process after the game? I mean like give it to us So you were asking to about kind of the difference between like us and overseas and look my crew was at this point 10 12 years ago when I started overseas so like things have advanced But in America, you know, you have a whole training staff you have you know cold tubs ice bath Compression everything right after a game and you also 20 years old so you don't do any of it anyway Cuz you think your body's gonna last yeah But I got overseas and like it was hard to find a bag of ice and just culturally Because they didn't have it like if you had a bag of ice the assumption was something was wrong It's like I'd find a bag of ice to the hotel after practice and somebody go are you okay? And I'm like yeah, okay, I'm just trying to stay ahead of the next thing. Oh, wow so the discrepancy and resources was really crazy and even In Europe, right? You have an FC Barcelona like on the basketball side I played for a team salty. I'm gonna come so a small no football team attached to it. We didn't have the resources Uh-huh, so like Barcelona is gonna go share resources with the football team Okay, we're going you know we're practicing in a public gym and you know We had an ice tub and it was a great setup But it was just different so like there's levels and all the sudden you realize it's like a rich-get-richer situation We're like Barcelona's attracting the best talent and they're taking the best care of them So they just start to separate more and more And over time it makes a big difference in that training that acts as the training facility and resources makes a big difference on the court On the field, right? I mean I can sit there as a as a Chicago dude The Cubs when they finally got to win they built it finally a $200 million training facility and got the right staff in place a Few years prior. Yeah, they're the right talent on the team and they made it. They got that world series, right? Yeah, so That's a big part of it. That's right. There's a lot of talent elsewhere in the world But like Asia and all of them. They don't have these training facilities to kind of groom these kids like there's a Florida academy I know someone that went to right. Yep. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I don't know how But a lot of folks aren't coming out of there like they used to is that is that true? I haven't been you know high school so far I'm so far moved from it, but like I know it's a big deal and just the thing. I'll say I'm like this Access to resources point is like I was talking about how it's all encompassing right mm-hmm You can only in my case you can only be on the court a certain number of hours a day Okay, where I've seen a big progression in the sport is everything around I had a strength coach once tell me like Look if you're if you're in college, you're part of the top five percentile top two percentile Yeah, we're trying to squeak out the one percent to be better than the other 98 percent right geez And so like it comes on of course you got to get your jumpers up of course You got to go practice well, but it comes in the weight room. It comes with nutrition. It comes with recovery This is like this is how people optimize and why you hear like LeBron spends a million dollars a year on his body Yeah, why you know the cubs are building the $200 million facility It's like they're paying for that 1% and that's how you get to championship level. Okay I love it, man. Is there anything that you had what like a like a Secret thing that you did to get you hyped for a game like now like I know like with Apple TV in this relationship They have with the MLS right you can hear Messi's playlist Right, and it gives you a deeper sense of fan engagement Another connection with the fan if you're a fan another connection with that player What was something that you did that was maybe kind of quirkier that you saw a lot of other people doing as well Man mine was more on the quirky side. I was all admitted like I was a little bit of a head case as a player, right? Okay, I felt the pressure I had like a certain degree of like performance anxiety. I was like I want to go out there and be as good as people think I should be Uh-huh So I was a big routine guy where like my latest one like when I was playing in in Europe because It's not as well-resourced. I'm cooking my own food before the game a lot of times But like if we had a game at noon. I'd always want to eat six hours before the game So I like in spade you play your games in the morning we play it like nude I'd wake up at six o'clock I'd make six scrambled eggs two slices of bacon. It was like the same thing every time right and it's just like routine To the point of psychosis where it's just like Gameday looks like this and if I had family in town or whatever Don't care. This is what game day looks like for me. Yeah, and so you just you get this thing where it's like I want to perform I'm gonna take out every variable and I'm gonna control what's going on That's I'm no, but I get it. I get it. Oh, so that makes perfect sense to me That's what I've heard I've heard that a lot in the okay. This is awesome, man. So then you I want to ask you a couple more things about that late life Man, I love it Like you know a lot of these folks like even at the pro level are they friends off the court? I'm gonna ask you that that and then I'm gonna ask you why do you think it is because you can argue to be say that in the NBA today The best players are from Europe and beads from Cameroon like you say they're not US players. Yeah, right? And what what is the reasoning behind that are there more non-US parents and coaches putting their Putting the proper pressure on the kids to just you know perform are we getting too soft here in America? What what are we doing here like too much? You know what's going on? Yeah I mean here's my thoughts on it right is a guy who played overseas The game You know, we both grew up in the the Jordan area and the Jordan era in that like part of the world right? So first one your first question is like our guys friends are not yeah, it used to be the narrative was like I hate this guy Jordan hates Isaiah It's probably the other way around more cuz he was And it was genuine right like yeah, I think it was like that Um, and that still exists like I there was a point in time where like I even manufactured it and then you get guys I'll just talk about basketball because it's the world I know but like I've watched LeBron's career closely, right? He's incredibly competitive, but he also respects the game and he respects his peers Yeah, and so we're like we're gearing up right now for the Olympics right and like what you see is now it's LeBron staff Katie all these guys who are the best of the best playing together and They take it seriously like there's there's just no beef on that team. They they're like oh actually This is cool and like I'll go play you in the finals Cleveland You know warriors, whatever a couple years ago, and I think the mentality I've seen changes like This understanding that we can be friends, but as soon as like as soon as we jump ball like the game itself is What's important actually rivalry less important like almost the art of being the best player? Is important so you know you don't need to hate somebody in order to give it your best That's that's kind of cool. That's how I like that. I like and that this team is stacked man It's sick great. It's almost like okay. This is not horrible. I'm not trying to take a shot But there's a lot of super teams in the league now, right? So like some of these guys are walking to this Olympics team like Oh, I got this back home. I'm a regular team in the league because I got this most talent around me all the time But they still can't win. I'm just playing but I'm just playing that's easy for a dude like me who's not competing at that level is to say You've seen it up close. Well, it gets to your second question, which is like why has the rest the world become good? Yeah, or like why so The thing is is that that talent right now is I'd still say concentrate in the US like most of the NBA Is still going to be from the US right and when you get these one-offs like a Yanis like a Yoke it's like a Luca Yeah, they're coming from around the world. That's like a big, you know, the world has seven eight billion people We have 300 million so like that's right. It's like USA versus the world But this started in the 92 Olympics when like That team made basketball cool around the world, right? And then you saw it again in the China Olympics in 24 or 2004 maybe 2008. Yep. Whichever year it was Where it brought basketball to China in like a crazy way. Yep Um, and so what happens is little kids start picking up the ball. They start playing. Yeah now they can watch you two clips Right and now you have this culture around a sport that's like Getting everywhere and if you have a guy that's 6/11 and you know runs as like a deer and jumps like crazy and Yanis Also, he happens to play basketball instead of football now. Yeah, so like you're getting this talent match that didn't exist before and they've got You know these this training mechanisms, you know Luca was I don't know if a young teenager when he moved to Spain so like they found him they brought him up in the system And also he happens to be 6/7 kind of a savant with a basketball like right right let it like let him rock And so like you just find it all this talent that now knows what basketball is yeah and talent's pretty evenly dispersed There's nothing special. It's just culturally the game is more in French to the place which is why hopefully We start in US we become better at global football soccer. Yeah, cuz now we're getting more exposure to it We had a lim- we had the Olympics here. I think it was 90s and I thought soccer would have hit off after that Yeah, it didn't um, not as you know, and hopefully now because they've access to more content They could see it and you know consume it all the time that hopefully hopefully they crushed it man Yeah, I want us to become because that's one sport that we have not You know that we should be a major players and they were not yet. I get it. You know, and it used to be Europe was kind of the more Brute uh meaning so South America South American players were generally more finesse. Yeah, awesome. Just just awesome handles Like Kyrie with the foot with the yeah, but then like western was more brute and like Not in a negative way, but like just hey, we would less finesse and more broom And now the teams interchange so much that all the players all it's it's all they're all adopting each other style So it's it's amazing. I want America to kind of crush in that space Is this especially great It'd be great. Yeah, yeah, cuz I think it's a great sport because all kids start off in America playing you know A.W.A. So or some sort of soccer league and then they move on to some other sport that they choose and then football is kind of having its issues As far as recruiting here in America. Yeah, still the number one sport from revenues present and I love that's my you we talk about this This is my favorite sport NBA watch during the playoffs Cuz there's just too many games what my kids and outs since their big NBA guys are kid they're young But they want to watch NBA less football so like you end up doing what your kids want to as well. Yeah, yeah, they're big curry fans, all right Yeah, so of course, okay I love it, man, so let's let's jump into so you saw Okay, so the resources and everything were different you jumped into this world of investing It was just how we kind of came together. I saw you at some seminar or something. I say maybe we need to chat and and alumni ventures and then so take take your get us here. How'd you arrive here? I'm still gonna weave in some of your athletic stuff because I I'm just a fan of that kind of stuff Yeah, yeah, so but how'd you jump to this world? It's a big part I mean the athletics is a big part of the story so alumni ventures is like you probably guess from the name like the premises We raised capital from alumni bases of universities and we invest you know, we invest to capital of that capital in Companies that have a connection to the university alumni base. So I'm university with scouts and guy When I stopped playing Totally honest like I was I was upside down and I had no idea like I didn't plan my life after basketball at all Yeah, and so I just got luckily there was a guy who was starting this fund And he needed an intern and I was like man, I'm unemployed like let me join you and it was around the university Wisconsin. So I was like cool. This is like this is my community. Let's do it And that's how I learned about venture, but alumni venture is as cool because like gave a guy like me who had no business exposure No startup exposure And all I did was you know works like the athletic connection is kind of twofold one You know My part of it would probably say this now, right? The reason he asked me to join is because I had a name in Madison that came from You know building the sports career, right? Yeah, and so you can't take you can't take for granted the things You did is like a 14 15 16 year old to build that brand right In second of all like in the same way I said I was a bit of a head case in basketball and that's what kind of gave me my work I think okay same thing when I was like okay if I'm gonna get into this new career I better be good at it. So like I'm gonna show up to every meeting. I'm gonna be prepared I'm gonna ask questions. I'm gonna find the smartest guy And tag along with him the same way I'm gonna find the best jump shooter and work out with him Yeah, and so like I just mapped basically the way I worked on basketball into a new career And happened to love it and then I mentioned being a gym rat. Yeah Look It's like when you start in this field you you just got to read things you got to show up at conferences You got to talk to startups. You've got to be of an investing gym rat essentially And so that's that's kind of how I approached it is like let me just get my hands dirty and figure it out I'll love it man, and then and then use and you know back to your MBA you said I remember and technically you don't even need an MBA to be in this space And you don't even need to be a finance head to be in this space technically If you're like a superstar that knows how to take things to market a product your product person or whatever it is You can be if you have it that helps right I happen to have you had a tech background in a finance and I went into this and then but I was a music guy Right Yeah, so entertainment, but so we invest in that space so And then what were some of the deals? So alumni is huge. I know there's so many arms as you just mentioned So I sat in and a few of them and I know some of your colleagues one of your colleagues is gonna come on He's a football player. So we're gonna keep so we're gonna get him on in a little bit But there's so many parallels from that athletic life and the investor life right so I'm looking at the due diligence period That's you looking at a partner. You know, let's look at this way. You're not looking at now people follow Players more than teams right and in the sports in the sports arena us as investors You and I share this love that we want to teach people about investing, you know, I remember we chat about that so In this world, we're looking at the founder more than the actual product or service they're trying to put out So it's like you're the player versus the team and and initially right because if that founder has to be sound can take you know to the hey You're gonna take a beating in the market and hey the first idea or two may not work or three and then you got to jump pivot And you know be able to meet the consumer where they are and take their feedback and do that What are some parallels you've drawn from both of these careers you've had Yeah, I mean there's there's kind of the direct ones right like sometimes I refer it's like a diligence report is a scouting report Yep, here's just the nuts and bolts right You know, I refer to like a vc is almost like the agent role in Professional sports right you're you're building a portfolio the same way an agent has 10 20 players they represent That's building a portfolio in vc It's you know what we call a power law business right the same with sports agencies So like I draw these direct parallels But really at the end of the day vc any business is people business yeah, and like you mentioned you're gonna invest in a founder The more I've been around this the more I realize the people are what drive it and there are great ideas out there Some ideas are so great. They're inevitable, but on On the average what drives any business is the people So what I spent a lot of time doing because like sports is Sports is like this interesting crucible. It's a pressure cooker where you see a certain type of humanity like you see what People are when the heat is on you see them like in this vulnerable state of competitiveness whatever And actually, I thought I was gonna have to move away from my sports mindset to be a good investor Not at all, man. I've actually circled back to it more right? Yep So like when I talk to founders. I'm looking for intangibles the same way that like if I went out and was recruiting a guy for a team or like trying to build a sports team I'd want a guy, you know, I'd want a guy who shoots 50% from the free throw or the three-point line or something But also I take a guy who shoots 45% is a dog. Yeah, any day. Yeah, right? Yep It's the same as a founder, right? I want the guy who's Harvard educated smartest in his class You know an assassin, but I would also take the guy who's like a dropout and Using his intuition, but he's a dog. Yeah, I take that guy any day Yeah, and so like I look for those founders now because we're early stage, right? We you know We do we invest across all the stages, but like our sweet spot is seen in series a yeah, and like you said There's so much that can go wrong. Yeah, that if you don't have just a bulletproof mentality It's gonna get you So like things things I look for candidly is underdogs, you know, I love it because I look for oh sorry good Yeah, go ahead. No, I mean because you look and I've mentioned this several times apple or google these large behemoths they can afford to have a minus b plus b players on the and their squad, right? They can they can afford to like 20,000 of their employees can be b plus performers In a startup everyone needs to be a plus and that has to have that dog mentality that I'm gonna take you know Anything you throw at me. You need the dog to get in there and just like okay, you can throw some challenges at me And we're gonna we're gonna come through and do this. I'll tell you like I played against um My rookie in Germany. We lost in the finals to PJ Tucker. Oh, it was playing for a team called bomber, right? Okay It was his last year before we went back to the NBA Uh, the next year we were in Euro Cup. We played in in St. Petersburg, Russia and we played against Patrick Beverly Okay, right Okay, I think he got pulled between the first time we played that team in the second time he got pulled to the NBA Okay, and I'm watching these guys now and like PJ's had a great career Pat Bebs had a great career and I appreciate those guys now more look Kobe's amazing MJ's amazing Katie LeBron these guys are incredible, but they're they're in a different stratosphere The heart of the team lies in PJ Tucker and in Pat Bev. Yeah, it's like I appreciate these guys more the same way that like I love a great CEO But like I also love having an absolute beast of a COO. Yeah, it's taking care of operations Perfectly said. Yeah, you see these guys who it's like the team is actually like a full thing and so yeah I've Because I love I love an a plus CEO and I've just realized that the superstar CEO can only go so far And you need that comp you everyone needs to compliment each other you can't have two's text does on the same team I mean, you know in a if there's a three-person team and a startup you can't have two text does and no one knows marketing or scaling or any of this Operations right dream on green is a perfect example not the lead scorer on the warriors when they had that run Uh, now he's kind of maybe a detriment to the team. He's just a punch in the shit out everybody Yeah, you could argue. Yeah, I love the guy You know, it's he's fun to watch one guy we jumped about this one guy he didn't mess with this run our test That was the only guy I saw him back down from you know because Ron jess will miss, but dream on dream Dream on green like he was kind of the heart like I remember a couple I mean arguably when they got thrown out with that one against the cat the Cleveland Cavaliers for that fifth game They both did something each other, but only dream on got thrown out Yep, you know, you throw a dude on the ground. He's gonna retaliate and only the guy on the ground got thrown out Which makes no sense and then they lost bogey I think right and then J.R. Smith fell into him busted his knee So they had no center presence, so then they could just drive in lane lane lane So Cavaliers got that dream on didn't mess that game up, you know, do that thing They probably don't want that series too. I mean more than likely. There's a lot of diminishing returns, right like You want a dog, but there's there's probably a level where there's too much dog sometimes right But I held it together man. He I mean, he was the one that pushed him because sometimes these guys look like they're spent Steph Curry will always Steph Curry. He's still the same quality player. He was clay is falling off a bit That's easy for me to sit here from my chair in my room to sit there and say that but you know It's hard to stay at the level especially through injuries. I can imagine especially when the competition is so fierce, right? Yeah, the one thing I know at basketball. I always say father time is undefeated. Yeah, man Is that our time with LeBron LeBron? LeBron seem to beat it, but like even that you know Even that's gonna run its course someday LeBron's gonna be 50 someday. Yes. Yeah, it's just the way it works And you know, we're seeing it Okay, we're not gonna get into this but we're seeing in our political sphere right now age, you know And age is not nothing against either one of these gentlemen, but you know younger generations probably deserves someone to Non-octogenarians, you know To run the country because they're not thinking about the future. They're thinking about right now. They're homies type of thing Right, yeah, so the age does catch up with you. I've seen it in our family, too What else can we get into you saw so euro tech did you have exposure? Are you looking in euro as far as investments wise like euro tech versus here and Yeah, okay, our I think we're Sixx the size as far as venture capital that 240 some billion here to sick. I don't know what is 250 our entire You know assets under management. There's like 40 50 ish. So it's like five six times larger here A lot more firms a lot more investments made and this is the entirety of Europe Quality there's cool things happen is mr. All's got some big funding and you know in France just recently But majority of it is through here shank, you know China's number two I think of the world behind us and then I think UK and Europe makes up the number three market But what are you seeing parallels are you playing in that space at all? They across these Reasons yeah, and I'll draw a parallel to you asked about kind of The emergence of of European or international players in basketball right In my estimation, this is simply a cultural difference right now. Okay, America loves entrepreneurship We love that story. We've built a mechanism to fund that story in an industry to fund that story, which is venture capital And it's important. It's a huge part of our economy Europe At the moment doesn't build that way quite as much But there's like a huge arbitrage Opportunity here and one thing I know about financial systems is they find opportunity yeah And so like when I talk to companies in Europe The valuations are lower. They're usually a little bit more progress for the stage like they're good companies And our capital US capital will find them and then what eventually will happen? It's gonna take some time is that cycle of Oh, I built a you know, I built a company in Zurich. I talked to a company in Zurich today. So it's top my I built a company in Zurich with venture capital dollars It worked for me. I'm gonna reinvest that in the in the ecosystem and I'm gonna fund the next company It'll take time But in 15 20 years you're not gonna go USA's the capital only capital of venture capital. You're gonna go right Oh, no, this system's been spread out. There's talent everywhere and there's founders that want to build this way everywhere the same way that Turns out Yannis was gonna be in Greece whether basketball was there or not and now basketball found him right yeah So that I think that will happen to me parallel Yeah, we look there. I think you know part of our model is following A certain type of lead investor. That's that's how we invest and so What we tend to do is exacerbate the culture that exists here because The high-level lead investors are primarily in the United States right so we're gonna follow them but these opportunities we're getting their money finds opportunities financial systems are very fluid and they're like There's stuff being built in Europe Africa Asia. Yeah, big-time and limited partners right everyone has gotten You know the people who are going to invest and be you know partner up with gps these LPs They have become wealthier in these pockets of countries So they have now more money to deploy in these alternative asset classes right so you're seeing that So of course Europe's got a China's definitely got it. They brought everyone up into the middle class and then obviously you're wealthier In the last 20 years they did that movement right so there's a ton of LPs ready to play they have some Challenges other in in their infrastructure as far as economically real states a big issue there So they're trying to forget that out, but there's real estate money to there's there's investment money to be played with the one thing that you nailed it like you know we I won't go too far into history, but like you know hp and all these guys kind of started this whole play where they would have internal It kind of startups and then if they didn't succeed They would just cabosh them and then take that talent just be the best talent kind of like of the pair in the sports world The best talent just kept riding the top and they would move them around in certain divisions within like hp or these Companies that we think are old behemoths now. They're not apple or google or matter, right? Oh labs. Yeah exactly those kind of things and then it just moved from there And then they launched out into their own works people wanted ownership We don't want to be a CEO a CEO of a division within a major because I want to be a CEO and sharing the upside or and the downside Our own thing is startups. That's how it launched here So we took those chances early and we have a lot of capital to deploy here and our government kind of helped after World War 2 to kind of Push prop up like these hp type companies and then we had that's where it developed. So that's why we've got a got a head start on it It will catch up. Are there certain niches Untaped markets you're seeing like if you're looking at zero or these other European things that we're not looking at here yet I'll couple that with one thing because in New York has always been the financial capital every time it's tried to move to London where it rightfully could be Um, and it doesn't sound horrible. I'm not making a political statement You know if you want to do dirty investing in America, it's through real estate Like if you'll hear from other company countries who did like weird shit like gun trafficking and all this and other weird things You can get into real estate here and see your valuations rise You can't do it in the stock market as easily London's open for business, baby Right, you can list if your month company was made in arms trafficking to some like Random terrorist group or whatever or other like any kind of weird thing They'll still take it let you list and they know your companies was built from revenue from that They'll still let you list and London stock exchange So that's why you see and I've chatted about this where you see phenomenal food in London Not because they're local stuff, but like other international players. It's all a nice fusion there, right? so Are there other opportunities you're seeing like that are in Europe now that maybe we've already exasperated here and you know It's kind of saturated that that it's kind of newish there It's a good question. I don't know if I'm the right person to answer it. I mean candidly are fun because of how we invest as a follow-on investor. I think the The lead investors are probably better to answer that question One thing I do know and I have observed is that like fundamentally entrepreneurship and startups are they're about solving pain points and so What you do see is that different parts of the world have different pain points for whatever reason, right? You know in For instance in Africa before they had like telecom infrastructure all the sudden they get telecom infrastructure And you have like this leapfrogging of payments on telecom right so they had this enabling technology of New telecom infrastructure after years of not having anything. Yeah, and they had this massive pain point around payments in financial systems So what they do they put it all in the cell phone Yeah, and they create massive businesses around it and the super app and these kind of things right Very unique to the fact pattern in Africa. Yeah, and you could say that about every geography There's just There's different problem sets happening all over the world and they're they're kind of this confluence of like resources culture business You know whatever it is And then something this little kernel of a pain point bubbles to the top and what that looks like in France is different than what it looks like in India Is different than what it looks like in Japan and so on so like there's just these interesting problems And sometimes the the issue with that is that an American VC who deals with American problems doesn't see the potential Fair of an Estonian company. Yeah Right, it's so they're not funny, but it stinks. It's so funny. You brought up an awesome point right there So like Africa and Asian markets, you know, they jumped to mobile payments far easier and quicker than we did They adopted it at scale percent then we did in America because we had what the credit card hiccup We were used to pulling out that plastic So we're like, ah, we don't need to do the mobile phone So it took us about a couple extra years where so they were able to leapfrog technologically whereas we had the We had the resources to kind of make it at scale, but we were so we were hung up on our credit card play because we because that was established here Which it was not in those particular regions of Africa and Asia. So they they jumped to it. That's a great point Yeah, um, what other opportunity like I'm looking I'm looking in Europe. I've lost a ton of money in India We made some money there. I lost them there. I've made you know, we've done well in Europe and some pockets of the majority has been US of money bro Just because it's been easier to play here And then it really opened up during the pandemic like global players now you're in zooms with people that you weren't in zooms with before from all over the place Which is awesome. It's kind of cool But then you're learning about other ideas that are out there of opportunities are that what what does some untapped opportunities? We're not seen in America You know again, I don't know from the best person to do this week I don't spend a ton of time in Europe, but I will say like a large area of focus for me lately has been sports investing Okay Yeah, well, I mean, it's maybe it's a natural point, but like we've started a A sports investment fund at alumni venture, so it's the same model co-investing But we're gonna spend a lot of time in sports and we're gonna cover you know human performance sports media e-sports teams and leagues And so you know kind of what's what's the opportunity? We're not seeing. I'm not sure yet But like what I do know is that how people interact with sports in Europe where it's soccer-based or You know You mentioned kind of baseball, right? You know we're we've looked at a League and emerging league in India or the Middle East India Dubai That's baseball like what's the unmet need there? And so just just trying to take those factors into consideration of one of the challenges is like I don't live in Dubai. I I don't know firsthand the problem that's going on here, but I can kind of speculate and guess And so we do our best to find those opportunities and Admittedly like without firsthand knowledge it can be a little challenging and we do take guesses But there are opportunities and I try and put it through the lens of like what is the problem? They're solving In this particular place. Is it a global problem? Is it a regional problem? But like why are they building that doesn't make sense to me and so that doesn't answer your question directly But it's just the lens that we think through because there's just differences around the world You're perfectly to ask this question too. It's a two-prong question So you as an athlete what is something that was a it's tech-enabled now? There's something that's really enhancing athletic performance that wasn't there when you were playing a B. Yeah, what's an opportunity? What's something that you wish was out there for these athletes? That still hasn't been met Oh boy the second one's tough. Yeah, you know I remember being at University of Wisconsin an old player came up to me Like yeah, we used to eat steak and potatoes before games and we were doing you know, we had like a nutrition plan I was like man, we've come a long way the you know When I think about like what enables players? I think at the elite level there's always resources so like We had access to stuff 10 years ago 12 years ago that is only getting kind of commercially Available at scale now. Yeah, but we invest in a company called SIQ basketball here It's like a tech-enabled basketball so it can tell you you know makes and misses Arc spin rate different things on your basketball and the reason I like it is This actually flows down to like the youth level So when I think about sports grassroots is like a big area of interest, right? How do we get? Every kid, you know if a kid doesn't have a coach Can he at least get feedback from his basketball? Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's perfect You know if a kid doesn't have a pitching coach. There's a lot of AI visual AI technology. It's like Put your camera phone here Record from these two angles and it will give you pitching instruction And so I think about a lot of these things not to give resources to the elite because the elite have the best coaches Most cutting-edge technology, but I really think of like how do you get it to scale? To the youth level or like the everyday person level right because I want youth sports like the way you get the next step Currie is by having a kid who can ball easy fifth grade and then he just gets better. Yeah, but I also think about the population, you know A lot of people stop working out after high school or college because they stop playing organized sports It's like that same technology can be applied coaching How do we get custom coaching? You know you wear a roof you're getting biometric data, but like how do we give you a layer of intelligence on top of that that's like You know push your pace or run this style today or whatever it's like this customization Of using data to customize your experience as an athlete to just get you more engaged and healthier. I love the man This is great. You know, you talked you're to hit some of the things I wanted to chat with you about scouting is just like due diligence right as scouting talent and all that There's nutrition new during nutritional differences in Europe like when I was in Europe for two weeks earlier This is like a couple of two months ago and we so I picked up the jersey, you know, I'm not a big I'm a casual Right, I got Madrid and Barcelona's team, so I could tell we were eating and drinking everything You know beers cheaper than water there, but we were drinking a lot of Spanish wine and then um and the food we are Loading up, right, but you don't feel as sluggish as you do view eight the similar food here in America, right? We pack it with additives and they do as well, right? There's a lot of cured stuff there that's got a lot of shit going on But now we're in here it of course we were walking more there like 20,000 to 25,000 steps a day because you're trying to see you're trying to you're sightseeing but Man, it's it's it's a world of difference like my my cousin lives there now. I have a lot of friends who've met live their short stints or longer stints And they said yeah, man the food quality is just different right where you're from some of my favorite you know your family's from Some of my favorite food and and that's one of my best trips my favorite trips of Europe as we know the kids want to go next year Italy Are you from Sicily or is that that's not you, right? It is my I mean, okay, I'm quite far removed. I am quite far removed as point, but like my family is to silly Yeah, the last place that I played professional basketball was in Sicily and oh actually after this season we went to the villager Yeah, we went to the village my great grandfather was born and found his name in the record book everything so that's hot Oh, yeah, I've never been to Sicily that's where I was going with that, but I've been all over the northern part But I've got to check that out at some point dear friend of mine from high school was a big guy at Disney now and he's a Illustrator became now exact and he's he's from Sicily so he was my Sicilian buddy back the day That he's it. Yeah, um, so what it what is as far as nutrition's standpoint are you hearing something like your your buddies who are athletes here Versus that right that we're athletes. They're like, okay, they're gonna have access to the top right as far as nutrition They're not gonna do the typical TV dinner type shit like a lot of kids A U.S. folks are doing yeah, um, otherwise, but it's a major difference even for the common person in Europe to just eat a healthier diet Take that for a minute. There's something there for you Yeah, there's a lot there and it doesn't necessarily like directly relate to like sports and investing But it's it's kind of an interest area of mine like I'm a kid who did grow up partially on TV dinners hamburger same same same right and um Again, I think about Europe and why it might be different I think this kind of comes back to like steeped in culture, right? This is like the home cook meal a little bit more connection to Your food sources so like a farmer's market is is an everyday occurrence there where like here It's a once a week kind of thing. Yeah It was really fascinating living over there because I didn't you know when I was younger We'd never but not never but like it was rare for us to buy like fresh produce Because it was expensive. Yeah In Europe the system is flipped they I don't know if they incentivize it I don't know the system that kind of makes it cheaper how they do it but like it's it's reasonably priced and it's like Okay, we can we can buy onions and apples and carrots and all this stuff and just cook with it like what a gift and so and then you talk about kind of regulatory issues like what's in their food. It's really fascinating. It's still an area of interest of mine and As much as I love exercise and physicality and movement I've actually come to realize nutrition's probably a bigger part of the equation over on it Man, once you hit like a certain love you like oh yeah, because I'm actually like six times a week Like we're doing something. I'm actually doing something or playing ball or something Yeah, eating is made has made more of a difference than anything else. Yeah Oh, yeah, but there's big behavioral questions around right like eating such a cultural thing too, right? So if your way to socialize is going out with your buddies I totally get why you end up eating Chicken wings and drink is a beer like it makes sense. Yeah, I get it It's a challenging question. You know in our investing world. So this game is always evolving quite a bit We should jump we should look at these behemoths like Nike Three years ago, you could sit there and say everyone's wearing Air Force one Jordan's everyone's wearing LeBron's everyone and LeBron's got some hot shoes He's not Mike like I've said that his shoes are kind of hot Air Force ones. You see everywhere, right? And my kids have like 50 of them so like And you know, but those shoes are hot. We were looking at some descent to my kids at camp just you just the other day I'm like, oh man, damn it. That LeBron shoes. They look good, but damn I can't buy them But Nike this behemoth you thought three years ago up until three years ago that they would just They're dominant brand right no one can compete with these cats while they've had like a downplay Last 10 years have been pretty rough for them down. You know, Donahue is come on. He's the eBay guy the head of it And even these big behemoths face challenges Amazon Walmart they face challenges So what imagine what a startup is going through at every level of the game? Nike you know the on and Hoko came out of nowhere Right, I own some on brand shoes red Fred or made a killing with that brand because he became an ador like he was a Nike guy They gave him a fat contract and they're like hey, you get equity like oh dope. All right, which they didn't do they don't do with anyone Jordan Nike, right? I think some other people have that deal probably uh, but you know, so that kind of thing Even though Nike guys Tadam and Luka were in the finals. It was a pretty Celtics are so deep. It was just kind of a boring finals and that's easy for me to say as a consumer You probably as a player say no, man, there's some shit going on there. That was good I'm like it was but yeah, I want to see I want to see six And it was just they were so good and so deep right um that it was just kind of like and I thought after the Mavericks took out You know the Timberwolves like Timberwolves easily dismantled of nuggets It seemed like for the first and then they kind of fell asleep in the middle and they cleaned it up with the game seven I said okay No one's going to beat the Timberwolves and then Mavericks just did it Okay, so then they're going to take the crown, but Celtics took them matchups Yeah, it just shows you how hard. I had a point about night Nike here. Where's it going with this? But Nike you can see you know, so on brand Hoko look man. It looks like they're made for like They're very comfortable just like on brand, but they're made for like Stevie Wonder and people who can't see because they're not the most attractive Look at you, right? You know what I'm saying yeah on brand. They kind of look cool Nike they had this thing where they went D to see they limited all their middle people to like in middleman to like 40 50 retailers versus a thousand that they had before You know and it's like digsporting goes in all these cats, but they thought hey, we're hot right now 2020 2021 Everyone's at home they're not spending on but and so they're buying our $200 Jordans right every other day It seems like well now experiences are taking a you know, people only have so much to spend Open up the markets Maybe that D to see play was not a great play They thought the brand was so strong and resilient that they could do that and they're you know led by the CEO Donahue is a big eBay PayPal guy so he's a deed. He's a you know digital payments digital interactions He commerce is a right way to go But it seems like they're down 25% since he's been in the in the game. So just imagine Jewel it down to a startup level where companies are facing these you know adversaries at all times take that for a minute Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm throwing some shit. I do I think it's like it's no, it's an astute point and like it kind of brings up this classic innovators dilemma Which is like when you are a Nike Where do you innovate where do you put resources and where do you go? This is working right Jordans a cash cow How much do we shake that up right and so I think you're absolutely right that like these challenges also face a startup But the way I look at it too is this is this is where the opportunity lies for startups exactly and this is this is actually their advantage in the market is like When you have the Nike brand it's such a press is a precious asset right don't screw up the Nike brand when you're On I don't know 10 years ago when nobody knows your name. Yep house money man. Go run at it. What do you have to lose? And so this is actually it's the opportunity for a lot of startups is to be like Actually, I love Nike so I won't pick on them, but actually I love and shoe brand a isn't yeah The shoe brand a isn't innovating we can solve that problem and maybe they end up buying us because we're solving that problem Maybe we end up competing with them because we're solving that problem, but that's That's part of what you know as the startup investor. It's part of what you look for is like Is there a hole is there something that somebody's not addressing is there some kind of friction in the market and I'll try I'll tie it back to With regards to innovators dilemma like to sports right It's not as comprehensive analogy as the Nike one, but like you also get this thing when you're the golden state warriors You've won a certain amount of championships You keep investing in this style of basketball yeah, and it works right, but eventually guys get older eventually the style changes And so even teams like them like it's a natural thing that clay leaves this hat it has to happen at some point Either he goes to another team or he retires like one of these things has to happen right but like you have these People get frustrated ones like oh, why didn't the nuggets win again? I think the nuggets are a fantastic team but like stylistically, it's something happened did something just go wrong Maybe that's the case, but like you see this in sports too where you have these innovators dilemma where it's like Gold state warriors the ship is rocking Don't don't mess with it too much Okay, but then time passes time passes they won their championships in the meantime, but like The bigger point is everything is always evolving business sports people It's always evolving which means there's always opportunity to solve a new problem or or bring a new solution to the market I think everyone to our founders rulers and kittens bring up a great point So like you know, there's always a new pain point to solve even in something that's existing and the behemoths and Nike On and hoka are running shoes. That's how Nike built its brand initially. Phil Knight was a running guy And they went into Portland in their backyard and started and started really getting you know, garning of huge Thing there and then like all and when I met we were a lot of my doctor friends are on the feet all day or clinicians They're like dude. I'm an honor hokas. You see him all the time. They're like. They're just so comfy man They're cushy. I couldn't play sports in my arms because mine are the really cushy ones But I feel like I'd had less stability, right? So I have a Nike I have Nike's for those, but um, yeah But it's there are different ones, but yeah, you can always find a pain point and solve it and it's if you can scale it And get your consumers to be on board and be loyal. There's there's opportunity right I want our founders to walk with that No, don't be afraid to tap into the market that's already there Yeah, and then I'd say from a venture perspective like the only question becomes how big is the market right exactly They're could in the same there could be a doctor's only shoe that's like the most comfortable shoe for doctors And if they sold to every doctor amazing amazing business, right is it venture scale? I don't know yeah versus Nike But like that's not a question of the quality of the business or the opportunity. That's just a question of size Yep, right. So like part of our job is also to look for size and that's that's just a function of our job What size is that market? What can you realistically obtain, right? Tams and so I'm right. I love it man. We should let's part here for a second. Let's just any cleaning shots So you're not a whiskey guy, which is I get it you're healthier than I am What was your drink of choice today when you announce it to the world? I just got a simple parier. You may have seen me kind of like even burping during the interview I'm not used to the bubbles, but you know, I apologize for that, but delicious water All right, awesome awesome. Is there a shit you should know that you want people like something that you're reading watching Listening to bumping on that you want the world to know or an organization? Yeah, man. I should I should have come more prepared. I'll list out two things one From a venture perspective one of the first books. I got this industry was called seven powers if you're like a If you're like a economics venture business kind of nerdy Person yeah seven powers. I think it's called the fundamental strategies of business or something like that fantastic book And it's just like it colors how I look at this work now So that's like that's more nitchie. The other thing I'd say is like I'm a Star Wars geek Okay, I'm gonna advocate right where we've got a season of Star Wars wrapping up tonight. I'm gonna advocate for like also pursue your other interests because one of the most helpful things you can do is not get too stuck in a lane and Have these different perspectives to pull from. I don't know if Star Wars is the best one But like it informs something to me that I look at a different perspective. Sure travel cook Listen to different music. Whatever it is It's the same as sports. I think there was data a long time ago that you know playing one sport over and over Actually, where is bodies down over time? And so like they were advocating for these multi-sport athletes as kids I'd say the same thing professionally like Not that you could have a career in every space, but have other interests because I can tell you if I just focused on venture all day it wouldn't make me any better of a venture investor is it would to go read a book about you know European culture, right? We talked a lot about that. There's opportunities to learn from that So like broad your rides always just be curious and find fun stuff to do. I love it man And alumni ventures are not you know, they have thematic funds in there and they also have their agnostic I think your group you said is somewhat agnostic right? Yeah, and then they've tapped you to come on with a sport We do both yeah, yeah I work on one of each. Yeah, so and and like I'm a huge advocate for investing huge advocate for athletes You know, I've been in those shoes of retiring and like what do I do now professionally and so if if there's anybody out there that wants to talk I'm always willing to do it. I think it's a really important Kind of wealth creation mechanism that we can enable here You want your money working for you while you're sleeping or hanging out, right? You work for your money and then also have that money work for you You know, so you're not just working trading your hours for a dollar yeah, that's what that's what all if you want And you know, you're great. I want to I want to we'll have you back on man. I'm gonna ask you one last question man Who's the face of the NBA moving forward in your opinion? Like who's top three guys? It's a hard question man Yeah, you know Right now my face the NBA is yokich But I I think it's a hard question because You got to be able to market and what I love about yokich is he's hard to market But like I think there's something there of like Just a humble fundamentally sound player and I I'm glad to see that influence But I don't know who's who's the flashier yokich it to be determined like you know, we were thinking like and it's it's easy for some And he's consistently like just hot. He's good right and he's maybe struggling this one because they have a good defense on him And this this playoffs, but like you saw like an Anthony Edwards, but then a year ago was John Marant, right? With guns and the strip club coming from the suburbs. I'm kidding. But you know, like it's this league shows you how hard it is to not only Repeat but then three feet like when consecutive like four or five times in a in a couple of years period So all these guys consistently doing it LeBron hats off to that dude. He's been consistently good for a long time, right? He need to go but you Who's your goat? Who's your goat man? You know I'm gonna take you here. Go MJ What why why all the way? I mean yeah, why? The signal I look for is this When I see other players who were the best of all time Charles Barkley. Yes, Reggie Miller Patrick Ewing, Simon Thomas, you know all these guys When I see people go oh, we couldn't beat Michael That's respect right that's it's a level of respect that like You earned in that field and I just I see people have it for him. He's just yeah people just knew they couldn't beat him Yeah, and it's yeah I agree with you 100% and it's and it's and it's not a knock on anyone else right people want to put Kobe because they're very similar players Um and and Kobe's phenomenal nothing to get LeBron is phenomenal But you can't be the greatest all-time if you're not the greatest of your time is kind of one of my statements Right, yeah, I mean you know like not in a mean way, but like there's people that you know LeBron had to get through to get to the finals Kobe had to get through but they couldn't sometimes and get to that and they get that championship Yeah, they won a lot both of them won one four for LeBron five or you can't knock that right. That's that's hot Yeah, um, I agree with you 100% on that statement and I really appreciate your being from Wisconsin I asked you for day one if you're a packer saying you said no, I'm not really in a football. I'm like all right cool come on the pile then Cuz I'm a scholar guys I'm a dismantled bear span it hurts my life, but I'm bad. I'm staying with them. Yeah, I got no horse in that race But yeah, man, I have become a box fan. I'm a big honest fan. I love the state of the NBA right now I think it's it's this great blend. It's good for the game That's what I like I love the game of basketball like I said earlier. It's been a massive part of my life it continues to be And I just think it's like the league the sport is in good hands and people are interested And they're pushing the game further and it's just it's amazing to watch man I love this conversation. I appreciate you coming on. No, we don't get this kind of perspective like an athlete who's been there Done it grinded out from as a kid all the way up through an adult life and the pros as well That's a hot topic, and I think our everyone's gonna appreciate it man. Um, they just come out. We're gonna have you out again Thank you. It's been fun man. I appreciate it. Of course, man [Music]