Wemby Gets Revenge, Morey’s Out, and a Trade-Fueled Mega-Mailbag With Kirk Goldsberry and David Jacoby

This episode is brought to you by Viore. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viore is my MVP. Sunday Performance Joggers, oh yeah. They have the perfect, I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the MetaPant, that's my number one, I need to look like I tried option. Get 20% off your first purchase at viore.com slash Simmons and discover the versatility of Viore clothing. Exclusions apply, visit the website for full terms and conditions. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new Rewatchables. On Monday night, we did Tropic Thunder as part of Comedy Month, which we tried to tie into Netflix is a joke. All these movies are on Netflix, by the way. So we did Tropic Thunder Monday. That was me, Chris Ryan, Van Lathan, and first timer, Joel Anderson. I'm pretty sure next week is gonna be Borat. So I'm just gonna be Borat. I'm just giving you a heads up. That's also on Netflix. They have a bunch of great comedies in general, including a bunch of comedies that we've already done on Rewatchables, like 48 Hours, Mrs. Doubtfire, and The Long Cape Polly, and Ghostbusters, on and on and on. So go check that out. Coming up on this podcast, Kurt Goldsberry and I are going to recap an impressive Spurs game five win over Minnesota. I have some big picture thoughts about this game that aren't even tied to game five. So we'll hit that. We're gonna talk about Daryl Morey getting ousted out of Philly. And then we're gonna go back in time because Kirk and Dave Jacoby and I did a mailbag on a whole bunch of NBA stuff, and it's really fun. So it's all next. We're gonna take a break, hit Pearl Jam, and then Kirk. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan. FanDuel, the best place to bet the team's players' plays during NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action right after tip-off, whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21-plus select states are 18-plus D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ This segment is brought to you by Ferrero. We are going to talk about Game 5. Spurs, Timberwolves in San Antonio. The return of Wemby after getting kicked out of Game 4. Kurt Goldsberry is here. He's going to be with us throughout the podcast because we're doing a mailbag with Jacoby later. I'll just tell you my basketball fan take coming out of this game because I really thought Minnesota had a genuine chance to win this series, and who knows, they might win 6-7. As a basketball fan, you're starting to really see the ceiling potential of where this Spurs team is. You're starting to see where this Spurs thing could go, right? Big spotlight, big games, more pressure now. It's like, who's going to fade from this? Who's going to jump up? And you're seeing some of their guys, Harper specifically, where it's like, oh, shit, like this might be happening sooner than we thought. Which is great because I've talked about this a million times. I like when we have great teams. That's what I grew up on. That's what I grew up on in the 80s and 90s. I like to see awesome teams. So basketball fan Bill is like, this is cool. Spurs, Thunder, this is going to be great. Celtics fan Bill, and what are we going to talk about for eight months a year, Bill, is kind of like, are we headed toward a world where we might be fucked here with this OKC San Antonio thing? Are they just going to be levitating above us for the next 6-7 years? Like, talk me off the cliff. Well, it's not a cliff where I'm sitting here in Central Texas. But yeah, dude, there was a moment at the end of the third quarter where I could see why Bill Simmons, the sports guy, would feel that way, specifically with Dylan Harper attacking the rim, finishing with his left hand, hitting layups high off the glass over Rudy Gobert's outstretched arm. Physicality, rebounds in traffic. I mean, it was the whole thing. Yeah. Stephon Castle guarding Julius Randle, making Wolves fans completely lose their mind with a Randle stat line that I'm sure we'll talk about. But yeah, these three dudes, and no disrespect to Carter Bryant, De'Aaron Fox, but when we're talking about the brightest futures in the NBA, I think the San Antonio Saints, the Spurs now have the best young trio in the league by far with Wemby, Castle, and Harper, dude. And I don't know which Castle or Harper is going to be better, but yeah, what are we talking about? We're talking about a 22-year-old Victor Wemby-Yama, a 21-year-old Stephon Castle, Bill, and a 20-year-old Dylan Harper making huge plays in a second-round playoff series. The Harper thing is crazy. We knew it was good. We've been talking about it all year. In the playoffs, the stuff he's doing, is like year three slash year four Kobe, where he's just coming in and changing the flow of these games. He shouldn't be doing this yet. Kobe came into the league right out of high school and had that really rocky first series. He didn't really start to look like kick-ass Kobe, I don't think, until midway through year two, which is where Harper is now because he's been here in college. But for point guards, this should take longer. You shouldn't look this comfortable. You shouldn't be a two-way player already. You shouldn't be coming to games and swinging games like he's doing. I was texting somebody about this. To me, I don't say this lightly. Having Harper and Wemby back-to-back, and I feel like I'm disrespecting Castle, but I think he's going to be third in this. We saw this when the Celtics added McHale and they had Bird. We saw this when the Lakers added Worthy after they had Magic. And we saw it when the Bulls had MJ and then they were able to get Pippen. I think Harper potentially is a second banana. I think it's realistic to think this is a guy who could be as good as those guys. That he could be a first-team All-NBA guy and a really impact-awesome second banana. You're watching it in real time. Everything we have learned about basketball, these teams happen faster than they thought. These young guys come up faster than you think. And I loved him already. I can't believe the shit he's doing in these playoff games. Yeah, it's the son of Ron. It's the son of Ron Harper. These moments where he feels the contact on the lane line and a lot of guards of any age would either go to the floater or look for a kick out. But he's like, oh, I'm going to lower my shoulder now and then go to this incredible finishing package I have through contact a lot of times. And it's just. But yeah, he has the best footwork, the best feel for the game of any young guard in the paint. There's times where I think, Bill, he really reminds me of Shea where he is just. He's the smartest scoring guard inside the three-point line of any young player I've seen. But he was spectacular tonight. And particularly in the third quarter. And one of the things that Spurs fans are. When it was starting to become a game in the third quarter and it felt like, oh, here we go. This is going to be an awesome game. We both love Luke Cornett. Yeah. But it's a roller coaster. It's like when LeBron came out for those Cav team and you're just like, oh my God, are we going to survive the non-LeBron minutes? Right. We just watched the lead go away. We had that in the second quarter in this game and it looked like, to your point, it was going to happen again in the third. And at that moment where Dylan Harper really made a few plays on both ends of the court that just grew the lead back to a comfortable margin. I'm glad you brought up Shea. I think that's a really good comparison and it's because of the patience and the footwork. That's it. He has patience already, which you should not have when you're 20. And he had the footwork coming in. That was one of the things that made him special. I talked about before I was going to those Quipper games when Shea was a rookie. Harper's just way ahead of where Shea was. We all liked Shea. We thought Shea was going to be really good. I thought he was going to be like this glue guy, athletic defensive guard. There was some offense there. You know, but clearly like a winning player. Harper's like, I honestly don't know what the ceiling is for him. I think as long as SJ has the best guard in the league title now and he's going to have it for the next couple of years and Edwards is right underneath him, but I think Harper at some point in his life will wear that crown unless he gets hurt. Well, that's what I would say. The ceiling is SGA. And I say that with a great amount of respect. I agree with you. He's one of the best guards we've seen in a very long time. But when we're talking about the ceiling of this dude, that's where I would say it. And to your point, like the Oklahoma City Thunder would not have SGA if he was this good at Dylan Harper's age. There's no way you would get off this guy. So I think, look, that's a, that's the ceiling. SGA is one of the best players in the world, if not the best player in the world. But Dylan is, I mean, you're the historian of basketball. 20-year-olds aren't supposed to do this in the NBA playoffs. Right, Bill? I was thinking about the first, McHale's rookie year, the Celtics won the title and he was a six man. They had Maxwell, they had Bird, they had Robert Parrish. Like it was a really deep team and he would come in sometimes and he would swing games because he had some low post stuff, but he had the defense. And, And there were times, especially in the philly series that year when he came in and his defense definitely affected the game and you're like oh this guy's pretty special like yeah there's really something there mikhail was like at least two years older than dylan harper i'd be like if dylan harper after his junior year was doing this and that's the part i know these guys you know that i know they mature faster now and i i know i get it like that like we shouldn't be surprised when somebody's 20 and impacting a series like this but you talk about later in a mailbag we're talking about dearon fox in a later segment and like you fox you think fox is going to be a bridge for a couple years until you can get to these guys and it's like do you need a bridge like what's harper going to be like next year with a year under his belt you know yeah that's where i thread the needle you do need the bridge and i applaud the move to get dearon fox but this is the best case scenario where you have the depth right now which was huge tonight you this series but you start to look out two years three years down the road you start to say maybe we have too many great guards and we don't have enough strength up front next to wemby um somebody to to to play with nazri and jayden mcdaniel's man they're playing their hearts out uh and that's where the spurs look a little thin to me it reminds me of the thunder pre-hartenstein where they're a little bit soft in the middle sometimes that's a good comparison yeah that so carter brian played 12 minutes today and keldon johnson played 22 and was great and that's kind of that's kind of their their patchwork size next to wemby they don't really necessarily i actually think carter brian's gonna end up being that guy um the the piece like i was thinking about in context with with the timberwolves who after game one i thought there was a real case like wow this is two straight conference finals for them san antonio's young not quite ready yet and i really felt like it was a 50 50 series after game one the odds didn't reflect that and now i'm looking at minnesota you know they got their asses kicked today what did they finish shooting 30 38.6 27.3 season average i mean they're a series average they're shooting under 40 and a lot of trouble well a lot of trouble against the defensive pressure sometimes and the one thing i was worried about with them even early in this series was like man they're kind of relying on mike conley here i don't know old guys in a series and then you look at tonight what was he 16 minutes five points minus six but it's this is mike conley um kudos to you you're playing at this advanced age but you see the young guys and the athleticism and the and the speed that these guards are at this is the san antonio advantage when they can just put any combination of all the young guards or you know if they put vasel out there or whatever um really the only team that has the kind of firepower to withstand it is probably okc yeah i'm really glad you said that there was a moment where our man stefan castle goes out with his third foul eight minutes left in the second quarter yeah and then you just see that depth coming in so important you see you know everybody from carter bryant harrison barnes dylan harper kelton johnson played the best game of of the series yeah but this is a deep team i think spurs played 10 guys before garbage time and they're not going to be able to do anything they're not going to be able to do anything they're not going to be able to do anything and really the the wolves are a thin eight there bill yeah they're like they're a seven yeah and that's because i mean dante di vincenzo and what i wanted to ask you about is is the ant man's not the ant man right now he's he's one of my favorite players to watch on the planet he i believe had fewer field goal attempts than io de sunmo um that is that's not a great stat um he is not attacking he didn't have that swagger as much today um there's they're going every other going on going every other day probably not great for him there's a three-day break so they don't play again until friday yeah could potentially help him it's really going to help mike conley um they they got to figure out the randall thing he didn't shoot he didn't shoot well again today there's another guy that we didn't talk about yet i'm really proud of us uh victor wambanyama oh yeah he the french guy right the one of the french guys i don't know if points early before they took him out yeah he had 16 points in like six minutes and it was a good um fuck everybody i'm still mad i got kicked out of game four i owe you guys he finished with what 27 17 and 5 3 blocks he's plus 24 32 minutes and uh so you have that piece too of well here's the thing that spurs fans love so he lays an egg in game one okay minnesota comes to san antonio steals one and he was he played like shit by his standards and so you're sitting here in game two people like you were like oh my god can minnesota win this series and the whole time victor is prepping to come out and he comes out in game two and the wolves don't score for whatever how many minutes and he was awesome uh and then obviously in game four he gets kicked out with the elbow deservedly by the way as much of a spurs homer as i am how was he going to come out in the biggest game of his nba career uh and he came out again on fire and just dominated the first eight minutes of this game with what was he as 16 and 11 in the first quarter yeah are you kidding yeah and if i'm okc thinking about the next series you know what am i getting from j-dub i need i need all my horses for this next series and i don't san antonio the question with them was well history of the league says dot dot dot nobody nobody under 25 can lead a team no title without having a taste of it first um no young team just that get thrown in the playoff fire can survive that first year and they're i i just feel like all bets are off especially with how castle's playing but on the okc side they're not 100 healthy san antonio you know knock on wood san antonio feels like they're running on all injury cylinders but with the with the minnesota piece pretty devastating like yeah you're in set you win seven playoff series over the last three years you kind of had a team built the league has these little three four-year windows with the way the tax works that you can and maybe okc in san antonio would be a little bit of the outliers because of their young guys but for the most part three four years that's what we just saw with the celtics and you try to catch lightning in a bottle for one of those years celtics caught it in 2024 they add holiday they add poor zingas and they're just able to you know um everything kind of aligns and they're just able to you know um everything kind of aligns and they're just able to you know and they're spending a ton of money if you're minnesota you just basically went all in you got rid of all your picks you're playing a san antonio team that this is the worst version of the team you're going to play for the rest of the decade right you had bad luck with deep vincenzo and you and ants not 100 but he's not 80 he's somewhere in between there gobert's going to be a year older you're not going to have conley you're not going to really have a way to get better this was kind of it yeah and i don't know if i'm tim connelly and i guess i'm not getting the dallas job because they gave it to messiah but i don't know what my move is at that point other than dangling randall everywhere i like their position a little bit more than you i think that i would say ant-man still 23 devon they remember there's a team without ant and devon chenzo that beat joker uh in a game six i like their core i could talk myself i think finch is a really good coach this is you know this is where i i wonder if our standards are too high for two minutes many teams like they made the final four of the last two years they have one of the best young players in the league can they get through with mcdaniel's ant-man gobert naz i kind of like that core bill and i don't know we'll see the one thing that i think you and i will agree on is it's very annoying to have alex rodriguez in the conversations because normally i would like yeah yeah i love these guys and i want them to do well but i was like yeah i wonder what a rod wants to do that just sucks for me as a red socks guy well it's interesting that you i mean i agree with you they made the final four two years in a row they went they knocked out denver i think they've done a nice job going toe-to-toe with with san antonio and the series might go seven for all we know and then it's not over who knows with young guys in a game seven i was just thinking holistically the goal is to win the title yeah and you have ant who is one of the best five or six guys in the league and you have this veteran team around him and you have a real identity and you you have defense and all kinds of things and it's tough man these windows close fast you just never know like we don't know gobert gobert i think has defied the aging stuff to some degree because usually we see these centers start to get a little mummy-ish and a little gamey right around now and i don't feel like 100 he has but the bigger thing to me is there's not a lot of moves and you're in this arms race with these two teams that an okc is 13 first routers over the next six years not to mention all the other shit they have not to mention aj mitchell emerging as like the breakout star the playoffs that we weren't expecting so um i don't know i'd be really bummed if i'm a wolfs fan because they never even made the finals yeah i kept wondering like man i don't know the math the salary cap is not my my expertise but like keeping nikhil alexander walker last year they could have used him in this series obviously their offense is struggling he's such a good player in atlanta uh he was well he would have he would have cost them like a hundred million dollars if they a year if they kept them like Like the way the tax is there, you're paying like three times as much for him. Yeah. So they, but yeah, that, that's like, you're alluding to it. Like the, the new CBA makes it nearly impossible to keep a contender together for five years, unless they're all rookie scale guys. Right. Unless you draft these dudes. Yeah. Right. Which is what the best teams in the West have done with RC Buford, Brian Wright and Sam Presti's work in Oklahoma city. So yeah, I don't know. I think Ant-Man's still going up. I think you have a lot to be happy about in Minnesota, but yeah, I think anybody in the West to your earlier point is staring at these two juggernauts now at the top of the standings, you know, like, what are we going to do? And by the way, we're not breaking new news. This has been a storyline the entire season. It's just feeling more real to me because I think Minnesota is really good. Right. They got their asses kicked in the second half of that game today, where it was like, Jesus, you know, and the home team's supposed to win a game five. I get it. But. Wait, let me ask you this hypothetical. It just feels like San Antonio is getting better to me, which is the part that would scare me if I'm Minnesota. They're getting better every day. Yeah. Here's my question for you. If Minnesota hypothetically in the Eastern conference is a three or a four seed this year, that team to go into the conference finals, right? Yeah. I, I would say, well, the Knicks are on this heater right now, but I, I think they're built pretty similarly with, you know, two teams that are, they have a little bit of a window. I think the Knicks are a little bit of a lightning in a bottle like the 24, 25 Celtics are where the way their roster is set up, it's only going to get more expensive, whether they're going to have the appetite to keep paying for it. We'll see. Yeah. Towns' contract goes up. Bridges' extension, I think kicks in next year if it didn't already kick in, but it just gets pricey to keep. Mitchell Robinson's going to be a free agent. What's he going to be worth? You do have these windows and I think the Knicks. competitive-wise, a guy going against the best guy on the other team, they have the pieces to at least throw some haymakers. But I would have said that about Minnesota, too. Yeah. I like Minnesota's position a little bit more than you. I think they're hoping expansion happens and they move to the Eastern Conference because all of a sudden their prognosis looks a little bit better, right? Yeah. Let me ask you this. I wrote this down. Of course, I'm going to ask you this. You're my only guest, and it's just the two of us. If we do get OKC San Antonio next round, I think this is the best series in eight years. Okay. I like this. Yeah. I'm fired up. Yeah. Now you can say, oh, there's been a lot of good series. I'm not talking about entertainment value. I'm talking about talent, ceiling of the teams, and the matchups. I went through all the—we've had a lot of entertaining series. I think you have to go back. I think you have to go back to 2018 when the Rockets played the Warriors, the series Chris Paul ended up getting hurt in, and the Warriors were going for back-to-back. I think that's the last one with this kind of level of two teams that are basically mid-'60s wins teams, maybe even better, that have a lot of guys at the peak of their powers or on their way up. And the last eight years, we haven't had a series like that. We had the 2017 Finals, and we had— 2016, Golden State versus OKC, and then Golden State versus Cleveland. I think those were probably the three best series of the last— four best series of the last 10 years. And talent-wise, next round would be on the level of San Antonio finishes. And it also—for the old guys like us, it's like, oh, this does start to feel like a power struggle that's more than a year long. It feels like it's going to be like this for a while, like a Pistons-Bowles situation or a Knicks-Bowles. thing, where it's just—we've had—there's thousands of those examples. But yeah, if that happens, Bill, like, Wemby and Shea, to me, they're the two best players in the world right now. And is that crazy, right? No, it's—I'm just—I'm finally giving up. No, no, no, Joker, I think he had his run. I think he's out of it now. Yeah, just some of the defensive stats we're seeing from Wemby, the fact that the Minnesota Timberwolves are shooting like 37% when he's on the floor, in five games, is—his defensive impact is so incredible. But yeah, I think there's two of the best players in the world, best young cores in the league, great coaches, great organizations. I think you're right to look at it like that. Well, one other thing— This has the makings of a classic. Malleability, too, with lineups. Teams that can throw different looks at you depending on what the situation is. Both teams can go smaller. They can play three guards. They can play three guards, a shooter, and a center. They can go bigger, too, to some degree. OKC probably can do that a little bit better because, as we said, San Antonio feels like they're maybe one bigger guy short. And then there's this roughing up Wemby thing, which, you know, it's funny, like, I didn't get a chance to talk about the game when he elbowed Nas. And, you know, it's slow-mo. Slow-mo makes everything look worse. But it did seem like he sized him up for a second. But it was also 15— Not to offend Wemby, but it was 15 small to medium things that led to him being mad enough to whip an elbow at somebody. Yeah. Because you could tell the whole series, Minnesota's like, let's keep banging on this guy. Let's keep fucking with him. Let's keep knocking him down. Like, just stay physical. Stay physical. I'm old enough to remember when this was the strategy against Kareem. Kareem punched, like, five guys. Including he broke his hand punching Kent Benson or breaking— Kent Benson's job. But Kareem, you could go find him on YouTube. Kareem knocked down or knocked out multiple guys because he would just get fed up. Shaq was the other one we had. With Shaq, I think only, maybe he tried to punch Brad Miller. There was a few others. But Shaq, they would always pull his shoulders. And you couldn't do the same stuff you did to Wemby. It was more like you tried to, like, kind of wear him down. Almost like a boxer when you keep clinching a boxer. And he would get frustrated, too. Wemby's going to have to deal with this his whole career. Minnesota's testing him. OKC has guys that will do it, too. This is why you have Lou Dort. And I remember when I worked at the Spurs, we used to complain about the contact allowances are so different for interior players than for guards. Even back then, last decade. It was crazy to watch, like, Draymond double-arm bar Lamarcus, for instance. Or Tim. And just like, OK, that's cool. But I think it's really— It's really interesting to compare the whistles of guards who attack versus a Wemby. Like, you cannot lay a finger on an attacking guard in this league. But the things that they're doing— And Minnesota, by the way, this is great. This is a very intelligent game plan. Do it until they call it. They did it tonight a couple times. Yeah. McDaniels shoved them out of bounds on the play, and they missed that. They teed up Nas for something they had been doing. And again, like— This isn't sour grapes. They hadn't been calling, especially in Game 4. But to me, it just really makes me think about how different the whistle is for different kinds of players. And Wemby gets fouled a lot more than get called. And that is as old as the history of the game, to an extent. But it's really frustrating in a time where our guards are getting so many ticky-tack calls to watch Victor get pushed around like that. Yeah, I don't like it either. Shaq, you talked to— Listen to— A podcast with anyone who played against Shaq. And they're just like, yeah, we fouled the shit out of them. What are they going to call everything? He's 380 pounds. Like, what else are we going to do? Or else he just would have dunked every time. I'll be interested to see, A, Friday night. I think they dial up all that stuff with Wemby. And you have the Minnesota crowd. You have Ant on the three days rest. You have a Timberwolves team. They're on the brink in a lot of different ways because— It's not going to get any better next year, right? The West is going to be— Denver will load up in some way. Utah is going to be out of nowhere a contender. The Lakers are going to try to, you know, improve the team. Dallas is going to be better next year. The West is just going to be better all the way around. And it's going to be hard to cement being the third-best team. What happens if Houston gets better? You know, you just don't— What happens if Giannis gets traded to one of those teams? You just don't— The Clippers are getting the number five pick. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Impressive Wemby game. I'm just blown away by the Spurs. Like, to watch young guys play like this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. This is something that should be two years from now happening. And it's just like— It's like listening to a podcast at 1.5 speed or something. They're hitting these check marks. Yeah. Like, the Harper thing just breaks my brain. Point guards don't do that at age 20. They're not supposed to have control of playoff games for eight, nine minutes. So, anyway, before we go, Daryl Morey got— Got fired today. Oh, our friend. The Philadelphia 76ers general manager. Friend of mine for a long time. I've always tried to stay, you know, always weird to talk about. But I always tried to be neutral. If they did stuff I didn't like, I would say it. If they did stuff I liked, I'd say it. So, you knew there was going to be a fall guy after a pretty embarrassing sweep to the Knicks where you had 70-80% Knicks fans in the last two games. And there's a couple different things you could probably point to. Embiid extension. The McCain trade seemed, for some reason, to be the catalyst for— Right. people to really turn on him and a good example of like Sam Presti has it right by never saying anything. Um, Daryl talks, you know, sometimes to his own detriment and made the sell high comment with McCain. The irony is he traded McCain cause they, they clearly told him to get into the luxury tax. Right. So there's a couple of moves you can make, maybe trade Grimes. I don't know if Grimes had any value to trade Grimes without taking a contract back, which is hard. And in the McCain case, they got picks and other stuff. And McCain was kind of buried behind two guards, but that became the catalyst. So, um, when I look at the job that he did in Philly, which was really up and down, like some, some really big hits and some, some misses too. Um, I guess my question, are they in a better or worse place than when he took over? Cause he was able to get them out of the Ben Simmons thing. Yeah. He was able to get them out of the Ben Simmons thing. He was able to trade Harden and get some pretty decent picks from the Clippers back. I mean, I think one of them's unprotected and in a 28 or 29, um, BJ edge comb, they pulled that off or they now have Maxie and edge comb as like the centerpiece for what they're doing. So to me, this isn't like a, Oh my God, this guy fucked our team up. But at the same time, I wasn't surprised at all. So why wasn't I surprised? Yeah. I think your worst contracts draft, which we'll talk about a little bit later is, is the number one. The number one reason when you look at what you guys had determined, the one and two worst contracts in the entire association right now, Daryl did those deals. He did it with Paul George and he did it with Joel and beat. And what do they have in common? These are guys on the wrong side of their prime and he is committed to paying them ridiculous amounts of money in this second apron era. Um, so that's what's, that's what's it. If they only had one of those deals, you'd be like, Oh my God, they have a really good team building opportunity here to get over, but they're handcuffed. I mean, if Paul George is going to be healthy or Joel and B's going to be healthy, but you and I have seen this for too long to know that's just not going to happen. Uh, so that's ultimately what it is. I don't think it's like a disgraceful firing. I just think this thing they needed to refresh it. I think Daryl will get another job. Um, but ultimately if I had to hang it on something, bill, I would say those two contracts, the Paul George and Joel and B that's what got it done. I would add a third one. And this would have been controversial, but I asked, so, you know, I was used to joke that Daryl has no emotion in any of this stuff. Like he's just going to do what, what the analytic move is at all times. Like that's the McCain trade. There was no emotion tied to that trade. Like if, if you and I were his conciliarities and he was about to make that trade, we would say, yo man, Philly fans really liked this guy. And if you do this and he goes and plays well in OKC, you're gonna be fucking pissed. And this is Philadelphia. Like, I don't know, like figure out another way to get into the luxury tax. Right. But he's, he's analytics. That's just the way he paused ahead. I said this at the time, the move was to trade and bead when, before the Knicks got towns, when the Knicks were clearly desperately trying to, you know, make that all these picks that made an impact. And they had a real relationship with them bead. They had worldwide West and they had beyond Rose who were like, those, those are in beads guys. Leon Rose was, that was his agency, you know? And I think out of anyone, they valued him the most. And you just had him bead coming off these two seasons where he played the most games he'd ever played. And it was like 66 and 63. His stock was never going to be higher. The history of centers and guys that size is usually going to start doing this. And I just think he could have gotten a fucking mother load from Philly. Now with the fans have been happy about it. I don't know. Um, but I think in retrospect, hard to say, but in retrospect, the move is like, I am selling high, not on Jared McCain, but on Joe own bead right now. Yeah, that's probably right. And one more thing on the McCain thing. I always like to laugh at, like if, if Sam Presti is very interested in one of your guys, hang up. Yeah. Go back and be like, Oh, what, what, what am I, what are we doing? Like that's our best player or whatever. Like don't trade with that guy. When Pat Riley was in his prime or RC Buford in his absolute prime and they were on the phone, people would be afraid to deal with them because they, they had such respect for these guys, basketball opinions. What do you, why would they want that guy? Oh yeah. Hang up the phone bill. The brewers are like this too. The red Sox have traded for him two years in a row with the brewers. They basically have Sam Presti and the baseball and got fleeced each time. So yeah. So for Daryl, this is a 20 year, run for him, right? He got hired by the rockets in oh six, took over the team in oh seven, had the whole rockets run, came really close, had some bad luck, especially Chris Paul getting hurt is a great injury. What if we have injury? What if every year, that's a really good one because they game seven at home, they were toe to toe with the warriors. The words were a little run down at that point from 15, 16, 17, 18. They were vulnerable. The team chemistry was going a little sideways. And I think, and then they miss all those threes in game seven. That was the closest he got there. And then in Philly, never really felt like that team was ever going to actually make the finals. I never felt like they were. Yeah. It felt like he sort of walked away from that Maury ball. I'm going to push the edge of the calculator over further than anybody else. And it felt like this, this Philly era Maury was more conventional just signing the superstars and maybe even antithetical. To some of the analytics movements, including like, Hey dude, have you ever seen an aging curve? Like don't overpay guys in their thirties. That's, that's not something we should be doing. So, you know, it never really felt like a Daryl culture had set, set up in Philadelphia. Like you're alluding to these legendary teams with Harden and D'Antoni in Houston that sort of changed the sport bill forever. And people say Steph and I agree with that, but that it was Steph shooting them. And it was Mike and Daryl building that whole team around the three point shot that changed this league forever. Also the spending isn't a small thing either, right? Yeah. You know, the Knicks are spending right now. That's one of the reasons they have a really good team. They've been aggressive golden state during the whole run, spent a ton of money to try, you know, try to put together good teams. The Celtics famously spent so much money that the dinner check came this season. They had to make all these trades or else they would have had to pay, you know, 300 million in luxury tax. Philly has not done that. They have not spent Philly and honestly, Philly. And I don't think Denver really has either. They've been two teams that had, you know, two of the best players of this decade, but always were pretty responsible with how they spent. I don't know if that would have made a difference with Philly, but, um, it did make a difference with little stuff like the McCain trade. My last thing is my first games were at the spectrum and Philly in the eighties with Barkley and Dr. J when they, they overlapped. And I was really stunned by the, um, the number of Knicks fans in this, in the building in Philadelphia. And I wonder if that played into it. I wonder, could you imagine that ever happening in Boston, uh, or Madison square garden? It was kind of crazy, right? Philly, I think has a stronger backbone than that. What are your thoughts? I never, if you go back to the Dr. J era, um, and even go back, you can go back on YouTube, watch some of their home games. not like huge crowds. I always thought when I was growing up, I always felt like they were a flyers flyer city more than anything like that was like their team and, and Phillies, obviously Eagles. And I always felt like the Sixers were fourth, even though they had Dr. J for this great run, felt like it started to flip a little bit in the eighties, especially after they won the title. And then when we got to the nineties, you know, they, they had a really bad run there. They trade Barkley. Um, and I, I just think that's an Eagles town first. And you know, I don't, I don't know if the Philly, if the, the Philadelphia 76ers ever got there. I also, the process was pretty weird, man. Like, like if we're going to do like a deep dive on, huh, how do you end up with 80% Knicks fans at a home playoff game? Maybe you got to look backwards at what did the process really accomplish? Cause you're, you're losing four years of fans. You have to look backwards at what did the process really accomplish? Cause you're, you're losing a chance. Young fans trying to decide on a team. It's like, should I like the Sixers? Well, they intentionally lose every year. I'm going to like the golden state warriors and Steph Curry instead. So I don't know. I'm sure there's a million different reasons for it, but I always felt like they were not like never really the main team in Philadelphia. I think that's safe to say. Yeah. Maybe that's, it is. And I, I was just surprised to see that. And again, like you watch these environments in Minnesota or in San Antonio tonight, it's like, man, these, these crowds are electric. There's no way you're getting, you know, 30% of the lower bowl for the visiting team and these arenas, but in Philadelphia, which I think is a pretty good sports town. It was just crazy. Yeah. It's a weird one. Well, we'll see what they're, I'm sure it's going to be tough this year. Cause I don't know how many jobs are available, but I'm sure he'll be lurking in some way and that I don't see him ever. He could be a great podcast host who knows. So as his friend, I would almost recommend, he didn't do that. Cause I feel like that would get him into even more trouble, but he would be amazing. Cause he, he doesn't always have the self edit, but no, he doesn't have the filter. No, he'll just, I don't know. if I'd want him to have a podcast, but anyway. And so end of an era with Philly. We'll see. We talk later in the mailbag about is there, does Embiid even have trade value? How do you even handle that situation? A whole bunch of good stuff coming. Me, Kirk, Dave Jacoby doing a big ass mailbag next. Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel. We are in full swing with the NBA playoffs. Every game, every possession, every swing, every zag, all of it matters. Hey, all customers on FanDuel get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger. FanDuel giving you better payouts. Same game, parlays, all NBA playoffs long. I'm going to take a swing on Twitter and the Cleveland-Detroit game. The last time I did it was Saturday, which I hit with the Cavs and with a bunch of Mitchell point overs. I had a bunch of different bets. I think all of them won except for the 36 points it up. I am going to do another one for game five. Leaning toward taking the Pistons at home just because I think this is really proving itself as a home team wins every game series. And until that doesn't happen, I like the Pistons. Lock in your bets, boost your odds, make the playoffs, pay off with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. I like Durin to have a comeback game in game five. Maybe that'll be in there. Head to FanDuel.com slash BS to get started. FanDuel. Play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming, restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.FanDuel.com. Uber Eats makes last minute gifting easy, whether it's Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduation, whatever. You blink, they're here. But just because it snuck up on you doesn't mean your gift has to feel like it. The Uber Eats gift hub has something for everyone. Flowers, perfume, champagne, even their favorite takeout order. Hmm. It can show up in as little as 25 minutes, even if you just remembered five minutes ago. The best part, you can add a video message and a personal note so it actually feels like you planned it all along. Order on Uber Eats today. Must be 21 or older to purchase alcohol. Product availability varies per region. See app for details. All right, we are moving back in time. It's mailbag. Me, Kurt Goldsberry, Dave Jacoby, we're recording this late after, late morning Pacific time. So if anything happens in the next eight hours before we go, before the Timberwolves-Spurs game, we're not going to apologize. We were all together in the 2014 finals in Austin, Texas when the Spurs, Tim Duncan, it was the last gasp of the Duncan era trying to pull off one last title. We were eating barbecue. We shot, shot all kinds of stuff. We went out. It was great. Jacobes, did you ever think the Spurs would be this relevant again? I felt like the last hurrah for them when we were there. I do. I did think they would be this relevant again. Because it's just very Spurs-ian of them to do this. You know? Like, there's only been a few dark Spurs years. And they're dark. But, you know, a lot of sunlight in San Antonio. I believe we also had Prince Jalene with us, if you remember correctly. We had Prince Jalene. We reunited some of the Fab Five. Jacko joined the Fab Five in the Chris Webber spot. It was emotional stuff. Kirk, did you think the Spurs, I mean, granted, they nailed the lottery three years in a row with three pretty obvious picks. That I don't think they should get that much credit for. But, three top four picks in a row and now they're back. But, were you worried that they were just going to become small market New Orleans for the next 30 years? I wouldn't go that far. I knew they would be back. But you're exactly right. Going one, four, and two in consecutive drafts. If the Spurs get that opportunity, they deserve the respect here. They were going to get that right. And not only did they get those picks right, those were great one, four, and two. Obviously, Wemby. Yeah. Castle's a great four pick. And man, Dylan Harper is a great two pick. So, dude, I think that the bigger story is like, I think that one, four, two run the Spurs just got to get them back to relevance is one of the big reasons we have new lottery rules. Well, especially, they were helped out that three teams passed on Castle was the other thing that really helped them. I thought he should have gone first. I have a bunch of mailbag emails for us. We're going to start with the lottery. And this is because it just happened. I don't know if you guys saw it, but the lottery happened. Yeah. I did. Mike, says on Monday's pod, you correctly pointed out how awkward and weird the half hour lottery telecast is. What about how lame the team representatives are when they're on camera? They just sit there stony faced. They barely even seem happy when the results are good. I am a 49 year old lifelong Wizards Bullets fan. I've been rooting for a team that has not won 50 games since I was two. My son and I felt like we were going to throw up during the lottery. We got in the top four bouncing up and down. We won. We screamed so loud our dog left the room. What? What if instead of putting executives or former players in these seats, we get super fans? Wouldn't that be more entertaining? Jacoby, who would you put in the seats as representatives? This is easy. You've come to the right place as a, you know, to put my producer hat on here. You treat it like a reality television show. So you cast the people that are best for television because the executives and the ex players, they've all been there, done that. They're sort of like when you, when you sit in the press seats at the game, you're not supposed to like cheer or like drink beer. It's boring. Like I'm going full reality television style and we're getting the craziest, most boisterous fans. They're going to lose their minds when their team does something good or bad happens to them. Like we're auditioning it. Like it's like American Idol season three. You agree with that, Kirk? Yeah, dude. The gravity of that moment, the telecast just doesn't match it. The cadence happens too fast. It's like, oh my God, what just happened? Like total, total craziness can happen. And like you said on the other podcast, like there's 15 minutes of nothing and then they, they don't. And it's not like I want the American Idol pregnant pause after pregnant pause when somebody gets voted out or whatever. But dude, they don't, the gravity of the moment isn't respected on the, on the broadcast. And I do think it would be fun to put Joe house and have Joe house with a six pack of beer and just let them get going. And let's, let's see what happens when, and they should have confetti fall. Yeah. Ultimately my thesis is this bill and you hit it on Sunday. The gravity of the moment and the gravity of these moments is monumental. We just talked about the spurs and the broadcast doesn't respect how important this is or how electrifying it is for these fan bases. Yeah. They seem very determined just to show us that everybody who's about to be picked as a parent and they're all excited to be there. And wherever I go, we've got like just the most generic, terrible interviews possible. And then we get, we meet all the representatives. I don't know why. It's not like we interview any of them. We just kind of see them for a second. I had no connection with them. Nipples like, why am I here? I had, so Jacoby, I had three ways this could go. And the, the, the fan thing, which Mike mentioned as well. So you have super fans, you have a contest, you basically cast the fan. You could even turn that into some sort of reality show where it's like, here's how we landed on the Wizards fan. Cause the thing is, we're all talking about who's going to win the lottery and tanking and all this shit for seven months. And then we just kind of rip through this lottery show in 10 minutes. Like it's like a, like a walk of shame for the league. They're just, they're just trying to get away with it. So celebrities, celebrity, I'm sorry, actual fans who want to contest then celebrity super fans as a second model where you do have like your Joe house, you have, you know, you go, you Atlanta Hawks, like pick anybody from the Atlantic music, Atlanta music scene, right? Gucci man could just be there as the Hawks representative and you just go through. And then it's like, we have an hour show and we talk to each representative. Here's my third idea. And I'm going back to the basics. And I think this is actually the best idea. I think the GM should have to be there as the reps. I think this should be part of the job. And the reason I mentioned this is you have Kevin Pritchard there who's just done this all time hit or miss trade where now it's a 50, 50 chance to either be in the top four or you lose the pick to the Clippers. What's better drama than that? Like we, the famous, the famous clip was Jerry West with the, with the Grizzlies, the LeBron one, right? Where it's like, if he gets the first pick, he gets LeBron second pick, nothing. It comes up Grizzlies or second and it just cuts to him and it looks like he's the guy in scanners who said it's about to explode. So Jacob's, why can't it just be the GMs? Like, Hey guys, if you're going to be a GM of a team, you're at the fucking ladder and you're going to be the representative and we get to see your reactions and this is just how it's going to go. And you have the GMs and the super fans sit side by side. So like the Indiana, super fan just can just like turn his head and look at picture and be like, look at what you've done. Why? You did this. Yeah. Yeah. And it just, I think Kirk hit something too. He's like the rhythm of it needs to dramatically change. Yeah. Because like let's, let's every reveal. Let's discuss, you know what I mean? Like let's discuss every reveal because it does like, sometimes my brain isn't fast enough to like figure out all of the, the machinations of what it means that that team is in that spot. And the host, the host always misses one. I think Malika missed in the moment that Brooklyn lost their pick for like five seconds. Well, Nagandi, remember Nagandi last year with the Sixers pick. Right. He was completely screwed. Well, that leads to the next question from Alex in Charlottesville. He said, now that we're going to have this new lottery system with the increased volatility, how would you redesign the 30 minute telecast? How do we space out the reveals? Could we draw 61 in front of the audience? So the NHL did this the last two years. My dad, probably the biggest fan of the NHL draft lottery, like really genuinely loves it. And this year, the Bruins, if the Maple Leafs fell from five to six, the Bruins got their pick. But they revealed that the picks in the correct order from one down and the Maple Leafs won the lottery. And he said, even though it sucked for the Bruins, it was amazing. So I think it could be an hour. I think you reveal the picks. You reveal the first pick first, and then you go backwards through the top four or whatever we have with these lotteries. And I think it's the actual GMs. And you just do it that way. And then you have like 20 minutes after where you can explain to the audience all the ramifications. Why not, Kirk? Why can't we do it this way? No, that's the way it should be. And it should be somebody like you and Zach and Bobby Marks reminding us what this means for the Dallas Mavericks or what this means for all of these. So would you stop after each pick for like two minutes? Yeah, I would. I mean, and Jacoby's the TV producer here. So I'd turn it to him. Jacoby, why can't we just have a full minute or two? Just be like, what does this mean for the Dallas Mavericks? What does this mean for the Mavs? Let's reset where they are. What are the TV people thinking? I mean, yeah. I mean, that's exactly what I just said before. And another thing is, I want to take it all in. I want to soak it in. It happens so fast. Right, you need time. We pay such close attention to this league that even I am racing up to keep up with the pace of the thing. Why? Why are you doing that to me? Make it more dramatic and make me fully understand exactly what all of this is. It would be funny if the Oscars did it this way and they did like this three-hour show. And then the last like two minutes, they just raced through the best five categories. Best picture, winner, one battle. So last year when it was, it was, it came down to the Spurs and the Mavs last year. Right. And it was like, holy shit. Are the Spurs going to get Cooper flag? Like, right. You need to take like five minutes just to that needed to be like five minutes, dude. Like, oh my God, this is incredible for the state of Texas. First of all, but, man, if, if the, if it's going to be when being Cooper flag, yeah, like let's have five minutes there. Yeah. All right. We all agree. Uh, Derek from Indianapolis wants to know as a lifelong Pacers fan, I have to ask, did the Pacers sell their soul for all the insane playoff comebacks in 2025? Because since then game four of the 2025 finals became the Scott Foster experience. Game seven ended with Hal Burton's Achilles. Hal Burton, became the only NBA player to get shingles and put on weight and is on all the, has to recover from that too. And they lost their top four pick and it went number five to the Clippers. Most fan bases lose the Pacers specializing cosmic level timing. What was the exchange exactly for those comeback wins? Jacoby, do you, do you believe in the cellular soul theory, the Hal Burton shot going up in the air? Like, do you, do you think the karmic forces have to like balance each other out? Um, I have good news and bad news for Derek. Um, the bad news is absolutely. Yes. I mean like absolutely. Yes. The shingles thing and the weight thing because of the medication and they, this big trade for Zubach who was like great two years ago, but this year Clipper Zubach was not like tearing it up and then lose the pick. But the good news for Derek is he'll be the super fan representing the Pacers. What do you think, Kirk? Do you believe in this stuff? Uh, no, that's not my job, but I think they need to be thankful. They have Tyrese Halliburton guys that you have one of the best point guards in the league. This guy is offensive efficiency in a can. He had one of the more electric playoff runs we've seen last year. We just need to get that guy's foot and ankle, right? Uh, and there'll be right back where I think they should be near the top of the East next year, Derek. So that's kind of near where I landed last year. It was an amazing ride for Pacer fans. Like it didn't get better than that. I can't think of a more fun, playoff run where they became the most memorable thing about the playoffs, even though they didn't win the finals, which never happens, right? You think about the 25 finals, I think of the Pacers before I think about anything else that happened. So it wasn't terrible. They still have Tyrese and Siakam. They have Zubach, Nembhard, uh, Neesmith, Toppin, TJ, Jairus Walker, Shepard. They have all of their firsts except one. And they were losing Miles Turner either way last year. So you know, um, the free agent centers this year, weren't that good. Maybe Hartenstein's in there, Robert Williams, Nurkic, maybe Deandre Ayton. So you could argue they needed Zubats. Um, the counter though, to that Zubats trade. And the part that never made sense to me, what happened is why did you have to do it in February? Because if you get the fit, even if you get the fifth pick or the sixth pick, I still feel like the Clippers are gonna be like, yeah, you can trade us that for Zubats. Let's do it. That the risk didn't match the reward because I don't like making trades that are still gonna be sitting there a few months later. They just could have traded Toppin's contract and something smaller and, and the number five pick for Zubats and not giving up the other first rounder that was in there. So I, I just, I never thought the risk matched the reward. And I, I thought Jacob's, I thought even they could have put like a, like a thing like, well, if this becomes the fifth or sixth pick in this draft, then we get our 29 first back or something. Cause I like Zubats, but it just doesn't match what the reward was. I don't think. Well, I don't want to like be too second guessy after the coin flip went heads instead of tails. You know what I mean? But I do want to say that I do like Zubats as well. I thought that like him and Harden were a great duo a couple of years ago. But when I think about the Pacers team and that electric run that you're talking about, what do they do? Like they get out and run like they don't want you to set up your defense. Like they don't want to be in the half court. So Zubats getting the rebound, throwing it out and then just kind of standing under his own basket. Go ahead guys. Like, go ahead guys. You guys take care of this. I'll be here. Well, the other thing Kirk is you do a trade like this and it's 50, 50 odds, right? If they get the pick Pritchard's a hero, you don't get the pick. Now your fans are, are kind of looking side out at you, but now you put Zubats in a tough spot too. Who's a really good player. I voted for him 13 mile and be a year ago. Um, but now you look at him and you just watch him during games. And you're just thinking about if like, if Keaton Wagler's awesome for the Clippers, right? Um, you're just constantly thinking about that. As you see Zubats, the other thing I didn't like about the trade was before the trade deadline, you do it. And we thought there was a top four. And then we still knew after that, the draft was good, but we knew there were four guys and that's probably how the Pacers assessed it. But where you're not factoring in is who's going to make a leap in February and March in college basketball. And what happened was Wagler and Acuff made a leap in February and March in college basketball. And they're not in the top four, but they're really good value at five or six. And that's why I just would have waited. I feel like this trade would have been there in May Kirk. Yeah. I wouldn't have, I, as somebody worked for a small market team, like you're just taught, like don't trade your first round picks, especially when you're near the top, like just don't do it. Like we're not, we're not playing in the free agency game. Free agency is largely dead anyway for everybody. So like these draft picks, you have to be very, very sort of protective of, if you're in a market like Indiana, especially you're not paying the luxury tax. Yeah. Right. So when they made the deal guys, it was like a Russian roulette moment. It was such an incredible moment. Like for that lottery again, go back to the broadcast. Like that was a moment where the producers needed to be like, we need to give this the gravity it deserves after it happened. Right. Either the Clippers fans are going to go crazy or the Pacers fans are going to go crazy. And it just, again, it blew through it, but man, I would not have done the trade just to be a market guy. Don't give up a lottery pick. If you're the Indiana Pacers. Mike Rohr emails us about this. Um, he's, he said how in the podcast Sunday, I didn't see a conspiracy for the Pacers. Like the Pacers not getting a pick actually didn't conspiracy bill was not triggered by that. Mike Rohr says there was a conspiracy potentially, and he doesn't have a dog in the fight. He said the Knicks are set up to be good next few years. So are the Celtics, maybe even the Sixers three big markets. Do you think the NBA really wanted small market Indy to get better and spoil the East party when they have small market juggernauts in Oklahoma city and San Antonio? Could they have had a third one? That's all I've got. That's the conspiracy. I don't know, Jacoby. I kind of like it. I'm not buying it. Okay. I appreciate the effort. The part we said the Sixers are like set up to be good for the next three years. It's like, really? Like the fall George making a hundred million dollars. Yeah. We'll be most about that later. All right. I respected that. He tried Dan from Tucson says, I'm sure you must feel conflicted with, with Jalen Duren after the playoffs so far, a beast of the regular season. Many voted for him for all NBA, including, uh, I voted second team. What'd you vote for him? Goldsberry Jalen Duren second team. Clearly. Yeah. And then he says, on the other hand, he's been awful in the playoffs getting punked by Wendell Carter. And now the Cavaliers restricted for age in the summer. What would you do as the Pistons GM? Would he get a max offer from other teams? Do you match it for your trade sign and trade? Please help podfather. I'm a Pistons fan in crisis. Well, you're, I think you're gonna make the conference final. So, uh, calm down a little Dan from Tucson, but, um, it's a really weird one. He game for, um, it, that might've been his worst playoff game at all the bad playoff games. And what was interesting was Mobley. Really? I thought Mobley was awesome in game four. I thought he really, you could feel him in the game, which has always been my disappointment with Mobley. It's like, sometimes I don't know. I'm not sure you're even out there. And yet game four, you felt, him the whole game. I guess the problem for the Pistons is, is during such an obvious Lakers offer sheet guy, Kirk, if they're going to have cap space and you could keep Reeves obviously have Luca and then during and make that your three, like I'm just doing that. I'm overpaying him. And then I can feel like I can do around the fringes. I think he could also be a Clippers offer sheet guy too, but I think somebody is going to offer him at least 40 plus a year, regardless of how he looked in the playoffs. Right. Yeah. And then they're going to match it because you're the Detroit Pistons. You don't get Jalen Dern date. Jalen Dern is 22 years old. Yeah. It's his first real, I guess they had a deep playoff run last year, but it has been disappointing bill 20 and 11 in the regular season, clearly all NBA caliber by my standards, but he's dropped down to essentially 11 point a game, eight rebound a game guy. And in the Orlando series looked like the second best big man in the series behind Wendell Carter. Right. It's not good. Uh, but yeah, again, you're the Detroit Pistons. We're not getting cute. Uh, we are going to make the conference finals. I hope if we, if we finish the series out, uh, and he's a big part of their success and their plan. So you're just doing it. You don't even care. Okay. What's the other, what's the other play? You kind of have to do it. I want to give him credit to my mismatch co-host Verno. Cause he flagged this like two months ago. He was like, you're in a spot where you're going to have to pay Jalen Duren and he, you know, dedicate so much of your percentage of your salary cap to him. And like, maybe he doesn't deserve it. And maybe him underperforming in these playoffs is actually helpful to the Pistons, but I would be concerned about this. Um, where I, I, I don't know if I'm ready to just sign Jalen Duren to the max. I'm like, I'm Cade and Duren forever, especially after what I saw in the playoffs. Right. It's tough because we've seen teams get in just incredible trouble with this. I kind of feel like Memphis with Jaron Jackson. Was a little similar, right? I don't feel like he's a guy that should be making close to max money or max money. And, and it kind of bore out the worst one ever was Bradley Beal. But we see with this max stuff, especially with the way they changed the caps, you know, the, the way the cap works, you basically only get two of these. So they're going to have to do it. And they're just going to have to hope that he had a bad playoffs. He's 22 and the pressure of the contract that was looming kind of scattered his brain a little bit. Cause I'm watching him and it's like, this is not the guy I watched in the regular season. The guy in the regular season was so confident, so physical, um, was so good around the basket. And this guy feels like he's second guessing everything he's doing. So, you know, I, I can, I can, it's understandable if you're 22 and you have 230, $40 million waiting for you, you're trying to win a title and you're just, you put too much pressure on yourself. So really tough on Jacob's. I don't know. Um, the, uh, do you remember when Cade was out? Like he was, he stepped up and he was getting 30 point games and stuff. That's what I really believed in Jalen during, but I'm watching the game last night. I'm like, I kind of like B-ball Paul in that spot. I'll take people seriously. Like watching the game. I was like, that guy jumps off the screen. Like if I can, if I can, if I'm watching a playoff game and I'm like, I'd rather have B-ball Paul out there, then my max guy that's concerning for me. We got an email. I didn't even put it in the document, but, uh, is B-ball Paul, the best third string center of all time. Can you tell us that? You researched this. And I was like, I'm definitely not researching that, but if anyone has any thoughts on the greatest third string centers of all time, please, please send them Gabe from orange County. I got this a few times. I'll give it credit to Gabe first. Um, he, he was talking about how I suggested Oklahoma city FC as a thunder nickname because they flop like a soccer team. And he doesn't understand why that's not just okay. FC and he, he, he's saying he'd even buy a hat. What do you think? Jacob's okay. FC hold on a second. Multiple people wrote you about this because they were saying, they're saying you screwed it up. It's not Oklahoma city FC. It should just be okay. FC. Okay. CFC is like, there's a, there's a team here and why CFC, it rolls off the tongue much better than okay. So you go, okay. CFC CF. Yes. Okay. CFC. We have an NYC FC here. Maxi Morales is my favorite player. Okay. CFC Goldsboro. We have a lot, but it does not give the fried chicken that okay. FC does. It gives a lot of that makes house hungry. Sounds like you want some lemon pepper, a lot of good benefits. All right. This is a good one from Andrew ball. He said, I know you tend to avoid draft. What ifs, but that the warriors 2020 and 2021 drafts changed the trajectory of the leak. There's not a lot of precedent for a team as good as the wearers getting three lottery picks in a two year span. And they pretty much whiffed on all three. What if they hit? I'm not sure if they hit multiple picks or traded them for real town. So I've talked about some of this before about Wiseman or LaMelo COVID draft. They can't work out any of those guys. There's no March madness understandable. Um, they could have jumped back maybe in, in traded for Tyrese, but they claimed that nobody wanted to trade up. But even if you look back, could they have talked to traded to trading up to two and they go back to seven and instead of Detroit taking Killian Hayes, they get LaMelo. And then the words take Auburn, whatever. That's a lot of what if stuff 2021 is more simple. It's basically, they took coming over Franz and they took Moody over Trey Murphy. Um, it's pretty crazy. A that they went over three and then B that they won the 22 title. Anyway, the part that I was interested in guys, the trades that they missed out on with those picks that they had just done, like the LeBron Cleveland thing. I've been like, fuck it. We're trading these picks. Let's get a player. The best players traded. Yeah. From November, 2020, because we were post COVID through March, 2021 drew holiday six days after the draft. So that I Wiggins would have had to be in it, but maybe, maybe you could have said, we'll give you the number two pick and Wiggins for drew holiday. I don't know if that Portland would have, I'm not, I'm sorry. New Orleans would have thought that was a better one, um, hardened to the nets of March, 2021. I don't think that would have been a fit Vucevic March, 2021. There's no way the world would be given as much as Chicago stupidly did. Here's the one that jumped out at me though. Guys, Aaron Gordon, March, 2021, pre-trade deadline basically is like Gary Harris. Hey, another, you know, who, who is that guy? RJ Hampton. And then, uh, and then a first, the words could have traded like the number seven and new brave for Aaron Gordon and had Aaron Gordon from heading into the 21 playoffs on versus, I don't know, France. That's a, that's like a, not a, not a small what if right. Aaron Gordon turned out to be like this huge playoff guy. He would have been perfect for them. It's a fun. What if, but like, again, like it's easy to say now, because at the time I was like, James Wiseman is the perfect fit for the warriors. And then I was like, this is going to go great. He can shoot. He's big. He can defend. I was like, this is an absolutely what they need at the time. What if you traded the cominga pick for Aaron Gordon? I mean, I mean, Aaron, I mean, you know, they, they would have obviously gone on a much better run and also the whole like two timelines thing. Aaron Gordon fits perfectly with, you know, the, the timeline that was winning the championships. It would have, that would have been, I think that was the mistake or like, well, no, just because Curry's not a guy who's going to demand stuff to you. You were at the Spurs when Tim Duncan was there at the tail end, same thing. When you have pressure from your star to do anything, you could try to do that dumb two, two timelines thing. And meanwhile, looking back, it's like clearly the move would have been Aaron Gordon, I think. Yeah. And look at the 2020 draft and you alluded to this was a complete, you know, cluster F whatever, like nobody could see anybody. So you almost gave him a pass on Wiseman. I do think the next one is the more interesting one to look at for what they did and what a team in their position should have done. Like put two doing cominga and Moody. I appreciate what they tried to do there. They missed on their players below Moody, especially I think Shen goon is in there. He was. Um, and yeah, you said Trey, I'm looking again. Um, Jalen Johnson is in there. Cool. Like that team would have been much better if they drafted Jalen Johnson. Um, but they didn't and draft is really hard. Uh, but yeah, I think it is probably in retrospect, you put a bunch of 30 year olds next to stuff and for one last run, but, uh, yeah, it's a hard one. The bigger issue to me is for whatever reason in that cluster of years, which is like a year and year plus, there weren't like a, a bunch of amazing guys to go to get your coats. Bill. So if you're going to go back in time and change time, I don't know, you're familiar with the, like the films of time travel films. Have you ever seen any of those? You have to remember that, that, you know, that there's, if you put Gordon on the warriors, what does that do for your guy? Jokic. Right. And what does that do for the 22 finals? Yeah. It's, it becomes a back to the future thing. It screws up a lot of stuff. Yeah. Hey, Gordon was a good guy. He was a pretty polarizing. He was a pretty polarizing trade asset though, because people were like, what is he? Is he, is this somebody that would be happy being like a complimentary player? Does he want to be the guy? It was a little similar to what a good was. All right. Jacobs. This one's specifically for you. It's from Jake, Jake in Illinois. This happened like three weeks ago. I noted it. Did you see the Laker playoff game with an approximately four month old baby sitting courtside next to the Lakers bench on its mother's lap? the fuck? What are these parents thinking? Do people not understand what a six what a 240 pound person hitting you at full speed feels like and the damage it can do to a baby. Who intervenes here? Who's at fault? It's pure insanity. Should the sports are way in? I'm on the record always. I don't think anyone under like five should be courtside at a game. I've seen, you see it, I don't know, once a week, you see somebody go flying to the stands. I think it's irresponsible. I would never, I brought my eight year old daughter to a WNBA game in 2013. I think I felt a little safer on that one, but I just wouldn't in a million years, bring a four month old baby anywhere near courtside. Jacoby, you have, you have seven kids. How many kids do you have now? I know it's not a new one. I've eight now. So that baby was essentially like an expensive handbag for that family. It's an accessory. Like that baby. One of my big things is like, if a baby's not gonna remember it, we're not going to Disney world. If the baby's not gonna remember it, we're not throwing you a one-year-old birthday party. Like until you can remember things, you don't. Experience things also put that baby to bed. It's nighttime. Like, what are we doing? It's like, they are just bringing the baby to be like, look at my baby. Like it was a hundred thousand dollar watch or something. It's like, that's a fashion accessory. A look at me. I'm a Laker fan in the front row thing. And like, I don't know, the safety of the baby is whatever, but for me, it's more just like, this is stupid. Well, you're, you obviously, the other thing would be like, oh, I took the baby. Cause we couldn't find a babysitter. You're sitting courtside. I'm pretty sure. I don't know where you stand on this one. Well, I, yeah, it is dangerous down there. I mean, you watch this Wolf Spurs series, like dude, there, there will be at least drinks spilled. If not human beings spilled over there during these games. I think that is a sound. It reminds me of the exit row seating on an airplane. If you bring a kid on an airplane, you can't try to get to that Delta exit row. That's not happening. Right. Um, it seems yeah. It's in, in baseball too. It's like they have net everywhere. It's like, maybe we should be thinking about this, especially with kids under like three or four years old. Right. Yeah. Cause there's two different ways you could have the person just flying in full speed, like, uh, doing the Roman reigns spear on you, basically trying to get a loose ball. You also get the person who tries to dive over the court side, but then they kick their leg and you get like the whiplash kick in the head. Uh, either one of them, not good for a four month old baby. I just, I thought that was crazy. I think that should be an automatic loser seats. Remember the Austin Reeves pass last night. He just, he just, there's a left-handed just threw the ball right in the front row and it hits this guy's drink and explodes the drink. Like if that's a baby instead of a drink, like that's a huge implications there. Yeah. That would be bad. Should Austin Reeves go to, would he go to jail if he did that to a baby Jacoby? No, the parents go to jail. Oh yeah. Let's uh, we're gonna take a break and come back with some Joel Embiid questions. Oh yeah. All playoffs long. I have been sifting through the slate and putting my favorite bets and parlays from Fandle sports book on my, uh, Twitter feed, tweeting them out, trying to get as close to the game as possible. I share my favorite parlay along with possible add-ons. We hit on Friday with the, uh, with the Cavaliers and a bunch of different Mitchell point totals, depending on how aggressive you wanted to get, uh, for game five, Pistons Cavs, the home team has won every game in this series. I think it continues. This is a, a prove it game for, for Durant. I actually liked the rebounds for him. I think this is the biggest game of his career, especially with restricted free agency coming and, uh, I like the Pistons in that game. So I'll have some sort of bet for that, uh, futures Knicks funder for the finals is even odds right now. Um, it's probably the last time that will be the case for, for the rest of the playoffs. So if you're interested in that Brunson, I think for the finals MVP is eight to one, which if you like the next, I think they're six to one to win the finals. Uh, just take the Brunson finals of B anyway, when I bet, I bet with Fando, a brand, easy to build NBA bets of all types. On Fando. And I know I'm getting great odds, payouts in my parlays boosts every day and I'll get my winnings instantly. Fando join me, play your game. This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays, but there's a whole other team. We rarely think about the people who make the game possible. The workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to be a part of the team. Proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com slash join the trades for adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms. Every choice matters. Tram fire offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tram fire is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tram fire, proper training is required. Tram fire is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tram fire today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tramfireradio.com. All right. Joel Embiid email from Frank Farrell. He said the Sixers unexpectedly beating the Celtics wouldn't beat enough goodwill that all my friend chats after the absolute Nick thrashing subtly shifted from the Sixers should swallow Embiid's money just to move on psychologically to the Sixers should trade Joel for peanuts to give him a shot. Somewhere else. What insane careers he has had. My question, does winning an MVP automatically get you an automatic place in your hall of fame pyramid? If so, who is the lowest MVP in the pyramid? It has to be between Embiid, Derrick Rose and Westbrook. Well, I have Embiid and Russ in my, in my pyramid. I have, they're level two guys. I have Embiid low seventies and I have Russ in the sixties. I do not have Derrick Rose in the pyramid and I don't even really think it's debatable. Like you go through his career. It's basically the 2011 season when he won the MVP and made first team on Bay. It was the only first team on Bay he won. And I just don't, I don't think it's enough to, to be like one of the best hundred guys in the history of the league. When I was researching this though, in 2021, he finished ninth in the MVP voting. Are you guys aware of this? There was a fan gross. There was a fan vote, which he won and he got 10 points and finished ninth. in the top 10 for MVP. Jacobus, is Rose a top 100 all-time guy for you? Or how do you assess his career? It's a weird one. This is much more your lane, Bill. I don't know if you know this. I don't keep up moving, running. Yeah, but give me your Derrick Rose peak stuff. I'm ranking up top 100 players of all time. No, give me your peak Derrick Rose. That's the thing is peak Derrick Rose is top 100, but the peak just didn't last that long. It's a very sharp point at the top of the mountain, you know? That's how I feel. For me, I look at it more or less like counting stats and stuff. It's just like how he, like, you know, we talk about like role gravity and gravity on the court. Just like fan gravity towards Chicago. Just attention, you know, barbershop discussion. Derrick Rose sort of conquered that and led that and had a little bit of like an Iverson coolness factor in a different way. Remember when he didn't dance at the All-Star game? Like he was just like, he was sort of like cool in a different way than Iverson was, but at the same, in a comparable level. Like he sort of had like a, a culture implications too. He was incredible in person. I just think to me, Kirk, he's in the, he's in that group of just awesome guys where the career, they either had bad luck with injuries or bad luck with something else. And he's like first ballot for whatever that group is. But I don't think that career was there for. No, but it wasn't there for a reason. Like his body broke in the NBA playing this way with these guards doing what they're doing now this off and they're going to break their knees and it sucks. And I don't want to penalize. Guys like that who are clearly all NBA level players, MVP caliber players. And if I'm ever going to be in charge of MVP or a hall of fame consideration, like Derek Rose is going, like, I love what Jacoby said. Culturally, he's important to the sport and its fans. Um, you can point to it season in Chicago. Like he is more significant than a lot of people that are currently honored in that museum. So that's a different combo. And I agree with that. I think if you win the MVP, you're in the hall of fame. Yeah. Which is a little different than the. Pyramid because there's a little higher, like the top hundred guys ever, but hall of fame. I think I'd be peace around. You're the best player in the best league for one year. That's probably, that's probably enough. I would say, wait, can I ask you an unbeaten question? Yeah. How did you react after on the heels of the Celtics series, watching Joel do what he did against the Knicks? I mean, I wasn't surprised. Were you guys, it felt like he could, he had a good week in him. Right. Remember I was in. I was with you in LA and that Chris Ryan was like, we should sit him out. Game one. And you brought it up before game one. He was CR was saying like, we should maybe even sit him for both games. We all saw it coming right now. It's it's Jacobs. It's like a pitcher that maybe has an 85 pitch start every six days and you just have to kind of craft the rotation around it, but what I thought, honestly, I thought the same thing happened to LeBron in the round two, like just going every other day when you're 41 years old. That's just, I, you know, there's certain things, the schedule is unforgiving. i i don't think imbeed was dramatically different between the celtics and nick series i thought the nicks did a much better job of well that's also true yeah i agree you know like you mean putting him in pick and pops all the time yeah yeah make him defend in space sometimes if i have a fat guy covering me and pick up i'll run from one side of the court to the other you should have just done that you know what i mean yeah and the nicks had better guys to throw at him too than i think the celtics did and also the nicks are just playing out of their minds like that that seven game run they had with all the blowouts it was about as good as you're going to do in the playoffs so yeah eight game run eight game run you end up with the celtics team that seven seven they you end up with the celtics team that's trying to figure out what they are on the fly and then you go into this next team that kind of figured it out and that the towns thing did you jacobs did you watch towns and we're like why don't they use them at the top he could be like bill walton because i don't ever remember you saying that to me no um no he has like over his next tenure he has a ton of like really fun highlight passes sort of like behind the back out of the post stuff for like you know like some like sort of yokichi like someone makes a back cut and he threads the needle so that he's shown that ability in flashes but not with this kind of quantity that i i did not say you know we should do make him the fulcrum of the offense at the nail let's do that they definitely kirk wanted to be a little more or a little less brunson centric i think would have been the criticism and it was like you know kudos to them for figuring out 85 games into the season but it was a really good wrinkle like once once they figured out how to not be so reliant on brunson it was like the whole team took off well it helps when cat stays on the floor i'm gonna say some really nice things about him but man some of these fouls it's like dude don't be that stupid you're too good for that but yeah i think fred katz on zach low show yesterday had a great stat that that the towns is touches per one point and i think that's a really great stat that that the towns is touches per one point and i think that's a really great stat that that the towns is touches per one point and i think that's a really great stat that the towns are way up in these playoffs compared to the regular season just another analytical piece of evidence that you guys are exactly right they are they are relying on him to be a centerpiece of this offense and a passer in a way that we hadn't seen and credit to mike brown here too like this guy took a high stakes job and this nick's run is featuring a lot of depth and a new look towns and to your point bill yeah a little bit less brunson hero ball kind of stuff you know you know what this reminds me of jacobs a guy by the name of dave jacoby pick up our pickup basketball days just keep them involved water the plant if if jacoby's running the floor reward him for running the floor give him the ball if you go a little half court run a little pick and pop with jacobs every once in a while it's a little pouty sometimes yeah you know what let's start rebounding more just kind of water the plant a couple things about cat is you're completely right um is the the the offensive involvement creates defensive involvement like they're related his defense has been much much better and also like you know you guys aren't on like nick's reddit and all my next group chats and everything but like the whole story of the season it was like november he's like i don't know my role in the offense it's not clear yet and then it was like january he's like i just don't understand my role in the offense and it was like a month ago like i was he's like i still don't really fully understand my role in the offense and it's like well i'm glad we figured that out and then he's like i don't know my role in the offense and it's like well i'm glad we figured that out and then he's like i don't know my role in the offense and it's like well i'm glad in game four of the first round of the playoffs you finally figured out your role in the offense under my listen some things take time one more imbeed one this one's a little more interesting just from ted and that was all he gave no town the bear early rumors are that daryl will be out in philly i'll believe it when i see it uh can we do a deep drive and dive into possible trades for imbeed my dream trade would be imbeed for kd that's not happening does imbeed make sense for anyone jazz kings pelicans imbeed please tell me there's some option all right he's got three years 200 million almost left this is these are the only four teams i could possibly come up with the pelican straight up for zion pelicans just roll the dice hope he gets healthy i don't see them doing that especially they're not exactly uh a lavish organization so i'm gonna say no on that kirk yeah it's a no for me dog just shaking his head one context question you guys do the worst contracts draft you and woes and house where did imbeed land this year do you remember we it was i think paul george won and beat two or it might have been reverse yeah good context and then they beat the celtics next team i know they did next team i have the sacramento kings just for levine's expiring just under the guise of it's the kings who knows what they're capable of but that's like we have joel and bead yeah never rule out you can never rule out stauskas masterpiece stauskas we have we traded up one spot to get dare i say cuff we have joel and bead we're back baby um they'd be their fans should revolt if they do that uh golden state just for jimmy butler so jimmy butler expiring coming off knee surgery golden state with the 11th pick they convinced brown to come they have curry already and dream on and they just they do the expendables thing that i've been joking about i don't think golden state should do that i'm just going to mention it jacoby's making a small smile i'm just thinking can we get mike conley involved somehow al horford all right this last one i kind of talked myself into the brooklyn nets who don't have their first round pick next year just do and beat for two years of claxton and man who make 39 million and 36 million combined the next two years just a straight salary dump throw in a year of clowny to make the contracts work and if you're brooklyn now i have an interesting guy instead of the liberty just blowing away my team every year where there's way more liberty fans sold out crowds and people it's really like barclays is like a liberties arena not a nets arena now i have in bead i still have salary space maybe to go get a free agent or maybe to make a honest trade with all my other picks or trade for whoever and i'm at least more interesting and i just hope he stays healthy jacoby's looks like he smelled a terrible fart no this is the only one that makes sort of any sense and um i just don't really i don't know why philly would be motivated to do this like we're just gonna get off the salary a little bit but like yeah i was smiling a bit because the difference between nets and liberty games is it's absolutely wild it's like difference between it's like your day at like 25 and 55 seriously like it's so much fun it's so funny it's the same arena in the liberty game it's completely different if you're the nets you can't say basketball doesn't work in brooklyn because the liberty it's as good as like half of the nba games it's awesome so would you do that if you're the nets kirk no no gm and my friend sean marks from my time at this first no gm should be trading for joel and beat at this phase of his career with the amount of money that is owed i anticipate if i had to put the over under on number of games joel and beat will suit up for next year i would put it at 43 and a half bill are you taking the over the under well the question is when does he play the 43 and a half because he came back for that celtic series and had three games three good games in them and that was enough to kill the celtic i don't know i if i was a team that had no hope and i had to spend the money anyway they found the nets what else am i gonna do right i have i got a salary i i i'm completely irrelevant and i don't have my pick like i've got to take a swing at something like okay but like i think that's a jaw move you know like if you're trying to sell tickets and just and put some energy inside your building like if you have jama rant or joel and bead which one of you which how about both can i offer you both what could go wrong why not uh next question from danny another one namer simmons did you ever explain why you thought jalen williams played in game two of the lakers series when you didn't please tell me please don't tell me you're cutting corners not watching sports and turning into rick riley what happened riley's shot you want to talk about this you put this you put this in the rundown you copied and pasted it you wanted to address i'm happy to talk about it here's my thing so we're we're taping right after that game two there's two games i'm putting together i want to do because i have letterman on the show after and i'm trying to figure out i'm trying to put together 25 minutes of thoughts as i'm doing it i'm going full speed and then we tape it live right after the game and it's like speed chess and i'm old and i'm going around i'm trying to figure out the minutes and i'm doing everything i'm trying to get to the next thing and i look at the box score and i'm like jay and i just kind of brain farted this is my second brain fart like i'm telling you it's like obviously jacoby you're on some of the text threads with me i'm watching all the games i wish i could bring my wife on to be like hey some people are wondering if you're watching playoff basketball yeah i can tell you they are because i fucking hate you during the first two rounds of the playoffs every year because all you do is watch basketball um the thing is i think i'm allowed four of these a year and then if i get to five maybe it's serious maybe i have to talk to the family yeah well because my other one this year was seattle thinking the seahawks never won the super bowl which i said even though i know not only do i know they won the super bowl but then they the next year they would try to go back to back against the pats i was there for that So I think I'm allowed, cause I'm old now, I'm in my mid fifties. I think I'm going to add one just inexplicable brain fart a quarter, and everyone's just got to deal with it. And if I'm at 10 at the end of the year, let's have a real combo. But I think four is okay, right, Kirk? Yeah, dude, I blame our friend Jalen Rose. I mean, if it weren't for him, then we wouldn't have this crazy situation. And having two guys named Jalen Williams on the same basketball team, like, come on. This is a tricky situation for all of us. It was a double brain fart because I looked at the minutes. I forgot there were two Jalen Williams, and I forgot that the good Jalen Williams was scratched for game two. He was wearing, okay, a couple of things. He was wearing a pink leather jacket. So that was, it doesn't really help your game. You know, it's like, he's in a pink leather jacket, and they cut to him a lot. Like, I'm your friend, and I love you. But, you know, it is, there is one side of the sword. It was an old guy moment, I'll take it. It's like, yeah, it's that. But I literally, you know, I taped last night between 1.30 and 2.30 in the morning after watching five hours of basketball. I'm sure I messed something up. I literally just interrupted you to say that the Knicks are on an eight-game run, and I'm a Knicks fan instead of a seven-game run. I was like, Bill, no, eight. Like, that happened four minutes ago. Like, it's just sort of the way it is. But here, as someone who's been in this industry a long time, Bill, you're handling this wrong. Your talent, this is where you throw your producers under the bus. No, I've never did that. This is my fault. I've been doing this a long time. You're a talent now, Bill. You can't be level-headed. You have to have the big ego. I'll own it. My producers are supposed to correct that. That's why they're there. We should have edited that out. Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. That's the talent play. Now, I'll fuck up. Listen, I'm going to have one a quarter, and that's it. The podcast is free. This is just what we're dealing with now. Bill, as you're constantly there, I have to say this. I think four might be a little low. No, my goal is four. I think you want to set the bar a little bit lower for yourself there, buddy. Let's go 10. Yeah, let's go 10. You're a lot of potty. I think I can pull a four. This is my one for the quarter. Now, I'm not going to have another one a quarter. Josh from D.C. says he's been a big fan of the podcast since the Picture Me Rollin' days. What a classic year that was when Picture Me Rollin' was the theme. Thanks to House's Mother Day Karma, the Wizards are finally interesting, and we have two paths of contention. One is just draft AJ. Two is trade down the spot. Get some stuff for Utah. What would you do as the trading machine? So I already answered this on Sunday. I don't always feel this way with the draft. I feel like sometimes you got to like dig in. I like this guy the most. Kirk, this is such a weird draft. I'm honestly happy with any of these four guys, and I don't know if there's any real way to say one of them is going to be the most awesome. I think AJ is probably the safest. Peterson is the highest ceiling, but I'd also be happy with the other two. And if I could move back one spot and pick up real assets, I would just, in this draft, I would do it. So what would you do? Yeah. Yeah, I'm Peterson curious at the number one spot. I'm also curious. Yeah, I'm Peterson curious. I want to come out and just say that I love Darren Peterson. I think all of the analytics guys in the NBA that I like to represent here from time to time are cam boozer enthusiasts. And so the eye test is Debonza. There's Peterson. But so I think the Belichick move here is to go to three and just say, just take, I'll take whoever's left. Oh, wow. Move down two spots. If I can get something, if who's there, Memphis, sorry, I haven't studied the draft. Memphis is Chicago's four. Yeah. If Memphis would give me anything valuable because they feel strongly or yeah, I don't know if I'd go to four bill, but I do think there is some jockeying potential for people at one and two to think about just a little bit backward, like your buddy Danny Ainge did so famously to get to that Tatum, over full Tara. I think that's a good, that's a good parallel that that was another drafter. I was like, I kind of like all of these guys and they moved back, got an extra pick that ended up not even, it turns out that was a big, big effing deal for the Boston Celtics to do that. So Washington has to be playing with that concept. Jacob's what would you do? Would you just be like, I like this guy, I'm taking him one. Don't don't offer many trades or would you sniff around? I think you can only, as a GM, you're worried about your job and making the wrong move. I think you, you can only make the wrong move by trading up in this draft because all four of them, it feels a little bit like the MVP. Like if you have SGA, you can be a great case. If you have your kids, you can make a great case. If you have Wimby, you can make a great case. Right. So it's like all four of these guys are different players and, but they have sort of like, they're all equal to me as prospects. So if I'm, if I give up assets to move up and end up with the fourth best guy of the four, there's egg on my face. Yeah. Shane wants to know when you brought up, the wizards in the lottery karma draft, Nick Wright immediately brought up Joe house's name. And it made me wonder if Joe house is the most famous wizards fan at this point. Can we get a celebrity wizards fan ranking? And then he asked, this was written last week. Can house represent the wizard, the draft lottery. So I asked the Washington fans. I know here's the, here's the list of famous wizards fans. You tell me where house ranks while a Dave Batista, Wolf Blitzer, and Tiafoe, the tennis player, maybe Scott Van Pelt. I don't know if he's a wizards fan or not. I know he's a Maryland guy. I assume maybe he likes the wizards. Honestly, that was all I could find. So I don't know. It's sharp. Andrew Sharpe's in there. Okay. Yeah. Would you have house fifth or would you bump him above any of those? I mentioned Jacob's. I mean, I'm, I'm biased here, you know, but I will say that wall a was the only one I actively knew was a wizards fan. Everyone else was news to me. And not like Tiafoe's out there, you know, like, like, doing post-match interviews about, about Trey Johnson. Kirk. It feels like house is in the top five. I think he's number one. I'll take a strong stance here. I think Joe house in part because of his platform here with the ringer is clearly the most famous wizards fan. Like when people think wizards fan, they think Joe house. And I think he tried to do the Dougie on the podcast Sunday. He got so excited. The camera burned out. Like he's a real fan. He's had some kids. He's got some camera issues and we'll give him that. But I think that the Wolf Blitzer one screw Wolf Blitzer. That guy doesn't get him off the list. Never seen him with wizards once. No, he doesn't like basketball. I don't want to live in a world where that guy is. Can we split the baby and have a house wallet partnership? I think they would make a good couple duo. Maybe we'll give them a podcast. Zachary Gilbert in Westport, Connecticut writes in he's 12 years old and he says, I'm sending this on my dad's email with his permission. My father is a long time listener of yours. Put me on the podcast, which I love. I always get excited. I'm excited to talk to you. How come whenever you talk about Kevin during the words, you don't mention that he played with the greatest shooter ever in a top five shooter ever that made life so much easier for him, um, went on and on about the rent. So it's interesting. And, uh, Ethan, Ethan Strauss actually wrote about this last week on his sub stack about longevity rot, which, um, there's different versions of this when, just when either somebody stays around too long. And I've talked about this a bunch and I haven't talked about it in my book about, about how the memories of somebody near the end can somehow taint the actual memories of their peak. Um, and then you could, you see it with TV too, with like Barkley being on TV all the time versus Carl Malone, not being on TV and the other stuff that's up with Carl Malone. And now it feels like Barkley's career was more significant than Malone when that wasn't the case when it's happening. I think Katie, the last 10 years really overshadowed how good those last seven. Okay. See years were when from 2010 to 16, he won the MVP runner up three times, five straight first teams made the 12 finals one, 10 playoff series. He's either the second or third best guy that of the 2010s, I'd have them third behind Curry. I think it's LeBron Curry and KD 2015 was hurt. 2013 playoffs. Russ got hurt, hardened trade in 2012 screwed things up for them too. And then the only thing you can really ding them on is the last three games of the 16 playoffs against golden state. Cause they, I thought they had a, a better team that the golden state was dragging a little bit. I thought they could have finished him. Um, she coves, do you feel like all the Durant stuff from the last 10 years is now starting to kind of cloud people's memories of how fucking good Durant was? Yes. I believe it's a little unfair. Like if you look at his former teammate, James Harden, who has famously sort of like underperformed in big spots, there's not a lot of those with Kevin Durant, there's injuries. And like weird Kyrie Irving stuff. And that took down that team and like bad vibes in Phoenix. It's, it just sort of seems like it is his fault, but simultaneously he's still performing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's if his career just ends with the Achilles injury, right? Let's just say it's, it's over. He doesn't come back. We would still talk about him reverentially for what he did for those 13 years, Kirk. So I don't, I do think it, I do think it has clouded how good he was in his peak. Yeah. Let's not forget. He tore his Achilles tendon like that. You just said like, holy crap. Like Dominique was my favorite player growing up. It ended him like he technically still played after that, but it was, it was over. Kevin has done a marvelous job. I think extending his relevance and what is he? 37. Yeah. And he's the best score. In my opinion, the NBA has seen since Michael Jordan, uh, you can tell me it's Kobe. I'm not going to get too mad at you, but it's like, This dude is by far one of the best scorers in the league's history. He's doing it at a high level at 37. That's a Houston team who had a disappointing run in the postseason. The vibes are not immaculate. But let's not forget Freddie Van Fleet was not there. Steven Adams is not there. Durant got hurt. Yeah. I'm sitting here on the 40 acres at the University of Texas. I'm not going to say anything negative about Kevin Durant, but I will say it is better to burn out than it is to fade away. And sometimes that long tail at the end of an artist or an athlete's career can sort of damage how you look back at the prime. Yeah. I would highly encourage, um, who wrote that email? That was young Zachary. I would highly encourage you to go on the YouTubes and go check out some Durant from check out the USA basketball stuff in two that was a 2011 in Turkey. Check out the Rucker Park, check out the 2012 playoffs, him running through them, beating the Clippers. Like Durant was unbelievable. The day you were born, he probably had 40. Right. I mean, he's definitely second or third best part of the nineties. I would put him third, but I also have my head of Harden. Uh, another career thing for me, Andrew B. He said one of the greatest takes in recent BS lore was that Harden was the guard, Carl Malone, just for record. That was Zach Lowe's take, not mine. I was jealous of it. Um, after watching the thunder finish off the Lakers, I watched the SGA very vanilla walk-off interview. And I thought, does anyone actually list SGA as their favorite player? Will he be remembered as guard Tim Duncan, both dominant, but with no fans. I, I thought that was a character assassination. People love Tim Duncan. I love Tim Duncan. I ride for Tim Duncan. It is, it is interesting though. Jacob's like, have you met a diehard SGA guy? Well, if you've met anyone who's like my favorite guy is SGA, I'm wearing the SGA Jersey. This is my dude. Well, okay. I'll answer that question in a second, but first I want to address something like Bill, you're one of the biggest, Tim Duncan fans in the world. Um, uh, Kirk, you are biased by the Spurs. He was boring. Like, you know what I mean? Like, let's just not freeze over this. Like, what do you mean? Tim Duncan was awesome. He was boring. Like he was, his personality didn't exist. And his game was to turn around and like hit off the window. Like he was a dominant basketball player, won a lot of championships, but like, it's not exactly like he was Anthony Edwards in the post-game interviews and whatever. One of the four greatest teammates of all time. They're there. I do not know anyone who's like, I love SGA. I don't see any SGA jerseys anywhere. Like you see the other mega stars in New York city. And I do want to say this though. I am enjoying some of his personality flares outside of his outfits. Like we need that. Like, like I just, I have the answers. I just need to see the test. Like he started to have these sort of like, they kind of feel pre-canned, but some good post-game stuff. That's kind of like this calm, cool that I'm starting to dig. So he's not like personality lists, like your guys' favorite guy, Tim Duncan. You mean pre-canned like Noah Eagle breaking out the Cavalanche. It's a Cavalanche. That was quite a while ago. It was a Cavalanche though, to be fair to Noah. That was a crazy third quarter. Kirk, do you know any diehard SGA fans? No, I think that's the more interesting part of this question. I think the comp to Tim is just wildly unprofessional for a mailbag question. So, uh, SGA, it's really interesting. And this is like Jacoby's wheelhouse and your wheelhouse too. It's like, yeah, his approval rating outside of his home market seems to be the lowest we've seen for a player who is that dominant, uh, since we've been doing this right guys. Like no question. If I'm in New York or if I'm in LA and I start talking about SGA, I kind of know what the person across the table is going to start to say. I think that is sort of the more interesting part here. I like, I think it's actually great for him that he belongs to a Casey and everybody else is kind of poking. Holes and it makes, okay. So you want to love him more and we're probably in an okay spot with it. And now it's time for embracing the era brought to you by new era, the official cap of the NBA, take a trip back through some of the most iconic court defining moments with the new era and a hard work, hardwood classics collection, which is awesome. Let's be honest. It's hard to top those legendary nineties logos. Perfect time. We had figured out that the eighties were a little over the top. We were getting a little more creative in the nineties. You can feel the influences of culture back then. Uh, and speaking of the nineties, so I think the most underrated star of the nineties I'm biased here, but I think it was Reggie Lewis of the Boston Celtics who was really coming on as an asset, who was the only two guard of that generation really to go toe to toe with Jordan when they played. Um, and it was awesome in the, uh, in the 92 playoffs, they lose to the Celtics lose to the calves and seven, but it was a real breakout thing for them. He was just really good. And there were a lot of good players in the early nineties. So, you know, when you look at the all MBAs and stuff, um, really hard, cause you're, you're getting bumped by guys who were hall of famers, but I feel like he was either the second or the, or the third best two guard of that generation. He tragically, he went down the 93 playoffs and, uh, and passed away that summer in the prime of his career. And you look at the guys, the two guards from that era, Mitch Richmond, um, Reggie Miller. Dross and Petrovic who also tragically passed away. Um, Reggie was right up there with all of them. And, and I thought it was just better than Reggie Miller. Um, so I always think about when the nineties, there's a lot of guys that, oh man, Kenny Anderson, Derek Coleman, like you go through and there, there's some guys that never reached their potential. And then Reggie's at a whole other level, but, um, I really think he could have had a fun nineties if it had just kept going with him. Anyway, the Celtics stuff from, from the early nineties, pretty cool to take a, take a step back in time, check out the new era NBA hardwoods collection available in a wide range of silhouettes, including the iconic fitted 59 50 or adjustables like the nine 40 frame and nine 70 and some great hardwood classics apparel as well. Visit new era cap.com/ringer to shop. Now use one time code ringer and you get 20% off your first order. Go check it out. This episode is brought to you by core power protein shakes. How we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes post-workout recovery is a big factor. Core power protein shakes. Hope you keep going after your workout with high quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery. One bottle available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit core power.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by seven up. Okay. This one's a case for conspiracy bill. Let's bring them in. Every notice lemon is everywhere from lemon recipes to lemon. And when it comes to lemon, lime sodas, why is lemon always first? There's a reason a shadowy organization called the a lemonade has been patting the stats, keeping big lemon in the lead for decades. But let me tell you something. The sip is about to be flipped. Seven up is fighting back, swapping lemon lime for their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first seven up, flip the sip Zach from Chicago. He just says, I know you're willing from the Celtics. I'm willing from the Nuggets. What about Jamal Murray for Jalen Brown? Straight up. Kind of interesting. No, you know, you would do that for the Celtics. I'm not doing that from the Celtics. Kirk. I like Jalen's defense. Jamal doesn't have the defense. I don't think they're gonna I don't think they're gonna mess with it. No. What do you think though, Bill? Yeah, what happened to you, Bill? The guy goes on Twitch and all of a sudden he was like your favorite player. of all time, like 10 minutes ago. Now you're like, oh, that Twitch stream makes me want to trade him for Jamal Murray. It's a no. It's a no for me. But I did go down a 10 minute rabbit hole thinking about how we could replace Jalen's minutes with Hugo and Shireman and Walsh. And now we'd have these three guards and Tatum and offensively would be so much more interesting. I did. I did entertain it for a second. That leads us to this was your big assignment. Here's the here's the have these three guards and Tatum and offensively would be so much more interesting. I did, I did entertain it for a second. Um, that leads us to, I, this was your big assignment. Here's the, here's the email go on the record right now, predict four NBA trades, but do it like that. And the four would be separated as boring, but logical, conventional major and somewhat surprising. And Holy shit. I can't believe that guy got traded. And that email is from me. I wrote it. I would never, I would never fake a mailbag email. I could have just said it's from like Larry in Indiana, but I wrote that one. Cause I want to do it. I'll give you the three ones I had. And then I gave you the assignment for the Holy shit trade. So boring, but logical. The Warriors get Anthony Davis, the wizards get Butler's expiring and like a lottery protected first and 27. And we just call it a day. That trade makes a lot of sense to me. Um, if the wizards can get one more asset, they're going to obviously take either to Bancer Peterson. They're not going to be good this year. I don't think they want to see what they have. Could they get one small asset for Davis? He's probably not going to be happy there. And then the golden state, if you can then get LeBron and now I have Davis LeBron dream on Curry and kick tight, the boring, but logical Kirk, would you agree with that? Yeah, that's boring, but a lot. I don't think 80 is very happy there. Uh, and I could, I could see that trying to just get away from it. Uh, and there has been interest right from golden state to sort of reestablish having a traditional big beyond just dream on. Uh, so I could, I could see that one boring, but logical to Cubs. I don't really understand why Washington is doing this. Like we're just taking on Butler and what acid are you getting back? I think if you were I don't want to drill down, but don't you think you'd get a better package for AD than Butler in some sort of pick? Well, he's unhappy and he keeps getting hurt and he's in his 30s now. And he makes a lot of money. So those would be the things you worry about. Alright, conventional. This would be the Giannis trade. I think the lottery, I talked about it on Sunday, Giannis and the Celtics I think became way more realistic after how the lottery played out. So there's a world where you can get Portland gets Jalen Brown. The Celtics get Giannis and they also get Kuzma in their trade exception thing. And then Milwaukee gets Grant's contract, Scoot Henderson, and a slew of firsts, including all their Milwaukee stuff that they could get back. And that ends up being the trade. Seems pretty conventional. Out of those three, Kirk, who is like, I'm out. I don't want to do this. I'm worried about Portland. What do you think about Portland's just general I don't know what they're doing. They're sort of an irrational player in the marketplace, right? What are your thoughts on what they're trying to accomplish? Well, if I could have, if I'm Portland Jacobs and I have Denny and I have Jalen Brown and I have Klingon and I have Kamara and you know, maybe I don't have to give up all the assets I have for Milwaukee. I have Dame coming back. Shaden Sharp coming back. So that that's probably the one if we're talking about three teamers, that's the only way the other, the other way with the honest and Jalen would just be the two of them. Okay. Major and somewhat surprising. This idea came from a listener, Jack in Orlando. I really like this one. I was jealous of it. Orlando gets Jamal Murray and Cam Johnson's expiring. Denver gets Franz and Suggs. It's a straight two for two. Franz and Suggs for Murray and Cam Johnson. It's a pretty good trade for both teams. Yeah, I was like, I like that. I like that, dude. And Cam Johnson. Yeah, put it in. Call silver. Because Jokic could basically be the point guard for Denver anyway and Suggs could be the guard the other team's point guards and bring the ball up. And then Franz with Gordon and Joker. Now my defense is better. And then Franz unleashed without Palo. And then Orlando figures out the guard situation and splits up Franz and Murray. I don't know. I thought that was really, really good. Okay. But let's not breeze past that. That's pretty good. It's a pretty good NBA better. That makes the NBA better right away. Yeah. Yeah. Like somewhere there's like an intern that works in the front office. It's like, hey, do you listen to the BS pod? I was going to do a tweak and be like, well, Orlando's got to throw in Anthony Black or Denver. And I was like, I don't see a tweak. I think that's a really fair two for two. You know, and eventually Orlando has like, there's a defense problem. I'm Franz isn't exactly a lockdown defender, but there's a defense problem in Denver. There's a shooting problem in Orlando. We both want to shake things up. That works. All right. I asked you for a holy shit trade. You go first, Jacoby. What is it? So that the concept is not we'll never have the Luca trade again, but a trade that would make people go, oh my God. So what is it? So I just want to say that this is, I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm not predicting this, but it's like all great things. It starts with Joe house, right? Washington has the number one pick in a great draft. That's a huge asset, but they're open for business. Also our colleague and friend, Rich Paul has been working the phones and he's been pulling some strings behind the scenes on behalf of his clients. Yeah. And Washington has found a dance partner. They send the number one pick and Anthony Davis and next year's number one pick because if you acquire Anthony Davis because of some weird voodoo magic, you also get the next number. Yeah, it follows. Yeah, that's in the trade. Okay. You trade that package. Number one pick and Anthony Davis and the voodoo spell for Cooper flag Kyrie Irving and the number nine pick and here's why it makes sense. There's a new jury did not draft flag. He doesn't see the vision. He's going to have the number one pick. He can start his own guy. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's absolute chaos in the streets of Dallas like rioting. It's got a face paint. He's got a flag. A helicopter has to land on top of the Mavs office for Schmitz and your jury to get in to get them away to safety. Like it's it's Jerry. Jones is involved. It's just chaos. Like the National Guard has to come in and it's just like it Mark and then somehow Mark Cuban just just ends up you know, just negotiating a piece between the fans of the Mavericks and the city. That's a great one. Yeah. I mean them training Cooper flag, I think could lead to a civil war in the United States. It just it would be like the front the Archduke Ferdinand of of America. I don't know how Dallas would start riding God only knows what happens next. Kirk, what do you got? Well, this one hurts and since we're back in time, this is tough, but I'm going to stick my neck out here and be like the Spurs are going to trade deer and Fox and I think they are going to get a another younger wing strong player. I haven't worked out the full details. I didn't do my homework as much as Jacobi did, but what I've seen in these playoffs and in this Minnesota series and again, I might be speaking so stupidly now for for those who have time traveled with me, but I really think what I've seen in these playoffs is like what why do we have deer and Fox on this team? We have Dylan Harper. We have Stefan Castle. We have Victor Wemba Yama. We have a clear need to get stronger on the wings and in our front court. Can we find somebody like Toronto or Houston that can give us some depth and some strength to fight with these types of Minnesota guys. So I haven't done the full homework, but that's my holy shit. The Spurs are going all in with this young core moment. That would be interesting. Tough one for deer and Fox attaches himself to Wemba and it lasts a year and a half. I know it is, but I mean, I also love the your idea. Like the other one I had runner up is the Jalen Williams, the one who's currently hurt with his hamstring and Chet home. We're in one of those guys for the similar reasons. Like a lot of us, these young cores, they have to get a head of the second apron. They have to do stuff like that. So, you know, Jay Donde says real trades travel in silence and we never saw the Luca thing coming. So I think there are the holy shit moments are like, oh my God, I couldn't believe that that could happen. Right. Like Jalen Williams, she's getting traded straight up for the third pick. Like, oh, I told you on that. I told you on the text. Yeah, like that, like that. That's a great one. But I told you on the text, Jacoby is going to have a better one. And I was right. Well, I mean, I forgot the ending. It ended up with Joe house in a bathtub full of Arby's roast beef with Cooper flag picture of Cooper flag. I'm dialing it up a notch from your holy shits. What about aunt to Atlanta? T wolves get Jalen Johnson. They get eight and twenty three and twenty six. They have there's the Atlanta has a Bucks New Orleans worst pick in twenty seven. The worst one of those two. They have some other stuff. First swaps. What if Kirk, have you how long do you think it's going to actually last in Minnesota? Well, this is where's Anthony from? And like, this is where's Anthony from? Jacoby, do you have any ideas on that? Where's it from? Long? Do you know how long people in media have been trying to send basketball players back home? It's always do. It's as well. He's from the Katie's from the DMV. But we always do this. I'm just saying this. Point in time right now is when Atlanta has the best possible. We're going to overwhelm you with an Anthony Edwards offer moment. And and I was trying to think of like every year there's a holy shit one. And usually we have some semblance of it. And then sometimes we don't. And it's like the series ended badly. You know, the new owners in place, who knows? And what if he's just like, send me to Atlanta. And then the other piece of it is in Atlanta. I can't even imagine what that would be like. They've never not since Dominique had a guy in the brief Michael Vick moment, but putting in there would just be one of I love their crowd. Like it would just be crazy. So that I think that's my perfect Atlanta representative, right? Jacoby like that. Because you go to a Hawks game. They are unique. They are fun, but they are sort of flat in a sense like they don't. It feels like he would be the perfect guy to change the vibes in Atlanta. And I know for a fact that that organization for years has circled him like a lot of teams do with certain players that they're suitors for years in advance. Be like, that's a guy. I think he might want to come to live here because he is from there. And I don't know, but I like it and I could see it from Atlanta's perspective. Now, will Tim Connolly agree with me? Probably not. But also, if you're Anthony Edwards, you look at the starting five you're currently playing with in the starting five, you would be playing with Atlanta like dramatic downgrade. Yeah, the only way that trade's happening. is if, if the Android says you're me. Yeah. No, we don't want to. You're actually going to trade me. The other one I was thinking for a holy shit was if San Antonio just said, fuck it. Um, we'll put Dylan Harper on the table. We'll, we'll put every pick we have and just make a run at trying to put Wim, Wimby and Ant on the same team, which would be, I don't know how the alpha piece of that would work. Cause Wimby's definitely an alpha. Um, but that's it from holy shit ones. I went through everybody and it was the only holy shit guy that really jumped out at me. Oh no. There was one, there was one I was building that was, um, a holy shit guy. LeBron convinces the Lakers to trade Luca. That's pretty, it seems like Luca's really embedded in there. Yeah. I had, I had that to Jacoby's, but I had Luca in my notes. Uh, it just feels too much. The other one is like, what if, Denver's like, we're never getting over San Antonio and okay. See, I guess that's the other holy shit Minnesota. Yeah. We couldn't get past Minnesota without Ant in this game six. How so that, that'd be the one where it's like, well, this is the Herschel Walker play for, for the, the future of the Denver nuggets organization. There's one more hole. I went through the ringer 100 and I had my holy, my holy shit glasses on and my little detector. And I was going through each guy. I was like, dude, dude, and the only other one was Tatum because I think that would elicit the proper holy shit where the Celtics are like, you know what? Jalen was right. This actually is this team. We're trading Jason Tatum. We'd be like, holy shit, they're trading Tatum. That's, that's the other, I think Ant and Jason Tatum in that order are the two holy shit guys. Everybody else you could believe like Donovan Mitchell getting traded. I'd believe it. Like, you know, you go on through the league Booker shocking, but not really. I mean, they're bigger names. They're never going to move. Like Luca SGA Wimby flag. Like these guys aren't really going to move, but I could, I could see the Celtics trading one of the Jays and Joker getting traded. The risk would be, he would just be like, all right, I'm going to go raise some horses now in Serbia. I'll see you guys later. And you never even get to play one game with them. Um, that's it for the mailbag. I took you guys up too much, but that was fun. Holy shit stuff. All right. So our holy shit trade rankings, Ant one Tatum two Luca three. No, because Luca already got traded. Luca, I'm not putting Luca on there. He already got traded though. Yeah, he's just never, ever going to happen. He's in Los Angeles. No. I don't know. Got hurt. Um, yeah. All right, Jacob. So we can hear in the mismatch Goldsberry. Thanks for being on two different segments of my pod today. That was great. My pleasure. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kirk and Jacoby. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. I'm going to be back here on Thursday. No game on Thursday night, actually. So, uh, I'm going to be back on Thursday. I'll have some sort of fun podcast for you. And, uh, don't forget new rewatchables. Tropic thunder is up and you have six days to watch Borat just in case we do it on the rewatchables next Monday. So I will see you on Thursday. We'll be right back. See terms at sportsbook.family.com gave him a problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. 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