Weekend at Bernie's in the Senate? Graham & McConnell Prove We Need Term Limits

I'm Josh Muccio, host of The Pitch, where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest. For our sweet season 16, we're giving you more of what you love and less of what you don't. Software is out. Actual cool stuff is in. We've got consumer brands, deep tech that changes the weather. Our big vision is to make it rain and snow on demand. We've got hardware that helps blind people see and dairy. I never imagined my life journey would be milk. Season 16 of The Pitch is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This season is presented by Enjin. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in, an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. 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Paid the price. People lost jobs, rejected by their families, were even arrested, beaten, ostracized, because they wanted to live honestly. And they accepted those risks so that people like Senator Graham wouldn't have to. And to enjoy the protection their courage created, while Senator Graham undermined it, it's a profound failure of gratitude and integrity. It says, I deserve these freedoms, but people like me don't. Welcome to Raging Modernists. I'm Scott Galloway. And I'm Jessica Tarliff. How are you, Jessica? I'm really good. How was your week in the sun of fun? Week in the sun of fun? It was nice. Italy was great. And then immediately went to the Team England game in Miami, which was epic. And now I'm in. My son doesn't want me to tell people what college is at. Anyways, I'm a tidepool of emotions. But most importantly, look at these peepers. Hello, ladies. I can't tell you how excited my son was to have me wear these that I got a registration for orientation around. He's really, really excited that his dad is wearing these. Anyways. I'm sure he loves how much you're leaning in, though, to the school spirit. One day he'll appreciate it. But that won't be for like three decades. 100%. 100%. How are you? What's going on with you? I'm really good. This weekend, we were out on Fire Island. I have never been, but that's not the point. I don't know if you would like it. I think you need like stuff. You know, they have no. They have like one store and everyone cooks, no cars. You know, they're just with each other. And it's very idyllic. Like people are doing. Sounds awful. It's not. I couldn't do it. I'm not. But a weekend, I did it. And I did it. I did it well. Yeah. There you go. All right. Before we get to the meeting, before we get to the show, please make sure to hit subscribe to help our show get more folks. Let's get into it. Americans across the country, as well as members of Congress, are mourning South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham today, who died Saturday night following a brief and sudden illness. He had just celebrated his 71st birthday on Thursday. The unexpected passing leaves a number of questions for the Republican Party. Trump is pushing for Lindsey's sister to fill the seat. Hmm. Jess, what do we know here? This was pretty unexpected. Very unexpected. Very unexpected. I want to. Basically, this whole show is great tinfoil hat opportunity. I hope that you became more conspiratorial while you were on the boat, because I've got a lot between this and Mitch McConnell. But I just want to touch first on his sister. And I didn't know a ton about their backstory. I knew they were really close. Mm-hmm. But they lost both their parents within, I think, 15 months when she was only 13 and he was 22. Mom took care of them. Dad had a heart attack and he was already at college. But he said, I'm going to take care of you. She went and lived with an aunt and uncle and he became her guardian when he joined the Air Force so she could get military benefits. And he said that his greatest success or accomplishment in life was getting her through her teenage years in college. It's a really lovely story out of a tragedy. I think it's weird that she's going to be a senator. Seemingly no political experience. But I think it's weird that she's going to be a senator. But that's the backstory there. This was unbelievably sudden. And I don't know. Do you want to give broad thoughts before I get conspiratorial? Or you want me to, like, dive right into where I'm going? Keep the, throw the, take, yeah, keep with the tinfoil hat. I mean, he is with Zelensky on Friday in a drone factory. And Lindsey Graham, you know, I think that his main legacy is going to be this. This move from Trump critic to bootlicker, basically. But if there's one principle that he never abandoned, it was support for the Western Alliance and for the Ukrainians. And he is an incredible friend to them and used his clout with Trump to push as much as he could on that front. And so the idea that he is, you know, side by side with Zelensky on Friday, a few days before that, the Iranians, you know, they don't like Lindsey Graham. And he's obviously pushing for war there because he's just traditional neocon that way. It makes you think, like, the guy comes home and just, like, goes into cardiac arrest. He's supposed to be on Meet the Press. They have the graphic ready to go. And he spoke to someone, I don't know who it was, and said that he was feeling a bit sick and that he would seek medical attention after he did his hit. So after he did Meet the Press. And I think he, Axios has that he joked, I can't die now. I still need to do the Russia sanctions, get Iran sorted out and do Israeli-Saudi normalization. And then a couple hours later, he's dead. So, you know, I was living in London when the Russians poisoned the former spy Litvinenko. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, at Itsu Sushi, which was this crazy thing that happened. He had turned on them after he had taken out Boris Berezovsky, one of the biggest Russian critics. And was working with UK and Spanish intelligence, I think, at that point, and a big critic of the Russians. And so I'm like, I don't know, this timing's really strange. Should Russia get him somehow? But I don't want to be a lunatic. Do you think I'm a lunatic? Well, I have a conspiracy theory, and that he was 71 and out of shape and had a heart attack. Oh, that's really insane, Scott. You shouldn't go around saying stuff like that. Well, it appears to be fringe in a world of social media with the algorithm. Yeah. It's like novelty, and we've normalized these ridiculous fringe theories because they're more interesting than just the plain fact that he probably had a blockage break off in his artery that caused a heart attack and denied oxygen to his brain because he was out of shape in 71. And I, you know, my sense is that should be the default. I mean, it sounds, I know what happened here. He wasn't poisoned by the fucking Russians or the Iranians. He was a 70-year-old in shitty shape. Like many 71-year-olds do. They have heart attacks and die. But I'm all ears to anyone who has credible evidence. No, I don't have that. I'm curious. Let's go back. What do you know about his sister? I thought it was going to be Nikki Haley. He said on Meet the Press that he had someone in mind. I thought for sure it was going to be Nikki Haley. What do we know about his sister? That was basically it. Like what I just told you, just that they were very close. And before he said, if I were ever to have, a first lady, it would be my sister. We could also talk about what's going on, on gay social media about Lindsey Graham. And there have been a few people who have spoken out or posted their accounts of their relationships with Lindsey Graham. I mean, it was kind of a, I don't even want to say it was an open secret, but obviously, you know, people thought Lindsey Graham was gay. He was bubble wanding around Disney. So that's not a conspiracy theory. I don't think certainly at the same level as the Russians. Nope. So Lady G, there's a lot of fodder for you out there. And the internet had a good day. Let's just say that like the flags at Grindr flying at half mast in honor of Lindsey Graham was funny. But I don't know a ton about the sister beyond the story. So basically what will happen is McMaster will appoint someone. Maybe it will be his sister. I assume Trump saying that means that it will be. And then she'll serve out the, Arrested. of Graham's term, which will run through January. He was running for re-election. I mean, I don't want to say this because I have a lot of friends that, you know, don't want him to win, but I imagine it was going to be just fine. And then the state will have to redo the Republican primary because there'll be a bunch of people that want to jump in. Nancy Mace, whose name was being floated around, and she put up some like very weird Michael Corleone meme, which was totally inappropriate about that. She says that, you know, she doesn't want to be considered for the interim job, but I'm sure a ton of people are going to get in for the main event. There are also some immediate challenges to this for like what happens in the week ahead, like Todd Blanche is going for confirmation to be the attorney general this week. So Graham was Senate judiciary. It's going to be very contentious. I don't think there will be one Democratic vote. Mitch McConnell, is still in rehab now, he says. I want to talk about that, too. But they're down now two votes, right? And it was already a tight majority. So, you know, there are real knock-on effects of this happening for them politically. And also, Lindsey Graham chaired the budget committee, like he got the big, beautiful bill through, and they were going to try for a third reconciliation bill. And that will be a lot harder without Lindsey Graham. So I want to walk through some thoughts on Lindsey or Senator Graham's passing. And I thought a lot about this. I think like you, kind of the initial reaction is shock, right? I don't think anyone saw this coming, much less Senator Graham. The second thing is, I think there's a really healthy response, and that is to see someone in a positive light, to not dance on their grave. You know, he did reach across the aisle. A lot of people talked about, Mayor Pete talked about how important he was in getting, I think it was the infrastructure bill through, that he was seen as someone who was well-liked by his colleagues. Obviously, a lifetime of public service. But I can't help it. I go to a different place. I don't think history is going to be kind to Lindsey Graham. And it's not because he didn't agree with, you know, my political views, holding up Merrick Gartland or ramming through Amy Coney Barrett. He represents a large portion of the country that has more conservative values. He represents a large portion of the country that has more values than I do or many people on this podcast. Where I think his legacy will be tarnished is that I look back, when I was in college, I didn't think I knew a single gay person. And I was there at a weird time through the 80s, where there was a pivotal moment in American history as it relates to the gay community. And that was, finally, people were starving. And I was there at a weird time through the 80s, where there was a pivotal moment in not to get comfortable, but to get less uncomfortable with gay people. And what I found out soon after graduation is I not only knew gay people, but many, if not the majority of my closest friends in the fraternity and other fraternities were gay. And what was sad about it was we were so hostile to gay people. And then the AIDS crisis was such, we treated that community with just such a lack of empathy. And I think that's why I think it's so important that we were so depraved in terms of the shame we made people feel as they were most vulnerable. And I understand why a guy of Senator Graham's generation was closeted. And it's not even an open secret. It was fact that Senator Graham was a gay man. And what I think he will, unfortunately, be remembered for is that his hypocrisy wasn't about being gay. It was that he quietly benefited from the courage of people who risked everything to secure equal rights and then turned around and argued those rights should be denied to others. Where he lived, the circles he ran in, the Republican Party has made huge strides around its, I won't call acceptance of gay people, but its lessening of its intolerance. But every freedom the LGBTQ community enjoys today, it's the freedom of the gay community. And I think that's what I think exists because someone else paid the price. People lost jobs, rejected by their families, were even arrested, beaten, ostracized, and in some cases killed because they wanted to live honestly. And they accepted those risks so that people like Senator Graham wouldn't have to endure that. And to enjoy the protection their courage created, while Senator Graham undermined it, it's not just inconsistent, it's a profound failure of gratitude and integrity. And I think that his legacy and his character will be measured by your willingness to bear the cost of your convictions. And when you ask others to carry that burden while hiding behind the rights they won for you, you've outsourced courage and privatized its benefits. And I think that's what I think exists. And I think history is going to remember the people who stood up when it was dangerous, and not those who waited until it was safe and then tried to pull up the ladder behind him. And I'm very self-conscious and nervous about saying this in the context of a public servant who deserves some recognition, but I don't think history is going to be kind to him, and nor should it. Your thoughts? I think that is a very, very powerful statement and take on this. I'm a little embarrassed that I talked about the Russians poisoning Lindsey Graham because you were much more thoughtful. I think that that will be a piece of this. And frankly, it extends further to who Lindsey Graham became as a politician, right? Like someone who used to stand on principle and then someone who just got along to get along. And so it was a private life decision. And also, a public life one. And so I think that that is the right take. And I think that will be very meaningful as well, especially for people who are part of the gay community thinking, like, you could have helped us out a little bit more, right? You didn't even have to come out necessarily, but you could just have been more kind, right? Or try to push people even behind the scenes to be more generous about folks who aren't like them and don't fit this typical mold. I'm so I think that that that side of the history will be written. But I think for today and what will be in all of these obituaries, they will be talking about this transformation of Lindsey Graham from someone who stood on principle to someone who went along. And I was rewatching his speech on January 6th, where he said, Mr. Vice President to Mike Pence, just hang in there. You're going to do the right thing. It is over. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to do the right thing. are lawfully elected and will become the president and the vice president of the United States on January the 20th. And I mean, there are a bunch of Republicans who knew what was actually going on on January 6th, right, and wanted to do the right thing and have become complete Trump apologists and just kind of stand there silently or even smirk as he says things like I won the vote. So I think that that is going to be what a lot of people hang on to. The bipartisan tributes have been very nice. I just wanted to add and I didn't know this. Monica Lewinsky posted. I've disagreed with many, many of Lindsey Graham's choices and beliefs, but he was also as one of the House managers on the 98 impeachment, the one who worked tirelessly to prove there was a smear campaign against me from inside the White House. R.I.P. And I'm sure we'll learn more of those kind of things. But I think that's a very good take. I didn't expect you to go there. So thoughtful first day back, Scott. There you go. It's the edibles I took last night and like the fact that my my son has gone from my life. But anyways, that's cheery, isn't it? I'm Josh Muccio, host of The Pitch, where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest for our sweet season 16. We're giving you more of what you love and less of what you don't. I definitely start to blank out when we're talking about like middleware AI wrappers. Software is out. We've got consumer brands. We're building eight sleep for daytime hardware that helps blind people see. They kept asking for middle finger. Next thing we knew we had, like 10 students running around flipping each other off. We've got deep tech to change the weather. What if you wanted to not make it rain somewhere else? Like one day we're just like, screw Arizona. And dairy? This season is presented by Engine. So you're not worried about hosting the whole family for the holidays? Why would I be? Wayfair had everything I needed to get the house holiday ready. What if Mike brings his cheerful, dogs my tree has tons of five-star reviews telling me how sturdy it is but what if everyone's plus one brings a plus one we'll see how extendable this extendable table really is and extra chairs are on the way okay what if there's a blizzard and everyone has to sleep over ready to go with extra bedding and towels from guest ready essentials to holiday decor you can trust wayfair delivers hank joined bj's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30 i coach football now coach hank saves up to 25 off grocery store prices 30 pounds of pasta three cases of protein bars 75 sports drinks and that's just pre-game he knows teamwork and bj's knows savings this is your home coach home of the save join for just 20 at bj's.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save there's been a lot of talk in recent weeks about mitch mcconnell's health you and what that could mean for the senate what is the process here to find a replacement and who do you think republican congressional leaders want to take this seat jess so he's not it's different than lindsey graham because he posted a proof of life photo which a lot of people think is ai and you could again the internet is having a good couple of days you know he looks better in the photo than he has basically in a decade and certainly the last couple of years because you know he's had these malfunctions multiple times right on the hill where he just freezes um you know saying this was a bad fall i'm in a rehab center now um elaine chow his wife three days after he you know went to the hospital initially jets off to china like the whole thing stinks and this came right after andy basheer the governor of kentucky was on tv saying rightly calling out the republican legislature for changing the law he was supposed to be able to appoint someone if mcconnell can't serve and mcconnell says in the statement you know i'm not ready just yet to get back to taking votes um that is an empty seat essentially and kentuckians are not getting representation and so i think they're running out that clock until august 3rd whether it's about blocking you know thomas massey or not i think it's really terrible and if you do want to show proof of life in this age isn't it a video at this point like or a phone call to fox or some for 15 seconds well he allegedly talked to burroso thune and scott jennings for 20 minutes and no nothing on lindsey graham who he's been in the senate with for decades had a very close relationship right like you know titans of the south etc like the whole thing is super fucked up and i don't know if it's a good thing but i think it's a good thing i don't know how crazy you want to get judging by how it went with graham you don't want to get that crazy but like if there is some cover-up going on here what is the punishment for something like that right because you are clearly trying to make it so the democratic governor of kentucky can't do what he was supposed to be able to do republican legislator works to get legislature works against it and now this i think it's really really shitty and when you leave people with no information that we've talked about this before like with butler they're going to go insane right looking for an answer and there are reporters on the ground and i would say mainstream media was very late to the story right independent journalists were the ones all over it and the statement says he's in the rehab center but his police detail is still outside of the hospital so like which is it generally speaking you can reverse engineer a lot of the world's problems administrative headache tumult inconsistency chaos to one thing and that is old people won't fucking leave i don't care if it's 70 or 80 something year olds and autocrats and hungary the united states israel senators ruth bader ginsburg senator feinstein we need to get rid of all of this and we need to get rid of all of this we need age limits and term limits this weekend at bernie's bullshit i mean we know what's going on and by the way both sides were guilty of it this reminds me of when all the president biden spokespersons would make a concerted effort to say i was with the president today and he was commanding the room and understood what a six fleet was and it's like yeah bitch how come we never see that on tape how come no one ever sees that i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't when the cameras are rolling and now we have it even worse and that is on i feel stupider without abby phillips on cnn where they basically have a weirdo um say ridiculous things that basically the trump spokesperson say something ridiculous and then a bunch of off off broadway progressives go fucking insane and that's supposed to be you know responsible journalism you had scott jennings say oh i talked to him scott you're lying you're lying i talked to my dad the last year and a year and a half of his life and that is he was sitting there in his bed in hospice he didn't know who i was and i would speak to him so i could tangibly say i had a conversation with my father if mish mcconnell was even conscious right now or had the ability to communicate or wasn't totally incapacitated he would have had a voicemail he could have they could have spent three or four days and hopped him up with all sorts of shit such that if he was incapable to do a 15 second voicemail talking about his friend senator graham it would have gone a long way they can't even manage that which says to me this is weekend at bernie's only bernie seems like i don't know like i'm trying to think of a lebron james right now compared to what is obviously going on with senator mcconnell and this isn't mocking the old it's about american political system that refuses to make room for the next generation and it affects every organization there are too many people on the faculty at nyu that should be put on a fucking ice flow because they're adding no value they're obstructive and they get in the way of young people and young ideas having an opportunity people are living too damn long more power to them and they should go spend time with their grandkids aging comes for all of us i'm an ageist and so is biology and the failure belongs to the people in the institutions that keep insisting that these octogenarians should be making the highest stakes decisions in the world the median american is 38 the median senator is around 65 and leadership in both parties increasingly resemble the board of a company that forgot succession planning is part of the job are the people making the most important decisions around technology and needing to command a sense of the complexities of the world are looking increasingly like a mash-up between the golden girls and the land of the dead enough already every ceo is told that their ultimate responsibility is to leave the company stronger than they found it we fire ceos on succession committees if they don't have in place a succession plan and it used to be at 65 there was mandatory retirement in the uk and martin sorrell got that wave we've somehow decided the goal is to die with your hand on the steering wheel and take other people with you enough already age limits and i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you there's no reason joe biden should have been president that was insane there's no reason president trump should be president that's insane nodding off in meetings experience matters wisdom matters but so does energy cognitive sharpness and also the willingness to pass the goddamn baton something that doesn't get enough grace and dignity is not only knowing when to fight it's knowing when to leave for god's sakes i feel like we don't have an age problem we have an incentive problem and that is the whole system rewards incumbency celebrity and fundraising over renewal or youth or energy and the result is we have an america that often looks like it's being run by people who remember the cold war better than they understand ai so where i am is if you believe in democracy you should believe in turnover that's the whole point we shed our skin the best leaders don't prove their greatness by never leaving they prove it by building a bench and a willingness to play those players even if it means they have to sit down enough already these people are too fucking old age limits your thoughts jess i'm with you and make people miss you that's like the best thing right you leave a party a little bit early you leave the senate a little bit early uh mitt romney um who is turning 80 but looks like 60 yeah yeah uh was being interviewed by mckay coppins and they were talking about you know what would you do it would you run because it should be you know a big primary field on the republican side too and he was like absolutely not your brain shrinks by 20 by the time you're 80 like who wants a president operating at 80 in a best case scenario and that's not even factoring in how hard you've lived right like how many martinis you've had what kind of childhood illnesses i mean i don't want to blame them obviously it's a terrible thing that mitch mcconnell had polio but like Like, you know, people go through all sorts of stuff that make it hard for you to do the most important jobs in the world. And if Mitt Romney, who seems sharp as a tack and looks the part, right, like out of central casting that Mitt Romney would be our, you know, center right savior or whatever for the Republican Party, if he's even like, you're losing your mind. Also, he has a big family. They all have these big families and they post the pictures of your huge tribe. It's like, spend 20 minutes with them. That would be cool. So I'm with you. Just keep and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. Hey, y'all. Kelly Clarkson here with Wayfair. You know, my favorite compliment during the holidays, your house feels so cozy. That's when I know everyone's comfortable enough to kick off their shoes, grab more dessert and stay a little longer. Wayfair makes it easy with everything from dining furniture to festive guest room essentials all in one place. So whether you're hosting for an afternoon or all weekend, everyone feels right at home. Get holiday guests ready at Wayfair.com or on the Wayfair app today. Wayfair, every style, every home. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, autobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor. Right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. We Democrats are also in the midst of our very own Senate crisis. Graham Plattner has now submitted the paperwork to formally withdraw from the race in Maine. The Maine Democratic Party will choose a nominee at a 601-person convention on July 25th, just two days before the state's replacement deadline. Candidates must file by Wednesday, collect 500 signatures from registered Maine Democrats by the 21st, and submit a statement explaining their position. How they'll build the grassroots energy Plattner generated. At least seven candidates have announced their intent to vie for the nomination at the convention itself. Voting happens in rounds until someone secures a majority. As of now, Kalshi had a 66% likelihood that Troy Jackson will be the nominee on July 31st. Jess, are Troy and Senator Graham's sister's friends? Another guy. I know nothing. Tell us about, give us the lowdown on Troy Jackson. Okay, I'm going to do it quickly. But I will. I really want to hear you on Plattner because we've been talking about this a long time and you were like, fuck it. And I went AWOL when shit got real. Yeah. So you were like, actually, I'm going to hop on a yacht and you can sit there and talk about this. Explain this away. But Troy Jackson is actually an interesting figure because he's Bernie Sanders endorsed. Our revolution backed him in the governor's race. He was part of that very crowded primary. But he is also an institutionalist and was the head of the. Senate for 10 years. So maybe it's the right marriage right between someone that has the progressive bona fides. You know, he was a logger. He looks the part for sure. But then also isn't some guy that two liberal morons found and quote unquote vetted and didn't come up with the fact that he has a Nazi tattoo and that he raped someone. So maybe Troy Jackson is. The answer. But how are you feeling about your Plattner hot takes from the last month? So, OK, so we as we always do on the left, enter into the self-flogging and constant hand-wringing over our decisions. And I would argue that the Democratic Party, until we started the self-flogging, has mostly gotten a right so far. When it was discovered he had a Tottenkamp. Tottenkamp. Tottenkamp tattoo. I don't know how you say it. Tottenkopf. Tottenkopf. I wish I didn't know that. But I do because of Graham Plattner. As a Jew, we found that disturbing. Having said that, a guy dodging IEDs in the military, you know, does something stupid with his with his mates. I don't see a pattern of anti-Semitism. So I was willing to overlook it. And I desperately want that seat. When a woman accused him of being physical with her. And it ended. In the midst of a campaign, the accusation was being made by a Republican operative. I was suspect of that accusation. When I heard about this accusation, when I went out last week when I was on vacation and I went to the YouTube to see her testimony. Within about 10 seconds of listening to her, I thought he should resign immediately. She just reeks of credibility. You just listen to her and you're like, this is she's telling the truth. And what happened there was unacceptable. And he should resign immediately. Don't pass go. Don't make excuses. Get out of the fucking race immediately. And while he's trying to hold on and leverage whatever power he aggregated, you know. Fine. Where I think the Democrats get it wrong is then I'll go back again to the show. The algorithm keeps throwing in my feed because it knows it's going to outrage me. Is the I feel stupider with Abby Phillips, where Scott Jennings says. When they're talking about Graham Plattner and they say to him, should Graham Plattner resign? And he says, well, if there's honest accusations that are corroborated. Yeah, someone should resign. All right, bitch. The ultimate corroboration in our society. Where we try to take the very difficult. Situations. And the nuance in the context of these types of situations and all the doubt in incentives and motivations, they create muck and clouds. And confusion around these issues as we decide that the ultimate arbiter and litmus test, the ultimate corroboration is we find 12 individuals and we let the defense and the prosecution have input into those individuals and 12 of them in New York decided that Donald Trump was guilty of sexually assaulting, shoving a woman into a dressing room and either raping her or trying to rape her. Found liable, not convicted. Found liable. So avoid the suing. And yet we have Republicans somehow claiming that if there's actual corroboration here, he should resign immediately, which, by the way, is the right thing. But quite frankly, all of these people should shut the fuck up. They're sitting Congress people on the Republican side who have more credible accusations or you all say equally credible. So the Democrats get it right. In my view, I think they have done the right thing here. What is insane is that they're sitting around focusing their energy on which Democrats saw the red flags before the yellow flags. No, our energy should be around the following. All right. This is disqualifying. We're disqualifying him. Your turn. Your move. Because I find what the Democrats are doing to themselves right now, the self-hate of what we need to talk about, how we got this so wrong. How I mean, when there was a credit, when the red flags and the credible accusation, which this was popped up, he was out. That's what we Democrats do. That is not what the Republicans do. And we're basically saying, OK, let's do a full top autopsy and where we might have gotten it wrong, as opposed to focusing all our energy on what we should be focusing on. And that is we have a cult. On the right, surrounding a man who's been found liable of this. Your thoughts. I'm so with you. I talked about this all over the network last week where I just said we are taking out our own trash. And don't you fucking dare say anything to me about. You know, we're the party of depraved men and that will accept anything because we're so desperate to win seats. We don't have one ounce of what Mitch McConnell has. Yeah, it's coursing through his body if he is still alive and coursing. And so, like, I'm done, you know, like Max Miller, Ken Paxton, Matt Gaetz. I mean, we don't talk about Matt Gaetz and like the underage girls that he's Venmoing. Like, please. But I will say, and I do like to self-flagellate more than you do. So I don't know if it's the estrogen or what. But I have felt disappointed in myself. Mm-hmm. we didn't do this at the right time for electoral reasons, because I too wanted that seat. And I think that Susan Collins is much more vulnerable today than she was in 2020 when Sarah Gideon looked like she had a shot. Speaking of people that should go away and aren't healthy and can't command. Yeah. Yes. And voters are taking stock of all of it. And I actually am optimistic about winning this seat now with whoever is going to be in it, because it's a very blue environment. I think it's like D plus 14 in Maine. But I wish that I had been more forthcoming about what I thought about Graham Plattner and that I hadn't moved to the politics of it as quickly because it was very clear from day three that this guy did not have the character to get one of those jobs. And that isn't because I'm against the idea of someone with a complicated past and undergoing an evolution ending up being the right man or woman for one of 100, right, for something so important to the country and the world. But Graham Plattner was below standard. And we didn't know anything about the supposed vetting. I think Chuck Schumer made mistakes in clearing the field for Janet Mills. Like one of the guys who's jumping in now, this guy who owns a brewery, wanted to run last time around, right, in the Democratic primary and got pushed aside because it was like, we've gotten Janet Mills. And once you didn't get Jared Golden, I get it. It's disappointing. But you still have to field someone that people don't think is going to die in office. And it doesn't say I'm going to release my medical records. But I wish that I had said more and that I had been more visibly uncomfortable with the choice that Maine voters made. Because when you are lucky enough to get to pontificate for a living, and we're so unbelievably lucky, we owe people the totality of what we're feeling. And even if you have to compartmentalize it into this is how Jessica the human feels, but this is how Jessica the political strategist feels, I think that's still a better take or angle to give to people. And I think that I, I got to politics too fast. And I should have dwelled more on how fundamentally uncomfortable I was with this choice. And that it wasn't about me struggling with Graham Platner's politics. Although I'm to the, I'm more center left, and he's far left or whatever. It was really about like, this guy's a liar. And it is not going to stop. Right? This is a, it was a slow moving role. And then it became a fast moving one. But you knew in that New York Times article, which Jenny Rassica, who's accused him of rape now was quoted in where she said he displayed deeply unsettling behavior. It's not that hard then to get to the idea that he raped her, right when she says there was deeply unsettling behavior. And this circumstance of the assault, I think really resonated with people and so quickly, because it feels so familiar. And so many women, or people, in more physically vulnerable positions, know what that's like, right? Like a guy that you used to do it with, comes over and when she said something like, I complied, but I didn't consent. And that's a tale as old as time, right? And that's something you can completely believe. But we knew the guy was bad news. And I wish I had done more. I think that's an entirely fair take that it's clear that usually when there's smoke, there's fire. And there was like, there was a blaze here. And within like, I mean, I did feel that regret. Within about five, I'm like, oh God, I know, another accusation. And I pulled up to YouTube. Within about five seconds, you're like, oh my God, it's all true. Right? You're like, oh no. Oh no, it was all, well, it all of a sudden felt obvious, right? It all of a sudden felt like, well, of course, it just, and also just to acknowledge, you know, there's, Kara Swisher said something that's always stuck with me. And that is, when you've never been a victim, it's hard to understand the dangers presented to victims and victimization. And around these types of issues, I just don't think men have nearly the empathy they need to have, right? I will cite the example when I was, during COVID, when my sister visited me in New York and we were walking down the street and a homeless person, what was it, unhoused now? No, we're back to homeless. Trump won. Moved, kind of like jumped up and she nearly jumped out of her skin. And I said to her, I'm like, that's a bit of an overreaction. And she said, easy for you to say. You're 6'2", 190. I mean, the reality is I have never, I was trying to think about it. I've never felt unsafe. I've never been worried that a woman was going to rape me. I've never been in an environment where I thought someone in an uncontrolled situation, who can overpower me, which I'm sure they could, but I don't feel, Kara said it in the context of big tech executives, who've always had the, you know, most of them grew up in upper middle class or wealthy homes, white, male, just have never had to deal with the bullshit and the fear that so many special interest groups have to deal with every day. You know, Dave Chappelle said something, as he does, crude but insightful. He said, early in his career, he was doing a gig or a show. And for some reason, they gave him cash. He had something like, he had 50 or $60,000 in cash in his backpack. And he was walking through a fairly dangerous neighborhood with 60,000 bucks of cash in his backpack. And he said, for the first time, he felt like what it feels like to be a woman. And that is under threat. Does need to be, there's a long winded way of saying, I empathize with your, I don't know, concerns over what we overlooked here. And I don't think men or people who are, have been fortunate enough to not be in situations where there's so much, quite frankly, victimization or violence against that group. I don't, I think it's, it's, it's a longer road for us. And it needs to be a shorter road for us to get there about how serious, these accusations are. All right, Jess, that's kind of an ugly note, but we're going to, we're going to leave it there. I will see you tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow. Welcome back. I'm Josh Muccio. Software is out. We're building eight sleep for daytime. Hardware that helps blind people see. Next thing we knew we had like 10 students running around. Flipping each other off. And dairy? You're not worried about hosting for the holidays? Oh, Wayfair's got me covered with, Holiday decor, extra dining chairs, and guest bedding. 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