Weekly Wrap: Below, Carrie, and remembering Sass Jordan

Making new electoral maps is usually a pretty routine process, but not in Alberta. I'm Kathleen Petty, and this week on West of Centre, how a nonpartisan process exploded into political theater with accusations of American-style gerrymandering and threats of a court challenge. What does it all mean for democracy in Alberta and could it set a precedent for the rest of Canada? We'll get into it this week on West of Centre. Find and follow wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. It's nice to have you here, and we're going to get into it in a moment, but first I'm going to admit to you that I get scared easily, like in general, and I especially get scared when there's like a monster lurking below. Like, monster lurking below, that's the thing that scares me the most. So with that said, let's start right here. Right before the accident, you saw something in the water. What was it? Sandra, I'm freaked out now, just reliving that trailer. That was a bit of the trailer for Below on Netflix. It stars Josh Hartnett, and then we've got a whole bunch of Canadians in the cast, including Mackenzie Davis and the great Mary Walsh herself. Sandra, would you please start us off by just telling us a little bit about what this show is about? Absolutely. So Below is, it's a bit of a supernatural thriller drama. I don't think I classify it as a horror because it's a bit of a thriller drama. It's a bit of a supernatural thriller drama. I love the show, and I'm not a horror girly. I'm with you on that one. But it is this sort of more of a sci-fi drama set in a small airport town in Newfoundland and Labrador. And during a come home year, which is basically the big reunion for the whole province, the town is now full of visitors and tourists, and it finds itself being terrorized by a sea monster of sorts. You don't quite know. But the fun thing is that it's also set amidst the more interpersonal threat of the town being resettled and conflicts within the Penny family, which is led by Josh Hartnett and all of his kids, played by Charlie Heaton, Ruby Stokes, Ron Campbell, and then his sister, Willow Keene. And these six episodes really play out around these circumstances, which have really dire effect personally, but also externally within that world. I'm going to return to that in just a moment. But let me go to you, Kaya, and say, you caught Below when it was previewed at TIFF. Last month. What'd you think? I absolutely loved it. And it was a shame because it was the first thing I saw at TIFF. So the rest of the festival, I was like, I just want to watch Below again. I think it's it like does a really good job balancing these horror qualities with these interpersonal family drama moments. And I think it's a really good example of what horror television can be. It doesn't have to be these scary, elongated sequences, like something from like It, Welcome to Derry, which was grating and annoying. It takes its time to build its scares, which I think then adds to this show kind of, like you said, Sandra, like, it's not really a horror, but it is. There's fundamental pieces of this genre, but it's still its own thing. And I think it does a fantastic job at balancing those qualities. Can I tell you, Annie, much, much like Sandra, like I don't identify myself as a horror person. I sat down to watch the show. And then I was like, I'm gonna watch the first couple episodes to get my head around it. And I just looked up and it was four episodes later, because I just was completely pulled into Below. You're also not a big horror fan. How'd you feel about watching Below? And I also don't like open water. So it was like a double barrel. It was so terrifying. But no, kind of like what everyone has said. I loved it. Like I was really it was really, it was very intelligent the way you it starts off as one thing. And as the series unfolds, they add in different things. And I think it's a really good show. It has different layers and different nuances and different sort of, you know, societal sort of commentary. But it's done in such a subtle way that, you know, it feels very natural. It does, you know, my frustration with a lot of these streaming services, and these shows is that, you know, all of a sudden, you'll have a huge curveball. They'll be like, well, wait, where did that come from? And it builds in a very natural sort of nuanced way. Sandra, you're the Newfoundlander among us, which is why I'm gonna ask you, I'll ask you about your own sort of personal reaction in just a moment. But can you just tell me in general, what has the reaction to the show been like? Oh, well, I think it's all anyone's talking about at the moment, at least as far as social media is concerned. But it's, it's funny for me, because I'm watching the show, and I'm basically playing Where's Waldo? I know that person. I know that person. I know that person. They shot part of the show 10 minutes from my house. Many a bribe was proposed and not paid for me to get on set. I'll tell you that much. But I think the reactions of the show and more will start coming in as people get a chance to watch it over the weekend. And it's been largely positive. Lots of watch parties were scheduled around town. And it's Newfoundland on a grand scale, like we've never really seen before since Republic of Doyle aired for the first time. And that was appointment viewing for Newfoundland and Labrador. And I think what's going to be interesting is that Newfoundlanders reactions will always be on the little things like the accents. And my favorite comment I've seen about the show on threads, and I told him I'd be quoting them as basically, amazing show. I loved it. But they messed up making the jigs dinner. So five out of 10. That's where we are. I will say that, like, I think there was a certain there's a certain moment where I can't remember which character said it. But she said ducky. And I was like, I don't buy it. I don't buy that that is like naturally occurring to you. I feel like that is not how someone would say this. Having said that, though, because I don't have the experience of trying to measure how the accent is going all the time. There's been so much conversation about Josh Hartnett's Newfoundland accent. And I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that has been positive or not. What's what's what's your take on that, Sandra? Listen, Allie Kelly is a friend of mine. And she did a great job as a dialect coach. Yes, there are you can definitely see the slips. Yeah, when they slightly fall out of it. I think Josh has a really great job. I'll call it I could call out people who are worse. But I won't. Because I'm not mean. But yeah, yes. But it's so great to have like the Newfoundlander cast element like Willow Keene, who is a Newfoundlander and can lend that off authenticity back into it when you start to sort of come out of it. She brings you right back. So it's nice. There's a nice balance. Kai, I'm gonna ask you in just a moment about the idea of sort of rooting a horror show or a thriller show in sort of in something that is in real life. But maybe I'll put this to Sandra first. Like this is a Canadian show that is a show that is dealing with a lot of realities that folks in this country have experienced. The history of resettlement in Newfoundland Labrador is a particularly painful history. It's a history that gets explored every now and then. I think like the best example that I've seen of this is Michael Cormier's Sweetland, which was also like that novel that ends up being adapted into a movie that came out a couple of years ago. But as you're watching this, like what does rooting the show in the history of resettlement do for it, you think, Sandra? I think the way they've rooted it in this reality of where Newfoundland is as a place and a province and a culture is that it makes it feel like a love letter to Newfoundland. And I can tell that the writers and the directors and the crew really wanted to pour all their appreciation into the production. And I think that's a really good way to put it. I think that's a really good way to put it. And so our province is ripe with storytelling culture and folklore. So a lot of what you see on the show, even something outlandish, like a flamingo on a roof, that's real. That happened here. That's in our, you know, you can look it up in our archives. So, and of course, the resettlement of the town that they're in, which is a real initiative undertook in the 60s, that's carried on right up until 2025 of these small outports being resettled. And, you know, the hag and then it's in, but it's in the smaller things, I think, like the choice of the music and diegetic sound is some of the most accurate stuff I've heard that you hear in the background of every Newfoundland home. And it's the Easter eggs that are the, if you know, you know, and if you don't know, you want to come to Newfoundland to find out. If you know, you know, is actually the thing that makes the show come alive for anybody watching. I think that's like the most exciting kind of reaction. Kyle, I'll go to you on this question. This idea of like, if you're going to people are sort of struggling to navigate, what does that do to a show? Because I feel like that raises the stakes of the thing that you're watching. Yeah, for sure. And I think it makes it like, it makes this show feel so much more poignant than you would think a genre show released in October could be. It really hits those notes and it makes it so pivotal to these characters journey. And then also the way the show is functioning as a horror story. This isn't just about a monster in the sea. It's about how we as human beings have kind of led to our own demise. But within that demise comes the demise of other creatures, the demise of like ecological states. And I think it does a really good job at exploring how rural communities have always been the center of poaching in a way, and how these communities have always has been so desperate to prevent preserve their way of life and how important that is as we kind of grow and as climate change becomes more and more pressing by the day. Anya, I just want to give you the last word here. I want to talk about some of the performances that we've seen because we've seen, you know, like we see Charlie Heaton, of course, from Stranger Things, Josh Hartnett in this, also some big Canadian actors, some performances that maybe stand out for you. You know, I really love Mackenzie Davis. You know, I'm like a sucker for, you know, the like really put together female scientist trope, you know, like, you know, I was always an X-Files fan. So, you know, she's so good. She's so good. She's so good. And, you know, and I thought all of the kids too, you know, Charlie and then everyone else, their interpersonal dynamics felt very real as siblings. And I thought that that was and that's really hard to do, especially as siblings as an adult, you know, because, you know, if you're doing shows and you have. You know, little kids, that's one thing. But the idea of, you know, portraying siblings as adults coming back together in their relationships, that's a much, much more complicated thing. And I think they really nail it. And everything felt very, very real. And I thought, I thought Josh was also, of course, really good. You know, I thought what was good about it is that he really disappeared into the character. You know, you knew it was Josh Hartnett on one level, but then when you're watching, you're like, okay, you know what, he really inhabited the character in a great way. And that's a testament to his skills as an actor. Danny, the thing that you just mentioned is actually a really hard thing to do, especially if you're a person who's as famous as Josh Hartnett. I think, like, some people become so famous that to me, like, when I watch them, I go, I'm having a hard time forgetting that you are a heartthrob who I've known for my entire life on the screen. But with someone like Josh Hartnett, I was watching the show, I'm watching the first few frames, I'm going, I'm having a hard time forgetting that this is Josh Hartnett. And then within a couple of scenes, I'm kind of settled into this character. And as I, as I mentioned, did not mean to watch four episodes in a row. But I just was kind of completely, completely locked in. Sandra, are you going to be hosting any watch parties yourself in Newfoundland? I wish. Yeah, this is, you find me at a very busy time in my life. But I, so I've lost count of how many people I know are on the show and credited. So I'm sure I will be invited to many a Halloween party where that might be a theme, who knows? I was gonna say, like, this dropping just ahead of Halloween, actually kind of a perfect time. I, I'm now, everybody's going to Sandra's house. We're all going to be delighting in Halloween at your house. Yes? Shall we? Shall we? 100%. Fly down. Let's go. Perfect. Let's do it. Mother got Jake's dinner on for everybody. And this one will actually be a 10 out of 10. It's not a five out of 10. Okay. All right. Noted. That's right. I want to move on to the other spooky show that we have this week. There's one thing no one understands about what happened here in Chamberlain. The police don't get it. The press don't get it. The scientists don't get it. And you won't get it either. I used to dream about this, having friends. That is a bit of the trailer from Mike Flanagan's adaptation of Carrie. You might know his name from a bunch of hit TV horror shows like The Haunting of Hill House and Midnight Mass. Annie, I'm going to start with you. You are an enjoyer of Carrie. I don't know why I said that like an accusation, but you're an enjoyer of Carrie, the Stephen King novel. The novel published in 1974. Then the movie comes out in 1976, of course, with C.C. Spacek. For those who maybe don't know the story of Carrie, do you want to remind us what that story is? Absolutely. So Carrie stars a character named Carrie, who is a teenager who has been sheltered her entire life in her house via her mom, who's very abusive. And at a certain point, she is thrust out into the real world. And as you might expect, it is a very rough landing in high school. And so there's a very early scene culminating where she's in the shower and she gets her period for the first time. And basically, her peers attack her. And that basically sets up an entire sort of revenge story that culminates in the prom scene, which is the template for, I think, all future teen movies, where Carrie gets her ultimate revenge after having pig's blood dropped on her. And it ends in conflagrations and death. And it's a very rich, ripe story. I was going to say, like, even if someone has not seen Carrie, they've seen the shot of Carrie covered in blood. Like, that is a shot everybody has seen. This new adaptation, Annie said, in modern-day Maine, does the show work in a smartphone sort of era? So it actually does. And what's very interesting about this, because like with Below, I binge-watched this basically all day yesterday. And they change it up pretty significantly. And I don't want to give any spoilers away. But I think it's a great show. And I think it's a great show. And I think it's a great But as the story kind of goes, and especially the culmination, there's a lot of added things that nods to other Stephen King novels, but also in different things where you're not really sure if Carrie is actually the villain, if she's actually in control of her life. I'll put it that way. But it actually really does, because Carrie's mom, rather than being this very domineering person, is actually sort of a very protective, a little bit right-wing sort of mom. And at the end, like, she's almost more of a sympathetic character, which is hard to imagine if you saw the original. But it's, you know, I need to watch it again, because there's a lot going on. There's a lot of layers to this one. Again, I wish that I had begun watching Carrie's, just that below it pulled me in. And I was like, I'm sat watching the show. I need to make time for Carrie. Kaya, this is another show that you've somehow found yourself watching at TIFF. First of all, I'm jealous of the TIFF that you had, this absolutely legendary run. But second of all, how are you feeling about Carrie? Too jealous, because I did not enjoy this at all. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And going from like this to like going from below to this, I was like, okay, like, festival's over. Like, it's over. I, I like Mike Flanagan. And I think he did a really good job adapting Dr. Sleep, which is another Stephen King novel. This, to me, felt like the perfect example of what retellings and sequels and reboots should not be. It feels like a very bloated and juvenile idea of a original work. And of course, the Brian De Palma film, which is iconic in its own right. And it feels like it fundamentally misunderstands what made Carrie the novel so pressing and then what made the De Palma film equally as poignant. I think it does a good job at representing Gen Z and how, you know, bullying. And can kind of transform itself through the decades. But to me, I just feel like it's missing these pressing ideas of religion and, you know, familial abuse that this show just doesn't seem interested in interrogating. And to me, it felt very disappointing. And I left feeling nothing but contempt for this adaptation. Whoa, feeling nothing but contempt, it's quite vivid. Sandra, what about you? Where do you land on Carrie? So this is not a show I would pick up willingly unless you asked. Like I said, I've never seen the original movie and I've never read the book. So I think that helps me at least be able to enjoy it. I think horror purists will probably hate the show. Because anything that I like when I'm not a fan of horror, I'm not a fan of horror. But I saw what was the comment I saw today? It was like the Matilda-ification of Carrie White. And takes, you know, Derogatory? Okay. Kind of, I guess. Which is like basically taking, you know, the root of her villain era, her villain progression, and reducing it down into a supernatural twist that is born out of, you know, it's born out of historical persecution of women, you know, via the witch trials and viral moments that seemingly have no explanation. I found it compelling for what it is. And it's a pretty easy watch, even though it deals with, you know, it's kind of after school, especially in a way. Because it's not too dark. It's not too gory. It's nothing about a horror movie or a horror film that I would be turned off by. But effectively, if you remove her powers or the supernatural twist to it, it's a psychological drama about society's expectations of women and perception of women and girls. But it takes that deep divide between ideologies that we have now, like the deep divide between conservative and liberal and the extremes on either side, and doesn't really give us any opportunity to bridge that. And I guess there is no bridging of that. It all. Yeah, like they had me in the first four episodes, and I kind of skipped ahead to the end. And I'm just like, it's she's just too pretty. We will never see a plus size Carrie White ever in our lifetime. Like there's just been so many remakes and the fact that we've never gotten back to Stephen King's original description of her and that commentary on the weight issue. Like, they've they've turned her into prom queen covered in blood. And it's it's a stunning visual, but it kind of lands a bit flat, unfortunately, because I like my plan. It's a stunning visual, but it kind of lands a bit flat, unfortunately, because I like my plan. this arc um and and then both at sandra and kai being like we're rooting for mike flanagan to make good work this unfortunately is just not it um annie i saw you sort of agreeing there a moment ago um when when sandra was speaking about the idea like if you're a horror enthusiast then this is going to be like not a thing that does anything for you what was going what was your reaction there that you're having i mean when i was watching it but honestly it reminded me a lot of gossip girl and i love gossip girl but like there were weird parallels between because there's a social media account that's run by someone like the reboot of gossip girl i should say um it was very pretty it felt like very like a high school you know very perfect high school drama i mean it felt like one of those netflix dramas about a perfect high school where there's a you know a horror to it and as the show went on it really did get a little bit more uh you know just completely a little bit ridiculous you know like there's not to spoil anything but there's like a riot scene and it's like very dramatic and it's like would this actually really happen i'm not and so it was very over the top in a way that just felt very like soap opera teen drama but like not in a good enjoyable binge watch way but in a little bit like it's sort of taking away from the narrative you know it was almost trying to do too much honestly at a lot of times like there were so many different threads and plots going on that i feel like it was more streamlined it would have been more effective but anybody who's thought that uh you guys were going a little bit too soft down below that you guys were like actually carrie this is so bad i'm not going to so not it below that's actually where it's actually at okay i think that is a really good place to leave it on spooky season i really appreciate all those thoughts we're going to take a quick break we'll be back in just a moment in a world where the news feels bigger louder and harder to make sense of canadians need more than headlines hi i'm karen seolin news reporter and host of the big story podcast from world shaping events to the everyday stories that spark debate my team and i will explain what matters and why it matters to you we're here to help you make sense of the news and give you the context you need for those kitchen table conversations trusted canadian focused curious listen to the big story wherever you get your podcasts okay we are back kaya chignata is here and annie zaleski is here and sandra mills is here and i want to pivot to talking about this listen to my story listen to me oh i will make you up for it that is make you a believer that is canadian rocker sass jordan she recently died at the age of 65 kai i'm going to start with you on this one you go way back with sass jordan sass jordan's music can you just tell us a little bit more of who she was yeah so sass jordan was an english-born canadian rock singer who burst onto the scene with her 1988 debut album tell somebody i became familiar hearing her songs on the car radio on long drives with my grandma and i specifically remember hearing high road easy from her fantastic 1994 album rats for the first time and being so struck by the rasp and power in her voice it kind of felt like unlike anything i had ever heard at that point in my life it carries so much soul and it's almost like her voice is an instrument in its own right drowning out the actual guitars and drums in her music and i think that she paved the way for a lot of other canadian singers like avril lavigne and fifi dobson who used their voice in very similar ways and were kind of unabashedly like messy punk rocker chicks and she was just so great and it's such a shame about her passing two things occurred to me as you're talking just there uh number one is the kinds of artists that i'm playing in the car as my kid is listening are going to be that's going to be the story that they that my kid just shares about them exactly in that way but also number two i have tried to do the sass jordan rasp while driving and my child has looked at me saying what are you doing please stop trying to do that she's clearly better at this than you are uh annie you you were shocked by sass's passing who was she to you yeah i mean to me she was such a mainstream rock trailblazer you know i mean rock radio in the late 80s and 90s it was so male dominated um you know with hair metal then grunge people like that but she was such a breath of fresh air because of her voice like she really carved out her own niche she was one of the few women breaking through that scene and she wasn't following trends you know she was doing kind of gospel blues hard rock but like you kind of said it was a little bit punky it was definitely she was kind of you know she made space for herself she almost kind of demanded space you know i love that like she duetted with joe cocker on the body guard soundtrack you know joe cocker is known for having one of the greatest voices in rock history and she's like yeah i'm dueting with you i'm one of the biggest soundtracks of all time you know she was just such a figurehead and such an icon in that way uh sandra like a lot of us know her as a singer but also like the way that you know her is as a judge on canadian idol do you want to talk a little bit about like her role in that what was she like as a mentor and as a judge i that was sass jordan was first introduced to me through television and by being on canadian idol it was uh eye-opening for me to see we do have these canadian icons that don't have the get as much appreciation as probably some of the more famous pop people but she so could have easily been reduced to a paula abdul stand-in um because you know she's the lone female judge but she really had a strong voice of honesty on that show and she didn't bloviate in her feedback she wasn't trying to fit into a specific archetype you know crafted by a producer from what i remember but i think it did bring a new generation of people to find appreciation in her work and a legacy that a lot of people maybe aren't as familiar with as far as you know her touring history and especially with her songwriting for herself as well as for other artists annie it's occurring to me that uh like she was so young like 65 years old is so incredibly young so to lose somebody at 65 that's like to me like that's a moment when i'm beginning to get interested in some of the new work some of the new reinventions some artists go through at that stage in life i'm gonna go see like listen to williams on monday for example and like new lucinda is still someone who's being like i'm gonna reintroduce you to me you look like at the stage and she still does that so well and i would have wanted that phase of life for sass jordan so i just want to give you the last word here and just maybe give us some idea of what you think her legacy is going to be i mean i'm the same way i mean you know her legacy is her voice like we kind of said i mean there's a good reason she hung out with van halen in the mid 90s was floated as a replacement for sammy hagar and that she was so generous as a judge you know she sounds so effortless and can sing anything and she was so original too you know it's you know even though people are you know keep falling in her footsteps you know the way she kind of phrased things and the tone and the timber and her voice was so so unique yeah and she did so many things i mean her song ugly with george clinton is ferocious and so she could you know she was so so versatile as well i think that is a perfect place to leave it on sass jordan uh but just before we go i just want to ask each of you if you have any questions or questions for recommendation something that we should be listening to or reading or watching uh sandra why don't i start with you i'm gonna throw out yaga the play by kat sandler in advance of its premiere uh on tv in a couple weeks i was gonna say at the end of the month season yeah yeah i are you do you read a lot of plays sandra yeah i'm a theater person so i do a lot of theater and i read the play because i really want to watch the show and i want a context and i'm reading and i'm like i don't know how they did this so i'm really excited to see where the show takes the base from and and expands on it i have like the really deep interest in in yaga and kat sandler's work and also at the same time this is the first thing that we've seen hudson williamson since heated rivalry so there's a lot of like what's he gonna be like in this there's a lot of anticipation what that's gonna feel like so i'm i'm i'm with you i'm very excited to watch i know all of us say we're all gonna be excited for that uh annie what about you what do you got so i am listening to johnny marr's new record the everything um i think people know him as a guitarist from the smiths but he has had launched this amazing solo career in the last couple decades and his latest solo record is just great like he's just a really kind of solid songwriter and it's just a really um it's just another great record from him and so that's what i'm listening to so you've got a play and then we've got an album and kai should you take us home what do you got it's gonna be tv it is the new snowfall spinoff called the drop that's currently airing um it's super fresh but still manages to tie itself to the fundamentals of the original series and there's some fantastic black talent in it it features a killer 90s soundtrack and it's one of the best and unfortunately underrated shows of the year but i would tune into that if you're interested i'm ready i'm locked in also i just love the variety of recommendations that we have i gotta say thank you to all of you for being on the show today this has been just so so wonderful thanks again for coming on thank you so much yeah of course good to have you here kai is a freelance film critic there in toronto annie zaleski is a music journalist based in cleveland and sandra mills is a pop culture critic in st john's newfoundland my name is alameen abdamahmood this show is called commotion we will see you on monday have a great day for more cbc podcasts go to cbc.ca slash podcasts We'll see you next time.